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(Message started by: Sean_C on Jun 11th, 2006, 7:36pm)
Title: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your teacher
Post by Sean_C on Jun 11th, 2006, 7:36pm
Teacher's Arrest Raises Questions About Law  

http://www.misstexas.org/images/2002/thumbs/03.jpg

DALLAS (June 11) - The arrest of a high school teacher for allegedly having sex with an 18-year-old student has raised questions about the age constraints of the state's three-year-old law criminalizing student-teacher sexual relationships.

Amy McElhenney, 25, was arrested May 25 and charged with having an improper relationship with a student. The Spanish teacher and former Miss Texas contestant faces up to 20 years in prison.

But some lawmakers say the Hebron High School student's status as a legal adult should exempt McElhenney from the felony charge.

State Rep. Helen Giddings, D-Dallas, wrote the Texas law in 2003 that criminalizes sex between educators and students. But she said she wanted the law to apply only to students 17 and younger - uncomfortable with making sex between two legal, consenting adults a felony.

"I feel differently about 17-year-olds than I do about 18-year-olds," Giddings said. "I don't necessarily believe the penalty for the two should necessarily be the same."

But other legislators added amendments to Giddings' bill when it reached the floor of the House, making it illegal for educators to have sexual relationships with students of any age. Rep. Warren Chisum, R-Pampa, proposed dropping the age limit, arguing that teachers wield a power over students that diminishes the pupils' ability to consent.

"If they're a student, I just think they're off bounds regardless of their age," Chisum said. "I felt like if we didn't do that, we just virtually made it open season on students that are 18 years old."

Neither McElhenney nor her attorney could immediately be reached for comment.

The woman's arrest attracted national media interest - which did not surprise Carrollton police Sgt. Pat Murphy, who cited the sensational elements of the case.  
"It's about what I expected for what this case is," Murphy said of the media blitz. "You've got a teacher that was a beauty pageant contestant that is accused of having sex with a student."

But McElhenney's arrest also prompted debates around the nation concerning Texas' law and the criminality of student-teacher relationships when the pupil is a legal adult.

"It's a little harsh, even for Texas law," defense attorney Jeffrey Lichtman told The Dallas Morning News. Lichtman discussed the case on a Fox news show.

He called the law "a little heavy handed, and it seems like a flavor-of-the-moment law."

Dallas lawyer Jim Moore said he felt the age issue would make jurors less likely to sentence a defendant to the 20-year prison term for an alleged relationship with a consenting adult. Moore represents a Garland school district teacher accused of having such a relationship in 2005.

"It's going to be real interesting to see what a jury thinks about this legislation," Moore said.


06/11/06 13:12 EDT

Being 18 and her 25, whats the big deal, I think 20 years in prison is a little harsh ;;D

Sean.................
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by alchemy on Jun 11th, 2006, 7:40pm
sounds a bit much for me. maybe a suspension but the kid 18 no jail time
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 11th, 2006, 7:44pm
Nope. It undermines the teacher-student relationship and the authority that is implied. Doesn't matter the age of the teacher or the student. It's called upholding an ethical standard.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Jonny on Jun 11th, 2006, 7:51pm

on 06/11/06 at 19:36:10, Sean_C wrote:
consenting adult.


Nuff said!!
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by john_d on Jun 11th, 2006, 7:58pm
I don't think she should go to jail for that.  But she should at least get a misdemeanor charge, just so she would not be able to teach at a school again.  She obviously can't be trusted with that job.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Jonny on Jun 11th, 2006, 8:02pm
The kid was of age...wheres the charge?
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 11th, 2006, 8:04pm
I'm not saying it should be illegal. But it is wrong. There will always be the appearance of favors for grades, which is a conflict of interest.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by chewy on Jun 11th, 2006, 8:06pm
Ethically she's out of bounds. Other than that whats the problem?
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Paul98 on Jun 11th, 2006, 8:23pm
Both legal adults.  No problem.
Teacher student, big problem.

Jail, no.  Loose job, yes.

She is stupid.

-P.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by chewy on Jun 11th, 2006, 8:24pm

Quote:
Jail, no.  Loose job, yes.

She is stupid.


LMAO!!

That about covers it! LOL
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Sean_C on Jun 11th, 2006, 9:32pm
Stupid and horny....................my favorite combo ;;D

Sean......................... ;;D
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by tanner on Jun 11th, 2006, 9:36pm


 NO JAIL!   lose job?

...Tim
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Redd715 on Jun 11th, 2006, 9:40pm
Were it any other couple, specially a 25 year old man and an 18 year old woman there would be no one bitching...

Agreed the teacher/student relationship makes this an ethical issue.  NOT a legal one.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Ueli on Jun 11th, 2006, 9:45pm
What's next? Jail for the bossman for having sex with his secretary?  ::)
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 11th, 2006, 9:49pm

on 06/11/06 at 21:45:02, Ueli wrote:
What's next? Jail for the bossman for having sex with his secretary?  ::)

No. Fire him. It's a subordinate relationship.

You ever gonna answer my PM?
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by chewy on Jun 11th, 2006, 10:18pm

Quote:
What's next? Jail for the bossman for having sex with his secretary?  


Shit. There will be a lot of empty seats in Congress!
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by jimmers on Jun 11th, 2006, 10:47pm
I could use some home schooling if she's looking for work. ;;D

Jimmers
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Paul98 on Jun 11th, 2006, 10:58pm

on 06/11/06 at 21:32:54, Sean_C wrote:
Stupid and horny....................my favorite combo ;;D

Sean......................... ;;D


LMAO...Where were these teachers when I was in school?  The ones I had were like your neighbors mother....or grand mother.  Yikes!

-P.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by mynm156 on Jun 11th, 2006, 11:04pm
If he can go to war I think that he can DO the teacher!
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Paul98 on Jun 11th, 2006, 11:15pm
No, the teacher did him.  

-P.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Charlie on Jun 12th, 2006, 2:52am
What a buncha tightasses. My dad would haved called this "getting lucky."  

Shit. 18 is old enough for anything.

Charlie, who had a long wait comparatively. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/TRIXYINAZ/spermandegg_t.gif?SSImageQuality=Full
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Kirk on Jun 12th, 2006, 5:16am
I don't think that 18 year old young man should go to jail. I'd call that getting lucky.
Did they say what his grade in Spanish was? I know what his grade in Sex Ed. should be.

Que es?  [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by rickyshot on Jun 12th, 2006, 9:58am
It is a question of ethics not the law obviously. She should have been fired and not fined or jailed at all.

I do not agree at all with what she did but what kind of lawyer did she have? Shit child molesters, murderers and rapists do less time. Something is wrong with this picture
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Tom K on Jun 12th, 2006, 10:29am
If I were that kid, I would find out the person who ratted and beat the crap out of them!  Kids these days are whiney lil bitches, probably someone was jealous and that's why this is coming out more and more in the news.  It isn't happening any more than before, just it's being reported.  At 18, was he still in school and her student?  Were they having a relationship during the school year or not?  If he had graduated before they had sex, would it be a problem?  
Quote:
But other legislators added amendments to Giddings' bill when it reached the floor of the House, making it illegal for educators to have sexual relationships with students of any age.
 Look out college professors, the law applies to you, too.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Tom K on Jun 12th, 2006, 10:32am

on 06/12/06 at 09:58:15, rickyshot wrote:
...Shit child molesters, murderers and rapists do less time. Something is wrong with this picture


That's because they are sick.  Blech...cou..bullshit..gh..I mean they have an excuse.."Oh, my parents beat me.", "Oh, the Man is keeping me down."  Give me a break!  If the kid was 18 when this started, then it should be a non-story.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by echo on Jun 12th, 2006, 10:53am
Jail - No
Suspension - absolutely
Termination - possible

Why is it that all my teachers looked like the north end of a south bound cow when I was 18?
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:07am
and he gets the greatest "one-up" story in about any locker room, bar, frat house, wherever. What a shame she goes to prison for this crap. Granted, probably bad judgement that might keep her out of the local garden club, but prison? There were at least 3 rock and roll songs in my era that made this possibility out to be an 17 year old's idea of the best fantasy known to a young man.

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Mattrf on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:08am
I agree that she should be fired but that should be it, hell he is 18 so no law broken. I do not agree with what she did but I think Tom got it right you just hear more about it these days. I am 43 and my wife was a cheerleader when we where in school, my football coach when I was a freshman had girls always waiting for him after class most where cheerleaders, we thought it was cool but did not know if anything was going on he was married and we did not think he was a perv. Well about 4 years ago there was an article in the paper about a coach that was busted for child molesting and guess who it was, what I wonder was how many kids had he molested over the years? My wife told me that it was well known that he was sleeping with several of the cheerleaders and that was over 20 years ago. I think it is right to get these people away from our kids but if the kid is 18 then there should not be jail time just a new line of work if the kid is under 18 then hang them out to dry.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Racer1_NC on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:17am
I wonder what people would be saying about this if it had been a male teacher with a female student.....same ages.

Fire her.....no jail time.

Bill
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:18am
Would your answer be the same if this was your 18 year old daughter who was sleeping with her 25 year old male spanish teacher?


Just curious...


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:18am
Get out of my brain, Bill....

LOL!!


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Redd715 on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:21am
I mentioned the exact same thing on page one guys....

::)
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Mattrf on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:22am
I would be pissed at my daughter for having such poor judgment and also him for the same, but would still feel that he should not get any jail time, her on the other hand would be grounded for as long as she lived under my roof. I have a 16 year old daughter now and I don’t think she would ever do something like this hell she just got over how grouse it was to French kiss so I think I am safe or at least hope I am for a while.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by The mad viking on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:24am
Lets split this up a bit:

1,

Is 18 old enough to have sex

yess i would definatly say that since teens at that age are adults over here
2,

with your teacher

I would say thats a bad connection on the ethical level


thats my 2 cent worth on this subject



Svenn
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by fubar on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:32am
"...making it illegal for educators to have sexual relationships with students of any age."

This is not only an ethical issue.  Even if you disagree with the law, it's the law.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:34am

on 06/12/06 at 11:21:58, Redd715 wrote:
I mentioned the exact same thing on page one guys....

::)




on 06/11/06 at 21:40:27, Redd715 wrote:
Were it any other couple, specially a 25 year old man and an 18 year old woman here would be no one bitching...



I read what you wrote, sis...but I have to disagree.

I think that if the genders were reversed there would be MORE people complaining.  Were it MY DAUGHTER (or my son, for that matter)...well, God help them because the courts couldn't find the pieces of them to put back together.

We send our children to school for an education, not to be the flavor of the month for the people that our TAX DOLLARS pay to educate them...

The law is the law.  If we start making exceptions now, where does it end?  

Any teacher who chooses to use their students as a "dating pool" deserves what they get.

DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Redd715 on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:43am
Thats why I mentioned "other couple".  I agree the teacher/student relationship makes this an ethical issue.  

I mean...25 year old Ted meets 18 year old Tiffany at the corner diner while she waits tables and they begin dating, no one would say a damn thing.  

25 year old Sandy meets 18 year old Steve at the car wash and they begin dating, he's the envy of all his pals.

The conditions under which they met is the only issue here.  Ethics were breached, yes, but it shouldn't be a legal issue.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 11:49am

on 06/12/06 at 11:43:27, Redd715 wrote:
The conditions under which they met is the only issue here.  Ethics were breached, yes, but it shouldn't be a legal issue.



It is a legal issue though, because we have laws against such relationships here in Texas.

She knew the law, she chose to disregard it, she deserves what she gets.


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 12:05pm

on 06/12/06 at 11:49:38, Donna_D. wrote:
It is a legal issue though, because we have laws against such relationships here in Texas.
She knew the law, she chose to disregard it, she deserves what she gets.
DD


So, really it's just a stupid law. It was handled a lot better in the old days. Teacher Jim is picking up on high school sweeties, and a few Dads get together with Teacher Jim for a little chat. Teacher Roxanne gets together with the captain of the football team and she begins to get the cold shoulder at the local hair salon were the football team's captain Mom just happens to be the colorist. These are breaches of mores not laws. More's are best handled within the societal unit and behavior's deemed unsuitable are addressed through various scoial pressure to reform.

Stupid laws breed stupid people.

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Racer1_NC on Jun 12th, 2006, 12:16pm
I tend to believe stupid people breed stupid laws....... ;)
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 12:33pm

on 06/12/06 at 12:16:56, Racer1_NC wrote:
I tend to believe stupid people breed stupid laws....... ;)


you might be right there. maybe it is even more precise than that. laws arising from stupid reactions, from stupid people, trying to save stupid people from doing stupid things, result in rampant stupidity on the level of absurdity.

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 1:13pm

Quote:
Student alleges sex with teacher

Lewisville ISD: Former Miss Texas contestant faces felony charge

11:01 PM CDT on Thursday, June 1, 2006

By BRANDON FORMBY / The Dallas Morning News

A first-year Hebron High School teacher and former Miss Texas contestant faces up to 20 years in jail after an 18-year-old student told police he had sex with the 25-year-old woman several times at her apartment in Austin Ranch.

Amy McElhenney, who taught Spanish and was a cross-country coach at the Lewisville ISD school in Carrollton, is charged with having an improper relationship with a student, a second-degree felony. She was arrested on May 25, the last day of school, posted $5,000 bail and was released.
Amy McElhenney
Amy McElhenney

Ms. McElhenney could not be reached for comment. The student's identity was not released.

According to an arrest warrant affidavit, another student sent an anonymous note last month to Hebron's resource police officer that indicated Ms. McElhenney's cellphone contained "intimate" text messages to and from the 18-year-old.

When police interviewed Ms. McElhenney at the school, she allowed them to view the text messages.

"Messages that were on there led us to believe there was a little bit more going on between the teacher and this student," said Carrollton police Sgt. David Sponhour.

In an affidavit, a Carrollton police officer said the messages "constitute a flirtatious and endearing relationship" between Ms. McElhenney and the student.

While Ms. McElhenney denied having a physical or sexual relationship with the teen, she told police she felt their relationship was inappropriate, police said.

When interviewed at home, however, the student gave police a written statement in which he said he and Ms. McElhenney had sex on "numerous occasions" at her apartment. He told police their alleged relationship began in February.

Ms. McElhenney was charged under a law that outlaws sexual relationships between educators and students even if the sex is consensual and the student is of legal age.

In Texas, the age of consent is 17.

[Proponents of the law have said it sends the message that even older teenagers should not be considered capable of consenting to sex with a teacher, especially since educators have power over their students.

Others, however, have said that while the law's intent may be good, it should contain different provisions for different ages and distinguish between students who do and don't consent.

The law took effect Sept. 1, 2003. Between then and the end of 2005, five Texas teachers were convicted and sent to prison under the law.

Three Garland school district teachers were arrested under the law in 2005 and accused of having sexual relationships with students. One also was charged with two counts of indecency with a child because the student was underage.

The Lewisville school district placed Ms. McElhenney on paid administrative leave May 11.

In March she turned in a resignation form that went into effect May 25.

Officials said she indicated she was not returning to Hebron because she was taking a teaching position in another district, though they were unclear on what district that is.

School officials said they alerted the state certification board of the investigation and her arrest.

Ms. McElhenney was scheduled to teach a Spanish course at a summer camp program in Corsicana, where she was hired as a contract employee after being selected to teach the course for 7- to 12-year-olds by the Navarro Council of the Arts.

"In light of the information, we'll either find another instructor or cancel the program," said Connie Standridge, Corsicana's city manager.

According to the Miss Texas Web site, Ms. McElhenney competed in the scholarship pageant in 2002 as Miss Bexar County when she was a student at the University of Texas at Austin.


Perhaps knowing more of the facts in this case might be best before deciding if a law is in fact "stupid".

First of all, this woman LIED to the police when initially questioned about her relationship with her student.  That in itself ALONG WITH HER OWN ADMISSION indicates she KNEW it was an inappropriate relationship.  So WHY, tell me, shouldn't she be subject to the laws of the state??

Secondly, Texas protects it's children.  The laws were put into place for that purpose.  

I may not agree with the age of 18 being considered under this law, but IT IS STILL A LAW and must be followed.  If I don't like the law, I vote someone in who will change it.  Honestly, I think we NEED  more laws to protect our kids.

DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 1:21pm

on 06/12/06 at 13:13:50, Donna_D. wrote:
Perhaps knowing more of the facts in this case might be best before deciding if a law is in fact "stupid".

First of all, this woman LIED to the police when initially questioned about her relationship with her student.  That in itself ALONG WITH HER OWN ADMISSION indicates she KNEW it was an inappropriate relationship.  So WHY, tell me, shouldn't she be subject to the laws of the state??

Secondly, Texas protects it's children.  The laws were put into place for that purpose.  

I may not agree with the age of 18 being considered under this law, but IT IS STILL A LAW and must be followed.  If I don't like the law, I vote someone in who will change it.  Honestly, I think we NEED  more laws to protect our kids.

DD


The law is stupid. More laws fabricated by politicians looking for headlines "to protect our children" fill up the books each year. There were already laws in place to protect children from predators in Texas as there is elsewhere.  Enforce the laws that were already in place and then talk about how smart new laws put into place to address the "malaise of the moment" work when put into force. Kind of like all the laws created that have resulted in common pot smokers facing mandatory sentences under specifically drawn drug laws that threw out too large a net.

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 1:27pm

on 06/12/06 at 13:21:39, seasonalboomer wrote:
The law is stupid. More laws fabricated by politicians looking for headlines "to protect our children" fill up the books each year. There were already laws in place to protect children from predators in Texas as there is elsewhere.  Enforce the laws that were already in place and then talk about how smart new laws put into place to address the malaise of the moment work when put into force. Kind of like all the laws created that have resulted in common pot smokers facing mandatory sentences under specifically drawn laws that through out too large a net.

scott



Do YOUR children go to school in Texas??  Well, mine DO.  As a Texas Voter and a Texas citizen whose children go to Texas schools where teachers are subject to Texas laws....I like the law.

If you don't like it...I suggest you don't move to Texas :)

I feel safer knowing that some perv teacher might just think twice before approaching my daughter or son for an inappropriate relationship if they know they are facing 20 years in the slammer.  I fail to understand why this is thought of as stupid.

You won't change my mind, by the way....I am as stubborn as Texas is big.

DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by BobG on Jun 12th, 2006, 1:28pm

on 06/11/06 at 20:23:01, Paul98 wrote:
Both legal adults.  No problem.
Teacher student, big problem.

Jail, no.  Loose job, yes.

She is stupid.

-P.

Well said.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 2:08pm

on 06/12/06 at 13:27:05, Donna_D. wrote:
....I like the law.

DD


enough said.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 2:15pm

on 06/12/06 at 13:27:05, Donna_D. wrote:
If you don't like it...I suggest you don't move to Texas :)


DD



Actually, this would be "enough said".


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 2:22pm
actually, that's not accurate. since Texas likes to send its representatives to "lead" our country and bring some of the great ideas they had in Texas to the national conversation, then I do have to worry about how stupid the laws they create are and how stupid the results are.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Melissa on Jun 12th, 2006, 2:48pm
Here!  Have some balloons!!!!
http://bestsmileys.com/ballons/8.gif


;;D
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 3:03pm

on 06/12/06 at 14:22:43, seasonalboomer wrote:
actually, that's not accurate. since Texas likes to send its representatives to "lead" our country and bring some of the great ideas they had in Texas to the national conversation, then I do have to worry about how stupid the laws they create are and how stupid the results are.



Last time I checked, you have the right to vote or not to vote for a candidate from Texas or elsewhere, so don't try that line with me.  It's a sad attempt at justifying your position.

You keep saying this is a "stupid law".  So let's take a look at the whole picture.

This situation involves a teacher who got caught screwing one of her students.  In Texas the law states that this "relationship" is illegal and is a felony.  She had knowledge that those types of "relationships" are illegal.  She will be prosecuted and afforded her rights to have due process of the law.

The big issue here is that he is 18 years old.  He is 18 years old and a student in high school.  If he were 17 I don't think anyone would have an issue with this teacher being prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows.  Correct me if I am wrong.

What I want to know is this...where is the wand that magically matures children on the eve of their 18th birthday??  Do children miraculously gain the wisdom of the ages and the insight into totally understanding the difference between "right and wrong" overnight when they turn 18??  Fact is, they don't.

I also want to know who sets the standard to decide which high school students (who may be of legal age of consent) are mature enough to establish an adult relationship with their teachers.   I don't think anyone can set such a standard.  Too much grey area for real predators to use as their own personal playground if you go that route...creates a loophole the size of the Georgetown Caverns.  

So the law has to be written to protect ALL students.   A law with no grey area or loopholes.  Which it was.  Now all educators know that if they (students) sit in a classroom in Texas they are "OFF LIMITS".  Gee, I wish all laws were that clear and concise...

I see no stupidity in this law.

...and I haven't even touched on the ethical issues here.


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 3:16pm

on 06/12/06 at 15:03:47, Donna_D. wrote:
What I want to know is this...where is the wand that magically matures children on the eve of their 18th birthday??  Do children miraculously gain the wisdom of the ages and the insight into totally understanding the difference between "right and wrong" overnight when they turn 18??  Fact is, they don't.

DD



You've finally hit the nail on the head!!!!!! For some reason this generation is being raised to think they are still helpless, immature children at 18. No, they don't automatically gain wisdom. They are supposed to get that through screwin up a few times. Making mistakes. Experiencing the downside of bad judgement.

You're a mom. There's no point in arguing with you, but at this point it is fun to see what next irrational argument you will make.

The law, if there was already a law in place to protect those over 18 from having sex with minors, is redundant, and therefore stupid. And, you won't change my mind because I find your argument to simply be entertaining at this point.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 3:34pm

on 06/12/06 at 15:16:50, seasonalboomer wrote:
You've finally hit the nail on the head!!!!!! For some reason this generation is being raised to think they are still helpless, immature children at 18. No, they don't automatically gain wisdom. They are supposed to get that through screwin up a few times. Making mistakes. Experiencing the downside of bad judgement.


The law is not for the 18 year olds. It is for the educators who are supposed to understand that kids don't "automatically gain wisdom. They are supposed to get that through screwin up a few times. Making mistakes. Experiencing the downside of bad judgement."  It punishes those people who take advantage of the aforementioned statement.


Quote:
You're a mom.
 I am a mom who happens to be dealing with the fact that this teacher could have potentially been one of my children's teachers a few years down the road.  This incident happened at a school where my kids may go someday.


Quote:
There's no point in arguing with you,
 This is the first intelligent argument you have made so far.


Quote:
but at this point it is fun to see what next irrational argument you will make.
Please point out which part of my argument you find to be irrational.


Quote:
The law, if there was already a law in place to protect those over 18 from having sex with minors, is redundant, and therefore stupid.
Actually, it holds those persons responsible for educating our children to a higher standard and deals out harsher punishment for breaking "the rules", so I see no redundancy.


Quote:
And, you won't change my mind because I find your argument to simply be entertaining at this point.


Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's ass about your thoughts on the matter, unless of course you try to move to Texas and vote out the laws that I helped to vote into place that help to protect my children from predators.  I find nothing that jeapordizes my children's safety "entertaining".  I find it disturbing that you do.


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 3:46pm

on 06/12/06 at 15:34:12, Donna_D. wrote:
  I find nothing that jeapordizes my children's safety "entertaining".  I find it disturbing that you do.
DD


an argument about the subject is not jeopardizing your children's safety. My enjoying a spirited conversation on the subject is not threatening your children's safety. so save your disturbed feeling and indignation.

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 4:14pm

on 06/12/06 at 15:46:27, seasonalboomer wrote:
an argument about the subject is not jeopardizing your children's safety. My enjoying a spirited conversation on the subject is not threatening your children's safety. so save your disturbed feeling and indignation.

scott


I reserve the right to feel disturbed and indignant.  It is my right. I am passionate about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that may affect my children.  How many kids do YOU have?

Your idea of a spirited conversation and mine are definately different.  

I also find it interesting that you cannot prove your accusations of my being irrational.  

Ever heard the saying, "Don't mess with Texas"?


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 4:25pm

on 06/12/06 at 16:14:46, Donna_D. wrote:
I reserve the right to feel disturbed and indignant.  It is my right. I am passionate about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that may affect my children.  How many kids do YOU have?

Your idea of a spirited conversation and mine are definately different.  

I also find it interesting that you cannot prove your accusations of my being irrational.  

Ever heard the saying, "Don't mess with Texas"?

DD


Okay, so the only way out of this is to argue that you indeed make rational arguments:

like "I am passionate about anything and everything that affect my children"
or the excellent argument "how many kids do you have?"
or my favorite last argument from any texan "don't mess with texas"

Okay. You're rational.  :-/

Now you will choose to argue that I am indeed wrong again.

scott

[smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 4:39pm

on 06/12/06 at 16:25:35, seasonalboomer wrote:
Okay, so the only way out of this is to argue that you indeed make rational arguments:

like "I am passionate about anything and everything that affect my children"
I would hope that you would have at least learned by now that this is a statment, not an argument.


Quote:
or the excellent argument "how many kids do you have?"
...and this is what we call a question  ....and you still have not answered this question nor any of the others asked of you.


Quote:
or my favorite last argument from any texan "don't mess with texas"
...and this was humor...but from the looks of things you just don't get it...just like you don't get the whole concept behind "teachers don't screw your students"


Quote:
Okay. You're rational.  :-/
...yeah and you are the Queen of England...(sorry Helen, no disrespect meant)


Quote:
Now you will choose to argue that I am indeed wrong again.


Actually, I would prefer to argue with a more worthy adversary...one who can actually back up thier arguments with well thought out responses and valid points instead of glib comments and pointless sarcasm.  

How about answering some of my questions and I might give you another go round.


DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 12th, 2006, 4:49pm
okay. you rule.  sorry to have rattled your cage as badly as I did.

still a stupid law though.

scott   :o

as for the questions -- i don't release personal data over the internet -- gotta watch out for predators. ;)
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Tom K on Jun 12th, 2006, 5:10pm
Ok, I'm going to jump on the pile...

What if the kid is lying?  Threaten to withhold grades, etc. and the kid will sing any story you like.  She could be telling the truth, we didn't screw, but it was not approprate, whatever the hell the difference is I'm not the judge.  This woman is innocent until she is proven guilty.  If she says they didn't screw, then it is her word against the kid.  Court will decide.  Will be interesting what this guy says under oath...
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by LeLimey on Jun 12th, 2006, 5:11pm
S'okay Donna  ;)

Seriously though, I've watched this and read both sides of the arguments and I can see stuff on both sides as both a parent and a woman.
In the sense that she didn't do anything wrong by sleeping with a person over the age of consent - yes I agree.
BUT!! (and you all knew there would be one didn't you?!)
Sleeping with a student when you are a teacher is not acceptable. We aren't talking about someone who was a teacher at the same school but not one of this kids teachers, we're talking about someone who taught a class this kid was in.
However you look at it there was pressure on him.
Pressure to have sex or fail? Maybe
Pressure to be cool in front of a young and very pretty teacher? Probably
Flattery at being chosen? I don't doubt it for one minute!
The fact remains that this woman is a sexual predator. She slept with someone she had a moral obligation to protect. What would she have done if this kid had come to her saying a DIFFERENT teacher was hitting on him?
If you can't do the time don't do the crime. I'm pretty sure the laws relating to teaching and relationships are covered pretty thoroughly in her contract and training.
If you go to Saudi Arabia and steal you will have your hands cut off. Not acceptable anywhere else but if you know it going in and you do it then more fool you and this IS the same.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by BobG on Jun 12th, 2006, 5:28pm
RIGHT ON, Donna!
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Jonny on Jun 12th, 2006, 5:34pm

on 06/12/06 at 17:28:37, BobG wrote:
RIGHT ON, Donna!


The phrase "Right on" was invented in Vegas....along with the mood ring ;;D
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by BobG on Jun 12th, 2006, 5:40pm

on 06/12/06 at 17:34:11, Jonny wrote:
The phrase "Right on" was invented in Vegas....along with the mood ring ;;D

And tie dyed T-shirts and bell bottoms.

Just to stay on track with this thread, ethics and morals were also invented in Vegas.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Redd715 on Jun 12th, 2006, 6:14pm

on 06/12/06 at 17:40:05, BobG wrote:
Just to stay on track with this thread, ethics and morals were also invented in Vegas.



Sin City...  the home of ethics and morals...

If thats not an oxymoron....... [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 12th, 2006, 6:14pm

on 06/12/06 at 17:40:05, BobG wrote:
Just to stay on track with this thread, ethics and morals were also invented in Vegas.



[smiley=spit.gif]

Thanks Bob!!

I needed that laugh ;;D

(I tend to get a little worked up sometimes about stuff that is important to me)

DD
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Charlie on Jun 12th, 2006, 10:37pm
Incredibly stupid thing. There are way way too many laws....the more laws, the less freedom as they say.

Most laws are unnecessary, especially something like this. Not everything needs to or should be codified. Perfection is impossible and using the law to attempt it is extremely stupid. The New York State Rockefeller drug laws are a prime example. Fortunatley, things have eased up a bit in that.

This is the kind of thing that was settled differently and more sanely when I was in school. To be sure, when my sixth grade teacher went far far away for molesting some kid in my class, is a different story.

Nevertheless, this is local news, not national news. Let things simmer down so it doesn't become so.

Charlie
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by jimmers on Jun 12th, 2006, 10:42pm
What if the kid was Home-Schooled? ;;D

Jimmers
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 12th, 2006, 10:54pm

on 06/12/06 at 22:42:30, jimmers wrote:
What if the kid was Home-Schooled? ;;D

Jimmers

Now I think that's illegal everywhere except Arkansas and West Virginia.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by KingOfPain on Jun 13th, 2006, 1:57am
# 1. The legal side of it:
=======================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

Ages of consent in North America
[From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]

Texas
Texas Penal Code Section 21.12 prohibits all sexual contact between an educator and student enrolled at the primary or secondary school where said educator works. No age is specified by the statute, and violations are a second degree felony.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.005.00.000021.00.htm#21.12.00

PENAL CODE
CHAPTER 21. SEXUAL OFFENSES

§ 21.12. IMPROPER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN EDUCATOR AND
STUDENT.  (a) An employee of a public or private primary or secondary school commits an offense if the employee engages in sexual contact, sexual intercourse, or deviate sexual intercourse with a person who is enrolled in a public or private primary or
secondary school at which the employee works and who is not the employee's spouse.
     (b)  An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree.        
     (c)  If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another section of this code, the actor may be prosecuted under either section or both sections.

Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 224, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
=======================================

If the allegations by the student are true and proven:

By current Texas law the fact is...
She broke the law, committing a second degree felony.

So...
By current Texas law if this is allowed to go unpunished, does that mean that any student that hits the age of 18 is fair game for dating by Teachers, Principals, Janitors, Security Guards, Cafeteria Staff, etc..?   :o

That as I see it would be the message sent by the legislators/law enforcement if this Teacher is given a pass on her felony.


# 2. Ethically & morally, it's an outrage.   :(
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 13th, 2006, 9:16am
a case of poor judgement compounded by a stupidly written law in an age of governmental nannyism. that's all. not really the case that one would want to hang their hat on as an example of "moral outrage". nope, just poor judgement.

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by karma on Jun 13th, 2006, 9:43am
A moral outrage? ::)
I have very fond memories of high school.
But then again that was the seventies and in the Caribbean. ;)

Old enough to go to war but not old enough to decide who to screw? Now thats an outrage!!!
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 13th, 2006, 10:56am

on 06/13/06 at 09:43:59, karma wrote:
Old enough to go to war but not old enough to decide who to screw? Now thats an outrage!!!
It's not about deciding who to screw - it's about violating the authoritarian relationship that exists between a teacher and a student, be it high school or college. One has grades to give out, and the other is in a position to "earn" a grade. There is most definitely an ethical problem with that.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Slammy on Jun 13th, 2006, 11:08am
Even being the Slammy that I am....I have to agree about the ethical part of it..... Besides the fact that the teacher would lose any credibility that she had....but a crime?  not if he is 18.  

But you got to love the way she thinks!   :D





Slammy   8)
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by karma on Jun 13th, 2006, 12:10pm

Quote:
Besides the fact that the teacher would lose any credibility that she had....but a crime?  not if he is 18.

Thats it right there!
A law that sets rules for relationships between consenting ADULTS is about the same as busting people for being intoxicated in a bar.
F-en rediculous,stupid,invasive crap.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 13th, 2006, 12:43pm

on 06/13/06 at 12:10:19, karma wrote:
Thats it right there!
A law that sets rules for relationships between consenting ADULTS is about the same as busting people for being intoxicated in a bar.
F-en rediculous,stupid,invasive crap.



Where were you guys yesterday when I needed a little help here?

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 13th, 2006, 1:17pm

on 06/13/06 at 12:43:23, seasonalboomer wrote:
Where were you guys yesterday when I needed a little help here?

scott

Umm....'scuse me....I was here, and I stated very early on that this is NOT (or should not be) a legal issue. It is a moral and ethical one.

I was givin' ya props, baby!  ;;D
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by TomM on Jun 13th, 2006, 1:51pm

on 06/13/06 at 12:10:19, karma wrote:
Thats it right there!
A law that sets rules for relationships between consenting ADULTS is about the same as busting people for being intoxicated in a bar.
F-en rediculous,stupid,invasive crap.

Yes, that is true. But when you are a teacher and the other is a student, you have crossed the line. I would not want any teacher screwing my child.
And, I have NO children.
And, I taught HS for 4 years.
And, yes, many girls were attractive but I consider them off limits just like I check my libiddo at the door when I go to work because I am married.
--This is my opinion. I could be wrong. Dennis Miller--
TomM
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by mynm156 on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:12pm

on 06/11/06 at 23:15:42, Paul98 wrote:
No, the teacher did him.  
-P.


I doubt very much that he was taken advantage of!
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by fubar on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:15pm
Regardless of the law, it was clearly unethical.  You just can't expect school to be safe if teachers are allowed to prey on students.  Say it was an 18 yr old girl and an older male teacher... nobody would cut that guy a break... they'd hang him and ask questions later.  It is a stupid world when we need laws like this to protect kids.  Shit, I had plenty of teachers that made me feel all jiggly inside... can you imagine what school would be like if all the seniors who were turning 18 during the school year were scamming on the teachers?  It could even be demoralizing to the 'underage' students who were left out of the faculty-screwing club.

I don't agree that it's a felony, but she should lose her job.  It's probable that the teacher's union makes that impossible unless there is a criminal conviction.  In this case, the law preventing sex with minors has not been broken, so the law preventing teacher-student relationships seems to have served it's purpose.  I hope she loses her job and teaching credentials, and has a long probation.  I cannot fathom putting someone in jail for this though.

-Fu
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:25pm

on 06/13/06 at 14:15:53, fubar wrote:
 I hope she loses her job and teaching credentials, and has a long probation.  I cannot fathom putting someone in jail for this though.

-Fu


I think she should get a good spanking. "You bad, bad, bad girl."

;;D
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by maffumatt on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:34pm
would it be OK for a Dr to have sex with a patient?
a therapist ?
a parole or probation officer ?
The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, the rules are there to protect the integrety of the institution. I guess institutional integrity is going the way of moral obligations.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:40pm

on 06/13/06 at 14:34:15, maffumatt wrote:
would it be OK for a Dr to have sex with a patient?
a therapist ?
a parole or probation officer ?
The laws are there to protect the vulnerable, the rules are there to protect the integrety of the institution. I guess institutional integrity is going the way of moral obligations.


y'all are right -- let's start stoning people again.

our so-called institutions lost most semblance of integrity long ago.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by BlueMeanie on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:50pm

on 06/13/06 at 14:34:15, maffumatt wrote:
would it be OK for a Dr to have sex with a patient? YES legally, NO morally
a therapist ? YES legally, NO morally
a parole or probation officer ? YES legally, NO morally


I guess the question is are we debating if the lady should go to jail for 20 years, or if her morales are down the tubes.

20 years in jail. REDICULES

Loose her job. YES
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:54pm

on 06/13/06 at 14:40:20, seasonalboomer wrote:
y'all are right -- let's start stoning people again.

our so-called institutions lost most semblance of integrity long ago.

So that makes it okay? "Say, little Johnny, all your friends are cutting themselves - it must be okay. Go ahead. Cut yourself."

That's a crock of shit.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:56pm

on 06/13/06 at 14:54:32, brewcrew wrote:
So that makes it okay? "Say, little Johnny, all your friends are cutting themselves - it must be okay. Go ahead. Cut yourself."

That's a crock of shit.


okay you're right on that one. bad argument.

but I'll go ahead and stand by the first idea:

"y'all are right -- let's start stoning people again. "
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by imnotbub on Jun 13th, 2006, 3:02pm

on 06/12/06 at 17:11:49, LeLimey wrote:
We aren't talking about someone who was a teacher at the same school but not one of this kids teachers, we're talking about someone who taught a class this kid was in.


This must have been stated in a different venue, the opening statements never saud this to be the case.

Anyway, I think I have the whole thing figured out. Have all the females in the school, students and teachers, where chastity belts, and feed the males salt peter until it comes out of their ears.
No screwing, no pregnancy, problem solved. ;;D
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by brewcrew on Jun 13th, 2006, 3:18pm

on 06/13/06 at 14:56:50, seasonalboomer wrote:
okay you're right on that one. bad argument.

but I'll go ahead and stand by the first idea:

"y'all are right -- let's start stoning people again. "

Stoned? No.

Shunned? Absolutely.

There's no way in my mind we should be sending the message to our kids that it's okay for their teachers to come on to them.
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Donna_D. on Jun 13th, 2006, 3:21pm
Just found a very interesting article you might be interested in Seasonalbloomer....


Quote:
Forbidding teachers from sexual relationships with students, no matter their age, was exactly the intent of those who crafted the law making North Carolina one of the four toughest states in the country.

“We were having incidents where the student was 16 and older where teachers were engaging in inappropriate relationships with them,” said Leanne Winner, a lobbyist for the N.C. School Boards Association who helped write the law. “And all we could do was revoke their teacher’s license.

“In that situation, obviously teachers have a great deal of influence and control over impressionable children, and we just felt like there needed to be more protections put in place for children.”

Many states prohibit educators from consensual sex with students, according to a 2003 study by Education Week magazine. But all except Ohio, Georgia, Connecticut and North Carolina set an upper age limit, usually 17.

North Carolina law states: “If a defendant, who is a teacher, school administrator, student teacher, school safety officer, or coach, at any age ... engages in intercourse or a sexual act with a victim who is a student, at any time during or after the time the defendant and victim were present together in the same school, but before the victim ceases to be a student, the defendant is guilty of a Class G felony, except when the defendant is lawfully married to the student.”


http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060522/NEWS01/60521039/1010


Seems Texans aren't the only ones who think this law is a good idea.  If you feel this strongly about the subject matter, I suggest you contact your congressman there in North Carolina....although it seems you need this law based on the following...


Quote:
Authorities have won at least 30 felony convictions under the North Carolina law, according to the most recent data from the N.C. Administrative Office of the Courts, which does not include this year’s arrests.

More than 80 school employees have been charged.

Buncombe County authorities have charged at least five, including this year’s arrests of Shelton and James Patrick Carney, the Erwin High School band director charged with having sex with a 17-year-old senior.


Before you suggest we start stoning people, you might want to clean up that little glass house you have been living in.....

DD

edited: because my copy and paste skills suck today
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 13th, 2006, 3:30pm
donna,

glad you got back from the law library for that post.
great work.

as you may have forgot I have not really made a subtantive argument on this subject since the thread was started. I've mostly made smart ass remarks about how stupid the law is, based simply on my opinion that this 18 year old and this 25 year old woman (who is hot!) make for a story that the kid will be able to brag about the rest of his life. And the teacher - jail time.
you were the one that brought texas, and got emotional over how my attitude was objectionable to you and to the safety of your children.

so, my response is simple. i'm not from here (NC) and if they have a law like that on the books here it shows the many commonalities that state legislators who react to the wind end up with. what is that .... stupid law.

scott
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by TomM on Jun 13th, 2006, 3:46pm

on 06/13/06 at 15:02:30, imnotbub wrote:
Anyway, I think I have the whole thing figured out. Have all the females in the school, students and teachers, where chastity belts, and feed the males salt peter until it comes out of their ears.
No screwing, no pregnancy, problem solved. ;;D

That did not work when I was in the U.S. Coast Guard and I highly doubt it would work now. Try again?

Yes, I realize you were kidding.  :D
TomM
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by deltadarlin on Jun 13th, 2006, 6:07pm
I don't think I misunderstood the law, but find this part of it interesting, * which the employee works and*.  If I didn't misread it, there wouldn't have been a problem if the teacher had worked at another school.

I don't think it should be a felony.  She SHOULD lose her job and possibly her teaching credentials.   Unfortunately, stupidity has yet to be declared a crime.  This has nothing to do with the age of consent, it has to do with her KNOWING what could happen to her if she crossed the line.

darlin
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Sean_C on Jun 13th, 2006, 6:19pm
Who put the 20 year prison sentence in front of that line??? It is a stupid law, sorry D. If the kid was 17 she crossed the line legally, if he's 18 its ethical, no more. It should be handled by the school board and not the long arm.

I hope she finds a good jury that'll dump that case.

Sean...................................
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by Charlie on Jun 13th, 2006, 8:03pm
God. When I was 18, I was about as rational as hand grenade. An 18 year old kid is dangerous. Teach is lucky she survived...  :o 8) http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/standart/punish2.gif?SSImageQuality=Full

Charlie
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by ccbiggsoo7 on Jun 18th, 2006, 1:08am
god love her her horny ass!! remember if ya don't do it right the first time the teacher makes you do it again until u get it right!!  :P
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by E-Double on Jun 18th, 2006, 7:35am

on 06/11/06 at 19:44:38, brewcrew wrote:
Nope. It undermines the teacher-student relationship and the authority that is implied. Doesn't matter the age of the teacher or the student. It's called upholding an ethical standard.


Exactly!
It is inappropriate.
I do not know about imprisonment because he is of legal consenting age, however she should lose her job and credentials
Title: Re: Is 18 old enough to have sex if its w/your tea
Post by E-Double on Jun 18th, 2006, 7:37am

on 06/11/06 at 22:58:59, Paul98 wrote:
LMAO...Where were these teachers when I was in school?  

-P.


In my bed [smiley=laugh.gif]
J/k ;)


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