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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> Your opinion on the media.......
        
(Message started by: BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 28th, 2006, 12:09am)
Title: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 28th, 2006, 12:09am
What do yous think about the media describing how Mr Tucker from Madras, Oregon was killed?  Do you think it is appropriate or needed for the media to say how the person was tortured, which limbs were cut off and how long he may have been tortured for?

Of course the family has the right to know, and the military should tell them if they want to know....in private.

I do not think that it is necessary for broadcasters and print media to explain the torture to the general public.  I think it is disrespectful to the family and to people like me that would prefer not to know the details.
What do yous think?
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Richr8 on Jun 28th, 2006, 12:43am
I agree.  Killed in action would cover it for me.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by karma on Jun 28th, 2006, 8:39am
The media's goal is to sell papers or secure viewers.
Raise hell with them about gory details and they will tell you those were their most popular articles of the day.
Who's fault is it?
Quality has nothing to do with it, it's a business.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Mattrf on Jun 28th, 2006, 10:53am
The media is so left wing it is despicable, they are not and have never been neutral and are running there own agenda. They feel we should get out of the war and think by parading the gore in front of us and dishonoring our solders and there families it will make us want to get out of the war. We all know war is hell and that people die and none of us want that but some times it is the right thing to do. Now you can give me a load of crap about my view and that is your right but one thing we can all agree on is that we do not like to see or hear about our solders being killed and hope they all will be home soon, and families should be left alone to grieve there loss and not have it on the front page of the newspaper or on the 6:00 news.

Matt
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by john_d on Jun 28th, 2006, 11:29am

on 06/28/06 at 08:39:55, karma wrote:
The media's goal is to sell papers or secure viewers.
Raise hell with them about gory details and they will tell you those were their most popular articles of the day.
Who's fault is it?
Quality has nothing to do with it, it's a business.


Exactly, they tell you what you want to hear so you will watch their commercials or buy their print.  

What drives me crazy is when they decide what the news is and THEN go and find some slim, anecdotal evidence to support it.

If you want quality, you have to leave mainstream media behind.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Gena on Jun 28th, 2006, 11:32am

on 06/28/06 at 10:53:18, Mattrf wrote:
The media is so left wing it is despicable, they are not and have never been neutral and are running there own agenda. They feel we should get out of the war and think by parading the gore in front of us and dishonoring our solders and there families it will make us want to get out of the war. We all know war is hell and that people die and none of us want that but some times it is the right thing to do. Now you can give me a load of crap about my view and that is your right but one thing we can all agree on is that we do not like to see or hear about our solders being killed and hope they all will be home soon, and families should be left alone to grieve there loss and not have it on the front page of the newspaper or on the 6:00 news.

Matt


[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

The news is nolonger what happend. It is now what they want to happen. They believe If you state it often enough - some how it becomes fact.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Mattrf on Jun 28th, 2006, 11:48am
And god forbid that they actually report something good that happened!

Matt
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Jun 28th, 2006, 11:49am
The "print" media has been in trouble for the past seven years. Nobody is purchasing Newspapers, and the circulation figures are getting worse on a daily basis...I should know as I work for the biggest in New York. The dominant radio shows are conservative.....The dominant perspective in the print media is just the opposite. I believe in Freedom of Speech, but when the printed tabloids start revealing what our military is planning , or where the NYC police believe a terrorist will hit next, do they ever think that the terrorist can't read ?! As far as giving detailed information about an American who was tortured, it can only be a ploy to sell Newspapers.......Approximately 10 years ago the State Comptroller of Pennsylvania called a press conference. It seems that he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so to speak. The Television media was there. During the press conference the Comptroller appeared very nervous and was sweating profusely. When it became apparent that the news conference was ending....he reached into a large manilla envelope, pulled out a gun and shot himself in the head. The news programs throughout the night ran the piece right up to his putting the gun to his head...then the scene froze. All except in Philadelphia where the news ran the entire ending. Then they went along with what everyone else did freezing the scene before the actual shooting....Because they showed it once several people saw the whole gruesome thing............A very disturbing ( but factual) thing is that the television station in Philadelphia received over 100,000 phone calls with 92% asking to be shown the whole suicide !  
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Mattrf on Jun 28th, 2006, 11:52am
I would much rather see a kitty being rescued from a tree, but that’s just me.

Matt
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Gena on Jun 28th, 2006, 12:02pm
dog Forbid the media print anything good that is happening in the war. There is a lot of good things happening.

But if it makes GW look good we can't print/or show it. Hell I am not his biggest fan myself, but come on!

It has gotten to the point I do not Watch news at all.

Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Mattrf on Jun 28th, 2006, 12:16pm
I agree with Gena and think that that his approval ratting would be a bit higher if the media would report the good and the bad, I mean come on, sure his approval is at an all time low, when all anyone has to go on is the negative press he gets and the media wont report anything good about the guy. Hell they could make mother Teresa look bad if they wanted.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by JeffB on Jun 28th, 2006, 12:57pm
I have no problem with them reporting those facts. I think we need to hear and read about everything that happens there. If we choose to ignore whats gruesome or horrific we will certainly lose sight of the our soldiers mission...good or bad. And I think we should watch those planes hit there targets in NY,DC, every day and listen to the voices of those minutes from death to remind us of what the world is like now. Nows not the time to cover our ears and eyes, we need to stay fired up and show the world just how much resolve we Americans have. Just my opinion.
Strength for Freedom.....USS Missouri BB-63 Sailor
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 28th, 2006, 2:12pm
It goes to show what our enemy is really like. I am actualy surprised they did tell it how it is. No human rights group or anyone els will complain his treatment.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Cathi04 on Jun 28th, 2006, 2:36pm
2 trains of thought here.......

If we are aware......if we NEVER foget these despicable acts, there is a chance we can be sure they never occur again........
that said............oh, Brian! I saw the news report, I heard the words! Imagine being an old friend, a family member or.well, anyone who might have known you.....and elearning these facts!
I agree, the family has a right to know..the country has a right to an overview, but DON"T humanize the person.don't allow thes horrendous visual images be the last the yknow of their friend/relative!
Numb, Cathi
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by brewcrew on Jun 28th, 2006, 3:01pm

on 06/28/06 at 10:53:18, Mattrf wrote:
The media is so left wing it is despicable, they are not and have never been neutral and are running there own agenda. They feel we should get out of the war and think by parading the gore in front of us and dishonoring our solders and there families it will make us want to get out of the war. We all know war is hell and that people die and none of us want that but some times it is the right thing to do. Now you can give me a load of crap about my view and that is your right but one thing we can all agree on is that we do not like to see or hear about our solders being killed and hope they all will be home soon, and families should be left alone to grieve there loss and not have it on the front page of the newspaper or on the 6:00 news.

Matt


Matt, I would only disagree with one thing:

"they are not and have never been neutral"

I think that perhaps at one time they were neutral, but it was way before any of us roamed the earth.

Then they evolved into jackals.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by fubar on Jun 28th, 2006, 3:12pm
If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own.

-Scoop
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Mattrf on Jun 28th, 2006, 3:42pm
If we made are own news we would have to do something that would get us thrown in jail in order for it to make the news or the paper, I for one would rather stay out of jail, but that’s just me. [smiley=laugh.gif]

Matt
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Jonny on Jun 28th, 2006, 3:49pm
Ladies and gentlemen, I am talking to you from behind the golden "EIB" microphone and broadcasting from high atop the "EIB" building.

EIB= Erection In-a Bottle ;;D
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Sean_C on Jun 28th, 2006, 4:08pm
The thread should be focusing more on the point at hand of our servicemen and women. We have prisoners of war at GB. They get fed, they have shelter, they get to pray to thier God, the have clean facility's, we protect them from harms way.

They in turn break every rule in the book that the Geneva Convention (http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/genevaconventions) has applied for everybody's well being, and in turn some US soldiers are prosecuted for simple injustices.

Doesn't seem right, but thats just me, I'm not trying to make this thread a dog fight either, its just thought typed on a screen.

GC 1 Art. 50.
Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, and extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 28th, 2006, 4:31pm

on 06/28/06 at 11:29:36, john_d wrote:
If you want quality, you have to leave mainstream media behind.



I quit watching television about 2 1/2-3 years ago and I don't miss it at all.  

I get most of my news from the internet where I can check more than one source to get the real story...

DD
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Gena on Jun 28th, 2006, 4:40pm
For some reason, the media would like us all to because self-loathing Americans, and relive the glory days of the Vietnam era.

I think America is great and would be much better if we could get rid of the self-serving politicians and media.

I also don't see any Glory in Vietnam - we pulled out of Vietnam and treated our own solders like shit when they came home. Where is the glory in that!!!
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by JeffB on Jun 28th, 2006, 4:40pm

on 06/28/06 at 15:49:19, Jonny wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I am talking to you from behind the golden "EIB" microphone and broadcasting from high atop the "EIB" building.

EIB= Erection In-a Bottle ;;D

ROTFLMFAO!!!!
Ladies and Gentlemen, I like long dark wang, I like to blow senators in the EIB network bathrooms....

What was Rush doing in the Dominican Republic with viagra???
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by floridian on Jun 28th, 2006, 10:32pm

on 06/28/06 at 15:49:19, Jonny wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I am talking to you from behind the golden "EIB" microphone and broadcasting from high atop the "EIB" building.

EIB= Erection In-a Bottle ;;D


Gotta feel sorry for the guy on this one ... my doc has given me samples of biaxin. It's a prescription antibiotic which did not have my name on them. Did that make me a criminal?  Guess I'll go donate to the ACLU to help defend Rush - again!
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Jonny on Jun 28th, 2006, 10:34pm

on 06/28/06 at 22:32:19, floridian wrote:
Gotta feel sorry for the guy on this one ... my doc has given me samples of biaxin. A prescription med, which did not have my name on them. Did that make me a criminal?  Guess I'll go donate to the ACLU to help defend Rush - again!


Yes, now do community service you bastard.....LOL ;;D
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Richr8 on Jun 28th, 2006, 11:37pm
I remember a while back reading about a TV station in Britain (I believe) that sponsored a show called, "The good news." or something like that, that focused on good news stories only.  It only lasted a month or two due to poor ratings.  So I guess we are the enemy.  They (the media) air what sells.  
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 29th, 2006, 1:10am

Quote:
The media is so left wing it is despicable, they are not and have never been neutral and are running there own agenda.


Really? Incredibly rich Republican Corporations and greedy CEOs own or run cable news media.... Oh it's money.....it's okay then. Sorry for questioning the great work they've done creating our stunningly bland and boring tv news programs. Thank God they made late night AM radio so exciting too... http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/snooze drape.gif

For me, it's okay to describe this kind of thing in print. What cable news does is make lots of money for its investors by keeping this stuff alive. People seem addicted to it.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 29th, 2006, 6:01am
I think the whole thing has been blown out of porportion. Bush said back in 2001 that the US was "following the money" so what's the BIG deal? They made a big to-do out of it back then, so to me this is OLD news. It probably wouldn't even have been noticed if all the crap that Bush and Cheeney started sprouting had not occurred.

It's an election year so everyone is trying to discredit everyone else. The past couple of weeks have been totally ridiculous and a waste of time and money in the Senate and House. And the media is just reporting what's going on.

The news bias? Of course it is.... just depending on which channel you watch or what paper you read. But people watch and read what they want to, so it sells.....

I just don't want to see our Freedoms taken away and that seems to be what's happening right now. Disagree with the administration and get Whacked! Did it ever occur to anyone that these "leaks" are planned just to discredit the media?

With only a 38 percent approval rating, looks to me like Bush is grabbing at straws right now.

But that's just my opinion -- guess I'm still entitled to it (or have they put an amendment in the Constitution that I've missed?)

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by JeffB on Jun 29th, 2006, 12:43pm
So is there a line still in the sand the media should not cross or is it open game no matter what the fallout is?
Ike once told a group of reporters that we were invading in June, surprised by this, they asked why he just said that. He responded that "you're Americans and Americans won't do something that will jeopardize other Americans lives".
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 29th, 2006, 3:58pm

Quote:
So is there a line still in the sand the media should not cross or is it open game no matter what the fallout is?
Ike once told a group of reporters that we were invading in June, surprised by this, they asked why he just said that. He responded that "you're Americans and Americans won't do something that will jeopardize other Americans lives".
\

The difference is that Ike knew what he was doing and he was a true hero....these guys.....

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 4:01pm
No Charlie the difference is they knew Ike would have their ass in prison, that was back when the press had respect for the office of the presidency. That was when the press did what was good for the country and not what was good for their political ideology.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Mattrf on Jun 29th, 2006, 4:31pm
Well said Matt.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Gena on Jun 29th, 2006, 4:35pm

on 06/29/06 at 16:01:53, maffumatt wrote:
No Charlie the difference is they knew Ike would have their ass in prison, that was back when the press had respect for the office of the presidency. That was when the press did what was good for the country and not what was good for their political ideology.


agreed  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 29th, 2006, 4:37pm
Those with something to hide always go after the press.

Ike was my guy when I was a kid. His respect also came from his treating people well.

By the way;

if this thing were anywhere nearly as scandalous as they say it was, it would be all over all day long. Not even the so called liberal press miss kind of thing.

I look in on CSPAN, not much there about it but the court has done a little telling Bush that he went too far and was playing too losely with legal procedure.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by JeffB on Jun 29th, 2006, 4:38pm

on 06/29/06 at 16:01:53, maffumatt wrote:
No Charlie the difference is they knew Ike would have their ass in prison, that was back when the press had respect for the office of the presidency. That was when the press did what was good for the country and not what was good for their political ideology.


Well said Matt.
Respect the office even if you don't respect the man and his stratigery.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Tom K on Jun 29th, 2006, 4:56pm

on 06/29/06 at 15:58:15, Charlie wrote:
\

The difference is that Ike knew what he was doing and he was a true hero....these guys.....

Charlie


These guys?  These guys, that had all the "W"s removed from keyboards on computers when they took over the offices after Clinton/Gore?  These guys, that are reported to have the lowest popularity rating in history, at 31-32%, when Carter actually had 24-26%?  These guys, that are ripped for not doing something, then when they do, they get ripped again by the same people?  Give me a fawking break.   ::)
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 5:39pm

on 06/29/06 at 16:37:22, Charlie wrote:
Those with something to hide always go after the press.

Hide? Hide what? You know as well as I do if he did half the crap you claim he did  it would be on on trial. He cant fart without it being leaked. All the NYT is doing is cutting their own throat, their readership is low and going lower every year. This country isn't as Liberal as New Yorkers think it is, or wish it was.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 29th, 2006, 5:58pm
These guys started with one of its major goals to kill the New Deal that has kept things afloat in good and bad times for 70 years. This is the first time in decades that they have had all three branches of government to try to do so. Fortunately there are enough thoughtful Republicans around to hold them down. However, hey have managed to widen the gap between rich and poor to levels not seen since the 1890s. It's these guys that make war on their own countrymen. These guys are not interested in much but themselves.

The Clinton crowd had fun with keyboards; the Bush crowd has fun with The Bill of Rights. I'll take the former.

You know, it's not that I begrudge making money or getting breaks on taxes but it's the total lack of compassion this time. I've never seen anything like it.

Lots of rants on your side, not much substance from them but almost all for political reasons so far.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 6:10pm

on 06/29/06 at 17:39:26, maffumatt wrote:
Hide? Hide what? You know as well as I do if he did half the crap you claim he did  it would be on on trial. He cant fart without it being leaked. All the NYT is doing is cutting their own throat, their readership is low and going lower every year. This country isn't as Liberal as New Yorkers think it is, or wish it was.


I'd still like to know what he's hiding. If the NYT wants to go after them for bill of right abuses I am all for it. Leaking classified intellegence over and over isn't the best of plans. I'm not happy with Bush either but this isn't the way to go after him. It puts peoples lives at risk, and when people die because of it the NYT will be first in line demanding why he didn't protect us.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 6:12pm

on 06/29/06 at 17:58:13, Charlie wrote:
Lots of rants on your side, not much substance from them but almost all for political reasons so far.

Charlie


Dont hold your breath waiting for any substance, Charlie.  If you want to talk about specifics, all you'll get are references to keyboards and Jimmy Carter's approval ratings.
If that wont get you off topic, they will start talking about how Bill Clinton likes blowjobs.

B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 6:36pm
Its all good, the specifics are out there, just read back on this thread.

Lets put it this way who thinks the news storys that the NYT has been publishing is the right thing to do in a time of war.
YEA or NAY one word. Put politics aside and answer.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by JeffB on Jun 29th, 2006, 6:52pm
Nay!
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Gena on Jun 29th, 2006, 7:05pm
Nay
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Tom K on Jun 29th, 2006, 7:08pm

on 06/29/06 at 18:12:36, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Dont hold your breath waiting for any substance, Charlie.  If you want to talk about specifics, all you'll get are references to keyboards and Jimmy Carter's approval ratings.
If that wont get you off topic, they will start talking about how Bill Clinton likes blowjobs.

B$


Substance...hmmm....Clinton Gun Ban, did nothing, didn't stop crime, didn't even put half of the number of police on the job as it said it would.  Less than 1% of the crimes committed before it went into effect were committed with the guns banned.  Death Tax, first retroactive tax in the history of this country, thanks again, Clinton.  But hey, who cares what gun owners and dead people think.  ::) Trash their rights, no problem.  If President Bush had all the "dirt" you guys claim he has, he would have been impeached by now.  Hehe...I said Impeach [smiley=laugh.gif]

NAY to the Times
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Jonny on Jun 29th, 2006, 7:16pm
NAY!
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Paul98 on Jun 29th, 2006, 7:31pm
NAY

NYT=benchmark of biased journalism.


-P.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 8:26pm

on 06/29/06 at 19:08:33, Tom K wrote:
Substance...hmmm....Clinton Gun Ban, did nothing, didn't stop crime, didn't even put half of the number of police on the job as it said it would.  Less than 1% of the crimes committed before it went into effect were committed with the guns banned.  Death Tax, first retroactive tax in the history of this country, thanks again, Clinton.  But hey, who cares what gun owners and dead people think.  ::) Trash their rights, no problem.  If President Bush had all the "dirt" you guys claim he has, he would have been impeached by now.  Hehe...I said Impeach [smiley=laugh.gif]

NAY to the Times


Bro, Clinton took office in the 90s.  The 1990s.  The estate tax was first created in 1797 to help fund the navy.  Then, in 1862 they started taxing inheritance.

This is Clinton's fault?

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

There reason Bush wont get impeached by this congress is because Bush's party is the majority party.
Duh.
Any more talking point shit from Hush Bimbo you'd like to bring up?

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

The tax of 1797................Clintons fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Thanks man.  that was a good one!!
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 8:32pm
Yea or Nay Brian?
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Ree on Jun 29th, 2006, 8:44pm
As the mother of a soldier..... I hate the media.  I hate how they dwell on the bad things happening in Iraq.  I hate how the New York Times leaks important information that the bad guys can use against us.  I hate it all..... If that was my son I would have to be sedated for the rest of my life..... Gods love to those poor families.... and God save those horrid souls that think they are doing God's work by torturing and killing brave young men who want democracy for the country in which they protect.....

Im done.... ree
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 8:44pm
Well, its a tough one cause i dont read the times.

My feeling is that if there is classified info, it should not be told to the press.  If a person in the administration decides to commit treason, I dont think the newspaper should be prosecuted, I think the treasonist should be.

I dont know much about this particular article though.

B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:07pm
So that was the first Nay?

Would you feel the same even if he was hired in 1995? Everyone that works for the goverment isn't "in the administration."
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:11pm
Dont most people take an oath that work for the gov't?  If you are in the IRS or some other gov't body, dont you take an oath of confidentiality?
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:18pm
I agree the leaker should be prosecuted. But do you think the paper should print it ? Easy question.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:30pm
I know it is an easy question, but I dont know much about the subject so its tough for me to give you an absolute answer.

B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Jonny on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:39pm

on 06/29/06 at 21:30:15, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
I know it is an easy question, but I dont know much about the subject so its tough for me to give you an absolute answer.


What a fucking cop out, you have been in this for three pages and you dont know anything?

LMMFAO!!!! ;;D
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:41pm
educate yourself, its not likes its classified anymore.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Jonny on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:44pm
He started this fucking thread  ::)
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Tom K on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:47pm

on 06/29/06 at 20:26:38, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Bro, Clinton took office in the 90s.  The 1990s.  The estate tax was first created in 1797 to help fund the navy.  Then, in 1862 they started taxing inheritance.

This is Clinton's fault?

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

There reason Bush wont get impeached by this congress is because Bush's party is the majority party.
Duh.
Any more talking point shit from Hush Bimbo you'd like to bring up?

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

The tax of 1797................Clintons fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Thanks man.  that was a good one!!


I think the words...do some history homework, come to mind...as do others that I won't type here...sorry if I got the exact tax wrong, but the rest of it was correct... ::)

Quote:
In 1993, the Clinton Administration hit Americans with an enormous retroactive tax increase and steeply higher marginal tax rates. Even with a tax increase that was largely retroactive, there is already solid evidence that the Clinton tax increases of 1993 are generating less than half the expected revenue increase. Next year, after everyone has had a chance to fully adjust their behavior, one can expect virtually all of the anticipated revenue increase to evaporate


http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/saxton/saxton.htm
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:53pm
Yes Jonny, I started this thread.  However, this thread is not about the NY Times and the classified info.  If you want to talk about that, go to the thread you started.

I dont pay attention anymore to news.  All of what you hear is biased in some way, so a civilian shmuck like me cant find out the truth even if I researched it.

The reason I cant give an absolute answer is because there are variables.  Lets say Karl Rove leaked something to the news strictly for the purpose of political gain, that should not be printed whether it is harmful or not.
Lets say there was a real whistleblower with a valid point to make about some sort of scam....the newspaper should definately be able to print that.

The problem is the dividing line between what one feels is a good point to make and what is just political.

If everything in this world were black and white, like your question, Matt, it would be easy to answer.  However, there is a lot of grey.
Thats why I cant answer in an absolute way.
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Jonny on Jun 29th, 2006, 9:58pm

on 06/29/06 at 21:53:53, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Yes Jonny, I started this thread.  However, this thread is not about the NY Times and the classified info.  If you want to talk about that, go to the thread you started.


Gee, when the title says "Media" I was probably thinking like a crazy person and answered.

Sorry!  ::)
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:02pm

on 06/29/06 at 21:47:39, Tom K wrote:
I think the words...do some history homework, come to mind...as do others that I won't type here...sorry if I got the exact tax wrong, but the rest of it was correct... ::)

http://www.house.gov/jec/cost-gov/regs/minimum/saxton/saxton.htm


Tom, you posted this link, and in the first sentence, the dude says he doesnt like Clinton.
Obviously, that is biased.

Wow, and if what you say is correct, Clinton balanced the budget even though he was only partially right.  He thought the tax revenue would increase, but according to your link, it didnt increase much at all.

That must REALLY frost Bush's balls.  Even when Clinton was only partially correct, he still hasnt borrowed as much money as Bush.  
Bush ought to try being partially correct sometimes
[smiley=laugh.gif]
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:03pm

on 06/29/06 at 21:58:47, Jonny wrote:
Gee, when the title says "Media" I was probably thinking like a crazy person and answered.

Sorry!  ::)


Oh, so you read the title but didnt read the first post?
That would have clarified it for you.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:03pm
if there was ever a black and white question this is it. A secret (and legal btw) program that has already been instrumental in capturing terrorist is revealed by a paper. The exact same paper that published we were monitering Bin Ladins satilite phone, that would be the phone he never used again too.....Why make something grey when it is either black and white.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Tom K on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:10pm

on 06/29/06 at 22:02:36, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Tom, you posted this link, and in the first sentence, the dude says he doesnt like Clinton.
Obviously, that is biased.

Wow, and if what you say is correct, Clinton balanced the budget even though he was only partially right.  He thought the tax revenue would increase, but according to your link, it didnt increase much at all.

That must REALLY frost Bush's balls.  Even when Clinton was only partially correct, he still hasnt borrowed as much money as Bush.  
Bush ought to try being partially correct sometimes
[smiley=laugh.gif]
B$


Again I say... ::)  If you read more of the link other than the first line you also get this little gem...

Quote:
First, it is pretty clear that some of the ideas put forth by this Administration are never intended to become law. They are politically motivated to score points with special interest constituencies, such as labor unions, and to embarrass the Administration's political opponents.

But I guess that is all Bravo Sierra, too.  Since it was written by someone who isn't a Friend of Bill.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:21pm

on 06/29/06 at 22:03:42, maffumatt wrote:
if there was ever a black and white question this is it. A secret (and legal btw) program that has already been instrumental in capturing terrorist is revealed by a paper. The exact same paper that published we were monitering Bin Ladins satilite phone, that would be the phone he never used again too.....Why make something grey when it is either black and white.


 SOME things are black and white.

Lets say the janitor that works for Halliburton finds out they have a kiddie porn ring going on and they are using muslim kids.  It would be classified, but should a newspaper be able to write about it?
Lets say Bill Clinton gets a blowjob and that is classified because letting the world know that the President likes blowjobs is harmful to our country.  Should the paper be able to print it?

You see?  You may think it is harmful, I may not.  Then, your black & white question has become dependant on someone's opinion.
Thats why I cant give an absolute answer.
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Jonny on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:25pm
Information printed that will get our guys killed is what its about, not blow jobs or kiddie porn.

Got a brain?
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Tom K on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:32pm

on 06/29/06 at 22:21:40, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
 SOME things are black and white.

Lets say the janitor that works for Halliburton finds out they have a kiddie porn ring going on and they are using muslim kids.  It would be classified, but should a newspaper be able to write about it?
Lets say Bill Clinton gets a blowjob and that is classified because letting the world know that the President likes blowjobs is harmful to our country.  Should the paper be able to print it?

You see?  You may think it is harmful, I may not.  Then, your black & white question has become dependant on someone's opinion.
Thats why I cant give an absolute answer.
B$


And why the mention of Halliburton?  Is it a dig at the current adminstration?  Do you know that Halliburton has been in the business since 1919?  There wasn't a big up roar over Halliburton when they put out the fires that Saddam started in 1991.  They have been been getting contracts, bid and no bid, since WWII.  I guess we should dig into your past and see what ties you have to the Clinton Adminstration to discredit everything you say.... :-/ if that is how you want to play this game
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:35pm
Bro, when the Gitmo and Abu Grahib stories came out, you said it emboldens the enemy and that hurts our boys.
You think if there was a kiddie porn ring run by the USA with muslim slave kids, that wouldnt embolden the enemy also?
Yes I have a brain.  Do you?

Woops, i just realized I got my D-Day date wrong up above.  But anyway, lets say after Pearl Harbor the newspaper printed what happened, and said we lost more than half of our pacific fleet.  That could harm our country, right?  If we broadcasted that we lost half of our pacific naval fleet, that might make some countries feel froggy, right?  And if they feel froggy, they might leap, right?  
So, would you try the newspapers that told the story of Pearl Harbor for treason because they gave information to the enemy that could have hurt us?
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 29th, 2006, 10:38pm

on 06/29/06 at 22:32:42, Tom K wrote:
And why the mention of Halliburton?  Is it a dig at the current adminstration?  Do you know that Halliburton has been in the business since 1919?  There wasn't a big up roar over Halliburton when they put out the fires that Saddam started in 1991.  They have been been getting contracts, bid and no bid, since WWII.  I guess we should dig into your past and see what ties you have to the Clinton Adminstration to discredit everything you say.... :-/ if that is how you want to play this game


Tom, you always evade what I say and fling more talking points.  
Ok, lets say it is Exxon, er, no GE, no lets say it is Westinghouse.  No, General Motors.  No, US Steel.  No Boeing..................................
Regardless of what the name of the company is, can you respond to my points?
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Tom K on Jun 30th, 2006, 12:02am
And you aren't flinging talking points?  From the likes of Al Franken and Janeane Garafalo?  You asked for substance and you fling talking points.  Anytime anyone brings up one of your guys, it is looking at the past, bringing up talking points, et al.  Get over yourself. :-/
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 30th, 2006, 6:25am
I'm with B$ on this one. If you don't want the media to report something -- DON'T TELL THEM!  I don't think the NYT did anything wrong. They reported what they were told - that's what they do. If you want to go after someone - go after the "leak".

Frankly, I'm tired of everyone "blaming" everyone else for the world's ills. Everyone screws up -- the thing is -- DO SOMETHING about the NOW and quit blaming everyone else for screwups.

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 8:20am

on 06/30/06 at 06:25:12, BarbaraD wrote:
I'm with B$ on this one. If you don't want the media to report something -- DON'T TELL THEM!  I don't think the NYT did anything wrong. They reported what they were told - that's what they do. If you want to go after someone - go after the "leak".

Hugs BD

Sure, and you do that by putting the reporter and editor in front of a judge looking at jail time. Just because someone told you something does not give you the right to print it. It was a simple question with no varibles. I know things that I don't share publicly, and why? Because it is not the right thing for me to do. It is as simple as that. Right and wrong.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by floridian on Jun 30th, 2006, 8:43am

on 06/30/06 at 08:20:09, maffumatt wrote:
Sure, and you do that by putting the reporter and editor in front of a judge looking at jail time. Just because someone told you something does not give you the right to print it. It was a simple question with no varibles. I know things that I don't share publicly, and why? Because it is not the right thing for me to do. It is as simple as that. Right and wrong.


So you think Bob Novak should go to jail for revealing the name of a CIA agent and blowing a brass-plate operation that was gathering information on Iran's nuclear program? The liberal NYTimes wouldn't print that, because they thought it would damage US security. But Novak had no problem damaging intelligence assets.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 8:48am
yes
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by floridian on Jun 30th, 2006, 8:51am
And if the White House facilitated that leak, and covered it up, should someone be impeached?
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 8:58am
to many ifs in that to answer, that isn't as simple of a question as to whether a paper should print about a classified program. Do you think the NYT was right or wrong Flo?
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 30th, 2006, 9:03am

on 06/30/06 at 00:02:21, Tom K wrote:
And you aren't flinging talking points?  From the likes of Al Franken and Janeane Garafalo?  You asked for substance and you fling talking points.  Anytime anyone brings up one of your guys, it is looking at the past, bringing up talking points, et al.  Get over yourself. :-/


OK, Tom, if you wanted to stop talking about politics, you should have just said so instead of speaking like you have turrets or autism or something.
OK, we can stop.
B$
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by floridian on Jun 30th, 2006, 9:13am
I don't think they damaged national security. Everyone knew that any money transfer that was done digitally might be scrutinized for links to terrorism, and the terrorists switched to other methods long ago.  


Quote:
What the American people need to know is that as long ago as 2003, terrorists stopped using electronic footprints in their financial transactions and went underground. The CIA slowly realized that terrorists had changed tactics and had begun using couriers and other means to spread money for training, planning and other operations.

It's only the American people as a group who didn't know the significance about the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (Swift), which, after all, has a Web site and represents 7,800 financial institutions in 200 countries.
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_8981.shtml
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BarbaraD on Jun 30th, 2006, 10:58am
Looks to me like if they wanted to hide all this stuff - they'd just send it (or carry it in) to Cayman. Can't find out anything there. So whatever.......

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 30th, 2006, 11:58am
Any domestic electronic surveillance without a court order, no matter how useful, is illegal. Monitoring international bank transfers, especially with the knowledge of the bank consortium that owns the network, is legal but unobjectionable. It's worth a story because it's not helping people who hate us. It's not a surprise to them.

In the end, all the administration denunciations do is give the press accounts an even higher profile. If administration was truly concerned that terrorists might learn something from these reports, they would shut up and not to give them further attention by repeatedly ranting  about them. Just because they don't like a story doesn't make it treason. The attacks on the press are part of a political effort by the administration  to use terrorism to divide America, and to scare their supporters to the polls again this year.


Quote:
Clinton Gun Ban, did nothing, didn't stop crime, didn't even put half of the number of police on the job as it said it would. Less than 1% of the crimes committed before it went into effect were committed with the guns banned. Death Tax, first retroactive tax in the history of this country, thanks again, Clinton. But hey, who cares what gun owners and dead people think


What's the gun thing? I can't remember a gun ban in the 90s. My theory too, is the NRA members are the most qualified to own them. The rest of us can have them if they know what they're doing. Enlighten me if you like; I just don't recall it. In any event the crime rate is at its lowest in decades. It's been going that way long before Bush decided to withold funding for police, state police and fire departments.


Quote:
NYT and others benchmark of biased journalism: They at least print conservative opinion. Most of the ultra conservatives only do so when the think they can scare their base. Someone has to be liberal. You wouldn't want to live in a country that had none.


The reason things like Halliburton and other monster corporations behaving like mobsters, reporting, is that with the Republican control of all debate on such things; information not approved by the GOP greased palmed congress would be an even bigger secret. Without some liberal press, they would entirely get away robbing the country..... no fair, I guess.


Quote:
And you aren't flinging talking points? From the likes of Al Franken and Janeane Garafalo? You asked for substance and you fling talking points. Anytime anyone brings up one of your guys, it is looking at the past, bringing up talking points, et al. Get over yourself


It's Republicans that live in the past. Their reason for being is the good old days. Kennedy had the New Frontier, Bush underfunds and cancels funding for science and bans birth control education to overpopulated poor conutries losing half their population to AIDS.

The Times story debate is black and white? Hardly. They would like it to be though. The Times is the press. There are rules to follow by Washington too. He might have done what other "war" executives have done; consult. Rules and lack of common courtesy are avoided daily by Bush and Co. Other Republicans most of the time, knew better. Bush runs like hell aways from press not approved by his ilk. They automatically fear them because of their own treatment of them. It's the same situation as the Pentagon Papers. That was sustained by Nixon too.

I hope Bush goes after the Times with his towering pillars of freedom appointees. What a story that will make.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 12:06pm
Why can't people on the left answer a question with an answer instead of a long pointless diatribe or another question? Yea or Nay, not one answer yet.

The question being do you believe that the NYT should have printed the stories about classified programs. Its a simple question. Leave the politics out of it and just answer Yes or no.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 30th, 2006, 12:23pm
Sure,

But classified, they were not.

Bush only classifies stuff in the archives.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 12:27pm
The NYT says they were classified, why would they lie?
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 30th, 2006, 12:46pm
Were they? I didn't know.

Not sure I would if so. I think the same thing occured before.

Guess I was sloppy.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by floridian on Jun 30th, 2006, 1:16pm

on 06/30/06 at 12:06:28, maffumatt wrote:
Why can't people on the left answer a question with an answer instead of a long pointless diatribe or another question? Yea or Nay, not one answer yet.


I said it didn't damage national security, and I see no problem with it.  Most would say that is pretty straight-forward, but since you cant parse it, let me say Yea.

You, on the other hand, seem to be all for creating black or white, yes or no principles on this issue, and then refuse to apply them the same way to all.  One set of simple and tough standards for the so called liberal media, and a flexible, complicated and accomodating standard for conservative media pundits and conservative politicians.  Novak blew cover for an entire brass plate operation and did damage to national security.  But conservatives as a group are silent.  Shame.  Just goes to show that patriotism is the refuge of scoundrels.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 30th, 2006, 1:43pm
What they do or try to do is to usurp the question and demand an up or down answer. It's what people without arguments do. Almost nothing is that simple...now we'll see things like Pearl Harbor or WTC of course. The classic is the "Do you support the troops?"

It's clever and Democrats need to find their balls on this stuff and point it out. A black and white world leads to a thoroughly unpleasant place. It's been tried by despots many times. Nuance, compassion and realization that draconian measures are usually the last resort of the incompetent are what makes us what he have been for 230 years.

Our side has to stop being nice guys though and push them around as they do us until elected. They go to any length...ala what they tried to do on John McCain for instance, but cut and run of course, after elections when their "compassnionate conservativism" is no longer needed.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 1:53pm
More poinless and meaningless diatribes. It is a cut and dry question and answer. i would have the same criticism if a democrat was in office. It is not up to the NYT to determine what is to be kept classified and what isn't no matter who is in office. It is not a political question but a right or wrong one. Goverments have secrets for a reason.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by vig on Jun 30th, 2006, 1:59pm

on 06/30/06 at 13:53:07, maffumatt wrote:
Goverments have secrets for a reason.


not always acceptable reasons....

look at Clinton with Hummers
look at Nixon with Watergate
look at Bush I with Contras

life isn't black and white
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 2:04pm
Where does it stop? When is unacceptable to print classified information? When does the public right to know over rule the goverments legitimate need for secrecy, and who is qualified to make those decisions? And in this case it is black and white. It is not comparable to Iran Contra, watergate, or clintons sex life. It is about tracking down terrorist that want to kill you and me, and a papers relentless quest to make it as hard as possible to do it for their political ideology or to sell papers. Either way it is either wrong or right to do. What is your view Vig?
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 30th, 2006, 2:14pm
you must mean, "to keep our children safe". oh, sorry, that's the argument for virtually everything else that the either side of aisle wants to use to spend needless money and attention on.

scott
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by maffumatt on Jun 30th, 2006, 2:22pm
And that is why the other side of the isle has lost almost all of its power and will continue to lose elections.
Its an election year so lets see what the American people have to say about it.
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by Charlie on Jun 30th, 2006, 5:57pm
OK

Black and white. It turns out the Wall Street Journal knew about it at the same time printed it the same day as the TIMES.

Hardly a liberal paper. Paul Gigot, is the editor and an old conservative.

Guess they have to be jailed too.

Charlie
Title: Re: Your opinion on the media.......
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jun 30th, 2006, 6:28pm

on 06/30/06 at 13:53:07, maffumatt wrote:
More poinless and meaningless diatribes. It is a cut and dry question and answer. i would have the same criticism if a democrat was in office. It is not up to the NYT to determine what is to be kept classified and what isn't no matter who is in office. It is not a political question but a right or wrong one. Goverments have secrets for a reason.


Bro, its not cut and dry at all.  Its a very complicated issue with many variables.

You said it yourself : its not up to the NYT to determine what is to be kept classified and what isnt, no matter who is in office.

How can you say that right there and then say in your previous post that the NYT DOES need to decide what should be kept classified or not?

B$


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