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        New Message Board Archives >> 2007 General Board Posts >> HR king or cheating SOB?
        
(Message started by: Jonny on Aug 8th, 2007, 8:34pm)
Title: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 8th, 2007, 8:34pm
What say you?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yU6RM8Z0B5U

I say cheater, if you know the facts you know the truth!
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 8th, 2007, 9:03pm
*
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 8th, 2007, 9:13pm

on 08/08/07 at 21:03:04, Brewcrew wrote:
*


Exactly!
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by JDH on Aug 8th, 2007, 9:20pm

on 08/08/07 at 21:03:04, Brewcrew wrote:
*


Ditto Brew

Bob Costas described the record as not being authentic and  that's perfect.
Hopefully Barroid enjoyed last night because I believe the worst is yet to come for him ...stay tuned.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 8th, 2007, 9:33pm
I thought Bud Selig's body language was perfect after the fact. He wasn't in attendance. His written statement afterward included the fact that he was busy meeting with George Mitchell, who's heading up MLB's investigation into steroid use.

Bud doesn't do much right, but this one was right on the money.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Guiseppi on Aug 8th, 2007, 9:46pm
A cheater who has brought down every team he has ever played on with his selfish, it's all about me screw everyone else while I sit in my recliner I make them bring on the road attitude! TRY and find a former team mate who has ANYTHING nice to say about him.

****************************X756!!!

Just Guiseppi's humble opinion
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by jimmers on Aug 8th, 2007, 10:38pm
Hank Aaron ROCKS!

Nuff said!

Jimmers
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 8th, 2007, 10:53pm
* was and is a very talented baseball player. But at some point he decided that his talent wasn't good enough, so he started pumping the juice. And that's where he lost all my respect. Just like McGuire and Sosa. All very talented in their own right. And all clowns in my book.

Doesn't matter, though - they tried to go super-human artificially. And I believe history will put them all in their proper place.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Charlie on Aug 8th, 2007, 11:02pm
Bonds is what...42 or something.

It's not going to be a pretty thing watching the crap in store for him.

It ain't Hank Aaron. It ain't even Pete Rose.

Charlie
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Sean_C on Aug 8th, 2007, 11:12pm

on 08/08/07 at 23:02:03, Charlie wrote:
It ain't Hank Aaron. It ain't even Pete Rose.


What about the silent great players that played baseball because they just loved to play ball.

Yaz always comes to mind, his loyalty said it all to me.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/79/231940133_3f9e2c85bb.jpg?v=0
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by tanner on Aug 8th, 2007, 11:48pm

on 08/08/07 at 23:12:38, Sean_C wrote:
What about the silent great players that played baseball because they just loved to play ball.

Yaz always comes to mind, his loyalty said it all to me.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/79/231940133_3f9e2c85bb.jpg?v=0


Ditto, and Bonds is a punk!
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by gore2424 on Aug 9th, 2007, 8:49am
cheater cheater cheater

Go # 19 Robin Yount HOF'er (1999) played for Brewer's all his career
&
I quit watching baseball after they went on strike but
# 8 the "IRON MAN" Cal Ripken brought me back when he broke Lou Gehrig's record on 9/6/95 when he played his 2,131 consecutive game
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Aug 9th, 2007, 9:07am
And the guy that caught the ball ( 756) in San Francisco was wearing a METS jersey. Go figure----other than the fact that you have to love this guy.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by gore2424 on Aug 9th, 2007, 10:36am
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/gore2424/Yountcal002.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/gore2424/Yountcal001.jpg
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by UN solved on Aug 9th, 2007, 10:54am
CHEATER !!

DRUGGIE LOSER !!

UNsolved
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 9th, 2007, 2:28pm
When Bonds tied Hank Aaron's record at 755, my local newspaper had a headline that read.....

BONDS EQUALS AARON!

I said, nope, he don't, and used the sports section to wrap dead fish.

And to answer the question about what happened to the good players who played just because they loved the game...they are, unfortunately only in the history books.

Now, money talks.  I say this from personal experience.  My father was the starting pitcher for the St. Louis Browns back in the 40's, when there were no pinch hitters, no stand-in base runners, no zillion dollar contracts.  He was paid in the neighborhood of $18,000 per year, had to re-qualify every year in order to start again, no benefits, had to buy his own uniform, had to bat himself, run the bases himself.  Why did he play?  Because he LOVED the game and he was good at it.

That's when baseball was BASEBALL.  Now, it's nothing more than one humongous boring corporation,  who cares absolutely nothing for the fans.  Hell, the average Joe fan can't even afford to buy a ticket!

Baseball sucks now.  What was once a wonderful game, and America's favorite sport and pasttime, has been destroyed by overpaid drug using A$$holes, and isn't worth my spit!

Sandy
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 9th, 2007, 2:40pm

on 08/09/07 at 14:28:24, Sandy_C wrote:
When Bonds tied Hank Aaron's record at 755, my local newspaper had a headline that read.....

BONDS EQUALS AARON!

I said, nope, he don't, and used the sports section to wrap dead fish.

Except you had already paid for the fishwrap. ;;D

Take the next step - cancel your subscription.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 9th, 2007, 4:03pm

on 08/08/07 at 21:03:04, Brewcrew wrote:
*


http://www.nypost.com/delonas/2007/08/08092007.jpg

..................................... ;;D
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 9th, 2007, 4:39pm

on 08/09/07 at 16:03:42, Jonny wrote:
http://www.nypost.com/delonas/2007/08/08092007.jpg

..................................... ;;D


Beautiful!  I love it!
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 9th, 2007, 4:49pm

on 08/09/07 at 16:03:42, Jonny wrote:
http://www.nypost.com/delonas/2007/08/08092007.jpg

..................................... ;;D

This now adorns my desktop.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 9th, 2007, 4:50pm

on 08/09/07 at 14:40:38, Brewcrew wrote:
Except you had already paid for the fishwrap. ;;D

Take the next step - cancel your subscription.


Bill, I would love to, have wanted to for years.  But, my local rag is the only place I can get the sale ads and coupons for frivilous things, like food, shoes, underwear, etc.  And, since it's the only rag in town, I'm stuck with it.  I could get the rag from the neighboring town but it's worse than this rag.   I definitely don't read my rag for the news of the world - the front page is dedicated to "local" garbage, and the rest is dedicated to "high society" and who made the deb of the month.  The rest of the world does not exist.
:P

S
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 9th, 2007, 5:09pm

on 08/09/07 at 16:49:46, Brewcrew wrote:
This now adorns my desktop.


Good, cause the first thing I thought of when I was reading the NY post and saw it was you....I laughed like all hell and was on a mission to find it when I got home. ;;D
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 9th, 2007, 5:11pm

on 08/09/07 at 16:50:17, Sandy_C wrote:
Bill, I would love to, have wanted to for years.  But, my local rag is the only place I can get the sale ads and coupons for frivilous things, like food, shoes, underwear, etc.  And, since it's the only rag in town, I'm stuck with it.  I could get the rag from the neighboring town but it's worse than this rag.   I definitely don't read my rag for the news of the world - the front page is dedicated to "local" garbage, and the rest is dedicated to "high society" and who made the deb of the month.  The rest of the world does not exist.
:P

S

Well, Sandy, if you save more in coupons than you spend on the paper, then you're ahead. I'm not a coupon clipper, so it was dead weight on my pocketbook.

I realize that it's not expensive, but we canceled ours right after Pat's dad died. I don't want to give one more dime to a group of hand-wringers that endorses nothing but people who think they know how to spend my money better than I do.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this important thread:

Barry Bonds is a Fraud!
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 9th, 2007, 5:12pm

on 08/09/07 at 17:09:31, Jonny wrote:
Good, cause the first thing I thought of when I was reading the NY post and saw it was you....I laughed like all hell and was on a mission to find it when I got home. ;;D

Thanks for the link, bro. This is one of the best sports themed political cartoons I've ever seen.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 9th, 2007, 7:27pm
I have an unpopular opinion.

WTF is wrong with this world?  Barry Bonds is probably one of the greatest baseball players *ever*.  The *Bullshit* that has been heaped on this man is simply incredible.

FACT:  NOBODY here knows if Bonds really juiced.  It is all guessing at this point.  He has never admitted to it.  He has never tested positive.  Never.

FACT: The man has the most intense work ethic of any player I have ever met.  Yes, I have met Bonds and spoken to him.  It is no wonder he looks the way he does when he lifts weights like he is training for

FACT:  Sports Illustrated has been doing hatchet jobs on Bonds since the time that Bonds snubbed one of their reporters.  We live in a country of damn SHEEP.  Everybody just reads the bullshit they write and suddenly it is fact.

FACT:  NOBODY here knows Bonds, but everybody is ready to hang the man.  Why?  Because he has broken like every record in baseball?  WTF?

Look, even IF he juiced (it sure looks like he did, I'll admit that) I don't care.  For one thing, it wasn't even against the rules in MLB.  Now, it is against the rules, but IF he did, he did it when there were no rules against it.  Plus, you know for a fact that many other players have admitted to taking steroids.  Is Bonds guilty just because he bulked up to stay competitive?  How do you all know how he managed to bulk up?  Has anyone here ever tried to bulk up?  They are many ways to do it without steroids.  Like WORK at it, which is exactly what the man does because he is a consummate professional.

I say take the '*' and shove it where the sun don't shine.  Bonds is a great baseball player and it is a travesty that history will paint him as a loser drug user because all of you are sheep listening and eating the media bullshit.

So... that's my rant.  Sorry if I offended anyone, but in my defense, I find this unwarranted public lynching of Bonds to be very offensive.

-Fu
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 9th, 2007, 7:35pm

on 08/09/07 at 19:27:24, fubar wrote:
FACT:  NOBODY here knows if Bonds really juiced.  It is all guessing at this point.  He has never admitted to it.  He has never tested positive.  Never.


Aint his trainer sitting in jail because he wont answer questions?

Didnt a dude from a drug company come forward and say that Barry did the drugs he made?

Hammering Hank was on no shit, that is why this record is BS, MLB rules or not!
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 9th, 2007, 7:45pm
Like I said, nobody knows.  His trainer is sitting in jail because he is refusing to play along with this lynching of Barry.  The whole court thing was a perjury trap from the beginning.  You should do more to try and understand about protecting *your* rights as an American and *not* submitting to Gestapo-like tactics.

Everybody has already made their decision.  We should just hang him, eh?

How many pitchers that he hit homers against were juiced?  You're right, it was only Barry who should be penalized for juicing because he couldn't admit it.  Just Barry's records should have a '*'.  Oh wait, should the 10 or 15 records he broke before the juice count?  Or should we just erase him altogether.  Would it be more acceptable if he wasn't black?  I wonder.

It funny how people just LOVE to tear high-achievers down, especially when they don't know shit about anything.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 9th, 2007, 7:53pm

on 08/09/07 at 19:45:41, fubar wrote:
You're right, it was only Barry who should be penalized for juicing because he couldn't admit it.  Just Barry's records should have a '*'.  Oh wait, should the 10 or 15 records he broke before the juice count?  Or should we just erase him altogether.  Would it be more acceptable if he wasn't black?  I wonder.


Its funny how you just LOVE to put words in my fingers that I never typed.  ;)

Edit to add: Barry will never be seen as King, Hank is the TRUE King and I doubt anyone not juiced will EVER take his title, because there will never be anyone not juiced in some way these days!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RF50f6wWs08
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 9th, 2007, 9:10pm
fubar - Apparently you didn't read all the words I wrote. I said that Bonds is and was one of the greatest to ever play the game.

But that wasn't good enough for him. He had to be even better. He had to gain an edge. How many would he have hit without the juice? Maybe he'd be at 656 right now. And he would be within striking distance in a couple of years.

It's the arrogance and pride behind the decision to jack himself up that bothers me. You can tell yourself that since it hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he juiced, it means that he didn't. We all know he did. And that's when he lost my respect and the respect of the vast majority of baseball fans.

I'm going to take that asterisk out from where the sun don't shine and hand it back to you. You might want to wash it off before you decide what to do with it.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 9th, 2007, 9:20pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gb7ICl-If1M
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by gore2424 on Aug 10th, 2007, 12:37am
fubar relax take it easy there
"dont get so excited you will last longer"
Terry Ü
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by JDH on Aug 10th, 2007, 10:16am

Quote:
I have an unpopular opinion.

WTF is wrong with this world?  Barry Bonds is probably one of the greatest baseball players *ever*.  The *Bullshit* that has been heaped on this man is simply incredible.

FACT:  NOBODY here knows if Bonds really juiced.  It is all guessing at this point.  He has never admitted to it.  He has never tested positive.  Never.


Not only has he gone from a size 42 to a 52 jersey but his hat size increased by a quarter inch and his shoe size has gone from 10 ½ to a 13. People don’t naturally have growth spurts from the age 28 through their late 30’s.


Quote:
FACT: The man has the most intense work ethic of any player I have ever met.  Yes, I have met Bonds and spoken to him.  It is no wonder he looks the way he does when he lifts weights like he is training for


That’s the beauty of  steroids, they help you recover faster from work outs and you’re able to do more in a shorter period of time.


Quote:
FACT:  Sports Illustrated has been doing hatchet jobs on Bonds since the time that Bonds snubbed one of their reporters.  We live in a country of damn SHEEP.  Everybody just reads the bullshit they write and suddenly it is fact.


If Barry is innocent then why isn’t he suing everybody who has dragged his name through the mud?


Quote:
FACT:  NOBODY here knows Bonds, but everybody is ready to hang the man.  Why?  Because he has broken like every record in baseball?  WTF?


I think that's because most people outside of SF don't feel like he’s gone about it the right way.



Quote:
Look, even IF he juiced (it sure looks like he did, I'll admit that) I don't care.  For one thing, it wasn't even against the rules in MLB. Now, it is against the rules, but IF he did, he did it when there were no rules against it.  


No it wasn’t against MLB rules but it IS against federal law. I don't believe murder is mentioned in the MLB rulebook either but there are laws outside of baseball, no?


Quote:
Plus, you know for a fact that many other players have admitted to taking steroids.  Is Bonds guilty just because he bulked up to stay competitive?  How do you all know how he managed to bulk up?  Has anyone here ever tried to bulk up?  They are many ways to do it without steroids.  Like WORK at it, which is exactly what the man does because he is a consummate professional.

I say take the '*' and shove it where the sun don't shine.  Bonds is a great baseball player and it is a travesty that history will paint him as a loser drug user because all of you are sheep listening and eating the media bullshit.

So... that's my rant.  Sorry if I offended anyone, but in my defense, I find this unwarranted public lynching of Bonds to be very offensive.

-Fu


Not offended Fu but I just don’t see how you can defend this guy. Me, I'm a purist. If I wanna watch a freak show I'll turn on the WWF.

Jim
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 10th, 2007, 10:43am

on 08/10/07 at 10:16:46, JDH wrote:
If I wanna watch a freak show I'll turn on the WWF.

[smiley=crackup.gif]
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 10th, 2007, 12:44pm
Thank God we cleared that up... tried, convicted, all that's left now is the hanging.

Got a rope?
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Guiseppi on Aug 10th, 2007, 12:53pm
Being a loyal Padre Fan and a cowboy at heart....I'll show you how to fashion a hangmans noose........... ;;D

Guiseppi
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Racer1_NC on Aug 10th, 2007, 12:55pm

on 08/10/07 at 12:53:52, Guiseppi wrote:
Being a loyal Padre Fan and a cowboy at heart....I'll show you how to fashion a hangmans noose........... ;;D

Nah.......takes too long....shoot him and get it over with.   ;;D
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 10th, 2007, 12:59pm
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."

So important that it's repeated below.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 10th, 2007, 1:08pm
I miss Mark "The Bird" Fidrych.

http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/fidryma01.php

Scott
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by nani on Aug 10th, 2007, 1:22pm

on 08/10/07 at 10:16:46, JDH wrote:
People don’t naturally have growth spurts from the age 28 through their late 30’s.


I had a huge growth spurt between age 42 and 47. I went from a size ... oh, wait... you don't mean that kind of spurt. Nevermind.   ::)
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by JDH on Aug 10th, 2007, 1:23pm

on 08/10/07 at 12:53:52, Guiseppi wrote:
Being a loyal Padre Fan and a cowboy at heart....I'll show you how to fashion a hangmans noose........... ;;D

Guiseppi


Good luck making a noose big enough to fit over his enormous cranium  ;;D
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 10th, 2007, 5:15pm

on 08/09/07 at 19:53:22, Jonny wrote:
Its funny how you just LOVE to put words in my fingers that I never typed.  ;)


Sorry Jonny, it wasn't all directed at you.

-Fu
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 10th, 2007, 5:19pm
Its just a stupid thread with squiggly lines, bro....LOL  ;)
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Charlie on Aug 10th, 2007, 6:55pm
http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/POPCORN 2.gif

Charlie
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Jonny on Aug 10th, 2007, 10:05pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YozN44DSQUg
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 15th, 2007, 4:31pm

on 08/09/07 at 19:27:24, fubar wrote:
I have an unpopular opinion.


Yep, ya do

FACT: The man has the most intense work ethic of any player I have ever met.  Yes, I have met Bonds and spoken to him.  It is no wonder he looks the way he does when he lifts weights like he is training for


So do other pro athletes, who choose to make, or break their careers on their natural abilities, without the use of drugs

FACT:  Sports Illustrated has been doing hatchet jobs on Bonds since the time that Bonds snubbed one of their reporters.  We live in a country of damn SHEEP.  Everybody just reads the bullshit they write and suddenly it is fact.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....



FACT:  NOBODY here knows Bonds, but everybody is ready to hang the man.  Why?  Because he has broken like every record in baseball?  WTF?



With a little help

Look, even IF he juiced (it sure looks like he did, I'll admit that) I don't care.  

Well, I DO care.  My dad worked his ass off to play pro baseball, even leaving high school before he graduated.  He  trained hard, he sweated, he had to re-qualify every year, with no contracts.  Yep, this was in the late 40's and early 50's.  Go ahead, tell me that the only reason was because they didn't have these "wonder drugs" then.  Go ahead an tell me that my father would have chosen to use these drugs.  Go ahead and tell me that athletes today, who truely want to win on their own merits do not exist.  Tell me this!  I will call you a liar.

For one thing, it wasn't even against the rules in MLB.  Now, it is against the rules, but IF he did, he did it when there were no rules against it.  
And just because there were no rules is OK with you???  I question your integrity




I say take the '*' and shove it where the sun don't shine.  Bonds is a great baseball player and it is a travesty that history will paint him as a loser drug user because all of you are sheep listening and eating the media bullshit.

So... that's my rant.  Sorry if I offended anyone, but in my defense, I find this unwarranted public lynching of Bonds to be very offensive.

-Fu



Barry Bonds is offensive to every athlete, professional, amateur, high school, grade school

Now, I'm off MY rant!

Sandy
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 15th, 2007, 4:45pm
March 3, 2005 ( By Elliott Kalb ) Even subtracting for steroids, Bonds is the best of all time.

When one thinks of Barry Bonds, you can only name a handful of athletes that have achieved what he has in his career. You can start with Babe Ruth, Muhammed Ali, and Michael Jordan, and then you have to admit Barry takes a back seat to no one else. Contrary to what most people think, none of those three were universally loved by the media during their playing days.

In 1993, at the peak of his playing career, Michael Jordan had a Bonds-like scandal that affected his career with the press. Jordan was caught with evidence (checks) linking him to lowlifes. He was forced to admit running up huge gambling losses in poker and golf.

Jordan didn't exactly embrace the media, at this point. He didn't grant friendly interviews to out-of-town reporters. He displayed the same evasive measures that Barry Bonds displayed in his state-of-the-world when he showed up at spring training.

Although Jordan didn't answer questions that didn't pertain to things on the court, his father James told reporters this: "He doesn't have a gambling problem. He wouldn't be doing that if he couldn't afford it. He isn't that stupid. What he does have is a competition problem. And if he didn't have a competition problem, you guys wouldn't be writing about him."

Michael Jordan lost his father soon after that, to a gruesome murder. Then, Jordan stepped away from the game.
Barry Bonds doesn't have a steroids problem. He isn't that stupid. What he does have is a competition problem. And if he didn't have a competition problem, you guys wouldn't be writing about him.

Those are my words, because Barry's dad, Bobby, passed away in 2003 to cancer. The difference between Barry and Michael is this.

Barry Bonds isn't walking away from his late-career scandal. Like Jordan's gambling problem, however, it will diminish in time and Bonds will be remembered for his exploits on the field.

I considered Barry Bonds as baseball's all time greatest player, and even taking into account and subtracting for his "cheating", Bonds should be considered the game's greatest player.

[continued...]
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 15th, 2007, 4:46pm
[...continued]


Cheating has always gone on in pro sports, especially when the stakes are so high. When it is done by popular players, there is a "wink-wink" about it, and it might be called "gamesmanship". Think about it. When Sammy Sosa was caught with a corked bat, no one dismissed his entire career. When Gaylord Perry was caught applying substances to the baseball (and he later admitted all following his career) his career numbers weren't stricken, or reduced. Bonds may have hit home runs off pitchers who were on steroids.

Baseball didn't have a steroid policy in place until 2002 . And besides, Bonds grand jury testimony was that he took a steroid cream, but didn't know what it was.

So, Dan Rather gets a pass for a late-career scandal in which he "trusted" his underlings, but Barry Bonds does not?

So much of this has to do with resentment towards Bonds. African American journalists have written that it's because people don't like Bonds. I believe it. Mark McGwire mostly gets a pass from the American public.

People don't want Barry to break Babe Ruth's and Hank Aaron's home run records.

Why should I give Babe Ruth, and others from earlier eras, the benefit of the doubt. Jim Bouton wrote in his 1970 book "Ball Four" that if there was a pill that he could take that would take five years off his life--but guarentee him 20 victories--he would take it. He said everyone would have taken it. I asked Bouton about steroids recently, and he said that the only reason players of his era didn't take steroids was because they wasn't available.

Tony Gwynn is on record saying clubhouses were strewn with amphetamines, commonly referred to as "greenies". They enhance performance by allowing players to combat the hard-living nightlife. How do we know who is clean and who isn't? We don't.

After much reading, I have decided the best thing steroids could have done for Bonds was in recuperative powers. He was able to stay in the lineup, which added to his career totals. But steroids didn't help him with his amazing hand/eye coordination. Or his patience. Or his baserunning. Or his fielding.

We can't dismiss everything he did the last couple of years. So take away 20 percent of the last three or four years. Take away 20 percent of the last 20 percent of his career. An A+ student got caught cheating. Doesn't mean he's still not the smartest kid in class.

If you want to take away 50 homers from Bonds' total, fine. He's still the best of all time. But then, take away from Babe Ruth, because he was pitched to with a livelier, brighter baseball than earlier eras. Take away totals from Roger Maris, because expansion and smaller ballparks aided home run totals. Take away totals from Reggie Jackson, because he hit a lot of home runs as a designated hitter. Take away totals from all the modern players who have vision-corrected surgery, which wasn't available to players from earlier eras.

I love all the sportswriters who wrote that Barry "cheated" us, and "cheated" baseball. No, Mickey Mantle cheated us. He had a God-given world of talent, and (admittedly, in his later years) squandered it by abusing his body with a hard-living lifestyle. Barry Bonds has worked hard in the weight room from the day he entered the major leagues.

Bonds has never taken the easy way out, and walked away from controversy. I don't know if he has a steroids problem. I do know he has a problem with the media. I do know that he has a competition problem. I do know that he is the greatest player of all time.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 15th, 2007, 4:49pm
I think that article sums it up quite nicely.

What's the view like from up there?
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 15th, 2007, 4:51pm
Fubar, you and I are never going to reach an agreement.

Bonds did drugs!

Jordan gambled.

Pete Rose was banned from baseball because he gambled.

Bonds did drugs.  And not just drugs, but performance enhancing drugs.


I'm sorry Fubar.  You will never, ever convince me that any athlete should receive acolades for his or her performance when it is shown that they have abused  the athlete's credo of doingthe best they can without  using performance enhancing drugs.   I don't care what the sport is, or who the athlete is, or how famous that athlete may be.  That athlete (if we can continue to call him or her that, has disparaged the word "athlete".

Drugs, including steroids, are banned, should be banned, and anyone using them should be banned from all sports, at any level, from pros down to little league.

What kind of role model to our children is someone like Bonds?  

Yeah, he can hit a baseball, but at what cost?

S
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 15th, 2007, 4:53pm
We don't need to agree.

However, I didn't 'question your integrity'.  I simply have a different opinion.

Thanks for that.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 15th, 2007, 5:02pm
An A+ student who is compelled to cheat on a test?

That's messed up, and so is Barry. It doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest hitters of all time (he was). Greatest player of all time? No way. His fielding abilities are slightly above average.

But his compulsion to cheat (not necessarily by breaking the rules but by looking to gain an unfair advantage) is what makes him total trash in my book. He already had the ability. But it wasn't good enough for him.

It's just plain sick. And Barry has gone from hero to goat.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 15th, 2007, 5:11pm
If anyone here knew *jack* about Baseball, they would KNOW that nearly all ball players use *something* at some point.  Amphetamines, steroids... hell, I know of one pitcher who went to the mound on LSD and pitched a no-hitter.  He was so high, he couldn't form the words 'no hitter' when he was talking to his catcher in the top of the 8th inning, so the term 'no no' was born.

Fuckin HIGH horses, all of ya

[edited because I can't type for shit]
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Brewcrew on Aug 15th, 2007, 5:14pm
So, your philosophy then is "it's okay for me because everyone else is doing it." Fuckin high horse, my ass. If my kid offered that one up I'd kick his ass into next week.

I wasn't going to question your integrity or your level of moral standard, but I'm starting to rethink.
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 15th, 2007, 5:17pm
My Dad didn't.

But, of course, that was back in the old days, when baseball was a game, and men played  just for the joy of being on that field, because they were good at what they did, and they loved the game.

Somehow, baseball today, along with all of the other "pro" sports, ain't what is used to be.

S
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by Charlie on Aug 15th, 2007, 5:20pm

on 08/15/07 at 16:46:32, fubar wrote:
People don't want Barry to break Babe Ruth's and Hank Aaron's home run records.


Can't disagee with that. Roger Maris took a helluva beating when he came close to the Babe and finally 61. All the stops were pulled out: Shorter fences, lower fences, more lively ball, bat, and more.

Charlie
Title: Re: HR king or cheating SOB?
Post by fubar on Aug 15th, 2007, 5:27pm
Brew,

Twist my words all you like... I didn't say that.

What I'm saying is, I don't hear anybody saying anything (dead silence) about any other baseball player who plays now or in the past.  All of the vitriol is directed at Barry.

If you're gonna hang Barry, hang them all.  That's what I'm saying.  It's a lot different than 'everybody else did it so it's OK'.

Have a beer.  get a ropt.  Line em up and shoot em.


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