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        New Message Board Archives >> 2007 General Board Posts >> Wake up call (non-CH)
        
(Message started by: burnt-toast on Apr 6^th, 2007, 9:28am)

Title: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by burnt-toast on Apr 6^th, 2007, 9:28am

I watched a Senate Subcommittee hearing on the federal government’s unfunded Federal “Real ID Law” of 2005. State government’s are mandated to implement the law by 2008. The Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS) sees it as a fee based system – meaning the costs will be passed on to the individual. Get ready because the cost of issuing and renewing state drivers licenses is currently projected to increase to between $250 and $300 in most states. Every renewal must take place in person because of documentation requirements, which means that every state will have to open/staff DMV Investigative offices. Unfortunately DHS has not defined standards and their original ridiculously low $110 million national implementation cost estimate has already escalated into the billions as the true costs of such a massive system become apparent.

Amazingly, no one can realistically explain how this Federal ID does much to improve national security. Even DHS had trouble justifying its claims of “National Security” benefits – WTF. So to avoid constitutional challenges – the Real ID Law is termed voluntary. States and individuals can opt out, but opting out means that individuals and entire state populations will not be able to function as legitimate citizens, i.e., barred from entering government buildings, boarding planes, using public transportation, getting a job, opening bank accounts, making purchases, etc., etc. The National ID will be required, and record virtually everything that we do. It’s being called the most effective means for monitoring and altering the behaviors of U.S. citizens.

This isn’t voluntary system, it does little to improve National Security, the costs are astronomical and it is unconstitutional. While the Federal Government justifies the free flow of Illegal Aliens into the country by redefining them as “Undocumented Workers” it is forcing law-abiding U.S. citizens to conform to a Police State tracking system.

Best of all - the information to be collected will be freely traded between private corporations, industries and government agencies - again WTF. It actually exposes citizens to greater risk of fraud and increases personal security risks by making it possible to track personal details of every U.S. citizen’s life and their activities real time. Detailed personal information will be accessible to just about anyone willing to pay for it, steal it or with direct availability to it.

Folks, if you have any backbone or common sense left flood your state and federal representatives with demands to have this abuse of power stopped. Call and E-mail if you like but make sure to follow up with a written letter. Do something or get ready to start calling everyone COMRAD.

Tom

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by artonio7 on Apr 6^th, 2007, 10:41am

http://artonio7.com/person.jpg

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Mac_Muz on Apr 6^th, 2007, 10:43am

Any link? These back door deals are killing "We the People" In NH the feds increased tax of gas 18 cents... thats on top of the last tax increase. People (locals) here can't afford this and get to work...

This year I couldn't pay for fuel to plow snow, and lost my accounts. I can't do driveways (small ones) for 25 bucks a pop anymore and that is what folks are accustomed to paying... Every 3 hours I have to buy gas running in low low eats gas! I have (2) 38 gallon tanks, and never know what it will cost, just more than I bring back in....

I think I might become Undocumented Worker, hey why not?

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Mac_Muz on Apr 6^th, 2007, 10:44am

Art, that isn't gonna work with this ol' boy... I got no tatts and i ride motorbikes... it'll get dicey sticking ink, or rice grains in my body.... Who ever tries that better have body bags a plenty...

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by artonio7 on Apr 6^th, 2007, 10:55am

on 04/06/07 at 10:43:00, Mac_Muz wrote:

I think I might become Undocumented Worker, hey why not?

I think that has been covered as well.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/022904rfidtagsexplode.html

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Mac_Muz on Apr 6^th, 2007, 11:44am

Art, is that link for real? Should I take note of something there other than toasted bank notes?

All I know is each instance of a govt event around here it costs more than I have.... I can't earn enough to make ends meet, and then another tax comes into play, and I just go bassakwrds.

I get what ever meds I get underground, and cheaper for it, including trex...

Last August I was forced with pnuemonai to go to the hospital and it was $1,600.00 for an x ray and a few tests! Which kept me 5 hours in a waiting room between tests...

I know woodland skills but these days it is illegal to go live like that, and I don't want welfare...

Most of the folks I know can't afford tech work, so I do it free, so atleast they can get places...

The damn govt spends money like it is going out of style.

Except to me there is no such thing as money anymore as it is based on a bad promise...

i was looking at silver the other day because i use it making things and found a silver quater is worth $3.38 !

So thats worth 1 gallon of gas, and you should get back $1.50 back in current bank notes!

Unfortunately i think I will live to see the day when many can't afford to just survive..... and I will be one of them.

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Sandy_C on Apr 6^th, 2007, 1:47pm

on 04/06/07 at 09:28:31, burnt-toast wrote:

Get ready because the cost of issuing and renewing state drivers licenses is currently projected to increase to between $250 and $300 in most states. Every renewal must take place in person because of documentation requirements, which means that every state will have to open/staff DMV Investigative offices.

You don't have to go in person to renew your driver's license? I do. Ours renew every 5 years, I think, and we have to go in person, take the eye test, sign test, and get a lovely new photo that looks like you've just been arrested. I thought everyone already has to do this. ??

Sandy

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by burnt-toast on Apr 6^th, 2007, 6:05pm

Sandy,

There may be a number of problems with PA government but I’ve never had issue with the DMV. All renewals and paperwork are handled in Harrisburg.

In the 90’s PA closed numerous license centers and started doing renewals by mail and now through the PA-DMV website. A limited number of small centers remain open exclusively for drivers testing (a once in a lifetime test), and photo IDs. You walk in give them your renewed license, take a number and in less than 10-minutes you’re out the door.

This new Federal law forces PA and just about every other state to revert back to large paper pushing offices scattered throughout each state - staffed to meet Federal guidelines for collection, investigation and approval of federal citizenship documentation every time a license is renewed. But this is just one issue driving costs.

Every state will need to replace current software, hardware & forms, fund re-programming, data collection/retention/re-formatting, security, retrain and expand staff to meet federal requirements that have yet to be defined. Basically replace fully functional infrastructure and processes to conform to new federal requirements by May 2008. Plus add infrastructure to link to and staff a new central federal database and federal infrastructure. The costs for all of this will pushed back on citizens – there is no federal funding for the program. Is it any surprise this new law was buried more than 650 pages into and passed as part of a war-spending bill?

Then as one official stated “as more businesses' begin to come online and require a Federal ID for transactions, consumers will bear the cost for installing infrastructure to support communication with the central federal database”.

The costs are astronomical and citizens are being forced to subsidize a grossly unconstitutional federal program of data collection and monitoring of every U.S. citizen down to transaction level detail. How’s that for Big Brother.

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Charlie on Apr 6^th, 2007, 7:28pm

Robert Heinlien was probably right when he wrote that when a country or planet requires id cards, it's time to look elsewhere.

Charlie

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by JenniferD on Apr 6^th, 2007, 9:25pm

Sounds like Revelations to me.

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Mac_Muz on Apr 7^th, 2007, 8:26am

I did some research whick I had done once before in 04, and found documents finding Bush indeed passed this very law in 05. It was signed with no discussion in the sentate and or congress and included with the relief funding for the tsnamaii (sp)

It is supposed to go into effect in 08 as is said in the first post...

It is like to cost every man, woman and child $250.00 each and up, and with out it you won't be able to buy, sell, work, fly, and so on anything......

It is illegal according to the Cons, but since when did the Cons mean anything to Govt?

So far as i can tell there are no grass roots movements to stop this LAW which exisits now....

In effect the Govt can controll anything anyone does any time it wants... but they do that now .....

No doubt no one will do one single thing to stop the Govt, and we will all take the number.....

yeah it does JenniferD

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by artonio7 on Apr 7^th, 2007, 10:53am

If you have not yet watched the movie "V for Vendetta" rent it.

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by TonyG1 on Apr 7^th, 2007, 11:08am

on 04/06/07 at 21:25:07, JenniferD wrote:

Sounds like Revelations to me.

Ditto Jennifer !!

Modified to add this link:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/ramasastry.ids/index.html

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Lobster on Apr 7^th, 2007, 12:00pm

on 04/06/07 at 19:28:57, Charlie wrote:

Robert Heinlien was probably right when he wrote that when a country or planet requires id cards, it's time to look elsewhere.
Charlie

No shit Charlie... that is the first thing that popped into my mind.

Dawn & I often talk about moving elsewhere when retirement time arrives. She likes Italy. I like Latin America.

I am so tired of hearing the words 'National Security'.

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Mac_Muz on Apr 7^th, 2007, 12:01pm

I am sure the Govt thinks we can ALL afford this, as after all it will be ALL of us that in the end pays for it..

Great link! thanks..

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Lobster on Apr 7^th, 2007, 12:42pm

on 04/06/07 at 21:25:07, JenniferD wrote:

Sounds like Revelations to me.

No lie.
Remember back when you first read/heard about Revelations? You thought to yourself 'Well fuck me, I will never accept any such mark!'

Yeah, right...
How about if you cannot drive your car without the mark? (new drivers license)
Or you cannot venture in/out of the country without the mark? (new drivers license)
Or you cannot earn a living without the mark? (social security number)

There is a pretty good case that Revelations in its entirety was a reference to the Roman empire back in the day, and that the 'mark' was the emperors head on every coin. It just so happens that the numbers '666' look a hell of a lot like Nero's name in Hebrew.
Without slamming the faith, it sure would be nice if Revelations were just another work of fiction, as the end-timers are frothing at the mouth with all the shit that GWB and his lesser prince of darkness Cheney have been subjecting the world to.

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Mac_Muz on Apr 8^th, 2007, 10:23am

Well this LAW had bad deal all over it, and this law has gotta go, and those who created it have gotta go too..

We need new parties as Govt, and only if no one would vote for either and select another so both parties go poof can we get them out, with out bloodshed...

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Brewcrew on Apr 8^th, 2007, 10:38am

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/images/auschtattoo.jpg

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by burnt-toast on Apr 8^th, 2007, 12:51pm

on 04/06/07 at 09:28:31, burnt-toast wrote:

Folks, if you have any backbone or common sense left flood your state and federal representatives with demands to have this abuse of power stopped. Call and E-mail if you like but make sure to follow up with a written letter. Do something or get ready to start calling everyone COMRAD.

Tom

This is where it must start - Help flood your state and federal representatives with demands to stop this unconstitutional abuse of power. Ask everyone you know to do the same. Every representative's phone/fax number, email/mailing address is available online.

The next step is to prove "The People" have long-term memories at election time. Refuse to be divided by political non-sense. Send "career politicans" to the unemployment line and reject corrupt "Party Politics".

Nothing's going to improve until "The People" start reminding public servents who they work for. They've already turned "The People" into their voiceless Cash Cows - now they're attempting brand each of us to make sure we don't step out of line.

The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves. How could they be so stupid to entrust the freedoms they fought and died for - to "The People"?

Sorry folks - I promise to get off the soap box now.

Tom

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Brewcrew on Apr 8^th, 2007, 1:15pm

on 04/08/07 at 12:51:50, burnt-toast wrote:

The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves. How could they be so stupid to entrust the freedoms they fought and died for - to "The People"?

To whom else do you propose they should have entrusted them?

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Redd on Apr 8^th, 2007, 2:22pm

It seems rather ironic as well as timely. Just last night we watched a movie on History Channel where some 1000 odd years in the future the race of man becomes mute and voiceless animals with no rights. History and religion has been re-written to reflect the world as it is and not as it was and both are the basis for the government and moral law of the time.

Seems it's happening already.

The silencing of the average man to the voice of the Government is closing in on us. Planet of the Apes isn't as fictional when viewed in this context. :-/

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by ivanov on Apr 8^th, 2007, 2:39pm

Big Brother -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mmF0Mw579A

www.aclu.org/privacy/gen/14898res20030908.html

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by TonyG1 on Apr 8^th, 2007, 6:44pm

on 04/08/07 at 12:51:50, burnt-toast wrote:

Tom - Thanks for starting this thread !! I knew nothing of this until I read your post. The first thing I did yesterday was send emails to my representatives indicating I found this to be unconstitutional and that the law should be repealed.

We all should be on and stay on our soapboxes over this one ... http://bestsmileys.com/angry2/6.gif

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by artonio7 on Apr 8^th, 2007, 7:00pm

The National ID Card is just one step along the way perhaps. The next phase not too far down the path is to tie it in with the removal of currency as we know it. No ID means no legal means for having currency.

Just a hunch.

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by burnt-toast on Apr 9^th, 2007, 7:16am

on 04/08/07 at 13:15:32, Brewcrew wrote:

To whom else do you propose they should have entrusted them?

Whom else? Just pointing out that The Founding Fathers seem to have misjudged "The People's" character, ability and will to preserve what they fought & died for.

Did the Founding Fathers envision “The People” doing nothing as the Republic morphs into a Democracy under which individual rights and freedoms vanish?

Or… “The People” quietly submitting to a governing class and accepting an all-powerful central government catering to special, corporate and foreign interests?

Or… “The People” quietly accepting that technology somehow changes the basic principals of individual rights and freedoms on which the Republic was founded?

Or… “The People” permitting the system of checks and balances to vanish as three separate branches of government merge into one politically motivated bureaucracy?

Preserving independence and freedom in the Republic requires active participation in its preservation. Voting, going back to sleep, whining & complaining but accepting openly corrupt party politics as representation, isn’t cutting it.

TonyG1 got it - I’m hoping to spark a few more of “The People” to exercise their right to petition government and start preserving rights and freedoms. The true power vested in "The People" is numbers - we need to start using our strength.

Tom

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Brewcrew on Apr 9^th, 2007, 9:15am

on 04/09/07 at 07:16:46, burnt-toast wrote:

No.

No.

No.

and

No.

You and I are on the same side, Tom. The answer is that there is no other entity to which the founding fathers could have or should have entrusted these freedoms.

When it comes to government, we the people get what we deserve. The nature of modern democratic (with a small "d" ) politics is such that the "have nots" will vote for whoever promises them more of the money they are able to take out of the pockets of the "haves."

People who vote on principle are a dying breed.

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by TonyG1 on Apr 9^th, 2007, 9:45am

Frankly, this scares the living sh%t outta me (sorry) !! I'm planning to follow-up the emails with certified letters to the representatives explaining in great detail my displeasure with this 'stuff'. I plan to start a campaign to get the local media involved in coverage of this issue to inform the general public..... Funny what both houses do in the wee hours of the morning when they think no one is watching..... Rat Ba&tar@ds !!! [smiley=mad.gif]

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Mac_Muz on Apr 9^th, 2007, 11:01am

This is a direct offence against the Xth Amendment.

Many links can be had off this link, and is what NH is now doing about it..

Sununu will be hearing from me anyway. He is a part of the 100 to zip vote in the first place making this a LAW.

One would think these folks had read and understand the Declaration of Independance , the Cons, and the Bill of Rights!

If they haven't they sure as hell don't need to stay at these levels of We the People.

Perhaps a little bill about retirement should be brought up and voted on eh?

Oh yeah the link.... ;;D

http://news.com.com/The+Real+ID+rebellion/2010-1028_3-6061578.html

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by sldrswyfe on Apr 9^th, 2007, 4:48pm

Wow...Im speechless and scared :-[

Title: Re: Wake up call (non-CH)
Post by Charlie on Apr 9^th, 2007, 7:52pm

Quote:

Whom else? Just pointing out that The Founding Fathers seem to have misjudged "The People's" character, ability and will to preserve what they fought & died for.

One of my history teachers told us that he read somewhere that the founding fathers didn't really trust that what they began would last more than a few generations. I suppose they were right in many ways. I think we did a pretty damn good job at it considering civil war, religious and racial upheaval, suffrage, two world wars and the information age.....Until the joy of the "Patriot Act" and its spinoffs.

It's a dangerous time folks.

A note on contacting legislators: If you send them some hard mail, they have to open it because they never know when some loot may be in an envelope. Makes sense to me. Large blocks of emails are only briefly scanned for something new. Not a lot of cause stuff gets real attention unless it's something unusual.

Charlie