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Title: The Death Penalty Post by UN solved on Mar 11th, 2007, 11:57am http://www.wlky.com/news/11225005/detail.html SAN ANTONIO -- A San Antonio woman who police said has confessed to killing her two children is being charged with capital murder. Valerie Lopez, 19, was arrested Saturday, along with her boyfriend after a four-day manhunt ended. Lopez's boyfriend, Jerry Salazar, 28, has been charged with injury to a child by omission. Police said he knew Lopez was abusing her children. Authorities said Lopez told investigators that she beat her 18-month-old daughter, Sariyah Garcia, to death on Christmas Eve. They said she also confessed to killing her 4-month-old son, Sebastian Lopez, two months later when she rolled over him. Police said Lopez wrapped both bodies in plastic bags and hid them under her house. The neighbors discovered the decomposing bodies Tuesday, while trying to pinpoint the source of a foul odor they had been smelling for as long as two weeks. Lopez continued life as usual, having a birthday party for Salazar and buying him roses and chocolates for Valentine's Day, the San Antonio Express-News reported. The couple told friends and neighbors that a dead animal was causing the stench around the triplex complex. They also told their friends that children were staying with their grandmother, the paper reported. "It didn't seem like it bothered her or him," Tony Serenil, 41, Salazar's cousin and a tenant at the complex told the paper. "Like if those children never existed." An affidavit for an arrest warrant said Lopez admitted to police that her daughter would not stop crying, so she repeatedly struck Sariyah "about the head and body." The warrant said that after the alleged beating, the child was unresponsible. "Instead of calling for medical attention, (she) wrapped (Sariyah) in a blanket, wrapped the blanket with tape and placed the child in a trash bag," the document said. It went on to say Lopez put the trash bag in a duffel bag and hid it under the home. Her bail's been set at $10 million. "For whatever reason, evil lurks in some individuals and they kill children," District Attorney Susan Reed said. "But we can't stand by and wash our hands of it." Reed plans to seek the death penalty against Lopez. The paper reported that when Lopez was 15 years old she was accused of punching her 9-month-old daughter, Alexis Ramirez, in the chest with a closed fist. Lopez was convicted in juvenile court of assault on a child, the paper reported. Lopez and Alexis were later placed in a foster home by Child Protective Services after Lopez said she had been abused, according to the paper. Lopez then gave birth to a son, Jeovoni Lopez, the following year. He was eventually placed in the same foster home. The paper reported that Lopez ran away from the foster home in January 2005, leaving both children behind. Those two children were later were adopted. Lopez then gave birth to Sariyah in October 2005. CPS was notified later of alleged charges of child abuse against Sariyah. But when they met with Lopez, she had other reasons for the child's bruises. CPS left the child in the home, the paper reported. Neighbors, angry with the agency, believe it failed the children by not doing a thorough investigation. Over the weekend, someone spray painted "Shame on CPS" on a wooden board and nailed it to the complex. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Lobster on Mar 11th, 2007, 12:27pm Yep... no reason for her to be using up our oxygen any longer. Now did I read that right? 19 years old? 4 kids? Another one of those who thinks her uterus is a clown car. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Sean_C on Mar 11th, 2007, 10:45pm on 03/11/07 at 12:27:21, Lobster wrote:
No argument there with me bro. Sean.............................. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by artonio7 on Mar 12th, 2007, 2:26am ok... This story has really turned my stomach. As radical as it may sound... Imposing involuntary reversible sterilization on everyone who reaches puberty may not be such a bad idea.... At the age of 30 if you've taken the required number of parenting courses, pass the appropriate number of tests and show a certain level of financial security and social stability... then you can apply to have the sterilization reversed. Until then... you shouldn't have the right to reproduce. A child's life and care is much too precious to be given over to the unqualified. Sadly now days there are far too many instances where the courts have to become involved after these tragedies occur, and far too many children are in the care of people who are not worthy or capable of even owning a dog. I'm really getting sick of the way these animals treat their young. ok... I vented. with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by BB on Mar 12th, 2007, 3:17am on 03/12/07 at 02:26:05, artonio7 wrote:
I agree with you Tony. I personally know of some mothers who should not ever be allowed to have children. Even if those abused children survive, their lives are pretty much f**ked up! Gee, thats the first time I have ever sworn in a public forum. Guess I have vented too! Annette |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 12th, 2007, 7:30am on 03/12/07 at 02:26:05, artonio7 wrote:
You know, as radical as it may sound, my mama never had parenting classes and I didn't take any. I turned out *okay* and my daughter turned out to be an exceptional individual. Also, if we waited until we could *afford* children, don't imagine most of us would ever have children. That being said, given that this girl was already in foster care with two small children, why in the hell didn't someone try and talk her into using some form of birth control that wouldn't depend on *her* cooperation (thinking IUD or shots). 'darlin |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by BarbaraD on Mar 12th, 2007, 10:06am I'm with you Delta. My mama didn't know about parenting classes and neither did I. I'm a little warped, but turned out ok and my son is a productive member of society and acts sane most of the time. CPS is ok up to a point - but they say they're overworked and just can't check out everything, so kids fall thru the cracks. Then the courts get to get in on the act. I hate stories like this and this one is not the only one on the news tonight. There's just too many kids being abused and killed. Seems like CPS only goes after the parents who are "correcting" their children and acuse them of abuse. The abusers keep on and on. there's just something wrong with our system that lets people keep doing these things. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 12th, 2007, 2:32pm CPS really dropped the ball on this one. "CPS was notified later of alleged charges of child abuse against Sariyah. But when they met with Lopez, she had other reasons for the child's bruises. CPS left the child in the home, the paper reported." Now, common sense would tell me that this girl had already lost two children to the system (one had been abused). Wouldn't it stand to reason that CPS should have been alert to the fact that this girl was already in the system as an abuser? So what if she had *explanations*? She should have been, at the very least, required to attend parenting sessions as a condition of keeping the little girl. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by fubar on Mar 12th, 2007, 3:13pm That woman is the problem, not CPS. Why is it that when evil people do bad things, we look for OTHER people to blame? Why villify the CPS people? They are there to help kids, and I'm sure they do their level best. What a wonderful profession to be in. This woman is evil. Focus your anger on her if you must have anger about it. The Fu has spoken. :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by BarbaraD on Mar 12th, 2007, 3:34pm You're right Fu.... The woman is evil and should not be allowed to do this again. Oh, she's only 19 == tough! She should have thought about that when she was killing those innocent kids. There's been so much of this lately (even had one down here in Texas not far from where I live) - kill their kids because God told them to or they had post-partum depression -- sorry Charlie -- there's NO excuse. I have very strong feelings on what should be done to anybody who harms a child but especially mothers. The death penalty is too easy in my opinion. But bleeding hearts say these women are "sick" and should be treated for an illness. So juries give them "not guilty because of insanity" -- and they go for treatment and get out to do it all over again. They should never be allowed to return to the human race. Most women who've ever had a child has had post-partum depression and we cried a lot. But we sure as hell didn't kill our kids. UGHHHHH! I just get so angry about this abuse. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by BB on Mar 12th, 2007, 3:54pm If you are "caught" being cruel to animals either by abusing them or neglecting them to the point of physical and psychological harm, you are forbidden by laws to own another pet again, let alone keeping the one you have abused. If you are "caught" being an irresponsible driver who either causes accident or neglects to keep your car road worthy, you are forbidden by laws to drive one. There are laws to prevent evil and irresponsible people from causing further damages to an animal and to other people, but there is no laws to stop those from producing and keeping more children in their "care"! WTF ? >:( Annette |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Cerberus on Mar 12th, 2007, 6:02pm Can I PULEEEZE throw the switch?! Better yet, may I please off this broad with my bare hands?! Sick, twisted, sadistic, abusive f*cking sleeper... I would expound on this epithet, but there are no adjectives sufficient enough to express my point. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Charlie on Mar 12th, 2007, 8:19pm Quote:
Yer right Fub. Charlie |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by AussieBrian on Mar 12th, 2007, 8:27pm Personally I'm against capital punishment bit I'm also the first to admit it's a great deterrent. No-one executed for their first offence has gone on to commit further crimes. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Charlie on Mar 12th, 2007, 8:36pm I disagree that it's a deterrant. I don't like it either Brian. Hasn't been an execution in my state for 43 years, I believe. Charlie |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Paul98 on Mar 12th, 2007, 10:18pm on 03/12/07 at 20:36:14, Charlie wrote:
Think about this; The release of a convicted murderer that kills again....who is to blame? The murderer or the state? The guy in Rochester ~ 12-15 years ago... Released from prison after ~15 years. I think the last count for him was about 3 women dead found in the Erie Canal. -P. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 12th, 2007, 11:07pm :o. sorry, but its just too efficent for me. where does it stop? as a law making administration, it has an obligation to "hear"/ "understand", the reasons, for what is a social problem. dont we as "ch", sufferes have to endure a similar bias with the drug cos ? no !, if you make laws, you need to understand the people your making them for. NOT, make them to justify - - ? - - greed ? woops, may well be "raveing on", a bit here. appologies. andrew. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 13th, 2007, 3:39am Bullshit! Utter and total freaking bullshit! Murdering children is not a social problem. Society is not at fault because someone decides to kill their kids or anyone else. This is why we have an ever increasing problem with crime and delinquency - it's always someone else's fault. We have a bunch of bleeding hearts blaming the parents, the school, the government, everyone but the person who committed the crime. It's not poor little Johnny's fault that he killed someone to take his tennis shoes. He couldn't help himself. You know he was an abused child, right? That kid shouldn't have had those shoes in the first pace. Bullshit. If being abused as a child is a valid reason for killing someone, then I should be a mass murderer. What ever happened to personal responsibility? As to the death penalty, if a person is so incorrigible that he or she can never be trusted in society again, then I see no reason to spend tax dollars feeding, clothing, educating and entertaining them for the rest of their lives. I'm thinking this bitch has killed enough kids and the scumbag boyfriend who knew about it and went on with his life as if nothing had happened should share an adjoining table. They can hold hands as the plunger is pushed and go to hell together. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by LeLimey on Mar 13th, 2007, 5:08am on 03/12/07 at 22:18:32, Paul98 wrote:
And how many other hundreds of thousands of similar cases can we lay at arsehole judges doors for being bleeding hearts and allowing these monsters out of jail?? Sadly a life sentence just doesn't mean life and in the process it makes "criminals" of the victim and their families who are the only poor bugger's GENUINELY serving a life sentence. It makes me sick to the stomach. >:( on 03/13/07 at 03:39:48, Gator wrote:
I couldn't agree more - AMEN. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 13th, 2007, 5:41am How about a forced hysterectomy, without pain killers or sedatives, with a grappling hook? Then a FULL life sentence of actually making little ones outta big ones (rock crushing) ... HARD, dirty, demeaning physical labor is what criminals need! AND no fancy tv or rights ... they LOST their rights to a cushy existence. Chuck |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 13th, 2007, 7:43am emotions run high, quite right, but no one in their right mind would perpitrate such horror. telling someone that if they do "this or that", they will get "that or this", does not work, just makes people more sneeky, and harder to catch. in the uk, its commonly beleved that when a young offender is sent to jail, they come out with more strings to their bow. career criminals. haveing them understand, and trying to understand would mean better laws and a more responsable society. andrew. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 13th, 2007, 8:02am I NEVER said that the woman herself wasn't responsible for her children's deaths. HOWEVER, it is someone elses responsibility to protect those children when she has already shown a pattern of abuse and irresponsibility. Thoses babies couldn't protect themselves from her, so who should have been there to make sure that she could NOT continue the abuse she had perpetuated with her other children? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 13th, 2007, 1:18pm 'darlin, my little rant wasn't about what you said. No, it's not CPS's fault that the kids are dead. The "mother" did that, but the system did let those kids down. I can guarantee that nearly 100% of the criminals will say they didn't do it. If that is the extent of the investigation, almost no one would get caught and be punished for their crime. My frustration is this mentality that there can be no punishment of crime until we understand the criminal and their motives. This girl was in a foster home because she was allegedly abused and therefore it is understandable that she would abuse and eventually kill her kids. We must feel sorry for the criminal and try to figure out why s/he commits the crimes s/he does. Again - bullshit of the highest grade. Mollycoddling the criminal enables and encourages the criminal and shits on the victim and will eventually lead to the breakdown of law and order. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Mac_Muz on Mar 13th, 2007, 1:46pm gee a touchy topic and the poster didn't get blasted to bits like I did.... cool Well I had me a hell ova ride last night, with our collective little friend, so I feel quailified to post and be tacky at that ! Fry the bitch... and any other flushin' things down toilets that don't belong down toilets, and don't stop there. Fry anyone convicted of murder reguardless of the weapon system. You can't "restore" these kinds of people, and we can't afford to keep them.... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Brewcrew on Mar 13th, 2007, 2:12pm on 03/13/07 at 03:39:48, Gator wrote:
It's called the Nanny State, Mike. Why should anybody take responsibility for anything anymore when our nanny is here to do that? Of course I'm being sarcastic (amazing how I feel like I have to point that out way too often). I spent awhile in the U.A.E. and Saudi Arabia back in the summer of 1991, and I was stunned to find out that you truly did not need to lock your car doors. Why? Because stealing is a crime that is punishable by losing your hand. The punishment isn't, by western standards, considered "appropriate," but it sure as hell works. Nobody steals there. An America where punishment is swift and "appropriate" is long gone, Michael. It's slowly headed toward either anarchy or socialism, but the rate is increasing. I sometimes wonder if our children or their babies will experience it in all its full-blown "glory." |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Mac_Muz on Mar 13th, 2007, 2:37pm on 03/13/07 at 14:12:35, Brewcrew wrote:
no yer not, you mean every word of it! ;;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Brewcrew on Mar 13th, 2007, 2:40pm on 03/13/07 at 14:37:22, Mac_Muz wrote:
Well, the sarcastic comment was pointing backwards to the previous sentence. The rest of it - yeah, I meant it! ;;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by thebbz on Mar 13th, 2007, 3:30pm There is a reason animals eat their young. They are F$#^#% in the head. We had a cat that ate her litter. I shot her. I do not agree with the death penalty. It would be more appropriate to subject her to constant observation of other mothers loving their babies. About 20 years of that ...then shoot her. Somebody flame you Mac? That couldn't have happened here! lol all the best jb |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Brewcrew on Mar 13th, 2007, 4:00pm on 03/13/07 at 15:30:20, thebbz wrote:
Only problem is the cost. Why incur the extra 20 years of keeping her at the public trough? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 13th, 2007, 4:39pm Ah, but the death penalty does work! Just ask Ted Bundy how many more women he will rape and kill! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Maffumatt on Mar 13th, 2007, 4:46pm bingo. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Mac_Muz on Mar 13th, 2007, 5:19pm yeah Brew thats what you say now..... Oh yeah I got my lesson, I know How To here now... ya know I'ld just dry up and go away if these friggin clusters would too.... ::) 'sides that I kinda like it in here, I know of no other site where people are so exurberant from |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Charlie on Mar 13th, 2007, 7:52pm Individual cases are easy. I feel much as the rest of you in a thing like this but almost all other western countries no longer have a dealth penalty. I just don't like it. Historically, it doesn't work. I have to admire the Catholics. At least they are consistant when in comes to abortion and death penalty. Fundamentalists like to pull switches. Schizophrenics. Never have been a fun bunch. Charlie |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 14th, 2007, 12:41am i dont mean to seem soft in the head, or the heart, and i certainly dont know where her head was, not sure i care much. but if we live in a society, its learning from its mistakes that will help it be more cohesive, and liveable in. cost ? make them work - hard, did no one harm. andrew. :). |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 14th, 2007, 1:33am Charlie, being pro death penalty has nothing do do with being a Fundamentalist, a religious fanatic or crazy. It is about keeping the worst society has to offer from killing, raping, abusing and molesting over and over again. Personally, I don't want my tax dollars going to feed, clothe, educate and entertain the scum of the earth for the rest of their natural lives. If they can never be allowed into society again, then they serve no purpose except to take up space someone else could be using. Andrew, all of a sudden it's okay to work them? That's a laugh. The sentencing to hard labor was done away with years ago when the bleeding heart mentality leeched into the prison system. Criminals are sent to prison AS punishment, not to BE punished. Being confined is punishment enough and we can't expect the poor unfortunate murderers, rapists, child abusers and molesters, drug dealers and common crooks to actually perform manual labor while incarcerated. So they have nothing better to do than to work out every day and become "supercriminals" or sit around for years having their every basic need with a few extras provided for at the expense of the system that put them there in the first place. How rich is that? They rob society blind and then society has to pay even more to keep them safely tucked away until they can be released to prey on society again. I'll tell you the system I like. It's the Japanese penitentiary system. While stationed in Japan, we had a couple dumbasses steal some ATV's from a dealership and were, of course, caught. I was sent to do a welfare check of the idiots once. The Japanese use the silent system. There is no speaking unless you are spoken to - not even to yourself. You are there to reflect on your crimes - to be truly penitent. The prisoners all wear simple garments and are fed a basic subsistence designed to keep them alive during their incarceration. Nothing more is provided by the state, except for essential medical care. The family of the prisoners are expected to provide anything above and beyond what the state provides. Those without family get the bare minimum. Of course, this was 17 years ago. I can only imagine that the bleeding hearts have struck there by now. Maybe a few years in a place like that would keep most first offenders from wanting to go back. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by LeLimey on Mar 14th, 2007, 4:23am Andrew we spent 40 bloody years paying for the bitch Myra Hindley to sit on her fat arse in a carpeted cell doing university courses out of the wazoo and having more priviledges than old age pensioners or war heroes. We're still paying for Brady and how long do you think we'll be paying for Rosemary West?? As for Ian Huntley, that bastard just got legal aid to fight another of his victims in court but the poor girl he abused has to pay her own way.. Justice?? BOLLOCKS! Are you happy that old people are struggling to live while those evil swine live a very comfortable life because I'm not! I'm sick and tired of the amount of repeat sexual offending that is allowed to happen. Its a disgrace. Its a mockery of the lives destroyed by it. I'm not sure about the death penalty alot of the time but I'm honest enough to admit if it was someone I loved who was butchered - ESPECIALLY a child I'd be baying for blood. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by artonio7 on Mar 14th, 2007, 4:49am on 03/14/07 at 04:23:58, LeLimey wrote:
Helen.... How do you really feel? Helen for president!!!!! What do you say folks?... We can amend a few of the sticky points of the constitution and have her up and running in no time flat. ______________________________________________________ A couple months ago... a young The infant was beaten by her boyfriend for crying during the super-bowl.... When she got home she found her 5 year old unconscious... he had a fractured skull a broken arm, a broken leg and several broken ribs. The man was arrested... she was arrested... and the last I heard her boyfriend keeps having accidents in jail. He seems to be of a clumsy nature as he's so far broken both of his legs, both of his arms, several ribs and I think he also somehow managed to bruise his crotch very badly. A lifetime of clumsiness would be suitable. with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 14th, 2007, 5:06am Awww. My heart bleeds purple panther piss for him. 8) When I worked as a prison guard (1984-87), the prisoners called the child molesters "Chicken Hawks" that or "Chester" as in "Chester the Molester." Child molesters/abusers do have a tough life once the general population finds out why they are there. They frequently become the target of abuse and outright assault and are sometimes killed, er have fatal accidents, at the hands of the other prisoners. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 14th, 2007, 5:11am on 03/14/07 at 05:06:21, Gator wrote:
OMG!!! It has been 893 years since I have heard that phrase!!! LOL BUT, I feel SO sorry for that fellow that Tony was talking about ... The poor thing!!!! Serves him RIGHT!!! Maybe next time he will trip and fall of the roof of a fifteen story building!!! The poor guy!!! (NOT) Chuck |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 14th, 2007, 8:04am nor did i want to seem as though i was part of the, lefty bleeding hearts constingency from the uk. the society were in, is crumbling. neighbourliness, is seen as prying. but its at that level, that change could be effected. certainly, flogging, killing, and the threat of, is not working, unless all we can do is "wait for the next victim". andrew. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by LeLimey on Mar 14th, 2007, 8:58am on 03/14/07 at 08:04:39, andrewjb wrote:
I know all those words were English but it made no sense to me |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Mac_Muz on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:46am on 03/14/07 at 08:04:39, andrewjb wrote:
Me either....... Andrew you wanna try that one again? At the begining I thought I was gettting the idea, but the more I read the more I couldn't begin to guess what that means... uh sorry about that... [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by UN solved on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:38am I didn't get flamed because I just relayed the story and never commented personally .... til now. I know the death penalty will not work 100% of the time, but I guarantee that it will work in some cases. Someone will be saved. Does that make it worth it ? My brother-in-law said the same thing about Saudi Arabia. People do not steal there. He said you could leave your car running with the doors open and cash and jewelery on the front seat and you wouldn't have to worry about it. Nobody wants to lose their hand in a (quick) punishment. Apparently, deterrents do work there. My personal belief: I think it depends on the circumstances. Each case is different. Remember Jeffery Dahmer? Does anyone remember what happened to him? Unsolved |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Brewcrew on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:42am on 03/14/07 at 10:38:16, UN solved wrote:
Yes. He went to prison and got the living shit kicked out of him. I think he was dead within a few years of entering prison. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by UN solved on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:59am If I remember correctly, Jeffery was beaten to death with a mop handle by another inmate that said god told him to do it. UNsolved |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 14th, 2007, 12:19pm Okay, so we say that the death penalty is not a deterrent (stay with me now). Are prison terms any more of a deterrent? So, the solution is........ |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 14th, 2007, 12:35pm The solution? First step, make a prison a DETERRENT, not a college campus dorm. Give the prisoners their rights: The right to be alive and breath, The right to have enough food, to sustain life. PERIOD. I like what Gator was telling us about: on 03/14/07 at 01:33:22, Gator wrote:
The above would make it a less than desirable place to live. Then see how many will be doing their damnest to stay OUT of prison! Chuck |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 14th, 2007, 1:12pm on 03/14/07 at 05:11:43, ClusterChuck wrote:
Well, since I'm feeing a bit like Methuselah today, that would be understandable. You're right - not much deterrent in being put up in a place where you might have it better that you had it on the outside (except for the ability to come and go as you please). I certainly can't afford all the educational and legal assistance they get. Hell, I don't even go to the doctor unless there is something majorly wrong with me. Can't afford to. There's too much thought goes into some stuff these days. There's no need to spend millions and millions of dollars on understanding the average criminal. Most crime is not caused by any large psycho-socio-economic problems. It's usually greed, jealousy, laziness or stupidity or a combination. You have something I want, I'll take it. Why work for it when I can get it from you. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Redd on Mar 14th, 2007, 1:37pm I can't recall the name of the guilty person, (50 some odd y/o man raped and killed a 9 y/o girl) was found guilty of this crime. The Defence is now trying to present brain scans which prove his "brain fuctions" are abnormal, and therefore he should not be sectanced to death, but be given life with no parole. The "insanity" arguement was not used as a defence, but now it's being used in sentancing? I think NOT!! Sane enough to know better and go through a full trial and be convicted means he's sane enough to be put to death. Hypocracy reins all over the place...and I'm ready to pull out my chest waders because it's really getting deep. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Mac_Muz on Mar 14th, 2007, 2:00pm My opinion of the system, is that the system is way to soft on hardened criminals, seemingly a basic catch and release system we use trout fishing just about. It is true you can have better life bennies in prison, I see that on the tv all the time.. I got hurt on the job and the lawyers scalped me too. I ended up in a tee pee for 1,095 days. During that time I got bit by a brown recluse, and I admitt considering punching a cop in the nose just to see a doctor. Instead I create my woods lore meds which only took 12 months for a cure.... :-/ Today we tolerate all sorts of low life doing about anything they please, while we prevent our selves from basic protection. No one doing any crime seems to have to stand up and take the responcibiltiy for it. So we end up with a wild and out of controll cost of a system the Govt can't afford. A new multi billion dollar prison is going up in Berlin NH right now.... All the poly tics are commending themselves and stand to gain $$$, but then once again "we" are all paying for it... No one living in Berlin wants anything to do with it, but it is said the jjob pool will be re-enforced by it.... yeah I heard that before... |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by JeffB on Mar 14th, 2007, 2:03pm Whatever happened to an eye for an eye? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by thebbz on Mar 14th, 2007, 2:59pm Hey Jeff, Ghandi said, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." What's up with that. jb |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Brewcrew on Mar 14th, 2007, 3:08pm on 03/14/07 at 14:59:35, thebbz wrote:
The flip-side of that is, instead of the whole world being blind, the guy who put my eye out gets to watch me stumble around for the rest of my life. So much for a level playing field. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by thebbz on Mar 14th, 2007, 3:12pm In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. ;;D jb only thing wrong with the death penalty is the fact that people make errors. I see nothing wrong with doing hard time. Hard labor, no amenities, no breaks on time. even trade for room and board. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Brewcrew on Mar 14th, 2007, 3:16pm on 03/14/07 at 15:12:23, thebbz wrote:
At least we know where to have 'em send the bill. ;) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by thebbz on Mar 14th, 2007, 3:31pm Yes I agree Brew...send the bill to Jeff [smiley=laugh.gif] jb I like the sheriff in Texas that makes the prisoners work off their bill at the jail with labor. That guy rocks. Took their TV away too exept for the news and weather..so they would know how to dress for work.If jail time was hard time there would be less people in them. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 14th, 2007, 5:14pm I say let the girl go. Maybe make her a judge. We in this country no longer consider life as sacred or even important when stacked up against people's idealistic morals. Tell me what to do with the mothers, as discussed below, that would gladly put the lives of millions of young women at risk of cancer, (including their own) just so they can retain the right to make their own children fear contracting cancer, if they do not abstain from sex? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070314/ap_on_re_us/cancer_vaccine_texas Tell me what to do with a panel of judges that would rather have a woman die in pain from a brain tumor, than be allowed to use state approved medical marijuana to stay alive and in less pain? http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03/14/med.marijuana.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories Kill two and get the death penalty. Kill and cause suffering in millions, and get elected. As Borat would say, "I love this country" Bobw |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Jonny on Mar 14th, 2007, 5:43pm on 03/14/07 at 17:14:52, Pinkfloyd wrote:
I may be wrong, but I dont think this thread has anything to do with the above ::) http://myspace-340.vo.llnwd.net/01476/04/34/1476724340_l.jpg ;;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Redd on Mar 14th, 2007, 5:43pm Let me just state this for the record. I am a cervical cancer survivor. It was caught in the early stages. However, I want to know more about the potential long term effects of this drug before I agree to have my daughter given it. You see, I am the product of the generation of female children who's mothers were given DES in the 60's. A drug to help prevent Miscarriage. It is now known to greatly increase the risks of both vaginal and breast cancers in the female offspring of the mothers who were given this drug. There is also a risk, yet far fewer, that developed premature vascular weakness of the vessles of the uterus and bladder, and have had to undergo premature hysterectomys due to the rupturing of these weakened vessles. I am one of those women. WHY on earth would I agree to put something into my teenage doughters body that, yes, may prevent some forms of cervical cancer, yet the long term effects of this drug are unknown? If she or any of her children were to come to suffer other diseases due to the decision I made today, I could hardly live with myself. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by JeffB on Mar 14th, 2007, 5:58pm I think we should build a wall around Montana and stick those fuggin inmates there. ;;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by thebbz on Mar 14th, 2007, 6:44pm Quote:
[smiley=spit.gif] We can call it southpark holding facilitie. Chewy (ol sausage hand)can be the warden. thanks for the laugh. jb |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 14th, 2007, 6:56pm on 03/14/07 at 15:12:23, thebbz wrote:
While that is true, what about those crimes that there is NO doubt about the conviction? As is Ted Bundy? Charles Manson? Richard Ramirez, The Night Stalker? John Wayne Gacy? Richard Speck? John Couey? In the state of Louisiana, a person convicted of the rape of a child under the age of 12 years old has an either or sentence, death or life with no parole. I think MS has a similar law (if I'm not mistaken, MS puts the death penalty on the table with forcible rape also). When we stop treating the criminal as the *victim*, then and only then, will justice be served. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Charlie on Mar 14th, 2007, 7:15pm Quote:
Ah....The old George Carlin idea. Pick a state not too populous, put up a big fence and replace the residents with child molesters, psychos, and murderers or perhaps each in different states. Cut a hole in the fence so they can get in and rape, torture and pound one another to a pulp. Put it on pay cable and watch the fun. Gotta admit that it has a perverse appeal. Actually, I wasn't suggesting that fundamentalists like to pull the switch. Although I'm as schizoid as anyone, I admire the Catholic consistancy, is all. There was an old idea set forth once that killers be placed in the closest uncomfortable prison to the victims so they can visit and beat the shit out of the perp every week. Anyway, you have to be careful because as satisfying as it may be, swift justice is very very dangerous. I'm 60 years old and I know that today's sentences, arrest procedures and treatment on all levels of suspects and convicts by law enforcement is much harsher than at any time in my life. We need something but I don't know what. Charlie |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by BB on Mar 14th, 2007, 7:33pm The only perpetrators who deserve a second chance are those who did not set out to harm others, who freely and quickly confessed to their crimes and who are genuinely prepared to repay for what they had done wrong. In this particular case, this evil woman set out to kill one child after the other, deliberately disposed of their bodies in such a way that they wouldnt be found and told lies about the childrens whereabouts to avoid being caught ... All this pointed to the fact that she wanted and planned to get rid of the children so that she could live with that sick boyfriend and not having to bear the responsibility of a mother. There was no remorse. Thats a double muder of the first degree. She deserves the death penalty. I dont believe that she is rehabilitable. Annette |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Maffumatt on Mar 14th, 2007, 7:42pm You reap what you sow. A person that would do that to their kids is no better than a rabid animal. Treat her as such. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:08pm on 03/14/07 at 17:58:57, JeffB wrote:
Actually, an idea that I have thought about for years for those opposed to the death penalty is to take an island in shark infested waters well out of swimming range of any inhabited mainland. Clear cut a zone maybe 100 yards deep from the shore all the way around the island. Heavily mine that zone. Put patrol boats around the island with instructions to shoot to kill, anyone that enters the clear zone. Chum the waters frequently enough to keep the sharks in the area. Parachute drop prisoners and supplies in and let them fend for themselves. No one from the outside is allowed to approach the island. Anyone found sneaking/snooping around in close proximity of the island becomes it's next inhabitants. No one other than prisoners with life sentences allowed on the island. It would be more expensive than just hanging the fockers, but cheaper than what we are doing now. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by thebbz on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:29pm Quote:
Why you fry them of course.http://bestsmileys.com/weather/3.gif |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 14th, 2007, 9:51pm on 03/14/07 at 21:08:49, Gator wrote:
Basically how the continent of Australia was settled by Europeans. The French did the same in French Guiana. ALSO, the way the legal system is presently set up, a death sentence is more expensive than a life sentence, due to the mandatory appeals, and what all the legal fineageling costs. Chuck |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Charlie on Mar 14th, 2007, 10:18pm Everything Chuck says is true. Also, the legal tangle if abortion is reversed and prosecuted would be historic and boggle the mind. Unbelieveable expense and legal mess. It would paralyze law eforcement. Charlie |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 14th, 2007, 11:25pm on 03/14/07 at 21:51:03, ClusterChuck wrote:
I'm not talking about a huge uncontrollable island. I mean a relatively small one that is well marked and easily controlled and patrolled just like a prison. I agree that the current cost of maintaining a death row inmate is more expensive than it should be. I think the actual costs are artificially inflated by people providing goods and services in the maintenance of the prisoners trying to line their pockets. Kind of like the $500 hammers discovered in military fraud investigations. An automatic review is a good idea. It provides one last effort to ensure that the right person is punished. I don't think anyone involved in the original investigation or prosecution should be involved in the review. There should be no legal finaigalling, no impassioned grandstanding, no emotional pleas and no browbeating of witnesses. Just an independent, impartial review of the facts of the case. If the facts of the case cannot stand on their own to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then the prisoner should not be on death row. If the review finds nothing questionable in the investigation and prosecution of the case and the evidence is sufficient to uphold the conviction and the sentence, then the prisoner should be executed immediately upon completion of the review. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 15th, 2007, 12:15am on 03/14/07 at 08:04:39, andrewjb wrote:
:). sorry for the delay, i work silly hours. i guess, i was trying to say that we need to take much better care of each other, we live on one globe. the woman is a mess. fucked up in a massive way. but what was she hopeing for ? not this iam sure. going to war, for the sake of peace, bafels me. andrew. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 15th, 2007, 7:44am Couey got the death pentaly ;;D |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Redd on Mar 15th, 2007, 8:23am I saw that on the news this morning. [smiley=sayyes.gif] |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 15th, 2007, 10:02am on 03/14/07 at 17:43:21, Jonny wrote:
Yes, you're right. You're wrong. It has everything to do with this thread. It's probably just over your head. Bobw |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Brewcrew on Mar 15th, 2007, 10:34am on 03/15/07 at 10:02:45, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Perhaps you could explain it to the rest of us over whose heads it seems to be going. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 15th, 2007, 1:31pm This issue should be in it's own thread, but I can see why Bob would think it is appropriate here. I think he's wondering how we can be so concerned about the actions of one person, yet be oblivious to the thousands or millions of people who are harmed by questionable decisions handed down by judges, governmental and religious officials on a daily basis. This girl killed her children with her bare hands. Judges, governments and religion kill by proxy for greed, power and control of the people. Basically, they hand down death sentences all the time. In this instance not mandating the HPV vaccine seems like a government issued death sentence for many young girls. If I'm wrong, let me know, Bob. As for the HPV vaccine: All the bullshit about religion aside, is is right for the government to force the vaccination of every female child in the country with a vaccine for which we do not know the long term effect and for a disease that can in many cases be controlled by keeping your pants on. To me it is an issue of how much control should a government have over it's people. Would you give forced penicillin vaccinations to everyone on Mondays, because you knew some of the kids had sex on Saturdays? After all, syphilis kills, too and nasty with it as well. The Texas decision does not outlaw the vaccine. It just keeps the government from mandating forced vaccination. The vaccine is still available so individual parents can have their daughters vaccinated if they so choose. From reading about this issue from various sources, it seems as much like a G$K power play as anything else - trying to get their new vaccine made mandatory before other drug companies can develop something similar. After all, if one state makes it mandatory, others will follow and where will the states be buying the vaccine? from Glaxo$mith (ching ching) Kline Anyways, there's my interpretation of Bob's post (right or wrong) and my opinion on the matter he brings into the conversation. YMMV |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by LeLimey on Mar 15th, 2007, 4:04pm on 03/15/07 at 13:31:39, Gator wrote:
We were talking about the actions of one sicko and Bob was talking about the actions of one judge (or panel - same thing in effect) Whether it was hundreds of people who's lives will never be the same because a family member or friend was brutally murdered or hundred's of thousands in the case of this judgement is almost immaterial. The point IS that until we all shout and stamp and holler and MAKE our governments do what we want they WILL ride roughshod over us. God gave us voices, if we don't use them then we only have ourselves to blame. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 15th, 2007, 6:36pm http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070315/ap_on_re_us/missing_boy;_ylt=AnqXwwz8XDI.5pMS3eGZQJdH2ocA |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by thebbz on Mar 15th, 2007, 6:41pm Quote:
the only thing required for evil to prevail, is that good people to do nothing. I'm just full of wit these days. all the best jb |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by UN solved on Mar 15th, 2007, 7:23pm 11 month old boy stabbed in the back by father :'( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070315/ap_on_re_us/toddler_stabbed;_ylt=Ag_i.Z9mQI2.ObAfoFZTPnRH2ocA UNsolved |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by UN solved on Mar 15th, 2007, 7:26pm 6 year old girl drowned, beheaded and remains thrown off bridge by her mother :'( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070315/ap_on_re_us/daughter_decapitated;_ylt=ArJVlh51RiSDQYgR54J3A0FH2ocA UNsolved It seems like I'm reading a sad story like this everyday. Does it happen this often everywhere or is it 'only in the USA' ?? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 15th, 2007, 11:49pm not here in the uk, thankfully. saying that, my young son "8", does not go to the park by him self, and the garden backs on to a park ! the horror stories seem to come round every few years . andrew. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 16th, 2007, 2:07am on 03/15/07 at 13:31:39, Gator wrote:
Exactly Gator, thank you. I had a long response ready to post but lost it. (Why don't I ever lose the short ones?) Until we decide as a nation to make some big changes, we will to try and eliminate these types of situations one death penalty at a time. Until we stop turning a blind eye to the bigger questions, these things will continue to happen, day in and day out, just as UnSolved points out. We allow special interest groups, whether they be government institutions, "religions", political organizations, big business, etc to seal the fate of thousands each day. We need to realize that we have all become part of some self-absorbed special interest group. We cry out for the life of a small child that makes the headlines, but think we are powerless when we read that Halliburton will take the billions made off our backs, and the lives of our soldiers, away to Dubai.....while thousands of small children wither on the vine in our streets. We allow "religious" groups to let children die because they don't believe in using modern medicine and would rather hang crystals over their foreheads. How many here cried out for the death penalty for the Scientologists that sat back and allowed Lisa McPherson to die in Florida? Might we be afraid that taking the "rights" of one religious group would hurt the freedoms of our own? We allow our governments to f*ck with the health, welfare and lives of our children every day.....all because they do so and tell us it's for our own good. Why did this young girl hide the bodies of her dead kids? Probably so she could continue to collect welfare for them over the next 18 years. Why did she kill them. I don't know. But I should care why she did. We won't be able to stop this cycle unless we stop the reasons behind these acts. Or at least minimize them as much as possible. Should she live or die? Not my call. Can we keep up with them all with the death penalty, one at a time? Do we care more about revenge or stopping it in the first place? If you care about the kids....you have to care about stopping it before they die or are abused. on 03/15/07 at 13:31:39, Gator wrote:
First of all, 80% of them, even the Christians, will NOT keep their pants on. So......who here wants to tell their kids it's their fault they got cancer because they should have kept their pants on? My point on this part was specifically about the religious "reasoning" behind not wanting to have their kids get the vaccine. You can bet that those are the loudest voices of opposition. What a wonderful "opportunity" to be able to scare their kids into abstinence. This is a virus. We give our kids and elderly brand new vaccines all the time. Every time there is a new strain of bird flu.....they start injecting kids as soon as a new formulation, that works against the new strain, is available. They don't wait until there is enough for everyone. Those of us thought to be strong enough to live through it...don't get it. Who waits years for long term effects on vaccines? By the time its been around a year, they need a new vaccine. When next years version of bird flu comes around, who here will be telling their 80 y.o. mother that she better wait for results of long term testing? Its a good thing people didn't wait 10 years before giving their kids the polio vaccine. Who waited 10 years for a TB vaccine? Sometimes we force parents to make the right decision to protect their children. Had we done a little more "forcing" with Valerie Lopez, her kids might still be alive and we could be talking about something else. Sometimes, kids are born to bad parents. Do we allow all parents to make whatever decisions they choose, or do we just allow the ones that happen to be in our own special interest group, to choose. Do you think Valerie would have had her kids get the vaccine? Would she have even sent them to school? Bobw |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 16th, 2007, 2:15pm :), rave on pinkfloyd. there doing an interesting thing here in the uk. when children enter the school system, from nursery places their in contact with "persons", that have been police checked, and are trained, or in training, with matters relating to schooling, in this way difficulties can be addressed early, ether with the child or parents. "from the mouthes of babes", is the old saying, truth must come. broadly, a child must attend school, there, their pushed, [too hard], imho , to meet educational targets. however, in defence, it does highlight difficulties and good advice, imo, given. most get their grades. thoses that dont, are going to, is the ethos. generally highlighting parental difficulties, at which point their encouraged to attend parental/citizen classes, sometimes required to by the courts. early days yet, but at least were being mugged by a better educated thug ! :) |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Gator on Mar 16th, 2007, 3:22pm on 03/16/07 at 14:15:38, andrewjb wrote:
http://www.brightok.net/~mnjday/caveman1.jpg Yeah, I have a comment... What? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by LeLimey on Mar 16th, 2007, 4:06pm If you work it out Mike - let me know eh?! |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 16th, 2007, 5:53pm Can anyone see my quizzical expression through their computer? |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by LeLimey on Mar 16th, 2007, 6:13pm on 03/16/07 at 17:53:39, deltadarlin wrote:
See it? We've cloned it LOL |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 17th, 2007, 7:38pm :), sorry for the delay, dident know what to say. hope this helps. theres a file created on every child that enters the education system, that followes them till they enter the work place. held together by a stringent application of the truency laws. andrew. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by LeLimey on Mar 18th, 2007, 2:43am Um Andrew, school records always have and always will exist - where the hell do you think they generate reports from?! If you seriously think that kids records are based on truancy figures then you ought to start taking more water with it. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by deltadarlin on Mar 18th, 2007, 9:53am Inquiring minds still want to know what andrew's post has to do with the previous posts or the gist of the whole thread. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Callico_Kid on Mar 18th, 2007, 4:19pm I've tried to stay away from this thread for quite a while now, but have to voice a small opinion. The purpose of legal justice is retribution. There is no way for justice to be proactive. If it were proactive we would arrest people before they commit the crimes. This obviously cannot be done. While I respect the opinions of those who don't agree with capitol punishment I must strongly disagree. It is true that there have been abuses in the past with capitol punishment, and it is also true that there have been mistakes made, but a careful check of legal records, at least here in the states, will show that errors happened in a minute percentage of the cases. I agree with someone who said that we need an impartial review of the case by those disassociated with it before it is carried out, but then in heinous cases it needs to be carried out. Our current penal system is not working. We keep building more and more prisons, but the crime rates are not decreasing in real numbers. Do I advocate capitol punishment on a wide scale? Absolutely not! However, when one takes another's life with intent it should be carried out promptly. Jerry |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by Melissa on Mar 18th, 2007, 4:47pm Just because I like a good tangent... Masculine side of HPV Human papillomavirus is common in men too. Studies are underway to determine if a male vaccine is needed. http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-hpv19mar19100914,1,2907724.story?coll=la-headlines-health |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by andrewjb on Mar 18th, 2007, 6:30pm ;;D. no, not on truancy alone. but since oct 1996, when the department of education brought out their paper, children or parents that are having difficulties with educational targets, are assesed and offered extra classes. if the child doesent attend school regularly, or breaks the law, the parents can be required to enter in to a parent contract, or / and, attend parenting classes by the courts. so as to ensure a child gets a good eduation. andrew. |
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Title: Re: The Death Penalty Post by E-Double on Mar 18th, 2007, 8:39pm "The major problems of the world today can be solved only if we improve our understanding of human behavior" The ultimate mind....http://tiger.towson.edu/~jcanav1/portfolio/images/B.F.%20Skinner.jpg If our legal system were not based halfassedly on behavioral principals and followed appropriately, we would not have such problems! http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1971/1101710920_400.jpg still holds true. Do a little reading and it is very easy to understand why the system does not work. E |
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