|
||||
|
Title: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by ShariRae on Apr 30th, 2006, 12:18pm Last nite at a family function..we were all talking about the illegal immigration issue..when the topic of the anthem being sung in Spanish came up..and the fact that some words were changed..ok...none of us approve of this (which is one of the few times my family agrees on anything!) but then my brother,who is a teacher here in Buffalo,NY told me that they recite the Pledge of Alligience(sp) in English & Spanish...ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDIN ME!? He said the school said it will "help with the Spanish lessons" HELLOOOOO keep it in English & let those that don't speak English learn it! It seems to me that by saying it will help with the Spanish lessons they are skirting around the issue of kissin ass & not rockin any boats...I wanna puke..but I will do so in English! Ok..rant over....nothing to see here..move along! Much Love Shari |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by chewy on Apr 30th, 2006, 12:27pm I'm all for the Pledge being done in differant languages. Then there should be no confusion amongst immigrants as to just what country they are pledging their alliance to. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by nani on Apr 30th, 2006, 1:00pm I'm with chewy... :o No matter the language, they are pledging allegiance to America. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on Apr 30th, 2006, 1:55pm Total disrespect...learn the fucking language or go home! Edit to add: How long are we going to make phone calls that lead to "If you would like to hear this in english press one"? Shouldnt it be the other way around?.......should that question even be asked? WTF!!!! |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by floridian on Apr 30th, 2006, 1:55pm This whole problem started with Martin Luther translating the Bible and Mass out of Latin. |
||||
|
Title: For the Record ... Post by floridian on Apr 30th, 2006, 2:14pm "Yo prometo lealtad a la bandera de los estados Unidos de America, y a la Republica que representa, una Nacion bajo Dios, entera, con libertad y justicia para todos." "Ich gelobe Treue auf die Fahne der Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika, auf die Republik, die eine Nation unter Gott ist, vereinigt durch Freiheit und Gerechtigkeit fur alle." "J´engage ma fidelité au drapeau des États-Unis d´Amérique et à la République qu'il répresente, une nation sous Dieu, indivisible, avec liberté et justice pour tous." "Ik Zweer Trouw aan de vlag van de Verenigde Staten van Amerika en aan de Republiek waarvoor zij staat, één Natie onder God, ondeelbaar, met vrijheid en gerechtigheid voor allen" "Eu prometo lealdade à bandeira dos Estados Unidos da América, e à República a qual representa, uma Nação abaixo de Deus, indivisível, com liberdade e justiça para todos." I also came across a translation in Hindi, but my keyboard settings won't let me copy it across. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Ueli on Apr 30th, 2006, 2:18pm What a frightful thought of learning a foreign language, that would enable to understand the fucking foreigners. :( |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Lizzie2 on Apr 30th, 2006, 2:24pm I'm going to take a random guess here and go out on a limb to say that by reciting the pledge in Spanish, they are helping American students who are taking Spanish classes (for foreign language requirements) to work on their Spanish by using something we know so well in our own tongue that it would be easier to memorize in a different language. That's the reason most schools do that. Not to appease Spanish students, but rather to help American students learn Spanish... At least - that's what I get out of reading that. And being that Spanish is my 2nd language and I speak it fluently - thanks to the dedication of a lot of great teachers. :) |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Dragnlance on Apr 30th, 2006, 2:29pm Quote:
Actually this is not the point. The point is that the illegals come in, and expect us to change our language to suit them, instead of learning our language. If I moved to Slovokia, it would never occur to me to expect the whole country to change it's native language just to suit me!!! My opinion, learn the English Language, or get out. Dragn |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by floridian on Apr 30th, 2006, 2:33pm So Ueli, how long has Switzerland survived as a multilingual nation? Does having French, German, Italian and Romansh dialects there cause problems (like the collapse of civilization, water flowing uphill, cats sleeping with dogs??) Can't you see that having more than one language will turn a country into an underdeveloped backwater filled with uneducated peasants, high crime rates, and a complete absence of drive-in movie theatres?? I have uncovered a plot here in America to multilinguilize people - they are sneaking those funny languages onto the very same DVDs that people rent and then put in their home players. Jonny, if you want everyone in America to speak English, why not start with the top nut?? Decider, strategery and nook-yuh-lar are not English words! ;) |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on Apr 30th, 2006, 2:37pm decider is in the dictionary, Flo ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by floridian on Apr 30th, 2006, 2:58pm on 04/30/06 at 14:37:30, Jonny wrote:
OK, how about Nook-ya-lar and strategery are not English words, and decider was used in an 'unusual and creative manner' with partial credit for effort. But don't make me start with the Bushisms - we all know that second graders have a better grasp of the language than the commander. "I'm going to spend a lot of time on Social Security. I enjoy it. I enjoy taking on the issue. I guess, it's the Mother in me." —George W. Bush, Washington D.C., April 14, 2005 "It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005 "Part of the facts is understanding we have a problem, and part of the facts is what you're going to do about it." —George W. Bush, Kirtland, Ohio, April 15, 2005 "We look forward to analyzing and working with legislation that will make — it would hope — put a free press's mind at ease that you're not being denied information you shouldn't see." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 14, 2005 |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by john_d on Apr 30th, 2006, 3:01pm Europe has a monster immigration problem, it makes me feel much better about a mere separation of cultural identity because of language and dance styles here. Even still I have no compulsion to go to Europe and run my mouth about it. ::) http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.immigration30apr30,0,517800.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by jimmers on Apr 30th, 2006, 3:06pm Sure seems funny to me that some people feel that other peoples religion is being shoved down their throats and they don't like it i.e. Christmas, the Ten Commandments etc. But they do not say a fuckin word when foreign languages are also being shoved down our throats, because after all "It's good to know a second language" or so I am told. When people immigrated to this country (My Grand Parents included) legally I might add, Did they piss and moan and insist that everyone should learn German, or Italian, or Polish, Norwegian, Swedish etc. just so they would feel better and life would be easier on them? Nope! They knew what the official language was and they dealt with it. Learn the language of the country that your entering, besides you are here illegally and you DO NOT have ANY FUCKING SAY SO in MY COUNTRY! If you enter this country legally, I will welcome you with open arms, but you better learn English. Jimmers |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on Apr 30th, 2006, 4:06pm Flo, you are an angry MF'er Time to grow up ::) |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Carl_D on Apr 30th, 2006, 4:21pm I speak broken spanish... I learned it from Cheech... "Eh, ahm Juss a love macheen, an I don' work fo nobody but you. I gaht mah tempretchur risin and I ain't poligizing when I said 'guacamole machoo...guacamolee machooooo... you girls neeeed a ride?" (from "Up In Smoke" ) If I move to a foreign country, I plan on learning the language first. That way I can COMMUNICATE with that tribe! Some foreigners, even if they DO speak english, will not do so if you do not attempt to speak their language in their country. If you attempt to speak in their language, and they realize you have made the effort - they will speak english as a courtesy. I do know one part of sign language that is universal and can be spoken in any language: [smiley=bigtiny.gif] par lay vou humma humma humma? Carl D |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by floridian on Apr 30th, 2006, 4:27pm on 04/30/06 at 16:06:43, Jonny wrote:
Lectures in netiquette and anger management from Jonny? That's too funny!! ;;D Who said: Quote:
Learn patience, my son, and accomodating people who speak other languages will no longer get your goat. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by chewy on Apr 30th, 2006, 5:03pm To anyone one with Italian heritage. Did your forefathers know English when they arrived? Asian heritage ? Irish heritage ? French heritage ? etc. etc. etc. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by maffumatt on Apr 30th, 2006, 5:17pm Almost all first generation immigrants have a hard time with the languages. When they discourage their children from learning English is when problems arise. A common language is a national unifier, seperate languages do cause problems and is divisive, Fench Quebec and the rest of Canada is a prime example. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on Apr 30th, 2006, 5:18pm No use getting your panties in a bunch, Flo.....thats unless you wear a thong ;) |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by cootie on Apr 30th, 2006, 5:29pm So lets all learn the Mexican anthem and take a little vacation south.........singing in spic-a-neese Pam |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Racer1_NC on Apr 30th, 2006, 5:54pm on 04/30/06 at 17:03:24, chewy wrote:
As a matter of fact they did. My Grandmother spoke 6 languages when she arrived in this country. My Grandfather spoke enough english to get by. They came in legally and both were very proud of the fact they had become American citizens. As far as I know, neither appeared at the local bank demanding someone speak Armenian when doing business with them, nor did they pretend not to speak english. When in public they spoke english, they considered it impolite to speak a language others could not understand. Bill |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Lizzie2 on Apr 30th, 2006, 5:58pm Does that make me a bad person for teaching parents how to care for their neonate in Spanish because they don't speak English and I am one of the few on the unit who does speak Spanish? One of the other mother's commended me on being able to speak well enough to communicate about the baby's needs to the family. I guess I coulda just said, "No...sorry you're going to have to learn English before I let you feed your son." LOL Carrie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on Apr 30th, 2006, 6:47pm on 04/30/06 at 17:58:04, Lizzie2 wrote:
No...It makes the parents idiots for not speaking the language and having to rely on you....Got it? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Lizzie2 on Apr 30th, 2006, 7:26pm on 04/30/06 at 18:47:31, Jonny wrote:
Well they did kinda speak English a little.... They helped me with Spanish words I couldn't remember and I helped them with English words they kinda knew but weren't entirely sure on. It was an amusing little scenario to watch for most other people around. Whenever I forgot Spanish words, I just threw in the English word and tried some sort of universal sign for it. And then they'd kinda get what I meant and...life went on. I don't use Spanish much at the hospital I work at now. I used to because I worked for a county hospital out with the Kennet Square mushroom migrant workers. They came to our hospital all the time, and Spanish was printed ahead of English on some of the signs even. It was a little crazy, to say the least! |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Opus on Apr 30th, 2006, 7:27pm on 04/30/06 at 14:29:42, Dragnlance wrote:
The problem is that American English is not our official language. If fact we have none. Until this is rectified, we will always be a multilingual country. The chances now of an American English only law is slim, but maybe we can Limit languages to English and Spanish. Some more information. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jwcrawford/question.htm Opus/Paul |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by BarbaraD on Apr 30th, 2006, 7:39pm I think everyone is getting their panties in a wad here. I took Latin in school which helped me with English and also with other languages when I was in another country that spoke the romance languages - at least I could get by. I lived in Germany and learned German to survive there although most Americans didn't bother. I'm not good with languages but I've tried when I've been in foreign countries and the people knew I was sincere. Most foreign countries (Mexico not included) teach more than one language in schools and that's something we should be doing. No, I don't think we should pledge allegiance in another language than English. And I don't think illegal aliens should be allowed to remain here. They should have a 3 month visa (like we American's do in most other countries) and then either get it renewed or LEAVE. But until immigration gets a grip on things, we'll never get this problem sorted out or solved. There's an election in November..... Hugs BD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on Apr 30th, 2006, 8:04pm http://www.freedomalliance.org/view_article.php?a_id=642 ............................. ;) "Conclusion In this era of tight budgets and soaring costs, it is imperative Congress, working with state legislators and local leaders, do more to curb illegal immigration, which continues to burden taxpayers with added costs for services many feel should be reserved only for bona fide American citizens." |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Peppermint on May 1st, 2006, 11:40am Spics? >:( Many people arrive in this country one way or another. They aren't all from Mexico. When I went to Boston, we got a real history lesson, down and dirty, from the duck tour operator about what the immigrants had to go through when they first came here. It wasn't right then and it isn't right now. Let's not pretend this is just a language issue. There are folks who become citizens and have every difficulty speaking it even after they are BONAFIDE citizens. So do we ignore them until they do? In New York City, especially in smaller neighborhoods, like, oh say( but not limited to), Chinatown, Little Italy, Flushing, Astoria, Bushwick, Corona, there are signs in every base community's language. .. Chinese, Italian, Polish, Greek, Russian, Albanian, and Spanish. How do these folks transition over to the English language without a helping hand? There are citizens living in our great democracy who have been here for 30, 40 years and speak very little to no English. Do we banish them? I'm perplexed by the lack of human compassion and understanding. I'm disgusted by some of the language. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by ShariRae on May 1st, 2006, 11:49am I have compassion & understanding..but I do not think things like the Anthem & The Pledge should be said in any other language but English.. I am sorry if I came off as being heartless..that wasn't my intent & I am not... Much Love Shari |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by imnotbub on May 1st, 2006, 3:38pm Does anybody actually speak Gaelic any more? Erin go Bragh! Too many people make a fuss over what language someone speaks. I'm sure that my great grandmother spoke pretty crappy english when she came from Germany. I think the important issue here is not what language you speak, but how you conduct yourself as an American (either citizen, or guest). Do you contribute to the neighborhood? Do you make the life of the guy next to you better? Are you NICE? Seems to me that this should mean something. My father in-law speaks awful english. Not because he doesn't want to speak better english, but because he can't. Has any one here that thinks it's so important for everyone to speak english ever tried to learn a second language? I am married to a Cuban woman (whos english is better than mine) and have been among many spanish speakers for long periods of time for years. I can't speak two coherent sentances in Spanish to save my life, and I've tried. I do think that the second generation people should speak English, and I think that most, if not all, do. Pledge of Allegience? It's the pledge, not the language that counts. How many people born and raised here refuse to say it? Ship THEM to Cambodia. The national anthem? Again, if they are willing to sing it, who cares what language it's in. Chastise those who refuse to. Steve [smiley=twocents.gif] |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by john_d on May 1st, 2006, 4:19pm on 04/30/06 at 19:27:11, Opus wrote:
he's right ya know |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by cekelle on May 1st, 2006, 4:21pm This country was founded on the basis that we accept all races, religions and nationalities. On that note, if you look back in history our ancestors, who may have been from different countries, all eventually learned to speak the same language. So why are we complying with this bullcrap to try to be politically correct? Well, I think I just answered my own question. We have become so soft in our culture that we do not want to hurt anyones feelings. God forbid we tell it like it is anymore. I firmly believe that if you are going to choose to reside in a foreign country that you should learn the language. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Sandy_C on May 1st, 2006, 6:32pm I have no problem whatsoever with people coming to live and work in my country who enter it legally. I do expect them to learn at least enough English so that they can communicate with the people they need to deal with on a daily basis - employers, bankers, grocery store clerks, police, firemen, hospital personnel. They should be able to communicate their wishes or needs in English. It's not for me, it's for their own welfare and safety. In order to become a citizen, they should have to pass a written and oral English test of very basic words and sentences, enough to get them by in an emergency. I do not ask them to give up one little smidgen of their heritage, customs, or habits, nor do I ask them to take on my customs and habits. But, by being to communicate with one another, we both learn about each others heritage and that hurts nobody. Those who come in to this country illegally - just go home. You are not welcome here. My forefathers struggled to get here by every legal means possible, and when they arrived, they made this country their home by merging in to the American society as best they could. Why should we allow illegals, from any country, smear the great accomplishments and reputations of those who are here legally? I'm going to Mexico for one week, and I've been practicing what little Spanish that I know, just so that I can politely ask questions, say hello, thank you, please, etc. in THEIR language. I consider that being courteous. If I moved there, I would LEARN Spanish. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Charlie on May 1st, 2006, 6:45pm This is one of those things like the Ten Commandments nonsense. What a waste of energy and time. Iran nukes, terrorism, deaths in Iraq, the cost of energy, health care, government corruption, African genocide, the incredible incompetent handling of Katrina, and so many other serious issues demanding real attention. What do we hear about? Spanish versions of the National Anthem. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/Clearly End SIGN.png Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by floridian on May 2nd, 2006, 3:09pm on 05/01/06 at 18:45:36, Charlie wrote:
Your right, Charlie. Nobody complained when the US State Department translated the national anthem into Spanish and published on the official government website. It's been up there for some time. http://usinfo.state.gov/esp/home/topics/us_society_values/national_symbols/anthem_spanish.html |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Ghost on May 2nd, 2006, 3:31pm Official language status The United States does not have an official language; nevertheless, American English (referred to in the US as simply English) is the language used for legislation, regulations, executive orders, treaties, federal court rulings, and all other official pronouncements. Additionally, one must demonstrate an ability to read, write, and speak English to become a naturalized citizen. Many individual states and territories have also adopted English as their official language: Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Carolina, North Dakota, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming Several states and territories are officially bilingual: New Mexico (English and Spanish), Hawaii (Hawaiian English and Hawaiian), Puerto Rico (Spanish and English), Guam (Chamorro and English), American Samoa (Samoan and English); And one is officially trilingual: Northern Mariana Islands (English, Chamorro, and Carolinian). Until the 1950s, Pennsylvania was officially bilingual in English and German. Native American languages are official or co-official on many of the US Indian reservations and pueblos. Just a thought. Is it Possible there is a common thread here? Lets see, American English in all 50 and Territories. Mike |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 2nd, 2006, 3:46pm http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060502/i/r2048252209.jpg Now thats a threat!....LMMFAO ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by clarence on May 2nd, 2006, 4:07pm on 04/30/06 at 13:55:43, floridian wrote:
Now that's funny!!! Stupid Protestants! Casey |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by BobG on May 2nd, 2006, 4:28pm My good friend Johnny Carson said this. At least I think it was him. Maybe not. It was a long time ago. Back about '91. And it probably doesn't fit in the thread but I don't care, I posting it anyway. ;;D "What Democracy Means to Me" To me, democracy means placing trust in the little guy, giving the fruits of nationhood to those who built the nation. Democracy means anyone can grow up to be president, and anyone who doesn't grow up can be vice president. Democracy is people of all races, colors, and creeds united by a single dream: to get rich and move to the suburbs away from people of all races, colors, and creeds. Democracy is having time set aside to worship --18 years if you're Jim Bakker. Democracy is buying a big house you can't afford with money you don't have to impress people you wish were dead. And, unlike communism, democracy does not mean having just one ineffective political party; it means having two ineffective political parties. Democracy means freedom of sexual choice between any two consenting adults. Utopia means freedom of choice between three or more consenting adults. But I digress. Democracy is welcoming people from other lands, and giving them something to hold onto -- usually a mop or a leaf blower. It means that with proper timing and scrupulous bookkeeping, anyone can die owing the government a huge amount of money. Democracy means a thriving heartland with rolling fields of Alfalfa, Buckwheat, Spanky, and Wheezer. Democracy means our elected officials bow to the will of the people, but more often they bow to the big butts of campaign contributors. Yes, democracy means fighting every day for what you deserve, and fighting even harder to keep other weaker people from getting what they deserve. Democracy means never having the Secret Police show up at your door.Of course, it also means never having the cable guy show up at your door. It's a tradeoff. Democracy means free television. Not good television, but free. Democracy is being able to pick up the phone and, within a minute, be talking to anyone in the country, and, within two minutes, be interruptedby call waiting. Democracy means no taxation without representation, and god knows,we've just about had the hell represented out of us. It means the freedom to bear arms so you can blow the "o" out of any rural stop sign you want. And finally, democracy is the eagle on the back of a dollar bill, with 13 arrows in one claw, 13 leaves on a branch, 13 tail feathers, and 13 stars over its head. This signifies that when the white man came to this country, it was bad luck for the Indians, bad luck for the trees, bad luck for the wildlife, and lights out for the American eagle. I thank you. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 2nd, 2006, 4:44pm May Day was a strike against America. It was a show of force, a demonstration of raw street power to force the government of the United States into granting to 12 million illegal aliens, who have broken our laws and broken into our country, not only the full benefits of U.S. citizenship, but full citizenship. It was brazen act of extortion to coerce Congress to grant amnesty now, and not to enforce our immigration laws or secure the Mexican border – or to be ready for big trouble in the streets. Congress cannot capitulate. The response of any Congress that calls itself American to such extortion should be a direct one: "We are not intimidated. There is going to be no amnesty. The border fence goes up this summer. Those are our non-negotiable answers to your non-negotiable demands. Demonstrate all you want. We're not capitulating." The message that would go out to the world would be electric: Congress will have said, first, that the United States will not be cowed by strikes or boycotts by law-breakers. Second, America intends to re-establish control of her border. Third, the invasion route from Mexico is going to be closed, forever. Fourth, those who come to America henceforth will be those we invite in. And, as guests, they will behave as guests – or they will be going back home. As for businesses that cannot get along without illegal foreign labor, if some of their CEOs are prosecuted and put to work in Arizona building that security fence, they will rapidly rediscover how to make a buck without colluding in an invasion of their country for commercial purposes. We are at a turning point in American history. In July of 1954, President Eisenhower, discovering that illegal aliens were pouring into the Southern United States at a rate of a million a year, put in motion Operation Wetback, which halted the invasion and sent back scores of thousands of illegals to Mexico. Many more returned voluntarily. Thirty years later, Ronald Reagan declared an amnesty for 3 million illegal aliens, conditioned on sanctions on U.S. businesses that did not cease to hire them. Following that amnesty, the flood began. Now we have 12 million illegals here. Between 2000 and 2005, 4.5 million were caught at the border. Four million are believed to have gotten in. No one knows exactly how many. Even Bush concedes that, among the illegals, one in 12 has a criminal record. If we have 12 million illegals here now, that means the U.S. government, in dereliction of its duty, has let into this nation in the last 20 years 1 million criminals – like Beltway sniper John Lee Malvo – to prey on American citizens. While almost half of all Mexicans, in a national poll, indicated a desire to move to the United States, the rest of the Third World has gotten the message. One in every 10 citizens of Central America and the Caribbean countries has already arrived. During the War on Terror, the number of those coming into the United States illegally from countries "other than Mexico" (OTM) has tripled. These OTMs are coming from as far away as China and Iraq. Fifteen years ago, when this writer ran in the California GOP primary against the first President Bush, calling for a border fence along the crucial 70 miles where illegals were massing and coming in by the thousands every day, there were 3 million to 4 million illegals here. Nothing was done. There are now 12 million. If these 12 million are amnestied and the border fence is not built along all 2,000 miles, the next amnesty will be for 20 million or 30 million. During the "Generals' Revolt," when half a dozen senior officers called for the firing of Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, President Bush saw a challenge to his authority and had to throw it back. If Congress does not throw back this challenge, if Congress now capitulates to this extortion, America should start shopping for a new Congress in November – an American Congress. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50009 |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Ghost on May 2nd, 2006, 4:56pm on 05/02/06 at 16:44:40, Jonny wrote:
[smiley=spit.gif] Jonny said Wetback [smiley=crackup.gif] [smiley=crackup.gif] [smiley=cowboy.gif] |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by floridian on May 2nd, 2006, 5:18pm on 05/02/06 at 16:44:40, Jonny wrote:
Not a word about the criminal conspiracy of US citizens that economically enable the illegal migration. Why imitate the French and put up a Maginot line across our southern border? The article admits that people from the Caribbean and China are here illegally - would the wall stop them? Build an impermeable wall and the job seekers will simply buy a plane ticket to Disney or any other tourist destination and never go back. Ever think about that when you were planning this wall?? I thought not. If you started locking up the US citizens that illegally hire undocumented workers, then the 12 million illegals would soon be on their way home. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 2nd, 2006, 5:24pm on 05/02/06 at 17:18:42, floridian wrote:
Not one word? " As for businesses that cannot get along without illegal foreign labor, if some of their CEOs are prosecuted and put to work in Arizona building that security fence, they will rapidly rediscover how to make a buck without colluding in an invasion of their country for commercial purposes." ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kidding Me? Post by medic1852 on May 2nd, 2006, 5:45pm Jonny and Floridian I have on my flame retardant suit cause I know both of you will jump on this with both feet. The way I see this whole problem started in the late 70's and early 80's. Industry got to where they said union had priced the American workers out of the work force making it to expensive to keep jobs in the US. Then President Reagan busted PACO and took the teeth away from unions. Then came NAFTA, and most companies went elsewhere since foreign labor was cheaper. Taking good paying jobs away form Americans. Then along with the fact that our whole lives we have been told we are better than that. We have convinced ourselves we are too good to pluck chickens, or pump gas for a living. Increasing the national debt since we prefer welfare over honest work. With all this in mind and the steady influx of immigrants who will do these jobs that most Americans wont. This has become the land of opportunity for the illeagals. That is why you all should vote for me for President as stated in my thread "In Case I Dissapear (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1146269179)". Rodger |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 2nd, 2006, 6:43pm http://www.rense.com/general70/ana.htm |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Charlie on May 3rd, 2006, 1:50am Yuz wanna wall? Try and build it without Mexican labor :o On the other hand, if you're really serious, let George & his oil slick pals give Halliburton one of those no bid contracts to do it. Can't miss. http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/themes/kolobok-light/images/smiles/thank_you2.gif? Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Ghost on May 3rd, 2006, 8:56am on 05/03/06 at 01:50:57, Charlie wrote:
You know Charlie that is almost as bad as saying only Mexican Labor can work farms or factories. We have more than enough qualified and able people in this country legally to build 10 walls, given they are paid a fair wage. If we want underpaid labor we have many in medium and minimum security prisons that can do it in record time and be compensated by early release or shortened parole. We also if desired to do so could use those caught in this country illegally put them on wall construction for 1 -10 weeks while waiting court date for immigration violations. If able to stay they get paid fair wage for theeir labor and stay if not able to stay get deported to country of origin and the wall labor is their fine. Now I will sit here and wait for the blasting. Mike |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Charlie on May 3rd, 2006, 6:34pm It's a joke! http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/user/kez_03.gif?SSImageQuality=Full Have to blame Jay Leno for it. Charile |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by deltadarlin on May 3rd, 2006, 7:11pm Ghostie, Define *fair wage*. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by maffumatt on May 3rd, 2006, 7:41pm on 05/03/06 at 01:50:57, Charlie wrote:
at least it would get done, good idea about the oilslick, think it would work by itself or would we have to set it alight............ |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 3rd, 2006, 7:51pm "They're afraid we're going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They're right. We will take them over. We are here to stay." -- Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Councilman "We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population . . . I love it. They are shitting in their pants with fear. I love it!" -- Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas "Remember 187--proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non-citizens--was the last gasp of white America in California." -- Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party "We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country . . . I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, 'I'm going to go out there and vote because I want to pay them back.'" -- Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave." -- Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations and California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare under Governor Jerry Brown, also awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Bill Clinton "We are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California." -- Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General "Go Mexican's"--Flo ;;D |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Charlie on May 3rd, 2006, 9:41pm Spanish was big as a language when I was in school in the 50s and 60s. It's not the hardest to learn, I'm told. It'll be helpful. I'm too old to imagine it replacing English. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/maddoor.gif Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by superhawk2300 on May 3rd, 2006, 10:48pm I try to be accepting of others. It is America, if someone wants to make up a new language and speak it, that is their freedom (if they are a citizen, that is). No one may understand them, but if they get by, and that is fine for them, and should be for me. If I go to their resturant becasue they make the best food in town then it is encumbant on ME to learn how to order in there, because them speaking their made up language is breaking no laws and it is *I* who need or want THEM. This is how capitolism works. So I hope, when in 8 or so years, when whites are the minority,outnumbered 10-1, and the non-whites have had time to figure out how to vote, and the phone message will say something I cannot understand FIRST (somehthing espanol something UNO) and then SECOND "To hear in English press 2", I hope that someone who speaks spanish will be very tolorant of me at the DMV, like I was tolorant of them now, because this is how majority representation works. It is coming, I beleive that I Reap What I Sow, and I am careful of what I sow. Aw who am I kidding, I'll be outta here long before that, which will be right after the far rights and far lefts have wrecked this place for all time. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Ghost on May 5th, 2006, 9:19am on 05/03/06 at 19:11:32, deltadarlin wrote:
Average wage paid to unskilled labor, new hires, ect doing this type of work already. Simple Mike |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by deltadarlin on May 5th, 2006, 7:31pm on 05/05/06 at 09:19:37, Ghost wrote:
No, it isn't quite so *simple*. Depends on the work would it not? If we're talking about illegals working in the fields/farms, there is no such thing a a *fair* wage. Also depends on the state, what is a *fair* wage in one state may not be considered a *fair* wage in another state once you adjust for the cost of living. Case in point~a couple of months ago, the local news ran a story on one of the construction crews that were working on a roadway. The workers were paid $15.00 an hour~and that is a livable wage. Okay, if it's so damned good, where were the gringos who should have been beating down the walls to work at this job (jobs in Louisiana don't pay that damned good to begin with). |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by CrystalAnn on May 5th, 2006, 8:00pm Ok I feel a little better I think if you feel like you have the right to come here then learn our ways all of them not just the ones you want too! ENGLISH is our way! Learn it! I am 28 almost 29 and until I got sick I worked full-time and my husband still work 40-60 hrs a week without ins.! for what so someone can come here from another country and get ins for free and be given everything they and and still not Speak english!! I went to the er last week I was treated for CH and sent home with what I am sure is going to be a huge bill and who will pay it ?? I will !! the lady that lives down the street gets free meds free care ect.. and she will not even SPEAK ENGLISH!! this is how I feel I am not bitter at all lol....... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 5th, 2006, 8:33pm on 05/05/06 at 19:31:59, deltadarlin wrote:
Could it be that its $15.00 with no health ins. or anything else ....just a base pay?........which most of them have bogus SS numbers and will never pay income taxes? Americans have to and do pay taxes out of fear of punishment....Wetbacks dont! Its time to put these employers in jail........first offense....one year in jail.....that will do it! |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Gena on May 5th, 2006, 8:48pm www.sendabrick.com Let your elected officals know how you feel. I can not take the time to protest in the streets, so this is my way of protesting. Let them know who they are supposed to be working for. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by CrystalAnn on May 5th, 2006, 10:31pm I have tried wrighting to congress to our mayor to city hall and no one cares to write back I called family services I was told I cannot get medical because my husband works and we do not have kids :( Fla don't care!!! :) |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by deltadarlin on May 6th, 2006, 10:12am Jonny, You still aren't *catching* what I was trying to say. $15.00 an hour is considered decent wages around here, whether you are paying taxes and have insurance or not. I don't make anywhere near that and I'm damned glad to have a job. Our economy in the northern part of the state is pretty much agribusiness based, have a little manufacturing, but not a whole lot. Also, the cost of living here is not through the roof. You are right, when you say that the employer needs to be taken to task for hiring illegals, BUT, jail time isn't the best answer either (if you do that, you will have whole corporations, such as Tyson that we will have to build jails for). What NEEDS to happen is that the government needs to follow and apply their own policies. Back in 1987 a law was passed that required all employers have their employers complete an I-9 form. The purpose of the I-9 was to verify eligibility for employment and MUST be completed before an employee can start to work. Info from government sites: "All U.S. employers are responsible for completion and retention of Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must verify the employment eligibility and identity documents presented by the employee and record the document information on the Form I-9. Acceptable documents are listed on the back of the form, and detailed below under "Special Instructions." *Here* is the link to questions about the I-9~ http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/EEV.htm And, some info on the fines/punishement associated with failure of an employer to complete an I-9 on each employee. Potential Penalties The employer’s first time penalties range from $100 - $3,000 depending upon the nature of the offense. Companies which engage in a pattern or practice of knowingly hiring unauthorized workers may face fines of up to $3,000 per employee and/or six months' imprisonment. So, what would accomplish the directive of stopping the influx of illegal aliens? Fine the sh*t out of employers that hire illegal aliens. Even at $100.00 a pop per employee, companies like Tyson would be paying hefty fines. Take those fines and use them to create a better program for everybody, including the illegal immigrants (many of whom really would like to try and enter the country legally and work legally rather than face deportation). 'darlin |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 6th, 2006, 12:05pm http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/sactodave/mexican.gif |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by superhawk2300 on May 7th, 2006, 12:46pm Quote:
Why not? The hard stance against the illegals is 100% jail for each of them, becasue "the law is the law and breaking the law makes one a criminal". Why do the white collar criminals get a break? To really look at it, if we just enforced the employer portion of the law - boom, no jobs, no illegals - but that that would require some intergity and accountibility and the desire to actually want to do what we are saying we want to do in the first place. The gov has been turing its back for decades - I don;t beleive for one minute that someone in Washington just figure out there are MILLIONS of people here working illegally. It is funny though, the conservatives in non-border states want to build a wall and jail/deport all offenders, but the conservatives in border states want "a middle of the road solution". Well, yeah - if a wall is built they will have to pay real wages AND the employer portion of the taxes. Money money money money money money money. No one has anything to worry about, almost. The rich whites in power will band together, make a law that allows immigrants to come here to work - legally, the "employers will be allowed to pay next to nothing for wages - legally, and the worker will pay ALL the taxes from their substandard paycheck to remain legal. That sounds just like what America is usually about, globally, but it won't stop any terroists from entering the country that way. Mark these words - it will happen and want props when it does. The crooks running the US government don't even care to hide their greed and self-serving behavior anymore, like they did in the good ol days. They know the rigged game can't be undone by the masses. Just like the fact that huge parts of Dodges, Fords and Chevys, for the longest time, have been mostly built in Mexico, using cheap mexican labor. There is a treaty that allows them to still use the "Made in America" concept even though they are not. If you buy a small one, like an S10 or a Ranger then a good protion of the parts are Japanese as well. So you got a Jap-part car assembled in Mexico and people driving these still bitch about supporting the USA economies and yell at me on my 98% American (Ohio) made Honda, complete with USA Flag and Certification "Made in USA", to quit supporting terrorists with my foreign purchases. US politics has got the general population afraid of EVERYTHING, and are great at using it to keep themselves in power. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Tom K on May 7th, 2006, 1:07pm What a riot! A few posts on here actually have ideas toward a solution, the others just want to throw Bush and other conservatives under the bus at every chance they get. [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]"Don't build a wall, don't tighten the boarders...yada, yada, yada" Fine, when the next terrorist attack comes, these same people, the 20% of the US population that doesn't want to lock down the boarder, will be the first to jump up and down and bitch and moan that "We should have seen it coming. Bush should have done something. The Evil Republicans worked with the terrorist to plan this to stay in power...yada, yada, yada." Give me a break people, you can't have it both ways. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Charlie on May 7th, 2006, 1:54pm Quote:
Works for me. It's hard to imagine being subject to a worse occupying force in the White House. Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Jonny on May 7th, 2006, 5:33pm on 05/07/06 at 13:54:22, Charlie wrote:
Gee, Clinton had the mastermind in his cross hairs three times and did nothing, Osama was in custody and Clinton didnt want him. I think Ill stick with this white House. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by superhawk2300 on May 7th, 2006, 5:59pm Quote:
Tom, the problem is it is getting close to election time and the wall soution will piss off all the cons in the red states in the SW that have business dependant on the illegal labor force (never mind that this is worse that the illegals themselves) and if they don't do anything the cons in the states not in the SW will pissed. Doesn't matter what the correct solution is, it isn't about that, it is about votes and money. My scenario will play out as soon as they can concoct the terroism spin for it just right. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by deltadarlin on May 7th, 2006, 6:46pm on 05/07/06 at 12:46:17, superhawk2300 wrote:
I actually agree here, but just in a different way. Why do we need to make new laws build, new jails to put new criminals in when there is already a law on the book that can be easily enforced? Fine the hell out of the corporations/people that hire illegal alliens! If that law is enforced, you'd easily have enough money to build a wall AND hire new border patrols to work them. Do the math, if there are 12 million illegal aliens in the country, let's assume that 80% of those are working illegally. That gives you approximately 9.6 million that are working here. If the employer has to pay the least fine, that being $100.00 (corporations with large numbers of illegals employed would pay the maximum fine of $3000.00 per hiree), that's 96 million that goes back into the budget. Which is the better solution? Putting all those Tyson execs in prison, which you and I have to pay for their lily white a$$ to stay there (figures range approximately from $16,000.00 per year to $26,000.00for convicted felons). DO THE MATH! |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by superhawk2300 on May 7th, 2006, 6:58pm I see your math, it just seems incongruent to me. If we are jailing people for this, then lets jail people. If we are handing out slaps on the wrist than give everyone a slap on the wrist. If anything, the harsher penalties should go to the employers, becasue they are the ones, when they break the law, that create the opportunites for others to break the law. If they don't hire illegals, illegals won't work, if they can't work they won't come. Problem solved. And if we jail execs for hiring these people it will be a lot less jailed people than starting to jail the illegals, one at a time. If you think housing the miniscule numbers of company execs (compared to number of illegals) is expensive, try housing and deporting 12 million people - just so they can leak back as others are being deported. And just because the individuals who have been creating an illegal workforce are in jail doesn't mean the companies still shouldn't pay fines! I really think this is a simple case of cause and effect. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Tom K on May 7th, 2006, 8:21pm on 05/07/06 at 13:54:22, Charlie wrote:
Exactly the response I was looking for from you, Charlie...where is the hook, line and sinker smilie? |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Tom K on May 7th, 2006, 8:23pm on 05/07/06 at 17:33:28, Jonny wrote:
Didn't Charlie bitch about that when Clinton was in, too? Is there anyone who would be the "right" president for you, Charlie? Let me guess, he hasn't voted in 20 years or so, either.... |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Charlie on May 7th, 2006, 11:50pm Quote:
Clinton actually took a shot and missed but was a lot closer. Bush missed by three countries. The Bush cronies are incapable of error. Just ask them. Nothing bad that happens has anything to do with them. Quote:
http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/hook.gif Charlie |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by BarbaraD on May 8th, 2006, 7:44am Delta is right about the I-9s BUT who checks them? I've been complying with that law since it went into force back in 87 and have to yet to see ONE being checked. I had one client (got rid of him before I got into trouble) who ran a factory and had NO legal employees. He had a RED LIGHT in the factory that could be flipped on if he were checked (if the INS came thru the front door). His shop would just disappear before the INS could get to the back. He used FAKE SS#s for these "guest workers" so he could write off wages. There's nothing right about that when the unemployment rate in this area was at an all time high. The only solution I see is that INS start doing their jobs and VISAs be checked and illegal aliens be kept up with (as in other countries). Maybe we should go to a Passport system like other countries, but it just seems to me that if other countries can keep up with who's in their country American should be able to do so also. If an illegal is picked up - send them back to where they came from. If they want to come to American, let them go thru the proper channels to get here. Do NOT give them any FREE stuff - save it for taxpayers HERE! (If we get sick in another country we're going to PAY the bills - I can assure you that cause I've had it happen.) Employers who hire these "guest workers" should be penalized and if it warrants it - sent to jail. But to do this - the government MUST do their job! Right now they seem to want to put a bandaide on a gapping wound. And that will just compound the problem. November is coming folks. My solution - get everyone in office OUT and get some NEW people in -- if they don't do what WE want get them out the next election. I just can't see the point of CAREER politicians. Term limits should be a priority, but this bunch will never vote for it - they've have it too good for too long. But if everyone sits on their behinds and just complains NOTHING will get done. Every American who has an opinion needs to let their CONGRESSMAN and SENATOR know their opinions. Then if the jerks vote against OUR opinions - get them out of office. But till AMERICA gets INVOLVED we'll never accomplish anything except to bitch about how bad things are. Hugs BD |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by deltadarlin on May 8th, 2006, 8:46am on 05/08/06 at 07:44:32, BarbaraD wrote:
My point exactly. We dont' need new laws on the books, we just need to enforce those that are there already. |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by PL259 on May 8th, 2006, 9:37pm WTF is the problem people. ILLEGAL= breaking the law. As a U.S. citiczen you pay the price in fines, or jail. Get a fucking life.Obey the law or pay the price. Nuff said |
||||
|
Title: Re: Are You Friggin Kiddin Me? Post by Goblin on May 9th, 2006, 4:54pm on 05/03/06 at 19:11:32, deltadarlin wrote:
Can I answer for you? I will any way. Fair wage would be average starting wage for construction labor. Unskilled labor at starting pay is usually $8.00-$10.00 per hour. That would be alot more than what they make now and at least they would be able to earn an income until properly deported. My take that is. |
||||
|
Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1! YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved. |