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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
        
(Message started by: Jonny on Dec 12^th, 2006, 7:32pm)

Title: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Dec 12^th, 2006, 7:32pm

It seems that its getting so PC that some dont want to honor our best and brightest.....just like some schools dont keep score of sports games because they dont want to make the losers of the game ....well, feel like losers.

" Needham High Principal Paul Richards said the idea of keeping the honor roll private was pitched by a concerned parent and spread quickly in a school community already looking to ease tension around the town."

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=171617

I didnt want to post this in Ree or Helens threads, so here it is.

I think even, Flo...would say this is going too far with the PC crap!

What say you on this?

Title: Re: Honor role?.....Hmmmm
Post by Maffumatt on Dec 12^th, 2006, 7:42pm

If kids cant learn about disappointment, boy are they in for a big one later in life.

Title: Re: Honor role?.....Hmmmm
Post by BarbaraD on Dec 12^th, 2006, 7:45pm

They've definitely gone too far..... Kids that work hard enough to get on the honor roll SHOULD get the recognition they deserve. My kid was an AVERAGE student (never came close to the honor roll) but I was very proud of the ones who did and it didn't upset him that he didn't.

What next -- quit having football banquets - after all the school nerds might get upset - or the "A" students (not many football players on that one) because the athletic kids get "recognition". Might cause some serious handicaps for those who aren't in the "in" crowd.

And for heaven's sake - we MUST cut out proms. Think of all the kids who don't have the money to buy an expensive dress (or tux) to wear for a couple of hours.

Ok, so I'm being a little bit fecious, but it's not uncomprehendable.

Title: Re: Honor role?.....Hmmmm
Post by LeLimey on Dec 12^th, 2006, 7:49pm

I think its brilliant, they're not naming those who didn't do well, only recognising those who did. I can see the point that kids get too caught up in it but thats where our job as parents comes in and makes them realise that having fun can be a learning experience too.
It's all about balance. You have to work then you can have fun and your whole life is going to be like that.
Personally, I don't care whether my kids end up as top of the class or bottom as long as they have done their very best. I'll be proud of them for just that. More inportantly THEY know that. If you make sure your kids are proud of their effort more than their grade then you can't go far wrong in my opinion

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Dec 12^th, 2006, 7:57pm

Its not the kids....its the parents on this one!!

" the idea of keeping the honor roll private was pitched by a concerned parent and spread quickly"

Its like they are saying "I let my kid play video games instead of doing homework" and I dont want anyone to know!

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by LeLimey on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:01pm

Well thats not what parenting means to me :-/
Whatever happend to giving your kids goals to aim for??

Title: Re: Honor role?.....Hmmmm
Post by georgej on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:04pm

Impractical too-- the list would actually be private for about one day. Within 24 hours, everyone would know who was on it. It would be on half a dozen websites on MySpace within 36 hours.

There's always going to be some parent with a wild hair. Part of being an effective administrator is knowing what concerns to listen to, and what silliness is better blown off. I would have thought Principal Richards might have more important things to worry about.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Redd715 on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:13pm

Being a mother of 2, one who's been high honor roll for 4 years, and one who was just barely passing untill this year, I want them both to see who is on honor roll.

Honor roll itself, is but one way kids can excell and reach for a goal. For some, it helps them strive to excell in other areas. Everyone has a nitch, and recognising excellence in all of them, should maybe be the goal.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Maffumatt on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:16pm

Its a goal for kids to shoot for and be recognized for their hard work and perseverance, nice of them take that away.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:26pm

on 12/12/06 at 20:13:33, Redd715 wrote:

Honor roll itself, is but one way kids can excell and reach for a goal. For some, it helps them strive to excell in other areas. Everyone has a nitch, and recognising excellence in all of them, should maybe be the goal.

I wanna kiss you :-*.....;;D

Having never made the honor roll I knew by high school that I would be much better off entering a trade school. I did four years there and made my Mom happy that she didnt raise a loser.....LOL ;;D

Now I do about a million dollars a year worth of biz and only three people work with me.

Im far from rich, but I never worked a day Mickey D's......LMAO ;)

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Redd715 on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:33pm

I think Dyl is narrowing down his skills and interests. So he's not the best student...

...but he is a gifted writer and story teller.

Meg is a brilliant student, a born leader and natrual diplomat. She wants to be a teacher...but with her natural gift of making a short story very very long and taking forever to get to a point, I think I'm going to lead her toward politics. [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Paul98 on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:43pm

WTF? What is next? Teach kids not to do well because the dumber kid might not have good self esteem because some other kid made better grades?

I guess the next step is to teach kids not to earn a good living.....might make the homeless feel inferior.

The troubling thing is the principal will keep his cushy job. He should have his ass thrown out with the trash.

Man, the school system and the friggin taxes I friggin pay for it pisses me off.............$12K a year and I don't even own a kid. The students I have tought in my lab are for the most part supposed to be the top 10% of the crowd and 80% of those 10% I would not trust to tie my shoe. The educational system in the US if fucked up. WHY?

-P.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Dec 12^th, 2006, 8:53pm

on 12/12/06 at 20:43:34, Paul98 wrote:

I guess the next step is to teach kids not to earn a good living.....might make the homeless feel inferior.

To late dude....LOL

"Representatives from the California Milk Processor Board, which was behind the ads, said complaints were from groups that are trying to ban all public scents, anti-obesity organizations, diabetes organizations and homeless advocates who argued the smell would leave them hungry and unable to purchase food.

http://www.examiner.com/a-439574~Cookie_scented_bus_stop_ads_crumble.html

WTF ever happen to ...........(You name it!)

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by chewy on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:31pm

I dont agree with it but can understand where that school is coming from. That student body has been traumatized by a number of deaths and the school had to do something and didn't what it was to do.

Bottom line though is if little Bobby commits suicide because some other kid made Honor Roll, then there are some serious home issues at little Bobby's house that are being overlooked and should have been recognized and addressed BY THE PARENTS.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Paul98 on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:33pm

on 12/12/06 at 20:53:29, Jonny wrote:

To late dude....LOL

homeless advocates who argued the smell would leave them hungry and unable to purchase food.

WTF ever happen to ...........(You name it!)

Priceless! Watch out Micky D's and BK. I'll bet the bum's really have their mouth watering when they pass a packy store.

-P.
;;D

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:38pm

Its called stealing achviment from the achivers......Nuff said!!

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by UN solved on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:46pm

George Carlin said it best

It's the 'pussification of America' .... and we're seeing it happen right before our eyes

UNsolved

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:47pm

Heres a thought as I go to bed.

Lets stop all these award shows, why suck ass on these freaks that do nothing and get paid $20 million a picture?

$20 mil for a film but a kids homerun dont count?......WTF?

Good night....PF to you!

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Kevin_M on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:52pm

Sometimes just doing good is reward itself, but other times a little recognition is helpful too. If no one cares that you are doing good, and some parents may not be noticing enough or even commend with a pat on the back, it's nice to know you did it yourself, got your name in the paper.
Those that didn't get their name in the paper, well, they know what they have to do if they want it there, a study group can be great. Peer and parental pressure for not making it can get beyond bothersome for a few it seems, but nobody ever bothered me in the library.

The paper will need to fill that empty space with something and have to look for someone to commend who did something outside their community or maybe less inspiring stories. We get enough bad news here.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Ree on Dec 12^th, 2006, 10:34pm

My daughter better get her name in the paper.... some kids have the honor roll come easily... this wasnt it was a struggle and something she is quite proud of... so I will take out an AD if they don't do it in my town we are right next door to Needham...... ree

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Charlie on Dec 13^th, 2006, 1:35am

Jay Leno brought up this thing.

He said that in this case, maybe they shouldn't post football scores for the Oakland Raiders.

Charlie

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by floridian on Dec 13^th, 2006, 2:47am

Jonny,

Glad you came around to Hillary's POV - it takes a village to raise a child! It isn't enough that the student and his family have satisfaction from the accomplishment of excellent grades (though that is good). It isn't enough that the school gives them an honor certificate to say they done good (in case they didn't figure that out when they saw the grade report). Those that did best must have their name broadcast, so that friends, friends of parents, and little old church-ladies can congratulate them and reinforce good behavior.

The attempt to minimize the recognition is a misguided attempt to deal with a real problem. When it comes to eating, we have an epidemic of childhood obesity, and a smaller, but deadly serious epidemic of anorexia. The same when it comes to studying. Everyone talks about the underachievers, and that is real and visible. But there is a 'Japanification' of academic culture that is messing some kids up.

The secret honor roll strategy won't stop the problem any more than protesting Barbi dolls will end anorexia. Yes, some girls have an unrealistic body image, and that is reinforced everywhere - TV, magazines, gymnastics coaches, the list could go on for pages. Barbi's a bimbo, but force-feeding her before she gets to the big-box retailers won't fix things.

When I was in high school, we did a mock resume in sophmore year (nobody took it too serious) and a real one junior year to prepare for college admissions. A decade later, my brother was doing a real resume in English class his freshman year. Today, kids are doing it in junior high and even grade school. They are being told (and believe) that if they aren't #1 in all they do as a 12 year old, they are screwing themselves for life. Pressure to get in a good school is also high - ever see some of the college application videos or DVDs that kids feel they need? Over the top IMO, but if spending a thousand bucks on a video will help you get into a good school (or a good state school, which is tough in Florida), or get a scholarship worth maybe 30 grand, then people will do it. Spending a grand doesn't guarantee results (some assdorks still get spotted), but it does raise the bar for everyone else. Another related problem: steroids in high school sports.

One one level, its a question of balance, and parents do have a major role to play. But I don't think parents are entirely to blame for anorexia, rampant steroid use, or for wanting to stop what they see as an out of control culture of premature over-achievement. Not that one little thing like a secret honor roll will solve the problem, and not cause other problems.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by LeLimey on Dec 13^th, 2006, 3:32am

Flo as parents our first job - MY first job is o teach my kids self respect 'cos if they don't like themselves there isn't any point in going any further.

I praise their accomplishments but I don't hold back on telling them off either. Brid, my daughter works really hard, she struggles for every good mark she gets whereas Barney will get top marks in everything for no bloody effort at all. It drives me nuts as he has a lot of ability but he is wasting it through laziness. It would be very easy to focus on that and just go on about it but it wouldn't make him work. I set him little targets and bribes. I meet him halfway. I've told him for every subject he gets a better than last years report in I'll give him 5 pounds (cash) I've told Brid the same but to be fair I've let her equal her grades as she couldn't really better them. When he makes the weekly honour roll or she does I cook a special dinner, we'll go to the cinema or somewhere special to them like Sherwood. We do this to celebrate Jasper's achievements too

I do my best to focus on good behaviour (I'm not perfect and I do snipe sometimes!) and reward it and try and encourage him to do better than last time.

Both my older kids are very different and need different strategies and as a parent it's my job to recognise that and learn how to work with it. I do belief education starts in the home. I do believe that whilst peer pressure will always exist we as parents should help our kids overcome that and be more balanced.

Too many people pass the buck onto the education system, it wasn't set up for substitute parenting and whilst there is a need for some kids to larn things from school that they should learn at home but don't for one reason or another that shouldn't be true for the majority.

Teachubg has gone from educating kids to making a teacher be a psychologist, a one man swat team, a parent, a politician.. its ridiculous and it's no wonder people leave the profession in droves.

Sorry for ranting!
Helen

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by BarbaraD on Dec 13^th, 2006, 6:41am

Good rant Helen.

The one thing we had when we were kids was RESPECT for GROWN-UPS (we didn't have to like them, but we respected them - we said yes mam and no mam (or sir), we didn't call them by their first names (this would get you a good butt busting) and we "sat" in class and BEHAVED or our parents were at the school to find out why. We didn't have all the teachers "aides" trying to control us. One classroom - one Teacher!

We usually did homework while mom was cooking dinner (usually did it in the kitchen where we could ask questions and get some help from mom). We ate dinner as a "family" and went to bed at a decent hour.

During dinner we discussed "current events" and politicks and us kids were "encouraged" to have opinions (which I always did - mostly the opposite of what dad thought).

The point being -- both my parents worked, but they still took the time to be parents. I'm not sure when all that changed, but parents should go back and study the child raising from that era. Most of us turned out ok.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by jimmers on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:05am

Barb,

That is one of the best post I have ever read!

Nice job!

Jimmers

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 13^th, 2006, 7:48pm

on 12/13/06 at 06:41:18, BarbaraD wrote:

I'm not sure when all that changed, but parents should go back and study the child raising from that era. Most of us turned out ok.

They don't need to study it...they were there, as kids.

And it seems that many of them turned out to be................. shitty parents.

I say list the ones that flunk!
The snobs will know who to keep their kids away from, and my grandkids will know who to call when there's nothing to do and they want to have some fun.

Bobw
Personally, I wish they'd ban the "my kid is on the honor role" bumper stickers.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Charlie on Dec 13^th, 2006, 8:34pm

Self respect was a long time coming for me but I did well in school even without the kind of feedback we try to give to kids today. Mostly, I got it from teachers and a few other adults.....I hung around with more adults than most kids, and as I think about it; I missed out on a lot of kid stuff. Dad took me all over and he had some very interesting friends.

Somehow, most kids in my generation knew better than to over test mom and dad. Heavy booms could be lowered then....not just physical either. I blame a lot of television comedies. One of my biggest gripes is that TV comedies have too many children smarter and better adjusted than the parents. They always write in the goofball dad that has to learn to do everything the hard way. Some of the worst are Ally MacBeal and Six Feet Under. The kids in those shows wouldn't last a week with me. I'd have a hard time not killing them.

Kids see themselves on tv doing better than the old man and they mistakenly think that that's the way way the world works. It doesn't and when they discover that life isn't a sitcom, they can be so taken aback that they may make some awful if not dangerous decisions. They think mistakes can be always recitified. It ain't so.

We need a few Ward Cleavers.

Charlie

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Kevin_M on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:20pm

Original thinkers can often go with a slower maturation with perhaps not as good grades, the seers and rebels with intellectual independence are a necessary balance and not to be denied a place in the world either for their great and commending contributions we've learned from in our lives.

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:45pm

on 12/13/06 at 19:48:18, Pinkfloyd wrote:

Personally, I wish they'd ban the "my kid is on the honor role" bumper stickers.

Could that be because of the "My kid kicked the fuck out of your honor role kid".....sticker?

Title: Re: Honor roll?.....Hmmmm
Post by AussieBrian on Dec 13^th, 2006, 9:51pm

on 12/13/06 at 21:20:49, Kevin_M wrote:

Original thinkers can often go with a slower maturation with perhaps not as good grades...

From an article in yesterday's The Australian by Emma Tom -

Herr Brainy himself, Albert Einstein, was regarded as retarded as a child. Teachers said he would never amount to much and advised him to drop out of high school. (Fortunately, failing French and receiving crappy grades in geography and drawing didn't hinder this underachiever's later dabblings in relativistic cosmology, critical opalescence and atomic transition probabilities.)

Actor Cary Grant and crooner Frank Sinatra were both expelled from schools (the former for loitering around the girls' dunnies and the latter for rowdy behaviour), while writer Edgar Allan Poe was chucked out of the University of West Virginia and West Point military academy for gambling debts and academic violations.

Other acclaimed educational also-rans include novelist Leo Tolstoy (flunked uni), stateschap Winston Churchill (failed sixth grade), lightbulber Thomas Edison (regarded as too addled and stupid to learn) and gyrator Elvis Presley (received a C in music after being told he couldn't sing).

Literary losers include Gertrude Stein, who submitted poems for more than 20 years before one was accepted; Harold Pinter, whose early work was written off as gibberish lunacy; English writer John Creasey, who received 753 rejection slips before going on to publish 564 books; and Australian author Matthew Reilly, once rejected by every significant publishing house in Sydney, now amillionaire.

Acting newcomer Marilyn Monroe was dropped by a film company for not being attractive enough. Charles Darwin's dad once accused him of being an idiot and of caring for nothing except shooting, dogs and rat catching. The impressionist painters had to organise their own exhibitions because their work was written off as crude and reeking of revolutionary sex and violence (these are Monet's water lilies we're talking about).

And the list goes on.

Oscar winner Michael Caine was once told by a headmaster that he would spend his life as a labourer. The Beatles were turned down by two record companies who thought guitar bands were over. Jerry Seinfeld was booed off stage during his first appearance as a professional comic. Michael Jordan was once cut from his high school basketball team.