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Title: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:04pm Just wanting to get your opinion please. I have a friend who is now in his early 30s. He has been suffering from major depression and anxiety and has had very poor health for many many years to the degree that he had not been able to work . I finally convinced him to seek professional help and he is seeing a psychologist as well as a psychiatrist. One of the issues that came out of the sessions was that when he was 13 -14 years old, his mother lived with a hard core drug addict who was injecting cocaine in front of him and his younger step sister. My friend hated drugs and was very upset to see blatant drug use in his own home. He complained to his mother who basically told him " too bad ". On top of that, when this druggie partner got high on cocaine he would beat my friend up black and blue. His mother was well aware of the beating but did nothing about it. After the 3rd or 4th time being beaten up badly, my friend ran away from home. He refused to go back home so Child Protection Agency was called. They arranged for a face to face discussion between him and his mother. His mother asked him if she left the drug user boyfriend would he come home and he said no so she gave him up and stayed with the boyfriend. My friend was going to be given to a foster home when his grandparents stepped in and offered to raise him. Unfortunately, there was no follow up on his case. My friend didnt have a good life living with his grandparents either and 2 years later he went back to living with his mother again. By this time, his mother had left the druggie partner but then she got herself into a string of relationships with equally unsuitable partners, many of them were physically violent. As the result she herself developed severe depression and became neglectful to her 3 children. The doctors have been trying to point it out to him that because of these events that he turned out the way he was, depressed, anxious, sick and unable to function in the society. They pointed out to him that he was abused and neglected as a child by his mother and her partners and that he would need to work through these issues to be able to get better. In particular, he would need to face his mother with these issues to complete the psychotherapy process. Unfortunately, my friend still lives in denial. He argued with the doctors that he wasnt abused, that those incidences have nothing to do with how he is at present. He argued that being beaten up then was normal. He refused to face his mother with these issues. In the meantime, he continues to be very depressed and unwell and still not able to function. He insisted that there must be some physical illnesses that is making him unwell and that the doctors have failed to treat him for them. In my opinion, he will not be able to get better until he acknowledge the facts that he was abused as a child and thats what has made him the way he is now. I believe that only by acknowledging this that he will be able to start the healing process. What do you think? Was what happened to him classifiable child abuse in your view? Please help, I appreciate all comments. Thanks heaps. Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BarbaraD on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:15pm Yeah he was abused, but until he faces it and admits it, he ain't gonna get better. The hardest part is facing reality. Denial is the easy part. Gives you an excuse. (That wasn't meant to be harsh - just a fact). Unfortunately, unless he admits it and gets help, he'll probably turn out to be an abuser. That usually happens. Great society we live in .... but what's the answer... Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by taraann on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:16pm Of course that is physical/mental/emotional abuse and neglect. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:19pm No question at all in my mind - that was child abuse. What a horrific childhood he had and like Barb says - until he does something to deal with the issues of his past - his future may always be clouded. Carol |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Gator on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:33pm Quote:
The guy abused the kid. The mother was guilty as an accessory to the crime. It would be tempting to give the mother a harsher punishment than the boyfriend. It could also be argued that because the Child Protection Agency didn't file charges against the boyfriend and mother on behalf of the child, they were accessories after the fact. IMHO, of course. 8) |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:34pm Yup!!! Definitely abuse, on several levels. And his apparent refusal to accept it, and face it, leads me to wonder, does he really WANT to get better? Or is he still too traumatized to face up to his mother? Chuck |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Mosaicwench on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:47pm No doubt about it - it's abuse on many levels. It's also more AND less than many other people have faced and accepted and gotten on about their adult lives. I don't mean to be harsh, truly I don't. But until he moves past it in whatever way is suitable to him, it will continue to eat him alive. God bless you BB, for taking such an active interest in his mental health. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by alienspacebabe on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:03pm Abuse? Hell yes! I'm surprised they're pushing him to confront his mother. Sometimes it's nearly impossible for the abused to do that. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:03pm Thanks everyone for you comment, I really appreciate it. My dilemma is that I am the only person ( apart from the psychologist and the psychiatrist at a later stage ) that he has opened up to and told the truth. Apparently he didnt tell Child Protection the whole truth and that was why the boyfriend and the mother wasnt charged. I feel that I have a duty as a friend whom he trusted enough to open up to, to help him going through this ordeal to get better. I knew his mother so I tried to approach her to explain to her some of his pain ( I got his permision to do this ) and to almost beg her to help him by making it easier for him to discuss these issues with her. Well, I got verbally abused by her. She accused me of trying to "turn her son against her" and insisted that she had always been a most loving, caring mother to him. Needless to say, I gave up talking to her since. I still dearly love to be able to help him. Underneath all this pain is a most beautiful, gentle, loving soul. However, I am at a loss as to what else I could do for him. Should I try to continue to talk to him about these issues ( talking about them tend to cause him great anxiety ) until maybe one day he can see the truth? Or will it be better that I let him go and pray that one day he will wake up to himself? Thanks for your advices. Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by chewy on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:07pm Quote:
Your kidding right? |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:09pm on 03/14/07 at 22:03:27, alienspacebabe wrote:
They are not pushing him to confront his mother as much as in accepting that she had failed him big time as a mother and that he needs to break free from the belief that what she and her boyfriend did was not seriously wrong. He still believes that he deserved to be beaten up. He believes that the only thing the boyfriend did wrong was to use drug and the only thing his mother did wrong was to live with a drug user. He also believes that she had been punished enough by "losing" her son for 2 years. Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:10pm on 03/14/07 at 22:07:21, chewy wrote:
What do you mean Chewy? I am not kidding anywhere at all in the whole thread. I am simply asking for your opinion. Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Charlie on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:27pm I pretty much like what Gator wrote. I'm not all that keen on his having a pow wow with what passed for his mother. Separation makes sense from here. I'm not sure that "confronting" her would make any positive difference. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by broomhilda on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:36pm on 03/14/07 at 21:33:09, Gator wrote:
IMHO, one needs all the facts before making statements like this against CPS workers, as Annette has come back and said this young man did not report all the facts to CPS, theres always more to a story before passing judgement, IMHO.... Anyhow, in all due respect Annette, you are a caring and loving friend, not a therapist, best you can do and I think you should do is be there for him, the issues he is facing are classic to a child being abused, all of them, if he wants help he will reach out and hopefully gets the therapeutic supports he needs . |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:52pm I try not to be a doctor to him, which is something very hard for me to do as it just comes to me so naturally. I actually have tried to "back out" many times and told him that he should also get himself a good GP so that the GP would be able to follow up his case. I felt that I dont have enough experience to handle such a complicated case as his. But he refused to seek out a GP saying that he found it very hard to trust anyone. Its hard for me to not think as a doctor, thats why I am posting here asking for your advices and relying on your wisdom. Would you say that I should just let him be and let him deal with it in his own way, regardless of how long it will take and how sick he is in the mean time? And if he drops off from therapy ( which he was going to do but I persuaded him to continue ) then let it be too? How "proactive" should I be if I am not his doctor and just his good friend ? Is putting pressure on him to be more active in seeking treatments/help the right or wrong thing to do? Thanks again. Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by lionsound on Mar 14th, 2007, 11:02pm YES, he needs to come to terms with his abuse. YES, he needs to do it in HIS OWN TIME. If he's been stuffing it for this long and still believes he's not abused then he is trying to undue over TWENTY YEARS of sh*t, not just a childhood. It may take many years. YES he needs you! not to lecture but to be there and listen. YES he needs therapy and he needs to feel SAFE there. This could take a very long time for him to trust a therapist. and that's okay. If he is pushed too fast in treatment he will balk. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by georgej on Mar 14th, 2007, 11:17pm on 03/14/07 at 22:52:03, BB wrote:
Annette, it seems to me that this is the immediate decision that you have to make regarding your friend. Will you act as his doctor, or as his friend? I don't see how it could be possible to act as both. If you choose to act as one or the other, the decisions you make following that choice will follow different paths. The only suggestion that I have is that you choose one or the other, and follow the logic that results from that choice. In this particular situation, the most effective of the two might be to act as his friend. Just my opinion. Best always, George |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Jimi on Mar 14th, 2007, 11:30pm I think Andrea and George have given pretty good advice based on just what I have read. You might want to send Eric a pm and see what his thoughts are on this. He is the one that might have a better understanding on the best role for you to take at this point. Thanks for sharing with us. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Gator on Mar 15th, 2007, 12:02am on 03/14/07 at 22:36:05, broomhilda wrote:
IMHO, one who is looking at the situation from a higher vantage point should resist the temptation to fault those acting on incomplete information when they had no way of knowing the information was incomplete. Asking for opinions on a situation without giving all the facts is a useless exercise that will have people jumping through emotional hoops for no reason. (except maybe the entertainment of the person asking) No opinion in such a case would be true or valid. I can tell you I will be less likely to participate in this type of exercise in the future. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 15th, 2007, 12:11am I am sorry Mike I wasnt trying to withold information. Its hard to be able to include ALL the information in one original post, especially when its such a complicated case. If I was to post everything straight up I would need more than 10 full posts to be able to do so. I had to summarise things and posted what I thought was the main points then as people raise more questions then I would fill them in more. I really appreciated your point of view Mike, and I agree with you totally that in a way, Child Protection Agency could and should have done a better job. They could have made more extensive investigation rather just based on what the child said. They should have the experience to know that the abused child is not likely to be able to tell all. But most of all, they failed to follow up the case to see how he fared after he was given to his grandparents. There was no counselling offered to him nor his mother. Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by purpleydog on Mar 15th, 2007, 12:35am As a friend, the best thing you can do at this point is to be there, and listen. Yes he was abused, but the important thing now is, how he chooses to deal with it. Don't push him with what you think he should do, just be there to listen if he wants to talk. He's geting help from 2 psych people, and he may start and stop therapy a few times before he is comfortable enough to stay with it. That's normal, as he reaches different stages in his life. I know it's hard to watch, but if you are there as his friend, he will appreciate you more than ever, and give him "a place to go" if he's ever feeling really down. It will take awhile to work this out, but if he sticks with it, more or less, he'll deal with it in his own time. Hang in there. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 15th, 2007, 1:06am Thank you everyone for your advices, it has helped me tremendously to see more clearly. Sometimes when you are in the midst of it you cant see very well. I realise that I need to decide which position I am going to take. I was sort of taking on the responsibility of a doctor because I was the first person he confided in. I managed to persuade him to go see the psychologist and the psychiatrist. I realise now that I can and should stop being in the role of his doctor. I wont be following up on his progress unless he wants to talk to me about it. I will ask him how things go and will be there to listen. I will encourage him to continue the treatments but wont push him to go if he decides to drop out. It is very very hard to stand by and watch. It actually hurts me a great deal to see him suffering so much emotionally. Whenever he talked about his mother he would get the shakes and hyperventilate. He also suffers from frequent headaches and indigestions which I am sure are stress related. I need to learn to deal with my emotion and my own pain in relation to the issue now, and learn to let go. Letting go for me is the hardest thing to do, somehow it makes me feel that I have failed him. God help me and help him. Thanks again all of you. You have all helped me a lot. :-* Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 15th, 2007, 5:49am Yup, I think your last post is the best you can do, at this point. I wish him luck!!! Chuck |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by chewy on Mar 15th, 2007, 6:26am Quote:
Child Abuse. What else could it be? |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by artonio7 on Mar 15th, 2007, 6:31am on 03/15/07 at 06:26:56, chewy wrote:
Compared to some upbringings? Enviable. But on a lighter note... yes it's Child abuse. ..... and he'll heal if and when he's ready to get the help he needs. You have done well in letting him know he has options, and he need not suffer. Now the ball is in his court. with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by minnie on Mar 15th, 2007, 9:58am on 03/14/07 at 21:04:00, BB wrote:
The below is just my opinion not knowing all the details.I guess this is what they call armchair quarterback ? This caught my eye how are the other kids doing? maybe sitting together for group session might open eyes.He might deny how bad it was for him but hearing the same things happening to brothers and or sisters might put him enough out of the situation to see the abuse through different eye. also if he's in denial he may not be telling his doctor everything he's telling you.I think you've recieved some good advice.you can listen but healing must come at his time and with outside proffessional help.he needs you as a friend and you sound like a great one........ God bless our children and keep them safe from these horrid childhoods we unfortanately know happens too often :'( Minnie |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by BB on Mar 15th, 2007, 12:30pm on 03/15/07 at 09:58:53, minnie wrote:
I dont know the other children at all. He has a step sister and a step brother. He was the only one who was physically abused though, I guess because he was from a different father? From what I heard his step brother is unemployed sitting on his bum playing XBox all day. His step sister is still living with the mother. They dont talk to one another so I guess group session is out. Child abuse is a real problem in our society. The cost and the pain of it goes much deeper than a bad bruise. Annette |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Mac_Muz on Mar 15th, 2007, 2:10pm BB, IF you changed drugs to booze that would be excatly how I was raised. These guys would beat my mother, next my little brother and me last because i was bigger and fought back. At about 7 I shot one of those men in the back with a kids target bow while he was beating my brother. I left home at 14 to live in the streets of Boston. In those days there were no agencies. I did get sent to see a shirnk and by then I was old enough for motorcycles and so we talked about motorcycles... I think the shirnk may have learned something... This guy facing his mother who is likely painting a rosey picture and in denial isn't going to do more than piss him off... My mother still wastes air and I am 55. Your friend has to pull his boots up by himself and decide who and what he is going to be and reject or not what life style he has... So far I haven't seen one Govt agency that functions.. You get a bunch of paper pushers who can't do a bloomin thing except tick off papers, and do nothing. They don't care because they get paid and can go home to a nice place eat dinner watch the tube and go to bed. The next day they get up and go to a boring job, where they don't have the power, money or faciltiy to real help in any meaningful way... So the one thing you can do is don't enable this guy and just drop the topic. You might mention what ever he does is what ever he does. It is his choice to get it right, or just drag on suffering... No one can do this for him. |
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Title: Re: Would you consider this to be child abuse? Post by Sandy_C on Mar 15th, 2007, 8:15pm on 03/14/07 at 21:04:00, BB wrote:
Abused, absolutely yes. No question. His problem throughout his childhood, and still to this day is that he believes that the abuse he received was "normal". Until he understands that nothing that was done to him, phycically, mentally, or emotionally was "normal", I'm very afraid that he won't be able to accept the help that he needs. If he believes that everything was "normal", in my opinion, he believes that he was a bad boy, and deserved what he got. Unless he can be convinced that nothing he ever did deserved the treatment he received, he's in for a lifetime of depression. Bless you for being there for him. He needs all the help he can get. And, yes, I think you should continue to make every effort to talk with him, even though it's hard for him. Maybe someday, you might be the one to get through. Sandy |
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