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(Message started by: Callico on Apr 28th, 2007, 3:27am)
Title: Question for Catholics
Post by Callico on Apr 28th, 2007, 3:27am
For those of you of the Catholic faith, has the church taken a position on the war on terror in Iraq?

I ask this because yesterday at my friend Jesse's funeral mass the priest said that he was not to be considered a hero because what he did in the war was wrong.  He said that Jesus was against war in almost all cases, and that the fighting in Iraq was wrong.  Fortunately I was not able to go to the funeral, Linda represented us.  Had I been there i would have gotten up and left at that point.  I really thought it was tactless, thoughtless, cruel, as well as wrong to say such a thing at the funeral of a young Marine in the presence of his family who were grieving enough.

I had not heard that the Catholic church had taken such a position, and if I were a member of that church, which I'm glad I'm not, I would be looking for another one on Sunday.

BTW, I am NOT Catholic bashing, just looking for clarification.  Thanks.

Jerry
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2007, 5:11am
The priest is a a liberal fuck wad!!

I dont care who you are, you dont say that shit when you are laying to rest someone that fought for us!

I bet hes molesting kids in his spare time!
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by artonio7 on Apr 28th, 2007, 5:36am

on 04/28/07 at 03:27:15, Callico wrote:
For those of you of the Catholic faith, has the church taken a position on the war on terror in Iraq?

I ask this because yesterday at my friend Jesse's funeral mass the priest said that he was not to be considered a hero because what he did in the war was wrong.  He said that Jesus was against war in almost all cases, and that the fighting in Iraq was wrong.  Fortunately I was not able to go to the funeral, Linda represented us.  Had I been there i would have gotten up and left at that point.  I really thought it was tactless, thoughtless, cruel, as well as wrong to say such a thing at the funeral of a young Marine in the presence of his family who were grieving enough.

I had not heard that the Catholic church had taken such a position, and if I were a member of that church, which I'm glad I'm not, I would be looking for another one on Sunday.

BTW, I am NOT Catholic bashing, just looking for clarification.  Thanks.

Jerry


Why don't you ask the pope?

with warm regards,
Tony
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by LeLimey on Apr 28th, 2007, 6:17am
If a Catholic priest said that he wasn't much of a Catholic and he should look to the catholic Churches own history of persecution and Auto Da fe's.

I was brought up as a Catholic - its not the Church for me however.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by DonnaHar on Apr 28th, 2007, 6:47am
I don't know the Churches position but I do know that it wasn't a Christian thing to think or say.

How hurtful and wrong!  
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by vig on Apr 28th, 2007, 7:45am
John Paul II:
http://www.cjd.org/paper/jp2war.html

Benedict:
http://www.cjd.org/paper/benedict.html

(even Benedict took his name from an earlier Benedict, known as the "Peace Pope". )  

Looks like they're pretty much against it....
but the priest still should've shut his yap.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by andrewjb on Apr 28th, 2007, 8:36am
 :'(.  power corupts, the man should leave politics out of religion. problem is, a lot of people look to religion for guidance. andrew.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Jackie on Apr 28th, 2007, 9:03am
Don't ya just love it when someone uses religion/the church to advance their own personal agenda....

What he said is so wrong!!!!

Jackie
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Edna on Apr 28th, 2007, 10:45am
Hi Jerry,

I am Catholic, and as such I can promise you each and every service I attend ALWAYS asks for prayers for our soldiers to be brought safely home, and we pray for those fallen soldiers as well.

It is quite a shame that this priest was so heartless in performing Jesse's funeral mass.

I guess the priesthood is similar to doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, etc.....................one BAD APPLE can spoil a whole good bunch.

My prayers go out to the family and I pray that in their grief they can remain proud of their marine !!!

EDNA
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Callico on Apr 28th, 2007, 11:50am
Thanks Edna,

I thought that was pretty much the case.  From what Linda said of the service the priest had a sour, bitter attitude in general.  I know a number of Catholics are in the service and could not believe it was due to an edict of the church.  

Jerry
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by andrewjb on Apr 28th, 2007, 12:10pm

on 04/28/07 at 08:36:42, andrewjb wrote:
 :'(.  power corupts, the man should leave politics out of religion. problem is, a lot of people look to religion for guidance. andrew.

i have just re-read this thread, dident mean to seem callous, just some preists misinterpret the devotion felt in a church. andrew.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by medic1852 on Apr 28th, 2007, 12:18pm

on 04/28/07 at 03:27:15, Callico wrote:
I ask this because yesterday at my friend Jesse's funeral mass the priest said that he was not to be considered a hero because what he did in the war was wrong.  He said that Jesus was against war in almost all cases, and that the fighting in Iraq was wrong.  Fortunately I was not able to go to the funeral, Linda represented us.  Had I been there i would have gotten up and left at that point.  I really thought it was tactless, thoughtless, cruel, as well as wrong to say such a thing at the funeral of a young Marine in the presence of his family who were grieving enough.

I had not heard that the Catholic church had taken such a position, and if I were a member of that church, which I'm glad I'm not, I would be looking for another one on Sunday.

BTW, I am NOT Catholic bashing, just looking for clarification.  Thanks.

Jerry

This preist needs to go to a Marine base as say these things. Had I been there he would have gotten his head busted wide open. He needs to read the part in the bible that talks about judging someone. I am at a loss for words to describe how I feel in this situation. But the one thing I do know is I would have hurt the preist.
Rodger
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Apr 28th, 2007, 12:28pm

on 04/28/07 at 03:27:15, Callico wrote:
For those of you of the Catholic faith, has the church taken a position on the war on terror in Iraq?


From what I have heard, the Vatican is in favor of the war on terror(ists), and is not in favor of the war for Democracy in Iraq.

Pope JP could not understand why the USA cares more about democracy in Iraq than protecting US citizens.  10 years ago, Catholics could practice in Iraq without fear of getting their heads cut off.  Due to the democracy the US has imposed on Iraq, Catholics can no longer practice unless they want to get their head cut off.

This really pisses of the Vatican as one of their primary goals is to give people across the world the freedom to practice religion.  
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Apr 28th, 2007, 12:34pm

on 04/28/07 at 12:18:10, medic1852 wrote:
Had I been there he would have gotten his head busted wide open.
But the one thing I do know is I would have hurt the preist.
Rodger


Now, now, Rodg.  Busting someone's head open for speaking their mind goes against the constitution, namely the 1st ammendment.  Your bretheren have fought and died just to give that priest the right to speak freely.  Let's not let their deaths be in vain.  
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by medic1852 on Apr 28th, 2007, 12:57pm

on 04/28/07 at 12:34:10, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Now, now, Rodg.  Busting someone's head open for speaking their mind goes against the constitution, namely the 1st ammendment.  Your bretheren have fought and died just to give that priest the right to speak freely.  Let's not let their deaths be in vain.  

Your correct he does have the right of free speech. I will not debate that. But to say what he said at a funeral of a Marine (any service member applies here) is wrong distasteful and in desperate need of an attitude adjustment. The folks were burying their son (or daughter) a condemed killer on death row is given more respect by a preist.
Rodger
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Apr 28th, 2007, 1:16pm

on 04/28/07 at 12:57:46, medic1852 wrote:
Your correct he does have the right of free speech. I will not debate that. But to say what he said at a funeral of a Marine (any service member applies here) is wrong distasteful and in desperate need of an attitude adjustment. The folks were burying their son (or daughter) a condemed killer on death row is given more respect by a preist.
Rodger


I totally agree.   Like my Mom used to always say: If you dont have something nice to say, then shut the fuck up already.  
The priest should have kept his mouth shut.  Nobody asked him for his opinion.

Its kind of ironic too.  The USA sponsors these religious cults, and then the priest who pays no taxes speaks ill?  
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Redd on Apr 28th, 2007, 1:19pm
Oh how convienient to attempt to erase history for the sake of a political opinion by the priest.  The Catholics have waged the bloodiest of all holy wars in history.  The Cruisades.  

Hypocrasy at it's finest...

I certainly do not agree with his narrow minded and obviously less than educated opinion.  Jesse and other hero's that have come and died before him, have however protected his right to state it.  

Better to remain silent and only be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by chewy on Apr 28th, 2007, 1:21pm
The 1st Amendment protects against Government interferance.

Last I heard there was a seperation of Church and State so the 1st amendment can not be used as an argument either way.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Apr 28th, 2007, 1:56pm
There is no sep between church and state.  That is definately NOT in the constitution.  Here in the USA, we certainly do not have seperation as the gov't openly sponsors religious cults.  The word god is even on our money, and we force kids to reference god in the pledge.  Hell, most people even think that marriage is religious.

Like Jefferson, I am a firm believer in freedom FROM religion.  And I certainly dont think I should pay more in taxes so religious cults pay nothing.  Paid cult members, such as priests and pastors, don't even pay income taxes, not even social security or medicare.  

Multi-million dollar properties used by these cults also pay $0 in taxes.  I pay $2000 a year in taxes for my shack I call a home.  My community, my state and my country would be much better off if we taxed these freeloaders.

Its called stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.  I wish I had freedoom FROM religion.

Course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
:-/
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by chewy on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:00pm

Quote:
as the gov't openly sponsors religious cults


Can you give me an example of that?

I'm pretty sure David Koresh (sp) wouldn't agree.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by artonio7 on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:06pm

on 04/28/07 at 13:19:36, Redd wrote:
Oh how convienient to attempt to erase history for the sake of a political opinion by the priest.  The Catholics have waged the bloodiest of all holy wars in history.  The Cruisades.  

Hypocrasy at it's finest...

I certainly do not agree with his narrow minded and obviously less than educated opinion.  Jesse and other hero's that have come and died before him, have however protected his right to state it.  

Better to remain silent and only be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.


The same arguments can be made against our founding fathers... with slavery, and the genocide of the indians. Have we moved on? Do we still practice such activity? Should Americans forever be seen as war mongering slave owners?

Although the questions are rhetorical, with the logic you've followed, we can easily see where those opposed to the US can judge us on our history as opposed to our ideals and current standards.

Not an argument... just an observation.

with warm regards,
Tony
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:09pm


1.Pastor Chestor gets paid $7000 per month from his cult.  Pastor Chestor paid no personal income tax, no medicare, no social security and no unemployement taxes.

2.Pastor Chestor's cult has a 50k sq ft building on 7 acres.  No property taxes are paid, either for the building or for the land.

3.Pastor Chestor's cult has $100,000,000 in the bank collecting interest or invested in other securities.  The dividends, capital gains, and interest are all tax free.  
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:13pm
4. Pastor Chestor fucks little boys in the ass and is not prosecuted.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by LeLimey on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:21pm
No - he just moves to a new parish where no one knows his nasty little ways..
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by alienspacebabe on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:37pm

on 04/28/07 at 03:27:15, Callico wrote:
...yesterday at my friend Jesse's funeral mass the priest said that he was not to be considered a hero because what he did in the war was wrong...

I really thought it was tactless, thoughtless, cruel, as well as wrong to say such a thing at the funeral of a young Marine in the presence of his family who were grieving enough.



Something like that said at any funeral is tactless and thoughtless.  To say it at a Marine's funeral adds cruelty to it.  On top of all that, politics has no place at a funeral.

A hero, to me, is someone who takes it upon him/herself to make the world a better place, be it for one or for many.

Thank you, Jesse, for serving our country. Semper Fi!
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Brewcrew on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:38pm
And Pastor Chester moves to another parish, not only at the request of the archbishop, but also with the blessing of the archbishop.

What does that make it?

That's right, boys and girls - a conspiracy.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by artonio7 on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:44pm
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/dates/2007/apr/16/jesse-d-delatorre/

God Bless him.

with warm regards,
Tony
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Redd on Apr 28th, 2007, 2:55pm

on 04/28/07 at 14:06:41, artonio7 wrote:
The same arguments can be made against our founding fathers... with slavery, and the genocide of the indians. Have we moved on? Do we still practice such activity? Should Americans forever be seen as war mongering slave owners?

Although the questions are rhetorical, with the logic you've followed, we can easily see where those opposed to the US can judge us on our history as opposed to our ideals and current standards.

Not an argument... just an observation.

with warm regards,
Tony


My comments were directed at the inquirey about the Catholics and the apparent confusion Jerry had over the stance of a said certain Priest.  I contained thoughts to that Priest's hypocracy and his alone.

If we want to argue about slavery and the slaughter of Native Americans, then we'd need to turn the topic to the Puritans, Methodists, and Protestants. ;;D

Just trying to stay on topic Tony...thats all.  Not wanting to bust anyones chops.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Callico on Apr 28th, 2007, 4:27pm
BMonee,

You are mistaken in your assertion that those in religious work do not pay taxes.  While the church buildings and properties pay no property tax, those who work in and for churches pay all income taxes, Social Security, Medicare, etc the same as do all others.  The only exception to that is that those in the Clergy are allowed to opt out of Social Security if they have their own program, but they can never draw anything from Social Security or any of its offshoots.  

My brother who is a minister has opted out of Social Security and invested an equal amount privately, and will retire with far more than any person who has been ripped off by the Social Security Administration for years.  He has the benefit of wht President Bush tried to get as an option for all of us, but was shot down by Congress.  Other than that he pays the same taxes as anyone, including property taxes on his home and personal property.

Jerry
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by chewy on Apr 28th, 2007, 5:18pm

Quote:
There is no sep between church and state.


Every example you gave B$ is an example of a seperation.


Quote:
as the gov't openly sponsors religious cults


How can you possibly percieve any of your examples as government sposorship?
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Guiseppi on Apr 28th, 2007, 5:48pm
A catholic from birth. I won't debate anything said on this thread because all examples are of "humans" failing, not the "Catholic Faith" failing. Catholics are as upset about the problems in our clergy as are non-catholics. I just dislike seeing the broad generalizations that "all priests are pedophiles", or "all priests are against the war", based on the statements or actions of a few. To allow the few to represent my faith is like saying Jerry Springer represents all of America!

Tom Cruise said it best in The Da Vinci Code, it all comes down to faith. Guiseppis two cents worth.

Guiseppi
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2007, 5:53pm

on 04/28/07 at 16:27:24, Callico wrote:
 He has the benefit of wht President Bush tried to get as an option for all of us, but was shot down by Congress.  


BINGO!
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Apr 28th, 2007, 7:39pm

on 04/28/07 at 16:27:24, Callico wrote:
BMonee,

You are mistaken in your assertion that those in religious work do not pay taxes.  While the church buildings and properties pay no property tax, those who work in and for churches pay all income taxes, Social Security, Medicare, etc the same as do all others.  The only exception to that is that those in the Clergy are allowed to opt out of Social Security if they have their own program, but they can never draw anything from Social Security or any of its offshoots.  


Jerry, There are rules that get around paying taxes.  For example, if you call it a "Housing allowance", rather than a "paycheck", you dont have to pay tax.  I could also do this with my company......but i would get in trouble for tax fraud.  
I have audited 15 churches in 4 states in the last year alone.  Granted, I shouldnt generalize, but these entities dont pay nearly as much in taxes as you or I.  

Don, What i meant was, there is no clause in the constitution that says "seperation between church and state".  There is no rule that says there should be a seperation.  
In daily life though, religion is interjectionalized frequently.  In court for example, they want you to put your hand on a bible and swear to God.  God has no place in the public court system.  
I wish there was a seperation....

And by sponsoring, i mean in the financial sense.  Just like Pepsi sponsors NASCAR.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2007, 7:48pm

on 04/28/07 at 19:39:13, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Jerry, There are rules that get around paying taxes.  For example, if you call it a "Housing allowance", rather than a "paycheck", you dont have to pay tax.  I could also do this with my company......but i would get in trouble for tax fraud.  


Nuff said!
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by andrewjb on Apr 28th, 2007, 8:47pm
 God has no place in the public court system.  
I wish there was a seperation....

I DONT THINK GOD SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN ANY PUBLIC PLACE, OTHER THAN THE EDIFICE, CHOSEN BY THE CALLED / CHOSEN FEW. RELIGION IS A PERSONEL AFFAIR. AND SHOULD BE RESPECTED AS SUCH BY THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS. ANDREW.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Kevin_M on Apr 28th, 2007, 8:50pm

on 04/28/07 at 03:27:15, Callico wrote:
For those of you of the Catholic faith, has the church taken a position on the war on terror in Iraq?


Apparently they have.  From Wikipedia


Quote:
Vatican City

The Holy See took a firm stance against the U.S. plan to invade Iraq. Pope John Paul II's special envoy, Pío Cardinal Laghi, was sent by the Church to talk with George W. Bush to express opposition to the war on Iraq. The Catholic Church said that it was up to the United Nations to solve the international conflict through diplomacy. According to the Church, the Iraq war, and indeed most modern wars, did not satisfy the just war requirements set by St. Augustine of Hippo and other theologians. The method of total war (i.e. any non accidental attacks on non combatants, or civilian infrastructure), which has been used in most modern wars since the American Civil War and which was used in Iraq, are not permitted.


However, consider another holy man, but in battle.

From the filmed verbal personal account of Terry Combs (no rank given) of the U.S.S. New Orleans in Pearl Harbor, documentary "World At War"

(not verbatim)

We were in for repairs taking power and steam from the docks when both were somehow cut in early morning during the attack, we had to operate everythin on manual.  Only a 5" battery was unmasked that we could use but it had to be served manually, passing ammunition by hand.   We had a young chaplain who didn't have a battle station, primarily concerned with crew morale named Howell M. Forgy who marched up and down the deck saying "Praise the lord, pass the ammunition"

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/img/USMC-C-Pearl-6.gif
View from a Japanese plane taken around 0800 on 7 December 1941. At lower left is   Nevada (BB-36), with   Arizona (BB-39) ahead of her, with the repair ship   Vestal (AR-4) moored outboard;   West Virginia (BB-48 ) (already beginning to list to port) alongside   Tennessee (BB-43);   Oklahoma (BB-37) (which has already taken at least one torpedo) with   Maryland (BB-46) moored inboard; the fleet oiler   Neosho and, far right,   California (BB-44), which, too, already has been torpedoed.

(USS New Orleans in dock at upper left)


Quote:
At 0805, as several low-flying torpedo planes roared by, bound for Battleship Row, Marine sentries on the fantail opened fire with rifles and .45s. New Orleans'  men, meanwhile, so swiftly manned...







Quote:
I really thought it was tactless, thoughtless, cruel, as well as wrong to say such a thing at the funeral of a young Marine in the presence of his family who were grieving enough.


Agree.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by BarbaraD on Apr 28th, 2007, 9:55pm
The priest was wrong to say it. But he's human - and not the first priest that's been wrong to say something. Don't blame the whole church for ONE.

We had one in our Parish who got up and ran down the democrats right before an election. It upset my mother something terrible - I told her she should have walked out - had I been there I would have demanded equal time, but I'm a witch and didn't like the creep anyhow... But he was only ONE also --

As with any church -- there are bad apples  (history shows that). Religion is not bad -- just some of the people who preach it.

Hugs BD
A Catholic who doesn't always agree with every priest
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Rosybabe on Apr 28th, 2007, 10:15pm

on 04/28/07 at 03:27:15, Callico wrote:
For those of you of the Catholic faith, has the church taken a position on the war on terror in Iraq?

I ask this because yesterday at my friend Jesse's funeral mass the priest said that he was not to be considered a hero because what he did in the war was wrong.  He said that Jesus was against war in almost all cases, and that the fighting in Iraq was wrong.  Fortunately I was not able to go to the funeral, Linda represented us.  Had I been there i would have gotten up and left at that point.  I really thought it was tactless, thoughtless, cruel, as well as wrong to say such a thing at the funeral of a young Marine in the presence of his family who were grieving enough.

I had not heard that the Catholic church had taken such a position, and if I were a member of that church, which I'm glad I'm not, I would be looking for another one on Sunday.

BTW, I am NOT Catholic bashing, just looking for clarification.  Thanks.

Jerry


Jerry:

I am catholic and I can tell you that even if the church is against the war, The priest should not have talk that way in a funeral, He was there to bring closure not to judge  the boy's actions. That is God's job. What He did was wrong.
The Marine's family should go and talk direct to the diocesis and complain about this priest so this never happen again to another family.
We once filed a complain against a priest because during a weddiing ceremony for my family He only spoke about politics , he forgot what he was celebrating.
The diocesis did not allow the priest to perform weddings at that church for quite a while.
There are good and bad priests.
The priest who celebrated my wedding was very nice and He made the ceremony very touching. I was very happy that day and he also performed my Grandmother's funeral mass and it was also very nice.  
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Linda_Howell on Apr 28th, 2007, 10:32pm


Quote:
I thought that was pretty much the case.  From what Linda said of the service the priest had a sour, bitter attitude in general.  I know a number of Catholics are in the service and could not believe it was due to an edict of the church.  



It was NOT an edict from the Church.

There are meatheads in every single religion.  Catholic, Jewish, Baptist(can you say "Tammy Faye and her husband,  Baker" ), Muslims,  and others.

I just hate it that one or two or even more,  ruin it for the rest.  There are so many Catholic priests, nuns, missionarys of all religions doing good, wholesome hard work to help the poor the undertrodden the weak and the infirm.  

But it seems it only takes one A$$hole to ruin it.

I've been Catholic all my life.  The only thing I have EVER heard a priest denounce in the way of a political statement....is abortion.   In my mind politics needs to stay totally out of that subject anyway.

  This is my one year rant on religion/politics.  
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Callico on Apr 29th, 2007, 12:53am
Thanks so much for the feedback.  I was pretty sure that was the situation, but wanted clairification.  I know there are a few bad apples in every organization that make all of the rest look bad.  BTW, Linda, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were Assemblies of God, not Baptist, but we have had our share of them as well.

Thanks so much for the showing of support for Jesse and his family.  We have expressed your responses to them and they are very much appreciated.

Jerry
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by JeffB on Apr 29th, 2007, 1:13am
Jesus will smite him down like a freckle faced, buck tooth stepchild. Or not.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Rosybabe on Apr 29th, 2007, 10:44am

on 04/28/07 at 17:48:24, Guiseppi wrote:
A catholic from birth. I won't debate anything said on this thread because all examples are of "humans" failing, not the "Catholic Faith" failing. Catholics are as upset about the problems in our clergy as are non-catholics. I just dislike seeing the broad generalizations that "all priests are pedophiles", or "all priests are against the war", based on the statements or actions of a few. To allow the few to represent my faith is like saying Jerry Springer represents all of America!

Tom Cruise said it best in The Da Vinci Code, it all comes down to faith. Guiseppis two cents worth.

Guiseppi


very well said Guiseppi!
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Charlie on Apr 29th, 2007, 11:40pm

Quote:
He has the benefit of wht President Bush tried to get as an option for all of us, but was shot down by Congress.  


Real dumb idea. It dumbfounds me that people like to shoot themselves in the foot.

The far right has been trying to get even with FDR by killing Social Security for 70 years. Even Congress knows not to touch the third rail. Naturally Bush, who has done more than anyone to destroy the GOP....never mind the rest of us, thought he finally had a shot. Keep it up; it's a sure way to stay out of control with my boomer generation hitting 60 as is Bush, the billionaire who cares little about you or me.

This picking away at Social Security woulld be just a beginning.

Charlie
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by seasonalboomer on Apr 30th, 2007, 10:48am
There are liberal priests and conservative priests. Priests who are able to take in the big picture and keep everything in context, and those that can't.

While the Catholic Church does take certain positions on world events, you will generally find that they are pretty consistently (in the 20th and 21st centuries) against war. I don't have a problem with that, and would question if my church started picking a particular side other than being against losing the lives of young soldiers and civilians in conflicts that most would agree should be able to be solved in other ways.

This priest did this ceremony a disservice. My parish is very consistent. Each mass includes prayers for our soldiers, and my parish is probably considered to be a fairly liberal parish. None of the priests in my parish would ever speak in this way at a funeral and a formal complaint should be made with the diocese on behalf of this family. Very sad.

But this is no reason to make allusions to pedophiles and all that came out on this thread. I'm a Catholic, yes, but I'm also a member of this community. Catholics are easy targets and it is societally acceptable to attack Catholicism in ways most people would never consider attacking Jews, Baptists, or Pentecostals, for that matter.  

Scott
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Gator on Apr 30th, 2007, 11:09pm

on 04/30/07 at 10:48:05, seasonalboomer wrote:
Catholics are easy targets and it is societally acceptable to attack Catholicism in ways most people would never consider attacking Jews, Baptists, or Pentecostals, for that matter.  

Scott


While I agree that taking potshots at the Catholic religion as a whole was unwarranted in this thread, you have to admit, the church created most of its own bad publicity by trying to cover up the pedophilia scandals in the first place.  Had they made a public example of the perverts rather than paying off the families and shuttling the priests around to other parishes, the public perception would be quite different than it is today.

As for the priest in this thread, I agree that his behavior was disgusting and inappropriate and a formal complaint should be filed with the diocese on behalf of the family.  The man should not be interjecting his personal politics at a time like that.  He definitely should suffer some form of sanctions if the church has something like that.  Maybe his penance should be to serve in a Veteran's Hospital for a period of time or something like that.
Title: Re: Question for Catholics
Post by Charlie on May 1st, 2007, 2:30am

Quote:
There is no sep between church and state.  That is definately NOT in the constitution.  Here in the USA, we certainly do not have seperation as the gov't openly sponsors religious cults.  The word god is even on our money, and we force kids to reference god in the pledge.  Hell, most people even think that marriage is religious.

Like Jefferson, I am a firm believer in freedom FROM religion.  And I certainly dont think I should pay more in taxes so religious cults pay nothing.  Paid cult members, such as priests and pastors, don't even pay income taxes, not even social security or medicare.  

Multi-million dollar properties used by these cults also pay $0 in taxes.  I pay $2000 a year in taxes for my shack I call a home.  My community, my state and my country would be much better off if we taxed these freeloaders.

Its called stealing from the poor and giving to the rich.  I wish I had freedoom FROM religion.


I can find nothing to argue about here.

Charlie


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