Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        New Message Board Archives >> 2007 General Board Posts >> Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
        
(Message started by: UN solved on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:23pm)
Title: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by UN solved on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:23pm
I have a son that's 14 yo. He has a sister that's now 18 yo. Although his sister is not really my daughter, I've been there since she was 3 and she calls me dad. She's my daughter !! She's just gotten married this year and is now 8 months pregnant. Her husband held her down on the floor and hit her in the face and head. She's got a black eye and knots on her head. She wouldn't call the cops on him. I told her I was going to call them and she said it would make things worse on her.

What should be my role in this situation ?? Should I do what I want to do and pound him into the ground ?? Should I call the cops ? What if she goes back to him (like I think she's going to do) ??  

THIS IS BULL$HIT !!  I don't think I'll be able to keep my cool if/when I see him ! He's going to get it !!

What say you ??

UNsolved
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:27pm
OMG!  I want to kill him on your behalf.

How many times has he hit her before.   Some women do an amazing job of denial.

If he's hit her once - he'll do it again and it's going to be so hard to convince her to get out of there but she needs to do just that for her safety and the safety of her baby.  It won't be harder on her if you call the cops - not if you can convince her to get the hell out of there.

What a bastard!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Sean_C on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:28pm
I'm going to give you my example if the roles were reversed here and it was my daughter.

Its simple, I would fuck him up so bad, he'd be prayin the cops show up.

Then she'd be comin home with me, period.

But thats just me.

Sean.......................
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by rolo65 on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:32pm
Rent her a copy of the burning bed (Fara Faucet) and make her watch it!

Rolo.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:34pm
If she dont want you to call the cops means she will never say a bad word about him even if they do show up.

Shes setting hrself up for an abusive life by doing this.

Baseball bat to the dudes skull, "Just make sure he knows its you and get your message straight"

Ive been through this, the dude was gone a day later!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Yorky on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:34pm
<<<<some sharp vibes heading his way>>>>

may every one of them hit the jerk.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:40pm
Jesus, Bro.  Makes my blood boil.

Like they say, he probably did not hit her to hurt her, he hit her to scare her.  
Put him in the exact same position he put your daughter in - hold him down on the floor.  Make sure he gets a real close look at the tip of a soldering iron.  I would make him feel double the fright that your daughter felt.  Make him piss himself, and pray to god for his life.

Course, that's just what I would do.  I am sure other ideas will be forthcoming shortly.

B$

PS - make sure you have 2 'witnesses' to cover your story if he does call the cops.  Beer buddies should do just fine.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by nani on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:40pm
As a parent, I certainly understand all the sentiments here. I'm proud of you guys for being such good fathers. But, the fact is, this is much more complicated than we see it.

Michael, call your local domestic violence center, and get some advice from the pros. Having some objective help can help all of you get through this.
I'm sorry this is happening, hon.
BIG hugs, nani
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:45pm

on 08/10/07 at 20:40:58, nani wrote:
As a parent, I certainly understand all the sentiments here. I'm proud of you guys for being such good fathers. But, the fact is, this is much more complicated than we see it.


As much as I love you, Doll, I gotta disagree with you.

It's not complex, it's black & white.  The dude needs to be taught a lesson.  Whether it is a beating or the filing of some paperwork, now is a good time for him to learn this lesson.  
If he learns it now, he won't have to learn it later, cause later it's gonna be more difficult.


Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by phil_h on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:47pm
report the domestic violence by father against 8 month pregnant wife...., to DYFS , they will protect the unborn child and mother...........or call the police  he's assaulting 2 lives.......... or take him fishing !!!!   really , the police must also act to protect the child  ....i"d go over and wait for him to be removed...making sure he knows you reported him...this may also open the door for a private discussion in the future , where you might clarify your thoughts on abuse....a man that would assault his 8 month pregnant wife , is capable much worse...maybe he can get help....i haven't seen such cures...your daughter should get a restaining order and protect her child and the child's mommy....that's the responsible thing for a parent to do.....sorry for everybody's pain and fear...action needs to be taken..... phil h
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:48pm

on 08/10/07 at 20:45:31, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
The dude needs to be taught a lesson.


Agreed (did hell freeze over?) ;;D
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by nani on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:49pm
So, it's OK if violence begets violence?

Don't get me wrong, I want to kick his sorry ass, too.
But, if Mike does that, what if his daughter rejects him and just gets herself more isolated and at this losers mercy? I've known women who get themselves into that situation. At the very least, she's just not going to let anyone see her when she's beat up, to avoid more trouble.

It's complicated. Really.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by rolo65 on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:51pm
The key is to make her change so she can see what's down the road, and then go to the bar where he hangs out and take him outside and give him a kip 100 he'll never forget!

Rolo. >:(
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 10th, 2007, 8:54pm

on 08/10/07 at 20:49:55, nani wrote:
At the very least, she's just not going to let anyone see her when she's beat up, to avoid more trouble..


Then why let her get beat up?  ::)

Take the fuck out, Mike!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:00pm

on 08/10/07 at 20:49:55, nani wrote:
So, it's OK if violence begets violence?

Don't get me wrong, I want to kick his sorry ass, too.
But, if Mike does that, what if his daughter rejects him and just gets herself more isolated and at this losers mercy? I've known women who get themselves into that situation. At the very least, she's just not going to let anyone see her when she's beat up, to avoid more trouble.

It's complicated. Really.


I am not necessarily saying Mike needs to get violent, or cause intentional harm.  
If, however, Mike were to hold him down, and have a little chat with him, and then tie his ass up and kick his ass down the basement stairs and lock him down there for a night, then, the next day, take his hunting knives down to the basement and sharpen them while debriefing the fuck on what lesson he learned......THAT would probably do the trick.  
Who said anything about getting violent?
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by phil_h on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:01pm
if you told me this in my office , i would be ethically and legally obligated to report this to dyfs and the police ..there is a good reason for this...phil h
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Maffumatt on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:01pm
A real man would never hit a woman much less a pregnant woman. Sometimes its best not to get involved but I don't think this is one of them. I'd pay the guy a visit, some things are worth going to jail for.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by rolo65 on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:03pm

on 08/10/07 at 21:00:36, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
I am not necessarily saying Mike needs to get violent, or cause intentional harm.  
If, however, Mike were to hold him down, and have a little chat with him, and then tie his ass up and kick his ass down the basement stairs and lock him down there for a night, then, the next day, take his hunting knives down to the basement and sharpen them while debriefing the fuck on what lesson he learned......THAT would probably do the trick.  
Who said anything about getting violent?


I like the way you think ;;D A little panic room action!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by john_d on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:04pm
Call the cops, cause you so much as lay a finger on him, you will end up in jail.  If he so much as laid a finger on her, he will.  

You only have one legal option, call the cops, and if it was me, I would execute it with extreme prejudice.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by phil_h on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:04pm
don't face the ,"if only i called " , that kind of guilt makes for some complicated bereavement
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by purpleydog on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:07pm

on 08/10/07 at 20:40:58, nani wrote:
As a parent, I certainly understand all the sentiments here. I'm proud of you guys for being such good fathers. But, the fact is, this is much more complicated than we see it.

Michael, call your local domestic violence center, and get some advice from the pros. Having some objective help can help all of you get through this.
I'm sorry this is happening, hon.
BIG hugs, nani


Nani is right, this is much more complicated than it looks. The men want to kick his ass into the next lifetime, and I personally agree. However, Michael, this is probably not the first time it's happened, and frustrating as it is (I've been there, on your side of the fence), you have got to make sure your daughter knows and understands you are there for her NO MATTER WHAT. Since she is 8 months pregnant, she probably feels trapped, and feels like she can't get out, and that may be true. How will she support herself?

When she says that things will be worse if you call the cops, that may very well be true. He will take his anger about the police being involved, out on her, and that can be bad in her situation.


Quote:
The key is to make her change...


Rolo, you can't MAKE anyone change, sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

Mike, do what nani said, contact the local domestic abuse people, and talk to them. Leaving this worthless piece of shit has to be your daughter's decision. She is still young enough not to believe her life has to be lived this way. Also, what about the baby? Are you willing to support her if she leaves this jerk? That would be an important thing for her to know at this stage.

Also, a well placed baseball bat to the kneecaps should have him thinking about it. But if she leaves him, be glad of that and move on.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:08pm

on 08/10/07 at 21:04:25, john_d wrote:
you so much as lay a finger on him, you will end up in jail.  If he so much as laid a finger on her, he will.  


That's what we are trying to avoid (it sounds like)

Thats why ya gotta make sure you have 'witnessess'.  Mike was out bowling, all his friends vouch for it.  I even saw him at the bowling alley.

 
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by rolo65 on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:10pm

on 08/10/07 at 21:07:00, purpleydog wrote:
Rolo, you can't MAKE anyone change, sorry, it just doesn't work that way.


Education changes everone willing to learn! :-/
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by john_d on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:11pm
dude, unless you are in the mob, that ain't gonna work-  chances are your friends are like mine, a bunch of clumsey white dudes who couldn't get away with a speeding ticket.   ;;D  nice thought though


on 08/10/07 at 21:08:46, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
That's what we are trying to avoid (it sounds like)

Thats why ya gotta make sure you have 'witnessess'.  Mike was out bowling, all his friends vouch for it.  I even saw him at the bowling alley.

 
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:12pm

on 08/10/07 at 21:07:00, purpleydog wrote:
She is still young enough not to believe her life has to be lived this way.



on 08/10/07 at 20:23:04, UN solved wrote:
Her husband held her down on the floor and hit her in the face and head. She's got a black eye and knots on her head. She wouldn't call the cops on him.


Seems to me theres a conflict with that!

Batter up!!!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:21pm

on 08/10/07 at 21:11:32, john_d wrote:
dude, unless you are in the mob, that ain't gonna work-  chances are your friends are like mine, a bunch of clumsey white dudes who couldn't get away with a speeding ticket.   ;;D  nice thought though


Get better friends.  Be smart about it.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Charlie on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:26pm
You have to get her out of there. Nothing good will come her remaining. It's like child abusers; hopeless so end it now.

Holding his balls in a vise while explaining this would be fun too.

Charlie
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Ree on Aug 10th, 2007, 9:32pm
Do not get violent with him especially after you disgussed it here LOL... you guys are sure funny...
I know how hard it is for a dad to see his daughter beat up.  I went through this with my x and believe me my dad wanted to beat him to death.
I know how she feels she just wants him to love her.  Thats why she stays.  You have to talk her out of the house and if he wants things to work he has to get help.  She is seeing this awful no way out situation right now.  Her idea of that perfect little home bubble has just burst.  You need to think about her, and her baby.  She needs to know that once that first punch goes out there will be more to follow.  I was so stupid I went back 3 times.  Though I have forgiven Mike for the physical and mental pain he put me through.  I do not forget the anguish I felt.  The wanting for my boys to have their dad and to some how make him love me... its really sad.  I do know how she feels.  Take him for a walk and let him know that you won't back off till  he gets help and if he gets violent get her out of there.  It was the best decision for me and my kids. I have never been sorry.
good luck  Ree
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by E-Double on Aug 11th, 2007, 12:43am

on 08/10/07 at 20:28:44, Sean_C wrote:
I'm going to give you my example if the roles were reversed here and it was my daughter.

Its simple, I would fuck him up so bad, he'd be prayin the cops show up.

Then she'd be comin home with me, period.

But thats just me.

Sean.......................


Brother,
This not only brought my blood to a boil but made me cry. I thought of my lil girl and just lost it.

I would put the living fear of god in him and he would not be walking for a very long time. Whe he recovered it would be with a permanent limp. He would also lose use of his hands. The hands that he layed on my daughter.

Your role is to ensure her safety.
That is daddy's role especially when her husband who is supposed to be doing so is actually making her unsafe

Do what ya have to do!

E
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by rolo65 on Aug 11th, 2007, 12:57am
That little puke needs a good old GI blanket party after punching on your girl even if it isn’t PC enough for the rest of the crowd. Rolo.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by rolo65 on Aug 11th, 2007, 2:38am

on 08/10/07 at 21:26:18, Charlie wrote:
You have to get her out of there. Nothing good will come her remaining. It's like child abusers; hopeless so end it now.

Holding his balls in a vise while explaining this would be fun too.

Charlie


He will probably be a child abuser when the situation arrives so the last thing that kid needs is that kind of atmosphere to grow up in. I know from personal experience with my A$$hole alcoholic jerk of a father! Who by the way beat his second wife all the time, and me also!

I'll bet he's mean to animals too.

Best vibes for a good gentle outcome if that is possible because no one wants to see another Lacy Peterson story on the news!

Roland :(
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by LeLimey on Aug 11th, 2007, 5:52am
Oh bloody hell - what a mess.

All I can say is you can't make her decisions for her. My ex (the one who now lives in Ohio) beat the living shit out of me while I was pregnant with Barney. So much so that I had an abruption. I haemorraged badly and it was touch and go for both Barney and I. When he was born he couldn't feed properly, his stomach hadn't developed enough to digest ormal milk so he hadto have this special stuff through an NG tube.

Did I leave him then? No.

He then beat the living spit out of me daily for the next 16 months and not once did I leave him or tell anyone. Not until the day he mistreated Barney. He hung him by the dungarees on a door knob because Barney was "being naughty". Every time I tried to rescue him he knocked me to the floor. As soon as he went to work I arranged somewhere else for us to live from the following day, hid a few bits of clothes I hoped he wouldn't notice in garbage sacks and hid them outside.

As soon as he got home from work (he worked nights at the time) I took the kids "grocery shopping" so he could sleep and ran with not much more than we stood up in.

I wasn't eighteen - I was 30 years old. As hard as it is you can't make choices for her, she'll go back until she is ready to face the light and its scary. He'll have already done a huge number on her self confidence and she probably doesn't believe she deserves any better.

I can guarantee she thinks its her fault, in fact in her mind she KNOWS its her fault and she is ashamed of making him feel like that. THAT'S what you need to work on as much as anything Michael but a quick putting the fear of God in him lesson and reminding him you and your friends will be watching ought to keep her safe for a while at least.

If there is anything I can do to help please say. Domestic Abuse is one of my missions in life now and I'll do anything to help victims of the same shit I went through. Sometimes just hearing other peoples stories can help more than you'd think

I'll be thinking of you, we need updates on this one hon

lots of love
Helen xxx
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by BarbaraD on Aug 11th, 2007, 7:40am
Is she with you now?  If she is why not call Helen or Ree and let her talk to them - they've been there and maybe can let her know she's not ALONE (sounds familiar).

Right now, she needs to protect her baby and that jerk doesn't seem to be worried about the little thing.

I agree about working on her self confidence. Every case of spousal abuse I've seen, the spouse is lead to believe it's her fault and that's B$, but it happens.

Personally, I'd like to kick his a$$ into next week, but if she won't press charges it won't do much good to get the police involved and she's right - it could make it worse on her.

After the baby is born, keep an eye out and if this continues (and it will) you can call Child Protective Services.

Hope it works out.

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Rosybabe on Aug 11th, 2007, 9:26am
My advise, take her to a Domestic abuse Help center. Professionals can talk to her into pressing charges. They will also tell her that if He hits her now when She is pregnant , He will beat her child also and if that happens She could be charge for letting him do it and she will loose her child or go to jail for covering him up.

She definetly needs help, you can let this go, but you can't go and beat the guy up if she is not ready to leave him.

Take her to talk to people who knows how to handle this situations.

here is a link to the Indiana Coalition against domestic violence:
http://www.violenceresource.org/statute.htm

I am really mad about this >:( but your daughter is the one who needs to stop it.

                     God bless you guys.

                                                Rosy.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Lotus on Aug 11th, 2007, 10:11am

Michael, I am so sorry to hear of the situation, it is a very very hard situation to deal with.

There are 3 main areas that need to be taken care of here:

1- Crisis intervention : the immediate issue right now is the safety of your daughter and her unborn child. She needs to be out of there. Even if its just for a few weeks, so that she can settle and start to get her head and her spirit together. I know she doesnt want to leave now but if she is removed from the environment then she will be more able to think clearly and see things from a different perspective. If you tell her now that she is to go somewhere for a while just to rest then she is more likely to agree to that.  Is there somewhere she can stay? Can you put her up for a while? There are many womens refuges but many women dont like to go there, its foreign, its not home and it carries a stigma for some. Is there friends or relatives that she can go to for a while?

2- Legal intervention : everything should be documented and reported. Can you take her to her GP, so that the story can be noted down. She also needs to be checked to make sure she and the baby is OK. If there is any visible marks like bruises, you should help her take photos with a date on them for future reference. Although she doesnt want to charge him now but she may very well change her mind later, and any evidence will help the case if she wants to take restraint on him.

3- Psychological support: A person doesnt become a victim of abuse overnight. She would have some deep  issues with most likely low confidence and self esteem. Right now she must be very frightened but believes that she cant cope/live/survive without him. She will need on going counselling and support to deal with these issues to be able to stop the victim mindset. Her GP should be able to link her with appropriate therapists and organisations.

If you can, sit down with her and let her talk. Listen to her "reasons" for not wanting to leave him now. Dont get upset and dont tell her its silly. To people outside of the circle, its very clear what is right and what is wrong, but to her, the "reasons" are very real and valid. Once you get to understand the "whys" from her point of view, you will be able to help her more effectively. If you are uncomfortable doing this, then make sure she sees a professional who can help. Her GP is a good place to start. He/She can also check her general health and the baby too.

I am not sure if its the same in US, but in Australia you can ring the local police and report the guy for domestic violence. The police will make a visit to the house and interview the person and make a recommendation as well as giving them a run down ( and very stern warning) on what the Laws is regarding domestic violence.

I dont think you should risk yourself by beating the guy up physically though. Get him through the right channels. The most important now is the safety of mother and child, as physical force can cause harm to the unborn baby, may even lead to miscarriage and endangering the mothers life. To achieve this, she needs to be out of there.

Wishing you the best of luck and if I can be of any help, just buzz.


Annette
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by deltadarlin on Aug 11th, 2007, 11:07am
Listen to Ree and Helen and a few of the other ladies here who have experience with battering.  I'm going to say something that may not be very popular with the guys here, but it has to be said, there is a chance that if *you* intervene or force your daughter to make a decision that she is not ready to make, that you will put her and the baby both in some very real danger.  I say this because, *if* she's not ready to leave him, goes back to him after there is intervention, it may get her the worst beating yet and you can bet your ass that he will twist things around to the point that your daughter will believe that it's not only her fault, but she *deserves* the beating.

I worked with battered women on and off for numerous years and what I learned was until they make up their minds to escape the violence, there is very little anybody can do.

In a lot of states where the police intervene, the person being battered does not have to press charges once the police are involved, HOWEVER, the batterer is usually out within 24 hours.

Case in point, I know of a woman that was getting the fuck beat out of her on a regular basis.  I, myself, saw the bruises and the imprint of his fingers around her neck where he had her down and tried to choke her (and a lot of these times were in front of their 9 year old daughter).  I tried to intervene, gave her a list of resources and even made the contacts for her to help her get to a safe place (she was working, so she had the money).  Guess what?  She stayed with him.  I even tried pulling the *trump* card of, "do you want your daughter to grow up and be in the same situation you are?  Because she's going to grow up thinking it's okay for daddy to beat mommy".  Didn't work.

Until she's ready to leave, there's not much you or anybody else can do.

Btw, I have a daughter so I do understand how you feel.  

Carolyn

edited to add, be careful of what you say around your daughter, you don't want to *turn* her against you and that is a distinct possibility when you make negative comments about her husband, she may shut you out and that's the very last thing you want to happen.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Lenny on Aug 11th, 2007, 11:38am
Unsolved,

  I am sure that this is not the first nor will it be the last time that this piece of shit lays a hand on her...To me there are certain things worth going to jail for (and this is one) now thats my opinion,you have to weigh it all out and see whats best for you and yours...The last time that i gave any type of advice (as far anything similar to this) a very good friend of mine  asked what i would do(and i told him what i would do if it were me)...BTW...he use to have a name of Ronald Wayne G.....,now goes by the name of H-76190 (d.o.c.) since april or may of 1992....It's a tough position to be where your at (your dammed if you do and dammed if you dont)....Sorry you and yours are going thru this.....Good luck...........Lenny
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Linda_Howell on Aug 11th, 2007, 12:02pm

 Call the cops or wait til he makes her lose her baby or worse.   You won't be able to live with yourself.

 A man that does that to a woman will do it again.  And again.

Linda  
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by cash5542 on Aug 11th, 2007, 12:28pm
So much good advice has been given and I hope you take it. I am sure you want to beat the crap out of the man however your daughter doesnt need you in jail too. I don't have total faith in Social Services but it's the way to go. I have worked in public schools for 27 years and have seen this too many times. My 47 year old sister also is in a current situation and she won't get out of it either. Your daughter needs counseling. If you pm me I will call social services. Like someone else said if she was in my classroom I too would have to report this. The abuse will only extend to her child and HAS to come to an end. If you can't get her to deal with it, good legal help is going to help you before you become a part of the problem. It would be great to get her out and a restraing order put on her husband! Good luck!!!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 11th, 2007, 1:15pm

on 08/11/07 at 11:07:27, deltadarlin wrote:
there is a chance that if *you* intervene or force your daughter to make a decision that she is not ready to make, that you will put her and the baby both in some very real danger.  I say this because, *if* she's not ready to leave him, goes back to him after there is intervention, it may get her the worst beating yet and you can bet your ass that he will twist things around to the point that your daughter will believe that it's not only her fault, but she *deserves* the beating.  Darlin, I agree, u cant demand that the daughter DOES anything, and you cant demand that the wife beater does anything.  That is why you need to TEACH the wife beater a lesson.....make him come to the realization that if he does this, it is going to be a very, very bad idea.  Just telling him it will be a bad idea is not teaching a lesson.
I worked with battered women on and off for numerous years and what I learned was until they make up their minds to escape the violence, there is very little anybody can do.  Exactly, Darlin.  The daughter might not be ready to make a hard decision, however, if the wife beater was taught a lesson, this would prevent the daughter from having to make a hard decision in the future.  It's called "nipping in the bud"

In a lot of states where the police intervene, the person being battered does not have to press charges once the police are involved, HOWEVER, the batterer is usually out within 24 hours.  Exactly, and when he comes out in 24 hours, he has not learned any lessons, so therefore, it was a waste of time and probably caused more danger.

Case in point, I know of a woman that was getting the fuck beat out of her on a regular basis.  I, myself, saw the bruises and the imprint of his fingers around her neck where he had her down and tried to choke her (and a lot of these times were in front of their 9 year old daughter).  I tried to intervene, gave her a list of resources and even made the contacts for her to help her get to a safe place.  Thats exactly my point.  Telling the woman to do something and giving her telephone numbers is not teaching a lesson to the wife beater.  If and when the wife beater learns his lesson, she can throw those numbers in the garbage.

Until she's ready to leave, there's not much you or anybody else can do.  Except for teach the dude a lesson....he is the only one that needs to learn, so he is the only one that needs to be taught.

Carolyn

edited to add, be careful of what you say around your daughter, you don't want to *turn* her against you and that is a distinct possibility when you make negative comments about her husband, she may shut you out and that's the very last thing you want to happen.  Daughter wouldnt even have to know about it......it would make her denial even more believable.  Next time Dad comes over with coffee and muffins and wife beater wets his pants, she might be a little curious, but she would have no idea.




Lemme give you an example of learning a lesson.  We went camping with my (then) 5 year old daughter.  We told her all day to NOT TOUCH any items near the fire.  We must have said it 100 times.  Telling her this did not teach her any lessons.  So, when she was toasting marshmallows, my daughter decided to touch the coal at the end of the stick, and she burned the fuck out of herself.  
She remembers that lesson to this day.  She doesnt even remember that we told her not to do that 100 times, but she remembers the lesson she learned vividly.

People dont listen to chatter, but they do remember lessons.  Teach that fuck a lesson.  I am not saying you need to hurt him, and I do not like violence, but you need to teach the wife beater a lesson so that he won't do it again.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by alienspacebabe on Aug 11th, 2007, 1:32pm
(Gulp)....

Okay. I was the daughter. I was also very young - started when I was 19. So, I've been there.

Whatever her reasons for staying, you can't make her leave. At least not for good.

Several people here will know what i mean by this: chances are that she believes that this is the best she deserves, that if she just did or didn't do insert anything here that then he would love her and treat her right. in her mind, this could very well be what's going on....

and, abuse is insidious - it creeps and grows, and you begin to believe the things he says, and that it's your fault that he's doing it.


So... do what you can to get her out of the situation.  take her to see the battered women's shelter people, so that even if she goes back now, she'll know where to go later. and do not belittle her for staying or going back - she'll need to trust you the next time he does this.


and once she's out for good: therapy.  it'll keep her from ending up with the same type of guy.


So sorry to hear your family is going through this....

jmh & experienced opinion...
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by purpleydog on Aug 11th, 2007, 2:17pm
Brian, I see your point. However, no one knows how much violence this jerk is capable of. If this were your daughter, when she is 18, is that what you would do, teach the guy a lesson, then they live happily ever after? She'd always be waiting for the other shoe to drop, and waiting for the next beating, and it will come. Men like this don't/ won't/ can't change overnight.

Violence will continue after the baby is born, and if he starts in on the child, then she can be held liable for anything that happens to the child. Who knows how he is around babies that cry? Or very young children? She may think it's her fault now, but what about the children? They will grow up thinking this is normal, and the cycle will continue.

Trying to teach him a lesson will only fuel his anger, and the beatings will be worse, or he may even go too far (and he already has), and she could be killed. Better that she get out, and leave him. Professional help is needed. The family is too close to the situation to be objective about it.

I sincerely hope she learns she is worth much more than she thinks, and makes the decision to leave him. It's most important that her father is there, and non-judgemental about this whole situation. She is an adult, and all you can do is let her know you are there for her, once she makes a decision. It's one of the hardest things you can do, but it is up to her.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 11th, 2007, 2:46pm

on 08/11/07 at 14:17:09, purpleydog wrote:
and if he starts in on the child, then she can be held liable for anything that happens to the child.  


Oh thats just great, now we are blaming her!

Mike, just go kick his ass like your father and mine would have done!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by purpleydog on Aug 11th, 2007, 2:53pm

on 08/11/07 at 14:46:32, Jonny wrote:
Oh thats just great, now we are blaming her!

Mike, just go kick his ass like your father and mine would have done!



No, "we" aren't blaming her, but in the eyes of the law, that's how it's seen.  Here in Illinois, there have been several cases where the husband is a wife beater, and also beat or shook, or even worse, threw children against the wall, and they died. Or ended up being seriously injured. Not only was the husband arrested, the wife was charged too, because the wife either knew about it, or even watched it.  Nevermind the fact that she couldn't have lifted a finger to stop it. Because he would have got her too.

Very complicated.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 11th, 2007, 2:59pm

on 08/11/07 at 14:53:12, purpleydog wrote:
Very complicated.


Extremely......I will leave at that.

(Mike, kick his ass!)
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by deltadarlin on Aug 11th, 2007, 4:02pm
Go ahead and kick his ass, but you'd best kill him while your at it, for several reasons.  (1)He will blame your daughter for it and it will give him another *reason* to punish her.  (2)He may or may not fight back and even if he does, you provoked it and he could very well file charges against you and have you arrested, repeat reason 1 and daddy is in jail.

As bad as it is and I know damned well how painful it is, she has to want to fight this battle.

The best thing you can do right now is let her know that you love her and will stand beside her NO MATTER WHAT DECISION SHE MAKES.  Let her know that if she wants help, you'll be right there with whatever she needs.

Listen to the wise women here.  More than one who has walked the same path as your daughter.  Haven't walked that path, but did help build the bridges for women to get out.

AND, above all else, document everything you see or hear in regards to your daughter (keep it written down somewhere).

'darlin

I wasn't aware that violence against adults was part of mandated reporting.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 11th, 2007, 6:07pm

on 08/11/07 at 16:02:59, deltadarlin wrote:
Go ahead and kick his ass, but you'd best kill him while your at it, for several reasons.  (1)He will blame your daughter for it and it will give him another *reason* to punish her.  (2)He may or may not fight back and even if he does, you provoked it and he could very well file charges against you and have you arrested, repeat reason 1 and daddy is in jail.

.


Ok, now its Mikes fault....what a fucking joke blaming everyone but the husband!!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by artonio7 on Aug 11th, 2007, 7:00pm
Here's a link you might pass onto her.

http://artonio7.com/abuse/abuse.html

It's strange that so many people are being abused in relationships but don't have a clue.
Education is so important... but that has to be followed up with a plan and an action.

with warm regards,
Tony
Title: "Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Jonny on Aug 11th, 2007, 7:11pm
"make you perform acts that are demeaning to you?
Title: Re: "Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by artonio7 on Aug 11th, 2007, 7:19pm

on 08/11/07 at 19:11:25, Jonny wrote:
"make you perform acts that are demeaning to you?



I guess the keywords here are "Make you"
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by UN solved on Aug 11th, 2007, 9:06pm
First of all ... thanks everyone for your thoughtful and caring replies and info.

Here's what's going on: She said she was already going to go see the doctor to have an ultasound so she left here. She didn't come back or call til late. She said she hadn't seen him yet (but the caller ID showed she was calling from his place) and she said she was staying with a girlfriend. She has not called here all day.

I did get ahold of her mother and told her. I guarantee that she's furious. I urged her to call the cops and CPS, but i'm not 100% sure how she will handle it. In the meantime, I'm driving up there to check on her now. It's about 40 minutes away. I want them to know I'm not that far away and that I do care and I'm watching what's going on. I also want that POS to crap his pants when I pull into the driveway !! (He'll probably sneek out a back window or something) He already knows he's in trouble with me ... and I'm unforgiving.

I'll let you guys and gals know what happened later on tonight.

Thanks again everybody ! Not to worry, I'll try to stay out of jail !!

UNsolved
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by Linda_Howell on Aug 11th, 2007, 9:38pm

 We'll all chip in for bail if need be.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by deltadarlin on Aug 11th, 2007, 9:39pm

on 08/11/07 at 18:07:27, Jonny wrote:
Ok, now its Mikes fault....what a fucking joke blaming everyone but the husband!!



You know what jonny?  Not one person has put the *blame* on anyone BUT the husband.  What *I* said and what others have said that given certain situations, certain outcomes may/could happen.  If that's *blaming* anyone, I'm mystified.

I can assure you if *I* thought Mike could rid the earth of that scum and get away with it, I'd help him plan it and then execute it.

'darlin
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by alienspacebabe on Aug 11th, 2007, 10:30pm
driving home tonight I was listening to the Dixie Chicks and thinking about this thread....

got any black eyed peas?


GOODBYE, EARL!!!
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. What to do ??
Post by UN solved on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:27am
Okay, I drove up there and saw her. She was at 'their' apartment but the husband was gone. Her mother-in-law was there (drinking and drunk). She said she's not staying there and was only there to get some more things. She's staying with a girlfriend in Austin, IN. She said her husband is supposed to voluntarly go in for anger management & drug and alcohol conseling too. ( I hope he follows through with it. Supposedly (sp), he feels guilty about it and wants the treatment to try and 'save his family' he said to her.

I still urged her to get out of there and leave that poor bastard. He's a LOSER !! He's going to do it again !! I've seen this play out so many times before in the past with others and it's never a good ending. I assured her that she could come and live with me for free (there's no need for her to try and get a job @ 8 months pregnant). I can support her for awhile to help out. I wanted her to know that she's "not stuck here" with him, that there is a safe way out - I'd make sure of it if she's committed to leaving him for good. She's supposed to come back and stay with me this week (Wed, Thur, Fri, and Sat). We might end up moving into another apartment. Although I'm not used to having a baby in the house, I'd do it in a minute if it means they'll be safe !!

All in all, it was a good talk. I feel better now that I went to see her. And as an added bonus, her husbands mom was there and I know she'll tell him I was there. That ought to make him think about things twice. They already said 'he's a nervous wreck, constantly looking over his shoulder' for me to show up ! !LOL ... He's sweating me badly ! (That's good)

Anyways, she's okay for now and we'll be over here next week. Maybe then, I'll introduce her to the boards and let her say Hi ! Some of you that's been through this ... I'd appreciate it if you would say something to her then (to try and convince her - none of it is her fault and that she needs to protect herself and her unborn child by leaving that fool!)  BTW, her name is Jaclyn -- I'll introduce her Wed night here on the general board.

Thanks again everyone and I'm sorry if it pissed any of you off or if it brought up old (bad) memories.

I just hope that she'll get out of that situation. She's young, smart, and very pretty - She CAN do alot better.

PF Wishes 2 All !

UNsolved
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by nani on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:42am
You did good, Mike.  :)

hugs, nani
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by Linda_Howell on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:49am

 
Quote:
And as an added bonus, her husbands mom was there and I know she'll tell him I was there. That ought to make him think about things twice.



Michael you said previous to this that her MIL was there and was drunk.  She may not remember anything...sigh.

  Michael's daughter:

   You are only 18...you have a life inside of you that will depend on you for every single thing.  You will probably.. like me, make many mistakes in raising this boy or girl, but one thing you have control over right now is this:  

That baby and YOU are more important than anything in this world.  No one should ever make you scared for your safety.   NO ONE.   You've got a lot to learn and very soon.  I hope you make the right choice and never ever put your faith and trust in a man who cannot be trusted to control his emtions..or his fists...or his words.

You are so much more important than that.   You have your parents to fall back on as well as all of us who have gone before you in this kind of thing.  And survived.

I took it for 25 years.   What a F-ing waste of those years when I could have been happy and my kids could have been raised in a normal environment.  

    Don't let yourself down.  You are worth so much more.

Linda
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by UN solved on Aug 12th, 2007, 1:54am
THanks Nani & Linda. And Linda, I will make sure she reads that. I'm going to steer her to this thread and make her read it !!!

Thanks again & PF wishes

UNsolved
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 12th, 2007, 2:11am

on 08/12/07 at 01:54:27, UN solved wrote:
THanks Nani & Linda. And Linda, I will make sure she reads that. I'm going to steer her to this thread and make her read it !!!

Thanks again & PF wishes

UNsolved


U want I should remove my ideas, Mike?  I have no problem removing them if you think your daughter might react negatively.
Just lemme know
B$
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by UN solved on Aug 12th, 2007, 9:00am
No B$, nobody has to remove anything. I'd rather her see the whole thread and how everyone feels. I don't want to water it down.

thanks anyways, much appreciated  :)

UNsolved
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by kayarr on Aug 12th, 2007, 12:14pm
Very wise not watering anything down.  As We all know that anger that is directed toward your daughter right now will eventually be turned toward the child too.  It may not happen right away but he will blame his wife and child for being "trapped".  He probably drinks to excess and has the alcoholic thought process.  He will need a lot of help for a long period of time and the odds are really against change. (even if he is not drinking right now he was raised with an alcoholic so he does not think correctly)

I care, I lived it and know first hand that the only actions I am responsible for are mine.

Kimberly
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by DennisM1045 on Aug 12th, 2007, 8:03pm
Hi Mike,

I just saw this thread.  Sorry I came to it so late but it looks like you've been getting some great advice.

I’ve been through your current situation with my oldest daughter.  He bruised her bad once.  I went all Rambo on his ass – I didn’t actually catch him but he ran from my two oldest boys and me every time he saw us for six months.  At one point she moved home for a few nights but then moved back.  As a result, things were real rough between us for the better part of 5 years.  I refused to have anything to do with him and she refused to give up on him.  That lasted till after they were married last summer.  

Turns out he went for counseling, she went for some therapy herself, they worked things out for themselves.  I’m not sure if the threat of my two oldest sons and myself hunting for him helped or hurt but the situation did work out for the best in the end.  He grew up and she stopped taking his s**t.  Now she tells him where to sit and for how long  ;;D

So, what did I learn from all this:

a) you can’t make her leave him.  It has to be her decision.
b) with the right help my son-in-law straightened out.  I never would have believed it at the time.
c) I missed my little girl during that 5 years.  But she’s back in my life again so I’m happy now.
d) Now that he treats her right he and I get along just fine.

This is just my experience.  It's frustrating not to be able to do anything.  My heart goes out to you brother.  Stay strong.  Don't overplay it.  If she's got your sense she'll figure it out.  Good luck...

-Dennis-
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by Paul98 on Aug 12th, 2007, 9:30pm
I would be inclined to invite the prick over when no one else was home, have the kitchen sink filled with water and have a little discussion with him by holding his head under the water for say....4-5 min.  When he is gasping tell him next time you will finish the job if he even thinks of touching her again.

On second thought, why dirty the kitchen sink, use the toilet. ;;D

-P.
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by Ghost on Aug 13th, 2007, 10:26am
I have 7 sisters unfortunately no Daughters. But to answer the question my baby sister went through the same thing and when I was done he wet himself at least 3 times. He is the dad to her 2nd son and whenever he came to visit him he would always ask where I was. He finially quit coming and she has not heard from him since. "I" never even had to lay a hand on him either. Get her out of there as soon as you can she will not stop him and he will continue till she is dead! Happens way to many times.

Mike
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by cootie on Aug 14th, 2007, 12:25am
Unfortunetly people like your daughter don't "see it".....till they see it......I mean they just don't get the concept of what is goin on till they see it happen to sumone else.....which is why the correct type of counceling may open her eyes !!!? Where maybe they get to talk 'in discussion groups' and here it from anouther angle and see how terrible it is to live that way and accepting it like she is.....getting a different view of themselves ! Did that make sense ?? See and relate......that kinda stuff.....then it may all hit her at once she's been wasteing her time.....she is better then him.....he's shit ! I hate men like that with a passion. Love can be blind.....esp when they see it as 'family' not wanting to make a scene or cause a hassle and just let it slide.....till next time.......slip 'n slide Pam  
Title: Re: Violence Hits Home. (UPDATED)
Post by sandie99 on Aug 14th, 2007, 4:13am
I've been reading this thread today with interest.

It brings back memories from my godmother's(she is also my cousin) former boyfriend. He was like that...  He verbally abused her, he accused her for having an affair each time she went our with her friends, he tried to isolate her, a social butterfly, from her family and friends when they lived together.

Luckily for my godmother, she got out before he hit her. But that was close and would have been, without a doubt, the next step.

Today my godaunt is happily married with a kind, caring man and they have four sons. :)

Unsolved, I wish and hope and pray that nothing worse will happen with your daughter. I hope that the man will see sense... but he can only change himself.

Sanna


Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.