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Title: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 12:44pm Quote:
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 12:47pm If I were a communist, I would feel cheated. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 12:51pm Because the people on Wall Street have been working so hard, but the average American has not? Being opposed to kleptocracy doesn't make a person a communist. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 12:56pm If I thought there was something unfair about it, and I was one of those who worship the almighty dollar, I'd become one of them. Since I'm not, it doesn't bother me in the least. It's the way capitalism works. Get over it. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:01pm You're welcome to believe that these Wall Street bonuses are the result of the financial wizards somehow creating value, not skimming from the workers and common shareholders. And I have some stock in a bridge company you might be interested in -- this stock is set to sky-rocket!! |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:08pm ::) |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:11pm :'( me a river. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Kevin_M on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:13pm Well afterall, the larger brokerage houses have been establishing offices in the Middle East, where the huge abundance of petro-dollars accumulated that could not be possibly imagined what to do with in the past couple years needed guidance. Bonuses all-around. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Paul98 on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:17pm Funny how I have never really worried if someone else earns more than me or if sombody else won the lottery. If I don't have enough to pay the bills I either spend less or earn more. I think my neighbor can do the same. If he wants the CEO pay can apply for the job. Nobody said life is fair. -P. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 1:39pm Ok, if you all think that life is life, and there is no use talking about things we think are wrong, STFU about Ted Kennedy!! I realize that the right-wing talking points say it is time to bring up Kennedy's past because he is leading opposition to the Presidents Iraq plan. But this is America, and Ted gets relected election after election. If you don't like it, move to Kyrgizistan! (The fact that someone else wins the lottery doesnt bother me - I understand how it works. If my neighbor works hard and gets a raise or promotion or new job, great for him. But what is happening here is that the upper 1% is taking an ever larger share of the pie, and it has nothing to do with merit or worth or how people actually work. They are simply in a position to do so. Couple that with a tax system that shifts the burden to the 98% in the middle and lower end, and it changing America in a way that is neither inevitable or desirable. ) |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:10pm on 01/10/07 at 13:39:38, floridian wrote:
The people of Massachusetts get what they deserve. They elect him, so they get to hitch their cart to his ass - uh, horse. Just like the idiots that live here in Wisconsin. They deserve Kohl and Feingold. I didn't vote for any of them, but I believe in the democratic process, so I can either continue to live here and accept the consequences, or I can leave. And if you don't like the way capitalism works, then either: a) propose a system that's better, b) run for office so you can punish evil big business, c) become a Wall Street big shot so you can share the wealth, or d) move to Kyrgizistan. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:31pm And another thing - don't tell me to STFU about Ted Kennedy. I merely made a statement of indisputable fact: "All my guns combined have killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car." Please show me where I am wrong. Once you've determined that you cannot, then you can STFU. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Mosaicwench on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:35pm on 01/10/07 at 13:39:38, floridian wrote:
Could you provide a source for those figures? |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:56pm on 01/10/07 at 14:35:02, Mosaicwench wrote:
Sure, there are plenty of sources - lemme dig. I did not say that the middle and lower income tax payers shoulder 98% of the burden. What I am saying is that under the tax reforms of the past 6 years, the top 2% got nearly half of the tax cuts (in terms of dollars) and are paying a lower percent, and the burden is being shifted to the other 98%. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 2:58pm on 01/10/07 at 14:10:13, brewcrew wrote:
Sure, although proposing a better system (or reforming the current one, which is all I suggest) requires starting with a discussion of what's wrong today. And the series of Enron-styled heists, pension system failures (today it was Delta Airlines), insider trading and back-dating options to cheat the average investor, and the crisis in health care all provide good starting points. These are all market failures, they disprove the dogmatic belief that the market will always lead to optimal results. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:01pm on 01/10/07 at 14:56:31, floridian wrote:
Heavens, no. We wouldn't want to mislead anyone now... |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:13pm on 01/10/07 at 15:01:17, brewcrew wrote:
Nope. I stand by my statement that the tax burden is being shifted away from the top 1-2% towards the rest of us. And you are unable to disprove that because it is a fact. Still mad at me because I questioned your science credentials? Waah! |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:32pm Here's a non-partisan Congressional Budget Office study headed by a Republican that found that the share of taxes payed by the top 1% was dropping, while the share of taxes paid by the middle class was rising: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5689001/ Another CBO study that found that capital income is becoming more concentrated at the top: http://www.cbpp.org/1-29-06tax2.pdf No shortage of other studies that have shown that over the past decade, worker productivity has increased very nicely, while real income has has been close to flat. Here's one: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/28/business/28wages.html?ex=1314417600&en=c60dea87527e4510&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 3:57pm on 01/10/07 at 15:13:14, floridian wrote:
My credentials are not even known to you, buddy. It is your socialism that has me concerned. It appears to me that you truly believe in your heart of hearts that life can somehow be equal and fair and just for everyone. In order for that to happen, evil (i.e., greed) must be taken out of the equation. I don't see that happening anytime soon. The fact remains that the top 1% of earners paid about 37% of federal income taxes and 25% of all federal taxes in 2004. The top 20% of income earners paid about 67% of all federal taxes. By contrast, families in the bottom 40% of income earners (incomes below approximately $36,000) typically paid no federal income tax and received money back from the government. These, too, are facts. It's your Pollyanna-ish outlook that concerns me. If you would move beyond it and learn to accept that life isn't fair - I mean really accept it, not just pay lip service to it - life would become so much more enjoyable. So what if Wall Street managers get astronomical bonuses? The price they have to pay for those bonuses usually involves the sale of their souls. I'll have no part of it, and as a result, I'm one of the happiest guys I know. If it's a fight you're looking for, look elsewhere. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:18pm on 01/10/07 at 15:57:43, brewcrew wrote:
My socialism? Which socialism is that? Because I oppose a program of tax cuts that benefits the top 1%, I am socialist? Because, like Ben Bernanke at the Federal Reserve Bank, I recognize that concentration of wealth poses problems for the future of this country, you paint me red?? What a joker you are. :) Ultimate and absolute equality ? I agree - its not gonna happen. But we live in a democracy, and we can make policies that favor fairness and equality, that actually make things better. Or we can make policies that do the opposite. Sure, I could 'really accept' the idea that life is unfair, not do anything about it, and be blissful. By the same respect, maybe we should all accept the idea that life is about sickness and decline, it culminates in death, and rather than look at the problem and try to change things, we should sing 'don't worry, be happy.' No need to get worked up over new treatments for CH to improve things for everyone, lets just ride out the pain and enjoy the PF times?? I'm all for positive thinking. But not your style. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:29pm I was wondering just how long it was gonna take before you were going to look for an argument again, Flo. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:34pm You are a real piece of work, Flo. Keep fighting. And keep feeling cheated. You've only the lining of your stomach with which to pay. Shame on me for allowing myself to be engaged by you once again. My bad. I'll try harder to resist next time. And as hard as it may be to believe, I wish you pain-free days and nights ahead. Now I believe we are done. Unless you'd like the last word - by all means, be my guest. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by floridian on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:38pm on 01/10/07 at 16:29:21, JeffB wrote:
Have I stopped beating my wife? YES! I mean, NO!! I mean ... - people that call Nancy Pelosi a crazy eyed B_tch are merely sharing their opinion, while those who talk about issues are argumentative and spoil it for every one. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Cathi04 on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:49pm Isn't it cool that we live in these her United States, where we have the freedom to differ in opinions and not be hung by our thumbs for it! HUH??????????????????? Now, gentlemen, shake hands, show respect for one another and move the hell on!! CH is enough pain for one person! Politically incorrect Cathi |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by tanner on Jan 10th, 2007, 4:54pm OK, ya ready for a shocker! Brew, Jeff, Pat, you know I love you all but I am pretty firmly with Flo on this one :o Having worked first on the CBOT and later at the Pac Coast Stock Exchange (on an arbitrage desk linked to Ivan Boesky) I have witnessed from "back in the day" what insider info can do for those that have it and to those that don't. For the last 20+ years until my back injury I worked as an Estate Manager for the Mega Rich (centimillionaires need not apply) and since Linda did the books in each case I am very aware of just how they manage to not pay their fair share of taxes if any at all! Finally, having lost my socks in investments made in Global Crossing, Enron, and MCI to mention a few I am very pissed ! Now I am poor and humble again and if I could shake these frigging HA's, I could add happy to that! Screw the almighty dollar, but it would be nice to have a future in site. ............Tim |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:02pm Any of ya want to invest in a cattle operation? I cleared 2900.00 bucks last year.That was my best year ever. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:04pm I hear ya, Tim. But hasn't this crap been going on for longer than 6 years? They way I read things, I took some comments to suggest this is something new. And I will stand by my comment (opinion, fact) that Pelosi has crazy eyes. But I do look forward to the coming months to see what this woman tries to do. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by brewcrew on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:06pm Tim - You are entitled to feel any way you want to. I choose not to feel resentment toward the rich just because I am not. Apparently some think there's a solution to it, I do not. It's been this way since our first ancestors crawled out of the ooze. Some choose to fret about it - I choose not to waste my time or energy. And some are much more tactful about expressing it than others. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:09pm on 01/10/07 at 17:02:58, vietvet2tours wrote:
LMAO! Not gonna invest in California stock(cows), I believe the taxes that are gonna be put on ranchers and producers for cow farts are going to reduce profits. I'm saving my money for Arnolds healthcare plan. I can't wait to help get illegals more healthcare. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by tanner on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:14pm on 01/10/07 at 17:02:58, vietvet2tours wrote:
Potter, you better watch out what you ask for ;) Gods country and some nice Angus sound pretty good to me :) ...............Tim ps; thanks Brew ;) |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:16pm I'll bring some A1 for ya, Potter. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Jonny on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:45pm on 01/10/07 at 16:29:21, JeffB wrote:
I once posted a political joke and Flo argued that post with actual facts......LOL ;;D I would love to be a fly on the wall in his house when he walks by a mirror.....blah, blah, blah, blah.....LMMFAO [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:48pm on 01/10/07 at 17:16:38, JeffB wrote:
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 10th, 2007, 5:54pm on 01/10/07 at 17:14:00, tanner wrote:
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:03pm on 01/10/07 at 17:54:11, vietvet2tours wrote:
Holy crap! |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Bob P on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:08pm The have nots always resent the haves. Labor always resents management. The taxed resent the taxers. Flat chesters resent busties. Everyone resents fat guys in speedos. That's the way it is! |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by chewy on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:14pm Quote:
Whats wrong with the poor critters? Was the operation a success? Quote:
HEY! Stay on topic. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:28pm on 01/10/07 at 18:08:52, Bob P wrote:
And I really, really resent those guys in the porn movi..........uhh....maybe I've said too much. What color are your cows?? |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:46pm Black cows are good cows |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by chewy on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:48pm Dead cows are good cows. Especially on my grill. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by AussieBrian on Jan 10th, 2007, 6:58pm on 01/10/07 at 18:14:21, chewy wrote:
Dunno about other countries but here in Oz speedos are called "budgie-smugglers". |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Cathi04 on Jan 10th, 2007, 7:14pm "I never saw a purple cow, I never hope to see one.... but I can tell you this right now........ I'd rather see than be one!"............ especially if it's wearing a speedo! Euuuwww!!! 8) |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by jimmers on Jan 10th, 2007, 8:16pm Around here Speedos are called "Butt Floss" ;;D And I believe that if someone is going to wear Speedos, there should be an application process! ;;D Jimmers, who no longer has to give 1/2 of his money to the Goverment. Right jonny! Seeya |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jan 10th, 2007, 11:54pm on 01/10/07 at 17:04:12, JeffB wrote:
What is going on now IS pretty new. Net job growth is at the slowest pace in at least the 25 years i have recollection of. Even during Regan, while the rich got much richer, the poor got a little richer. Under Clinton, while the rich got much richer, the tide lifted all boats. Under this administration, real earnings is about flat, net new (non-govt, non-farm) jobs is not even keeping up with the population growth. The national savings rate, which was at 0% due to rounding, has actually gone negative. In the meantime, we are borrowing 2 billion dollars per day just to operate the government. So, to answer your question, Flo: No, I don't feel cheated......but I bet my customers do!!! |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by peacestock on Jan 11th, 2007, 12:37am Banana Hammock. |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by georgej on Jan 11th, 2007, 1:32am No, I don't feel cheated, but I'll bet the stockholders in a large U.S. based home-improvement company do. After their lackluster CEO recently "resigned" by popular demand, (he's "pursuing other interests" now) the board of directors authorized a settlement for him that totaled 210 million dollars. That's seven times what's paid for all incentive programs annually, company-wide. Pretty good payout for being a screwup. Next time they might consider standing on the sidewalk, spitting in any direction, and making whoever it lands on the CEO at a flat $200 K a year. It would be cheaper in the long run no matter how useless the spittee might be. Better yet, use a chimpanzee, and feed him bananas. Preferably anyone who doesn't think uselessly occupying a chair entitles him to live like a pasha. I don't think questioning this sort of nest-feathering is socialist--if it is, then crank up the "Internationale", baby. If I were a stockholder in this company (but they are plague dogs as far as I'm concerned until they fire their present board) I'd have some hard questions for the board of directors. Entirely too much of this stuff goes on now. It's bad for the companies involved, it's bad for stockholders, and it's bad for the average people who work for those companies. Until investors demand regulatory changes that will put more power into the hands of stockholders, it will continue. Perhaps those changes would encourage more employees to vest in the company as well--after all, would you be encouraged to buy stock in your company if you saw these shenanigans going on in the boardroom? Best, George |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Charlie on Jan 11th, 2007, 3:12am Actually, there is nothing wrong with socialism when it works. It doesn't. We are told that we live in a capitalist society but our modern version has a feudal quality not seen in about 120 years. I have no problem with people raking in tons-o-cash so long as somewhere along the way just a tiny bit of social conscience is displayed. It's hard to spot today. Even guys like Nixon knew enough to toss a bone now and then to keep us quiet.... Bush just doesn't like us. You gotta give him and his pals credit though they know how to get people vote against their own self-interest. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by artonio7 on Jan 11th, 2007, 5:59pm I couldn't resist: Katie Blows Thousands To Get All The Right Shoes (http://entertainment1.sympatico.msn.ca/Katie+Blows+Thousands+To+Get+All+The+Right+Shoes/Celebs/Dramarama/ContentPosting_Dramarama.aspx?isfa=1&newsitemid=c8e0b755-2ea0-4d47-86c9-656fb08374a0&feedname=RYAN_PORTER_GOSSIP&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc) Tony |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:21pm Ditto to what George said. I cannot believe all the peeps that think it's o.k. that these guys rake in Millions annually and everyone else gets peanuts. They last 2 or 3 years then walk away with annual retirements equalling more than most of us will ever dream of making in a lifetime. I'm getting hungry now. Gonna go eat my peanut butter and jelly sandwhich. >:( |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by artonio7 on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:44pm on 01/11/07 at 18:21:35, BlueMeanie wrote:
MMMMMMMMMMM! You have peanut butter??? |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 11th, 2007, 6:51pm Meanwhile, there is some damn wall street guy feeding his cat fresh lobster right now. Do you have nuts in your peanut butter? |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:02pm LOL... no nuts, just the smoooooth kind. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Jonny on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:05pm Ahhhhh, smooth nuts.....thats how my girl likes'em Just becareful with the razor.....LOL ;;D |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by JeffB on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:15pm Chicken skin, Jonny, chicken skin. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Jonny on Jan 11th, 2007, 7:41pm on 01/11/07 at 19:15:04, JeffB wrote:
LMMFAO!!!!!....Yeah!, but smooth.....LOL ;;D |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jan 11th, 2007, 9:12pm on 01/11/07 at 19:05:01, Jonny wrote:
Mach III baby!!! |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by georgej on Jan 11th, 2007, 11:52pm on 01/11/07 at 17:59:30, artonio7 wrote:
When I saw the title of this link I thought it was going to be..... Oh, nevermind. Best, George |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Painman on Jan 12th, 2007, 1:16am Look at our Canadian Government voting themselves a 24% pay raise for x-mas????? Has anyone else out there received a raise like that lately (IF EVER?) |
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Title: Re: Feel Cheated?? Post by Painman on Jan 12th, 2007, 1:20am on 01/12/07 at 01:16:15, Painman wrote:
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