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Title: CH and Suicide Post by Jasmyn on Oct 9th, 2006, 3:46am Yes, I said the dreaded word, the word with the stigma, the word all of us wants to avoid… SUICIDE! Whom of us suffering from Cluster Headaches has not stood in front of this door? Good for you if you haven’t and I hope that you never do. I have, not once but too many times. I open myself here so that you can crucify me, tell me to keep my opinions to myself, not to be so weak, not to hang my dirty laundry out in the open, not to bring others down but I am going to voice this even if I get alienated from my fellow sufferers. The pain of CH is but one part when considering the final option. You all know that it is the sum of the whole that eventually brings so much desperation that life itself seems to be worthless. First it is the pain, it is excruciating and we work hard to get through it. With this pain comes the exhaustion from sleepless nights and the battle. The body and mind cannot handle these repeated assaults. Depression sets in; our life seems to fall apart. The humiliation of losing control: over the pain, the state we are in, our irritability, our cognitive and motor skills, the impact on our loved ones, on our careers, our guilt, our bodies and our lives. It is easy when you had a break from constant hits, to forget the emotional state, the desperation and the depression you experienced. The women here will relate with me. It is like giving birth. At that moment, the pain is bad, you get exhausted, your emotions run high but when you look back it is very easy to forget the intensity until you are faced with that moment in childbirth again. Support is very important, to get it from family, friends, doctors and fellow sufferers. This is the stuff that pulls us through but not always… We also need HOPE! HOPE to know that someone is searching for an answer to end this condition, to make it more bearable, to allow us to eventually live a normal life. That the medical profession stand behind us, support us and want to help. We need HOPE that this fight is not going to last for the rest of our lives, that there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel. I only suffer from CH but there is no specific medication on the market that has been developed for this condition exclusively. I take over dosages of medications prescribed and designed for other conditions that I will most probably suffer from eventually if I keep on using these drugs. These medications in the end may just as well cost me my life or my quality of life with the damage they inflict in the long term. I run out of choices… I battle… I fear… Will I be strong enough the next time to pull myself together once again and survive? I can ignore the fear, sound strong and tuff and tell you that I will but I honestly don’t know because I know how alluring it is at that specific moment to just give up and give in. In that moment I ask and say to myself: Why carry on? Where is the hope? I’m losing myself, my self respect, my family. I am a burden to them and society. I am tired. Is this all worth it? When will this end? Who really cares? When life starts to resemble some normalcy once more, I see things differently but I know where I’ve been, how close I came. I cannot pretend that this is not part of this condition, that it will just go away, that I will handle it better the next time. I always try, I need to try, I have to try. How many more people must lose hope and end their lives before things change? This must STOP! If there is HOPE out there WE must find it! My heartfelt condolences to Lee’s family. In loving memory of all our fellow CHer’s that passed on. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 4:24am I never gave suicide a single thought, but I guess thats just me. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by bothofus on Oct 9th, 2006, 4:58am I remember and will probably never forget the overwhelming intense pain caused by clusters when the only relief was a trip to the ER for a shot of imi. Nothing compared to this pain. Just wait it out, pounded my head against the wall, wringing of hands, crying, total exhaustion, fear of the next one........................... I remember when the doc said it was possible to get a script for the shots. WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally some sanity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Emotions do run rampant and clear thinking was just another thought, no the only right thought. Life is beautiful, but can become overwhelming at times to the point of irrational thinking. Carl |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by purpleydog on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:10am Excellent post, Jas. With the exception of Jonny, I ask any sufferer here, who has not given this option a thought at least once? We all know how and where the beast takes us. We get hammered over and over and over again. It affects every aspect of our lives. Hope IS needed in our lives. Hope that a treatment that may work is around the corner. Hope that we won't have to suffer needlessly. One thing that gives me hope is hearing when a treatment works for someone here, and they have been painfree for a week. For two weeks. That they have broken their own record for painfree days. That maybe that will work for me. Or that it will work for my friends here who have it worse than me. Or that is HAS worked for my friends who have it worse than me. THAT gives me Hope! Do you realize how strong you really are? Whether you are episodic or chronic, getting hit and doing everything you can to fight it. And still getting up afterwards to carry on with your lives. It takes a lot of strength to do that. We do what we must. I don't know anyone else who would be able to deal with this situation who isn't a clusterhead. I'm sure our supporters would agree. We must continue to fight. And don't give up. You never know, today could be the day that something works. And today could be the day that it works for someone else. Which means another one of us has become painfree. That is a great thing. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by davyp on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:24am Well i do appologise for even bothering to post |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by The mad viking on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:33am As many of you know i do have 2 halfhearted suicideattempt behind me.The last back in 2001. I would say that nobody here has the right to call me a chicken or look down on me bc of that We all Jonny or no Jonny can take that much pain and thats it. With that i also mean that depression is also pain However i do think we all me included are telling ourself and others that the suicideword is taboo That word as all the other elements of ch should be there out in the open After all the help and support and friendship both me and Bente have recieved from the docs in Norway and our family here in Clusterville i have as a payback dedicated my life to try ,at least try help other sufferers that not have reach that line yet,locally with Norges Migreneforbund and internationally trough OUCH and Clusterville . In order to acheive some reqognition "who believe us today"and help from what we are suffering from we need and i mean NEED to be 100% OPEN about every aspect of what we are suffering from. First then we can start try get the peps out there understand this horrible illness called clusterheadaches Just my 2 cent worth Btw Jasmyn Thanks for well written thoughts. Im NOT trying to hijack your thread but rather filling in my thoughts of the same subject *HUGS* Svenn |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:37am Oh great, now we have a forum for the suicide pity party. Deal with what you have and get the fuck over this bullshit!!!! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BarbaraD on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:42am Jasymn that was written beautifuly and so true of most of us. Yes, we think about suicide and we have a "plan". Support is so important and this board gives a lot of it. Hope is something we all have, but get weary at times of there ever being anything to help us. Maybe someday there will be a cause and cure for this beast and we won't have to watch one of our own take his/her life ever again. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by sandie99 on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:39am Jasmyn, wonderful post! :) Personally I think that it's important to deal with this. I haven't met anyone who knows even a bit about ch who would call ch sufferer a chicken because they have thought about suicide. When I tell people about ch, I always mention that it's also called "a sucicide headache". I have thought about suicide and I was very close opening that door in Spring 2004. Since then I have wondered what it was that made me close that door without trying? It sure was not being PF; it sure was not medications, because I had to live without any for a while. My answer? Hope, faith and support from the people right here. Naturally, it is difficult to tell when a clusterbrother or clustersister is having such a hard time that they're close to that edge. I'm sure that some are hiding that because of depression or shame or for some other season. I bet that if I had done in 2004, my flatmate and landlady would have said that they thought that I was fine "but had horrible headaches". I know that I am hell of a lot stronger than I was back in 2004. But nobody knows about the future. That's why I walk around with a tiny note, which says who to contact if something happends. And that's why there's a note in my will that someone must inform everyone here at clusterheadaches.com that I'm not around anymore. I hope and pray that we could prevent others from taking their lives. I'm not sure how, though. We're not all like you, Jonny. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:57am BEFORE ANYONE ACTUALLY THINKS SERIOUSLY OF TAKING THE EASY WAY OUT .. PLEASE THINK OF THE PAIN IT WILL CAUSE THE FAMILY, AND THAT MEANS THE SPOUSE, THE CHILDREN AND FRIENDS, TO SUFFER ... TO END ONE SUFFERING BUT STARTING SEVERAL OTHERS ... IS IT WORTH IT ? Annette ( And yes I had been through bad enough times myself to have overdosed once, ended up in hospital getting my stomach pumped. These days no matter how hard, how bad things are, I will NEVER do that to my husband and children ) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by brewcrew on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:00am on 10/09/06 at 05:10:34, purpleydog wrote:
Since the news of Lee's passing, it almost seems like I should feel guilty to admit this, but I've never considered it to be an option. So mark me down as #2. Just being honest. And feeling fortunate. Bill |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by purpleydog on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:02am on 10/09/06 at 06:57:37, BB wrote:
I don't think Jas was encouraging anyone to take this option, merely bringing up a fact of having CH. They are called the suicide headache. Thoughts of this are a fact of life for most of us. It doesn't mean anyone will act on it. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by cateyes on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:13am Sorry all I am with Jonny...I have never even thought about it for a second...But maybe that is because when I was little, living with the beast I had my (don`t ya`ll laugh cause I really do call him this ) Daddy...He has always been theer for me and walked the floors carring me till my feet actually hung on the ground when he tried...And as I got older...He is still there when he can be...But I have 3 kids that I would never do that too...I wanna stick around and torture them in my old age... But I was fortunate to have a family that made sure I knew they were there for me when the beast was kicking my ass... And then again...Maybe I havent felt the pain the rest have felt when they think about it..or attempt it.. I do feel bad for the families that have dealt with it thru the years and my prayers are sent out to each and eveyone ... Good vibed to all.. Cateyes |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:14am Yes, indeed. And as a doctor and a supporter, I need to say something to discourage people from even contemplating it. A public forum discussing sensitive topics such as this at a high time when many people are emotional might lead to negative result. I took an oath : first do no harm, so I will try my best to prevent harm in any shape or form. Not trying to belittle or upset anyone, just trying to do my job : save lives. Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:29am The incidence is so low as to not merit the attention. Have I wished I were dead? Yes. Contemplated suicide? No. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by the_old_man on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:38am I guess I'm with Jonny and the others. After 30 years of battling the beast without meds, and knowing all that my family has gone thru to support me, there is NO way I could ever put them thru that. That has NEVER been an option for me. The Old Man |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by burnt-toast on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:50am I must say that I've never considered suicide as my way out. However, during extremely brutal attacks I've frequently said to my wife that I fully understand how given the wrong circumstances, someone can be driven over the edge by this disorder. Many bumps in life's road can push even the strongest to their limits. Add in the drugs we take, sleep deprivation, physical/mental exhaustion and repetitive/severe pain and the potential for tradgedy increases. I'm with Jazz on this, I don't think we can hide from this potential. Being ashamed of, and internalizing thoughts of suicide can lead to tradgedy. Anyone who has, is, or does contemplate suicide should get these thoughts out into the open with those that we love, those that will understand, and immediately seek professional help. If you need help and support getting through it, please don't be afraid to ask. Tom |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Redd715 on Oct 9th, 2006, 8:43am I hate to argue semantics here, but in support of Jaz, I feel I must. Consider: Quote:
Because we ponder, or contemplate an isssue, does not equate to acceptance or attempting the act. It's only that we've carefully and thoughfully reflected upon the issue. How can one come to the conclusion that it is NOT an option if they have not thoughtfully pondered it? I have thought about it. Carefully pondered the issue, more than once over the years. Only because I've considered it, have been able to conclude that I do not find it a viable option. I made the consious choice to not allow my children to find me that way. My father committed suicide when I was 14. My own healing involved education into the process of such an act. Gator was dead on. This is a very real presipus for many people. Most walk the other way, and fight the fight. For the others, however, the fear of the next attack, on top of everything else going on, can be that final straw. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Sean_C on Oct 9th, 2006, 8:55am Jas that was an beautiful post that came from the heart, I loved it. You can hang your dirty laundry out here any time you want too ;) I think some of you folks mis-read her intent in the post, she opened he heart to all, she said it like it is, and she's right. I couldn't agree with her more, we do need to talk about it, its a fact of life, we should have a life line when we are in desparate need of inspiration. Thank you all for posting your true feelings, you are definately NOT alone :-* Sean........................................ |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 8:58am Quote:
Your already on it. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Charlotte on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:00am I have a strong survival urge. I'm sad when someone does take this option. It is not common. I have a big family and we've had 3: 2 were in their 80's, one in his 20's. I think depression was the main culprit. This is the 1st I've heard of here. with this many people, it it were as common as the name suggests, we would have had more. Charlotte ps and yes, I also consider this site a lifeline. I came here because I needed a lifeline and I want to be here as part of a continued lifeline. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Sean_C on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:03am on 10/09/06 at 08:58:56, chewy wrote:
Are you gonna save me at 2am? I could call you now and you wouldn't pick up the phone you nut LMAO ;;D ;;D OUCH UK had a life line, not sure if they still do, you'd call a number and people would be paged, not sure how well it worked, maybe Helen can find out for us. Sean............................................. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:04am After a month or two of no or little sleep, the brain isn't right, add pain and fear to the equation, and you have trouble. I've thought about it once or twice, then thought about the pain and suffering it will cause others. I would rather deal with my pain than have others deal with pain I caused. Matt |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Charlotte on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:05am a lifeline is not the same as a hotline, but I do think someone is here 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and there are people you can call. When I was new, I saw posts about the buddy system. And no one else can "save" you. I'm sorry, but we are all on our own in that respect. Charlotte |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:06am I get the need to discuss it. I understand that even if you haven't contemplated it, many of us have thought that if this is the way it's going to be, then god should go ahead and just pop a vessel up there and take me the rest of the way. But, a forum of this type has its limitations by virtue of it being what it is. For example, a couple weeks ago someone came on to share that Meth is the only tool they found that works for them for CH. Even if it were so, the idea of someone coming on this forum to recommend what is essentially suicide itself as a treatment I was disgusted. The anguish is there for those of you that suffer far worse than I, I understand that. But, as close to being family as we presuppose we are, I'm just not all that certain of the benefit of the suicide contemplation in the public forum. Jaz, I love your writing - you are one of the most thoughtful writers on this forum. My response is really trying to push for consideration among us all as to what is the basis for the forum and where do we take it on a daily basis. And for its most frequent participants and contributors do we indeed set a tone and underlying objective as a support unit. And if so, what the limits of that support. Getting a bit over-philosophical I guess. But, as much as I appreciate Jaz's thoughtfulness I also totally get Jonny's posts here on this thread and probably embrace that as closer to my heart's reaction here. Scott |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:13am No need to re-invent the wheel here. http://suicidehotlines.com/national.html |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Filbert on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:15am Sean you are right Ouch uk does still have a helpline. If you phone the number you get a recorded message and you leave your contact details. Whoever the volunteer is for that day then phones you back. All the helpliners are cluster sufferers. If someone rang in the middle of the night though they almost certainly wouldn't get a response until the next morning. Fil. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by aprilbee on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:16am I'm with Jonny, et al....I've never thought about it, I've prayed to God to end it, even if it meant death, but I've never contimplated taking myself out... :-/ |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Charlotte on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:17am This is a topic closer to my heart than meth as a cure. I think it is part of the grieving process to talk about it. Even though I didn't know Lee, I am grieving. Charlotte |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Sean_C on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:21am on 10/09/06 at 09:15:07, Filbert wrote:
Maybe we could do something like that Fil, can you get any feed back from people over at OUCH UK for us? Thanks a million, Sean.............................. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by pattik on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:22am Quote:
Don't worry, Jas, there won't be any crucifiction here today. Thank you for posting on the subject. Suicide is just one more part of life, so I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be discussed here. Maybe CH'ers have a higher incidence of suicide than the general population, but it's still pretty low in the big scheme of things. To this point in my life, I have never come even remotely close to suicide or even contemplating it. Life is beautiful to me, and should be lived to the fullest between the hits. Quote:
Although it's a rhetorical question, I'll still answer with an opinion. Things are changing. I've see it happening all the time. It's just a matter of perspective. People lose hope and end their lives for all sorts of reasons and most often it's a multitude of reasons, not just one. I think the will to survive is as variable in each of us as we are variable to each other. I won't presume to know another person's soul or their pain that takes them to this point. And I won't judge them for it. I pray that I never have to experience a loved one taking their own life. That kind of loss is unimaginable to me as well as totally mystifying. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:24am Quote:
One word. LIABILITY Think about it. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by unsolved1 on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:28am There's no reason for me to lie. I'm sure everyone here would rather hear the truth anyways. I have thought about suicide on several occasions, but never did anything to put the thoughts into action. All I ever really wanted was some pain free time and an ease in pain intensity. I love my son and family too much to leave. :) I MUST KEEP GOING !! UNsolved <Here for the long haul> |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by sandie99 on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:31am All of us clusterheads in Finland can get help from Finland's Migraine Organisation as we do not have OUCH of our own. We have a helpline in here. In case another Finnish clusterhead reads this, the number is: 050 533 1014. If nobody picks it up right away, send a text message and you'll be contacted. There's also email address Finnish clusterheads can contact: hortontuki@migreeni.org Sanna |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:33am We dont know why Lee took his life, that being said can anyone tell me the name of any member of this board that took his/her life because of CH? Piera, Cazman, Brian Y, Athos and Tony G all died in thier sleep. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:34am Quote:
Nope. I can't. Not a one. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Charlotte on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:36am it is a sad slant that instead of a tribute to lee, we're talking about suicide. Charlotte |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:37am on 10/09/06 at 09:36:28, Charlotte wrote:
Thank you, Char......thank you!! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:58am Sincere question=Jonny how do you know that they died in their sleep? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:01am on 10/09/06 at 09:58:11, DonnaHar wrote:
because thats what was told to us by their loved ones....should I call them liars? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:06am It doesn't even matter. I know of absolutely no one who has taken their life solely due to the pain of CH. Want a hotline? You better have trained people on the other end and carry some heavy insurance. Want to do it through CH.com? Deej better have a damn good lawyer. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by pattik on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:10am on 10/09/06 at 09:36:28, Charlotte wrote:
Sorry, I have to disagree. There is already a thread for condolences, and suicide is a perfectly legitimate subject to discuss on a general board. Why should it be taboo? People don't have to read it. Besides, maybe it's a tribute to Lee that people ARE discussing it. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:17am Jonny, No, please don't call them liars. You've answered the question I asked. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:25am Heres my problem on 10/09/06 at 03:46:42, Jasmyn wrote:
on 10/09/06 at 05:10:34, purpleydog wrote:
Why is someone telling me that I have thought of killing myself, because I never have....but, for some reason these folks are telling me I have or we ALL have!......Why? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:27am I've thought of killing him. That count? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BarbaraD on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:34am I did KNOW someone who took his life due to CH. A 51 year old doc in Gladewater TX. My first thought when I heard it was - At least Jerry isn't hurting anymore. Suicide is a subject that we should discuss. I've brought it up several times over the years. But, having said that, this MB has been a lifeSAVER to several I know of. Sometimes we, as CHers, pick up a clue from someone and either call them or e-mail them and several times (that I know of) this has SAVED a life. Also having had a 15 year old neice take this way out, I KNOW what it can do to a family. You always have the question "if" - if I'd just done this or that. We're not wimps or chickens, but we do lose hope at times and need someone who understands what we're going thru. My phone line has been open 24/7 since I found this board and I have a few phone numbers that I can call if I need to. But I do feel that the more we get it out in the open and the more we talk about it, the less likely we'll be to lose another family member. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Mrs Deej on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:37am Jazz, Honey, you state things so passionately, heart-felt, and with grace. Never feel that you can't talk about things on this forum. If people don't like it....fuckem!!! ;) Suicide is a scary factor in everyones life, you have either known someone who has, a neighbor whose brothers wife's cousin did it, or yourself, at one time thought that life sucked so bad that you would rather be dead. Regardless if you have it planned, EVERYONE at one time in their life has wanted the pain, depression, hurt, etc. to end. (This doesn't mean you have wanted to commit suicide!!!) And there is nothing to be ashamed of about that, or those thoughts....you're breathing and have a pulse! Regardless of what y'all think, it's a simply truth of life. Suicide is there whether you suffer from CH or not. Just my [smiley=twocents.gif] Steph Occurrence Most popular press articles suggest a link between the winter holidays and suicides (Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania 2003). However, this claim is just a myth. Suicide took the lives of 30,622 people in 2001 (CDC 2004). In 2002, 132,353 individuals were hospitalized following suicide attempts; 116,639 were treated in emergency departments and released (CDC 2004). In 2001, 55% of suicides were committed with a firearm (Anderson and Smith 2003). Males Suicide is the eighth leading cause of death for all U.S. men (Anderson and Smith 2003). Males are four times more likely to die from suicide than females (CDC 2004). Suicide rates are highest among Whites and second highest among American Indian and Native Alaskan men (CDC 2004). Of the 24,672 suicide deaths reported among men in 2001, 60% involved the use of a firearm (Anderson and Smith 2003). Females Women report attempting suicide during their lifetime about three times as often as men (Krug et al. 2002). Risk Factors Previous suicide attempt(s) History of mental disorders, particularly depression History of alcohol and substance abuse Family history of suicide Family history of child maltreatment Feelings of hopelessness Impulsive or aggressive tendencies Barriers to accessing mental health treatment Loss (relational, social, work, or financial) Physical illness Easy access to lethal methods Unwillingness to seek help because of the stigma attached to mental health and substance abuse disorders or suicidal thoughts Cultural and religious beliefs—for instance, the belief that suicide is a noble resolution of a personal dilemma Local epidemics of suicide Isolation, a feeling of being cut off from other people |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:43am on 10/09/06 at 10:37:22, Mrs Deej wrote:
Nope! Edit to add:......Nice catch on the edit....LOL ;) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:45am on 10/09/06 at 10:37:22, Mrs Deej wrote:
okay.... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by aprilbee on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:46am They dubbed CH the suicide headache before they knew what it was before they knew how to treat it...people were put in institutions.....we've come a long way and this condition puts strain on us, but we are the strongest people I know....we fight harder than anyone on a daily basis....that makes me/us strong, not weak...and I agree with Jonny, please don't tell me I must have thought about suicide becuase I never have, I grew up with this condition, just like having brown hair....Its a part of who I am. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Mrs Deej on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:47am Well honey, you're the King, so why would you? ;) (It truely is sad that people feel this is the only way out.) Life is too short, too beautiful, too precious to just end it!! (regardless if you have a shitty life or not) Take what we have been given and roll with the punches...that's what I do! :-* |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:51am I think it's about time we had a discussion on this subject....and a big Thank YOU Jaz for your straight forward post. By others admission, she is certainly not the only one. The combination of frustration, sleep deprivation, etc. are things we all suffer with this illness. I do not think, however, that we plan to commit suicide. The actual act is done at the height of unbearable pain. The other factors may play a part in the event, but it is certainly the pain of the moment that causes the event. Jaz points out that HOPE is what we need and I agree 100%. Without hope, what do we have? How do we achieve hope? By calling attention to our illness. By making others aware of it. That is why I posted that first post. We must all get involved in some way and let our voices be heard. We must call attention to ourselves and CH. We have the numbers to do these things. Why can't we break ourselves down into regions, name a day and have walk-a-thons down the main streets of our towns? That is something that almost all of can do. Let's get our shirts on and get out there. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:58am Donna, because many of us don't agree on how attention is brought to our affliction. i choose not to consider the idea that I suffer from "suicide headaches" or suffer from "the worst pain known to man". i don't deny that these are definitions others use but I personally can not define them in this way and maintain the fight when in cycle. i don't want to wear a "mental t-shirt" that proclaims I'm a survivor of "suicide headaches". What a bullshit stigma. Or diminish others by proclaiming my pain worse than someone elses. Many experience pain in many ways. Yet, we spend plenty of time as community claiming our unique title as the "worse pain known to man". Yet, I love this community and know the pain myself. Scott |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by The mad viking on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:00am If we cant axept that suicide is one element of many we deal or might deal with when we are suffering from CH,then i cant see how we can deal with that problem No "elements "of clusterheadaches should be kept a secret or "tabooword" Some of you just cant axept that fact,or some of you put on a mask to be able to ignore it. No matter what you do it are still there Svenn |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:01am Quote:
Show me definitively that its happened. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:02am on 10/09/06 at 10:51:37, DonnaHar wrote:
Really? on 10/08/06 at 09:48:21, _Lee_ wrote:
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Mike_P on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:04am The helpline over here in The UK takes 30 to 40 calls a month and as a registered charity we have, from memory, £500,000's of insurance. We also have to send our helpliners for training with a recognised body an expensive business. However we primarily give advice on the treatment of CH and listen to callers talking about the problems of CH suffering. Most of the callers have never spoken with another sufferer and that in itself seems to be therapeutic. We have had many who have said that without the helpline they might not be here. I tend to think that this is just a way of a thank you rather than a fact. We are not however trained to deal with people who might be contemplating suicide and would normally suggest they spoke with one of the other organizations, usually The Samaritans who are much better equipped to deal with this sort of situation. Last October one of our members attempted suicide by overdose and ended up on a life support, she has now; thank God made a full recovery. Mike OUCH UK (Trustee) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:08am Quote:
Can you document that or is that just what you think? Quote:
Absolutely agreed. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:18am Scott...You have missed my message completely. I am not suggesting that we wear shirts proclaiming that we suffer from suicide headaches. OUCH shirts (as are sold in the OUCH store and worn to OUCH conventions.....and you don't have to be a member) are what I was referring to. Jonny, it would be nice to hear your thoughts without the sarcasm. You might have some really good points to make that could change a lot of minds. Really. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:24am This is suprising to me. Like Sean said, I was under the impression that just about everyone has thought about it. Most of us say that the pain we would cause our family is not worth it, others give reasons such as religion. It's possible that we dont know everyone in the world. Please dont make absolute statements based on the 5 or 6 cases that you know of. Just on this internet site, there have been more than 10k registered members, less than 500 are still around. We can't generalize or make statements on the entire world population based on this group. Thank you Jaz for posting this. I think this subject is (was) a part of life for a lot of us. As ugly as this subject is, it should not be swept under the carpet. Research has said that depression is a leader in suicide. Research also says that cluster sufferers often become depressed. B$ |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by FramCire on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:25am on 10/09/06 at 10:27:28, chewy wrote:
Except for Jonny, is there any of us who hasn't thought of killing Jonny? lol Seriously though, chewy said it best: Have I wished I were dead? Yes. Contemplated suicide? No. I have many times asked God to give me pain free time whatever needed to happen. However, I never really thought about doing it myself. With that said, I find it hard to believe anyone here wouldn't understand wanting to end the pain. Some people are just willing to do things others aren't. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:27am no i get your point Donna. i'm using shirts as a rhetorical tool ("mental t-shirt"). with regard to killing one's self, folks can call it denial or choose to discuss it inspite of the discomfort that others have with the subject. stephanie's post is right. if I don't like it, fuck me. but i can tell you from a personal standpoint that the value in this site for me has been the message of hope and strength. time spent over analyzing my despair has gotten me zip. time spent fighting and looking for answers, priceless....... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:28am on 10/09/06 at 11:18:22, DonnaHar wrote:
My thoughts straight up?....Sure! Why are people trying to tell me that I have thought of killing myself....I never have, "Oh God please take me now" when im in battle....sure!....but, I have NEVER thought of killing myself and I have been doing this for a long fucking time. No sarcasim, it is what it is in my world!! Thats all I got! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:38am on 10/09/06 at 11:28:30, Jonny wrote:
Nobody is saying that Jonny. Its possible that you are not the only person in the whole world. Maybe, just maybe, this thread is about something other than your specific feelings or experiences. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:42am on 10/09/06 at 11:38:50, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Read up the thread to the quotes shit-head ;;D |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:45am Scott......I get what you are saying now. Thanks Jonny....I had clusters for 28 years, without meds, and I never ever contemplated suicide either. I had three little kids counting on just me, so I guess suicide wasn't something that seemed like any kind of an alternative. I do know the pain of a Kip 10 and had a friend rush me to the hospital more than a couple of times, but I was fortunate not to have more than 3 hits on a normal day in a twice a year cycle. But I do wish we could help those who might go off the deep end. That's what started me going on this. I can't prove anything, but I have been here when we were all sweating it out while we talked someone out of doing it. More than once. Or while we tried to track somebody down who was on the mission. I believe you when you say you never thought about trying. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:52am Quote:
And thats my problem with the whole discussion. We are associating CH with suicide and there is no evidence that it actually happens. 30 years of Ch, 6 years here on the board, and I still have not even heard of one single individual who has done the deed solely because of CH. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:53am on 10/09/06 at 11:42:10, Jonny wrote:
I've read the thread. In no place does anyone say specifically that Jonny has tried or thought of suicide as an option. Even though you want to make shit up and be the victim, it doesnt exist. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:54am B$ stop interupting a valid discussion with your personal bullshit and take it to PM. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:58am on 10/09/06 at 11:53:06, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Here you go dip-shit on 10/09/06 at 03:46:42, Jasmyn wrote:
If that aint a blanket statement what is? Down boy....your showing your true jonny hating colors!! ;) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:58am on 10/09/06 at 11:52:53, chewy wrote:
Don, Annette, Svenn and Sanna all said they have either thought hard about it or actually tried it. I too have thought long and hard about it. Sean also said he has thought about it. Is this enough evidence? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:02pm on 10/09/06 at 11:58:33, Jonny wrote:
Jonny, you stupid fuck. When sentences end with ?, that means it is a QUESTION, not a STATEMENT. In no place does anyone say specifically that Jonny has tried or thought of suicide as an option. Even though you want to make shit up and be the victim, it doesnt exist. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LeLimey on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:04pm Chewy as MikeP has already stated, I do personally know one person who has attempted suicide based solely on CH. They had everything to live for in every other way but couldn't bear the unremitting pain and they felt they had explored every option. Its not my way, I can sit here and say I've wanted to die, and I've been afraid I wouldn't die.. but I've never considered killing myself. We are all different, we all have different emotional tolerances, physical tolerances.. you name it we differ as human beings. What one of us would contemplate wouldn't be considered as an option at all by someone else be it surgery, alternatives or suicide. We all do what we feel is right for us. Whatever others think. I have my own feelings on suicide and it would be the most unlikely option ever for me based on my children and people I love, alot of whom are here. Suicidal thoughts so cross peoples minds though and whilst I take on board your points about insurance etc, practical issues relating to this discussion.. I do feel we need to have some plan formulated even if its only to tell people to call the Samaritans or whatever other suicide helplines are available. We need to accept that we ARE all different and need different kinds of help. Hells bells, verap doesn't work for all of us.. how would the same mental approach to CH?! I don't like this discussion, it makes me uncomfortable as I'm sure it does everyone else participating but if we can work out a plan which will help ONE person.. its worth it. I'm in. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:05pm on 10/09/06 at 12:02:12, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Hey Flo!!!.....you aint missed much.....LMMFAO!!!! [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:07pm I don't want to get into the should we/should we not discuss this battle or the "everyone has thought about it"/"most people have not thought about it" battle...but I would like to just share my own thoughts, if that's okay. I'm 25, and I guess the first time I started having suicidal thoughts, I was about 16 or so. Around this summer, those thoughts were stronger than ever. I won't get into the "poor me" details of why I was as depressed as I was... Is there an element of self-pity in full-blown, suicidal depression? Yeah... For me, it was mostly loneliness. The worst day for me was the day after I came home from vacation at the shore with my family. I went to work for a 12 hour day - my family was all still together at the beach. I had a bad assignment and I got yelled at by other nurses and docs to the point where I was in tears. I felt like shit between the clusters and the migraine, but that's the status quo for me... My best friend at work had said she would come over that night, but just before work ended, when I asked her if she was still coming over, she told me she had made other plans. I walked away with tears burning in my eyes, not saying a word about just how badly I needed her to come over. She might just have changed her plans to stay with me, but when I feel at my very worst, I can't reach out to anyone. Not here...not anywhere. So as I drove home, I tried so hard not to break down in tears until I could get into the safety of my own apartment. I kept thinking about how my life is empty; my job isn't going well; I feel awful (physically) all the time; etc etc....I could not see one good thing in my life...not one. I remember trying to hold back the overwhelming urge to sob, even as I walked from my car to my apartment, and breaking down in tears before I got to the door. I went inside and checked my phone to see if anyone had called me. I realize this was close to the ultimate moment of self-pity... Nobody. The same as every day. I couldn't take it anymore. I just felt so lost...so alone....so empty. I sat on the couch and just cried. My mom called me, and I held it together for a few minutes - she asked if I had a cold because I sounded stuffy...I told her that no, I was just tired, but I was fine. I can't reach out when I hurt that badly. Did I have a plan? Yup... Out of the blue, I got an IM from BillyJ on MSN. He talked to me for hours, and he gave me that OUCH crisis website. The link that helped me more than anything else and probably helped save my life was this: http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ I still refer to it from time to time. I knew how much pain my family would be in if I did anything, and I know that's what stops me. I know how bad my own pain is, but I cannot bear to inflict pain on anyone else. Billy was a tremendous help that night in basically helping me get through it. From the point of view who has considered suicide, several times - I must say that it's never been in the throes of a bad hit for me. It's more the between hits.....when I think that I just can't bear to go through that again. But really, CH wasn't what made me feel so suicidal...yes my physical pain contributes to a lot of the depression, but that in itself isn't what made me want to end my life. I think the emptiness and despair had much more to do with it.... I've said many times that for me, I compare the suicidal thoughts to someone who hears voices but is tormented b y them. I can rationally sit here and say that I don't want to end my life. Most people know me as a pretty bubbly person who really loves a lot of things in life. Just ask Helen how many times I made her stop so I could take pictures of things in England just because they looked so pretty. But the thoughts just wouldn't stop coming back in the summer....I just wanted to put my hands over my ears and scream to STOP IT. And I don't hear voices....but the thoughts that suicide was the only way to handle what I was going through? They just kept coming...... So I don't know what to make of all that. I made it through. I'm still here, fighting every day. I still sometimes have suicidal thoughts, but I'm much better than I was in July. I'm not on an antidepressant or anything like that, and sometimes I wonder why not, but I generally work with my psychiatrist twice a week, and that has been invaluable to me. Sorry this is so long - I just wanted to share my piece. I'm not sure I got across what I really wanted to say, but I did want to say that the pain of just CH alone didn't make me want to commit suicide, but the pain of CH plus everything else in my life? Yeah........ And I couldn't just get up and deal with it - it wasn't about that. I was out of coping resources and just couldn't ask for help because I didn't want people to see me as pathetic. Anyways - gotta get a shower so I can be at my appt. I just hope that for better or worse, this conversation at least raises awareness about suicide and that it's a real problem that can affect all types of people in all types of situations. It should not be something that people feel so embarrassed to talk about that they end up just holding it all inside... I just wish nobody had to feel that much pain that they felt the only answer was suicide.... Hugz and PF wishes to all, Carrie |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:07pm Best to ignore B$ if a valid discussion is neccesary. Quote:
OK. Now I'm interested in the possible validity of it. You said attempted. What stopped him/her? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:10pm If I remember correctly Lee posted that he had a stroke, the guy had alot more than CH going on in his life. No one but Lee knows why he did what he did. And those of us that have thought about it at one time or another don't need someone dismissing those feelings or thoughts. Just because one of us hasn't felt or thought that way, does not rise you above the rest of us. Might as well be telling those that have to take an aspirin and lay down. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by FramCire on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:11pm on 10/09/06 at 11:52:53, chewy wrote:
I honestly don't think anyone would kill themselves because of CH and not have other factors (depression, for instance). However, Ch could certainly be the trigger to the attempt, that I think we can all agree to. The fact that noone else here has done it may be a testimony as to how important this place is. It gives hope to people who might have been hopeless. B$: Cut the crap. I don't have a problem with you but you are not really being a positive poster in this topic. Your semantics are holding back an interesting discussion. PS I have quoted chewy like 3 times in this thread and had nothing but positive comments... I must really be sick today. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:15pm on 10/09/06 at 12:10:28, maffumatt wrote:
Huh? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:15pm Quote:
Shit happens. 8) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:15pm Don........you quoted me as saying ....."I can't prove anything", but you neglected to finish my sentence. Not finishing the sentence works out nicely for you, but alters my thought completely. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:16pm on 10/09/06 at 12:11:37, FramCire wrote:
That's the point. Right on! It is the community functioning as it does naturally. How many times have people remarked about someone not posting much lately, or AWOL....? Or, noting that someone sounds a little down and folks sending out vibes or giving them a call? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LeLimey on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:17pm on 10/09/06 at 12:07:57, chewy wrote:
It was a serious attempt. It was very hit or miss for several days as to whether she would survive or not. She was in a coma in intensive care and her first thought on waking was devastation and having not succeeded. She truly meant to die, it was no cry for help. I don't want to go into any more detail here Chewy as I'm sure you can understand but I'll take it to im's if you like. Helen |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:20pm Quote:
First off I'm not looking for anything to "work out nicely for me". Secondly I only quoted part of it because it wasn't directed at you personally. Sorry if that dissapoints you but my point was no one seems to have definitive proof of suicide relating directly to CH. Until maybe now. Quote:
Not neccesary. If you say it was directly caused by CH then thats good enough for me and also a first for me to hear. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:24pm This fucking thread is leading to nothing but in fighting! Im punching the fuck out!! If someone has a problem with me....you know where the PM is!!! See ya!!! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by catlind on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:31pm Jas, I personally respect your opinions and think you made a great post. My thoughts are that many people have considered suicide when facing the exhaustion, pain and depression of this condition, but typically it is in connection with many other factors in their lives. Someone loses their job because they don't have ch controlled, their marriage fails, they don't have people who understand ALL aspects of their life etc. Suicide is an intricate and complex issue. I don't think anyone can point to any ONE factor that pushes someone over the edge. I've attempted it myself, actually succeeded - I was delivered DOA (dead on arrival) to the hospital. I awoke in intensive care. CH was a part of it, although at the time I didn't know it was called CH. A bad marriage, depression caused by many factors, and other issues in my life led me to the act. I'll tell you from experience, I left no note, I called no one, I took nearly 500 pills of every kind including some antibiotics cause they were there, washed it all down with some vodka and sat down in the living room to play nintendo. I was very at peace with my decision, I had rationalized it for many many months, and the days before I did the deed, those around me thought I was doing 'better'. The day I took the pills, a friend called. She simply felt there was something not right with me...afterwards she said it was because I seemed so calm and content. What would be termed as a 'good day'. Her instincts led her to call my now ex husband, who called my doctor and that is why I am around today. That and my doctor's words when I awoke in ICU were "You're too damn stubborn to die". It was a very unwise action that had a host of long term implications. It was a permanent solution to a temporary problem That's what I want everyone who considers this option to remember, no matter what it is going on in your life, it is always temporary. Things DO change. If you are someone who is actively considering this as a viable solution, then you need to go immediately and seek medical assistance. These boards are dubbed a lifeline to many, and I am one who says this site saved my life; however, those of us who frequent this board and consider ourselves family, are for the most part, not professionally trained to help a person in crisis of that magnitude. If you are in this state of mind, go to an emergency room, go to your doctor, get the help available to get you through your temporary state of problems. I admire those who are strong enough to never consider this option. Having considered and acted upon it myself, it is a stupid thing to do, and most people are not tough enough to be that stupid (read that as you might just succeed). I know the black hole that is felt, the feelings that your current situation has no hope and the only option is OUT and not UP; That is not true, that is a state of mind brought on solely by the precipitating factors and people learned to rationalize those factors, and they perceive a lack of options. I've learned there are always options, if you are religious, let go and let God, if you are not religious, turn to science and medicine and for everyone regardless of their faith and belief, turn to those who truly care about you and talk with them - you might find they are far more understanding than you believe. Again, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Find the strength to reach out and change your state. Cat |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:33pm But Don, you WERE quoting me.......and it is you that I am disappointed in. I know.....you could care less. I'm out of here. This isn't a discussion anymore. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 9th, 2006, 12:46pm on 10/09/06 at 12:33:02, DonnaHar wrote:
I think Cat's post says almost all that needs to be said and we can probably end the thread there. Thanks for putting it up there Cat! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 1:03pm Donna, I quoted your words because it is those words that perfectly support my argument that no one has been able to connect the act directly to the condition. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by vig on Oct 9th, 2006, 1:33pm read below..... never, Never, NEVER give up. you have NO idea when things will CHange. there is ALWAYS hope! yup, things can look pretty bleak, I've been driving on the highway before in pain and thought, I could just steer into that bridge and it'll be all over, but there's people you're leaving behind and you're killing them too. try the alternatives, try EVERYTHING, then come back here and talk... we can all get through this... TOGETHER |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 9th, 2006, 2:10pm I, personally stayed up all night long in chat with a CH-er who thought the answer to their pain lie in the barrel of a gun. Am I trained in crisis managment? Hell no...but that person is alive and well today. All of us can do SOMETHING. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 9th, 2006, 2:13pm I have personally been involved with 6 attempted suicides where headaches were a least a part of the problem and ambulances were called. Just so people know, I don't believe it is a solution or I wouldn't have been involved in helping them. 5 of them made it. This 6 does not include Dave who denied it. This also does not include the guy that jumped off the parking garage at the clinic I was in. I didn't talk to him before he jumped, to make sure clusters were the "only" cause or if he had other issues, so I can't prove he meets certain criteria for some. It's also too late to ask him....it was 7 floors onto concrete. The one of the six that didn't make it....her biggest "other issue" was that she had absolutely no support system at home. Since I visited her in the hospital, I can attest to the fact that headaches and a lack of understanding and support were her main complaints. As to the "other issues" crap.....hey I have a news flash... We ALL have other issues. Does it make a difference what the other issues are? If you can't help with the cluster issue, maybe you can help with some of the others. For those of you that are "man enough" to never have thought about it, I'm happy for you. There are others that must have other issues so....fu*k 'em? OK, so they are a bunch of weak pussies....great, that should help make them feel better. For those that haven't thought about it...so don't think it should be discussed, I pray you don't get some of these other issues stacked upon your plate in the future. At least some here can say it wasn't the clusters. BB...I know you like to take polls so here's one that Clusterbusters ran...its only totaled (so far) for the first 194 people that responded but... 129 ( 65.48% ) Have considered suicide. 18 (9.14%) Have attempted suicide. Sorry, but the ones that may have been successful didn't respond. I hope that you're "let's not even discuss the possibility" works well for you. You may want to check this out. http://www1.endingsuicide.com/PageReq? For those of you that think the Nancy Reagan, "just say no" approach is best.....I hope you are at least willing to discuss it if the subject comes up with one of your children or other loved ones. This place is a lifeline for some. I have no doubt that it has saved people. Even ones that don't know it saved them. People that without it might have spent years without anyone. OTOH, it's a lifeline to others only if they don't want to discuss certain topics because it doesn't meet with the approval of some here. No one ever said that everyone with clusters thinks about suicide. Some people are stronger than others. Some people don't have as much piled upon them every day. Some people have others they can talk to about life as problems occur to help ease some of the stress. Some don't get anywhere near as bad a case of clusters as others. Some are strong enough to stick to their beliefs that it's not the right thing to do for religious reasons or other reasons. Thank god or your parents or whomever for the strength. To the 34.5% of you that have never thought about it, I hope you never do. To those that do think about it, I hope you have someone you can go to to talk about it. (you all have my open IM inbox) For those of you that want to stick your heads in the sand and deny suicide happens to people with clusters, just like it does to people without clusters, I hope you do more than refuse to discuss it if one of your family members is hurting. People talk about this being a family....do the same rules apply at home? Just say they must have other issues so you can wash your hands of it? I understand and appreciate the views by some that it shouldn't be considered as an option....I agree. How do you convey those thoughts to people you love, without talking about it? Thanks to those of you that were brave enough to talk about it...and tell your stories. To all of those we lost this year (you forgot Butch...there have been so many) R.I.P. No matter how they died, I believe that clusters ended their lives sooner than they should have. The stress and pain takes a toll on everyone, even those afraid to admit it. The dozens of medications we fill our bodies with for years upon years, takes a toll. It's time that some people here deal with their own issues and allow this subject to be discussed. Bobw |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 2:19pm Quote:
Absolutely. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 9th, 2006, 2:28pm Not opening up any more discussion but trying to give people a little bit of insite from a psych view of Suicide. I worked with the Metally ill, and also work for a crisis hot line for 5 years up in Reno. The idead that suicide is a perm solution to a temp problem is valid but you have to keep this in mind. A mentally ill person, is actually more "sane" and grounded in reality when they are suicidal. It is difficult to say the least to talk a person into staying in a live where it is not temp but a perm situation that they live in. A sane / "normal" person is not connected to reality when they are suicidal. For all perposes of dealing with a suicidal person you have to talk to them and treat them as if they are mentally ill and get them grounded. You have to find one thing that will bring them back to reality and see what they are doing is not the solution that they believe it is. Even if that only seems to be a temp thing, it is enough to get them to see things from a sane point of view. Just telling them that it is stupid does not work. You have to work around thier psychosis, no matter how temp that state of mind is. The person can honestly and truely believe that they will end up helping those around them by them leaving this life. They will have thought about it from every angle and unless you can actually talk to them thru it, there is always a way that they rationalize it within thier mind. I had one client that I worked with whose only link to this life was that he did not have someone who would take care of his goldfish when he died. It was enough to get him to stop for a day and in that time, he called back to thank me for helping him hold on. Yes Suicide is extreemly complicated, and something that is completly trivial to most epople can be the final thing that is too much for a person to handle and they disconnect from reality feeling overwhelmed. Depression is not always a part f it, even though that is fairly common. CH is not trivial, for anyone that has to face it. Either a sufferer or a supporter. While there might be some that have never thought of suicide as a way to be pain free, they might not have ever felt that overwhelming feeling that others have. That does not mean that they are better or worse then anyone else, they are fortunate that they have the mechanisms or support to allow them to never get to that point. A life line, a safe line, does not have to be a person, or this board, or anything other then something that reminds you just how much you are connected to this life. Blessed be my friends, Tia |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Racer1_NC on Oct 9th, 2006, 2:28pm Thank you Jazz, Cat, and others for some very insightful thoughts. For me, Yes, I thought about it during a particularly rough period with CH. If not for a couple of people on here talking to me about hope, and the thoughts of my children growing up with the horror of what their Dad did, I doubt very seriously I'd be typing this today. I also doubt very seriously I'd consider it now, no matter how bad my head gets. I will say that if I ever do, I'll be sure and write Don a personal note explaining exactly why I took the action. Bill |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 2:31pm Quote:
Why would I want it? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 9th, 2006, 3:11pm on 10/09/06 at 14:13:43, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Bob, Would you simply advocate that we all just go along and get along with every thread? Never voice concerns or disagreements. That no one should ever begin to formulate in their minds or share what they see as positive or negative for the community. I think the fact that someone, as positively revered as Jas is, actually got feedback, not all of it in agreement, not all of it totally supportive of her points shows the health of this community. I'm not in denial that it has occurred and will occur again. But amazingly I feel a part of this community, and as a part of this community that doesn't want to be wholly defined by the caricature that begins to sometimes emanate from our conversation of helpless, depressed, suicidal, "worst pain known to man" chest beaters, I choose to say hey, wait a minute, don't paint with a brush so widely. There is sadness. There is pain and despair. I am lucky, my experience in nowhere near as severe as many. But the message from this site is hope and courage and strength. And, yes, building bridges and finding that supporter out there who will listen to you during those times. But, we're also a community of great success and triumph sometimes. Like when someone finally gets a good O2 set-up or when someone "busts" successfully. It fills me up everytime I read a post like that. So, in the end, the community will choose what we want to grow and what fertilizer we want to use. Scott |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by deltadarlin on Oct 9th, 2006, 4:27pm on 10/09/06 at 05:37:38, Jonny wrote:
Why does suicide make you so angry, Jonny? I think when Jasmyn used *whom of us*, it was used rhetorically. I've read many responses here who talk about *reaching out to family*. What is this place? Or is it only family when it's something you understand and can deal with? Talking, talking, talking and more talking is what one does when one reaches out for help. Shutting down and trying to fight the demons does not work. I very well realize that this place isn't professional and not staffed by professionals, but it all starts with *talking*. I've moderated emotional/mental health *support* boards for the better part of 6 years now. When someone posts asking for help, we do what we can in the form of support. If it looks to become a serious matter, the person is directed to the correct resources they may need. I don't have ch, but I've battled enough demons to know f what I speak when it comes to suicide. Unless something catastrophic occurs at a certain time, it's usually not ONE thing that causes a person to even contemplate suicide. You can see evidence of a cluster headache, you can't see evidence of emotional pain (not unless that person chooses to share it with you). It's that feeling of helplessness/hopelessness that comes along with everything else that sneaks up on you and blindsides you when you're down. Cat, I could have written a post so similar to yours that it would be scary (not DOA, but my heart kept stopping). You made so many good points that I'm not even going to try and copy and respond to them. Linda, I agree with you too. As long as I have breath in my body, if someone reaches out to me, I'll move heaven and earth to try and help them. I'll end this oh so long post on one last note, I am a double survivor of suicide. I watched my mother commit suicide when I was 18 and I survived a massive overdose years later. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 4:55pm on 10/09/06 at 16:27:44, deltadarlin wrote:
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:18pm on 10/09/06 at 15:11:18, seasonalboomer wrote:
No Scott, I wouldn't. There were valid points made on all sides of the discussion. At least valid to me. I do think though, that something that 65% of the people here have contemplated, should be allowed to discuss the matter like adults without being told to "get over it" Are we only allowed to bring up small problems that are easily solved with vibes? I understand your concerns regarding "a broad paintbrush" and don't think anyone is looking for a pity party that would change the hopeful, supportive, (for the most part) tenor of the group. Part of the purpose of a support board is to give people hope and be shown that they CAN go on in life without clusters defining them. People shouldn't feel as if they will be ridiculed if they ask for help. The biggest strength of the group is the constant display of the strength of the people here. I agree with your points and respect your thoughts. Just please don't be afraid to get a little paint on ya. There shouldnt be a distinction between why people are down, who they are, or how far down they may be. Bobw |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Sandy_C on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:37pm I have to admit that I thought about suicide one time. I actually had my hand on our little Saturday Night Special - but my husband had removed the clip and I couldn't find it. Then, in one split second, while in intense pain, I looked at what I was holding in my hand, and knew that this would never, ever be an option for me again. That split second scared me more than the pain I was feeling. In that split second I realized what it would do to my husband and my daughters if I went through with it. In that split second, I realized that I will not die from CH - I will survive. Sandy |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:44pm As I said Sandy, whatever it is that makes us realize that we are a part of life, not just a victim. /huggs my friend. Tia |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 5:45pm The last I heard a 38 didnt take a clip.....I could be wrong, though....probably am.....LOL |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BarbaraD on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:02pm The sad part of this is that "most" of those comtemplating suicide don't "advertise" it. The good part about this MB is that we get to know each other pretty well and sometimes pick up on "signs" and can do something. At the first OUCH convention in Vegas, I had a man come up to me and tell me he was alive because of me. He said he had everything laid out to do the deed when he got a "kick ass" (his words) e-mail from me. He said by the time he finished reading it he was crying and laughing so hard he put his stuff back on the shelf and decided to live. Now, I don't even remember writing that e-mail and don't know how I picked up on the sign, but thank goodness I did. He's become one of my dearest friends and I'm so glad he's alive. I'm with Linda - if someone needs help - I'm there and hope if I get in that condition someone will be there for me (as a few of you have been). But the point of this thread is that we SHOULD be able to talk about suicide. Liability be damned. If someone needs help we should HELP. Most of us have been there and KNOW where they're coming from. We hurt and we're depressed. I'm about as strong a broad as you'll ever meet, but there have been times I was ready to hang it up permanently. Thank goodness someone was there for me to talk to and change my mind. Someone who understood and had been where I was. Anyhow that's my money's worth on that one... Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:12pm A guy called me up at 4 am years ago and said he was going to kill himself, I told him to please do so so he would not bother me anymore......guess what?......he fucking laughed and hung up! Did I do wrong? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:13pm on 10/09/06 at 17:45:02, Jonny wrote:
Bah Jonny you are far to litteral for your own good sometimes hun. /Huggs That just might be what they call it. No clue for sure, but if it got her thru then does it really matter? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Bob P on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:17pm I believe that suicide only leads you to the land of the 24/7 Kip 10, for eternity. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:19pm on 10/09/06 at 18:12:55, Jonny wrote:
I think if you knew the person and it was not their "norm" I believe you would have been there for them. You heart is to big to do otherwise. Of course I could be wrong too. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Mattrf on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:23pm I didn’t know Lee, I may have talked to him in a thread but I honestly don’t recall but the thought of him being gone saddens me deeply, I feel so sorry that he was unable to be strong enough to get through this and I am even more sad that we all know why and can understand the decision he made. This monster eats at our very being and no matter how strong we are the great abyss is always right next to us. We must all stay strong and endure because the pain we would inflict on those that love us is more then the pain we endure even if it is hard to remember at times. This site I think saved my life, I was able to talk to people that understood and that I could tell how low I was and they picked me up and helped me be strong and it was because I was not afraid to talk about the dark things that the monster was whispering in my ear. Be strong my friends and never be afraid to talk, silence is a great enemy. Matt |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:28pm on 10/09/06 at 18:23:43, Mattrf wrote:
Who said it had anything due to CH? Really......where did anyone say that? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by JeffB on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:32pm I don't think a .38 takes a clip. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Mattrf on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:32pm on 10/09/06 at 18:28:41, Jonny wrote:
What makes you think it wasn't, it may not have been the entire reason but how could it have not been a contributor? Jonny if you have never had dark thoughts from your pain then more power to you bro and I am very happy for you, just wish I could say the same. No matter the reason he is gone and will be missed and it is very sad. Matt |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by burnt-toast on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:33pm Not sure how this turned into an arguement regarding different perspectives on contemplating suicide. The fact is some consider it while others don't. A variety of issues may lead to self-destructive thoughts and our meds., sleep deprivation, mental/physical exhaustion and extreme recurring extreme pain have the potential to increase the chance of CH suffers having these thoughts. I would hope that if opportunity presents itself all of us would do everything possible to keep someone else from making the wrong decision. on 10/09/06 at 07:50:25, burnt-toast wrote:
Tom |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Kevin_M on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:39pm on 10/09/06 at 18:32:35, JeffB wrote:
A SNS is usually a .32, which I think does. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 9th, 2006, 6:47pm on 10/09/06 at 18:32:47, Mattrf wrote:
What makes you think it was? on 10/08/06 at 09:48:21, _Lee_ wrote:
The last good day I had i was not cosidering shit but being PF Sorry!! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Charlie on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:11pm You can get a .38 with a clip. We sold old stuff like that at the military relics place I worked. Don't ask though, I don't remember it after 38 years. Anyway. I thought of suicide but not directly related to CH. At first, of course, I thought it was some kind of horrible progressive cancer and that if it turned out to be true, suicide would be something to consider because of the nature of the pain. Hard to imagine CH as a positive diagnosis, but it was. I was diagnosed very quickly and learned enough not to consider the hits as a reason. We've had two suicides in my family, both were way around the bend when they did it; one because of syphilitic insanity, my cousin, ten years ago was just bananas. My grandfather though, likely did his family and himself a favor but he used a Winchester to do it, messy. I was only four when it happened. Everybody wonders about it but hopefully that's as far as it goes. It's so damned selfish if you have a family. Charlie |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Richr8 on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:15pm Wow! What a thread. I spent all of my free time today reading trough. Well just to weigh in, I've considerd it a few times, but only for a moment, until I rememberd what it was like at 10 years old walking in on my mother with her wrists slashed lying in a pool of blood. I would never do that to my kids. Even with 13 of the 17 (it would be fourteen, but I give my guns to the X while I'm in cycle.)risk factors. it's just not an option for me. Bless you all that have never considered suicide, and bless you more, the ones that have. This place gives me that little extra to hang tough. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by JeffB on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:31pm .32 does have a clip, a buddy had one. Never saw a .38 with a clip though. Now, how about a .50 caliber pistol...huh?....yeah?..........that focker will do some damage. One shot could sink any boat Chewy has. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by PL259 on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:41pm And I wasted my dial up time reading 5 pages. Remember the lemmings. nuff said |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by purpleydog on Oct 9th, 2006, 7:42pm on 10/09/06 at 14:13:43, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Quote:
Exactly, Bob. Quote:
Scott, maybe because you don't have it as bad as many others, you choose to deny the seriousness of this condition that the "helpless, suicidal, worst pain known to man chest beaters" know. We cannot know what it is like for someone who has it worse than us. Don't make it harder for someone to ask for help by calling them chest beaters. Most of us have been there, more than once. And once down doesn't mean a person will always be there. Things change, right? |
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Title: the bell tolls... Post by Not4Hire on Oct 9th, 2006, 8:35pm No man is an island, entire of itself every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls it tolls for thee. -- John Donne |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 9th, 2006, 8:38pm Quote:
All set there thanks. Already have that covered. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by rickyshot on Oct 9th, 2006, 8:52pm a very insightful thread. All I know personally is that when I am in cycle my behaviour definitely changes and I think the behaviour changes are a part of CH as well as the unbearable pain. After all CH is more than a bad headache. It is some type of neurological event. Now add lack of sleep and too many hits or even a bad reaction to meds or a combo of the above and you definitely could get a suicide from CH IMO. Just before I found this site I had gone through one of the worst cycles in my 22 year long history. To top it off I had a literal psychotic reaction to Topomax which made me more than think of suicide. I heard a voice telling me to throw myself out the window at work and I was in my seventh week of hell and two weeks on topomax and I was wrestling with this. I prayed out loud To God Almightly and I realized this was not me that I did not want to give in to the voice. I called my friend and she came running and she got my boss who is a doctor and knows about my headaches. They took me downstairs to my neuro and he stopped the Topomax cold. I went home for a couple days till my head was straight but I still of course was dealing with hits and feeling helpless like there was no one like me and no answers out there. Then I found this site and new hope came to me. The rest is history. Of course I still suffer ch and chronic complicated migraines from which I had a mini stroke with five days of paralysis ( how is that for depressing) And I can say now as strong as I am and feisty, if I had permanent paralysis and can't be independant I would want to die. In the throes of a high Kip ch I beg to die but don't do it. Very complicated issue. WE are all so different. And Jonny you may be stronger than most of us but even you have the breaking point. I pray God you don't ever meet it. I am glad for this site. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Redd715 on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:02pm Just about two and a half years ago, I handed my pistol over to my brother and told him to sell it. I'd had that thing ever since the man who beat me to a living pulp never showed up in court. He threatened to kill me to the police who took him in, yet his mother posted his bail, and he vanished. I had it to protect my children and myself from this idiot. The Duputy Sheriff of my county taught me how to shoot it. I'd had CH for many years before I knew what it was. The beast mutated on me, and I was finally correctly diagnosed. I stood at the presipus that one night, getting hit hard, and the words the doctor had said just kept repeating in my head. "No Cure" "No Cure" That was my straw. My life of denial was over. I could no longer convince myself that "enough" sudafed and tylenol would "finaly kick in". That the right combination of allergy meds would prevent this from happening. That spraying enough Nasacort up my nose would help. I thought about it. I seriously thought about it. I'd lost my income. Was in close proximity of loosing my apartment. I was racking up medical bills I had no way to pay. My boyfriend walked out on me bacause it couldn't be "fixed" with some pill and he said I'd changed. I was no longer the Pegg he knew and loved. I figured the kids would still "Have Dad". Hell I survived my father's suicide...they would survive mine. I was utterly alone. On so many meds my body didn't feel like my own. What good of a Mother could I be if I couldn't even function, couldn't pay my bills, couldn't put food on the table to feed my own children? It wasn't "just" CH that had me on that razors edge that night. It was everything combined. I was in a downward spiral and the only place I could see was farther down. I can tell you what went though my mind because the kindness of a few folks in the old chat room were there that night that I reached out is the reason I'm still here. I don't think they knew just then that just being there, was what made me stop my plan. If they do, thank you again. I admire anyone who has never walked that edge. But I'm not too proud to say I have. It wasn't "just" CH for me...but the culmination of numerous events, and seemingly unending pain, and the perception that there was no way to go but further down. THAT is what was on my mind. As with Jaz, cusify me as well if you must. The reality is there. Face it or not, thats your choice. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:32pm on 10/09/06 at 10:34:49, BarbaraD wrote:
Just to clarify here, doctors in general have a much higher suicide rate than the general population. The long hours, the pressure of the work, the emotional involvement with negative things like death and sickness and pain and suffering daily, the lack of time to spend with family and friends.... Google suicide rate among doctors and you will see the statistics. We have helpline and organisation within the medical prpfession to help one another too. All doctors are aware of this higher risk and we seek help when we need to, but we dont discuss it daily, no. I cant say for sure what was the cause of your friend the Doc's suicide, but I seriously doubt that it was ONLY due to CH. JMHO, Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:51pm on 10/09/06 at 11:27:06, seasonalboomer wrote:
Totally agree with you there. Two months ago, had I come to the Board in a state of fear and despair, and found people discussing unmanageable pain and suicide to be the norm of this condition, I doubt that I would have come back. Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:51pm on 10/09/06 at 21:32:23, BB wrote:
Add CH on top of all that pressure and what do you get? I think that is the whole point of this thread, everyday life is hard enough, add CH to it and it makes it just that much harder. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Sean_C on Oct 9th, 2006, 9:55pm Thoughts of suicide are just as much a part of cluster headaches as suicide is to a junky. Most make it through the crash, some don't. Its called depression, its that simple. Do clusterheads get depressed? Of course they do. What can cause depression that clusterheads can relate too that would be associated with the "S" word. - loss of family support - loss of job - loss of friendships - anxiety - divorce - alcoholism/drug abuse - finacial burdens - severe health issues - sleep deprivation - improper medication I can keep going, but the list would be too long. Feel free to add to it if you can think of some other things I failed to mention. Lee is with us in Spirit I can tell, he's all around us, he created a 5 page thread and he isn't even here ;;D I miss the bastard, and I say that with my heart folks ;) Cheers Sean........................................ |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Redd715 on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:03pm on 10/09/06 at 21:55:05, Sean_C wrote:
You don't have to believe in fate to believe in evidence of it. Thank you Sean..... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:11pm on 10/09/06 at 11:58:59, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Just to clear it here, I am NOT a CH sufferer, I am a supporter, my DH is a CH. I did commit suicide several years ago but it was due to depression, not CH. It was mental and emotional pain, not physical pain that did it . There is a VERY big step to cross psychologically to get from the normal " its bad, I want out" to actually planning the act then carrying it out. I cant speak for others, but from my own experience and my professional experience, it takes a lot more than just physical pain to actually stare death in the face and still step up to it. We all have an extremely strong survival instinct which kicks in at the last moment. Therefore to make a statement that physical pain from CH is the cause for suicide in CHers is very inaccurate in my opinion. When someone is going through a kip10 and says "I cant take it anymore, I want to die", I am pretty sure that if somehow the pain at that point can be stopped, say with a shot of pain killer, that thought will go too. Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by alienspacebabe on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:30pm on 10/09/06 at 18:12:55, Jonny wrote:
This is why people won't post how they're really feeling. Ridicule. Belittlement. Scorn. You're down. No one cares. No one has time for you. You feel ignored, unimportant. Everything is falling apart. So you reach out.... and get slapped in the face. In that frame of mind, a response like this reinforces and validates the feeling that you should leave life.... I chose this post to quote because it illustrates my point, not as an attack on any certain person. In fact, this person helped me though a rough day through IMs once. merely my opinion, Lizzie ps - GREAT post, Jazz! pss - thanks for last night, Drew. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by purpleydog on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:46pm on 10/09/06 at 22:11:01, BB wrote:
Annette, I'd like to clear up a couple things here. First of all, this VERY big step isn't like one day you are fine, and 2 hours later you decide on suicide. It's more of a progression to get to that point. As was said before, it's not JUST the pain, it's all of the issues that go along with it. See Sean's post above for a few of those. It goes on for a long time... and when things seem hopeless, and you can't possibly face another hit, along with everything else... that's when the decision is made. Lot's of people have said they wish they would die while in the throes of CH. I have too. The suicidal thoughts came AFTER. When I was no longer in pain. When I thought I could not face another one. When someone is going through a Kip 10, and they are saying they want to die, you can bet that when the pain stops, the wish will stop. However, I don't know of any painkiller that will stop a Kip 10. In fact, I haven't had ANYTHING stop a Kip 10. But that's just me. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by FramCire on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:48pm I think even Jonny has admitted that he has said "Oh God take me now". What is the difference between asking God to take you and taking yourself? In my mind not much. Maybe it is guts to do it, maybe it is will to live, maybe it is medications, life experiences, whatever... doesn't matter to me. Asking God to take your life and thinking about taking it yourself are the same thing. The difference comes when you actually do act upon it. In a perfect world everyone would have hope and people too talk them down. Yes, most people who talk about it don't actually want to do it, but some who do talk do it especially when they feel their "talk" hasn't been heard. So, can we put semantics aside and learn from Lee that we need to do the best we can to support each other and if we are worried about someone specifically, shoot them a PM or an email and see how they are doing. Just be there to listen. Even in Jonny's case, he heard the guy and showed him he was listening. If he was looking for anything other than what Jonny gave him, he was barking up the wrong tree. I credit this place for my sanity. I was ready to lose it before I came here and got support and advise. I don't think i could ever kill myself but I do suffer from depression so I understand it from personal experience, life experience, and an educational background. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by nani on Oct 9th, 2006, 10:54pm on 10/09/06 at 21:55:05, Sean_C wrote:
LOL, Sean... I thought the same thing earlier today. This one's for you, Lee... :-* Bush is an ass. ;;D |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:00pm on 10/09/06 at 22:46:01, purpleydog wrote:
Thanks Purpley, Then lets make the medical people work towards something that will help stop the pain of a Kip10. I am all for discussing suicide, if that will lead to a better understand of what we need to do to prevent it, how can we help prevent it . Maybe we can turn the discussion around and post about what would stop you from considering suicide if and when you are contemplating it? Let me start: 1- Stop the pain of kip10. 2- Thought of family and friends and the wish not to cause them more pain. 3- Able to talk to someone about it and be understood. Anyone else like to add please? Thank you very much and painfree wishes to you all. Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:03pm Quote:
Liz, with all due respect for what you're talking about here and I agree with you for the most part....The thing you're having a problem with here is what someone said to someone during a phone call. In this particular case...he was right in doing what he did. This person needed to have that wake-up call and it worked. The person laughed his a$$ off and he/she is still here today. SOME people need a kick in the ass. SOME people need a soft shoulder. SOME people need other things. Just wanted to clarify this particular point. Personally when I was contemplating it...I needed to be left alone to build up my stash. :-/ |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:05pm BB I love the way you think, go right to the root of the problem and fix it. That is something I admire. Let me start: 1- Stop the pain of kip10. 2- Thought of family and friends and the wish not to cause them more pain. 3- Able to talk to someone about it and be understood. 4. getting more people with your enthusiasm on our side. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by jon019 on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:14pm WOW, what a thread. I originally thought to just ride it out and wait for something more positive. Then I figured what can be more positive than discussing a forbidden subject. I see BOTH sides (and several oblique angles) to everything said. Flip and flop back and forth. BUT, dammit, it CANNOT hurt to talk about suicide. CH or not, it is real and should be addressed. Thank you everybody for your contributions, whatever your point of view What Lee did pisses me off. I hate it, I mourn for him and his family and pray for his soul. No one can know what truly is in a persons heart. Have I contemplated taking my own life? Oh yeah. usually driving down the road and thinking just one jerk of the wheel and this is all over. It can seem so easy at the time. In cycle or out, the thought has crossed my mind. The pain it would cause to my family and religious beliefs have always stopped me, that and taking my hands off the wheel for just a second to TRULY realize the permanent consequences. Life is so precious and short that I can't imagine squandering God's gift right now. Just today I have been a nervous wreck as my brother underwent open heart surgery to replace a valve and aortic stem. (He's OK as I write this but not out of the woods yet). So, I want to live, I want you all to live, and fight, and overcome this nightmare we call CH, and I don't want to read about another Lee. There IS a family here, a hurt to one is a hurt to all. Be well, and fight nice, please! Regards Jon |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:17pm Thanks Matt :-* Here we go What will help prevent suicide associated with CH; 1- Stop the pain of kip10. 2- Thought of family and friends and the wish not to cause them more pain. 3- Able to talk to someone about it and be understood. 4. getting more people with positive enthusiasm on our side. 5- A better understanding of how CH works/progresses 6- A better understanding of what medications/treatments are available Please continue to add, thanks :) Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by purpleydog on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:19pm on 10/09/06 at 21:51:46, maffumatt wrote:
Annette, this is the point of this thread. I'm not sure why, but you seem insistent that this discussion will cause someone to take their life. That's not what it is about at all. It is about the pressure sufferers face when they get CH, and what we, as sufferers, will do to stop it... the pain, AND everything that goes along with it. The feelings of hopelessness. And how we deal with it. I don't expect you to understand this as a supporter. Why not read and learn? Please, stop trying to save me. I don't need to be saved. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:24pm on 10/09/06 at 23:19:24, purpleydog wrote:
I rest my case. I am out of this thread. And people ask why doctors dont care ? Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Sean_C on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:31pm on 10/09/06 at 22:54:44, nani wrote:
Open those gates in Mexico and let all those beautiful people in here, thats what I say ;;D ;;D ;;D He would've went crazy and loved every minute of it ;;D I will miss him, WE will miss him ;;D I hope he's at peace, I really do :) I love you Nani, thanks for the smile ;;D ;;D Sean................................... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:54pm Quote:
I almost ALWAYS stay our of things like this. But I have to say this Chris. Your whole post to Annette was totally out of line and I, for one am embarrassed by what you said to her. I, too am outta here. :'( |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Ree on Oct 9th, 2006, 11:59pm MY opinion... I think and know from experience that suicide is a selfish act. If you commit suicide I will hate you. I will feel sorry for your family because you will forever leave them with the idea that it was there fault. I know this from experience first hand. My daughters beautiful little friend has lost her sparkle since her father killed himself 3 years ago... She has also been in therapy since as well as her mother and brother. Sometimes suicide causes a chain reaction in some families and several people in that family will also take their lives. I also know that usually when people threaten to take their lives they are crying for help. People that intend to commit suicide... usually keep it to themselves and succeed, which causes shock. My cousin, and my daughters friends dad never told anyone just did it and succeeded. Suicide sucks... if you commit suicide I won't forgive you. If you want to commit suicide get help. I hate this topic. Go ahead and flame me..... ree |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by purpleydog on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:25am Sorry you feel that way, Linda. on 10/09/06 at 07:14:34, BB wrote:
I don't recall anyone in this thread contemplating suicide. The discussion is about what we go through as CH'ers. My life doesn't need to be saved, and I suppose I could be wrong, but as this is purely discussion, I don't recall anyone else posting that they were on the brink right now. I don't see where the need to save lives comes in here on this thread. Including mine. I didn't post that I am contemplating suicide. Supporters are great to have, I wish everyone had one. But to understand what a CH'er goes through, you must be one. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BikerBob on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:49am on 10/09/06 at 22:11:01, BB wrote:
You did? Hmmm... on 10/09/06 at 23:17:22, BB wrote:
7- Eat some mushrooms. BB |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 10th, 2006, 2:48am on 10/09/06 at 23:17:22, BB wrote:
7. Support and empathy for the person who feels suicidal - not pity, not "tough love" (although sometimes this truly is needed), but an ear and maybe a shoulder to truly listen and validate that person's existence and the reasons they feel so down 8. Not ever telling someone who admits they feel suicidal that they're not tough enough or they should just get over it or pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and on and on and on... 9. Allowing that person to discuss more than just the obvious about CH - if a person needs to vent about other things they are going through, be it public or private, they need to be allowed to do this in some way....sometimes just getting it off your chest is a huge help 10. Reaffirmation that they are not alone - no matter what 11. Someone to check in on them from time to time just to see how they are doing, and not just to say "how are you" but really only want to hear "fine" - be really sincere when asking someone in trouble how they are - even if you may not really want to hear the whole story, just maybe try to be genuine on this one! 12. Not to be told to look at all those other people who have it worse, so they shouldn't complain, etc. Yes it is very important to realize that some people do have it worse, but it shouldn't be brought up in a way that means the person doesn't have the right to feel bad and should actually apologize for feeling badly while other people are going through worse things... I'm sure I could go on, or word these a bit better, but they come to mind as things that might have helped me through some of the tougher times... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 10th, 2006, 2:59am A few more points... There is definitely a difference between active and passive suicidal thoughts. We seem to be discussing and focusing mainly on active suicidal thoughts and behaviours, which is what most people think of when the topic of suicide arises. However, passive suicidal thoughts are very important as well and also need attention and intervention, albeit possibly in a different way. Passive suicidal thoughts occur when a person does not actively want to take their own life, but they have thoughts or say things like, "I wish God would strike me dead"; "I don't want to take my own life, but I would be okay if my house blew up with me in it, " and a variety of things along these lines. I don't know what the literature says with respect to passive suicidal thoughts turning into active suicidal thoughts, but that's kinda how I used to be when I was younger. I would say the latter of those 2 statements all the time in my senior year of high school. I was not about to slit my own wrists, but I constantly wished that something bad would inadvertantly happen that would "take me out." Also, I think the reason there is concern about discussing suicide is sometimes because when a person commits suicide, extra attention, focus, etc on that person (not their life, but on the suicide itself) can be sort of an instigator for other people who are on the edge. They see the love and support offered for the person who has committed suicide and then imagine how that would be if they followed the same path. However, on the whole, it is best to get the topic out there - out in the open. It has been written in the "literature" that talking about suicide does not cause a person to commit suicide. Often talking about suicide allows that person to voice how they are truly feeling instead of bottling it up all inside. It makes it okay for that person to talk with someone else listening who is in the position to get that person some help. In years past, I would never ever mention my own suicidal thoughts. I never told my first therapist who I saw for a year....nor did I ever tell anyone else except for one or two close friends. However, with my current psychiatrist, I was able to bring it up, and even though I still have fears about talking to him about it, he has made it acceptable for me to talk about and not worry about being committed or any other thing like that. After the July thing, I wouldn't tell him what my plan was....but later once I did, he said that talking about it can help us both understand why I chose that method, what it meant, and what I thought would be the reaction of others, etc... He also said that while we may not always see eye to eye on certain things, I just need to know that he is always working in my best interest and will always work with me and discuss everything with me. That was truly helpful and really lead to me being able to move past that incident in July and cope with suicidal feelings a bit better when they arise.... Just thought I'd add a few more thoughts... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by unsolved1 on Oct 10th, 2006, 3:34am some dude left here not too long ago saying that he was going to kill himself. I was mad at him at the time and didn't really care what he was saying. I told him to leave and do whatever he wanted to do. He hung himself in his garage that night. I may have saved him (at least for awhile) for $500 he was wanting to borrow. Instead, I was mad and told him no and to leave !! Goes to show: You never know what ppl might do UNsolved |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LeLimey on Oct 10th, 2006, 5:47am on 10/09/06 at 23:19:24, purpleydog wrote:
I've seen some rude shit posted in my time but this takes the biscuit. Annette and every other supporter we have here. I NEED YOU! I'm not ashamed to admit I draw from your strengths. Without support a hell of a lot more of us wouldn't be here. I'm a supporter as well as a sufferer and I need more support when I'm dealing with Jasper than I ever do for me. I can "cope" with my pain. I can't cope with his and all the feelings it brings. Does that mean I'm saying that in my personal opinion its harder to be a supporter? DAMN RIGHT I AM. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 10th, 2006, 6:10am Quote:
Rude? I think disgusting is a better description. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LadyElaine1 on Oct 10th, 2006, 7:29am This whole tread sucks. We have taken up more than 8 pages on a man that went against mans law as well as Gods. Trying to make him a hero. There is no dignity in putting a gun to your head. I am sorry Lee is dead but I won't make him a hero. That is just what is happening here. I agree with Jonny and Bob. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BarbaraD on Oct 10th, 2006, 7:31am Annette don't you dare go away. On this subject or any other we NEED everyone's opinions. And after all, you ARE our resident doc, so we need to see things from your point of view. We're all in shock over Lee's untimely death and we're just having thoughts of when "we" thought about it. We're here to support each other NOT to get angry. We can disagree, but no need to flame anyone. Mother has spoken! Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 10th, 2006, 8:01am [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 10th, 2006, 8:16am on 10/10/06 at 07:31:07, BarbaraD wrote:
Yes Mum , I am here , I am not going anywhere :) A bit of flame can be good, it helps to toughen the determination. Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by deltadarlin on Oct 10th, 2006, 9:12am on 10/10/06 at 07:29:48, LadyElaine1 wrote:
I don't think anyone here was trying to make him a hero. If trying to understand *why* something like this happened is wrong and possibly discuss how people might be able to help someone else in the future, better damn me to hell now. As to it being against *God's* law, I think that should be left up to Lee and his maker. A minister explained it to me this way, "when a person commits suicide, they are obviously not in their *right* mind, therefore God won't judge them for their actions and they will be allowed to enter the gates of heaven. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by The mad viking on Oct 10th, 2006, 9:20am With all due respect friends mixing religion in this thread is pushing it way out of track I dont care by what name you call your god,because we all are seeking something better but what i do care about is that we all can sit at the same table sharing a cup of coffe or whatever is apropriate at the moment Svenn |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 10th, 2006, 9:24am overall this has been one heck of a conversation. wouldn't mind if we stay away from debating god's judgement however. there's no middle ground in such a debate and it actually has been a great sharing of thoughts. scott |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 10th, 2006, 9:34am Agreed with Svenn and Scott here... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Bob P on Oct 10th, 2006, 9:46am I think Elaine is simply stating the Christian belief. When you commit suicide, your last act is the act of murder. You can't repent of it because you are dead. You are damned to that 24/7 Kip 10 for eternity. If you think suicide will stop your pain and suffering and solve your problems, better think again. Suicide doesn't solve anything, it makes it worse. Interesting, first time I've heard that the Lord accepts the plea of temporary insanity. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 10th, 2006, 10:04am on 10/10/06 at 09:46:55, Bob P wrote:
okay then, and I'm just stating mine then. [smiley=argue.gif] [smiley=argue.gif] |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Margi on Oct 10th, 2006, 10:24am on 10/10/06 at 00:25:08, purpleydog wrote:
>:( Bullshit, Chris. You need to apologize to Annette and supporters everywhere for this attitude. Or try it from our side of the fence sometime and THEN tell me we don't understand what you go through. Linda's embarassed with what you said. Me, I'm just plain disgusted. You want to take this off the board? Bring it on. >:( |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Mattrf on Oct 10th, 2006, 10:51am on 10/10/06 at 10:24:13, Margi wrote:
A supporter may not know what the actual pain feels like that is in our heads but we also have no idea of what the pain they feel is like when they see a loved one at a kip 10. Pain can be physical or mental but no matter witch it is, it is still pain, I have watched my wife go through very bad mental pain and cry for days and I had to sit there and watch with nothing to do to make it better, and it hurt me to watch and would have rather had my own pain to deal with then watch her in hers. None of us should ever disrespect a supporter, they put up with us and at the same time have to survive there own type of CH hell and god bless them for sticking with us, without them we would be lost, or at least I would be. Matt |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by FramCire on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:10am on 10/10/06 at 09:46:55, Bob P wrote:
Sorry to do this, but as a Christian I have to disagree. God says in the Bible that no man may tear apart what God has brought together. There are also many scriuptures that say that once saved, always saved. So, if that is true and you were with God, how exactly does ANY SIN regardless of the timing separate you from him? To say a person who commits suicide is damned to hell is speculation at best. Also, is it possible that before he/she actually died, he repented anyway? Possible. You don't know for sure. Also, where in the Bible does it say you must ask forgiveness for each and every sin. Does not God know your heart? Don't we all sin? If you are correct, you better hope you don't die suddenly with unforgiven sin in your life. Now, I will continue this facet of the topic on PM with anyone. I don't think we want to hijack the thread with religious debate. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:12am on 10/10/06 at 09:46:55, Bob P wrote:
There are religious ideas of what suicide is. Well from a Wiccan (personal) belief, it is a choice to leave this life. There are lessons that Lee needed to learn in this life. If he has not learned that, then he will be forced to deal with it in the next. Yes what he did caused pain to those around him. And there are many things that they will deal with. But it is not up to us to look at it and decide that this was not meant to happen so that the peope that where left in this life where not being faced with the lesson that thye needed to learn. No one is trying to hero'ise him, and in the same respect no ont is staying that thy undetans why he did it. We do not know that overwhelned him to the point that he felt this was the best way for him to deal with it. Blessed Be |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by karma on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:25am Quote:
and why not? It seems a natural, From philosophical thought about death to mans philosophies on a theory of an afterlife. Its all about personal beliefs so there can be no right or wrong just differing views. Its how you handle a different viewpoint that gives insight into just how comfortable you are with your own beliefs and philosphies. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jackie on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:28am on 10/09/06 at 23:19:24, purpleydog wrote:
OUCH....no pun intended! Just one quick word to you supporters....especially the newer ones. Please, don't let a comment like this discourage you. Keep right on supporting the best you can....advocate for them, educate youself to become as effective as possible, etc...but most of all keep loving them and encouraging them....never let them give up. That's all... Jackie Oh...I was just thinking....Lee would probably love this...he always enjoyed a big old 'knock down/drag out'... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by FramCire on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:31am on 10/10/06 at 11:25:54, karma wrote:
I dont think we need people debating theology in THIS thread. I am more than happy to do it in another thread or via PM, but not here. I just don't like hijacking a thread, that's all. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Margi on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:36am on 10/10/06 at 11:28:45, Jackie wrote:
you're damn right, Jacks. Lee would have gotten a big charge out of this. I'm sorry, I have to do this: Lee, if you're listening, I'm still pretty angry at you, buddy, for doing what you did to yourself, to your family and...to all of us. However, it was my honour to have known you here. I hope you're in a better place now. Thank you for always being my friend, I don't ever remember you and I squaring off. We may not have always agreed with each other, but I always respected you and felt that coming back. You brought a lot of colour to this place and your style will be missed around here. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Bob P on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:38am Exodus 20:13 - Thou shalt not kill. I don't believe that we get to say please God, forgive me for all the sins I commit in the future and then go on sinning for the rest of our lives. True repentance requires a heartfelt effort to change the sinful ways. The Bible is pretty silent on the topic of suicide. Could be God doesn't want to burden the loved ones with the idea that the person went to hell. He also doesn't say it's ok, probably doesn't want everyone thinking that as long as they're good with God they can off themselves. After all, when we become Christians, we give ourselfs to God. We become His. If we kill ourself we are destroying something that belongs to God. I don't suppose that makes Him very happy. This thread is about suicide and how to help prevent it. If we all became Christians and followed Gods will, there would be no suicide. Just offering this up as a possible means of prevention. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by FramCire on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:19pm on 10/10/06 at 11:38:10, Bob P wrote:
Heartfelt effort does not mean you become sinless. Why exactly is this sin worse than any sin you commit? Again, you are not sinless because you are a Christian. What happens if you die while thinking a lustful thought? Since you didn't have time to repent, where are you heading? on 10/10/06 at 11:38:10, Bob P wrote:
The day you accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you said exactly that. You told him you wanted his forgiveness for the sin (past, present and future) in your life. And yes, you still go on sinning. Hopefully you TRY to stop sinning but you will fail. on 10/10/06 at 11:38:10, Bob P wrote:
Actually, it is not. Suiicide is a sin according to the Bible. You already quoted 1 scripture. However, as I ahve said a million times, WE ALL SIN. If you honestly think the reason a person is in hell is because of not having to time to ask forgiveness, you had better being every SECOND of your life. on 10/10/06 at 11:38:10, Bob P wrote:
Becoming a Christian doesn't stop people from breaking God's will. Christians severely depressed and in pain are probably just as likely to turn to suicide as anyone else. Sad but true. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by nani on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:19pm on 10/10/06 at 10:24:13, Margi wrote:
I've always said I'd much rather be the sufferer than the supporter. Thanks, supporters...for all you do. :-* |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 10th, 2006, 12:36pm on 10/10/06 at 12:19:33, nani wrote:
Ditto, you don't know how much a supporter means to you until they stop supporting. Thank you guys. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jimi on Oct 10th, 2006, 1:01pm Quote:
Yes Jacks, Lee probably would. But having read a lot of this crap some have wrote, I bet his wife or family finds it very upsetting. The callousness of some of these posts sickens me as well. The care for others feelings just seems missing anymore. >:( |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Margi on Oct 10th, 2006, 1:06pm I agree, Jimi - I think out of respect to the family, this thread should end here and now. I apologize for my part in it and would ask that Chris' appalling comment be addressed in another thread. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jackie on Oct 10th, 2006, 1:11pm on 10/10/06 at 13:01:21, Jimi wrote:
Totally agree with you, Jimi....... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Mattrf on Oct 10th, 2006, 1:17pm I agree let it end. Matt |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 10th, 2006, 1:19pm Quote:
or not at all. >:( |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Margi on Oct 10th, 2006, 1:29pm Respectfully, Linda - I don't think it's fair that Chris is allowed to get away with that. What she said is unforgivable. However, as Jimi says, this is not the place for that discussion. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Bob P on Oct 10th, 2006, 2:10pm I think this thread is "CH and Suicide". It's not a condolence to someone's family thread. I don't want to see PC stop a good honest discussion of suicide and possible ways to deal with it. I think this thread should continue however it should not be aimed at or reference any single person. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by pattik on Oct 10th, 2006, 2:29pm on 10/10/06 at 13:17:02, Mattrf wrote:
Ditto |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BlueMeanie on Oct 10th, 2006, 2:35pm This thread is worse than a Michael Jackson media circus. :( Does anyone remember that Lee had several OTHER medical conditions. Looks like people are trying sooo hard to qualify "suicide headache" to their illness. Putting stickys on top for suicide hotlines and telling peeps that it's o.k. to have thoughts like that and we all do. Sorry, but I don't. Sure, during a KIP 10 you pray to end it, that doesn't mean your going to. You can ask GOD for forgiveness and it last forever. All I can say about that is WOW. Emotions are running high right now and speaking for Chris, I don't think she meant to sound like supporters don't have a clue. I'm sure she knows they are very important people in Clusterheads lives. RIP Lee |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 10th, 2006, 2:52pm on 10/10/06 at 14:10:03, Bob P wrote:
I dont believe that i have evern fully agreed with Bob but he is correct. This thread was strted and has allowed everyone to discuss a topic that for many is taboo. This thread allows for someone who is not willing to discuss suicide to look at if from different view points and ways to get help. Either within or without. To be very honest it is the people who are not willing to or cant discuss it who are the one who are more likely to act on it. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 10th, 2006, 3:01pm on 10/10/06 at 14:35:35, BlueMeanie wrote:
Blue No one on this thread has said that CH was the only thing that brought Lee or anyone else for that matter to this point. People have infered that that is what people are saying. And some have stated that there have been a few cases where CH seemed to play a major role. All people have stated is that it seems that CH was at least one factor is this situation as we where not in Lee's head at the moment he made this choice. I think what everyone needs to remember is that you can not use generalizations when it comes to this topic. It is very personal for each and every person and whatever it is that tips the scales for one person will not effect another. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by thomas on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:03pm on 10/10/06 at 15:01:32, Tiannia wrote:
Very profound, especially given the propensity for members of this community to jump down some one's throat for generalizeing CH. But given the oppurtunity, we are all guilty of doing the same to circumstances, conditions, and/or problems that we, ourselves do not have a first hand perspective on. I am amazed at the irony I witness here daily. Edit to add ; irony just sounded a little friendlier than idiocy and or hypocracy. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:10pm on 10/10/06 at 16:03:55, thomas wrote:
well thanks for summary dismissal of the previous 8 pages, i can go home now, there is no more to add to this one...obviously. >:( |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LadyElaine1 on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:14pm Today my daughters boy friend that lives with her, Greg Myers took a gun and shot and killed himself with her and her 5 year old baby in the house. Would you like to hear my daughter screaming and the baby screaming on my phone recorder. There is no right in it all! SO EVERYONE FIND A RIGHT IN IT ALL FOR ME ! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by deltadarlin on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:16pm For anyone who needs support through emotional/mental problems, please pm me and I'll send you the link to a support board that happens to run the gamut of problems with all age groups and everything in between. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by brewcrew on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:16pm on 10/10/06 at 16:03:55, thomas wrote:
"Irony" is a good word - very diplomatic. ;) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:18pm I'm very happy to read that so many people have never had any suicidal thoughts. However, for the sake of those that have, I think this thread is an important place to be able to be open about it. I don't believe this thread is saying that CH = suicide headache in that every single person thinks about suicide. However, for some people in some circumstances, suicide is an issue - and while CH is usually not the ONLY reason, it does seem to play some part for many. What I don't think is right is for people who do not have suicidal thoughts to say that this thread should just end because they don't want to read or hear about it. Nobody here is saying that every person with CH has suicidal thoughts or that we should advertise CH as suicide headache. (However, I must point out that it did get that name somewhere along the line - I'd be interested to know who coined that term and the history behind it...) And I see what Jimi is saying - there are some things being said that seem rather heartless. I think this is an issue that needs to be handled with compassion. And I think it is proper to post links to crisis hotlines, etc because you might just save somebody's life that way. No, it's not everybody's problem, but it is a problem for many here, and if someone showed up who had been thinking about suicide but wouldn't have spoken up about it, if they see resources, etc - then maybe, just maybe, they will feel comfortable to discuss those feelings and get help. Even though people don't want to be painted with the term suicide headache, the fact is that this term is often connected to CH - not only by sufferers but also by physicians...I've heard it said many times in a variety of medical settings. You can't just off-hand refer to it as suicide headache and then ask to completely stop all discussion of suicide. I know not everyone refers to it as suicide headache, but honestly it's even in the textbooks and articles...and I'll say again that it had to get that name from somewhere! I also want to say thank you for all the supporters out there. What's interesting is that I meet my own supporters when I go to visit other CH'ers. For instance, when in England, Helen was a huge supporter for me. She may not be living in the same place as I am, but I know she's someone I can call and can turn to....and she's also a sufferer and supporter to Jasper, but a huge support to me and others as well. I felt like a supporter when watching Matt get hit and also Helen's nextdoor neighbor Michelle. It was damn hard....harder than getting hit myself by far. When Matt got hit, I wanted to cry. I knew how he was feeling but there was nothing I could do in my power to stop it. And it's not just because I have CH that I felt that way. On the train when that happened, there were people who had no clue what clusters were, but they were obviously bothered by the pain that Matt was in, and they wanted to be able to do something. So I give a HUGE amount of credit to supporters. And this is true in any illness, disease, or condition - the sufferer goes through a tremendous amount, but the loved ones caring for them also go through a great deal, too - and their role and pain is often unaddressed by the medical community. We do have a name for it when referring to caregiver stress, but that's typically applied to people who take care of terminally ill loved ones or their aging relatives, etc. Anyhow - sorry to ramble on and on...just had more to say! Carrie |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by thomas on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:18pm on 10/10/06 at 16:10:42, seasonalboomer wrote:
I guess you failed to notice the "we" in my post. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by georgej on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:26pm on 10/10/06 at 16:14:53, LadyElaine1 wrote:
What?!!!! Oh, Elaine..... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:29pm Oh My God, Elaine. I'm so sorry to hear this. There just are no words that will help to make sense of it. Sending prayers your way. Carol |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:33pm on 10/10/06 at 16:14:53, LadyElaine1 wrote:
Elaine, I'm so very sorry........ I wish I could be there to give you a hug right now!! This is exactly the damage to those left behind that we are talking about....he may have been in pain, but now look how much pain you all are in. I hate it...... If there's anything I can do, please let me know. Much love and hugs, Carrie |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:37pm :-[ I am so sorry Elaine. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Charlie on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:49pm Yikes, Elaine; Is this on the level? What a horror story. :'( Charlie |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Margi on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:52pm Oh Elaine....was this Heather's boyfriend? I am so sorry. I'm here however you need me to be. Prayers with your family as always. :'( Margi |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Charlie on Oct 10th, 2006, 4:57pm I have to say that all in all, this hasn't been an unhealthy thread. We managed even to keep on an even keel when it threatened to go off into theology. What a response, too! Not a bad way to handle something like this. I'm glad I checked in again. It won't last forever. Neat to find an area to unload where politics doesn't get in the way. Charlie |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by DonnaHar on Oct 10th, 2006, 5:04pm Elaine....I've heard the same screams. I am so sorry for you and your family. Call me when you are ready to talk about it if you'd like. Love you........ Donna |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by deltadarlin on Oct 10th, 2006, 5:07pm Shhh Charlie, don't break the streak ;). Elaine, I'm so very sorry and I can imagine what your daughter is going through right now. Pm'ing you with my cellphone number and either one of you can call me and I'll do what I can to help. Been there, done that, burned the t-shirt. Carolyn~aka~'darlin |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Bob P on Oct 10th, 2006, 5:27pm Hey Fram, To answer your IM: Quote:
From the above verses, the first thing we see is that we must confess our sins. We must recognize where we have erred, and hurt God by our actions. When confessing your sins to God, be as specific as you can. General confessions do very little to convict of sin, or to convince God of your seriousness, or to bring healing in those areas. Quote:
Our next step in receiving forgiveness, is to turn from our wicked ways and change them. We may struggle with a certain sin, but if our intent is truly to change our ways and overcome that sin, God will give us the grace to do it. Many want to receive forgiveness from God without changing their ways. God knows the difference between those who are sincere and those who are using Him to temporarily ease their conscience. He is not mocked or deceived. If one comes to him in sorrow, humility and sincerity, His grace is abundant. However, He has little patience for those who would abuse His mercy. Quote:
I guess you die with a smile on your face! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Peppermint on Oct 10th, 2006, 5:30pm regarding Elaine's post: yes its on the level. :( No, not Heather btw. Pep |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jimi on Oct 10th, 2006, 5:35pm Elaine.......I am so sorry that your family is going through this. Suicide destroys so many lives. :( |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LadyElaine1 on Oct 10th, 2006, 5:44pm I am sorry if I come across cold, but I do thank everyone for there well wishes and prayers. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Opus on Oct 10th, 2006, 6:27pm on 10/10/06 at 06:10:00, chewy wrote:
What I think that is rude and disgusting is someone who constantly quotes people in a way that no one knows who said it and the context is lost. That is my opinion. I my country ( The United States of America ) free speech was upheld as a basic right to all people ( it is sad that free speech is becoming less and less free). Free speech doesn't mean you have the right to lie, but that you had the right to express your opinions. Quote:
You can't be wrong in an opinion, you can only be wrong if you act on an opinion that is morally wrong. For members here that don't live in a country with free speech, you have to realize that Americans tend to say what they think even if others don't feel the same because it is their opinion and they have the right to say it. With that in mind, I still would never give my views on what happened because everyone would consider me a monster and no one would hear what I had to say. Paul |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by purpleydog on Oct 10th, 2006, 6:47pm on 10/10/06 at 10:24:13, Margi wrote:
What attitude is that? Try what from your side of the fence, Margi? Being a supporter? For your information, I AM a supporter, as well as a CH'er. You know what the difference is? Let me ask you a question. Have you EVER had a clusterheadache? No? I didn't think so. Let me explain the difference here, so I can put my previous post back in context. Every post I have made on this thread has been from a CH'ers point of view. The CH'ers on this board understand what I am saying. They may not agree with it, but they understand. The supporters on this board can't understand what I am saying, how can they? (I am talking about our supporters who don't get CH, such as yourself.) They don't get clusterheadaches. They can see what it does to their loved one, by the reaction of the loved one. But they do not feel the pain. I feel the pain, just as much as any other CH'er on this board. When my clusterbuddy is getting hit, it hurts me WORSE than ANYTHING I know. Not because I'm watching their reaction, but because I KNOW the pain. I've BEEN THERE MANY TIMES. And I KNOW what they are feeling. The despair, the panic, the frustration, the goddamn exhaustion. THE PAIN. I KNOW how hard it is to be a supporter, Margi, because I am one too. Don't you DARE tell me *I* don't know what it's like to be a supporter. And take this off board? What is that, a threat???? I think I'll stop right here. Before I say something I'll regret. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 10th, 2006, 8:22pm Quote:
I think you already did. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 10th, 2006, 8:54pm Eliane I am extreemly sorry for you and your loss. There are not words to make it have sense meaning or purpose. :'( Love and Light. Tia :'( |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Carl_D on Oct 10th, 2006, 9:56pm Quote:
I thank God you all are safe, and will keep your whole family in prayer. Carl |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Kirk on Oct 11th, 2006, 12:20am on 10/10/06 at 10:24:13, Margi wrote:
Margi: You once again prove that you are not only pompous. But full of crap. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by jon019 on Oct 11th, 2006, 4:12am OK everybody, time out, please. Three deep breaths... I realize I don't have standing here, but I hate his shit. Family can fight, that's not what bothers me, it's the personal attacks that have no place here. Disagree, argue, support your view (passionately if you believe them) but please, cut out these damn frontal assaults. I have no supporter other than you folks here (and man, is that a blessing). I have chosen (for better or worse, my choice, my problem) not to involve my family/friends/aquaintances in this battle with the beast. In the 25 years he/she/it had plauged me, NO ONE has seen a bad hit. It is bad enough to go through it without scaring the bejabbers out of a loved one (it is scary enough on your own). That is until a trip to my brother's mountain cabin. The beast came, I had no where to run and hide so my brother, sister-in-law and their sweet dog Holly HAD to witness multiple, day after day kip 7-8-9 hits (no o2, no meds, no nothing, hey, I was out of cycle,YEAH RIGHT). My brother left the scene (and you all know it is one). No shame, I had told him there is nothing you can do but GET OUT (he is most practical and understanding of realities) . My sister-in-law cried in the other room, Holly whimpered in the corner (God bless her, every time it was over she would come and check me out to see if I was OK, doG-God (the Lord works in mysterious ways, 4 legs, fur, a long tongue and faithfulness are one of his best works). Anyway, I guess that my point is that the pain of a supporter, or even witness aint much different than what we go through (argue if you wish, but mental anguish for a loved one is an indescribable pain.) Within the last 2 years I was personal, direct witness to the deaths of my Mom and Step-dad to cancer with ALL the accompanying anguish and pain. Oh dear, am being hit right now and fear have lost my point. I guess what I'm trying to say is that supporter or clusterhhead, we are all in this together, as Gator said, "we are are all we have". I can't finish this... Love Jon |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by ShadowLord on Oct 11th, 2006, 10:06am Okay... Time for my viewpoint... I'm choosing to avoid the theology discussion and the supporter discussion, although they both will likely be touched on at least in part. I'm gonna go back to the topic of the thread and discuss suicide. As many of you either know, or have guessed, either from talking to me personally, or from reading my writings... I am a sucidal individual. No... I am not talking about "I have a cluster, so I'm gonna off myself!" I'm talking about, suicidal thoughts being a fairly normal thought pattern in my everyday life. Yes... I have attempted suicide a fair few times, but obviously didn't do a very good job, because I am still around to aggravate you with this post. Yes... There was normally a trigger event that caused me to seriously consider and/or attempt to kill myself in each circumstance, and two times the trigger was CH. It's easy to tell ppl that they shouldn't kill themselves because it's selfish... Look at all the ppl who love you who will be hurt by your selfish act. It's easy to tell ppl that it's against the gods will to terminate your own life. It's easy to say that it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. What isn't easy is looking at life from the viewpoint of the truly suicidal. Am I truly suicidal? Now? No... I'm not, and I haven't been in quite some time. Then? Yes... At the times of my attempts, I was serious to just get it over and done with. Three times were carefully thought out plans. If I had been older, and had more knowledge about offing myself at the time, I would've likely have succeeded... Luckily I was too young and stupid to do it correctly. The other two times, both CH related, I grabbed whatever bottle of pills I could find and started chewing. Luckily, at the time, I failed to notice that the pills on one occasion were ibuprofen, and the second occasion was acetaminophen... The CH must've had me half blinded and I just grabbed the biggest bottle of pills I could find at the time. Now that y'all know I'm not only weak, but also too lame to kill myself right... I'll try to describe my view of life at the time of my attempts in post #2... PFDAN................................................... ShadowLrd |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by ShadowLord on Oct 11th, 2006, 10:06am Did I think about my parents and any other loved ones before trying such a selfish act? Yes I did. And in my state of mind, I had rationalized that they would understand, and would be much better off in the long run. Even during my last two attempts, I was telling myself it was for the best for everyone if I was just dead. Did I care how selfish I was being? I didn't see it as being selfish, but as actually helping everyone else. The only way I can describe it is that when you are truly suicidal, your thoughts aren't exactly rational, but they sure do seem like it at the time. Did I care if it was against the gods will? I never even thought about it. The christian god (I was a christian at the time of my first three attempts, so I was more than aware of the eternal damnation thing and everything else) gave me this situation, but I had to deal with it on my own. If it was a test... Screw it... I failed. I didn't care. It was the very last thing on my mind. Maybe it was because I wasn't a strong christian, or maybe I truly felt that the christian god had turned it's back on me, but either way... It didn't matter enough to even register at the time. Did I consider that it was a permanent solution to a temporary problem? How long do you have to live with something before it stops being a temporary problem? I've had headaches in one form or another my entire life from what my parents tell me... At the very least as long as I can remember. I've been suicidal for probably as long. I've had depression, pain, troubles, heartache, etc... When do all these problems stop being temporary, especially to someone that it's all they know? Did I care that I was being weak? No... Because from my stand point, I was already weak. I was too weak to be able to handle being depressed... I was too weak to handle a headache... I was just too weak to begin with. So why should it matter that I'm chickening out and taking the easy way? Am I crazy? I know a lot of ppl have a lot of opinions about that, but I'll focus on my suicide attempts... Lets just say I wasn't in my right mind. The time I chewed the pills... I don't remember doing it. I do remember the bottles were full before that day, and nearly empty the next day, but I didn't then, and still don't now, remember actually taking the pills. The last thoughts I could remember from those nights is thinking that anything is better than the pain. I'm not going to speak for other CHers, but speaking for myself... When I'm in the grip of an especially bad hit... Call it a Kip10 if ya must... I don't even know for sure if I do think. I know many, and probably most, don't blackout during hits, but I have. The pain has been so bad on occasion that I literally can't see, and my only thought is, "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..." I've woken up with cuts and bruises... My hands bleeding from my fingernails digging into the palm... Various items broken either from tripping over them while pacing, or throwing them across the room... But most of the time, I can't remember actually doing any of that. Crazy? During those times... Yes... More than likely I was. Okay... That's it... Too damn long of a post for me, and I actually tried to shorten it as much as I could. Prolly don't make a damn lick of sense now, but oh well... It's more than most ppl know about my suicidal past. You all may now return to your flame wars. PFDAN.................................................... ShadowLrd |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Margi on Oct 11th, 2006, 10:15am well, Chewy beat me to the exact response I would have made and to Kirk...all I can do is shake my head. :-/ Out of respect for Elaine, my responses end here. edited to add: Kenn, awesome post. I, for one, am glad that you weren't successful in your attempts. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 11th, 2006, 10:17am Thank you Shadow, you just gave a very straight view of what I said earlier. Maye if someone reads you posts and then looks back at mine here, they might be able to see a bit clearer, how and why people get suicidal. on 10/09/06 at 14:28:03, Tiannia wrote:
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by sandie99 on Oct 11th, 2006, 11:07am I want to thank Jasmyn right here for having the courage to open this discussion. I know that I needed it personally. I've felt odd during the past few days and I only understood this afternoon why: I had not fully dealed with my emotions from 2004. I suppose it was my "make it or break it" - time and I chose life. I haven't felt suicidal since. And to be honest, I do not think that I'll cross that bridge ever again, either. Every time there's talk about suicide, somebody mentions how selfish it is. When I was close to killing myself, I went through pretty same thing as I saw in Ken's post: I felt that I was doing a favor to my closeones. I actually felt that my mum's life would be a lot easier when I'm gone. I felt that I was a drag to her and she'd be better off without me. When I told my mum how I felt, she simply ignored what I had said and adviced me to "get a donut". ::) That day has not been discussed since and I don't think that it ever will... It hurted me deeply that on the day I needed her the most she wasn't there for me. But that, too, is a thing of the past. I admit that spring 2004 is pretty much a haze to me. I recall the pain, the darkness, the desperation and praying God to take me or to show me a reason to live. I'm a stronger, happier woman now. Now I've closed that part of my life. If someone wants to talk about it with me, be my quest. I'm not shamed that I felt that way; there's nothing heroic about it either. It was my life then, now is different. I do believe that everything has a purpose and that spring showed me that I'm a lot stronger that what I thought. And that has helped me on the way. :) Best wishes & PF days, Sanna |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by KingOfPain on Oct 11th, 2006, 12:34pm http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1160416241 |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 11th, 2006, 12:51pm Kenn/ShadowLord - Very well said!!! I was trying to think of those same things, and the post that Tiannia reposted also was one that was helpful in my own reflection on my own reasonings. At the time, I also felt like I was such a burden to everyone around me that they'd be better off... I also felt like besides my parents, I really didn't think that anybody would miss me if I was gone.. I especially like the part about the temporary problem bit. You know, honestly, the first time I remember being depressed, I was around 6 years old. And I clearly remember periods of depression between 3rd and 5th grade. I know these times fluctuated in better and worse times, but since approx 10th grade, I honestly believe that I have spent more time in depression than out of it. With respect to my chronic migraine, I used to believe that the answer was out there and that it would go away, and now I've moved more towards acceptance that this is probably going to be with me for life. But between that and other things going on in my life, it does very often seem like these problems are never going to end. I certainly understand the rationale that they are temporary, but I also wondered what temporary meant when this was all I knew. It works the same way when various psychiatrists and therapists assure people that "it will get better." I haven't heard my psychiatrist say this, and I'm glad for that because in all honesty, even though I currently do not feel suicidal, I can't say that things are all that much better. I know that with regards to major depression, it usually occurs for a certain time period and then the person comes back to a balanced state. In dysthymia, it seems like the depression is always there, but it is not really all that severe - just sort of a constant state of "blah" and not really eminating to the level of suicidal thoughts or major depression. So that doesn't fit me really. So what am I? My depression tends to be more severe than the typical diagnosis of dysthymia, but at the same time, the episodes don't end clearly...depression seems like it is almost always a part of my life in some form. So I do sometimes question if temporary means that when I fall in love and get married, maybe then I'll leave some of this behind but temporary means all my life up until then...or what? It's hard to rationalize t hat, especially when a person IS feeling suicidal. Think I'll stop there, but I really did appreciate your post because it brought home to me the perspectives I was seeing all of those reasons from at the time. Even though we can give those as clear reasons not to commit suicide, when you feel that badly, you can't see them that way... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by JeffB on Oct 11th, 2006, 1:20pm This thread has gotten way too heated. Really can't believe what I've read. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by unsolved1 on Oct 11th, 2006, 1:31pm I agree, what a thread. It would be nice to be able to honestly discuss issues like this without letting our personal feelings take control. http://www.clusterhead.net/posting_pics/arguing.gif And when the pain stops, don't forget to do the victory dance ! :D http://www.clusterhead.net/posting_pics/victorydance.gif UNsolved 8) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 11th, 2006, 1:40pm on 10/11/06 at 13:20:02, JeffB wrote:
It has, but amidst some of the more antagonistic remarks, there are some great comments and good discussions going on here. I think that's the reason it keeps on going. It hasn't degenerated completely into attacks - and I, personally, still believe that this is an important topic that needed to be brought up (Thanks for that Jaz!!) because obviously it's something that many of us have strong opinions about, one way or the other. Since it's gotten so many responses, I just think it is good that people are able to talk openly about the issue. I'm obviously not referring to the attacks or fighting on here.....but if you look at the rest of the thread, I think it has been very valuable... |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 11th, 2006, 1:44pm I completly agree Carrie. There are many people who are carrying on a great discussion and ignoring the attacks and re-railing that has occured thruout the thread. As always read and learn what you want ignore the rest. No one here is perfect, but if something gets thru to you and healps, that is what you take away from this site. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BB on Oct 11th, 2006, 1:50pm on 10/11/06 at 12:51:05, Lizzie2 wrote:
This is a hearfelt plea from a supporter to all the sufferers: We supporters love you dearly and no, you are never a burden, but even if you are, we prefer you being here with us as a burden rather than not being here, we need you too. We know that we will never be able to physically feel the pain you go through, we can only stand helplessly by, watching, crying and trying to offer all that we have and then some more, in the hope that we may lessen you pain, somehow, sometimes ... We dearly would love to be able to feel that pain, to share it with you, to even take it all away for you .. but alas, where you go we cant follow .. we can only stay back here, cry our silent tears, bear our silent pain and try to hold fort until you come back ... We understand that at times you dont wish to take it anymore, dont want one more fight, cant take another day, that you all want to do is to lay down and rest , for a long long time, not just for a day or even a year... We also understand that if this is what you really want , there is nothing we can do to stop you, we may panic, we may get upset, we may try to fight, we may cry, we may beg ... but in the end its your decision and we know we must respect it. So once more you will go to a place that we cant follow you, no matter how hard we try or how much we want to. Again we will be left behind to hold fort, to continue to cry our silent tears and bear our silent pain, but this time you wont be comming back. We will need to somehow continue with our lives, to tidy up any unfinished business that you left behind, to try to comfort our broken heart and our bleeding soul with the thought that where you have gone you will be at peace, and there will be no more pain, that this pain that we now carry, we carry it for you, and that we still love you and miss you so very much. And we will hope that one day, maybe soon, that we will meet again, in a better place, where we can go with you wherever you go, to remain truly by your side, forever ... I love you , all of you . Please dont go. Annette |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Racer1_NC on Oct 11th, 2006, 1:50pm on 10/11/06 at 13:31:21, unsolved1 wrote:
That would happen if everyone was sitting around a table and had to look each other in the eye while talking instead of being safely seperated by 1000's of miles and typing responses. Bill |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 11th, 2006, 2:04pm Annette Wrote Quote:
This statement right here is why I want my husband and I to come to San Diego in Jan. I want him to meet wither supporters and realize that he is not alone either. That if he needs it he can use this site for support and understanding the same way I do. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 11th, 2006, 2:27pm Annette - Those are very beautiful words and thank you for writing them. I'm in a place now where I haven't had those thoughts for at least awhile now....and so I totally see things from the perspective that what I was thinking then was so false. At that time, I believed that everyone would be better off if I was gone. At this time, I know that while they may not like having to put up with me all the time, they're happier to do that than to stand at my funeral. Early on in the summer, my aunt, who is a very prominent publisher in NYC, was going through a very bad breakup and was at her therapist's when she said she was suicidal and said what her plan was. The therapist wanted to admit her to the hospital, but instead they called my parents... The therapist filled my family in on what was happening, and my dad went up to New York and brought his baby sister home to our house for awhile. It hasn't been easy for my aunt at all....but I think that the love and understanding my parents gave her was just what she needed. The only part that plagued at me was that when I had told my dad (by order of my guidance counselor who said that if I didn't tell my parents, then he would) that I had passive suicidal thoughts back when I was a senior in high school, he flipped out. He yelled at me and told me how weak that was, that it was a sin, and so on. My mom didn't want me to go to a psychologist, and I'll never forget her sitting on my bedroom floor before I left for school, crying and pleading with me not to do this. So then when I saw their reaction to my aunt, I was a little confused. Did it matter that she was my dad's sister and I was their teenage daughter at that time? I have never again told them about any recurrent thoughts (and I never told my mom about even that one...), and I have told my psychiatrist repeatedly that I NEVER want them to know what we talk about. He said that there may be a time that we needed to talk to them, but it would always be something we discussed, etc. I told him that when doing my psychiatry rotation, I saw people in family meetings...and they were never happy. My mom had come with me to a few psychology appts back in high school. It was supposed to be a safe place where I could say things that would stay in the appt. When I said that I felt like I wasn't the only person that was unhappy in my family, that I felt that she and my other family members also seemed quite unhappy much of the time, she took that home and pointed out all week long how happy they all were and that I was wrong in saying that. I never brought her with me again. The past couple of years, she has been supportive of my going to the psychiatrist. I don't know if this is because she has seen what I go through with repeated extended hospitalizations for chronic migraine, and even if I don't tell her some of the deepest darkest stuff, I talk to my mom several times a day and there isn't a whole lot I don't tell her. She knows I have depression, and she does sometimes ask me how my therapy appts are going. I haven't told my parents that I go twice a week...I usually only tell them the one appt for the week, but that's because even though they are so much more supportive of me now with respect to psychiatry, I still have my hesitations and memories about how things were before. So even though my psychiatrist and I have talked extensively about my own suicidal thoughts in the past, I never told them. When my aunt was going through her crisis, I so wanted to tell them that I understood...and wanted to disclose my own feelings. My own worst period was happening at the same time really. When I went to Florida and my suitcase didn't make it there, I stood outside a restaurant because I couldn't stop crying about the missing suitcase...and I told my mom that I had been crying so much more over any little thing lately...and she told me that I just needed to pull together. It must be different about daughters versus other relatives. I don't know, if I were to have disclosed to them how I was really feeling, if they would have responded the way my dad responded all those years ago, or if they would have responded the way they did to my aunt...or somewhere in between. But obviously this was sort of a difficult thing for me to go through in my own way. I do want to stress that I currently do not have suicidal thoughts. I went to my psychiatry appt on Monday, and I told him about some of the discussions here, and I told him that I had been thinking lately that I just didn't feel suicidal. I was glad, but also puzzled about what had changed. My life hasn't changed, but suddenly I just felt differently. That screams chemical imbalance to me! I also told him that for the first time in awhile, I felt interested in dating again, and I even put a profile back up on a dating site that I used to use. He was glad to hear that I sounded better - not just no longer feeling suicidal, but also having interest in dating again, etc. I may not be able to say when I really feel at my worst because I've stated here that I am not good at reaching out, but I can say that for now, I'm doing okay. :) Sure there are things that get me down, but I'm having normal emotional reactions and not overexaggerated depressive responses. That's nice. :) Sorry to go off on the big long tangent there! I just always have a lot to say on this topic! Hugz, Carrie :) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 11th, 2006, 2:30pm For some reason, my last post keeps popping up twice but when I delete one of them, it deletes both of them...so now I'm trying to just modify this 2nd one and see what happens! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 11th, 2006, 3:04pm Carrie - I totally understand. When I came to college and ended up having to deal with a lot from my past and family so that I could help people. Being a psych major and working in the field you have to have your own shit worked out or you can not help anyone else. Well anyway. I decided to tell my parents that I was in fact suicidal when I was in high school. All I heard about was how stupid I was and that it must hae been a phase that was such and such friends fault and influence. That how could I let them down like that and what would the people in the church think if I had killed myself, how would they look to everyone. It is sad when someone reaches out to others for help and all they can think about is how it effects them. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by deltadarlin on Oct 11th, 2006, 4:43pm And *this*, my dears, is why discussion is needed about suicide. So we, as friends, parents, siblings whatever don't make a mistake and react in away that could possibly have chilling consequences. The more this is out in the open, the more people learn and hopefully understand. BB/Annette, That was beautiful. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LadyElaine1 on Oct 11th, 2006, 5:24pm Hell Margi go ahead chew ass ! Hell Let me tell you something about supporters, when I get hit I go to them fist. Jackie and Margi, I have known Margi and Jackie since 1999 and I trust them both with my life. Kirt and anyone else who thinks bad of Margi,or ANY supporter Fuck off [smiley=finger.gif] |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jackie on Oct 11th, 2006, 5:33pm on 10/11/06 at 17:24:19, LadyElaine1 wrote:
LMAO......Yeah, what Elaine said.... ;;D Jackie |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 11th, 2006, 5:38pm on 10/11/06 at 17:33:45, Jackie wrote:
Count me in, Margi fuckin rocks!!!! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by LeLimey on Oct 11th, 2006, 6:22pm Y'all can count this lil lady from West Texas in too... with bloody knobs on! ;;D Helen |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Oct 11th, 2006, 6:25pm What they all said! Margi - you rock!!!!! Hugs Carol |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 11th, 2006, 7:00pm Quote:
FUCKEN EH ELAINE !! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 11th, 2006, 7:08pm That fuckeneh goes for me too, but also to our resident physician/supporter/friend Annette, to whom the original insult was made to. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Bob P on Oct 11th, 2006, 7:17pm Margi's abnormal! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 11th, 2006, 7:20pm Quote:
No she's not ! Aboriginal maybe, but not abnormal |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Dave_Emond on Oct 11th, 2006, 8:10pm I've read all that has been said here regarding CH and Suicide and am going to force this message out no matter how long it takes me and whether it's a late response or not. What gets me is those who say they "never" considered suicide! Bull! One would first have to have to even of had a thought or consideration before they could even offer an opinion!. One may not consider it as an option, but they had to confront the "word" suicide, think about it and decide at least once where they stood on the matter. Once done, yes ... you can then say to others " It's not an option for me!." Want an elephant to crap on your head? Just the question had to put a thought in your mind of consideration, of course you're immediate response would be "no" (for those who are reasonable), but still you had to think, no matter how quickly to give an answer? Just the same, no one within the horrors of a Kip 10 could possibly not think death would be better... at the moment! That doesn't make one suicidal though, in fact, they fight off the thoughts in defiance! If anyone can say to another "I've never considered it" ... Bull! (And don't attack those who are honest enough to admit it.) Some think I'm suicidal ... wish I was truth be told, but I'm not. Rumors and a misunderstood post along with an insane supporter put things way out of context. I'll admit ... I'm more than ready to die today, I'd look forward to it. But ... my faith beliefs will never allow me to take my own life. Oh, yes ... I've even tried to think of every imaginable scheme where I could die and it not be considered my fault, still looking but doubt I'll ever find one way to do that. Anybody else know what I mean? Some could argue with me that since I'm in CHRONIC pain from other ailments on top of CH gives me more reason to "consider" suicide as an option. Told I'll die soon and they can't stop it, no pain medications to help, died once and revived (Dang!) and just the plain fight against all this adds to depression and a simple feeling of worthlessness. My father died last year from one of the same conditions I have, my brother killed himself last year as well with a shotgun. My supporters up here are all in bad health and may even go before me. Muscles in other areas are now beginning to fall apart as well ... extreme pain! Braces don't work anymore. A few nights ago, muscles hanging and no relief, only choice was the floor. Felt relief for a bit, but fell asleep ... hence, not being in a chair, I rolled over and got stuck on my back laying down (again, if I sleep at all it has to be sitting up for many years now). Of course I got hit with a Kip 10 instantly. I couldn't get up, muscle spasms throughout body wouldn't even let me get back to at least my side. 3 1/2 hours later I finally made it up. I prayed to God "to kill me or heal me!" Kip 10's will make many make this plea. If not ... God rest his soul ... Clusterheads might as well change our guide to the Kip 8 scale. Otherwise, don't tell me you've ever had a Kip 10! (Contradictary!) I'm against suicide ... FOR MYSELF. However, I won't accept that a Benevolent God could damn a person who is incapable mentally of making "considerations" or choices rationally and ends their life. My brother was mentally ill, and I know he is in the comfort, peace and presence of God right now, and as much as I miss him, I feel better for him ... and will even go as far to say I envy him. Again, I won't do myself in, although it's a hourly thought, my faith won't allow it. Just something I had to say, even if it took me days to write! Peace, strength and love to you all, Dave (Gotta add a P.S.): Johnny ... I can only ask you find a new approach to those who call. Instead of "just do it then" I'd hate to think what you might feel sometime if your confident took your advice! You prepared to hear a gunshot go off over the phone at your advice? I understand that most who will take the time to reach out to another are asking for help to keep them from doing it ... but for some reason many still consider you the self proclaimed "King" and may take your advice ... what then? Get off your high horse in this area, you do much better playing king when you are among the boards helping people, I know ... I'm one of them you've helped much. (Thanks) (Many prayers for you and your family Elaine!) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 11th, 2006, 8:23pm on 10/11/06 at 20:10:50, Dave_Emond wrote:
I feel so special that you singled me out, Dave....makes me all warm inside. When someone calls me and says something like that I consider the source.....I was right, it was bullshit. So get off your fucking high horse that you ride in on every once in awhile and STFU till you know the details, ok? BTW.....havent you been posting that you have three months to live for the last five years?.....Hmmmmmm |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 11th, 2006, 10:39pm Quote:
At least that long and crying wolf for that long to. Fuckin drama king been playing with peoples emotions for ever. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 11th, 2006, 10:59pm on 10/09/06 at 11:54:33, wrote:
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Donna_D. on Oct 12th, 2006, 12:11am ....and what have we learned from these 10 pages? People with chronic pain are listed in the hi risk category when it comes to suicide or suicide attempts. MOST of us have had suicidal thought(s) at some time or another due to pain, depression, isolation, financial strife, and various other causes including cluster headaches. Most have chosen not to walk down the path of self destruction by taking our own lives and those of us who have tried (and thankfully failed) are now in a "better mental place" and (hopefully) do not have these thoughts any more. We ALL feel the "pain" of cluster headaches. It matters not whether we are a sufferer who feels the physical pain or supporter/sufferer-supporter who feels the mental pain of helplessness when we see someone we loved being tormented and can do nothing but offer what assistance will be accepted and pray for a speedy departure of the beast. Suicide IS a subject that needs to be discussed and through (civil) discussion solutions can be found and implemented to HELP our fellow sufferers. Support systems that are already in place (Suicide hotline numbers, et. al.) should be readily available and prominantly displayed for ANYONE who comes to these boards to quickly reference in time of need or crisis. I think that we all know that fighting amongst ourselves does nothing but tear apart the very framework that made this site what it truly is today...a sanctuary for those in pain, a lifeline for those in desperation, a support system for those that have none, a sense of finally "fitting in" somewhere with others who truly KNOW the nature of the beast, a home. We need to move past this thread folks. While I agree that this is a subject that needs to be discussed, I don't see anything productive arising from this point forward from this particular thread. Sides have been chosen, battle lines drawn and it is a war that no one person or side will win. A house divided will eventually fall...just hope it isn't on the new person who found this site yesterday and saw this thread and decided based on the contents that this site had nothing to offer but fighting and back biting. What a pity that would truly be...there is so much good here to offer. I hate to see any opportunity wasted to help another person who comes here seeking help. At the end of the day we are ALL still what we were when we origianally found this place...a person who suffers from or supports someone with cluster headaches. Mend your fences folks, quit using your troll poking sticks on each other. Remember we are ALL in pain and try to forgive and forget. The clusterhead/supporter you piss off today may be the one who offers you the most help tomorrow. I love you all. DD |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jimi on Oct 12th, 2006, 12:46am Great summary and good advice DD. No more for me on this thread. Let's talk about sufferage of another sort like Womens Sufferage. How did we let the women sneak up on us and achieve the vote? .......Night ladies and germs. I still love you guys even if you are arseholes some of the time. :P |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 12th, 2006, 1:36am To those that have tired of the discussion, I understand. I also understand why some want it to end before damage is done to friendships etc....but, There are people here that are healing themselves and others, by expressing their feelings. If one thread of a discussion on a deep subject, where people might get a bit touchy-feely, makes you uncomfortable....that's ok. There are plenty of other threads to read. It's obvious that it's an important topic for many people and there may still be people that want to add something of interest, or importance, for themselves or others. Why is it obvious? Because no matter how many times people try to throw it off course, like every other thread, it always comes back to the original topic. To those that have nothing to offer but jokes, at others expense, there is a joke forum just for you. One thread on this board, with all the different topics and the different threads in each, will not change the overall feel of the site. There are still plenty of other places here where newbies can read the infighting, cluster information, and learn how not to dock a boat. One thing I learned on this thread, was to get a much better understanding of many people here. There are things to learn about people, on a more personal level beyond what their beer of choice, or triptan of choice, is.... which I think, will lead to a better understanding and acceptance of other's views. On all topics. If you want a way cut down on some of the infighting, one way is to learn more, and understand more, of where other's here are coming from..and where they've been. As one example, I'm impressed as hell with Tia (among others). Haven't had much of a chance to read much of her writings/thoughts/viewpoints etc. I think I'm going to spend the rest of the night googling Wicca ;-) Anyway, I think the fact that this thread continues to rebound to its origin, shows its one of the most important threads in a long time. Its obvious (to me) that many people have wanted to talk about it for a long time. It would be nice to have a thread end when everyone that had anything constructive to add, had done so, and not have it end because it got out of hand. Maybe everyone is done. If so, fine...I'll see you all in the medications forum. Bobw |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by BlueMeanie on Oct 12th, 2006, 3:19am I apologize for for my earlier post in this thread. I've had 3 good friends lost to suicide, and I'll never get over being mad at them for what they did. The last friend ended his life when I went to Vegas (highlite of the trip meeting Tia ). He was very unstable at the time from his wife leaving him and loosing his job. I was helping by hiring him at the power plant I managed and was scared to leave him alone, as I knew something bad would happen. Sure enough, when I returned it was too late. Life is too short people. Don't make it any shorter than it already is. If you need help please call the National Hopeline Network 800-SUICIDE or at least check in here as there's always someone around to talk to. Thank you Donna & Bobw for your posts. PFDAN |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by chewy on Oct 12th, 2006, 7:05am Quote:
Email me. I'll send you the pamphlet, video, and How Not To CD. There is no cost except S/H S/H = $3000.00 |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by rickyshot on Oct 12th, 2006, 8:53am on 10/11/06 at 19:00:09, chewy wrote:
Don and company . I wish y'all posted these on my supporter thread. I too will give another fucken eh!!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Dave_Emond on Oct 12th, 2006, 9:14am Quote:
Quote:
Sorry "King", I must have missed your credentials as a Psychologist in the area of suicide crisis expertise. I must have forgot that you are always right. I fear the day you find yourself wrong and someone pays dearly for it. Quote:
What? The King hasn't done his homework this time before posting? I can answer your question easy enough ... no! My first post that I even mentioned that something was wrong with me was just a couple months over 3 years ago and there was no clue as what these problems were. I'll refresh your memory for you: Need help fast, I may be done fighting! « on: Aug 31st, 2003, 12:35pm » http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2003posts;action=display;num=1062354954 BTW ... sorry but could the King be wrong again? Of course! I never mentioned a confirmation that I was told by the doctors that they have given up and told me I had weeks to maybe a year and a half to live until May 23 of this year. I apologize that I have lasted about 6 months or so as you wait for me to die, but despite that, I'm still going to try to last longer than the docs say I've got. Hope this doesn't inconvenience you Hmmmmm......? Oh, and here's that post for you as well: "End of the Line" « on: May 23rd, 2006, 11:28pm » http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=2006Gposts;action=display;num=1148441313 You talk of details, Hmmmmm..... Sorry about this to everyone else, but I can't sit back and take this bull when someone spouts off about things they don't even know what they are talking about yet try to put it out as truth! I would have taken this to private, but it wasn't said in private. This is a very serious thread for so many of us and if we differ in opinion, so be it. I do hope we can get back on track, Peace, Dave |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by brewcrew on Oct 12th, 2006, 10:43am on 10/12/06 at 09:14:35, Dave_Emond wrote:
Yet you claim to know the truth about what has actually occurred inside my head. Seems like you stated earlier: Quote:
You might want to first look in the mirror when you criticize people for spouting opinion as truth. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by JeffB on Oct 12th, 2006, 11:02am on 10/12/06 at 00:46:34, Jimi wrote:
I agree, we need to put an end to womens sufferage. ;;D |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Bob P on Oct 12th, 2006, 11:22am Quote:
Good man Dave. The Lord will reward you for that decision. Peace brother. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 12th, 2006, 11:45am Quote:
BobW/Pink I want to thank you for that. That is a huge compliment. I had received one pm that the person felt that my posts in this thread where right on and helpful to them. But I honestly was not sure if anyone had read my posts at all. So the fact that they brought about thought and insite is extreemly gratifying. If you do any any questions pls pm me, I'd be happy to talk about anything. Quote:
Blue It was great to meet you as well, and something I will never forget. I do understand. I had a friend that chose to take his life. Even after I spent 3 hours on the phone with him and thought I had gotten him to meet me in the morning before class. I was so f'ing pissed at him for breaking that promise. I wanted nothing more then to scream at him and kick the shit out of him, that he did not give me a chance to help him. But in order for me to heal, I had to realize that when it came down to it, that it was his choice. That the time that he had in this life, he lived the way that he wanted to and that was not different in his death. That rather then let someone or something make a choice for him, he chose to take that control into his own hands. I dont have to agree with it or like it, but it allowed me to say good bye and not harbor those bad feelings towards him that only hurt me more. Blessed be, my friend. Tia |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Lizzie2 on Oct 12th, 2006, 2:09pm Tia, I certainly read what you wrote also! Because in high school, 2 of my best guy friends made a suicide pact with each other saying that "if you go down, i go down" and I got stuck in the middle of it somehow, I've always wanted to help others ever since. I'm also trained in crisis counseling as I worked for the Lion Support student assistance line at Penn State. Granted, we did a lot of referrals, but I spent many a night talking to someone for an hour and a half + until they felt a little better. I had to take a class for it, and I'll never regret doing that even as time went by and I didn't have as much time for the group as initially. I might be on one side of the fence with feelings and experiences, but I'm also on the other as someone who has worked for a crisis line and is now a nurse. I most certainly have read what you (and everyone really) has written on this thread and I agree with BobW - it has helped us to learn more about each other... Hugz, Carrie :) |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Tiannia on Oct 12th, 2006, 3:29pm Thanks Carrie. I think I said that very badly. I just felt that with the bickering and derailing that happened throughout this thread that it would be easy for people to skip over posts and that I thought mine might have gotten lost in the shuffle. But I kept posting and sharing my ideas and such because I was hoping that someone who needed it or could get anything out of them would read it and maybe find the understanding or support they need. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by maffumatt on Oct 12th, 2006, 4:27pm john_d Guest I liked John. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by thomas on Oct 12th, 2006, 5:16pm on 10/12/06 at 16:27:54, maffumatt wrote:
Me too. He'll probably be back. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 12th, 2006, 5:59pm on 10/12/06 at 17:16:04, thomas wrote:
Picture/Text Name: john_d Posts: 0 Position: New Board Newbie Date Registered: Today at 5:51pm ICQ: AIM: YIM: Email: hidden Website: Gender: Age: Location: Titusville, FL, USA |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by john_d on Oct 12th, 2006, 6:02pm Sorry, I actually did not have an account and created one to pay respects to Lee. I'll just leave the account this time. Thanks for noticing. All is well and pain free at the moment. Sorry to hear about all the recent tragedy on here. It's sad. Hope life is pain-free as possible for all. John D |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Carl_D on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:21pm After trying to leave this thread alone, KNOWING full well I'd catch hell for my 2 cents and 2 attempts... I have been suicidal since I was a child. I went through alot of shit as a kid, and it didn't help having a father who hated my existence because I was not supposed to be here (I learned many things after he died that explained alot and brought closure). I will not even go into the shit I dealt with growing up (no pity party here unless you're bringing me some Jager, Mkay). That being said, I am an artist/ poet/ musician, and quite possibly more passionate than most people. I also internalize alot of things. I wear thick skin on the outside but am very fragile inside. My last attempt was January 2003, and how I didn't succeed I will never know. I have just counted myself as dead when I was released from the hospital and from that point on count everything as bonus. I have had many many thoughts, especially last year. I survived. I've come to realize I am at war with myself, the unsceen CH beast, and the sandman who hides from me. This weekend, I went through some situations that made an end sound like a vacation. Sleep deprivation fucks with me ALOT. In the past few weeks, I got rid of any other disturbances (including a ?friend? of many years who did nothing but tear me down and put me down. Since I kicked him to the curb I have felt a bit better about myself, and my friends and family (even my boss) has been applauding me for getting rid of a devils advocate. Like my boss said, your friends will encourage and build you up. Someone who is always picking on you is NOT your friend. This, I know is true. I do not cut down my friends, or kick them when they are down. With that said, I have enough fucked up shit to deal with that I already know I will not live a long life, so why rush it? Why not try to accomplish one more thing before getting stolen from this existence. There is a 15 year old who is moody enough and thinks everything is dead and pointless anyway. I don't need to give her one more reason. In fact, if no one else could keep me from doing something STUPID (Yes it is a stupid act, for some impulsive and unerasable but for others it is a desperate way out) she keeps me around. I've known alot of people who have committed suicide, and I cannot hold against them what they did. I am pissed and hurt, but try to understand. Some people have stronger coping mechanisms. Some of us have to find avenues in which to cope. I could say much more, but might be wasting my breath. Peace, keep fighting and STAY HARD! Carl D |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:29pm Please kill yourself right now, Carl......I beg you!!!!.....Please do it!!!! |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Carl_D on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:38pm on 10/15/06 at 20:29:07, Jonny wrote:
Nat Ganna Dew it!!!! Nevah!!!! I live by a little motto from a song by the band MUSE: "No one's gonna take me alive. The time has come to make things right. You and I must fight for our rights. You and I must fight to survive!" That is one beast I have overcome. Whatever kills me, will not be by my hands and like I said, I already know my life will be short so why pushit? I have more fight in me than I ever did, and I think that scares some people. It makes me smile. But thanks for the encouragement. :-* Peace, Carl |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:42pm The motto says nothing about bitching and whinning. ;;D |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Carl_D on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:45pm on 10/15/06 at 20:42:40, Jonny wrote:
Bitching and whining is so 5 minutes ago Jonny, get with the times. By todays standards, I am "Emo" [smiley=laugh.gif] *However, I will not be caught DEAD playing emo music. I listen to it, but won't play it. |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Jonny on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:55pm Bring this thread to the top of the board, after it fell to the second page is just BS......you had plenty of time to say what you wanted............why dig this up now? |
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Title: Re: CH and Suicide Post by Carl_D on Oct 15th, 2006, 9:01pm Because I wanted to respond before, but wanted to wait until I had sleep and was in the right frame of mind to do so coherently. This is a very delicate subject matter, and I didn't want to be misunderstood. I didn't look at it as drudging it off of the 2nd page. I just hope that someone else who DOES have suicidal thoughts will be encouraged to get to the root of the problem, beit chemical imbalance and depression, or struggling with CH or something else. I didn't want to just 'add' something until I have given it some thought. Not trying to just drudge it up. I haven't been on the board alot the past week, and it took alot for me to leave that post so gimme a break. |
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