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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> I'm torn (not ch)
        
(Message started by: alchemy on Aug 10th, 2006, 11:58am)
Title: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by alchemy on Aug 10th, 2006, 11:58am
My best friend and his wife are going through hell right now. She was pregnant and at first they thought the baby would have severe downs or die shortly after birth. After more tests the baby was said to be healthy. Two days after that the baby died so they had to go to a clinic and abort the dead fetus. Through out this time he has been no support to her at all, and actually blaming her. I believe this will end in divorse. I've been trying to be there for the both of them. Dave stuck with me when I lost everything. Everyone else bailed but he was there as a friend. I'm trying to do the same but now he doesn't even return calls. I'd like to help him but don't know how. Sorry I'm just venting and don't know what to do
jim
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by nani on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:02pm
Oh, Jim...what a terrible loss for them. Maybe you can help by letting him vent his anger and frustration on you, not her. This way he'll have a way to get it out, and hopefully won't hurt her in the process. They could both probably use some grief counseling, too. They (and you) are in my prayers.  :'(
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:02pm
OK---This is what you do-------Go find him ( forget the phone calls) ---when you find him --kick him in the ass, and tell him to be a real man !
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by kevinpix on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:09pm
We don't interpret like women do, we are the mighty ones!  We want to think it's the woman's fault, not ours.  We have weird thinking, yes, but we aren't perfect, only perfectly man.  Do you think I like hearing about tampons and gentle injectors??  But, for me to be with my wife, I have to buy those things when shopping, yuk, and there are 100s to choose from, just to make us stand there looking stupid.  If she loves her man she'll be patient and let it all sink in.  He wants to be there, we are taught early on to hide our feelings and to be tough, now don't confuse that with you're own agenda too.  Too much to fast, slow the boat down!!!
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by JeffB on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:10pm

on 08/10/06 at 12:02:48, zwibbs/Scott wrote:
OK---This is what you do-------Go find him ( forget the phone calls) ---when you find him --kick him in the ass, and tell him to be a real man !


My God thats horrible, my thoughts and prayers are with them and Gods newest angel. But I have to go with my man here and recommend a very swift and hard kick in the ass!
Best wishes.
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by Mosaicwench on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:13pm
I've learned from experience that one cannot help if no help is asked for.

Let your buddy know you're there when he needs you and then let him find his own way.  Mom probably needs you and will take whatever help you offer.

Good luck - seems like a rock and hard place for you . . .
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by TomM on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:17pm
Maybe just be a listening board for him and not judge him.
Is he wrong for blaming his wife? Yes.
Is he wrong for throw in the towel. Yes.
But, sometimes your job as a freind is to just listen and not judge. He needs a true freind right now and not someone to cast stones at him.
TomM
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by Paul98 on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:35pm
Jim-

Since this guy stuck by you when you were going through a rough time I'm assuming you are good friends.  Talk to the guy and try to point out that he is being a jerk to his wife.  Some people can't handle severe stress and lash out at the ones they love.  Perhaps a talking to might bring him around so he is supportive of his wife.

It is a tough position to be in Jim.  Good luck.

-P.
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by Melissa on Aug 10th, 2006, 12:44pm
Sounds like he needs something tangible to blame for the loss of the child, so he picked his wife to be it.  

Miscarrying was the most devistating loss I've ever had in my life.  The hardest thing was not having anywhere to place the blame.  

Hopefully your friend will come to the realization that there IS no one to blame, and move on.  

There isn't much you can do Jim, this is his own beast he needs to deal with.  He is an adult and if he makes the mistake of pushing his wife away to the point she doesn't want to come back, it is his problem to deal with.

I'm so sorry you have to witness it all. :(

hugs,
mel
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by Margi on Aug 10th, 2006, 1:13pm
I agree wholehearted with Mel, Jim.  Miscarriage IS devastating and mothers do really grieve for the loss of their child, no matter what stage of pregnancy.  I've been there.  But .. it's hard for it to be "real" to anyone else who hasn't seen or felt that baby.  I think it would be especially hard on the dad, he just doesn't know how to understand what just happened.  We do tend to take things out on our closest ones and...not one amongst us is perfect, we are by nature, imperfect.  I'm so sorry to hear that your friend is struggling with this issue, it's got to be so hard on him as well as the mom.  I think all you can do IS be there for him if he wants to talk.  It's not your place to judge him or his actions, it's your place to listen and let him talk.  I think anger is a very real part of the grieving process and maybe that's just the stage he's at right now.
For reasons we will never be privy to, that child has fulfilled it's intended purpose and wasn't meant to go any further here.  Sometimes, accepting that fact is nearly impossible for our little human brains.  But we just don't have much say or choice in the matter.  Maybe remind your friend of that?
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 10th, 2006, 1:42pm
Beautiful Margi. I agree. And I have suffered two miscarriages. After the first one at home I was very depressed for weeks. My ex was sad but no wheres near the same level as me. It just is not as real to most men until they hold their child in their arms. Women tend to bond instantly as soon as they hear they are pregnant. A Mars Venous thing. And yes when a catastrophic incident as this occurs people tend to want to look for blame. It is hard for us to accept that not only we don't have the answer but maybe never will in this life.
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by alchemy on Aug 10th, 2006, 2:20pm
Hey guys, thanks for the words of wisdom. I have to say I'm not mad at my friend, just sad about it all. I know how his mind works and to him it's a blow against his manhood. To me being a man is stepping up to the plate and dealing with whatever happens than to play the blame game. I can't teach him how to be a man but I can be there to help him on his journey. I left another message telling him anytime he needs to talk or whatever I'm there. The rest now is up to him.  
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by TomM on Aug 10th, 2006, 3:13pm

on 08/10/06 at 12:44:36, Melissa wrote:
Miscarrying was the most devistating loss I've ever had in my life.


Mel--We went through a miscarrage in 1988. So I understand completely.

And, per usual, Margi is spot on.


on 08/10/06 at 14:20:07, alchemy wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the words of wisdom. I have to say I'm not mad at my friend, just sad about it all. I know how his mind works and to him it's a blow against his manhood. To me being a man is stepping up to the plate and dealing with whatever happens than to play the blame game. I can't teach him how to be a man but I can be there to help him on his journey. I left another message telling him anytime he needs to talk or whatever I'm there. The rest now is up to him.  

Good for you, Jim. Sometimes the best you can do is offer to help, which you have done.
TomM
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by DonnaHar on Aug 10th, 2006, 3:33pm
The loss of a child is one of the hardest things a woman will ever go through. She absolutely needs her partner to be there for and with her.

A man, on the other hand, will usually react as he has learned from his father and male role models.  If his father had difficulty communicating during emotional times, whether to express love or support, this man will most probably also have a problem with communication.

I had two early miscarriages and had a live birth, 7 month premie who was just a beautiful little guy, but whose lungs needed just a little more time to develop.  He lived 36 hours.  When I cried, my husband asked me what the hell was the matter with me.....etc., etc.

Your friends needs counceling or this marriage will probably end within 2 years.

Sad but true.  He's probably suffering just as his wife is, but doesn't know what to do with it.  She will probably end with panic attacks and an ulcer, at the very least.
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by Charlotte on Aug 10th, 2006, 4:01pm
This is a rough one.  

Jim, he may not be able to call you right now.  My husband couldn't talk about ours for 7 years, and then one day he did.
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Aug 10th, 2006, 4:29pm

on 08/10/06 at 14:20:07, alchemy wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the words of wisdom. I have to say I'm not mad at my friend, just sad about it all. I know how his mind works and to him it's a blow against his manhood. To me being a man is stepping up to the plate and dealing with whatever happens than to play the blame game. I can't teach him how to be a man but I can be there to help him on his journey. I left another message telling him anytime he needs to talk or whatever I'm there. The rest now is up to him.  

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Jim , I didn't mean any disrespect. I agree with you about what a man does. I have always believed that a man doesn't point blame on someone who is already down, instead he shares the pain with his wife and they become a stronger unit -together !!      
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by alchemy on Aug 10th, 2006, 5:33pm
Well my friend called and at first was blowing the whole thing off and I just listened and all at once it started coming out, tears and anger alot of anger. for 20 minutes we cried together on the phone. He's at work and had to pull himself together but sounded a little better after our talk. I love him like a brother and feel like I lost a kid to this is just a tough one


ps. Scotty no offense taken bro [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by Margi on Aug 10th, 2006, 5:41pm
hugs to you too, Jim - you're a good friend.  Nothing shows that more than taking the time to down and cry with a friend and share their grief.  

Peace be with that baby's soul, and also those mourning the loss.  
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by cootie on Aug 10th, 2006, 6:21pm
Everything happens for a reason.......it's a big test for them.......but it's by far no ones fault Pam

They have to stop blameing each other or him blame her......whatever......and then.....heal and deal.......
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by BarbaraD on Aug 10th, 2006, 6:35pm
Having had four miscarriages (the last one at 5 months), I can say that is one of the hardest thing a woman will ever face.

My neice tried for years to get pregnant and when she did, she carried the baby for 6 months and then found out he was dead. She chose to abort the fetus rather than carry a dead child for another month until they could do a C-section and have a funeral. Some people (including her mother) called her a murderer -- but some of us understood and prayed with and for her. She now has two precious boys who we all love dearly and they're both healthy and sound as a rock.

Be there for your friend. He'll need you in the weeks and months ahead. But be there for his wife also. She's going thru a mental time that only someone who's been there would understand.

Hugs to all of you  BD
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by TomM on Aug 10th, 2006, 6:49pm

on 08/10/06 at 17:33:01, alchemy wrote:
Well my friend called and at first was blowing the whole thing off and I just listened and all at once it started coming out, tears and anger alot of anger. for 20 minutes we cried together on the phone. He's at work and had to pull himself together but sounded a little better after our talk. I love him like a brother and feel like I lost a kid to this is just a tough one


ps. Scotty no offense taken bro [smiley=smokin.gif]

Good for you and better for him. Crying is good no matter who you are.
Keep calling him. He is in his own little world right now and you are his reality check. Keep up the support.
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by TxBasslady on Aug 10th, 2006, 7:58pm
;;D   Ah, Jim....you have such a big heart   :-*     What a great friend you are     http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/iluvyousmiley.gif

Jean
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by alchemy on Aug 10th, 2006, 8:33pm

on 08/10/06 at 19:58:37, TxBasslady wrote:
;;D   Ah, Jim....you have such a big heart   :-*     What a great friend you are     http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/iluvyousmiley.gif

Jean


tell anyone and I'll have to go to texas and whoopass [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by Charlie on Aug 10th, 2006, 9:42pm

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK---This is what you do-------Go find him ( forget the phone calls) ---when you find him --kick him in the ass, and tell him to be a real man !


Succinct.

Works for me.

Charlie
Title: Re: I'm torn (not ch)
Post by kimmiedawn81 on Aug 11th, 2006, 9:55am

on 08/10/06 at 19:58:37, TxBasslady wrote:
;;D   Ah, Jim....you have such a big heart   :-*     What a great friend you are     http://www.cybergifs.com/faces/iluvyousmiley.gif

Jean

You are a really great friend Jim.  And my lips are sealed, I don't know anyone from Texas, except for some of you on here. ;)


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