|
||||
|
Title: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Donna_D. on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:29am This is happening very near where I live. http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/13/defending.the.classroom.ap/index.html I am interested to hear your thoughts on the matter. I shall reserve mine for later... :) [smiley=cowboy.gif] DD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by unsolved1 on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:30am I have some mixed feelings about it. First of all, it would be great to see students/teachers take out an attacker before anyone got hurt. But how realistic is that? I don't think I want my 13 yo, unarmed son taking on a man with a gun. I'd rather see him run his ass off if he could. It may sound a little cowardly, but he's just a kid with no weapons or special training. Throwing a book at a crazed gunman sounds like a bad idea to me. Instead of putting the kids on the front lines, why doesn't the schools hire a couple of SWAT members to patrol the schools instead ? Woudn't the cost be worth it, if the situation arose ? Maybe even have a couple of trained dogs in the schools everyday. ?? Would you want your young children fighting unarmed against a crazed gunman unless it was absolutley neccessary? I would want that to be the very last resort! My .02 worth PEACE UNsolved |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:31am I believe it depends on the age of the children. Less than 10 years old should be taught to run away if possible, 10 and above could be taught to fight back. They need to be trained properly though. I have 2 boys, aged 7 and 10 and both are training in various martial arts. They started with Tae Kwon Do and now has moved to Combat Training with weapons. They are both very gentle in nature but they are not afraid to fight back. They have been trained never to start a fight but will not hesitate to defend themselves and their loved ones. I have trained in Karate myself so I guess my view is quite biased. As a mother, I pray to God that my children will never have to face such an attacker, but if they ever were, I would prefer to see them fighting back with all they have got rather than just sitting there helplessly and be taken down. This is my very personal view and I can understand the arguement for both sides. Annette |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:09pm I think it is a good idea to 'mob' a threat. If one kid tries to attack a gunman, they would have less than a 50% of success. If an entire class rushed and tackled a gunman, some kids might be shot, but the gunman would be taken down in seconds. I dont like the idea of SWAT or police patroling schools, mainly because it is damn near impossible to be in the right place at the right time. I also dont like the idea of a shootout at a school. I think the first step is to have controlled access to schools. If we can keep guns out of schools in the first place, that is half the battle. This is a tough situation, who the hell knows the right answer that will protect our kids? B$ |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:34pm Simple question. Would you want your kid to be at the front of the pack? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by LeLimey on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:38pm on 10/14/06 at 12:34:48, chewy wrote:
No I wouldn't. I don't know what to make of this at all but making commando's of children.. where did we learn this? Iraq? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Racer1_NC on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:43pm on 10/14/06 at 12:09:14, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
I'd rather have that than a crazed gunman shooting up the place with no one there to take him out. on 10/14/06 at 12:34:48, chewy wrote:
Rather than cowering in a corner somewhere waiting to be shot? Yes. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:44pm Quote:
First person to instruct my kid to do that is looking at a law suit. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by ClusterChuck on Oct 14th, 2006, 1:27pm on 10/14/06 at 12:34:48, chewy wrote:
HELL NO! I'm with Don on this one (I can't believe I am saying that!) Chuck |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 1:42pm If I am amongst friends and family and a gunman turns up threatening to take us all down and we have nowhere to run, I will be at the front of the pack in a flash, without hesitation ! Not because I am suicidal or trying to be a hero, to me its the right thing to do. I would not blame my sons if they decide to run in a similar situation but I would be damn proud of them if they decide to step up to the front also. Annette |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 14th, 2006, 1:45pm Quote:
Yup. Thats what we need. 12 year old dead heros with proud parents at the funerals. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Racer1_NC on Oct 14th, 2006, 1:52pm on 10/14/06 at 13:45:26, chewy wrote:
As opposed to dead 12 year olds that waited patiently until the shooter got around killing them? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 14th, 2006, 1:57pm No. As opposed to a well thought out preventive security and lock down polcy insituted by trained ADULTS with in the school system that we pay to educate and PROTECT our children. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 2:05pm on 10/14/06 at 13:45:26, chewy wrote:
What have we got now? Dead children with parents falling apart at funerals. Its already happening, sadly enough! The current practice of telling children to get to the floor and to comply with whatever the attacker asks is not working. Thats why the authority needs to look at alternative and hopefully better approach. Maybe we should ban all firearms, no personal license allowed? Metal detectors at the school gates? Security guard to patrol the school ground? Panic button and alarm in each classroom? A backdoor in every classroom so that the children can run out fast without having to get past the attacker? Teachers to be taught and armed with sprays ? Its a very complicated matter and there is no quick/perfect solution. Annette |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by LeLimey on Oct 14th, 2006, 2:10pm Okay this is a question not an accusation or whatever. After we had a school massacre here in Dunblane all schools throughout the British Isles are now locked and have entryphones. You cannot get in during school hours without an appointment or being known to the staff but you still have to go in via the entryphone. At the schools my kids are at you then go into a secure area and have to be buzzed through to further area's as well but I wouldn't say that was the case for all schools. I'm not saying thats foolproof as nothing ever is but could you not just have something similar and if not why wouldn't it work? This is a straightforward "I don't know" question not a trick one! |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Melissa on Oct 14th, 2006, 2:10pm How about funding mandatory parental education to recognize the warning signs & prevent children intending to massacre? my [smiley=twocents.gif] (just cause I had to say something...) as for the adults that kill, well, that's a different question that I don't have the answer to at the moment. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Racer1_NC on Oct 14th, 2006, 2:10pm on 10/14/06 at 13:57:39, chewy wrote:
And when that fails (as most systems do), THEN they wait paiently? I agree, security and I might add armed protection should be the first line of defense. BUT teaching kids to defend themselves in various situations is NOT a bad idea. No one in the country is better protected than a sitting President and that system fails on occasion. Think local school systems can do a better job than the Secret Service? You have more faith than I. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by LeLimey on Oct 14th, 2006, 2:11pm In answer to my own question.. I hadn't considered Mels point that sometimes its kids doing the shooting.. I was thinking only of an adult gaining entry. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 14th, 2006, 2:21pm I read this story first over at a fellow medical blogger's website. Here were some of the comments from over there: Quote:
I dont' quite know what to make of this just yet. However, I like the last comment where they talk about having a button that teachers could push. We also had this at the crisis hotline where I worked because we could also take walk-ins. It was a blue button that went directly to the cops. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by deltadarlin on Oct 14th, 2006, 4:07pm If you're gonna go something like this, why not teach the teachers/kids hostage negotiating skill? Would that not serve them better? This is all well and good in a *teaching* setting, but there is no guarantee that the kids would act as a team if the situation actually occured. You could very well be looking at a situation where one kid responds and the other kids don't, then what do you have? One dead kid very possibly. I think there may be some merit in teaching kids how to react to a situation like this, but there has to be a better way. Looking at the latest shooting in Colorado, it could have been prevented. Numerous students saw the man in the parking lot and saw him drinking (noone reported it) and then the man walked the halls asking about various students (noone reported it). Teach your kids to be hyperaware of their surroundings. Make them realize that *strange* may very well mean unsafe and needs to be reported immediately. If this man had tried to get into the school where Helen's kids are, it wouldn't have happened. Of course, the problem there occurs is that there are some extremely large schools here that are sprawled out over rather large campuses. 'darlin |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Jonny on Oct 14th, 2006, 7:27pm on 10/14/06 at 16:07:51, deltadarlin wrote:
Well said!!!!! |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Gator on Oct 14th, 2006, 9:17pm The problem with the idea is that people do in a stressful situation what they have practiced. When I first went through the law enforcement academy, when we went to the firing range, we had to pick up our brass after each firing position. We would pick up brass several times during the course of a training session. It got to be such an automatic response, that some police officers who were killed in armed confrontations were found with spent brass in their hands/pockets. In the heat of a gun battle, they died doing what they had practiced. Fortunately, they changed the curriculum and officers lives were saved. These were adults, trained to handle themselves under fire. How much better will a child fare? Unless there are frequent "Scumbag Drills" in the classroom, kids are going to do what they are taught by their parents, teachers and society in general and what they practice daily - be non-confrontational. If a gunman enters and fires a shot, one or two kids (maybe three or four) might remember s/he is supposed to throw his books and stuff at the gunman, but most kids will sit there in fear trying not to draw attention to themselves. Personally, I don't want my grandkids leading an empty charge at a homicidal maniac. Bravely dead is still dead. Not what I want for my grand children. How many people here have ever been shot at? It's a frightening experience that paralyzes some of the bravest adults in fear. Even some law enforcement people, after all the training and practice, freeze when they or their partner can least them afford to. I just don't think it's a good idea. I'd rather see closed school campasses, school uniforms (harder to pick out a specific target and would solve some other problems that exist in the schools these days), training for teachers and administrators, and more and better security. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Kevin_M on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:11pm Leading a charge against all odds. We've maybe read about the successes in history trying to prevent a massacre situation, done under orders or by leadership. Brave. Heroes. Many times the results are only slightly less tragic when even successful but the desparate persons are also armed, and many haven't succeeded. But Unarmed? This school situations are the unarmed leading a charge against the fully prepared, of which there may be more than one. Mike makes some good points. Going at a person who has an automatic or semi-automatic weapon who wants to kill people is offering a lot of opportunity to a lunatic who would be probably standing back a distance from people at first appearance. And each situation can be different for a single plan toward all. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:20pm I think this quote from the article is important: Quote:
OK so that is a good way to ensure they won't just crouch under their desks and wait to be shot. Or line up against the blackboard without saying one word in dissent like the Amish schoolgirls. Keeping moving or trying to run out of the room is important - especially if there's only one gunman and he or she has moved away from the door. Unfortunately, many will block access to the door, and if there's a second gunman, they may block the door while the other walks around the classroom. The scenarios are endless. I do think it's important to note that it is much harder to hit a moving target. However, I still don't like the idea of children storming the attacker. I cannot get the image out of my head of a bunch of little 5 year olds running at the gunman with their blunt tipped, plastic scissors... Furthermore, I think that if the drills are practiced as much as they would need to be in order to instill confidence and repetition in the kids (especially in smaller children), then some kids are going to be really traumatized - even by the worry that they may need to use these skills. Children have very vivid imaginations. When I was young, I remember being freaked out by the stories that students would pass around about someone murdering girls with long blonde hair and blue eyes. It was all myth. If they're going to do this, especially with the little ones, they had better have counselors available to make sure the kids are coping with this whole thing okay. And not just counselors to wait for the kids to come to them after nights of bad dreams and decreased performance in school. They'd need counselors to be proactive and hold small-group sessions or talk to children one on one to ensure that they were okay... My mom is an elementary school secretary, and she tells me stories all the time... I've heard such a wide variety of things - from the funny, to the neat, to the sad, etc. I can't imagine instructing the kids of her stories to do this sort of thing. Can you all think of a child you know and imagine what the reaction of that child when you go to teach them how to ambush a guy with a gun? Also, what if this makes the gunman really mad - and even more determined to kill and he just starts popping off people left and right even more than he might have otherwise? Some people bring the gun in simply to create a hostage situation until they get what they want and not with the intent of killing anyone. But how do you differentiate? These kids ambush a gunman like that, and people might die who wouldn't necessarily have been killed... I just don't know about this.... I suppose Texas is the one place where this could be trialed for the first time. If they tried to do this around where I live, it would never fly - at least not right now! |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Charlie on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:36pm I'm with Mike: I can see something like this being turned on its head. Mis-identification, resulting in taking out a visiting substitute teacher, for example. Some schools are already full of nervous people. It would likely make things worse that way. Reactions of most adults in these situations are unpredictable, with children, certainly so. I like the idea of something being done but looks like it's one more thing police would have to deal with. Things are bad enough in those situations. Still, just these discussions will likely have a little effect and perhaps just the right amount. Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BlueMeanie on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:51pm Schools need to look at preventive security measures such as teaching schoolkids to be vigilant in reporting suspicious behavior. Have security doors (most schools around here already have them). Have security guards roaming the halls. (Not 80 year old retirees either). Have distress buttons in all classrooms that report directly to the police. Have cameras in all classrooms. Send flyers to parents to discuss what to do in the event of a hostage crises. Let the parents discuss what they think is the best way to approach the situation with their children. To teach children to attack someone with a gun is way out there. Not all poeple with a gun is willing to shoot. Most cases can be negotiated. Pencils and erasers are not going to stop someone with an automatic gun. The first girl that throws an eraser at the gunman will have a bullet in her head sorry to say. I cannot believe that there are no parents in that school district fighting this. I hope the school district has about $40 million to pay out in lawsuits if thier plan was ever actually used and children died. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by unsolved1 on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:53pm If the schools expect my son to attack an armed person...I'll make sure my son is armed !! UNsolved |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:56pm I can't believe it was even suggested, or is even being taught. Its a waste of tax payers money. Mortal combat training will never successfully be taught in a school classroom full of innocent children. Thier instincts to engage will never be optimized, therefore children will ultimately die in a crisis situation. I'd rather see us pay the teachers during summer break to take a firearms course and carry weapons themselves in the event a crisis took place. To put children on the front line is absurd. >:( Sean................................... edit to add: Donna can you pm me the names of the politicians who agreed to this crap? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:59pm Shortly after the Amish school shootings, my mom told me that the local NBC news station sent someone around to various schools to try to get in to prove how easy it was. He was stopped when he tried to enter the school from the upper door... (The school is on a hill and has entries on both floor 1 and 2.) However, apparently he was standing in the lobby for quite some time before anyone noticed. He didn't get farther than that, but still... I felt really badly for my mom because she was the only secretary in the office that day - the other secretary was out of work. I've been there many times - my mom's desk is next to a window where she could see anyone that comes in 1 of 3 doorways, but the lobby bends around slightly so that someone could potentially sneak in during busy times and hide out of site. As Helen mentioned, I do think that having the doors locked from the outside would be a good first step. Even a very large school could do this. If someone wanted to get back in, they would have to be let in by security or the office. This would at least prevent outside intruders from entering. Sure, it would be a hassle for those parents coming to the school or people coming during various times, but that doesn't matter. It's about safety, and they're expected to sign in at the office anyway, so what's the big deal in needing to be buzzed in? I know this would not address students themselves doing the attacking - such as the incident in Columbine and other times when students were the ones with the guns, shooting teachers and other students, but it would at least keep out the outside intruders.... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:03pm Wonder if the teachers are at least allowed to have pepper spray or anything like that? I know it's not the same as having a weapon, but any thing they could have (even a tazer!) that could serve as some sort of deterrant would be helpful.... When I was an extern working in maternity, we had the father of one of our babies coming up and abusing the mother of the baby in the mother's hospital room, even while she was holding the baby! It was a sticky situation because the mother had to be the one calling the cops in order for the cops to actually do anything. Our many calls didn't matter. Security would come up, but really nothing much could be done until the mom finally did decide to call - but this was a day or two into this situation. The father would walk by the nurse's station with this smug look on his face as if HE was in control. In all honesty, I had pepper spray in my backpack, and I put it in my pocket while this idiot was allowed to come up to the unit. It wouldn't have done a thing if he had brought a gun and pointed it at me or any of the nurses or other staff, but if he had tried to come after us or threatened us without a gun out, at the very least I could have sprayed that to try to slow him down... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Mrs Deej on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:13pm We kinda had a "situation" here in Wichita on Thursday and Friday!!! Thursday: We had a high school here in Wichita that had a threat earlier in the week by a student...he was arrested. HOWEVER, a student started a mass text message spam to students telling them there was something that was going to happen and literally HALF the student body didn't show up for school because they "feared for their lives". The messed up part (in my opinion) was that they arrested the students that started the mass text because the authorities felt they were trying to "start something"!!! My question to y'all: Do you think the students arrested for the spam should have been arrested, or do you think they were truely looking out for their fellow student body? Friday: The student body of Valley Center High School (suburb) were locked down because there was a "suspsicious" package on the steps of the stairs. When I was in school we would have walked right up to it and looked inside or just thrown it away. It makes me very weary to know that this shit is going on in this world, and that my son is now in school. What's gonna happen to his school when he gets to high school?! :-/ Frustrated, scared and concerned mother, Steph |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Kevin_M on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:19pm I just want to add, going at a gunman enmasse may get more people killed than the gunman had originally planned to shoot, also. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:22pm Steph - I think the person who initiated the text message should be arrested if that person did it just to scare people. However, if someone told him that something was going down and he then texted people out of concern for their safety, then no, I don't think he should be arrested. The proper method, instead of texting all the students, would have been to take this info directly to the authorities however! We recently had an incident in nearby Radnor, Pennsylvania. This is very close to me. A student had written something in pencil on the wall in the men's room that said something along the lines of, "It's people like you that make people like me bring weapons to school." or something like that. So they did cancel classes for a day while they investigated. I was a senior in high school when Columbine happened. In December of that school year ('98-'99), I distinctly remember bomb threats happening every day for a week. It was awful and very nerve wracking. Some days we'd have to stand outside the school for quite a long time, in the cold, with our bags still in the school depending on what we were doing at the time of the announcement. Once, we were all herded into the nearby junior high and then the junior high received a bomb threat itself, so we ended up back outside. They did end up arresting somebody finally.... However, after Columbine, somebody actually left a threatening message that a Columbine-type incident was going to happen in our school on a specific date in May of that year. Half the school did not show up, including my brother. I still went to school because I wasn't going to let people playing pranks terrorize me out of finishing my education, but had there been any question in my mind about it or if I'd had a bad feeling, I wouldn't have gone. This was back in 1998 and 1999 - we even had a bomb sniffing dog going around the school quite frequently. But it seems as though these school shootings and violence have gotten much worse, and I did read an article that said 2006 has been the worst year thus far in terms of school shootings/violence. It's awful.... I don't know what the world is going to be like by the time I have children.... :( |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by MJ on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:24pm on 10/14/06 at 21:17:36, Gator wrote:
I have been shot at and have shot back. Gators excactly right in the fact you never know how one or groups of ones may react in these situations. No matter how a child is raised we know even less about how they would respond under these type of situations. I have 2 kids in middle school yet and they have regular drills for these types of situations where they learn how best to avoid being shot and to stay out of harms way if possible, avoiding line of site, doors, etc.. Each classroom has a panic button that any student or teacher can activate, each has a camera and open communication system, and most classrooms have an alternate method of escape in the event of fire or worse to the outside. Where its only a window the kids are instructed on the proper methods and when to break the glass. I think the majority of schools, at least in my area, have at the least a lightly trained response team anymore consisting of teachers and aministrators. The students are also given seminars on recognizing conflict and what to do in the event that another student carries, threatens or suggests he/she is carrying a weapon and who to contact while remaining anonymous if they wish. It is the right of every parent to feel that a campus is somewhat secure and even more the right of every student and teacher to feel that way. While a school is teaching our students basic logic and learning tools I feel they should also teach them basic defense tools and the use of forcefull response when needed. The power of many under the leadership of a few qualified ones. One more tool to have. If my son were to be shot first I would be deeply saddened but proud in knowing that he went down with a fight if that was what the situation demanded rather than cowering in the corners hoping another insane person would suddenly become sane. If just one more childs life could be lived I might find comfort. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by unsolved1 on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:35pm I would never think my son was 'cowering' no matter what if he was in a situation like that. Staying alive means more than anything else! Surviving it would be all I would want for him. Screw what anyone else thinks. I'd rather my son be alive than be a dead 'hero'. Kevin_M said: (and I agree with this possibility) Quote:
UNsolved |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by MJ on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:58pm on 10/14/06 at 23:35:40, unsolved1 wrote:
I would hope this for your son and mine as well Unsolved. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 15th, 2006, 3:33am This is such a tough situation, and there doesn't seem to be any viable solutions. Kids sitting patiently and waiting to be killed is not good. Attacking the attacker could potentially lead to more harm than was planned....but we would never know. I personally think teachers with guns is not a great idea due to the potential of a kid stealing it or using it. Secured buildings with restricted access would only work if you set up an infrastructure like an airport....also not very feasible. Who the hell knows what the answer is? Its such a shame. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Jonny on Oct 15th, 2006, 4:34am Com'on!......20 of these little bastards could take down one guy and stomp him.......lets use what we have that will not cost the taxpayer ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by LeLimey on Oct 15th, 2006, 5:59am on 10/15/06 at 03:33:19, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Oh yeah? You try getting behind the scenes in a bank! If its good enough for bloody money then its good enough for my kids! The company I work for has security I say hello to every day. I've baked cakes for them when it was their birthdays.. yet the one day I forgot my ID I wasn't allowed through and my manager had to come down and sign me in. If THATS good enough for mere OFFICES then its good enough for my kids. When was the last time you tried to get into a cinema without paying?! All these places are inconsequential compared to one childs life and ALL of them are harder to get into than some schools from what I'm reading here. Maybe the time has come to ask why. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Kevin_M on Oct 15th, 2006, 6:40am on 10/14/06 at 23:24:12, MJ wrote:
MJ, Most all of us have been giving opinions about the plan presented, Delta mentioned and Jonny agreed with, "there has to be a better way". Your school's more evasive and defense oriented plan would be I think, preferable for many of us here, it is much more agreeable than the one that started this thread. Many of us would easily agree with what you've presented, and it's good to see such a plan exists. What you presented doesn't use "rushing the gunman" as it's main strategy. Would you consent to that for your children? By having the plan in place that your children do, I'm glad to see you wouldn't have to make that decision. This is the main idea of the plan DD presented, and it seems quite different from the one at your children's school. Quote:
|
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:22am Quote:
It is not only feasible but currentle being implemented in Boston. Doors electronically lock at 8 AM. Your either in or out. Doors are electronically monitored at a all times. Metal detectors are used in the buildings. Hallways are cleared after a bell has rung. School police are always present. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Donna_D. on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:27am Interesting replies so far. Now...what would you say if I told you that... ...this program was funded by a $95,000.00 Federal Grant? ...this program is actually more like what is taught at MJ's kids school and not just a "rush the attacker". It includes teaching children about fire safety, first aid, what do do during and after a tornado strike as well as what to do when an armed intruder (be it student or adult) poses a threat to the school. ...that over 600 teachers and educators in this school district are now properly instructed on how to handle emergency situations. If a gunman does strike, they have a plan that includes not only the local authorities but also the staff on campus who, instead of panicking, now have been instructed on specific actions to take to protect our children. Just a couple of things to think about. How secure is YOUR child/grandchild/niece/nephew's school? Do they have an emergency plan in place for such scenarios? Have you DISCUSSED what you want your child to do or not to do in dangerous situations? Why do we teach our children that it is OK to fight against a stranger trying to abduct them but it isn't OK to fight against someone trying to hold them hostage? Once again, can't wait to see your responses. DD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:38am Why do we teach our children that it is OK to fight against a stranger trying to abduct them but it isn't OK to fight against someone trying to hold them hostage? Someone who is trying to abduct normally uses verbal deception. Someone taking hostages uses an AK-47. Quote:
Why wasn't that info in the original post? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:42am on 10/15/06 at 08:27:02, Donna_D. wrote:
Thats not what I read D, -BURLESON, Texas (AP) -- Youngsters in a suburban Fort Worth, Texas, school district are being taught not to sit there like good boys and girls with their hands folded if a gunman invades the classroom, but to rush him and hit him with everything they've got -- books, pencils, legs and arms. "Getting under desks and praying for rescue from professionals is not a recipe for success," said Robin Browne, a major in the British Army reserve and an instructor for Response Options, the company providing the training to the Burleson schools. Sean...................................... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:43am on 10/15/06 at 08:38:20, chewy wrote:
Exactly................................ |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:48am 2 pages of people's thoughts and comments based on partial information. Is this a game? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Kevin_M on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:48am This from the original post is nothing new and already taught in any high school health class and not noticably discussable but the only comments of "other" aspects of the program. Quote:
However, this is new, and discussable but not with a child. Quote:
|
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:58am on 10/15/06 at 08:27:02, Donna_D. wrote:
My daughter should flee, my daughters teacher should be taught how to take a bullet, not my child. This thread sucks, nothing good is going to come out of it. Fuck the grant, and most importantly fuck the morons who implemented this "anti terrorist frontline child combat implementaion training course". I agree with Chewy, this thread smells trollish. Its all yours folks, I'm out ;) Sen............................................. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 9:25am Quote:
You have also reserved information that was pertinant to an informed discussion |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Donna_D. on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:13am Sean you and Don have access to Google Internet Search just as well as I do. No, it isn't a game. I got interested in School security the day my daughters school went on "Crisis Lockdown". I went to have lunch with my daughter and found I couldn't gain entry. There were big orange signs posted on every door that stated as much. No one in no one out. When I called the school they wouldn't even tell me WHY. I called the school, the district office and finally the police to get an answer. Apparantly there was an armed gunman in the area and ALL the schools in the vicinity were locked tight for the safety of the children. That was a good thing. Not telling me WHY, was what I questioned. Now that I have moved to a new school district you can bet that was the first thing that I checked out was the safety and security of the school my child attends. If just ONE of you that has children that attend school takes the step of checking exactly HOW your school handles such emergency situations or talks to your child about what to do if such a situation arises in their school then this thread has been worth it. I take the safety of my children seriously. And Sean, don't you dare ever call anything I do "trollish" again. I don't "play games: with this family or with my childrens lives. DD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:14am Quote:
|
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Donna_D. on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:21am Quote:
I found the additional information at the time of my second post. The same information that you have access to through google. Don't blame me because you didn't do your homework before posting. Edited to add: The reason I went searching for more information was to see what all the program included and to get the information that Sean specifically asked for in an earlier post on this thread. Troll, Meh... DD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Charlie on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:36am Quote:
Some of us could do it. I think about psychos in McDonalds and would like to think that since I know that some creep with a AK-47 will try kill everybody in sight anyway that I'd go for him because at least we'd scare the shit out of him and perhaps save some lives. I'm not sure kids could do it. Teachers with Tasers? What tool that would be to handle little tool: Jonny.... :o 8) Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:37am on 10/15/06 at 11:21:47, Donna_D. wrote:
Do your own homework before you start a thread Donna. That was not the link I read. Lock down is not "rush the attacker kids, he's got an AK47" You best read your original post before you scold me. To me it was bait, I bit, and the whole topic is way out of line from the original link in my opinion. Don't change the subject to school safety. You started it, you finish it. I look forward to your answers, I'll reserve mine for later after I change my description of the original topic of what I meant compared to what I wrote. Thats trollish. End it. Sean.................................................... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:41am Its called bait and switch. Thats how it reads. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Donna_D. on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:49am Call it what you want, Don. ::) Sean, it has EVERYTHING to do with school security and HOW it is handled in individual schools. Do YOU know what they are teaching your child to do in her school if an armed gunman rushes her classroom? Do you intend to find out? Or are you just another internet tough guy who chooses to act indignant about it on the internet but does nothing in real life. You and Don can tag team and call me a troll if you want. I really don't give a rat's ass. I am sure there are some concerned parents reading this who may actually WANT to know what they are teaching in some schools and if they don't know what is being taught in their child's school, I bet they take that extra step to find out. Are YOU going to, Sean?? DD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 11:55am Just so you know Donna. I am on the Boston Schools Security and Strategic Planning Committee fro the Boston neighborhood in which I work. Quote:
So I guess not heh? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:03pm on 10/15/06 at 11:49:53, Donna_D. wrote:
Start a new thread Donna, your way off the original link that you asked for everybody's thoughts. For the record, I do NOT think Donna is a troll by a long shot, I thought the presentation of her second post was in a trollish format. It was not personal jab. Your right about what I know about my childs safety regarding a crisis at school. I don't have a clue what the school system has implemented, but I am going to find out................................now that we had this conversation ;) Thank you Donna ;;D Sean............................ |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Donna_D. on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:05pm on 10/15/06 at 11:55:12, chewy wrote:
Don, I think that is great! And I truly mean that. If I had the time and resources I would love to see EVERY school in America prepared for such a scenario. All I can do is take care of my corner of the world at the moment and try to share with all of you information that is sent my way. Too many kids die needlessly because of a "lack of planning" on the part of adults. IMHO, I am still divided whether or not my child should "rush an attacker" or not. HOWEVER, sure would make a student in that school think twice about pulling a gun on his or her classmates knowing that there is at least a plan of this nature in place. In too many schools our children are vulnerable. And to a sick psychotic gun wielding madman they are an easy target...like shooting fish in a barrel. I want to KNOW what lid they use to seal up that barrell to protect my kids. Too many decisions are left up to schools, IMHO. I am not going to raise my child to be a victim. DD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:10pm After a recent school shooting we did something novel. We had a community meeting at the High School and heres the breaking news for all the adults with all the solutions.................................................................... WE ASKED THE KIDS FOR THEIR INPUT! The auditorium was packed with kids and parents. Kids up front please. Parents kindly just listen. Three hours later a lot of adults who had all the answers left with a whole new set of questions. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:12pm on 10/15/06 at 12:05:28, Donna_D. wrote:
Rushing towards a gunman and throwing a pencil at the person and yelling loudly is NOT the answer. Too many bad decisions are made by our school system, I think that topic in the link proves that. Sean........................... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:14pm on 10/15/06 at 12:10:19, chewy wrote:
Democracy at its finest right there ;) |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Donna_D. on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:19pm Kids in high school today are a lot more "street wise" than their parent think they are and I am sure they offered a lot of good solutions. I have seen one school that based on student, educators and law enforcement input actually offer a reward for students (who remain anonymous to the other students) who "rat" on their fellow students. They get $50.00 if a knife is recovered and $500. for a gun. Not sure if that is the solution, but we all know "money talks". There are schools in Texas where every visitor must surrender their drivers license at the front desk where they are checked against the National Database for Sex Offenders. They have identified over 100 sex offenders since implementing the program, 20 of whom the police had lost track of and now several are in police custody. Another school in Houston has ID badges that the kids swipe through a machine as soon as they board the school bus and enter the school. Each student can be tracked throughthese badges radio frequency waves throughout the school day. There ARE good solutions out there...weeding through the good in the bad should be an intregal part of parenting and not left totally up to the schools. DD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:22pm If you want to know what is REALLY going on in a community then you ask the kids. After school all students are escorted to the busses or the train staion. No straggling, no hanging around. If a parent does not want their child on a bus or a train, then you come and pick them up. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:29pm on 10/15/06 at 08:22:14, chewy wrote:
I hear you, I think restriction is the best place to focus. So, Don, in Boston, at 8:01 a gunman would not be able to enter because the door is locked, but what about at 7:59? Is there security personnel at the door? I think to have 1 or 2 entry/exit points with metal detectors AND security personnel would make it pretty secure. Emergency exits can easily be armed with alarms. B$ |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Kevin_M on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:31pm on 10/14/06 at 10:29:15, Donna_D. wrote:
The audacity of the plan appeared the "the matter". Being without children, I guess I missed the point. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Racer1_NC on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:33pm What really bothers me is we live in a world that causes these type of discussions to be necessary. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by Sean_C on Oct 15th, 2006, 12:45pm Brian I maintain the parking lots for 48 out of 120 Boston Public Schools from November 1st till April 1st. Most of these schools are in drug infested, gang banger sections of the roughest neighborhoods of Boston. If you go to school at Dorchester High School, when you enter the Main and only entrance for morning access, you'll pass 2 empty Boston Police Cruisers parked out front and have to walk through a metal detector. Each police cruiser has 4 police officers in it, so a total of 8 armed police men are guarding all exits to the school. After the bell sounds for first period, the the doors are closed and you cannot gain access without ringing a bell and police officer inside opening it. There are no handles on the any of the outside doors. All windows are on the first 2 floors are barred. And armed security is in full force through out the day. Learning institution? Seems more like jail, but the kids know thats whats needed and feel safe and hopefully will be able to learn something. Whats scarey, this security isn't in fear of a madman wielding a gun, its to protect the kids from each other. Boston has had alot of murders this year thanks to MITTS cut backs. Mumbles hasn't impressed me either. Sean.......................................... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by LadyElaine1 on Oct 15th, 2006, 1:16pm I don't agree with how the school is training our children to fight someone who has a gun. Find a good place to hide and run when you can, and stay as calm as you can. It depends on what is happeing. I had a man point a gun to my head, I figured I was dead anyway, so I did what I do best when I am mad, I started yelling at him and cussing him out, matter of fact I told him to get out of my house. Surprisingly he left. There was another time a man pulled a knife on me, we were in his car. He drove down a dark rd. I kept my cool, told him hey if you want a piece of ass, no problem I am no virgin and don't plan to die saving it. I told him hey if you want it to be good put the knife on the dash, he did, and when the time was right I grabed the door handle and ran behind the car to some apartment. The police were able to get him. Yelling was right for the first one, going along with the second attacker was right for the second. Now as far as locking the doors when they shut thats ok but should a student leave someone can always get in the door, by grabing it before it closes. Most of the shootings are done by kids, kids that go to the school. Keeping wepons out of the school is what they need to do more than train kids to attacks. Thats Another reason I homeschool! ( before anyone attacks home schooling and say we are keeping them from being with other kids, please research home school. We make sure they have other children to play and interact with. Field trips with other home schoolers and so on. Thats another subject. ) |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 15th, 2006, 5:24pm Wow, Sean. I haven't seen anything like that. Things are a little different here in this small town. It's such a shame it has to be like that.....even just 15 years ago it wasn't this bad, was it? I think having 1 to 3 entry points is a good idea for any school. Most of the school shootings are from students, so its also probably a good idea to have metal detectors in addition to restricted access. I'm just thinking about my daughter's school.......a person can just walk right in their choice of door and do whatever they want. Of course, there is a policy that all visitors have to sign in, however, they only have to sign in if they feel like walking down to the office where the sign in sheet is located. That doesn't seem so secure to me. :-[ |
||||
|
Title: Re: Teaching Kids to fight back...Pro's and Con's Post by chewy on Oct 15th, 2006, 5:25pm Quote:
Most homicidal gumen wont do that. |
||||
|
Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1! YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved. |