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        New Message Board Archives >> 2007 General Board Posts >> Research assistance needed.
        
(Message started by: Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 9:49am)

Title: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 9:49am

So I went to the WI DWD website and I couldn't find anything regarding the age a worker must be to serve or transport alcohol. I believe that a server must be 18 in order to take orders and serve alcohol.

I'm on my way back there but if anyone could help out with this research I'd appreciate it. No one short pays my kid!

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by pattik on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 9:59am

Here in Wisconsin it's 18. When my daughter had a server job at 17 she couldn't carry alcohol for another year. I hope this helps you figure things out for his wage issues.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 10:13am

I've also found some documentation for that and printed it out.

His friend Austin also works there. I'm going to call over there and talk to his dad and see if they have noticed this on Austin's pay stubs as well. Maybe there will be 2 families taking this to court.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by pattik on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 10:17am

I'm assuming that he is sharing in the tip pool--how does that play into things?

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 10:21am

No...Dylan has never received any tip money, although his pay stub claims he has. He's sleeping still, but as soon as he wakes up I'll get Austin's phone number and call his father. This just burns me up. Cheating a kid out of honest pay is just WRONG!

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 11:12am

I called Austins Dad. Austin is at his mothers for the weekend, but Tom will talk to him Sunday night, and go through some past pay stubs. He's concerned now as well. He asked me to call him Monday.

Getting to the bottom of this will take a bit of time. But I'm going to get to the bottom non-the-less.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 12:29pm

Hi Pegg,
On his paycheck stub, what is the tip thing called?
Does it say allocated tip?
Does it show the tips as a positive and negative number? Like an in and out type of thing? (typically tips show as gross pay, but then are deducted almost like an employee advance from the paycheck because the employee already received it)

Is Dyl serving, or is he a bus-boy?

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 12:38pm

on 06/23/07 at 12:29:21, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:

He was a dishwasher only. However they list that also was a waitperson. (he wasn't and can't by law wait tables in a supper club).

as far as tips, it states "Reported tips" and "tips Deemed Wages".

How can he report tips he's never received? It's just pure BS to underpay the kid. Now I wonder if there are any fines or legal ramifications to the employer for this shit?

to add: It's a positive number for the tips.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by tanner on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 12:52pm

Bummer Redd :'(

Some things never change! the restaurant biz was pulling that crap when I was a kid washing dishes in Chicago back around the time of the fire ;;D

Do you have American Eagle Outfitter stores up there and if so would Dylan work retail? I know a certain well respected store manager down here (my kid) that would be happy to make the call and say just how well we know Dylan and what a great work ethic he has ;)

Hope the light is shining on you.......Tim

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 1:02pm

Nope No AEO stores near here. The local grocery store has a number of part time openings. One of the few places that still does at this time of year. So his chances of getting in are real good. I need to help him trim up his face, his beard is quite messy.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 1:26pm

on 06/23/07 at 12:38:18, Redd wrote:

Its kind of hard to explain this on a message board. Is there any way you can fax or email me a copy of a check stub? If not, can you re-type it so I can see the numbers?
It seems weird there is only 1 number for reported tips, rather than an 'in and out' on the check stub for tax purposes.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 1:53pm

on 06/23/07 at 13:26:25, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:

It shows

Dishwasher 6.08 hours Rate 6.50000 amount 39.52
Waitperson 10.33 hours Rate 2.3300 amount 24.07
Reported tips amount 29.13
Tips deemed wages amount 29.13

No minus signs in the list at all.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 2:07pm

Can you also tell what the taxes are for each one? He would prolly have 4 or 5 different types of taxes. Can you please tell me those and also the net pay?

Also, his paycheck says "waitperson", but he doesnt serve at all? Was he also washing dishes for the 10.33 hours?

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by UN solved on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 2:28pm

I'm almost positive that here in Indiana & in Kentucky, any person serving alcohol must be 21 and have a license from the ABC.

UNsolved

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by fubar on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 2:29pm

Wait a sec... did he work 16.41 hours, and they underpaid him for more than half of those hours? Are they saying he is a 'waitperson' during the time he is collecting the dishes to wash? Does he bus the tables as well as wash the dishes?

Wow... that whole thing looks like fraud with a cherry on top. If they are doing this as a regular thing, many employees could be involved, and the employer could be in a lot of hot water.

If he isn't getting any tips at all, where the hell do they even come up with the number? Pure creativity? Do you realize your son is responsible to pay taxes on those tips since they are reported as wages?

-Fu

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 2:34pm

on 06/23/07 at 14:07:41, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:

He was washing dishes for those 10.33 hours, yes. He's a minor, and so is tax exempt other than FICA med and FICA SS.

Deductions on this was FICA med---1.35 and FICA ss----5.74.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 2:38pm

on 06/23/07 at 14:29:37, fubar wrote:

Wait a sec... did he work 16.41 hours, and they underpaid him for more than half of those hours?

Are they saying he is a 'waitperson' during the time he is collecting the dishes to wash?

Thats what I appears.

Does he bus the tables as well as wash the dishes?

No

Wow... that whole thing looks like fraud with a cherry on top. If they are doing this as a regular thing, many employees could be involved, and the employer could be in a lot of hot water.

If he isn't getting any tips at all, where the hell do they even come up with the number? Pure creativity? Do you realize your son is responsible to pay taxes on those tips since they are reported as wages?

-Fu

I have called Austin's dad Tom and he is looking into Austin's pay stubs as well.

I would like to take this place down. A kid's first job and he gets cheated by the place. Could sure leave a bad taste and lack of trust for any employer ever again. I plan to seek justice for him somehow, just not sure how.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 2:41pm

on 06/23/07 at 14:28:05, UN solved wrote:

I'm almost positive that here in Indiana & in Kentucky, any person serving alcohol must be 21 and have a license from the ABC.

UNsolved

Waitpeople in IN and KY can transport on-premisis at 19. I have the map showing it. Alaska, Nevada and Utah they have to be 21.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 2:49pm

Ok, Pegg, so:
Sounds like Dyl is getting fucked. Not only is the employer paying him less than he should, the employer is also saving employer tax money by doing it this way.

Is min wage $6.50 where you are? If so, 1 charge is paying less than min wage, which is bad.
A slightly more complicated charge would be tax evasion. The employer is fucking the gov't out of FICA tax revenue by creative payroll accounting.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Jonny on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 3:01pm

Uh oh, somebodys got Redds thong in a twist.....let me know if anyone survives hurricaine Pegg......LOL ;;D

Kick some ass, baby! [smiley=bigguns.gif]

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Rosybabe on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 3:06pm

They have a "Tip pool" , everyone who gets a tip (read waitresses) puts it inside this pool and then it is divided among all the workers, specially those who get paid less than the minimum. Your soon gets less money this way. The employer pays less because your son's salary is being paid by the customers, it is a nasty business trick. I worked as a Hostess at a restaurant and they worked the salaries that way too. I never got tips however my whole salary was tip base. tell him to move to the grocery store business or as an office boy for a company.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 3:08pm

If Tom finds the same things on Austin's pay stubs, I'll have a partner to take this task on with.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by tanner on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 3:20pm

Hey Girl, it looks to me like you ahve a whole bunch of "partners" 8)

We can bad vibe and write letters enough to make the sucker who messed with Pegg's boy Real sorry!!!

....P,L&L.....Tim

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Lobster on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 4:15pm

If the employer is misreporting earnings with the intent of reducing his tax burden, you may be able to report him to the IRS in return for a sizable reward.

Is this a chain of eateries? Has the owner been misreporting for years? If so, it may be big enough to make it worthwhile.

A tax-evasion whistle-blower can, best case, get 30% of the recovered tax and penalties. The more doco and evidence you have, the larger your payout.

http://www.latimes.com/business/taxes/la-fi-perfin25feb25,1,458907.column?coll=la-headlines-business-taxes

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 23^rd, 2007, 4:39pm

You'd have to check your state, but in Oregon cheating an employee out of earned wages is a stiffer penalty than tax fraud.

The employee walks on water here.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 25^th, 2007, 12:08pm

Playing phone tag with WI DWD right now.

Arrrrgggggg I hate government agencies.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by fubar on Jun 25^th, 2007, 2:08pm

Please update us when you can... I'm curious if those bastards will have to pay.

If not, I want to know how they get away with paying below the federal minimum wage (for anything, even if they call it 'waitperson')

More importantly, how do they get away with reporting income that never happened for your son.

This all sounds like a wider problem with the employer, and if it is, you can get serious rewards for blowing the whistle on them. You can get up to 10% of any taxes and penalties that end up being paid.

It also sounds like a good case for a class-action lawsuit against the employer.

-Fu

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 26^th, 2007, 9:18am

Fu,
Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but in most states (not sure of how many or which ones), if an employee earns tips, the employer can pay less than minimum wage. HOWEVER, and here's the catch, with tips added in, the pay is supposed to equal the minimum wage.

'darlin

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by fubar on Jun 26^th, 2007, 1:35pm

I don't care how they come up with the number as long as it is legal. It doesn't sound to me like he got any tips, so reporting that he did can't be right. If they do it as a normal course of business (report wages fraudulantly) they could be criminally liable way beyond your son's case.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 26^th, 2007, 3:18pm

I spoke to the DWD yesterday and to Dad last night. First he wanted to just take the stubs over to the employer and ask them to correct the mistake. I told him that the DWD want's to file the wage claim themselves, and requested copies of both stubs.

I asked what the first pay stub said. He read off Wait training. I asked him if Dyl "ever" wore the required dress code clothes of any wait or bus person to work. He said no. I know he never wore the required dress code from my home either.

I then explained that 2 pay stubs showing this, was hardly an innocent mistake, and that the DWD wants copies of the stubs faxed to them. There is still the issue of the upcoming check as well. Who knows what it will show.

Agreed with FU that fraudulant wage reporting appears to be the case here, and with the documentation I provide the DWD there is grounds for further investigation.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by DennisM1045 on Jun 26^th, 2007, 3:55pm

One of my boys has worked second jobs waiting tables, cooking in the kitchen and greeting and seating. He was always paid less when he logged hours waiting tables because of tips. They pay those bussing tables less because the wait staff is supposed to share tips with them. This was in both MA and NH.

So long as he wasn’t bussing tables you’ve got a case for some back-wages and the restaurant is going to be hurting with the DWD. Good luck…

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by fubar on Jun 26^th, 2007, 4:14pm

Stick with the DWD... they should enjoy 'auditing' that employer.

I was employed by one of those companies that thought it was getting away with murder because we were all a bunch of 'kids'. I'll tell you what... we got huge checks at the end of one very long, hot summer. The employer had us all working 12-14 hour days, 7 days a week, with no overtime or scheduled breaks. You should have seen the penalty he paid. It put him out of business, but he did not deserve to be in business in the first place.

We were all ignorant of labor law. All it took was one informed person and the party was over for that a-h-o-l-e. Taking advantage of kids is reason enough to shut him down. The government don't take to kindly to the tax-evasion aspect either.

-Fu

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 26^th, 2007, 7:30pm

I plan on it Shawn.

I can't believe that his father would want to simply "ask nicely" for the wages to be re-figured..what a twit.

Least Dyl is able to cash the check he did get and have some pocket money even though it's about 20 bucks less than what he should have.

May not be a big deal to us, but 20 bucks to a 16 year old is a good icecream date with the GF.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Jonny on Jun 26^th, 2007, 8:02pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX-03Sf1wDo

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Jonny on Jun 26^th, 2007, 9:33pm

I for one have a $100 if anyone can show me this LAW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu1Mkaj1UzI

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Paul98 on Jun 26^th, 2007, 9:52pm

Pegg-

You should have everything documented and then take it to the state labor dep. and the state tax agency. I think you could almost sit back at that point and watch the fun. They would probably shut the place down or at minimum yank their liquor licence.

Good luck and kick their ass!

-P.

Title: Re: Research assistance needed.
Post by Redd on Jun 26^th, 2007, 10:21pm

Thanks Paul....

And thanks Jonny....the links were quite intersting.

Paul, I've learned more from this group than research alone could have taught me. Dyl is still due another check, and I'll be calling tomorrow to get that on the ball. Dyl gave 2 weeks notice and they let him go right away. There isanother issue in this that they told his frind Austin, but didn't inform Dylan. That is a violation of something I'm sure. You don't (as an employer) leave it to a minor co-worker to inform a friend that they are no longer employed.