Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        New Message Board Archives >> 2007 General Board Posts >> Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out Here?
        
(Message started by: B14CK5H33P on Aug 27^th, 2007, 3:33pm)

Title: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out Here?
Post by B14CK5H33P on Aug 27^th, 2007, 3:33pm

A year ago I had the privelidge to meet Steve (imnotbub) while he was in St Louis. We went to a game, and was talking about CH.

I asked him, "When you get hit, do you press into your temple with your hand or fingers?"

"Yup."

"Don't do that. The vessels are already expanding and putting pressure on the nerves. To press on those expanded vessels in the temple just ADDS pressure and makes it worse. Move lower either into the neck or jawline and try to slow down bloodflow to the temple and eye area."

I came up with the idea to do educational videos for youtube. This was when the ONLY clips on there were from the movie "pi" and not much explanation. It didn't seem like much of a good idea to anyone here, until Jonny put Chuck's clip on there with an "oops!"

A little over a month ago, I was sitting here at the puter, already chewed my frova tab, but the bastard didn't want to abort. I was able to click on the webcam and video a bit of it. I figured since I came up with the idea, I should 'put up, or shut the fuck up" and posted the vid clip along with a song I wrote about going through chronic CH and the frustration.
I figured that was the least I could do for the CH community.

The FIRST comment on there was an idiot (I suspect I know who the idiot is) saying, "Hmm, you're technique is odd. I've been chronic 30 years and never press into my neck. hmmm." ::)

Tell me, is this anymore absurd than Charlie's "Circulatory technique" in trying to redirect bloodflow? In fact, it was a few years ago when I read about the circulatory technique and tried it without any success, that I started pressing into my jawline, and into my neck where I feel the pulse beating. During an extreme hit, I will put my fingers a bit higher than the ear, press in and drag down, trying to make the blood quit rushing so hard into the vessels. It may help, or it may be a wishful thinking placebo effect, I don't know. I do know that trying to rip my eyeball out, or sink my fingertips into my temple mega hard (as I did for years) does NOT help one iota.

Now, I encourage any of you to allow yourself to be filmed during a cluster, and throw it out there with an explanation to educate people.

And to the idiot, whomever it is... "Lemme see YOUR video and how YOU cope with a CH."

Sincerely,
Carl D

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by Karla on Aug 27^th, 2007, 3:48pm

I apply pressure just below my ear on my neck. My husband showed me this trick and said it is a known pressure point. If you hold on it for too long you will pass out. However, It does help releave some of the pain. I agree also that digging my fingers into my temples and where it hurts on my head doesn't help but it hurts so bad and it gives me something to do. lol. Good post Carl!

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by thomas on Aug 27^th, 2007, 3:57pm

I've tried it a few times, it makes me really light-headed. Then when I release the pressure, the pain ramps right back up to where it was before. Glad it's helping you though bro.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by B14CK5H33P on Aug 27^th, 2007, 3:58pm

on 08/27/07 at 15:48:25, Karla wrote:

Thanks. I may do a short vid sometime explaining this technique, and show where to press and where not to press. Maybe it'll help someone else.
Right now, I am swamped between helping my brother move, doing 2 shows a week now, recording my next demo, and doing remixes for Nine Inch Nails. I got ahold of the raw tracks to the new album, and have done several NIN remixes already.

Ever get tennis elbow from holding your head? :P

Peace,
Carl

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 27^th, 2007, 4:03pm

Keep in mind that, just like medications, not everything works for everybody.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by B14CK5H33P on Aug 27^th, 2007, 4:15pm

on 08/27/07 at 15:57:31, thomas wrote:

I've tried it a few times, it makes me really light-headed. Then when I release the pressure, the pain ramps right back up to where it was before. Glad it's helping you though bro.

It's kind of a touch sensitive thing but yes, I get light-headed doing it. Once it's starts to ramp again, I press again, or not as hard. I've also got the 'hunchback' pressure technique where I lean my head into my shoulder, and it hits under the jawline just right. I do that if it lasts way too long and my arm gets worn out and needs a rest for a minute.

On a high note, I am getting hit fewer and further between, so HOPING I may go back out of cycle. It'd be nice. I recently went through a mega hardcore fit with insomnia worse than 2005, which is one reason I haven't been posting here much. Not everyone here understands sleep deprivation but to those who suffer massive insomnia I learned something a couple of months ago I never knew:

When the body has been awake for a day or more, it goes into 'survival mode' and starts releasing large amounts of adrenaline. That is why I get wasted out tired, but am wide awake when I hit the sheets. It got so bad this year I recently went through a 16 day period with only a total of 15 hours sleep for the period.
One of my neighbors here said everyday when I'd bring the dog out I looked worse and worse to the point that, near the end of that trauma fest, I'd walk up, start talking, and lose myself mid sentence.

In a private group on myspace I had been posting about the insomnia wearing me down, and one of my friends on there in california has suffered with chronic insomnia for years. This is where I learned about the adrenaline, and when I talked to my doc about it and told him the fix, he didn't hesitate to prescribe Seroquel.
This drug is a bi-polar treatment in small doses, but is used only for extreme sleep problems at high doses. It worked like a charm for a month and stopped this week, but got sleep the past 2 nights. The Seroquel helps prevent the adrenaline rushes that add to the insomnia problem. That is why in a sleep dep spurt I go into a 'manic' phase.

What is messing with me now is... I am not used to so few hours of being awake, and while it 'feels' like saturday it is monday... I've just had sleep in that timeframe. I'll take the time distortions anyday over the 2 hours sleep in 5 days, with micromini midgets doing acrobatics on tabletops and yelling obscenities dancing around mice on my desk. ;;D

Peace,
Carl

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by B14CK5H33P on Aug 27^th, 2007, 4:17pm

on 08/27/07 at 16:03:07, Brewcrew wrote:

Keep in mind that, just like medications, not everything works for everybody.

Eggxactly. Just like I could never 'envision' the bloodflow and redirect it with Charlie's method. I think it did work for some.

Peace,
Carl

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by john_d on Aug 27^th, 2007, 4:18pm

Charlies circulatory technique does not involve restricting blood flow with your fingers but rather only involves concentration techniques. I would think twice before giving medical advice like that without an MD and a whole lot of disclaimers, IMHO.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by B14CK5H33P on Aug 27^th, 2007, 4:23pm

I'm not saying 'dig into your neck with all of your might' but enough to relieve pressure. My doc knows I do this and never said, 'don't.'
And again, it may not work for everyone, but it CAN'T be any worse than digging into the temple where it feels like an anyuerism ready to blow.

Peace,
Carl

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by sldrswyfe on Aug 27^th, 2007, 5:19pm

Charlie's tecnique absolutely does works for me anyway.

You may not be able to visualize it...or think it's a really complicated procedure of taking over your body's autonomic system...really it's not.

The brain is very powerful...as you stated, you're not sure if your technique really works or if it's just a placebo type effect...who cares? As long as you feel better from it.

In a sense, you are actually praticing a mental technique...it takes a little calming yourself, focusing, etc..

The bottom line, if this is working for you...that's awesome...and keep doing it. Don't worry about who says this about it or that...you are alone with the demon when he comes to visit, you go into the ring alone..no matter who's next to you, whether they have CH'S or don't...so fight your fight...and I pray you found what works for you...that's all that really matters.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by chewy on Aug 27^th, 2007, 5:52pm

I've been applying pressure for years. Various points on the scalp, base of the skull, and on the neck. Relieves the pain for a few seconds and then I have to move to a new spot.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by john_d on Aug 27^th, 2007, 6:22pm

Blocked from watching the video at work but just saw it, it's a good honest video about getting hit Carl, I figured it was some kind of instructional video. Not sure why you got wrapped around the axle with that one comment, looks like alot of other good ones. Good work.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by UN solved on Aug 27^th, 2007, 6:35pm

on 08/27/07 at 17:52:57, chewy wrote:

I've been applying pressure for years. Various points on the scalp, base of the skull, and on the neck. Relieves the pain for a few seconds and then I have to move to a new spot.

I apply pressure that may help for a split second, then it's on with the attack ! It mainly helps when I apply pressure to the business end of an Imitrex jab !

Glad you "Figured it out !" >> LOL ... keep up the good work Carl !

UNsolved ;;D

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by Rosybabe on Aug 27^th, 2007, 6:47pm

I know what insomia feels like carl, you are in auto pilot most of the time...thanks God I am out of cyle now and my sleep patterns are just about back to normal...

when I go back to cycle I might give your technique a try...who knows it could work for me too..but my BP is very low , I wonder if it would make me pass out....

I hope your cycle comes to and end very soon and you get the sleep you desperately need.

Rosy.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by 1stdonna on Aug 27^th, 2007, 7:27pm

Being a cardiac monitor tech, bells and whistles went off when I saw this suggestion. Read below please....especially the last paragraph

Vagal maneuvers for a fast heart rate.

Vagal maneuvers are used to try to slow an episode of fast heart rate. These simple maneuvers stimulate the vagus nerve, sometimes resulting in slowed conduction of electrical impulses through the atrioventricular (AV) node of the heart. Be sure to talk to your health professional before trying these.

Vagal maneuvers that you can try to slow your fast heart rate include:

Gagging.
Holding your breath and bearing down (Valsalva maneuver).
Immersing your face in ice-cold water (diving reflex).
Coughing.
Putting pressure on your eyelids.
It is important to have your health professional show you how to do these procedures correctly.

In addition to these, your health professional may sometimes try another vagal maneuver (called carotid sinus massage) in the emergency room to help slow your heart rate. This technique should only be performed by a health professional.

Copied from http://www.uhseast.com/138315.cfm

Even RN's aren't permitted to do this without an MD present.

It can cause an unwanted heart rhythm or worse.....no rhythm.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by kimmiedawn81 on Aug 27^th, 2007, 7:35pm

on 08/27/07 at 17:52:57, chewy wrote:

I've been applying pressure for years. Various points on the scalp, base of the skull, and on the neck. Relieves the pain for a few seconds and then I have to move to a new spot.

Ditto here!

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by 1stdonna on Aug 27^th, 2007, 11:40pm

Bump. Lotus...where are you?

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by Charlie on Aug 28^th, 2007, 1:35am

Good to hear Sherri and it's you that finally came up with what I've been trying to impart: Try to feel your pulse in your hand, fingers, etc. One side works for me.

Good luck kids.

Charlie

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by sandie99 on Aug 28^th, 2007, 2:45am

When something works for you - USE IT! :)

I have even included meditation and visualization part of my treatment and they help me; both have give me lots of more strength to deal with this all.

Sanna

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by 1stdonna on Aug 28^th, 2007, 8:00am

Did you guys just skip over my post about the "carotid massage" maneuver?

It's dangerous! Apply pressure somewhere else. Look it up on the internet......ask your doctor.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by sldrswyfe on Aug 28^th, 2007, 12:04pm

No Donna, I didn't. In fact, I wanted to thank you. I enjoy reading things like that, and never knew about vagal maneuvers...

The information you shared, also enlightened me to other things...like sometimes if I vomit or wretch during a CH...it lessens the intensity a bit...then I saw that "gagging" is a maneuver.

You also made me very aware of how serious this is...and I cannot lie, I've done "maneuvers" unconsciously...as I don't know who on the face of the earth would not during a CH...the "head grabbing" pushing, and the tendency to push our heads forward "against" the pain.. all are natural responses to this pain.

I thank you for the very valuable information and the warning that I will heed. I have also held my breath, (while in sheer agony)squeezing my head on both sides..and that does relieve some intensity too! I had no idea this was dangerous!!! :-[ :-[ :-[

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by purpleydog on Aug 28^th, 2007, 1:09pm

Interesting Donna, because when I'm really getting slammed hard, I will press the palm of my hand into the affected eye as hard as I can. This eases the pain while I'm pressing on it. I never noticed if my heart rate is elevated or not, I just want the pain to stop. As soon as I let go, it's still there.

Carl, NIN remixes? Can I ummmm, hear it? ;;D

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by 1stdonna on Aug 28^th, 2007, 4:28pm

Thanks for the replies.

The danger lies in the nerve behind the carotid artery being massaged or squeezed or compressed.......not anywhere else that I've heard of.

Pressing your eye or squeezing your temples, etc. are NOT included in this warning.

Best bet is to talk to your doctor.

Title: Re: Am I REALLY The ONLY ONE To Figure This Out He
Post by Callico on Aug 28^th, 2007, 6:49pm

When I first found this the old site about 6 (?) yrs ago before I joined someone posted about apklying pressure to the carotid artery for short periords of time on the affected side. I used to do this for about a minute at a time, and would get some relief. The biggerst thing I noticed with it was that the eye would quit drooping and my face would quit sagging until I let go. It would drop the pain a point or two while I was blocking off the blood flow, and return when I let go, but it did give me a minute of relief so that I could continue the struggle. Continuous use of the technique can cause oxygen deprivation of the brain though, and act as a mini stroke if held to long or to often. There were many nights though that it bought some much needed if brief relief until I learned better ways of dealing with it when I came back to the new site.

I never was able to concentrate enough to get Charlie's system to work, (or Dr Wright's, but he isn't the one who told me about it ;;D), but I have used some of the principles that I learned from the LaMaze method of childbirth. I don't use the breathing techniques, but some of the focusing , etc.

Good post Carl. Glad to see you posting again. Missed you.

Jerry