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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> WDGCH
        
(Message started by: Bob P on May 24^th, 2006, 4:15pm)

Title: WDGCH
Post by Bob P on May 24^th, 2006, 4:15pm

Quote:

Research Submission
Testosterone Replacement Therapy for Treatment Refractory Cluster Headache
Mark J. Stillman, MD
Objectives.—To describe the clinical characteristics and laboratory findings of cluster headache patients whose headaches responded to testosterone replacement therapy.

Background.—Current evidence points to hypothalamic dysfunction, with increased metabolic hyperactivity in the region of the suprachiasmatic nucleus, as being important in the genesis of cluster headaches. This is clinically borne out in the circadian and diurnal behavior of these headaches. For years it has been recognized that male cluster headache patients appear overmasculinized. Recent neuroendocrine and sleep studies now point to an association between gonadotropin and corticotropin levels and hypothalamically entrained pineal secretion of melatonin.

Results.—Seven male and 2 female patients, seen between July 2004 and February 2005, and between the ages of 32 and 56, are reported with histories of treatment resistant cluster headaches accompanied by borderline low or low serum testosterone levels. The patients failed to respond to individually tailored medical regimens, including melatonin doses of 12 mg a day or higher, high flow oxygen, maximally tolerated verapamil, antiepileptic agents, and parenteral serotonin agonists. Seven of the 9 patients met 2004 International Classification for the Diagnosis of Headache criteria for chronic cluster headaches; the other 2 patients had episodic cluster headaches of several months duration. After neurological and physical examination all patients had laboratory investigations including fasting lipid panel, PSA (where indicated), LH, FSH, and testosterone levels (both free and total). All 9 patients demonstrated either abnormally low or low, normal testosterone levels. After supplementation with either pure testosterone in 5 of 7 male patients or combination testosterone/estrogen therapy in both female patients, the patients achieved cluster headache freedom for the first 24 hours. Four male chronic cluster patients, all with abnormally low testosterone levels, achieved remission.

Conclusions.—Abnormal testosterone levels in patients with episodic or chronic cluster headaches refractory to maximal medical management may predict a therapeutic response to testosterone replacement therapy. In the described cases, diurnal variation of attacks, a seasonal cluster pattern, and previous, transient responsiveness to melatonin therapy pointed to the hypothalamus as the site of neurological dysfunction. Prospective studies pairing hormone levels and polysomnographic data are needed.

Men who get clusters are manly men. The Italians were right!

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by clarence on May 24^th, 2006, 4:22pm

Can one really be overmasculinized?

And yes, we are manly men!

Casey

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Bob P on May 24^th, 2006, 4:27pm

Quote:

Can one really be overmasculinized?

Long Dong Silver and Moby Dick were (maybe Jonny too).

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Redd715 on May 24^th, 2006, 4:31pm

No comment.....

Nope Nope Nope

:-X :-X :-X

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by BobG on May 24^th, 2006, 4:33pm

ROTFLMAO [smiley=laugh.gif]

overmasculinized........!

Yeah, right. That's my problem for sure.

;;D [smiley=laugh.gif] :D

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Sandy_C on May 24^th, 2006, 4:33pm

What Redd said

:-X :-X :-X :-X

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by seasonalboomer on May 24^th, 2006, 4:35pm

seriously .... what would overmasculinized mean? from a medical standpoint?

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Donna_D. on May 24^th, 2006, 5:18pm

Ummm....Think you better read again....

Quote:

Results.—Seven male and 2 female patients, seen between July 2004 and February 2005, and between the ages of 32 and 56, are reported with histories of treatment resistant cluster headaches accompanied by borderline low or low serum testosterone levels.

Quote:

All 9 patients demonstrated either abnormally low or low, normal testosterone levels. After supplementation with either pure testosterone in 5 of 7 male patients or combination testosterone/estrogen therapy in both female patients, the patients achieved cluster headache freedom for the first 24 hours. Four male chronic cluster patients, all with abnormally low testosterone levels, achieved remission.

And what are the results of low testosterone levels??

Let's Investigate!!

http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZO7PDVDLC&sub_cat=57#tes

Oh wow...look what I found!!

Quote:

Physical Symptoms Related to Low Testosterone
Signs of low testosterone in men may include decreased sex drive, poor erections by the penis [erectile dysfunction (ED)], lowered sperm count and reduced fertility, or increased breast size. Men also may have symptoms similar to those seen during menopause in women — hot flashes, increased irritability, inability to concentrate, and depression.

Some men may have a prolonged and severe decrease in testosterone production. As a result, they may experience loss of body hair and reduced muscle mass, their bones may be more brittle and prone to fracture, and their testes may become smaller and softer. In younger men, low testosterone production may reduce the development of body and facial hair, muscle mass, and genitals. In addition, their voices also may fail to deepen.

Women may not get CH...but apparantly...REAL men don't get it either :P

:-* For my sisters with CH...we may in fact be more manly than our male counterparts!!

DD

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Lizzie2 on May 24^th, 2006, 5:27pm

LMAO Donna! Nice one!!! ;)

Women who have higher than normal testosterone levels often have an increased amount of chin acne and irregular periods - for starters.

The "D" in WDGCH means "DO" right?

;)

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by pattik on May 24^th, 2006, 5:28pm

on 05/24/06 at 17:18:39, Donna_D. wrote:

Women may not get CH...but apparantly...REAL men don't get it either :P

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
Donna, that was also my take on the article.

Quote:

WDGCH

shut up bob ;;D

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Donna_D. on May 24^th, 2006, 5:30pm

Don't worry guys....

There is a solution to that low testosterone problem...

Testoderm®
Alza Pharmaceuticals
4mg/day, 40cm2 patch
or 6mg/day, 60cm2 patch

Applied daily to scrotum.

Happy Patching!!

DD

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Tom K on May 24^th, 2006, 5:43pm

Thanks for opening that door, Bob :-/

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Karla on May 24^th, 2006, 5:51pm

Oh DD say it aint so! ;;D

:-X :-X :-X :-X

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by unsolved1 on May 24^th, 2006, 6:11pm

on 05/24/06 at 17:43:44, Tom K wrote:

Thanks for opening that door, Bob :-/

LMAO [smiley=laugh.gif]

Does that mean my testes are going to shrink ??

UNsolved

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Linda_Howell on May 24^th, 2006, 7:03pm

So, let me see if I got this right.

All women with CH should march into their Dr.s office and demand shots of Testosterone?

Begs the questions :

will we then need aftershave or perfume?

Boxers or briefs?

Salon or barbershop?

Linda

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Jonny on May 24^th, 2006, 7:11pm

on 05/24/06 at 19:03:25, Linda_Howell wrote:

Brazilian wax ;;D

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by floridian on May 24^th, 2006, 7:17pm

There is conflicting (and relatively sparse) info on the testosterone levels of men with clusters. Both testosterone and anti-testosterone treatments help some people to varying degrees. I think I read somewhere that the testosterone only drops when a person is in cycle. But this is really still a roscharch, so believe what you like.

(The clusterhead formerly known as Floridian).

Quote:

Int J Clin Pharmacol Res. 1988;8(1):21-4.

Antiandrogenic medication of cluster headache.

Sicuteri F. Institute of Internal Medicine and Clinical Pharmacology, University of Florence, Italy.

The effectiveness of cyproterone acetate, a synthetic steroid with antiandrogenic action, was tested in 40 (young, adult) males, suffering from episodic (29) and chronic (11) cluster headache. Previously a minority (15) cases had been unsuccessfully treated with lithium, the conventional therapy of this condition. The rationale for an antiandrogenic treatment in cluster headache was based on its well-known clinical characteristics: 1) about 90% male sex preference; 2) rarity of clinical manifestations in childhood and in old age as well as women, e.g. in subjects with low androgenic secretion if compared to young adult males; 3) altered levels (increased or reduced, according to different authors) of plasma testosterone. The parameters to evaluate the effects of treatment were those conventional ones: intensity, duration and frequency of attacks. Antiandrogenic treatment improved, with few exceptions, by a slight, moderate or large extent, the course of cluster headache in all patients. The efficaciousness was mainly evident in those cases (15) of episodic or chronic cluster headache, previously resistant to lithium.

PMID: 3366500 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quote:

Cephalalgia. 1987 Mar;7(1):43-54.
Prolactin in cluster headache: diurnal secretion, response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and relation to sex steroids and gonadotropins.

Waldenlind E, Gustafsson SA.

The diurnal rhythmicity of serum prolactin (PRL) and the PRL and thyrotropin (TSH) response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) were studied in 31 cluster headache patients (4 chronic cases) and 14 healthy controls. Sixteen of the patients were studied both during clinical remission and headache periods. In males the nocturnal PRL peak was blunted during remissions as compared with that in cluster periods and that in control individuals. The 24-h mean PRL levels were lower during remission and cluster periods than in the controls. There were no significant differences in the PRL levels between female patients and controls. Headache attacks were often associated with increases of serum PRL levels. The PRL response to TRH was lower in the female patients but not in the male patients as compared with controls. The maximum testosterone levels were lower during cluster periods than during clinical remission but not when compared with controls. Serum levels of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, progesterone, estradiol, T3, T4, and TSH did not differ between patients and controls. The results suggest an altered regulation of PRL secretion not only during active cluster periods but also during symptom-free intervals. The possible influence of sleep, estradiol, testosterone, medication, pain, and serotoninergic and dopaminergic mechanisms are discussed.

That last bold statement is consistent with the idea that we manly men are normally over-juiced on T, and it drops to normal when we are in cycle or chronic.

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Jonny on May 24^th, 2006, 7:23pm

on 05/24/06 at 19:17:38, floridian wrote:

(The clusterhead formerly known as Floridian).

LMMFAO.....Too funny, Flo!! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by floridian on May 24^th, 2006, 7:29pm

on 05/24/06 at 19:23:05, Jonny wrote:

LMMFAO.....Too funny, Flo!! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Can't help it if I get a little confused.... ;)

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by chewy on May 24^th, 2006, 7:43pm

Quote:

For years it has been recognized that male cluster headache patients appear overmasculinized.

Obviously they haven't seen BobP in his sun dress.

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Melissa on May 24^th, 2006, 7:44pm

on 05/24/06 at 17:27:54, Lizzie2 wrote:

Women who have higher than normal testosterone levels often have an increased amount of chin acne and irregular periods - for starters.

Oh man, I wondered why I had that problem. :(

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Mr. Happy on May 24^th, 2006, 7:53pm

on 05/24/06 at 17:27:54, Lizzie2 wrote:

Women who have higher than normal testosterone levels often have an increased amount of chin acne and irregular periods

Bugger acne and periods. I don't care about that crap........
but it's hard to bypass a wench with a finer 'stache and thicker beard than mine.

It's a "druthers" kind of thing.
RJ

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by deltadarlin on May 24^th, 2006, 7:58pm

A hilarious end to an otherwise shitty day

Nor have they seen Chuck in his pink thongs :-X

'darlin

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by DonnaHar on May 24^th, 2006, 8:50pm

I've been saying this was a testosterone problem since 1999, right Bob?

I have a history to give this theory some leverage.

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Jonny on May 24^th, 2006, 9:57pm

on 05/24/06 at 20:50:31, DonnaHar wrote:

I've been saying this was a testosterone problem since 1999, right Bob?

I have a history to give this theory some leverage.

Please share! ;;D

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Dave_Emond on May 24^th, 2006, 10:28pm

Can't help but wonder, has anyone who posted so far have to deal with this?
I have, and you'll never convince me that testosterone levels and CH have anything in common at all. I had (and probably still do) very low levels of testosterone and was prescribed a cream that you dispense through a siringe onto your wrists and chest. After 4 months, sorry ... no change in CH or getting "Mr. Johnson" any renewed life or relief! I know the testosterone was given to me because of my Suppressed Immune System and not for CH, but it did absolutley nothing to cure or "raise" any ideas that it did anything at all. Just another set of bills and med payments.
Mr. Johnson wakes when he wants, unfortunately with all the meds they experiment with on us, it is more likely they are the cause of ED. I'm not completely ED, but Mr. Johnson and I don't seem to be on the same timimg pattern ::) Talk about frustration!
No, can't buy into any of this. Again still more propaganda for scammers to get grant money, fill us full of bull reports, doctors in turn buy what the "pretty" sales people tell them and accept all the gifts to push it to the patients ... who then go into more debt for a worthless cause and product to try to cure something the same process with another med put them in ... in the first place!
Still looking for that perpetual motion clock? Look no further than the whole pharmacuetical world, they got it down! (Or ... am I supposed to say "Up?"?) ::)
Just my two cents and writing only for the sake of writing ... but some bull is too easy to recognize.
Dave
(Oh, and I feel no less "manly" than I did before CH or any other problems!) :)

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Sean_C on May 24^th, 2006, 10:32pm

I get soft ons when in cycle, I've said it before, its like shootin pool with a rope if ya no what I mean, it just ain't gonna happen.

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Dave_Emond on May 24^th, 2006, 10:42pm

True Sean ...
But when you do get lucky enough, who rules in the end? We must give in to the real body part that has control ... which is not the male mind!
CH attacks after sex everytime ... but take what ya can get because we all know what really controls us :-/

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by nani on May 24^th, 2006, 11:26pm

I got plenty of it, so if any of you dudes need any...let me know. ::)

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Donna_D. on May 25^th, 2006, 2:09am

on 05/24/06 at 23:26:15, nani wrote:

I got plenty of it, so if any of you dudes need any...let me know. ::)

I know what you mean, Nani...

BTW they are not chin hairs...they are stray eyebrows!!

[smiley=bloos.gif]

DD

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Bob P on May 25^th, 2006, 9:55am

on 05/24/06 at 19:53:31, Mr. Happy wrote:

Bugger acne and periods. I don't care about that crap........
but it's hard to bypass a wench with a finer 'stache and thicker beard than mine.

It's a "druthers" kind of thing.
RJ

And in cruising around, I found the origin of our own RJ's board name:
http://archive.salon.com/sex/feature/2001/12/12/friedman/print.html

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Redd715 on May 25^th, 2006, 10:13am

on 05/25/06 at 09:55:50, Bob P wrote:

And in cruising around, I found the origin of our own RJ's board name:
http://archive.salon.com/sex/feature/2001/12/12/friedman/print.html

OMFG.....I can't stop laughing...I have to get that book for my brother....

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by pattik on May 25^th, 2006, 10:27am

[smiley=laugh.gif]LMAO, Bob.....great article!

Quote:

And in this comical moment, modern medicine, male sexuality and man's relationship with his penis, were changed forever."

And wouldn't ya know it, Giles Brindley is a Brit--there's that British sense of humor again. ;;D

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by sailpappy on May 25^th, 2006, 10:28am

:o :o Understanding the mechanism of testosterone is a little more complex than one might think, testosterone is actually created in the liver by a process of Estrogene conversion, Testosterone is produced as estrogene is broken into 2 parts. Its my personal experience that the two have little or nothing to do with MY clusters.
Due to the side affects of Hep c and liver misfunction, a Normal Testosterone level in a healthy male range is 270-1070, Mine has dropped as low as 4.2 and I have experienced no change in the frequency of Attacks. I http://home.comcast.net/~jhallahan2/wsb/media/299782/site1265.GIF what your saying, but do I think there is any validity to it!? http://home.comcast.net/~jhallahan2/wsb/media/299782/site1266.gif Pappy :o :o ::) [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by imnotbub on May 25^th, 2006, 11:46am

on 05/24/06 at 17:30:03, Donna_D. wrote:

Here's a picture of the first group to try the scrotum patch. Looks like there was a little side effect, ay?

Steve

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i12/imnotbub/heavyweight.jpg

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by Bob P on May 25^th, 2006, 11:55am

Quote:

Here's a picture of the first group to try the scrotum patch.

Exactly what I felt like after that double hernia surgery a few weeks back!

Title: Re: WDGCH
Post by sandie99 on May 25^th, 2006, 3:39pm

on 05/24/06 at 17:18:39, Donna_D. wrote:

For my sisters with CH...we may in fact be more manly than our male counterparts!!

Yahoo! ;;D