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        New Message Board Archives >> 2007 General Board Posts >> Anyone else hear about this?
        
(Message started by: Redd on Jul 12^th, 2007, 3:18pm)

Title: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Redd on Jul 12^th, 2007, 3:18pm

I read this today on aother site I frequent. Anyone hear about this?

Quote:

To the distress of the DOJ, the IRS, and all the IRS shills on this site the Jury in the trial of Attorney Tom Cryer found there is no law making the average American liable for the income tax. Tom Cryer was found not guilty on all counts.

The prosecution lied to the jury claiming there was such a law. Of course, they were unable to show the jury such a law because there is none. All the prosecution could come up with was two lower court rulings from corupt and lying judges. However, as Tom Cryer pointed out the lower courts cannot overturn the Supreme Court and he pointed out numberous Supreme Courts proving to the jury, that not only was there no such law, but such a law would be unconstitutional.

The DOJ and IRS had the judge in their pocket and so they were licking their chops at the prospects of winning by lying to the jury. However, the jury saw through their lies and would not convict.

This trial is a MAJOR HIT against the IRS and the Department of Injustice. As more citizens become aware that the government has been lying to them, the DOJ will not be able to get convictions, regardless of how unfair the trials are. Within a few years the IRS is toast; they are history.

Here is the website that has the details leading up to the trial.

http://www.gcstation.net/liefreezone/

Comments anyone?

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Lobster on Jul 12^th, 2007, 4:04pm

I see that the jury found him not guilty.

Very interesting development. Up until this pretty much every 'income tax is unconstitutional' argument landed the person in the big house for tax evasion.

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Jonny on Jul 12^th, 2007, 4:06pm

You can listen to Tom talking on a radio show here: http://www.petermacshow.com/content/view/190/34/

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Redd on Jul 12^th, 2007, 4:09pm

I just wasn't sure if anyone had been following this case at all. It's is very interesting, and would seen to nullify earlier convictions on the same gounds...would it not?

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Lobster on Jul 12^th, 2007, 4:26pm

on 07/12/07 at 16:09:45, Redd wrote:

I just wasn't sure if anyone had been following this case at all. It's is very interesting, and would seen to nullify earlier convictions on the same gounds...would it not?

No... each case stands on its own, but it could be referenced as a precedent in an appeal.

Ed and Elaine Brown are holed up on their estate on the same basis.

Interesting can of worms this might open. Most agree that the federal government has greatly overstepped its intended limits, funded mainly by income tax. That said, much of our way of life is based on that existing balance.

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Redd on Jul 12^th, 2007, 4:37pm

Hell,

As the laws are REALLY written, (or at least how I'm coming to understand this) the rich who are making profits off already earned income have tax shelters to protect those profits, when it is legal to tax these profits. It's all been happening back asswards.

I want to find out simply what the case number of this District Court case is. I have some plans come January... ;)

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Redd on Jul 13^th, 2007, 10:10am

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070713/NEWS03/707130321/1062/NEWS03

News story about the ruling.

I can understand why, after this has become a way of life, filing 1040 forms and calculating withholdings and exemptions that if is nearly unbelievable that Tom didn't get his butt thrown in jail. The government actually dismissed all felony charges against him prior to trial. Could it be that they knew without a doubt that they didn't have the proof that any such law exists? I don't know for sure, but I think this will be interesting to see it play out over time.

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Jonny on Jul 13^th, 2007, 9:07pm

HUGE BUMP

Edit to add:....BarbD, Monkey man....any comments on this?

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Redd on Jul 13^th, 2007, 9:37pm

on 07/12/07 at 16:26:48, Lobster wrote:

No... each case stands on its own, but it could be referenced as a precedent in an appeal.

Ed and Elaine Brown are holed up on their estate on the same basis.

Interesting can of worms this might open. Most agree that the federal government has greatly overstepped its intended limits, funded mainly by income tax. That said, much of our way of life is based on that existing balance.

My understanding of how the revenue gained from Federal income taxes is earmerked is that it goes to the Federal reserve to pay the interest on the Federal Debt.

Now I'm thinking...if it's(possibly) not legal to tax income federaly, and state taxes are in anyway based on the legality that federal taxes are paid is it even (again, possibly) legal to enforce state income taxes? Logically it would follow that if pay in exchange for labor is not federaly taxable then it shouldn't be taxable on a state level, as state laws must also comply with federal law? And if a Supreme Court has defined what is and isn't taxable income doesn't every state have to comply?

I admit I'm thinking aloud here...I'm no laywer.

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by UN solved on Jul 13^th, 2007, 10:13pm

Sounds nice that Americans may not have to pay taxes. But then again, what would happen to this country if the tax revenues stopped all together ? we'd most likely implode into a civil war, where every man would be for himself. It wouldn't be pretty at all !

UNsolved

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Jonny on Jul 13^th, 2007, 10:42pm

on 07/13/07 at 22:13:05, UN solved wrote:

But then again, what would happen to this country if the tax revenues stopped all together ?

Ever hear of a thing called "The tea party?"

We are still here are we not?

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jul 14^th, 2007, 6:26pm

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp

Bobw

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by BarbaraD on Jul 15^th, 2007, 5:46am

This stuff is awesome. It would mean that the IRS and all it's power is ILLEGAL.

Maybe it's time for people to stand up and say so....

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 15^th, 2007, 10:04am

Paying income taxes doesn’t bother me they are important to maintain essential services and operations of government.

It’s the increasing levels of taxation, reckless spending and lack of government accountability that bothers me. It’s not a Democrat vs. republican issue both party’s have/are contributing to this taxpayer nightmare of limitless debt and taxes. It starts with accountability and unfortunately far too many voters and taxpayers choose to ignore out of control government growth and spending.

There’s the fraud of payroll taxes on employees and employers for Social Security funding general operations instead of being invested to provide survivor/retirement benefits as intended. A $2 and $3 trillion in principal that should have/be collecting investment returns for the Social Security trust has disappeared in a mountain of worthless government IOU’s promising minimal paper interest from a government $9 Trillion in debt. The only means the government has to actually pay the interest or even restore the missing principal is to impose new tax forcing U.S. citizens to repay their own money raised from already misappropriated taxes.

Secondly federal, state and local government all get their cuts based on gross income. Essentially everyone is paying taxes on the taxes they pay to the feds. Since not raising income taxes is a hot topic, government increasingly supplants income taxes with creative taxes on all basic services (hidden taxes is the term coined by Al Gore) to hide the fact that taxes are endlessly increasing (telephone, electricity, natural gas, etc., etc., etc.).

Then we get hit for sales tax, property tax, federal excise taxes, school taxes, etc., etc., etc., while supplementing growing levels of taxation with fees charged for virtually all required government licensing, permitting, services, etc., etc., etc.

But it’s still never enough to support government growth that has extended its tentacles to control every aspect of daily life. Without ever having to account for where the money goes, state and local governments are always on the verge of bankruptcy while school districts and municipal boards always need more - so they increasingly turn to bond markets to “balance” budgets creating even greater future taxpayer liabilities claiming endless borrowing is a magical form of financial stability. What’s more, the federal government borrows from foreign nations to subsidize its massive and growing debt.

Just think about the inflation and economic stagnation this has created for the average person. Consumer dollars feeding unproductive government operations stifles true economic growth and productivity in the “free market” our insatiable political leaders claim to support.

Tom

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Jonny on Jul 15^th, 2007, 10:15am

I wonder what Tom Cryers case will do for the Browns.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1ZnzGredcIs

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Jonny on Jul 15^th, 2007, 10:29am

the Sixteenth Amendment was passed by the Sixty-first Congress and submitted to legislatures of the several states on July 12, 1909. The amendment was the crowning feature of a larger trend of legislative action meant to curb the power of the wealthy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/16th_Amendment_Pg1of1_AC.jpg/396px-16th_Amendment_Pg1of1_AC.jpg

The Supreme Court's interpretation of the Sixteenth Amendment has changed considerably over time and there have been many disputes about the applicability of the amendment.......Yeah right!

Title: Re: Anyone else hear about this?
Post by Opus on Jul 15^th, 2007, 8:30pm

There has never been a law saying that you must pay Federal income taxes. The only thing you must legally do is file your tax forms correctly, any mistake and they have got you. That law was used to put many a mobster behind bars.

Paul