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Title: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 16th, 2006, 11:46pm My boss told me today that she talked to HER boss, and I had to speak with the director at University Health Services. Apparently, when there's a case of someone requesting accomodations for medical reasons, they have to have an appt with her to discuss what's been going on. So I went to see her today. She read the letter I'd brought written by the neuro NP. Started me on the defensive from the first second because she said to me, "Sounds like you've had these headache problems for a long time, and you just started your job in June. Didn't you know you'd have problems working night shift? Why did you take the job?" It only got worse from there. She said at one point with all the medical things I have going on, she was starting to seriously doubt my ability to work at all. She asked why I hadn't looked into a 9-5 job in nursing. I told her that I'm there on scholarship, and they don't have floor nursing jobs from 9-5...besides, I love what I do. She told me about how people try to manipulate the system by bringing in a note from their doctor, and when the end result isn't what they'd like, they tend to really regret it. In the end, she told me she'd support my going to day/evening shift, but she wanted to see me in a month to evaluate my medical conditions. At that point, I told her that I do think changing shifts will help, but don't expect this to be a cure. She told me that I had better realize that she'll sign this form, but my boss may say she doesn't have a day/evening position for me and then they'll have to find another position for me in the hospital. She said that just as I may regret having done some of the treatments I've done in the past that caused very bad adverse effects to me, then I should think about the fact that if I pursue this letter and I don't get the outcome I want by having to take a different position, I may regret that, too. I cried. I started to say something, and then I said, "There are just no words." In reality, there are plenty of words, but I couldn't have said them to her. She made me feel like I have to be punished for asking for a reasonable accomodation...for a disability that I don't want in the first place. I never asked for this. The letter had to be serious enough to warrant me being able to have the accomodation, but they then look at the serious-ness of the letter and say that if things are this bad, then I shouldn't work. So basically why should they make accomodations for me? Their accomodations aren't accomodations at all. They're punishing me when I've already been "punished" beyond belief by what I've had to go through - both physically and mentally through all this. Man... now I'm crying yet again. It's just not fair. And I never say that because I know nothing in life is fair, but God how I wish someone, for once, would say, "Wow I'm sorry you had to go through all that - let me help you make this a little easier for you to handle since you've already tried so hard." Seems that just doesn't happen - she acted like I was trying to work the system. Like I'm some deviant. I don't understand why it seems that sometimes people who work in health care are the LEAST understanding of health problems out of anyone. I can't understand it because I'm not that way. Sometimes I feel shocked when I get in situations like that. I didn't really have anything good I could have said. Felt like I was talking in circles trying to justify why I was not working the system. Justifying that I'd been through a lot but can still handle my job. Justify that I didn't deliberately plan this whole thing by lying to my boss when I was hired. Not only that, but it's already hard enough because I know people at work were already upset that this other girl went to day/evening from day/night due to diabetes. Can't even trust your friends or coworkers not to get mad at you for something you have no control over. Sorry to vent all this. It's been a bad day, and now I feel trapped. I feel like I need to advocate for myself in order to continue to work and stay as healthy as I can be - but I would rather crawl under a rock than have to deal with all this. I don't need people to make me feel like a bad person who uses their illness as an excuse. I've battled with anxiety over that plenty enough on my own...which has kept me from ever asking for an accomodation for myself. Have any advice for how I should best handle this situation? I'm a little at a loss for what to do. Torn between what I know is best for me but a fear that this will come down on me by bad evaluations or having my job suffer. It's like watching the movie "Philadelphia" and other disability cases. They can twist the reasoning around so far that it really puts you in a bind. That's why I never talked about my headaches and other problems when applying for schools or jobs. I figured they'd find some dumb reason to say why I wasn't good enough for the job when in reality it may have been because of my disability - but unless you have solid proof, it's a hard fight to win. <sigh> Sorry - I don't mean to complain this much. I'm just so frustrated that I could scream... |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by CHTom on Mar 17th, 2006, 12:35am Carrie, I feel for you. When my CH returned after a one year pause-6 months after I returned to work after having been on disability retirement for almost 4 years- I too felt devastated and wondered if I should have just kept my disability pension and worked to supplement it when I felt better (which still hasn't happened and probably won't for a couple of years if my DBS operation works). I do have a question for you, for something that you wrote wasn't clear to me: when you applied for your job, did you write about your disability on your application or did you just let it be made known recently? If it is the latter, you might want to contact a lawyer who specializes in such cases and see what he/she has to say about your situation. I work for the US Government and by law they must try to find a reasonable accomodation for your disability, but if the disability was present when you took the job, then you must have let it be known when you applied, otherwise it can appear as if you deliberately withheld that information; if you then request special accomodation because of your disability, there is a chance that you can be charged with being untruthful on your application and you may not be entitled to the normal protections that a disabled person has. Let me know if I am wrong, but it appears that when you applied for your job you did not list your CH and perhaps your other medical problems on your application, all the more reason for consulting an attorney. My best wishes that all turns out well for you. |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by E-Double on Mar 17th, 2006, 7:41am It does sometimes appear that compassion is lacking in healthcare just as I find an abundance of idiots in education :-/. Try to get a tru understanding in your field and try to educate an educator who thinks they know it all! [smiley=huh.gif] I wish you the very best my friend. The only real disclosures I made were to the medical dept/ of HR, this way they have my info on file and that it could not come back to bite me in the ass, just in case, though I know it is different then being virtually crippled. I will of course educate my immediate staff and superiors but I did not think that it was important to get started with or risk the "I get a headache too" Do what you need to survive my dear, then make the best! Prove the world wrong!!!! You rock! :-* |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by chewy on Mar 17th, 2006, 7:54am Quote:
To some extent she is correct. I coordinate all Requests for Reasonable Accomodations for my company. One requirement is that I have direct contact with the health care provider for verification. Only once have I ever had an individual bring in a forged letter not knowing I would require direct contact with the health care provider. She has a duty to fully inform you but using language like "really regret it" is inappropriate. Quote:
Completely innappropriate. An RA is based on a snapshot in time. If an RA is approved it may be conditional on a service plan agreement but she had no right to question any earlier motivations that placed you in your current situatiuon.. A RA has two parts. Verification of disabilty and verification of need for the accomodation. Neither of which was her call unless the disabilty and the need are known and apparant. Then she could just approve it and move on. I have processed hundreds of RAs. In three years only 2 have been declined. One was the forged letter, one was a health care provider declining to verify the disability. From what you've posted I could say that half the conversation she had with you was unneccesary and inappropriate. |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by Sean_C on Mar 17th, 2006, 9:07am on 03/17/06 at 07:54:59, chewy wrote:
My thoughts exactly Sean........................... |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by Opus on Mar 17th, 2006, 9:16am on 03/16/06 at 23:46:05, Lizzie2 wrote:
I thought that the new problems that came after you started school were responsible for your special needs now. I know it was a difficult situation and it would be hard to explain at the time why you need the accommodations at this time. Maybe writing a letter explaining that you are required to work there and problems like your wrist didn't start after starting work. I know this isn't why you asked for accommodations but having additional stresses don't help you deal with your HA's any better. They will probably accommodate you because you are required to work for a period of time. In the real world, they would move you to somewhere that accommodates you but that they know you can't do, then lay you off for bad performance. I know you love neonatal but maybe working as a nurse for a pediatrician would be just as fulfilling. Maternity might also be an option. We all face the dilemma of wanting to do something and having to settle for what out head will let us do. Opus/Paul |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by Charlie on Mar 17th, 2006, 11:47am Sorry about this. Sometimes having an obvious physical handicap is better than having one that is intermittent. My experience with epilepsy is just that. It would be nice if you could carefully let this woman see a copy of your post.....with a little editing of course. I thought it was pretty good. Some good advice here though. You're gonna do all right. You ain't no wimp. http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/he_and_she/girl_sigh.gif?SSImageQuality=Full Charlie |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by chewy on Mar 17th, 2006, 12:42pm Quote:
Wont work. Each request has to be specific to the condition. Two requests would need to be made. One for the CH and one for the wrist condition. Not a big deal if your willing to have both verified. Just make two requests. Irregardless, the approach was unprofessional, uneccesary and possibly illegal. In fact when I process a request I can not legally ask what the disabilty is. All that is required for verification is a health care professional stating you have a disability and the accomodation is neccesary. |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by Sean_C on Mar 17th, 2006, 3:51pm on 03/17/06 at 12:42:20, chewy wrote:
Just curious, is this a state guide line or federal? I just didn't want her to assume thats all. Cheers [smiley=me&mb.gif] Sean............................ |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by deltadarlin on Mar 17th, 2006, 4:31pm Here is what the ADA says on the matter. Who Is Protected Under the ADA? The ADA protects qualified individuals with disabilities. An individual with a disability is a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits major life activities; has a record of such an impairment; or is regarded as having such an impairment. Major life activities means functions such as caring for one's self, performing manual tasks, walking, seeing, hearing, speaking, breathing, learning and working. Under the ADA, a qualified individual with a disability is an individual with a disability who meets the essential eligibility requirements for receipt of services or participation in programs or activities. Whether a particular condition constitutes a disability within the meaning of the ADA requires a case-by-case determination. As to an employer knowing beforehand or asking about a disability.... Employers may not ask job applicants about the existence, nature or severity of a disability. Applicants may be asked about their ability to perform specific job functions. A job offer may be conditioned on the results of a medical examination, but only if the examination is required for all entering employees in similar jobs. Medical examinations of employees must be job related and consistent with the employer's business needs. |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by chewy on Mar 17th, 2006, 6:40pm Quote:
Federal. In my case the regulator is Housing and Urban Development. |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 17th, 2006, 10:49pm I don't have time to write much, but thanks for the responses. Every one's advice is very much appreciated. I was supposed to touch base with my boss today, but it was a crazy day. At one point, I started to say something to her, but she walked away. Looks like she and the nurse who do the schedule amended my April schedule so I work all days and only 2 nights. I have to work some weekend shifts that are not on my weekend, but I'll take it because they did what they could to accomodate me. I was feeling so badly about this whole thing that I contemplated emailing her to say that I'd work nights on my weekend. I work every 3rd weekend. I had an appt with my psychiatrist today and he told me that I shouldn't be trying to accomodate them - they need to accomodate me. I cried through the entire appt telling him what had happened. Just makes me feel so terrible for a lot of different reasons... My psychiatrist told me that I need to just focus on doing what is best for me and not worrying about what others think. I told him that it's not that simple. I know I need the accomodation and that's what's best for me. But if they now are overscrutinizing me and all this stuff has happened, well - to do what is best for me is to get myself out of the situation, and the only way to do that is to just say forget the whole request. It's not the right thing to do, though. It's just that doing what is best for me as far as the schedule may not be what is best for me physically or emotionally if they keep making this difficult. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the accomodations my boss made over the past few days. I just feel very insecure, and worse about myself than ever before because I feel like people think I'm not "good enough" to do my job. The letter written was in regards to my having chronic daily migraine, chronic cluster headache, and basilar migraine. The NP wrote about how important it is for me to have a regular sleep schedule. She wrote about how I need to be taking my meds at the same time every day. She also wrote about how I've been unable to obtain effective doses because it's so difficult to switch shifts and keep dosing up. Therefore, I don't see benefits of things that may actually help me. Ultimately the biggest reason for needing to go to day/evening shift instead of day/night rotation is because I have many doctors appts every week, also including physical therapy and tests, lab work, etc. When I work night shift, I have to conform to the fact that doctors offices are on a day shift schedule. While everyone else on night shift goes home to sleep, I stay after sometimes for 4-5 hours. Then I only get 1-3 hours sleep, which sets me up to have more health problems because of lack of sleep and difficulty with schedule. That's primarily what we based the letter on. The whole thing just saddens me. I don't want my boss to think I'm ungreatful...I guess I'm just a lot more anxious and insecure now about my job and even more sensitive about my own health issues than ever before - and how people are perceiving them and me. I sort of feel traumatized by that meeting with the university health services doc yesterday. Playing it back in my mind, I wish I had said things differently or said other things in some cases than I did say. Just because it's hard to say the right thing when someone forces you to go on the defensive about a very personal topic. I've been reduced to tears several times in the past couple of days. I guess I just don't really know what to make of it. I don't understand why the woman acted the way she did towards me really. I mean, I understand wanting to dissuade people from asking for accomodations in a way, but I would never ever do that. Maybe it's because I'm a nurse, and part of my job is to be a patient advocate... I just can't understand someone being so cruel and critical. Especially when it's about something that I can't help. As if what I've gone through isn't bad enough - people like her just make it 10,000 times worse. Don - Are there any good references I can read that may help me out here? I don't know if I'm actually going to need to take further action or if this is kind of solved. I feel like I can never ask for anything else again. I remember once getting upset in nursing school because I got a C+ in neuropsych pharmacology (my best subject) because of being in the hospital and then missing because a job interview went long. My advisor told me I was unappreciative of the accomodations they'd made for my missing so much time and being in the hospital. It wasn't that... It's just that it doesn't give them the right to screw me every other way and expect me to be greatful for it. I read through some stuff online through ADA website, but I'd love a hardcopy of something I can read when not at the computer. I just don't know where this will go next. Thanks very much for all the support and input. Hugz, Carrie :) |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by chewy on Mar 17th, 2006, 11:24pm Check your PMs. Quote:
The number of RAs you request is not limited but the key word is REASONABLE so be prepared to negotiate and possibly compromise with whomever is providing the accomodation. |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by BlueMeanie on Mar 17th, 2006, 11:54pm Lizzie, Don't beat yourself up over it. You did the right thing by asking for reasonable accomidations. Even though the lady may have been a smart ass during your interview, it sounds like she is at least attempting to help you out. I hope you can keep a permanent day shift as you asked; and that it helps you get back to good physical and mental condition. Keep the faith, things will get better. |
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Title: Re: (Lack of) Accomodations for disability... Post by chewy on Mar 18th, 2006, 8:26am Quote:
Quote:
Do either one of these things and the credibility of the request will be in question. |
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