Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        New Message Board Archives >> 2007 General Board Posts >> Drug Testing
        
(Message started by: medic1852 on Jun 12th, 2007, 9:48am)
Title: Drug Testing
Post by medic1852 on Jun 12th, 2007, 9:48am
Like a lot of folks in America, I have a job. I work they pay me. I pay taxes and the government distributes my taxes as they see fit.

In order to get that paycheck I am required to pass a random drug test, which I have no problem with.

What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass the drug test.

Shouldn't one have to pass a drug test to get a welfare check, becasue I hve to pass one to earn it for them.

Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on thier feet.

I do, on the other hand have a problem with helping someone sit on thier ass using my taxes to get high.

Could you imagine how much money the government would save  if people had to pass a drug test to get a public assistance check.

Rodger
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Karla on Jun 12th, 2007, 9:52am
I agree with you 100%.

I had to add a point.  Not all people who collect wellfare sit on there butts.  Case:  20 years ago my husband and I were married with 3 kids.   We both worked full time jobs.  These jobs were min. wage jobs because that is all we couild get without more than a high school diploma.  This after the conception and birth of my third child motivated me to go to college.  All the grants and loan money that I needed to pay for child care, tuitiion, books, fees , etc was used up we had lost all food stamps and medical assistance.  My parents fed us for 2 years and then I graduated from college and then put my husband thru collage and he graduated 2 years latter and we were making more money than before.

Point is not all people on welfare just sit on there buts.  But I know I had friends that just sat on there buts having more and more kids.  And did drugs.  I think that is an abuse of the system.  There do need to be some checks and balances.    
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by jimmers on Jun 12th, 2007, 9:59am
Absofrickinlutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good point,

Jimmers
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 12th, 2007, 10:08am
Yes, however, that would infringe upon their rights to get high, and their right to collect money for nuthin.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by medic1852 on Jun 12th, 2007, 10:12am

on 06/12/07 at 09:52:47, Karla wrote:
I agree with you 100%.

I had to add a point.  Not all people who collect wellfare sit on there butts.  Case:  20 years ago my husband and I were married with 3 kids.   We both worked full time jobs.  These jobs were min. wage jobs because that is all we couild get without more than a high school diploma.  This after the conception and birth of my third child motivated me to go to college.  All the grants and loan money that I needed to pay for child care, tuitiion, books, fees , etc was used up we had lost all food stamps and medical assistance.  My parents fed us for 2 years and then I graduated from college and then put my husband thru collage and he graduated 2 years latter and we were making lots and lots of money.

Point is not all people on welfare just sit on there buts.  But I know I had friends that just sat on there buts having more and more kids.  And did drugs.  I think that is an abuse of the system.  There do need to be some checks and balances.    


Yes Karla. My oldest sister worked as a waitress raised 3 kids and put herself through college with the aidof welfare. So I do know there are instances and circumstances.
But also there should be checks and balances.
Rodger
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by jimmers on Jun 12th, 2007, 10:40am
For 12 years I was self employed and had to pay double Social Security taxes. When I become of age to collect SS, will I get double the usual amount for 12 years? (Sarcasm)

Jimmers
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Brewcrew on Jun 12th, 2007, 10:47am

on 06/12/07 at 10:08:14, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Yes, however, that would infringe upon their rights to get high, and their right to collect money for nuthin.

...and their chicks for free.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by kcopelin on Jun 12th, 2007, 10:53am
I always thought it would be interesting if we got to decide what our tax money was spent on.....
oh, wait, that's why we vote-supposedly we vote for the folks who agree with us on how to spend money.
Unless a celebrity is running...in which case we vote based on watching reruns of "The Terminator" 1-15.  :o

If I was king of the forest (which I'm not) I would make every elected official memorize the Preamble to our Constitution-life liberty and the pursuit of hapiness (pursuit implies effort). That government governs best which governs least.  Think that was Ben Franklin?

PFDAN y'all
kathy
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Redd on Jun 12th, 2007, 11:25am

on 06/12/07 at 10:47:17, Brewcrew wrote:
...and their chicks for free.


and their chicks checks for free.

Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by jimmers on Jun 12th, 2007, 12:05pm
[smiley=laugh.gif]

Good one Peg!

Jimmers
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Brewcrew on Jun 12th, 2007, 12:11pm
VERY good one!!! [smiley=crackup.gif]
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 12th, 2007, 1:02pm
If your welfare is like our welfare, the amount of money that a person gets would probably be enough to buy illegal drugs for about a week.  Studies have shown that the vast majority of people in American who are on welfare are white females with children.  Although I have not found any information about illegal drug use among welfare receipients in America, I think that it would be the same as the general population.  What should be done if, for instance, a mother with children who is getting welfare tests positive for some drug?  Should the money be stopped and then let the family live on the streets and starve?  We have similar stereotypes over here about people on welfare, but they are not true; also, they tend to be aimed at non-Caucasian people and I imagine that the same is true in your country.  Living on welfare is not fun and most people would rather have a job, but for various, legitimate reasons, they cannot work.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 12th, 2007, 1:45pm

on 06/12/07 at 13:02:59, klusterkopf wrote:
If your welfare is like our welfare, the amount of money that a person gets would probably be enough to buy illegal drugs for about a week.  Studies have shown that the vast majority of people in American who are on welfare are white females with children.  Although I have not found any information about illegal drug use among welfare receipients in America, I think that it would be the same as the general population.  What should be done if, for instance, a mother with children who is getting welfare tests positive for some drug?  Should the money be stopped and then let the family live on the streets and starve?  We have similar stereotypes over here about people on welfare, but they are not true; also, they tend to be aimed at non-Caucasian people and I imagine that the same is true in your country.  Living on welfare is not fun and most people would rather have a job, but for various, legitimate reasons, they cannot work.

Hate to rain on your parade, but in the good old US welfare has become a way of life for some people. We have 4th generation welfare receiptants and they don't know any other existance. Sad but true.

And the kids don't get the money for food, clothing and shelter. They're become runners and addicts at young ages. Our welfare system is way out of whack. It's been broke a long time. Back when I was a kid, it was looked down upon. Today it seems to be a status symbol.

I know several people on food stamps who SELL their food stamps to buy drugs. And I'm not saying that I don't buy them for half price. someone is going to. Why shouldn't I get some of my tax dollars back?

And I DO think drug test should be administered BEFORE the checks are handed out.

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 12th, 2007, 2:25pm

on 06/12/07 at 13:45:27, BarbaraD wrote:
And the kids don't get the money for food, clothing and shelter. They're become runners and addicts at young ages. Our welfare system is way out of whack. It's been broke a long time. Back when I was a kid, it was looked down upon. Today it seems to be a status symbol.

I know several people on food stamps who SELL their food stamps to buy drugs. And I'm not saying that I don't buy them for half price. someone is going to. Why shouldn't I get some of my tax dollars back?

And I DO think drug test should be administered BEFORE the checks are handed out.

Hugs BD


What percentage of welfare receipients' children sell drugs or become drug runners?  You make blanket statements about how terrible the people who get welfare are, yet YOU engage in a CRIMINAL ACTIVITY by purchasing their food stamps for a discount!  How can you complain about the drug use of others when YOU are one of the people giving them the money to buy the drugs?  You say you buy them because if you didn't someone else would-essentially, you are committing a crime, fostering drug use and justifying it because someone else would do it?  Your lack of morality and your justification of it are amazing.  I do not think that you are in any position to criticize the behaviors of others until you clean your own house; you are taking the food out a some child's mouth so that you can save a few dollars.  How sad that one can sell one's self respect and decency for such a low price and how hypocritical to condemn others for breaking the law when you are a lawbreaker yourself.  Don't complain the next time that some drug related crime is committed because YOU aided that person, were an accomplise.  How hypocritical and sad. Look in the mirror and see what a criminal looks like.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 12th, 2007, 2:46pm

on 06/12/07 at 14:25:41, klusterkopf wrote:
How hypocritical and sad. Look in the mirror and see what a criminal looks like.


Heidi is feisty today!!!!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by vietvet2tours on Jun 12th, 2007, 4:28pm
Let's start with our elected officials.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by artonio7 on Jun 12th, 2007, 4:58pm

on 06/12/07 at 14:25:41, klusterkopf wrote:
What percentage of welfare receipients' children sell drugs or become drug runners?  You make blanket statements about how terrible the people who get welfare are, yet YOU engage in a CRIMINAL ACTIVITY by purchasing their food stamps for a discount!  How can you complain about the drug use of others when YOU are one of the people giving them the money to buy the drugs?  You say you buy them because if you didn't someone else would-essentially, you are committing a crime, fostering drug use and justifying it because someone else would do it?  Your lack of morality and your justification of it are amazing.  I do not think that you are in any position to criticize the behaviors of others until you clean your own house; you are taking the food out a some child's mouth so that you can save a few dollars.  How sad that one can sell one's self respect and decency for such a low price and how hypocritical to condemn others for breaking the law when you are a lawbreaker yourself.  Don't complain the next time that some drug related crime is committed because YOU aided that person, were an accomplise.  How hypocritical and sad. Look in the mirror and see what a criminal looks like.


STFU TROLL!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by catlind on Jun 12th, 2007, 5:18pm

on 06/12/07 at 14:25:41, klusterkopf wrote:
What percentage of welfare receipients' children sell drugs or become drug runners?  You make blanket statements about how terrible the people who get welfare are, yet YOU engage in a CRIMINAL ACTIVITY by purchasing their food stamps for a discount!  How can you complain about the drug use of others when YOU are one of the people giving them the money to buy the drugs?  You say you buy them because if you didn't someone else would-essentially, you are committing a crime, fostering drug use and justifying it because someone else would do it?  Your lack of morality and your justification of it are amazing.  I do not think that you are in any position to criticize the behaviors of others until you clean your own house; you are taking the food out a some child's mouth so that you can save a few dollars.  How sad that one can sell one's self respect and decency for such a low price and how hypocritical to condemn others for breaking the law when you are a lawbreaker yourself.  Don't complain the next time that some drug related crime is committed because YOU aided that person, were an accomplise.  How hypocritical and sad. Look in the mirror and see what a criminal looks like.



You're from Germany supposedly, how the hell do you know what is and isn't legal in the state of Texas?  I find it hard to believe you managed to brush up on the entirety of Texas law in such a short amount of time.

Until you come and live here, I suggest you watch your judgements of those who do.  

Many of your posts are borderline criminal in my opinion, so take your own advice and look in the mirror.  You appear to be more of a danger than Barb ever could be.

Cat
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 12th, 2007, 5:49pm

on 06/12/07 at 16:28:14, vietvet2tours wrote:
Let's start with our elected officials.


I agree-ours too!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 12th, 2007, 5:54pm

on 06/12/07 at 16:58:46, artonio7 wrote:
STFU TROLL!!!!!!!!


The elegance of your reply astounds me.  So you approve of criminal activity as long as the criminal is a friend of yours, yes?
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Jonny on Jun 12th, 2007, 5:57pm

on 06/12/07 at 17:54:13, klusterkopf wrote:
The elegance of your reply astounds me.  So you approve of criminal activity as long as the criminal is a friend of yours, yes?


STFU TROLL!!!!!!!  :-*
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Linda_Howell on Jun 12th, 2007, 6:01pm

 Heidi or whatever his name is this month has been chomping at the bit for a few weeks now waiting to start a war here.  I've been watching and waiting for it and here it is.

His/her other posts didn't get too much of a reaction so he/she backed off.

   Please everyone...ignore
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 12th, 2007, 6:05pm

on 06/12/07 at 17:18:45, catlind wrote:
You're from Germany supposedly, how the hell do you know what is and isn't legal in the state of Texas?  I find it hard to believe you managed to brush up on the entirety of Texas law in such a short amount of time.

Until you come and live here, I suggest you watch your judgements of those who do.  

Many of your posts are borderline criminal in my opinion, so take your own advice and look in the mirror.  You appear to be more of a danger than Barb ever could be.

Cat


I know that it is criminal to buy foodstamps from people on the street for whatever price and then to use them for yourself.  That is not Texas law, but law in the entire United States.  If you do something that you know is illegal, isn't that a crime with intent?  If you know that the money will be used to purchase drugs, isn't that somewhat criminal?  I imagine that whichever merchant takes the illegally obtained food stamps knows that they are illegal because, I believe, to use them one must have some proof that the user is the legal recipient of the stamps, so there is more criminal activity on the part of the merchant, but perhaps the law is different if you are Caucasian rather than Black or Hispanic in Texas?  Please let me know.  Danke schoen, gnadige Frau.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Jonny on Jun 12th, 2007, 6:26pm
For the benefit of new people klusterkopf/Heidi/John is our resident troll. He serves no purpose except to confuse, obfuscate and distress posters while providing a wealth of misinformation of his own.
 
The best response to him is no response. All we do is inform people as best we can that his posts are unsound.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by vietvet2tours on Jun 12th, 2007, 6:33pm

on 06/12/07 at 18:05:57, klusterkopf wrote:
I know that it is criminal to buy foodstamps from people on the street for whatever price and then to use them for yourself.  That is not Texas law, but law in the entire United States.  If you do something that you know is illegal, isn't that a crime with intent?  If you know that the money will be used to purchase drugs, isn't that somewhat criminal?  I imagine that whichever merchant takes the illegally obtained food stamps knows that they are illegal because, I believe, to use them one must have some proof that the user is the legal recipient of the stamps, so there is more criminal activity on the part of the merchant, but perhaps the law is different if you are Caucasian rather than Black or Hispanic in Texas?  Please let me know.  Danke schoen, gnadige Frau.
 I'm with the troll on this.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by medic1852 on Jun 12th, 2007, 6:38pm
Klusterkopf, I am not going to play your game. This post was not racial or anything until you made it that way it was just a statement about drug testing and taxes. So dont try and highjack my threads. I am no newbie to this and wont play that game I was born at night but not last night.

Rodger >:(
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 12th, 2007, 7:03pm
One needs to differentiate between those who get food stamps and those who get welfare.  They are not the same programs and each has entirely different income requirements (although both programs are handled from the same office).  The breakdown is as followes:  SSI-a federally administered program for the elderly, blind, and disabled.  And then, I think what most people here are talking about is AFDC or Aid To Families With Dependent Children (and maybe some cases of SSI).

The U.S. government provides welfare in a number of basic ways. Some programs distribute direct cash assistance that recipients may spend as they choose. Other programs provide specific goods, such as public housing; or the means to obtain them, such as subsidized rents, vouchers to offset private housing costs, or coupons to purchase food. Still others provide services or the means to obtain services. Welfare services include health care, childcare, and help coping with drug or alcohol dependency. Goods and services, as opposed to direct cash assistance, are known as in-kind benefits. Other welfare programs create or subsidize jobs for the unemployed. In addition, the government also provides a tax discount to the poor, known as an Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), which some people consider a welfare program. If calculated as an expenditure—although it is in part actually money the government does not collect—EITC is one of the more costly U.S. welfare programs, with expenditures exceeding $30 billion annually.

When you talk of *welfare* or AFDC, the percentages of who recieves what changes greatly from those statistics of who is on Foodstamps.

The following data is from 2005 and I'll just give the totals broken down by ethnicity.

Native American or Alaskan Native-1%.
Asian                                             -1%
Black/African American-------------- 44%
Native Hawaiian/Pacific---------------1%
White-----------------------------------41%
Multi-racial-------------------------------1%
Invalid/Not reported-----------------30%
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by thebbz on Jun 12th, 2007, 8:01pm
Most people make money the old fashioned way...they earn it.
They also support those who cant or wont. Drug testing, public work projects, education programs, ect, should all be employed to at least give the welfare receipient some self respect. This would help with breaking the generational welfare syndrome.
There are many on welfare because they dont want to work.
Lets just give welfare to US Citizens that would save a bunch.

dumbkoph: go back to your corner commrade
jb ;;D
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Jonny on Jun 12th, 2007, 8:07pm

on 06/12/07 at 20:01:08, thebbz wrote:
Most people make money the old fashioned way...they earn it.
They also support those who cant or wont. Drug testing, public work projects, education programs, ect, should all be employed to at least give the welfare receipient some self respect. This would help with breaking the generational welfare syndrome.
There are many on welfare because they dont want to work.
Lets just give welfare to US Citizens that would save a bunch.

dumbkoph: go back to your corner commrade
jb ;;D


Well said, bro....every damn word!!!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by john_d on Jun 12th, 2007, 8:36pm
I like the idea of drug-testing welfare recepients if only it did not just mean spending more money on them.   I think they should just legalize drugs, they are going to do them anyway and our tax dollars will stop being spent on a dead-end drug war but rather gain tax revenue by taxing the idiots killings themselves rather than spending money trying to stop them.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 12th, 2007, 9:06pm
It's been tried and legally controversial and again implemented in some form in Michigan




Agreement reached on FIA drug testing pilot; An outcome of ACLU lawsuit on FIA drug testing policy    

December 18 , 2003

The settlement is the result of a 1999 lawsuit challenging Michigan's welfare drug testing policy. The policy resulted from legislation enacted by the Michigan Legislature in 1999. An initial pilot project was halted in 2000 when Federal District Court granted the ACLU's motion for a preliminary injunction. The ACLU alleged the policy violated plaintiffs' 4th Amendment rights because the testing was not "suspicion based."

http://www.michigan.gov/dhs/0,1607,7-124-5459_7342_7927_8034-83211--,00.html







WELFARE RECIPIENTS COULD BE TESTED FOR ILLEGAL DRUGS

ACLU Wonders If Proposal Is What It Agreed to With State

September 24, 2004

LANSING -- Welfare recipients could be required to take a drug test to continue receiving state aid under legislation on its way to the state House.

The bill approved Wednesday by the House Family and Children Services Committee would allow the Family Independence Agency to require a drug test if one of its employees has probable cause to suspect a recipient of substance abuse.

It's the first time the Legislature has taken up the issue since the American Civil Liberties Union and the state reached a settlement to end their four-year dispute over the state's 1999 pilot program to drug test all welfare recipients.  The agreement followed an April 2003 ruling by the U.S.  6th Circuit Court of Appeals that said the drug-testing program violated the Fourth Amendment.

The agreement only would allow people suspected by a professional of having a drug problem to be subject to a test.  The determination would be made, in part, by drug-use surveys filled out by welfare recipients.


http://www.jointogether.org/news/headlines/inthenews/2004/mich-moves-to-require-drug-of.html
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Jonny on Jun 12th, 2007, 9:17pm

on 06/12/07 at 21:06:45, Kevin_M wrote:
 The determination would be made, in part, by drug-use surveys filled out by welfare recipients.


What a fucking joke!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 12th, 2007, 9:24pm

on 06/12/07 at 21:17:33, Jonny wrote:
What a fucking joke!


After reading it and coming to that last sentence, I thought WTF too.    ;;D



That's why I wrote "implemented in some form"    ;)
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by stevegeebe on Jun 12th, 2007, 10:08pm
I truely believe that the whole concept of Mr. Johnson's "Great Society" was a realization that, like Defence and Road Building, (what Government is only charged to do), that paying people off to just shut up and have some money on us, is ultimately what was deciced upon.

Now, several trillion dollars later, its law.

Steve G
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by BlueMeanie on Jun 12th, 2007, 10:56pm

on 06/12/07 at 13:45:27, BarbaraD wrote:
And the kids don't get the money for food, clothing and shelter. They're become runners and addicts at young ages.

Huh ????

Back when I was a kid, it was looked down upon. Today it seems to be a status symbol.

[smiley=huh.gif]

I know several people on food stamps who SELL their food stamps to buy drugs. And I'm not saying that I don't buy them for half price.

Stealing not only from the Government, but from poor people.  :(

Why shouldn't I get some of my tax dollars back?

::)



Do you realize you can ONLY buy FOOD with food stamps ? Do you realize you cannot make more than minimum wage or you loose your food stamps ? Do you realize people sell 1/2 their food stamps so they can purchase 1/2 the amount of food and use the other 1/2 for items such as tampons, a hair brush, gasoline, or bus ticket to get to the store. Maybe to give the kids a treat at McDonalds once a month etc, etc.

Have you ever lost a father at 8 years old with 8 kids and tried surviving ? Have you ever had your dad walk out at age 2 and never return leaving your family to fend for themselves ? Have you ever had a spouse who committed a crime and is in jail leaving you alone and hungry ? Do you realize that not ALL people on food programs are crackheads.

I grew up in one of the poorest neighborhoods  in my area and lived the life in which you are bashing and its' not all what you think. I bet your glad and fortunate  you didn't need support along the way.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 12th, 2007, 11:08pm

on 06/12/07 at 22:56:40, BlueMeanie wrote:
Do you realize you can ONLY buy FOOD with food stamps ? Do you realize you cannot make more than minimum wage or you loose your food stamps ? Do you realize people sell 1/2 their food stamps so they can purchase 1/2 the amount of food and use the other 1/2 for items such as tampons, a hair brush, gasoline, or bus ticket to get to the store. Maybe to give the kids a treat at McDonalds once a month etc, etc.

Have you ever lost a father at 8 years old with 8 kids and tried surviving ? Have you ever had your dad walk out at age 2 and never return leaving your family to fend for themselves ? Have you ever had a spouse who committed a crime and is in jail leaving you alone and hungry ? Do you realize that not ALL people on food programs are crackheads.

I grew up in one of the poorest neighborhoods  in my area and lived the life in which you are bashing and its' not all what you think. I bet your glad and fortunate  you didn't need support along the way.


I dont think anyone would argue the points you make.  However, there are 2 sides to everything.  The examples you gave were of people in need getting services they need.  Nobody says this is a bad thing.

Milking the system and being on it for year after year after year and even generation after generation is not what the programs were set up for.  They were set up as a safety net, not for the poor, but for those temporary occasions when life is a little tough for all Americans.  

Just like if you tripped and fell down, I would extend my hand and help you up.  It doesn't mean that I am going to hoist you over my shoulder and carry you for the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by BlueMeanie on Jun 12th, 2007, 11:23pm
I do understand what your saying $$man, BUT, when you have people making stereotype statements about  people in need, and on top of that admitting to taking advantage of them, I think its' uncalled for.

Sure there is always going to be some that take advantage of the system, but I don't believe for a minute that ALL are like that. Most of the people I have known back in the day of food stamps are now on their own and are doing good without aid, and are very grateful for the assistance along the way.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 13th, 2007, 8:45am
Again, everyone is lumping the Food Stamp Program in with *welfare* and they are NOT the same programs!  In the state of Louisiana, Food Stamps are no longer *stamps*, it is a plastic card with a set amount of money.  I do agree with BlueMeanie about those who sell their foodstamps so they can buy other essentials, HOWEVER, there are those who sell their foodstamps for other things or trade them for things, such as cigarettes or liquor.

When most people talk about the *welfare* families, they aren't referring to those that receive *stamps*, but those who are receivng a cash subsidy from the government (that would be AFDC or Aid To Families With Dependent Children).

I have absolutely no problem with the FoodStamp program for the most part.  I do have a problem with AFDC because it tends to enable people NOT to have incentive to find a job.  

Speaking of drug testing, why should those who get welfare have to be drug tested when we don't require our own senators, representatives and other govermental officials to be subjected to random drug tests?  Who would be the most important person to test, those that get a piddling monthly check (and most don't get a whole lot of money) or those who decide how the billions of dollars the government has is going to be spent?
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 13th, 2007, 8:54am

on 06/12/07 at 09:48:09, medic1852 wrote:
Shouldn't one have to pass a drug test to get a welfare check, becasue I hve to pass one to earn it for them.



This was the original question.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 13th, 2007, 9:01am

on 06/13/07 at 08:45:06, deltadarlin wrote:
Again, everyone is lumping the Food Stamp Program in with *welfare* and they are NOT the same programs!  In the state of Louisiana, Food Stamps are no longer *stamps*, it is a plastic card with a set amount of money.  I do agree with BlueMeanie about those who sell their foodstamps so they can buy other essentials, HOWEVER, there are those who sell their foodstamps for other things or trade them for things, such as cigarettes or liquor.

When most people talk about the *welfare* families, they aren't referring to those that receive *stamps*, but those who are receivng a cash subsidy from the government (that would be AFDC or Aid To Families With Dependent Children).

I have absolutely no problem with the FoodStamp program for the most part.  I do have a problem with AFDC because it tends to enable people NOT to have incentive to find a job.  

Speaking of drug testing, why should those who get welfare have to be drug tested when we don't require our own senators, representatives and other govermental officials to be subjected to random drug tests?  Who would be the most important person to test, those that get a piddling monthly check (and most don't get a whole lot of money) or those who decide how the billions of dollars the government has is going to be spent?


I agree with most of what you wrote, Delta.  I do not believe that most people on aid do so because they are  lazy-in your statement, you wrote that they "get a piddling monthly check (and most don't get a whole lot of money)".  I think that in your country that the people on welfare get enough to pay the rent and just enough to cover basic, very basic, essentials, such as food as they do here.  It is not a lifestyle that most people, including those who receive the money, want to live.  There also tends to be a racist view about those who are receiving aid-over here it is the Turks and Arabs and Africans and in your country the Blacks and Hispanics when, as a previous post pointed out, there are more Caucasians on welfare.  

Unfortunately, when someone who abuses the system, such as having a good paying job and collecting the welfare, then many people wrongly assume that most of the aid receipients are corrupt.  Most importantly, I think that the people who will illegally buy the food stamps at a discount foster corruption and are just as guilty of a crime as are those who collect the benefits illegally.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 13th, 2007, 9:08am

on 06/13/07 at 08:45:06, deltadarlin wrote:
I do have a problem with AFDC because it tends to enable people NOT to have incentive to find a job.


There was welfare reform in the late 90's under Clinton.  Michigan was quick to jump on it.  I think what has changed here is that, it is provided for five years but you must have a job within two years.  
 
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 13th, 2007, 9:23am
I always knew that trolls didn't know how to read!  klusterkopf proves just that fact with the following statement, " in your country the Blacks and Hispanics when, as a previous post pointed out, there are more Caucasians on welfare."!  There are more non-whites on welfare than whites.  Where the balance shifts is the Food Stamp program, where there are more whites than non-whites.

Since klusterkopf doesn't live in the US (I understand most trolls live in the mountains in Romania), he really needs to do some indepth research on the US and quit reading the comic books at the newsstand.

Welfare itself is creates a situation where it is better to stay at home and have babies rather than try to work.  Welfare to work didn't work because there is a clause in most programs that enable the welfare recipient to stay home as long as there is a child under school age.

There are families who have been in the welfare system for generations (and those generations are not as age worthy as you might think, when you consider that there was a case where a 26 year old woman was becoming a grandmother because her 13 year old was having a baby).

Regardless of what some people might think, welfare is a hand out not a hand up.  AND, like I said in my previous post, why test those who receive the money when we don't test those who are reponsible for voting on/deciding how/where/when this money is spent?

Several years ago, in this state, random drug testing was implemented for all state employees.  Guess who was exempted?  Why, it was all our elected officials and those whom they appoint!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 13th, 2007, 10:53am

on 06/13/07 at 09:23:27, deltadarlin wrote:
I always knew that trolls didn't know how to read!  klusterkopf proves just that fact with the following statement, " in your country the Blacks and Hispanics when, as a previous post pointed out, there are more Caucasians on welfare."!  There are more non-whites on welfare than whites.  Where the balance shifts is the Food Stamp program, where there are more whites than non-whites.

Since klusterkopf doesn't live in the US (I understand most trolls live in the mountains in Romania), he really needs to do some indepth research on the US and quit reading the comic books at the newsstand.

Welfare itself is creates a situation where it is better to stay at home and have babies rather than try to work.  Welfare to work didn't work because there is a clause in most programs that enable the welfare recipient to stay home as long as there is a child under school age.

There are families who have been in the welfare system for generations (and those generations are not as age worthy as you might think, when you consider that there was a case where a 26 year old woman was becoming a grandmother because her 13 year old was having a baby).

Regardless of what some people might think, welfare is a hand out not a hand up.  AND, like I said in my previous post, why test those who receive the money when we don't test those who are reponsible for voting on/deciding how/where/when this money is spent?

Several years ago, in this state, random drug testing was implemented for all state employees.  Guess who was exempted?  Why, it was all our elected officials and those whom they appoint!


You should check the statistics presented-since Caucasians outnumber every other racial group in the US, the percentage of Caucasions receiving aid, in terms of numbers of people receiving aid, would still outnumber all of the other racial groups even if they all received aid.

I noticed, in your attack on me, that you did not address the issue of people, who are not on welfare, purchasing food stamps at a discount from those who receive them.  I guess that such behaviour is OK with you if the person who does it is a friend, yes?  Thank you for revealing your double standard and racism.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by LeLimey on Jun 13th, 2007, 11:25am
For the benefit of new people klusterkopf/ pisskopf/Scheissekopf/pimmelkopf  is our resident troll.  

He serves no purpose except to confuse, obfuscate and distress posters while providing a wealth of misinformation of his own.  
   
The best response to him is no response. All we do is inform people as best we can that his posts are unsound.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by artonio7 on Jun 13th, 2007, 11:43am

on 06/13/07 at 11:25:39, LeLimey wrote:
For the benefit of new people klusterkopf/ pisskopf/Scheissekopf/pimmelkopf  is our resident troll.  

He serves no purpose except to confuse, obfuscate and distress posters while providing a wealth of misinformation of his own.  
   
The best response to him is no response. All we do is inform people as best we can that his posts are unsound.


Helen,

You are much too nice. I prefer the response to mr/ms trollikins to be a simple........



FUCK OFF TROLL!!!!!!

with warm regards,
Tony
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by john_d on Jun 13th, 2007, 12:25pm
If this is still CHTom running through his ejection/new avatar cycles I give him points for persistence, of course those same points can be applied to craziness.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by LeLimey on Jun 13th, 2007, 12:29pm

on 06/13/07 at 11:43:20, artonio7 wrote:
Helen,

You are much too nice. I prefer the response to mr/ms trollikins to be a simple........



FUCK OFF TROLL!!!!!!

with warm regards,
Tony


Umm Tony - you don't know what I said LOL I was NOT polite! Mind you have said that Mr John Skorohod is actually from New York not Germany anyway  ::)
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 13th, 2007, 1:47pm

on 06/13/07 at 10:53:45, klusterkopf wrote:
you did not address...   I guess that such behaviour is OK with you if the person who does it is a friend, yes?  Thank you for revealing your double standard and racism.


Because Delta did not take the conversation where "it" was trying to lead it, a deceptive guess was made that this reveals a double standard and racism, but that bend in deception was only done so the familiar reverting to women bashing again, name calling, and disruptive value could have it's day of satisfaction for "it".


Earlier in the thread an attempt was made in the form of an assumption disguised as a question, which in the English language can only be accomplished if it is for the sake of a deception.  


on 06/12/07 at 17:54:13, klusterkopf wrote:
So you approve of criminal activity as long as the criminal is a friend of yours, yes?


When that post did not get a bite, it was again infused into another post but with woman bashing and name calling included to get a response.  There is need for deceptively written words if "it" is to gradually build avenues into threads to reveal, extend, and expand a hatred for others and favorite, woman bashing, which both have been revealed over and over again during the half dozen times or so "it" has been self renamed or administratively deleted.




For the benefit of new people klusterkopf is our resident troll.  
 
He serves no purpose except to confuse, obfuscate and distress posters while providing a wealth of misinformation of his own.    
   
The best response to him is no response. All we do is inform people as best we can that his posts are unsound.

Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Charlie on Jun 13th, 2007, 6:52pm
Just two things:

Food Stamps is probably the most successful of the welfare programs. I've had personal experience.

Aside from a few abuses, the people who rail against the ACLU are always people that want to limit our freedoms.....it's far better to put up with some nonsense than to have to storm the Bastille to regain what we might lose without such groups.

The fundamentalist politicians have been after the ACLU for 30 years. These are dangerous people. The ACLU meets them at every turn.

I sure as hell don't want to live in a country run any more by them than it already is.

Charlie
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by KingOfPain on Jun 15th, 2007, 6:29pm
Rodger,
I totally agree, excellent point.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

on 06/12/07 at 14:25:41, klusterkopf wrote:
What percentage of welfare receipients' children sell drugs or become drug runners?  You make blanket statements about how terrible the people who get welfare are, yet YOU engage in a CRIMINAL ACTIVITY by purchasing their food stamps for a discount!  How can you complain about the drug use of others when YOU are one of the people giving them the money to buy the drugs?  You say you buy them because if you didn't someone else would-essentially, you are committing a crime, fostering drug use and justifying it because someone else would do it?  Your lack of morality and your justification of it are amazing.  I do not think that you are in any position to criticize the behaviors of others until you clean your own house; you are taking the food out a some child's mouth so that you can save a few dollars.  How sad that one can sell one's self respect and decency for such a low price and how hypocritical to condemn others for breaking the law when you are a lawbreaker yourself.  Don't complain the next time that some drug related crime is committed because YOU aided that person, were an accomplise.  How hypocritical and sad. Look in the mirror and see what a criminal looks like.


Well said.
As far as others comments/replies, I have seen it here many times... if you stand up for morality/decency & speak out on the right side of an issue it makes you a flame fest target &/or the moral bankrupt folks enemy.
So be it, I say.
I don't know you klusterkopf... I have no idea if you are a "troll" or not but on this subjects comments [quoted above] you are spot on. Hang in there klusterkopf.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Jonny on Jun 15th, 2007, 6:36pm

on 06/15/07 at 18:29:58, KingOfPain wrote:
Hang in there klusterkopf.


Oh great, fuel the troll...you know CHTom as well as the rest of us do, KOP!

Maybe your looking to throw gas on this fire...are you?

Not cool, man!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by thebbz on Jun 15th, 2007, 6:48pm
I am sorry Charlie but I think they ought to whiz quiz the idiots at the ACLU. ;;D As a younger man I was a big advocate of the ACLU but nowdays I wonder. [smiley=huh.gif] Too many agendas not in the best interest of the people they claim to help.
Why not drug test those who have child after child, abuse them by not taking care of them, and spend the money on themselves? This happens time after time. It's the kids that suffer. IN ALL COLORS! AFDC is where the money is at not food stamps hence the more abuse.
all the best
jb
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by klusterkopf on Jun 15th, 2007, 6:58pm

on 06/15/07 at 18:29:58, KingOfPain wrote:
Rodger,
I totally agree, excellent point.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well said.
As far as others comments/replies, I have seen it here many times... if you stand up for morality/decency & speak out on the right side of an issue it makes you a flame fest target &/or the moral bankrupt folks enemy.
So be it, I say.
I don't know you klusterkopf... I have no idea if you are a "troll" or not but on this subjects comments  you are spot on. Hang in there klusterkopf.


Thank you for speaking up, KOP and well done.

Kevin M, your convoluted reasoning in your post reminds me of someone with paranoid personality disorder-quite a bit of acrobatics to try to make some kind of point [smiley=huh.gif]!

I do not understand why some members try to drive someone off the board who has a different opinion and they try with either personal attacks or using swear words instead of presenting a coherent agrument.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Jonny on Jun 15th, 2007, 7:01pm
Thanks Steve, your a real fucking gem!
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by LeLimey on Jun 15th, 2007, 7:10pm
Like I just said, he goes from broken English to coherent even if it is a load of bollocks in the space of two posts.

He's a loser.  ::) But you know what? He loves us! He just can't stay away!

John you said you thought I had Tourettes before - well I didn't and I still don't - I just think you are an arsehole
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 15th, 2007, 8:02pm

on 06/15/07 at 18:58:43, klusterkopf wrote:
Kevin M, your convoluted reasoning in your post reminds me of someone with paranoid personality disorder-quite a bit of acrobatics to try to make some kind of point [smiley=huh.gif]!



And you of course have had time enough to pick it apart, show me the convoluted, the paranoid, and the acrobatics, or are these just words that you like to use to deride?  



Afterall, weren't these your words?


Quote:
try with either personal attacks or using swear words instead of presenting a coherent agrument.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by Brewcrew on Jun 15th, 2007, 8:04pm

on 06/15/07 at 20:02:16, Kevin_M wrote:
And you of course have had time enough to pick it apart, show me the convoluted, the paranoid, and the acrobatics, or are these just words that you like to use to deride?  

They're certainly not the words of someone for whom English is a second language.
Title: Re: Drug Testing
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 15th, 2007, 8:38pm
Why Kevin -- I didn't know you were convolted. All this time I thought you were just strange ;;D  Dumb me... ::)
Oh well, I love ya anyhow...

Hugs BD :-*


Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.