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Title: This is MADNESS Post by The mad viking on May 15th, 2007, 6:12am Texas mother arrested, accused of mutilating infant son’s genitals and blaming it on the dog By Associated Press Friday, May 11, 2007 - Updated: 06:26 PM EST HOUSTON - A mother who claimed the family dog tore off her baby son’s genitals was arrested Friday and accused of mutilating the boy herself with a sharp instrument. Katherine Nadal, 25, was led away in handcuffs while awaiting a court hearing on custody of the 3-month-old boy, Holden Gothia. She was charged with injury to a child and held on $100,000 bail. Child-welfare authorities said she told social workers she woke up from a nap March 13 to find that her small dachshund had attacked her son. But a veterinarian and a doctor agreed the dog did not cause the injuries, because there was no blood or human tissue on the animal or in its mouth, police said. Police said in court papers that the mother had used a sharp instrument to cut off the boy’s genitals. The instrument was not identified. Nadal’s attorney had no comment. Nadal had a history of prescription drug abuse and tested positive for cocaine and methadone the day after Holden was mutilated, authorities said. She has been forbidden to see her son since the injuries occurred in March. "Given what we know today, we will probably work toward terminating her parental rights and reuniting the child with his father or another relative," said Harris County Child Protective Services spokeswoman Estella Olguin. The baby has years of reconstructive surgery and other operations ahead of him, said Daniel Sanders, an attorney for Camden Gothia, the baby’s father. The dog has since been released by authorities and adopted. What in hell is wrong with people :( This i just insane.I just cant understand how anyone can do this :'( :'( >:( >:( Svenn |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by andrewjb on May 15th, 2007, 7:13am :'(, hopefully, its the fact that the media is everywhere. andrew, :'(. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Brewcrew on May 15th, 2007, 7:20am Some things simply elude comprehension. In a way, I'm glad I don't understand the "why" sometimes. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Lotus on May 15th, 2007, 8:25am Part of the "why" is that it takes effort and awareness and education to be good and to be kind. It is a lot easier to be cruel. Its just a matter of how cruel .... Annette |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by nani on May 15th, 2007, 9:16am on 05/15/07 at 08:25:22, Lotus wrote:
Are you saying this type of behavior falls within the "norm", and that cruelty to this degree is inherent in the human psyche? And that only through education and effort will we be able to resist acting in such a way? [smiley=huh.gif] I think Svenn's title nails it. MADNESS... as in post partum depression w/ psychotic features likely exacerbated by drug use. Normal people do not behave in this way. Psychiatry 101 /spelling |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by aprilbee on May 15th, 2007, 10:41am on 05/15/07 at 09:16:31, nani wrote:
Thanks Nani, I'm glad somebody addressed this....I absolutely 1000% believe the opposite of what Lotus/Annette said is true it is MUCH easier to be kind....where in the hell did that come from? and...what a horrible, awful, wretched, thing to happen....that poor boy, it just breaks my heart what he must have gone through....it makes me want to puke.... >:( :( |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Linda_Howell on May 15th, 2007, 11:11am Quote:
:o :o :o Good grief....what a premise. I don't agree with THAT at all!!!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by BarbaraD on May 15th, 2007, 11:58am This woman should be locked away forever 0r something bad done to her. This is totally insane, but she doesn't deserve rehabilitation. Where the hell is this going to end? Post partum depression my a$$! Too damn many names for just bad people! Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by nani on May 15th, 2007, 12:37pm on 05/15/07 at 11:58:01, BarbaraD wrote:
Yes, it is insane. That's where the "with psychotic features" comes into play. Who said anything about rehabilitation? Life in a state hospital is no better than prison. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by minnie on May 15th, 2007, 1:00pm on 05/15/07 at 06:12:11, The mad viking wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------- we will probably work toward terminating her parental rights W.T.F. ?? This should be a effen given.Then make sure all the other inmates KNOW exactly what she Minnie who can't effin stand ANYONE who would hurt a child or animal |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Charlie on May 15th, 2007, 2:07pm It is insane and of course a perfect case for sterilization along with a new booby hatch residence. Not to minimize this thing but things are not worse than in the past. They are likely better. 100 years ago....even a few decades ago, this kind of thing was rarely reported. People got away with most forms of child abuse, sexual abuse, beatings, and worse. However, as far devolved as tv news has gone in the manner of National Enquirer, this is a case where as much good as harm may result in that it makes it harder to get away with this stuff. Maybe. Insane it is. Charlie |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by testy01 on May 15th, 2007, 2:19pm I keep wondering how this woman had custody of a kid. She has a history of being a coke-head. On the other hand, I've heard some real horror stories about CPS yanking kids out of families for what I'd consider insufficient reasons. The woman herself is an absolute horror. Why-in-hell would she do something like that? Her taking cocaine is horrible but I've never heard of it making anyone do something like THAT. Jack |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by aprilbee on May 15th, 2007, 2:24pm on 05/15/07 at 14:19:41, testy01 wrote:
drugs on top of being a psycho....I wouldn't think it was JUST the coke or any one drug or thing fueling this situation....that's just MHO... ;) |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by BarbaraD on May 15th, 2007, 2:34pm Maybe we should start a drug testing and mental testing program for PARENTS! If you test positive for drugs or post partum depression get the kids away from them! We've got a society of psychos out there! Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by aprilbee on May 15th, 2007, 2:58pm on 05/15/07 at 14:34:24, BarbaraD wrote:
or "significant others of parents" we had a little girl here in Oklahoma who was beat to death by her stepfather....he and the baby's mother are both going to rot in jail, but that poor baby she never stood a chance!...they showed pictures of her with casts on her legs, etc and the State let her go back... well I'll just let you read http://kelsey-briggs.memory-of.com/ its sick sick sick...there are people out there who would have loved these children and never done them a second's harm...and these people CAN'T have children....how messed up is that? Why do these loving people who dream of raising a family then they can't have children? and the most devient, sonofabitch can spread her legs and poof! here's your baby ma'am now take this baby home and don't let him see his second birthday??? its crazy to me....It just breaks my heart....all those babies in heaven, I truly hope and I have to believe they serve a purpose whether is down here or up there.... rant over.... :'( |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Jackie on May 15th, 2007, 3:43pm on 05/15/07 at 08:25:22, Lotus wrote:
Sorry... but that's the damndest thing I've ever read....... ::) Jacks 8) Jacks |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Lotus on May 15th, 2007, 5:05pm From a philosophy point of view, it is within human nature to be cruel. Humans without education and awareness such as cavemen would hurt, mutilate, eat one another ... without batting an eyelid. The practice of human mutilation is still rife in many tribes in Africa, for example. What is considered madness in developed countries maybe common practice in some other less developed parts of the world. It doesnt make it right, its just the way it is. It is important to try to understand it, if only partially. A detective trying to catch/stop a serial killer will need to understand how the twisted mind works. The answer is education and awareness. Locking the perpetrator away is easy. Preventing the next perpetrator is what will make a difference. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Melissa on May 15th, 2007, 8:36pm What part of cocaine and methadone don't some understand? ::) |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Linda_Howell on May 15th, 2007, 8:44pm Quote:
Everyone is born with the ability to get angry and be cruel. YOU were saying it is easier to be cruel than to be nice and I say that is BS. If someone cuts me off in traffic and almost causes an accident I get angry. I might even say I'd like to mutilate that guy. I don't do it. WHY? Because I find it a lot easier to be nice and just swear at him in my car. I don't think it has one thing to do with the fact that I live in a civilized society. That woman who mutilated her son lives in a civilized society as well. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by andrewjb on May 15th, 2007, 10:24pm :'(, Madness ! ( with a capital " M " ), in my humble opinion. we have the science to grow a human ear, on a " mouse ", why are there not sociopolitical lessons to be learnt in these situations ? andrew. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by DonnaHar on May 16th, 2007, 1:03pm What about "maternal love" And instinctive protection of our young? These are not conditioned emotions. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by artonio7 on May 16th, 2007, 2:39pm This case is another fine argument for why people need to be reversibly sterilized at puberty, trained to be a parent, tested and after meeting the guidelines, and only after, be permitted to have a child. It won't make these nut jobs any less nutty... but it will not give them the ability to produce a torture victim. just my opinion. with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Brewcrew on May 16th, 2007, 3:38pm on 05/16/07 at 14:39:59, artonio7 wrote:
You are joking, right? Man gets to step in, play God, and once all the paeons pass this subjective test (jump through the parenting hoop, as it were), grant them the blessing to get their tubes untied. We will decide whether or not you will have children. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by artonio7 on May 16th, 2007, 3:47pm on 05/16/07 at 15:38:27, Brewcrew wrote:
Just like we decide who drives... There! Problem solved. with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Lejla on May 16th, 2007, 3:55pm on 05/16/07 at 14:39:59, artonio7 wrote:
Because of a few nutcases, you'd put the rest of the world through this process???? Not fair!!!! |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Brewcrew on May 16th, 2007, 4:02pm on 05/16/07 at 15:47:36, artonio7 wrote:
We will decide whether or not you will fulfill your destiny, whether or not your bloodline will be allowed to continue. I guess you're not bothered by the pesky little problem of whether or not mistakes will be made by other, fallible human beings. Can you say master race? |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Kopfschmerz on May 16th, 2007, 4:13pm [quote author=artonio7 link=board=general;num=1179223931;start=0#21 date=05/16/07 at 14:39:59]This case is another fine argument for why people need to be reversibly sterilized at puberty, trained to be a parent, tested and after meeting the guidelines, and only after, be permitted to have a child. It won't make these nut jobs any less nutty... but it will not give them the ability to produce a torture victim." Jeez, even the Nazi's didn't do that! What wise group of people will decide who will be unsteralized and allowed to have children later? The woman appears to have a few screws loose-what is your excuse? Heidi |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by artonio7 on May 16th, 2007, 5:11pm can you say a welfare state who's major industry is the production of child after unwanted, uncared for children? If you qualify to be a good parent then what's the problem? You have to meet tighter requirements for things in this world that are far less complex and important than raising and caring for a child. So many folks have shown a willingness to give up any and all forms of personal responsibility... So be it... along with that should go their ability to breed unless they can prove their qualified to parent. with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by artonio7 on May 16th, 2007, 5:15pm on 05/16/07 at 16:13:42, Kopfschmerz wrote:
Fuck OFF TROLL! |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Brewcrew on May 16th, 2007, 6:45pm on 05/16/07 at 17:11:57, artonio7 wrote:
Sorry, Tony, but I don't want you or anybody else for that matter deciding that I or my family or my other loved ones need to have involuntary surgery. That's Nazi tactics, and it's twisted. If we were meant to be granted reproductive rights by other humans, we'd have been born with a valve. I hope we can agree to disagree, otherwise I might be deserving of the "F.O., Troll" salute. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by purpleydog on May 16th, 2007, 7:19pm Quote:
No, what the Nazi's did, was to make the mothers torture their own children. If they didn't, the mother was killed. If they did, they, and their children might be able to live. It was an experiment in how far a mother would go to hurt their own child... Can you imagine how that felt to the mothers? Tony, a master race is just what we'd get if childbearing was regulated. And what about the other half of the equation? It takes two to tango. Here in central Illinois, there is a story on the front page of the paper about once a month or so... a woman's child was killed by her (usually) boyfriend, by shaking, hitting, tripping, beating, throwing the very young child on the floor, or up against the wall. Sometimes it's due to non-stop crying. Other times, the guy is being cruel. But the woman, who always pleads no knowledge, is always charged too, for allowing it to happen, and she goes to prison. Some of these mothers sit there and watch these twisted creeps torture their children, and let it happen. But to do what this mother did has to be part of a twisted psyche. Who the hell would cut off their own child's genitals, and blame it on the dog? That is utterly SICK. Maybe the coke made her paranoid, maybe it was post-partum depression. Still, no fucking reason for doing this. People have to be able to ask for help. Of course, being stoned out of your mind is a good reason to think you don't need it. WHERE WAS THE FATHER? Parental rights? In a case like this...I'd hope there are no parental rights... permanently. Jesus, where do people get these ideas to do this stuff anyway? |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Lotus on May 16th, 2007, 7:35pm In Australia right now there is this newborn baby abandoned in a carboard box outside a Melbourne Hospital. When she was found she was suffering respiratory distress and hypothermia and was near death. The initial public outcry reflected in the newspapers headline was " How could she? " saying that how could a mother in this day and age, with all the available services and help do this to a newborn baby. If the baby wasnt found in time she would have been dead. However, there is another group saying that we cant make such judgement. The mother could have mental illness, more likely to come from an abusive home herself etc and that the most important thing is for her to come forward and to receive therapy, and hopefully to be reunited with the baby. This mother here has gone much further than that, she had mutilated her own child. Still most likely she would have low IQ, came from an abusive environment, she obviously does drugs .... It looks like she had fallen through the crack of the system that is there to help people like her, somehow. We already have a system in place to try to identify people at risk, to educate them, to put them through rehab , to intervene prior to crisis .... Unfortunately the resource is scarce. There is currently not enough funding for education, health care and social welfare at the moment. I would like to see more of our tax money going into education and healthcare, than into bigger packages for the politicians or into overseas aid. If we cant even care for our own citizens properly, we shouldnt taken on the neighbours concerns as well, yet. |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by artonio7 on May 16th, 2007, 7:45pm on 05/16/07 at 18:45:51, Brewcrew wrote:
We can agree to disagree. I still hold to the firm belief that a human life is a precious gift and one of our most important duties, obligations and responsibilities as a society is for the care and well being of our youth and elderly. Allowing these idiots to squat out a child every nine months for the sake of a welfare check means something in our society is wrong. They obviously do not have the where-with all to take care of themselves... I see no point in allowing them to be the breed for profit animals that we allow them to be. Prove that you are capable of the responsibility of parenting before being granted the permission. In our culture we usually are tested and rewarded every day...and we are held accountable for our responsibilities: Go to work.. do your job get paid. If you want nice things you work harder... oops... mybad I keep forgetting we are becoming a society of spend first earn later... all's good... we got a credit card types. Hell if ya can't pay for it eventually you can file bankruptcy. It's all an indication that people will shrug their duties more and more in this day and age. Sterilization is at the very least, "outrageous" to think of, allowing this kind of abuse to continue in our sick society is unconscionable oh and Chris... sterilization goes for "Anyone" reaching puberty... male and female. ;) with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by Kevin_M on May 16th, 2007, 8:24pm on 05/16/07 at 19:19:14, purpleydog wrote:
I'm sure there was all sorts of experimentation, but what is being referred to here are the laws passed for sterilization as well as euthanasia. The Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring, proclaimed on July 14, 1933 required physicians to register every case of hereditary illness known to them, except in women over forty-five years of age. Physicians could be fined for failing to comply. In 1934 the first year of the Law's operation, nearly 4,000 people appealed against the decisions of sterilization authorities. 3,559 of the appeals failed. By the end of the Nazi regime, over 200 Hereditary Health Courts (Erbgesundheitsgerichten) were created, and under their rulings over 400,000 people were sterilized against their will. Action T4 (German Aktion T4) was the official name of the Nazi Germany eugenics program which forcefully conducted euthanasia on Germans who were institutionalized or suffering from birth defects. In total, an estimated 200,000 people were killed as a result of the program. at the center of their concerns and targeted those humans they identified as "life unworthy of life" (Lebensunwertes Leben), including but not limited to: criminal, degenerate, dissident, feeble-minded, homosexual, idle, insane, religious and weak humans for elimination from the chain of heredity. More than 400,000 persons were sterilized against their will, while 70,000 were killed in the Action T4.[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics This list from another site. The law called for compulsory sterilization of defectives. The nine categories listed were headed by feebleminded, schizophrenia, manic-depressive, Huntington’s cholera, epilepsy, hereditary body deformities, deafness and hereditary blindness. Alcoholism, the last category on the list, was optional to avoid the confusion with ordinary drunkenness. http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/1920sp6.html |
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Title: Re: This is MADNESS Post by andrewjb on May 16th, 2007, 8:44pm on 05/16/07 at 19:45:26, artonio7 wrote:
hear, hear. though where the bar is set is going to take some serious thunking. andrew. |
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