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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> Some State Department
        
(Message started by: JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 11:52am)

Title: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 11:52am

Can you believe the State Department was going to charge folks to get them out of Lebanon?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by karma on Jul 19^th, 2006, 12:20pm

Yup just doesn't make sense.
You go to an area of unrest on your own to vacation or work and that damn govt just can't seem to get its shit together to give you a fast and free ride out when the shit hits the fan.
Probably shoulda sent more cruise ships ::)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 19^th, 2006, 12:22pm

My first question is why are they there?

Second did the govt. pay to get them there?

If they are not there for some govt. reason and the govt. did not send them in the first place, then they went to a war zone prone area on their own. They should take some responsiblity to get out on their own.

Why should the tax payers pay to get them out. They need to take some personal responsiblity.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 12:26pm

It wasn't a war zone when they arrived.
If your in a 7-11 and you get in the middle of a gun fight is it your fault for needing a rescue or should you have to pay the police to help you?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 19^th, 2006, 12:32pm

Why is the Govt responsible for every little bad thing that happens in an American life.

I did not say it was a war zone, I said it was a war prone area! And it is!!!

Its called personal responsibility, Taking responsibility for your own actions! Nobody made them go there. We provided transportation - their out. Do they not think that their life was worth $200 for them to personally pay, or is it only worth it for me to pay?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by thomas on Jul 19^th, 2006, 1:31pm

I could almost imagine that I am posting in drag on this thread. ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Bob P on Jul 19^th, 2006, 1:55pm

Ditto!

I am glad we're not gonna do anything until Israel has a chance to some hezbullock ass! Them guys know how to fight a war on terror!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:06pm

What were those nuts thinking when they went into Israel. I heard the opinion that it was to take the spotlight away from our friends in Iran.
And I love the fact that Rice isn't exactly rushing out there to talk peace.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:27pm

Dontcha think they were all issued a warning when they received their visas? I seem to remember getting fair warning from the government when I travelled to the UAE and Saudi Arabia in July of 1991....

Anybody who is there on the government dime should be removed on the government dime. If they're there on business or vacation, however, they are responsible for paying to get their asses out as well. Quibble about the bill later, sure, but weren't they planning to come home at some point anyhow?

Uncle Sam is NOT my big brother. I take care of myself and mine - and I certainly cannot afford a vacation to Lebanon.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:35pm

Karma, Gena..AMEN!

BobP,
if "Them guys know how to fight a war on terror!" then why in the hell are they always getting the shit blown out of em by S.Bombers? Apparently the war they fight isn't doing much in the way of deterring those crazy mother&uckers from blowing up themselves and innocent civilians!

Anyway...they shouldn't have been there in the first place. They shouldn't expect me and my tax dollars to bail them out of a situation that was inevitable!

Right on BrewC ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:36pm

Syria turned away westerners, can't exactly get in Israel, airports have really big holes in the runways, I guess swimming is an option.
I guess those dumb kids who went to school in Grenada should have been billed when the Marines had to rescue them. I mean come on, it's Lebanon not Afgahnistan.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:45pm

$500 billion to promote democracy in Iraq, not a penny to rescue U.S. citizens in when bombs start falling? Maybe there were no pennies left?

on 07/19/06 at 14:35:12, Dissident wrote:

Anyway...they shouldn't have been there in the first place. They shouldn't expect me and my tax dollars to bail them out of a situation that was inevitable!

Curious why you say they shouldn't have been there - The President of Lebanon visited the White House recently, and he and his country were warmly praised. The civil war in Lebanon ended more than a decade ago, and they were trying to rebuild the country.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:49pm

on 07/19/06 at 14:36:09, JeffB wrote:

Transportation was provided - NOW it should be FREE!
I don't think so.
Is there even a thank you for the ride?
NO its why do I have to pay and why is the food not beter. Give me a FUCKING break

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:54pm

on 07/19/06 at 14:35:12, Dissident wrote:

BobP,
if "Them guys know how to fight a war on terror!" then why in the hell are they always getting the shit blown out of em by S.Bombers?

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloadsnew/cj_59068.wmv

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:56pm

on 07/19/06 at 14:45:04, floridian wrote:

Maybe there were no pennies left?

Maybe they should take responsibility for their actions. What a novel concept. They choose to go to a part of the world where everyone knows things can go south fast, and I'm supposed to bail them out? I think not.

Quote:

Curious why you say they shouldn't have been there.

I wouldn't have said that. I say, go wherever the hell you want or can get away with. But be a man about getting out when the situation changes. Ya pays your money and ya takes yer chances.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BarbaraD on Jul 19^th, 2006, 2:59pm

I always thought the AMERICAN Embassy was for AMERICANS, but during the FIRST Iraq war some of the guys my husband worked with were "guests" of Iraq (the Americans were the last out). Our AMERICAN embassy charged $15,000 a WEEK for them to seek REFUGE there. What's wrong with this picture.

Luckily, my husband had put off going to Iraq for a few days and was in a 5-star hotel in Saudi hoping it didn't get bombed. He managed to get out on his own without the American Embassy helping him.

And Gena, these ex-pats pay taxes in America and have families in America - they can just make more money (to support their families and the US government) in foreign countries. Iraq and Saudi supported us very well over the years as did Venezuela (lots of riots there).

The State Dept is a joke as far as helping Americans with anything. When my husband had a stroke in Venezuela, had I gone thru the State Dept he would have died before I got him back to the states -- as it was it took me four days (not saying I didn't break about 100 international laws, but....) and we never did find his passport.

What I'm getting at is most people who work in foreign countries pretty well take care of themselves and don't depend on the State Dept. This was an unusual occurance and it doesn't supprise me at all that they're being charged.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by karma on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:00pm

Quote:

Is there even a thank you for the ride?
NO its why do I have to pay and why is the food not beter. Give me a FUCKING break

This is the attitude that pisses me off as well. I just don't understand how people can think like this. It's this attitude of entitlement that embarrasses and disgraces the U.S.
Flo,
I dislike and distrust everything about the current administration. It doesn't mean that I agree with American citizens blasting the State Department for providing slow service, bad accomodations and possibly a bill for rescuing them.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:08pm

on 07/19/06 at 14:59:21, BarbaraD wrote:

And Gena, these ex-pats pay taxes in America and have families in America - they can just make more money (to support their families and the US government) in foreign countries. Iraq and Saudi supported us very well over the years as did Venezuela (lots of riots there).

No sure why this was addressed to me? So if they pay taxes they are entitled to a free ride home? I pay taxes can I have a free ride on a cruise ship?

As you have said, the state dept never paid before, so why do these people feel so entitled!

ONCE AGAIN IT IS CALL PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BobG on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:10pm

on 07/19/06 at 11:52:51, JeffB wrote:

Can you believe the State Department was going to charge folks to get them out of Lebanon?

And they damn well should be charged. And a lot more than 200 bucks!

on 07/19/06 at 12:22:44, Gena wrote:

My first question is why are they there?
Second did the govt. pay to get them there?
Why should the tax payers pay to get them out. They need to take some personal responsiblity.

Right On Gena!
The only Americans in that part of the world that were 'sent' there are military.
Every other person is there for their own profit. Either profiting from a well paying job or profiting from taking a vacation. They are there voluntarily. They went there with the full knowledge that the area was dangerous.
Fuck'em. Taxpayers should not be paying for a bunch of self-centered idiots.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:14pm

on 07/19/06 at 15:12:37, Sandy_C wrote:

Calm the ruffled feathers folks, our wonderful Congress actually told the State Department to stuff it. The folks now have a free ride out. Can ya believe it, our congress actually did something right for a change?

Sandy

you call that right - Cheese and rice. ::)

Namby Pamby Winney Libs :P

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Melissa on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:14pm

My how times have changed...

Americans Leave Beirut Aboard Cruise Ship

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20060719/D8IV82005.html

oh, and....

Quote:

The U.S. State Department said Tuesday it had dropped a plan to make Americans reimburse the government for the transport,....

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:15pm

where did the post go?

man that was fast, glad I got it when I did [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:28pm

on 07/19/06 at 14:45:04, floridian wrote:

Yeah, he's just a big cream puff...It's not like Hezbollah didn't grab a couple of Israeli soliders and blow up a couple of Humvees or anything. Or that they continue to send kids to blow themselves up in markets or busses...Hezbollah is like the corner day care center, not a bunch of terrorists! They are going to find out why Israel is the #3 Air Force and Army in the world. They only reason they aren't higher is because there aren't many of them. And Lebannon is going to get it's ass kicked...again.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by karma on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:35pm

Quote:

And Lebannon is going to get it's ass kicked...again.

Thats the sad thing about this conflict.
Lebanese people are truly a friendly, caring society and Lebanon is a beautiful old city. It's not Lebanon or the Lebanese people that are the problem. But they will suffer again, as they have for generations.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:35pm

Wow.
I hope some of you aren't in government if I find myself in a pickle while visiting/working in places like Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Venezuela, Bolivia, Vietnam, Philipenes or some other place.
My ass would be grass! lol

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by thomas on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:41pm

I just can't understand people who expect the gov't to do anything/everything for them. First of all it's a group of idiots that can't succeed in the private sector. So we vote for these morons to hold an office, then they appoint other idiots to run their offices. Then their offices expand because the morons can't do the work one person should be able to do, so they hire even more idiots. It takes a month for a memo to go from a secretary to whoever thinks they're in charge. These people, for the most part can't make it on their own, but they are supposed to take care of us, it's actually quite laugable, well it would be if it weren't so fuckin' sad. But really, why do you folks expect them to be perfect? For me, the less they do for me the happier I find myself. And only an idiot or a greedy m*th*rf**k*r goes to a theater that is engaged in multi national tactical warfare. But then to expect a bueracracy full of morons to pull your ass out of the fire is reaching just a little bit.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 3:48pm

on 07/19/06 at 15:14:07, Gena wrote:

you call that right - Cheese and rice. ::)

Namby Pamby Winney Libs :P

You gotta stop holding it in like that, girl. It's gonna eat you up inside!

P.S. - You go, girl!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by john_d on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:19pm

We are spending a fortune on the attempt to stabilize and rebuild the foreign country of Iraq and you guys are attacking spending a little bit of money to get our fellow Americans out of a war zone. Geez, we give Isreal alone billions of dollars annually in military aid which probably includes the bombs our citizens are in danger of being hit by right now.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:19pm

I guess I shouldn't have said "they shouldn't be there". I should have said, If they got there on their own buck, they should get out on their own buck. I have no problem with our government helping get them out but they should reimburse the gov for costs incurred.

Jonny,
What's that video got to do with my comment?
For every one bomb that is detected...5 make it through to kill innocent people...that's not winning a WOT!

Floridian
You make a good point but keep this in mind...we shouldn't have been over there spending money either. Can you imagine the positive impact that 500,000,000,000 would have made on our own educational system? Children in other countries like China wouldn't be so far ahead of us.

I'm gotta get outta this thread before someone get's their feelings hurt.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:25pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:19:42, Dissident wrote:

Jonny,
What's that video got to do with my comment?
For every one bomb that is detected...5 make it through to kill innocent people...that's not winning a WOT!

Thats a laugh in its self. all you see on tv are the ones that get through, to think that more get through than get caught is just stupid!

Not that im calling you stupid or anything ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jackie on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:25pm

What a bunch of crap.......bet it cost more than $200 for the ticket in.......they should be damn glad to get out....period!!! I must say....if you're stupid enough to go into that part of the world, of your own free will, then you best be prepared to suffer the consequences.
Asking the gov't. to wipe our butts every time we do something that doesn't turn out well is nuts!!! Hell, they (gov't) can't wipe their own.

As to Israel....I say they need to keep doing what they're doing. They'll kick hell out of the terriorist (or what ever we choose to call them this time) just like they always do. They are really good at taking care of their own........somebody has been trying to kill them since the begining of time and can't get it done. Hezbollah chicken sh*ts won't get it done either. Go Israel!!

I'm done....well, for now anyway

Jackie

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:26pm

Damnit,
Guess I'll have to find the statistics AGAIN!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by thomas on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:27pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:19:21, john_d wrote:

I'm not attacking the spending, like that ever does ANY good whatsoever. I'm laughing at people who think our government officials are more qualified to look after their needs than they, the individuals are.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:30pm

If I choose to be a Nick Berg and go to make money in a war zone like Iraq I can see the whole "on my buck thing". But if I go to a place like Lebanon and get in a cross fire that really came out of no where, you're god damn right I expect my government to get me out. I already pay taxes so why should I pay again? Hell, the French and Italians were Johny on the spot to get their folks.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:31pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:26:41, Dissident wrote:

Damnit,
Guess I'll have to find the statistics AGAIN!

Please do ;;D

Remember, one is detected and five get through to kill people, ok?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:32pm

Stupid! LOL I've seen some of your posts!

When I find em...I'll be calling you my bitch.Kidding kidding...trying to break the tension here :D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:34pm

Im waiting for the stats :-*

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:36pm

on 07/19/06 at 15:35:58, JeffB wrote:

Jeff - I am here to make your wish come partially true. I can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE that I won't be in government when you find yourself in a pickle! ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:37pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:32:27, Dissident wrote:

Stupid! LOL I've seen some of your posts!

When I find em...I'll be calling you my bitch.Kidding kidding...trying to break the tension here :D

The only tension I see here is in Jonny's purse strap. ;;D

B$

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:37pm

Yay! Hall of Famer status!

Group hug!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BarbaraD on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:38pm

Gena, sorry if I answered the wrong person.

My point was only that the ex-pats pay a "large" amount of taxes and when in danger, EXPECT a little "help" from embassy or the State Dept. I don't know about the students over there and don't have an opinion on that one (yet).

But having experience with our State Dept and our American Embassies, I can tell you that they need some "revising". If you're an American in a foreign country and go to the american embassy for help - good luck (been there tried that one). I got angry in one and called my Congressman back home and gee... I got something done. And that was in London. We were trying to get back to the US and my husband's passport was in Houston waiting on a visa and all we needed was a duplicate passport (seems there was some bombings going on in London and we weren't into fireworks that week). But it took a damn Congressman in the US to get them to do anything (and we weren't arguing about paying their fee).

When my husband had his stroke, I called the State Dept and explained that it was imperitive that I get him back to the states asap. They were going to SEND me the paperwork and then I could mail it back to them, etc. etc. etc. Like I said had I taken that route -- he'd have been dead by the time they got the damn paperwork to me. It cost me about $25,000 to get him back to the states, but it was cheaper than their way.

I guess I'm a little "sore" on this subject because I've been thru the travel abroad and seen how "our" people are treated when they need help first hand.

If we were illegal aliens in this country, we could have social security and medical care and NEVER pay anything for it -- why can't the US help OUR people like we do everyone else? Regardless of why they were there, I'd rather see my tax money helping OUR people than paying for illegal aliens or rebuilding a country that hates our guts.

Of course that's just my opinion, but I think everyone's entitled to it. :-*

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:38pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:37:22, brewcrew wrote:

Yay! Hall of Famer status!

Group hug!

FAG!....LMAO :-*

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:40pm

Thought it was Wikipedia...still looking. If I find that I'm wrong (although I'm not)...I don't mind if you call me your bitch ;;D
Either way, my point is still the same...they get the shit blown outta of em all the time...that's not winning the WOT and anyone who goes there knows damn good and well that they may be in harms way!

Now...getting back to my search...

"If we were illegal aliens in this country, we could have social security and medical care and NEVER pay anything for it"

it ain't F&CKING right and we shouldn't be paying for that either!

now back to my search....

MUST...PROVE.....Jonny......WRONG!
-edited to please Jonny, king and master of the board- ::)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:41pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:38:15, Jonny wrote:

FAG!....LMAO :-*

:-[ You're making me blush, big guy!

:-* Back at ya. ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:43pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:41:50, brewcrew wrote:

:-[ You're making me blush, big guy!

:-* Back at ya. ;)

Geez, Honey....I told you...NOT on the board ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by thomas on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:45pm

Just remember boys I haven't posted any pix yet. [smiley=laugh.gif] How much is it worth to keep me quiet?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:49pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:40:53, Dissident wrote:

MUST............PROVE.....Jonny..................WRONG!

You might want to delete the above so that this thread is not so blown out and a bitch to read.

Just a thought.

Edited: to shorten the quote incase hes smart enough to shorten his post.

Im going to cook on the grill ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 4:56pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:45:23, thomas wrote:

Just remember boys I haven't posted any pix yet. [smiley=laugh.gif] How much is it worth to keep me quiet?

Shhhhhhhh......you promised. ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:05pm

Hey "Hall Of Famer" Brew,
My Giants didn't do so well, don't you guys use steroids out here? I've seen normal cheese so why is the cheese from there so big? You guys gotta be juicing those cows!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:10pm

Waaaa...I don't like America, I'm going to Lebonnon...waaa...they are dropping bombs, America save me...waaa.... ::)

Oh please...

We do something about Iraq and everyone bitches, we don't do anything about Israel and Lebonnon and everyone still bitches...Personally, I would have left them over there, but hey, that's just me.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:10pm

BGH - Bovine Growth Hormone.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:12pm

on 07/19/06 at 17:10:47, brewcrew wrote:

BGH - Bovine Growth Hormone.

Not only good for making cows bigger...but also milk generating female parts! Go Go BGH!!! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by brewcrew on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:14pm

on 07/19/06 at 17:10:45, Tom K wrote:

Tom, you found the common denominator: Bitch, bitch, bitch. Give the man a cee-gar! ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:24pm

on 07/19/06 at 17:10:45, Tom K wrote:

Waaa, I can't go some place because I'm an American and am probably hated.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:32pm

on 07/19/06 at 17:24:21, JeffB wrote:

Waaa, I can't go some place because I'm an American and am probably hated.

Everybody hates Americans, but sure LOVE our money.

If we do something we get blasted, if we do not do something we get blasted. And don't get me started on the fact that apperently we can't DO enough ::)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 19^th, 2006, 5:39pm

on 07/19/06 at 17:12:02, Tom K wrote:

Not only good for making cows bigger...but also milk generating female parts! Go Go BGH!!! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Thats why are kids are getting taller, bigger. I look at my 13 yr old and we're eye to eye.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by maffumatt on Jul 19^th, 2006, 7:20pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:27:51, thomas wrote:

Hell ya
If you depend on the goverment for anything you will be disapointed.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 7:53pm

on 07/19/06 at 16:26:41, Dissident wrote:

Damnit,
Guess I'll have to find the statistics AGAIN!

on 07/19/06 at 16:31:26, Jonny wrote:

Please do ;;D

Remember, one is detected and five get through to kill people, ok?

on 07/19/06 at 16:32:27, Dissident wrote:

Stupid! LOL I've seen some of your posts!

When I find em...I'll be calling you my bitch.Kidding kidding...trying to break the tension here :D

on 07/19/06 at 16:34:19, Jonny wrote:

Im waiting for the stats :-*

on 07/19/06 at 16:40:53, Dissident wrote:

Thought it was Wikipedia...still looking. If I find that I'm wrong (although I'm not)...I don't mind if you call me your bitch ;;D
Now...getting back to my search...

now back to my search....

MUST...PROVE.....Jonny......WRONG!
-edited to please Jonny, king and master of the board- ::)

Long Live The King!!! [smiley=bigguns.gif]

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 8:09pm

Here is a nice little cartoon that Iran is showing on their television station. Since it has been proven that Iran is backing Hezbollah, maybe this will clear up any confusion why Israel is doing what they are doing...

http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=906#

The video is about 10 minutes...

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Charlie on Jul 19^th, 2006, 8:26pm

Under Theodore Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower and of course the Ronald Reagan Administration, such a question would never have been brought up. One thing Reagan did do to everyone's great surprise is to appoint a very well-qualified Secretary of State. George Shultz, whatever his other faults had a good brain and used it on our behalf, not Republicans. It's what state departments do: Protect Americans all over the world by getting them and their children to safety and ask questions later. Reagan knew that even when things go badly, you don't make war on your own people.

It's incredible reading this thread. Unbelieveable.

Forgot to reply to Thomas: His post is that of a true Libertarian. I have always been tempted by them but this is an example why I never joined. It's fine letting us alone to mind our own business but just because people are poor or behave dumbly is not a reason to punish our own unfortunate people. In this case, it would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

It's too bad though because I agree with so much of their ideas. Rats.

Charlie

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 8:29pm

on 07/19/06 at 20:09:55, Tom K wrote:

Here is a nice little cartoon that Iran is showing on their Childrens television station. Since it has been proven that Iran is backing Hezbollah, maybe this will clear up any confusion why Israel is doing what they are doing...

I fixed for you, Tom

TOUCHE'

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by jimmers on Jul 19^th, 2006, 8:35pm

Put it this way.

If you are a soldier over there covering my ass and you need anything, here is my wallet and savings! You want it, you got it!

If you work for the Govt. and are there, I'll pay to get you back.

If you are there because your company sent you there on business, I ain't paying shit! Your company can pay to get your ass outta there!

If you are there on your own accord, Fuck you! Pay your own way home! If you can afford to visit or vacation there, you can afford to pay your way back.

Jimmers

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 8:51pm

"You might want to delete the above so that this thread is not so blown out and a bitch to read.

Just a thought. "

Jesus Christ...you think all those quotes aren't blowing this thread out and making it hard to read? Damn, heed your own advise!

Looked for about 20 minutes. Bout all the time I'll take outta my life to research something of this nature. Couldn't find any statistics one way or the other. Hey maybe the article I got my stats from was one of those Liberal ghost sites that mysteriously disappears just to prove me wrong.
Guess John Boy wins ;) <Jonnys bitch for the duration>
Let me bow down. [smiley=bow.gif] LOFL

Regardless, My point still stands.
Terrorism is a tactic. You cannot win a war against a tactic. So saying that there is a "War On Terrorism" seems kinda stupid in the first place.
There are more people willing to wear a suicide vest over there than there are vests...Israel should nuke em and end it! Worked for the US in WWII [smiley=yikes.gif]

damn yankees 8)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:04pm

on 07/19/06 at 20:51:06, Dissident wrote:

Nope, my advice was to get a handle on your post so we didnt have to use slide bars to read the damn page.

BTW: We dont prove each other wrong here so we can call someone OUR bitch, if your right or wrong you just say it and deal with it!

If you were my bitch you would be sucking my dick.....do you get the difference?

You need to slow the fuck down....you came out of the gate with something up your ass and that wont last.....you hear me?...I hear me!!!!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:12pm

Man I'm not even gonna argue with you...fuck it.

Making a joke about this bitch thing...have a beer and chill the fuck out!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:18pm

Nice edit job there...tell someone to suck your dick then delete the post...nice....too bad you were too slow on the draw, some of us do pay attention to what people say. If you can't handle it, flush your computer down the toilet, buy an Etch-E-Sketch and go f...never mind.

In these parts, even if we disagree we respect each other.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:20pm

Heres a fun one folks....I guess he has not been here for years reading or he never would have sent this!

on 07/19/06 at 21:14:10, dissident wrote:

Let me tell you something buddy. I might be newly registered here but I'll tell you this old timer...don't ever talk to me like I'm some kind of fucking child...especially when I cracking a fucking joke! YOU HEAR ME?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:23pm

Dude what the hell is wrong with you. I wrote that message to you so as to keep this BS off the tread. Get a grip!
And I'll tell ya again...don't ever talk to me like I'm a fucking child ya hippie!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:24pm

Hey Charlie and Flo...pass the popcorn... [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:29pm

on 07/19/06 at 21:23:05, Dissident wrote:

Dude what the hell is wrong with you. I wrote that message to you so as to keep this BS off the tread. Get a grip!
And I'll tell ya again...don't ever talk to me like I'm a fucking child ya hippie!

You say that you have been reading the boards for years, right?

Then you should know that I will post most anything....or are you lieing about reading the board and you are just a jerkoff with a board up your ass?

Im going to bed....lets hope the family lets you live......LMAO ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:32pm

Go to the "where we live" section (Florida). Look for William Stroupe. I've been reading this board off and on since then. Thank ya very much!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:35pm

Dude, do yourself a favor...no one cares how long you have been reading, posting or lurking on the boards...time does not equal credibility. HTH YMMV

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:41pm

TomK,
Not that it's any of your bidness but...
One thing I'm not is a liar. I was trying to show Jonny that I'm just a jerkoff with a board up my ass, not a liar.
Now enough with this petty ass BS! Move on already! ;)
And I deleted that post because I didn't think It was appropriate. Get it right...I didn't tell anyone to suck my d&ck...just responded to jonnys above comment.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:49pm

<yawn>

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jul 19^th, 2006, 9:54pm

on 07/19/06 at 21:20:32, Jonny wrote:

Heres a fun one folks....I guess he has not been here for years reading or he never would have sent this!

He wouldnt?

Why not?

B$

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Ghost on Jul 20^th, 2006, 9:08am

on 07/19/06 at 16:30:52, JeffB wrote:

Hell, the French and Italians were Johny on the spot to get their folks.

I gotta add the French have alot of practice evacuating dangerous areas though including France! [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] ;;D

Mike

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by rickyshot on Jul 20^th, 2006, 9:32am

on 07/19/06 at 16:25:56, Jackie wrote:

You tell em Jackie. I LOVE you.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 20^th, 2006, 12:39pm

Quote:

As to Israel....I say they need to keep doing what they're doing. They'll kick hell out of the terriorist (or what ever we choose to call them this time) just like they always do. They are really good at taking care of their own........somebody has been trying to kill them since the begining of time and can't get it done. Hezbollah chicken sh*ts won't get it done either. Go Israel!!

Yeah, keep shelling and strafing the Christian areas of Lebanon. After all, they are all terrurrists, too. Kick the hell out of that St. Therese Catholic hospital. Glad you hit that Greek Orthodox church with a phosphorous missile (a weapon illegal under international law). Only a terrorist would need those dairies that were attacked.

Hezbollah and Israel are both quick to kill innocent civilians if it suits their purpose. Israel has shown it is much stronger and can kill civilians at 10x the rate of Hezbollah. If Israel were only attacking Hezbollah, then I wouldn't give a shit. But they are attacking the entire country. Blowing up bridges everywhere, strafing cars on the road, attacking all sea and air ports, targetting urban areas far from the border. That goes beyond any idea of self defense - they are trying to destroy a country and reignite a civil war. If Israel were only attacking military targets in the south, there would be no need to evacuate 10,000 Americans.

This week, Israel is also celebrating the 60th anniversary of their independence movement, which was kicked off with the bombing of the King David Hotel, which killed nearly 100 civilians. That's right - people in Israel are celebrating the fact that their struggle to have a country was started by killing civilians. I guess that those civilians shouldn't have been staying in a hotel owned by the British enemy, so maybe they weren't really innocent after all.

Quote:

As Israel wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine. They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,173-2277717,00.html

And has anyone here stopped to think what might happen to their friends, neighbors, or family stationed in Iraq due to carnage in Lebanon? So far, the Shiites in Iraq have been pretty quiet and have largely acquiesed with the American occupation - most of the shiites there have assumed that they will take power through the promise of democracy and that the US will eventually leave. So they sit on their hands and work within the system. If they get really pissed over the US support for Israel's slaughter of fellow shiites in Lebanon as they become frustrated at the innability of the occupation forces to prevent sunni attacks on them, then things might really heat up there, and a price would be paid in American blood. So stop cheering at the murders you see on the TV. Stop pretending that the cycle of violence started ten days ago, or that one side is good - they are both tainted with blood. Stop pretending that it is in America's interest or consistent with our principles to support the carnage.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Bob P on Jul 20^th, 2006, 1:39pm

Quote:

Very idealistic view of war..
Of course you take out all modes of transportation to eliminate your enemies ability to re-supply. No more Iranian planes landing at the airport and off loading missiles or trucking supplies from Syria.

Try pinpointing a target with a 155mm unguided shell from 25 miles away!

Christian areas? You mean when they blasted the truck with the drilling rig that looked like a rocket launcher.

War ain’t pretty! Innocents get killed. At least Israel dropped leaflets telling the people to get out before the shelled. The Hezbulloks didn’t dive the Israelis’ the same courtesy before they started firing missiles at them and kidnapping their soldiers.

I truely hope Israel continues to ignore calls for a ceasefire until they've swept Hexbullock and Hamass completely out of the country.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by seasonalboomer on Jul 20^th, 2006, 1:43pm

on 07/20/06 at 12:39:47, floridian wrote:

Stop pretending that it is in America's interest or consistent with our principles to support the carnage.

I'm not sure I could really say what our principles are. The more educated I get about everything, the less clear it becomes. Till one day you realize that it might come down to picking a side and fighting for it. What does seem clear is that any idea that man "progresses" beyond tribalism to some form semblance of understanding of other tribes is a fallacy.

scott

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 20^th, 2006, 2:22pm

on 07/20/06 at 13:39:19, Bob P wrote:

Very idealistic view of war..
...
Try pinpointing a target with a 155mm unguided shell from 25 miles away!

Christian areas? You mean when they blasted the truck with the drilling rig that looked like a rocket launcher.

And you have a very idealistic view of what Israel is doing.

Beruit is 100 miles from the border, not 25. And it isn't being hit by artillery shells, but by bombs and missiles launched from airplanes that are in Beirut.

Christian areas like a drilling rig? No, churches and hospitals and apartment buildings in Christian neighborhoods far from any taint of Hezbollah. What part of St. Therese Hospital dont you understand? What part of St. George's Church is unclear to you?

Hezbollah kidnapping two soldiers was just an excuse to launch an all-out war against Lebanon. In the first phase, Israel pretended they were trying to target Hezbollah, but since then, Lebanon has become a free-fire zone. Half a million people displaced, which will probably go up over a million.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Bob P on Jul 20^th, 2006, 2:33pm

Quote:

And you have a very idealistic view of what Israel is doing.

Beruit is 100 miles from the border, not 25. And it isn't being hit by artillery shells, but by bombs and missiles launched from airplanes that are in Beirut.

Christian areas like a drilling rig? No, churches and hospitals and apartment buildings in Christian neighborhoods far from any taint of Hezbollah. What part of St. Therese Hospital dont you understand? What part of St. George's Church is unclear to you?

Hezbollah kidnapping two soldiers was just an excuse to launch an all-out war against Lebanon. In the first phase, Israel pretended they were trying to target Hezbollah, but since then, Lebanon has become a free-fire zone. Half a million people displaced, which will probably go up over a million.

Yep. What part of war don't you understand?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BarbaraD on Jul 20^th, 2006, 2:37pm

I, personally, think we should mind our own business and NOT take sides in this. The Jews and Arabs have been fighting since time began and will be fighting when we're all dead and gone, so I think we should just let 'em go at it and stay out of it.

Of course I also think we should hang all the politicians in Washington (DC that is -- I'm not to the states yet). Those idiots are so far removed from the real world - they NEED to be put out of their misery.

If we don't get out of everyone else's business we're headed for a WW111 and this one won't be pretty.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Bob P on Jul 20^th, 2006, 2:47pm

I think we should be helping Israel. These are the same hezbollocks who blew up the marine barracks and killed hundreds of our boys! We are at war with terrorists aren't we?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Ghost on Jul 20^th, 2006, 2:56pm

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060720/481/be26ab35087a463c840bb7a0bfde1e34

This is kinda cool.

Oh and the "phosphorous missile (a weapon illegal under international law)" try again not only not illegal but widely used. Yes even by us. White Phosphorous better know as willie peter or WP is used in weapons, road flares, even sparklers and matches.

Good luck with you world of peace.

Mike

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 20^th, 2006, 3:02pm

on 07/20/06 at 14:56:19, Ghost wrote:

Depends on the form of phosphorous and how it is used - wp for generating smoke - not considered illegal. As an incinderary used in a civilian area, definitely illegal.

Thanks for the good vibes - hoping they reverberate round the world. 8)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 20^th, 2006, 3:41pm

Does anyone remember the mouse story that PL259 posted a while back?

If not read it again – or for the first time

For those of you that think we should do nothing and mind our own business. If you think that we are not a target, you are wrong. Sit and do nothing, and when we are sitting around reading the Koran because we have no choice, and no rights. You can wonder SILENTLY why we did not do something when we had the chance.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Bob P on Jul 20^th, 2006, 4:13pm

Quote:

WASHINGTON — The House, displaying a foreign affairs solidarity lacking on issues like Iraq, voted overwhelmingly Thursday to support Israel in its confrontation with Hezbollah guerrillas.

The resolution, which was passed on a 410-8 vote, also condemns enemies of the Jewish state.

Looks like the House of Rep got their shit together! Should we guess who the 8 no votes were?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 20^th, 2006, 4:33pm

on 07/20/06 at 16:13:05, Bob P wrote:

Should we guess who the 8 no votes were?

Ok, could one of them be, Fatboy? ;;D

http://www.fatboy.cc/

And another one be, Liveshot? ;;D

http://www.liveshot.cc/

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 20^th, 2006, 4:48pm

on 07/20/06 at 14:33:36, Bob P wrote:

Yep. What part of war don't you understand?

X2! The whole point of war is to kill more of them than they kill of you and break more of their stuff than they break of yours. I don't know when it changed but during WWII, we killed 22 Japanese to every 1 American killed. That included civilians. Some where people forgot that civilians get killed in war...it sucks but it happens. Doesn't Israel have the right to defend their people? Flo, you act like they have no right to get at the people who kidnapped their soliders and blew up their Humvee. If a group of people broke into your home and kidnapped your wife, would you care which one in particular did it or would you go after the lot of them? But then again, from reading all your posts, you would probably try to negotiate with them for her release...since killing in any means is bad... ::) I can totally understand why Israel took this measure. It must get pretty tiring worrying about whether or not the bus you are on is going to blow up, or if that kid standing next to you has a Symtec vest on...

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by maffumatt on Jul 20^th, 2006, 4:54pm

not to mention the daily rocket attacks and suicide bombings they have endured year after year. They said in 1949 Never Again, and they meant it. When you commit an act of war don't be surprised if war is what you get.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Bob P on Jul 20^th, 2006, 5:16pm

Jonny - the House not the Senate. You gotta quit posting pics of them two. Having been a river rat in Nam it makes my skin crawl to look at that traitor!

But 7 Democrats and 1 Republican voted nay.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 20^th, 2006, 5:20pm

on 07/20/06 at 17:16:55, Bob P wrote:

Jonny - the House not the Senate.

I know that, I just wanted to post those links.....LMAO [smiley=laugh.gif]

Picture deleted so the skin stays smoooooth, Bro ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by FRANKYT1963 on Jul 20^th, 2006, 8:29pm

[smiley=finger.gif] [smiley=finger.gif] IF YOU GO TO AN UNSTABLE COUNTRY AND HOSTILITIES BREAK OUT, YOU SHOULD BE BILLED FOR THE MILITARYS TIME TO COME AND GET YOUR STUPID!!!!!!!!!!ASS [smiley=looser.gif] [smiley=looser.gif] [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 20^th, 2006, 8:35pm

The lock caps key is on the left ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BarbaraD on Jul 20^th, 2006, 8:54pm

on 07/20/06 at 15:41:55, Gena wrote:

For those of you that think we should do nothing and mind our own business. If you think that we are not a target, you are wrong. Sit and do nothing, and when we are sitting around reading the Koran because we have no choice, and no rights. You can wonder SILENTLY why we did not do something when we had the chance.

I'm not saying "do nothing". We just can't fight everyone's wars. We need to be protecting our own borders (and that's not being done). Yes, we are targets and OUR country should be protected HERE! We're so scattered out around the world right now that we'd be shooting ducks if someone wanted to attack us (Korea for instance).

If we'd tighten up on our immigration laws, stop the border crossings (English required!) and worry about OUR people as much as we worry about third world countries and democracy around the world, we'd just be a lot better off. I frankly don't care if kids get educated in Iraq, but I do care about education in THIS country (and it sucks big time).

The people who came here for freedom a couple hundred years ago didn't worry about what the rest of the world was doing - they just wanted what was RIGHT for this country and fought like the devil to obtain the freedom we take for granted. Holding grudges doesn't do anything but cause more conflict.

Today we're all so touchy about anyone resembling an Arab -- they're all terrorist, right? Had we had some "workable" immigration laws in effect on 9-11, it probably would not have occurred. But we can't hate all Arabs (or Muslins - I'm not PC) because of a few WE let in and didn't keep up with. Now we're saying we're watching all these cells. Now everyone in this country is open game for "spying" because it's necessary for our safety. BS!!! We're trying to promote democracy in other parts of the world while whittling away at our own.

I'm of Irish heritage, so therefore should I hate all Brits cause Ireland and England have had a feud going since time began? Should we continue to hate Germans because of what Hitler did? And don't forget the Italians -- they did some pretty mean things to us during WW11. MAybe instead of rending money and troops in Japan we should just hate them also.

Sorry that wasn't meant to be nasty, but we just can't go on like we're going and not destroy our country.

Hugs BD

There's an old saying (probably said by Caesar or someone back then) that Women will always hate war, but men will continue to fight. (or something like that).

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 20^th, 2006, 9:15pm

on 07/20/06 at 20:54:18, BarbaraD wrote:

Today we're all so touchy about anyone resembling an Arab -- they're all terrorist, right?

No, but when I see an 80 year old women being pulled aside for an EXTRA search while a olive complex guy strolls on through the security......it tells me that something is seriously frigging wrong!

Profile?......you God damn right, whens the last time an Israelie airplane was hijacked?

Love you, Mom :-*

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 20^th, 2006, 10:35pm

When someone starts sending rockets into US cities you will realise what Israel is dealing with.

Flo will be hiding under the bed while the rest of us retaleate.

Any spiders under there, Flo?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 20^th, 2006, 10:36pm

on 07/20/06 at 16:48:22, Tom K wrote:

If your wife were kidnapped by a gang, would you start shooting gang members, suspected gang members, and LOTS of people who lived in the same neighborhood as the gang members? I guess it depends: Do you really want to get her back alive?

They have every right to get at the people who kidnapped their soldiers, and those that are launching rockets. But they are going far beyond that. Some key ideas that seem to escape you are proportionality, directed force, and strategy.

Hezbollah was nothing in Lebanon until the Israeli occupation. But in those years of brutality, Hezbollah gained followers because they stood up to Israel, and eventually Israel pulled out without achieving their objectives. Sure, Hezzbollah are a bunch of fundamentalist azzholes, they don't value the lives of civilians, but they gained followers because Israel did the same thing in occupying Lebanon, and they were fighting that.

Most Lebanese don't like Hezbollah, but Israels attacks on the innocent are a great recruiting drive for Hezbollah. Kill lots of people's relatives, damage the economy, while Hezbollah takes a few losses but shows no sign of being weakened because they are a guerilla force, most of their weapons and people are not on the battlefield at any moment. It's a brilliant plan, I tell you. And fifty years from now, things will be the same.

Here's an idea: lets forget about charging Americans $200 for a boat ride out of harms way, and start charging Israelis for the $2.5 billion in weapons that we give them every year. Is paying for their armory the responsibility of the American taxpayer?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by maffumatt on Jul 20^th, 2006, 10:44pm

What should they do Flo If you was the PM and answered to the people there. Trade 3 solders for 1500 terrorist with blood on their hands ? Do nothing ? I am very courious.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 20^th, 2006, 10:45pm

on 07/20/06 at 22:36:16, floridian wrote:

Hell no....they can keep her, she will drive them to kill themselves with her bitching ;;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by jimmers on Jul 20^th, 2006, 10:50pm

Here's a better idea Flo. Since you have all the reasons that we should not be there or involved in any way, why don't you grab a plane ticket to the middle east and talk to them and straighten all this shit out! Obviously you have all the answers. I say "Black" you say "White" I say "Up" you say "Down" Whatever!

Bla Bla Bla!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 21^st, 2006, 12:12am

on 07/20/06 at 22:44:10, maffumatt wrote:

What should they do Flo If you was the PM and answered to the people there. Trade 3 solders for 1500 terrorist with blood on their hands ? Do nothing ? I am very courious.

What would I do? First I would look for a strategy that might work.

For a long time, the Israeli strategy was "We don't negotiate with terrorists, and if one of ours is captured, we consider them dead." Memorial services were held for POWs. But families were unable to pretend for decades that their sons were dead while in fact they were prisoners. That strategy didn't work, and was abandoned.

The second strategy was "OK, we will negotiate and swap prisoners." And since Israelis are worth so much more than the enemy, we will trade 100 or 1000 of them for one of us. This made captured Israelis very valuable, and is a strong incentive to go out and snag a few. Which brings us to the recent kidnappings, which caused Israel to abandon that strategy.

So now the strategy is "Blast Em." No one apparently thought this one through, either. Every bomb, missile and artillery shell directed at a suspected Hezbollah safe house increases the chance that Israel will kill their own soldiers, the ones that they say they want to get back. The tougher they are, the more they blast em, the more likely that they will defeat their own stated purpose. And of course, the misery they are imposing on people that have nothing to do with the kidnapping only sows the seeds for a new generation of enemies.

on 07/20/06 at 22:50:24, jimmers wrote:

Well, to start, let me completely disagree with you. You are unable to read or comprehend what I have written. I never said that we should not be involved in any way.

Historically, the US has served as a mediator in the Middle East. We can work to reconcile the parties, to help things from spinning out of hand, to make things better. Or we can tell Israel to keep blasting em for another week or two (hope you don't kill the 2 prisoners yourself), and then we will step in and help negotiate (if things don't spin further out of control). The role of mediator isn't easy, but there have been successes, including preserving the state of Israel, and the Egypt-Israel peace process. Egypt used to be the bad-boy on the block, had the biggest army, was the boogey man credited with every bit of unrest. But the US convinced the two countries to get over their reluctance to talk, to compromise, and today there is no concern over a war between those two neighbors.

Somebody said something about having to choose sides. I don't think we do. We are a superpower, we have our own interests, and we dont have to be either 100% pro-Israel or 100% pro-whatever. We don't have to think like the conflict is ours - it isn't. We can call it like it is - none of the parties to the conflict are saints. Its dangerous to pretend otherwise.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Charlie on Jul 21^st, 2006, 3:50am

Most of you are younger than I. Younger people historically have been quicker than old farts like me to do the right thing. That being said, most of you post that it would have been fine if we let 9 year old children of displaced Americans, who were in many cases, hauled to this unstable area to work, sit in the line of fire until their families came up with bucks. I've never seen anything like it. Fortunately, cooler heads have reluctanly prevailed. That it was even mentioned as a possibility boggles the mind. Maybe this comes from Rush Limbaugh or some other radio screecher. I hope it's something like that. I can almost understand where such an idea would originate. I'm dumbfounded at the respnse on the board. Our country is what it is because we take care of our own and are known for going out of our way to at least give people a shot at a decent life. You do not strand your own countrymen in such a place because they behaved dumbly or in some cases, out of necessity because it's cool to be a tough guy. I don't want to live here if that is the case. We would lose any right to brag about our uniqueness which can be pretty damned obnoxious to others. I'd like us to have a reason to remain obnoxious. It's our thing.

As for the bloodbath in the middle east; war has a momentum that is unbelieveably hard to contain. A lot of it is rectifying bad planning and military blunders as they occur. It takes awhile to get things in proportion and well-directed....as killing can be, and in this case; identify the enemy. This tiny fraction of the populace is going to get thousands of innocents maimed and killed because of the addition of technology to ancient conflicts. Israel is a dangerous enemy. I can't say I blame them for self defense and a good case can be made for using one of the best armies in the world. I don't like it but it's nothing new, but on television. A good portion of the victims don't get to see how much fun cable news is having.

Not all that long ago, the Israelis pretty much took out Beirut. The world was more defined east and west then. It worked for a time. Courses of action were limited to what we and the Soviets wanted. It's no longer the case and our limitations are evident as never before. I don't think the kind of mobilization of which we are capable, is something Americans need right now. It's a different world today and like it or not, we are going to have to be a part of it. Isolationism is dangerous for the whole world. We have to get used to the idea that we are now vulnerable. We aren't used to it and not yet good at dealing with it. It's going to take time and someone that is less interested in politics than making war on ourselves. If the the current war is going badly, you bomb the press. It's been true for decades. We are seeing it evey day and we are on the edge of becoming something we don't ever want to be.

The world needs critical thinking, not some simplistic fantasies that have never worked.

Charlie

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by karma on Jul 21^st, 2006, 7:39am

Quote:

That being said, most of you post that it would have been fine if we let 9 year old children of displaced Americans, who were in many cases, hauled to this unstable area to work, sit in the line of fire until their families came up with bucks.

Nobody has said its OK to leave U.S. citizens in harms way. Its not!!
What I was bitching about is Amercian citizens knowingly and willingly going to an area of unrest without thinking about the possibility that they may need to get out real fast, then bitching that the U.S. Government isn't fast enough or prepared enough to evacuate them.
If I had been in the area with my family you can bet we would have been gone at the first signs of trouble. But then thats just me.
This fight has been brewing for years. Nobody should be surprised that it has finally reached this point.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Kirk on Jul 21^st, 2006, 8:03am

If memory serves. The first time we had to get our citizens asses out of the Middle East was in 1805 (Tripoli), and its still a good idea. Our folks don't always make the best of choices. But they are ours.
United we stand.

Semper Fi [smiley=smokin.gif]

Sometimes it is just that simple.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Ghost on Jul 21^st, 2006, 8:07am

Well all said and done true the U.S. was a little delayed retrieving their flock, and yes there was the possability to be charged to get them home, but when they did arrive in full force and assessed the situation they sent in Navy and Marines to retrieve the Citizens yes at no charge and getting them home. Again true we didnt react as fast as France but then again France has always been fast at leaving a hostile area. ;;D [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
Sorry had to throw that in. By law the evacuation could have costed the folks price +1.00 to get home to be billed later by law, as was the case for the non embassy folks in Siagon in 1972 and those in Panama in the 80's, but unlike now some of them where billed where as now no bill to follow. Karma and others stated correctly the region/area has been a hot bed for years and the possability of this happening was always high. If someone took the chance and lost well then they should have no complaints about being billed or the conditions of the crowded boat to safety.
Well I am done with for now.

Mike

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Gena on Jul 21^st, 2006, 8:48am

on 07/21/06 at 03:50:44, Charlie wrote:

Charlie - I never said that they should not have been provided transportation. I also never said the bill had to be paid first, before they got on the boat. If once they are safe back on American soil they recieve a bill from the govt, or they get 200 dollors deducted from there tax return, I said that I think that is more then fair!!!! Not that it maters anymore anyway! They got their Free ride.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by john_d on Jul 21^st, 2006, 9:14am

Awesome post...you are a smart mofo

on 07/21/06 at 03:50:44, Charlie wrote:

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Woobie on Jul 21^st, 2006, 9:29am

on 07/19/06 at 15:14:07, Gena wrote:

you call that right - Cheese and rice. ::)

Namby Pamby Winney Libs :P

Did you say CHEESE n RICE???

LMAO!!

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 21^st, 2006, 10:23am

on 07/20/06 at 22:45:46, Jonny wrote:

Hell no....they can keep her, she will drive them to kill themselves with her bitching ;;;D

LOL - You need to think like a kidnapper. How about a ball-gag?? In a pinch, use duct tape.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 21^st, 2006, 10:59am

I was home all day yesterday with a headache, did I miss anything?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Charlie on Jul 21^st, 2006, 12:34pm

Quote:

I was home all day yesterday with a headache, did I miss anything?

http://www.industreal.spb.ru/smiles/writing.gif http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/standart/swoon2.gif?SSImageQuality=Full

Charlie
http://smiles.ru/coll/dark/tiho.gif?SSImageQuality=Full

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jul 21^st, 2006, 12:40pm

on 07/20/06 at 22:45:46, Jonny wrote:

Hell no....they can keep her, she will drive them to kill themselves with her bitching ;;;D

[smiley=laugh.gif]

Gotta love them wife jokes!

Wifey could make the terrorists get extremely bad headaches too.

[smiley=crackup.gif]

B$

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 21^st, 2006, 1:40pm

on 07/21/06 at 10:23:02, floridian wrote:

LOL - You need to think like a kidnapper. How about a ball-gag?? In a pinch, use duct tape.

Dont forget the nipple clamps hooked up to the car battery....LOL ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by seasonalboomer on Jul 21^st, 2006, 1:46pm

on 07/21/06 at 13:40:22, Jonny wrote:

Dont forget the nipple clamps hooked up to the car battery....LOL ;;D

Hell, I know guys that had something like that clipped to their testicles so they could be initiated into a fraternity in college. What are they whinin about?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 21^st, 2006, 1:56pm

on 07/21/06 at 13:46:08, seasonalboomer wrote:

Hell, I know guys that had something like that clipped to their testicles so they could be initiated into a fraternity in college. What are they whinin about?

Yeah, its a real scream to listen to ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 21^st, 2006, 1:59pm

Who's High Pitch????????? lol
One must take care of ones balls!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by maffumatt on Jul 21^st, 2006, 2:32pm

on 07/21/06 at 00:12:29, floridian wrote:

I still don't see what you would do. First they did nothing, then they negotiated, then they blasted them. What else is left?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 21^st, 2006, 2:49pm

They want to live like they're in the stone age so lets help them achieve that goal. Israel has been through enough, lets give em' 4 or 5 MOABs then sit back and enjoy! ;)

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Charlie on Jul 21^st, 2006, 3:05pm

If we must get back to this; I think this is pretty good:

http://select.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/opinion/19friedman.html?th&emc=th

Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/sissy fight.gif

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by maffumatt on Jul 21^st, 2006, 4:13pm

Sorry Charlie I couldn't read it, I am not a subscriber to the NYT. Can you do a cut and paste for us?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 21^st, 2006, 4:41pm

on 07/21/06 at 14:32:20, maffumatt wrote:

I still don't see what you would do. First they did nothing, then they negotiated, then they blasted them. What else is left?

I would listen to Pope Benedict's call for Israel to "return to the path of reason" and "open dialogue."

The fact that one negotiation failed doesn't mean that all negotiations are doomed to fail.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Ghost on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:03pm

They are terrorist they dont negotiate they had 6years to get out they stayed and gathered more weapons. They like Iran want 1 thing total destruction of Isreal first then all Infidells. No I am not saying all Muslims want that just the extremest. You know the ones with the Chinese Missles that where sold to Iran, upgraded, then shipped to Syria, then sold to Hezbolah in southern Lebanon. Maybe we should have negotated with the terrorist that blew up the USS Cole then they wouldn't have attacked us here.Give me a Break!

Mike

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:10pm

on 07/21/06 at 16:41:13, floridian wrote:

The fact that one negotiation failed doesn't mean that all negotiations are doomed to fail.

In this case it means your dead if you sit on your hands waiting for the mean people to make nice.

Im glad you hold no office what so ever.....even Dubba has more balls than you....LOL ;;D

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Charlie on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:16pm

Sorry Matt. I wasn't thinking. Here goes:

Not So Smart
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

July 19, 2006

Profiles of the Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah always describe him as the most “brilliant” or “strategic” Arab player. I beg to differ. When the smoke clears, Nasrallah will be remembered as the most foolhardy Arab leader since Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser miscalculated his way into the Six-Day War.

Yes, yes, I know. I am a too-rational Westerner. I don’t understand the Eastern mind and the emotional victory that Nasrallah will reap from all this pain. It isn’t whether you win or lose; it’s whether you kill Jews. Well, maybe — but, ultimately, wars are fought for political ends. An accounting will be rendered, so let’s do some math.

First, Nasrallah has set back the whole fledgling Arab democracy movement. That movement, by the way, was being used by Islamist parties — like Hezbollah and Hamas — to peacefully ascend to power. Hezbollah, for the first time, had two ministers in the Lebanese cabinet. Hamas, through a U.S.-sponsored election, took over the Palestinian Authority. And in both cases, as well as in Iraq, these Islamist parties were allowed to sit in government and maintain their own militias outside.

What both Hamas and Nasrallah have done — by dragging their nations into unnecessary wars with Israel — is to prove that Islamists will not be made more accountable by political power. Just the opposite; not only will they not fix the potholes, they will start wars, whenever they choose, that will lead to even bigger potholes.

Does this mean Hamas and Hezbollah will never get another vote? Of course not. Their followers will always follow. What it does mean is that if the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, or Islamists in Jordan or the gulf, had any hopes of taking power through electoral means, they can forget about it. I don’t see their governments ever allowing elections that might bring Islamist parties to power, and I don’t see the U.S. promoting any more elections in the region, for now. The Arab democracy experiment is on hold — because if Islamist parties can’t be trusted to rule, elections can’t be trusted to be held.

All Arab dictators say, “Thank you, Nasrallah.”

On the peace front, let’s see, Israel gets out of Lebanon and Gaza, and what is the response of Hamas and Hezbollah? Build schools, roads and jobs in their recovered territories? Nope. Respect the border with Israel, but demand that Israel continue to withdraw from the West Bank? Nope. The response is to shell Israel from Gaza and abduct Israeli soldiers from Lebanon. Hamas and Nasrallah replaced the formula “land for peace” with “land for war,” said the former Mideast envoy Dennis Ross.

In doing so, they have ensured that no Israeli government is going to unilaterally withdraw from the West Bank and risk rockets on Tel Aviv. Nasrallah and Hamas have brought “strategic territorial depth” back to Israeli thinking. All West Bank Jewish settlers say, “Thank you, Nasrallah.”

But let’s assume Nasrallah doesn’t care about democracy or a Palestinian state. He has to care about his own standing. His adventures have led to the devastation of his people — what is happening to Lebanon is a terrible tragedy — with relatively little damage to Israel. He launched a war on behalf of Iran that ruined his people, and the best outcome he can expect is a cease-fire that requires Hezbollah to move away from the Israeli border.

Moreover, Iran gave Nasrallah missiles to deter any Western or Israeli attack on Iran’s nuclear program. By frivolously playing their missile card now, Hezbollah and Iran have exposed and weakened Iran’s deterrent. Really dumb.

Can America capitalize on Nasrallah’s foolishness? To me, the big strategic chess move is to try to split Syria off from Iran, and bring Damascus back into the Sunni Arab fold. That is the game-changer. What would be the Syrian price? I don’t know, but I sure think it would be worth finding out. After all, Syria hosts Hamas’s leadership in Damascus. It is the land bridge between Hezbollah and Iran, without which Hezbollah can’t survive. And it is the safe haven for the Baathist insurgents in Iraq.

Yes, we have a lot to discuss with Syria. And so do the Saudis, the Egyptians and the Jordanians, who are worried that Syria is paving the way for an Iranian-Shiite takeover of Arab politics.

I’d sure be interested to know if Damascus would respond to a U.S.-Saudi overture, like the one that got Libya to give up its nukes, and come over from the dark side. Unlikely, to be sure, but if the Bush team had the smarts to pull it off — also unlikely — it would be the mother of all defeats for Iran and Nasrallah.

Tom Freidman is one of their middle east best reporters.

Charlie

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by maffumatt on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:21pm

Charlie there isn't anything in that post I disagree with......Good Post

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by floridian on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:35pm

on 07/21/06 at 17:10:02, Jonny wrote:

In this case it means your dead if you sit on your hands waiting for the mean people to make nice.

Im glad you hold no office what so ever.....even Dubba has more balls than you....LOL ;;D

Jonny,

I have been wondering if we are -really- different from each other since that day when we were sitting on the porch drinking cold ones. When those two dogs started fighting, I said "Excuse me" and went around back to get a hose. When I get back, there you were: down on all fours, in the thick of the dog fight all wild eye and snarly. You seemed shocked when the cold water hit you, but trust me: it was for your own good.

You got balls, you got that fighting spirit, you just lack a little in the brains department. Pat Buchanan hit the nail on the head when he said:

Quote:

That Tel Aviv is maneuvering us to fight its wars is understandable. That Americans are ignorant of, or complicit in this, is deplorable.

Already, Bush is ranting about Syria being behind the Hezbollah capture of the Israeli soldiers. But where is the proof?

Who is whispering in his ear? The same people who told him Iraq was maybe months away from an atom bomb, that an invasion would be a "cakewalk," that he would be Churchill, that U.S. troops would be greeted with candy and flowers, that democracy would break out across the region, that Palestinians and Israelis would then sit down and make peace?

How much must America pay for the education of this man?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/pat_buchanan20060719

We can think about our own interests and use a hose, or we can be the fools that rush into someone elses fight. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

Have a good weekend, y'all.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Charlie on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:45pm

There's something compelling to the theory that we are in a proxy war with Iran in this case. Haven't read too much about it though. http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/standart/read.gif?SSImageQuality=Full

Charlie

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Jonny on Jul 21^st, 2006, 5:46pm

on 07/21/06 at 17:35:45, floridian wrote:

And then you woke up, right?....LMAO ;;D

If and when we do meet we will have cold ones and we wont be talking about this crap......if you do I will have to smack ya....LOL :-*

Have a good weekend, Bro!!

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Kevin_M on Jul 21^st, 2006, 6:14pm

on 07/21/06 at 17:16:07, Charlie wrote:

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

July 19, 2006

What both Hamas and Nasrallah have done...
...not only will they not fix the potholes, they will start wars, whenever they choose, that will lead to even bigger potholes.

...and what is the response of Hamas and Hezbollah? Build schools, roads and jobs in their recovered territories? Nope.

These are two sad points that I found a similar opinion with.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by maffumatt on Jul 21^st, 2006, 6:17pm

I wonder why holding 2 soldiers are so worthwhile to Hezbollah, even though they know that if they realeased them the fighting would stop. I can understand Isreal not giving a damn about the Leboneese, but why would Hezbollah bring this destruction on their own people for no reason?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Paul98 on Jul 21^st, 2006, 7:29pm

on 07/21/06 at 18:17:16, maffumatt wrote:

Hezbollahs' ability to rally support is dirived from altercation against Isreal and fomenting hatred towards Jews. Without the "cause" they would have no "glue" to hold them together. I really think peace is their enemy.

-P.

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by JeffB on Jul 21^st, 2006, 7:32pm

Begining of WWIII?

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Tom K on Jul 21^st, 2006, 8:01pm

on 07/21/06 at 19:32:28, JeffB wrote:

Begining of WWIII?

Because Iran and Syria have been waiting for this to start so they could jump in. Diplomacy, while a nice thought, is never going to work in the region. How many "Peace Summits" are going to be tried? They didn't work with Arafat(sp) in charge. Maybe Israel is following an old Southern anecdote..."If every time you eat green beans, you shit your pants, you figure it out..." Israel needs to stop fawking around and just level the region. Maybe then everyone would stop trying to fawk with them...

Title: Re: Some State Department
Post by Dissident on Jul 21^st, 2006, 10:58pm

OH lordy...this thing is still going??? Now I have to go back and read three friggin pages to catch up!