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Title: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 16th, 2006, 7:50pm http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4db37b3127cce9fbec0c4e2a900000016108AZM2bNk5bM6 http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4db37b3127cce9fbec0c5639800000016108AZM2bNk5bM6 http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4db37b3127cce9fbec0c7639a00000016108AZM2bNk5bM6 I dont rant often, but this one has set a fire under my ass!!!!! As you can see from the pics that I have busted my balls building a wall around my castle (Gargoyles included), its about to be torn down. Not by intruders, but by the God Damn city! Yesterday there was a note in my mailbox to contact the city traffic engineer, I called his ass today and he came over with his blueprints. He tells me that they are widening the road and that they will need to move the light pole inwards, this means my wall will have to come out. I asked him if he was moving anything onto my property, he said no.....your wall extends seven feet over the property line onto city property.......TO WHICH I SAID......How come the sidewalk that was put in 30 years ago is not seven feet further in?....just a dumbass look on his face with no answer. I asked what the worst case scenerio would be, he said...moving your wall back seven feet....to which I replied....I will have a survey team out here Monday, if your taking my land you will God Damn pay for it!!!$$ Anyone out there know anyone that deals with this shit....the value of my house is going to take a hit on this one. Sorry for the rant, but I was about to start breaking shit! |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by medic1852 on Feb 16th, 2006, 7:55pm You have a right to rant and I don't blame you one bit. big brother is just too big for his britches sometimes. I am on your side 100%. Not a lot of good that will do you from Kentucky, none the less I support you! Edited: From the looks of your lawn they take seven foot you wont have room for a lawn chair..Tell city concil kiss it.. [smiley=moonwiggle.gif] Rodger [smiley=bigguns.gif] |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Melissa on Feb 16th, 2006, 7:58pm Holy shit, 7 feet is a LOT! Damn, sorry Jonny! I don't know how things are done in MA. I do know that around here, we have to go something like, 30(?) feet from the center line of the road. :-/ Wish I could help... :-* |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Sean_C on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:04pm Dude that wall looks mint too ;;D Definately cool ;;D Any Land Survey Company can find out if its documented property of the City. I know you have to look deep, so it may cost a few buck but alot of records can prove that the property might actually be your and not the city's. Don't take those fuckin cronies for granted, they'd fuck ya in a second. Besides that tell them its a saftey issue and start up a neighborhood steering committee. I'm sure one of your neighbors would be willing to make it happen and take charge, I know you guys are busy. Kick there asss bro, WE ARE THE PEOPLE AND THEY KNOW YOU VOTE. Your voices will be heard dude ;;D I've seen projects like that get turned around, you CAN change it ;;D Call Hedlund TOMORROW, for real dude, he will talk to you. Sean.................................................. edit to add: Why did you take down the rainbow flag?? It was all you dude ;;D ;;D |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:05pm Thanks folks, they are putting in a traffic light three houses up the street and want to make my side of the road two lanes as it comes up to the light. The guy next to me is going to lose 12 feet or more. No one will ever convince me that his wall and mine (Which are in line) are that far on city property. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by cootie on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:13pm Well I know of cases where that has happen'd even out here in the boonies and there isn't nothin ya can really do......they can actually charge you by the day if they want to get down and dirty.......a friend bought an old two story house about 4 miles down the road several years ago at an estate auction and he had some plans to fix it up. It has a hill that cuts straight up up against one wall and guess part of the house had caved in and the old lady that lived there just 'closed off' the room. So anyhow the house was only about 20 foot if that off the narrow little back road that goes past it. The county decided to widen the bridge and road rite there and he freaked out and left the house set. Nothin he could do and the road is now about 5 foot from his window and door so any plans of a front porch went down the tubes. Man is that house ever close and dumb ass people fly down that road now days. Then it has a narrow stip of land in back along that steep hill and a big creek on other side of the strip. The septic needed upgraded (house is probly old as this one 200 yrs plus) for anyone to LIVE in it.......so they came out to plan a new updated one and found out he does not have enuff property for one so the house is now inhabitabal !!!! No one is allowed to live there and there is NO WAY around the septic problem cuz there's not enuff level land to even build one with bare minimun requiremnts to pass. And can't be too close to that creek either that runs thru alot of peoples yards to the river not far. Talk about fucked. Nother friend got fined sumthin like 250 a day for puttin up a small garage where the city said he couldn't have one.....he didn't know at the time and no building permit cuz it wasn't very big. So he torched it !!! The city put in new septic too outside of town and people HAD to pay for hookup to remain liveing in there houses......most had to borrow about 10 to 14 grand !!! He bought it 'as is' and didn't read between the lines and no one told him of the pending issues esp with new rules and regulations on septic stuff. Rules are anal-istic Pam Ya mite HAVE to go along with what they say like it or not.......what a pisser.......I know my freind was FLAMEING MAD about that house he bought and lost his ass on. It is still vacant and falling apart now......he lost some bucks and tried to fight it but nothin he could do cuz the county owned the property rites they were TAKEING. A friend is a co survey'r and he said that is how it is. Sorry.......hopein you can find a loop hole ?? |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:19pm on 02/16/06 at 20:13:41, cootie wrote:
I dont think so, if its my land which I know it is.....they pay, thats the law as I know it ;;D |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Chillrmn1 on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:26pm That Sucks! Hope the land turns out being yours......if they're going to take it, at least make 'em pay thru the nose for it. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by nani on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:27pm Actually, bro, it's pretty common. The local government often owns a slice of land between sidewalks and property lines for utility access. They leave it unpaved so that if any lines need to be worked on, they don't have to dig up the sidewalk. You have a right to ask for the map that proves where exactly it is. That's a great wall. Damn shame. :'( |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by thebbz on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:34pm [smiley=twocents.gif]Mr. King, State and local laws vary. Typically the road is surveyed with a centerline, width, and an easment for future widening. These vary as local engineers traffic plans and such. Most housing areas zoned for residential are surveyed to these roadways regardless of easyways sometimes. The survey of your property will tell you where the easement is. Compare that survey with legal description to his blueprint They usually get that easement. Some class action determinations have went the other way Anymore and they pay. Its worth the retainer depending...Big brother bastards. [smiley=bash.gif] jb |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:35pm on 02/16/06 at 20:27:05, nani wrote:
Seven feet? |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Sean_C on Feb 16th, 2006, 8:38pm on 02/16/06 at 20:19:37, Jonny wrote:
You wanna borrow my piece, it should get there attention ;;D http://www.fun.from.hell.pl/2004-02-05/big_gun.jpg |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 16th, 2006, 9:05pm You could build a moat around your castle, fill it with all the trolls from here and then tell them to bring it on..They probably wouldn't want to touch your property with a ten-ft. pole. [smiley=bigguns.gif] jest tryin to help, Linda |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Karla on Feb 16th, 2006, 9:31pm From the street in, the first 7 or 8 feet are the cities. It has a tree and grass and streetlight. Followed by a sidewalk, followed by some utility lines. I had to reimburse the city for that tree and pay for its upkeep. I was told I could do what I wanted on that strip of land ie meaning I could plant bushes or flowers there, but reminded it was the cities land and they could do what they wanted with that land at any time. Another words destroy my flower bed! I am expected to mow that chunk of land. Maybe I should send the city a bill for upkeep and maintance of their land?!!! Good luck with your fight Jonny! I would hire a surveyer and find out exactly where your property line is. You may be suprised. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by jimmers on Feb 16th, 2006, 10:21pm jonny, I'm sure if you didn't shovel the property that supposedly doesn't belong to you, THEY will fine you. In the words of Buford T. Justis (Smokey and the Bandit) "What the hell is the world comin to?" This is BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jimmers >:( |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by KingOfPain on Feb 16th, 2006, 10:48pm Eminent domain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain ===================================== Boston, Massachusetts, Eminent Domain Lawyers: http://lawyers.findlaw.com/lawyer/firm/Eminent-Domain/Boston/Massachusetts :) |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jasmyn on Feb 17th, 2006, 3:07am Cool wall! 8) Fight them, if it's yours its yours! |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by gore2424 on Feb 17th, 2006, 3:24am first i want to say to Jonny WOW your yard looks great wish I could get my yard to go with it and second I hope you nail them I put my $ on you in any kind of fight and to Sean_C WOW what a gun damn Terry |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Charlie on Feb 17th, 2006, 4:03am I agree that it sucks Jonny. http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/personal/vinsent.gif?SSImageQuality=Full Still..... here in my town, the city owns the land several feet from the curb inward. It made more sense in my old neighborhood where there actually was a sidewalk. It's a pretty common thing. What you can do though is get together with the neighbors and erect some really hideous stuff now and then so they have to go out of their way to deal with you. http://www.schildersmilies.de/schilder/conspy.gif Charlie |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by KingOfPain on Feb 17th, 2006, 5:53am More info: Eminent Domain - Boston, Massachusetts Bill seeks to restrict eminent domain http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/08/09/bill_seeks_to_restrict_eminent_domain/?page=full Make eminent domain fair for all http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/08/12/make_eminent_domain_fair_for_all/ ====================================== http://tinyurl.com/7m4ux [original web address reduced using Tiny URL] From the above website: The Use of Eminent Domain in Massachusetts Michael Malamut: The Pioneer study “The Power to Take: The Use of Eminent Domain in Massachusetts” is an historical review of data on eminent domain practice, comparing Massachusetts with the most advanced practices in the rest of the country. Massachusetts eminent domain practice compares favorably in effecting most takings through the quick-take process, which gives the condemnee a relatively large damage award up front, preventing months and years of litigation before a condemnee can receive anything. We collected data on takings in nine municipalities in Middlesex County and in the City of Boston over a 13-year period. Out of all the data that we collected, 53 percent of all takings were for road repair and road building. This has been the leading category since colonial times. Almost all the remaining takings were for traditional government purposes: municipal services, conservation, public transportation, public utilities. Although 11 percent of takings were for urban renewal, almost all of those were takings from government bodies. Because the Boston Redevelopment Authority is also the planning authority for the City of Boston, often it effects takings from other government agencies to speed up the process. Only 1 percent of all takings from private property owners were for purposes of urban renewal. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by karma on Feb 17th, 2006, 6:54am Quote:
Smart man!Why argue if you think your right? If you build on someone elses property its no one's fault but your own. If you didn't then they the survey records will prove it. Whats the big deal? Its shame though, looks like seven feet is about where the flagpole is. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by maffumatt on Feb 17th, 2006, 7:02am I would be pissed.............. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by chewy on Feb 17th, 2006, 7:13am http://yellowpages.superpages.com/listings.jsp?SRC=promo17&QCID=2704572035513&C=Attorneys&STYPE=S&L=Boston+MA&MC=1&OO=1&F=1&CP=Legal+%26+Financial%5EAttorneys%5EReal+Estate%5EEminent+Domain+%26+Condemnation Quote:
If thats true then Eminant Domain shouldn't apply. Get it surveyed. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BarbaraD on Feb 17th, 2006, 8:00am Jonny, Don't take it laying down. They DO have the right (wrong as it may be) to take the land, but you can fight it. They are required to pay you. ( and you can be a horse's butt about how much and keep it tied up for a long long time). My advice is get your neighbors together and FIGHT it. Go to the council meetings and GIVE reasons (get a lawyer if you need one) but have your ducks in a row when you get there - don't just yell. The news media is always good - make it into a news story. that always puts pressure on the politicians and makes them accountable for their actions. Look pitiful on the 11 o'clock news - this is your home and you've put all this time, money and effort into it and now they're taking your life-blood -- get the picture? Do NOT yell! Just be pitiful. Let the politicians do the yelling above that one. Enough pubic outrage and they may just change their minds. And BTW, your yard is beautiful. Fight 'em.... Eminent domain should have been taken off the books a long time ago. It contridicts the Freedom to own and enjoy property. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by chewy on Feb 17th, 2006, 8:05am I wouldn't advise fighting anything until you have a survey done so you know where you stand. Literally! |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Racer1_NC on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:01am If the laws in Massachusetts are anywhere close to NC this is not a case of eminent domain. The owner of the public street (city, county, or state makes no difference) has a 30 foot (or more) right of way from the centerline of the road in both directions. They can do anything they so desire with that right of way.....widen the road, build a sidewalk, etc. A proper plat map of the area will normally show that right of way along with utility easements crossing the property and building set backs. With the info Jonny has posted so far, my best guess is he's screwed. A survey and a legal opinion are in order to be sure but the fact the local government has not had to negotiate with him for land use or file a court case to force eminent domain tells me he's out of luck. Some flunky in a government owned pickup truck can't just appear one day and take your land for a road. There are proceedures that must be followed if it's a eminent domain case. If they are exercising the right of way......pull up a chair and watch the bulldozers go to work....nothing you can do. Bill |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jimi on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:40am What is just as bad, after looking at the pics, is that when they take 7 feet, traffice will be going by right outside your front porch. That is a little too close for comfort. I'm with Racer though. It certainly is worth looking into, but your hands may be tied. Good luck to you. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by echo on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:44am Sorry to read of this new development in your life. The city truly does not know who they are dealing with. Unlike some others you will not take this at their word without proof. I hope the best for you. That wall is damn nice. Great work bro. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by sandie99 on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:51am Jonny, the wall looks great! :) I do hope that things work out for the best... Sanna |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Margi on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:57am naw, Jonny - let 'em do it. THEN Nice hostas! |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by minnie on Feb 17th, 2006, 10:01am [smiley=nono.gif] [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=sayno.gif] Awe man Jonny I am so sorry you've obviously put alot of time,thought and money into making their yards nicley if the city is just gonna walk in and destroy it, Minnie |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by imnotbub on Feb 17th, 2006, 10:33am I know axactly what is happening. The same thing was done to a home on a corner here in South Jersey where they widened the road for a signaled turn. The road is now so close to the front of the house that they had to put a cement driveway next to the house to make up for the fact that the previous driveway was now too short to allow a car to be parked in it without sticking out into the road. I don't care how much they got from the gov't for it, if it was less than the total value of the house, they got robbed. They now have a bedroom window about 5 feet form the intersection with the other side yard paved with the 'new' driveway. This eminent domain shit is really getting out of hand here in Jersey. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by burnt-toast on Feb 17th, 2006, 10:36am Deed Says... Your deed should absolutely contain information related to any right-of-ways/easements that overlap your property. Existing infrastructure should be defined along with any land dedicated to future expansion. Good first step in understanding what your rights are. Survey Says... This is and absolute must for you to challenge anything that your local government is up to. Survey will establish the legal boundries of your property. You may even find that you actually own into the road where it is constructed today but there is one more step you must take because your property might not really be your property. Ordinance(s) Says... This is also an absolute must for you to challenge anything that your local government is up to. You need to get copies of all ordinances that pertain to your particular circumstances from your local government. This can be a real pain because ordinances are typically not replaced but inststead are modified over and over again with changes that supercede specific provisions in original ordinances. In short you will need to create a paper/audit trail from the most recent modifications back to the original ordinance(s) to fully understand the provisions that affect you. Local government ordinances must establish or dedicate current right-of-ways, easements, set backs, etc. for any current/future purposes and define the use for which they are dedicated. Often this land was dedicated for specific uses (to the local government) by original land owners or developers of the property. A techincality you can use is often that the proposed use and dedicated use are inconsistent. Unfortuantely, it's going to be on you to sort the whole thing out. If the land has been dedicated, even if it is within the boundries of your property - there's really little or nothing you can really do to stop them and you may not be entitled to compensation. If you can legally prove that the local government doesn't have valid right-of-way/easement rights - you still won't have much ability to stop them. However they will be forced into Eminent Domain proceedings and at least you will be entitled to "Just Compensation". However, this is where things can really suck. As "Just Compensation" is undefined in the U.S. Constitution and most State Constitutions. To proceed with the project local government need only offer you $1. Appraised and/or market value does not have to be offered. It will then be your legal responsibility, at your expense, to have the property appraised and pursue the matter through the legal system until you obtain a more realistic value for your property. Get ready though - the ploy most often used by local government to keep their payments low is "this project is for the public good. Paying valid compensation will cost the good taxpayers of this community. This troublemaker has a civic duty to freely give their land to us to avoid burdening fellow taxpayers." I highly recommend seeking legal help if you really want to fight this. Unfortuantely even finding an attorney who will take the case on contingency is going chew up a large percentage of anything you receive. An attorney insisting on hourly billing can cost a small fortune even if you end up receiving nothing. What a system. Tom |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by cardogman on Feb 17th, 2006, 11:42am Jonny, Even tough you don't give a shit about me I'm going to put muy two cents in here because I'm having a problem with my town right now. That I will tell you about in a minute. Let me try to be clear. This shit pisses me off to no end. 1. On Long Island in Nassau County in the village I live in the sidewalks and curb grass are owned by the town but the homeowners are reesponsible for the car of the walkways and grass. This is a running battle because if the sidewalks crack the homeowner is repsonsible to repair them even though they don't own them. Our property line starts from the edge of the front lawn not the curb. 2. They want to take 7 feet from the curb to your house is that correct. or 7 feet of your front lawn? If it's from the curb it might not be that bad. If it's your front lawn only that's ridiculous. Your sidewalks are quite wide. 3. Whatever property they take from you must be removed from the survey of your property. This means that you should be re-assesed and the property taxes must go down. Then your mortgage payment will and should reflect that if you have a mortgage and if the taxes are paid with the mortgage payment and not seperately. In any case their will be a savings. 4. If they plan on replacing the sidealks their is no reason in the world they can't cut the width of the sidewalks down one foot. The walkways are very wide as it is. All the way don the street to make it look conforming. So does the 7 feet include the sidewalks or not or is it 7 feet of front lawn. 5. You can make your front lawn look bigger by removing the bushes in front of the house and reducing the bed size and plant smaller specimens. I can't tell how wide the bed is but you can get at least 3 feet or more maybe by borrowing from the bed and planting grass there and still have a row of bushes. Low and small. This will also make your house look bigger from the front. 6. The wall needs to be carfully removed by their contractors and they should have a mason re-install the stone and those Gargoyles to your specifications. 7. You need to document all of this in writing certified letter and if you have a friend that's a Lawyer or a Family member or an acquaintnce speak with them off the record and CC: at the bottom of the letter to the City the Lawyers name. This means that they know you have demands that need to be met. 8. The survey must be changed and they need to provide you a new survey and this survey must be given to the bank you have your mortgage with. 9. Now in our town their is a minimal amount of property a home can be built on. It use to be 60 X 100 now it's 80 X 100. There has to be a zoning clause in your City as well. They would need to change the code before one payloader comes in their to remove that property. If not they are in violation of the zoning code with your home and every property that is involved with this clusterfuck pardon the pun. You need to start a petition with every homeowner so everyone is on the same page. That's the deal. Advantages Less property tax They need to reconstruct the wall They need to provide you with a new survey They need to fix your front lawn because you know they will fuck it up. I suggest SOD You can make the lawn larger by taking more bed. They should pay for new specimens. If it affects a drive way they will need to install a new driveway for you as well. All of this should go in the cetrified return requested type written letter to the Zoning Board of the City and a Copy to the Mayor. Disadvantage Pain in the ass. I do know that this sort of shit takes a while to happen and you never know it may in the end not happen at all. This is what happened to me. I have some collectable cars. Hence the Car in the Cardogman. It's my hobby. About three years ago I had an awning attached to the side of my house and then I had a boat canvas guy come and he installed panels around the awning. The front panel rolls up so I can get the cars in. It's big enough and long enough to fit two cars back to back. They gave me a permit for a second drive way knowing what I was gonna do. Nobody ever complained and it was fine. About two summers ago these fuckers decided to rip up all the streets and replace em. All new Streets and curbs. The first day of the job I met with the Village Foeman and I asked him not to damage my property. He said don't worry. Two hours later my wife calls me I'm in some O.R. I get to the phone and she tells me that they came along with a back hoe and ripped up my whole lawn. So I wrote a letter and delivered it the same day. Told them if they weren't back here in 24 hours to fix my lawn sprinklers which I just had replaced and the lawn I would file a claim against the town. Within 12 hours some Nazi comes to my front door with three summons. Illegal lawn sprinklers on the curb grass, bushes overgrowing the side walk and illegal awning. I had to get a variance for the awning and after 3 gand of lawyers fees and forms and shit they voted against my application. I am now in appeals court for a tune of 8 grand. Those pieces of shit screwed with me because I told them hey best get over here and fix my prpoerty or they would get sued. Retribution. This what you get. This isn't America this is some sort of Dictatorship. I'm not done wth them. Follow through on the letter and don't let them breath. Burt |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by rickyshot on Feb 17th, 2006, 11:50am It is all too complicated for me but Jonny nice gargoylesl. You have my prayers. FIGHT. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BarbaraD on Feb 17th, 2006, 2:14pm Most states (except LA) run true to form on eminent domain. I've fought it more than once in Texas. In the end, they're gonna get your land, but what they're going to pay for it is a different matter. Most people just take what they offer (which is nothing most of the time - $1-$100). If you stand up to them, you can get what it's worth - aggravation and all. I always chose to stand up to them and get MY price and did. It takes time and a lot of BS, but in the end THEY get tired of dealing with you and give in to get it over with. Don't let them get by for nothing. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by chewy on Feb 17th, 2006, 2:51pm Quote:
Dont they at least have to offer fair market value? |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by JenniferD on Feb 17th, 2006, 3:04pm Sorry to hear of this BS Johnny. Wish there was somn I could do to help. All I have to offer is my moral support. I think, like the others do, that you definitely need that survey from when you bought the place. Hang tough, Jen |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by FramCire on Feb 17th, 2006, 3:48pm Jonny, I have a lawyer in my family who is not a current bar member but was a member of the bar in MA who might be able to answer any questions you have. Just send me a PM if you have any questions and I'll try and get them answered. Also, I still have friends all over MA, so if you decide to lash out at specific local politicians, please let me know. I'll spread the word. Otherwise, that is some real nice landscaping. I'd be ticked off too. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by burnt-toast on Feb 17th, 2006, 3:57pm on 02/17/06 at 14:51:05, chewy wrote:
Chewy, No, what "Just Compensation" is, is not defined by the U.S. and most State Constitutions. So $1 is a common offer made to land owners before property is taken by Eminent Domain. Unless you come across a particularly friendly local government agency the assessed or fair market values are not considerations when propertey is initially taken by Eminent Domain. Landowners must basically take their local governement to court , at their own expense to obtain a more reasonable settlement. But even then most landowners will not obtain fair market value because the courts view the local governement as "acting in good faith" and "in the interests of public good". To obtain full value for property or stop the taking of property - landowners must prove by a preponderance of evidence that the local government is not acting in good faith or not acting it the interests of the public. Tom |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BikerBob on Feb 17th, 2006, 4:34pm Seems like many of you are missing the point. The city engineer told him "your wall extends seven feet over the property line onto city property". If that's true, the city isn't taking his land, he's been using theirs and he's screwed. BB |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Sandy_C on Feb 17th, 2006, 4:39pm on 02/17/06 at 14:51:05, chewy wrote:
No, they do not have to offer you fair market value. They will make you an offer substantially (that's an understatement) less than fair market value. As Cardogman said, the homeowner is going to be the one who has to cough up the money and get an appraisal for fair market value of the land that the city wants to take. Even then, most cities won't give you what the appraiser says the property is worth. They are doing road widening down the main drag that my street runs off of. There are two houses on opposite sides of the street coming off the soon to be freeway road. Both property owners petitioned the city to buy the entire property from them. One house was purchased by the city and completely torn down. The owners didn't live there but had it rented out and it was trashed. They knew they would never get good money out of it so they jumped at the chance to have the city buy it. To that owner, they received "just compensation". The house on the other corner sits diagonally on the lot, so it's front yard faces the corner, not their street. It's a beautiful home and their yard is magnificent. The city would not even consider offering to buy their house because it would have been too expensive. So, the city used eminent domain and took half of their front yard The new road will be approximately 15' from their front door. Oh yes, they were compensated for the footage taken from their front yard, but this beautiful home, which at one time was worth over $200,000, is worth bupkis now, because nobody in their right mind would buy it with the road so close. The compensation they received cannot compensate for the complete devaluation of their property. Fair - absolutely not. Unfortunately, it's the law and the city can do whatever they damned well want. Jonny, I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's going to cost you money, but it might be worth the fight. You are going to have to be the one who gets all the info because the city sure isn't going to help you one whit. All of the above advice you've received is good advice. Go for the throat! Sic em! Sandy |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Margi on Feb 17th, 2006, 4:40pm yeah, BB, I caught that too. That's why I think they should at least refund him any property tax he's been paying on those seven feet. I'm sure it would be a tidy sum, Jonny, if you've been in that house for awhile. How wide is your property? 7 feet by, what, 50 feet? That's 350 square feet - figure out what your total square footage is and how much tax you've been paying. I bet you get a good chunk back. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 17th, 2006, 4:44pm Ok, I still havent found the paper work that shows my property lines...its been nine years since ive seen it. But I think im screwed by what I did find, its my title insurance,,,It says I have two parcels of land, one registered and one not.....heres how it reads. Parcel one-unregistered ================== A certain parcel of land with the building thereon situated in Norfolk county, Mass and bounded and described as follows. (Then it gives north, west, south and east dimensions) Subject to taking by by the County of Norfolk for the layout of Middle st (My street), recorded at the Norfolk registry of deeds in book....blah blah blah Im fucked!!! Edit to add:...Thank you to all that took time to help me out, it means more than you know. you guys ROCK!!!! |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by echo on Feb 17th, 2006, 4:47pm Sorry to hear that jonny. Seems the statement of "you can't fight city hall" rings true more often than not. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BikerBob on Feb 17th, 2006, 4:50pm on 02/17/06 at 16:40:12, Margi wrote:
That assumes that he's been paying property tax on those 7 feet. The Tax Assessor goes by the actual propery lines. BB |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Sandy_C on Feb 17th, 2006, 5:00pm OUCH - and I don't mean headaches! Jonny, that does not bode well for you. You definitely need that survey to exactly determine where each section lies. Are you saying that the parcel with your house on it is UN-registered? Man, you gotta find all of your paperwork when you bought the house. And, if the deed was not registered at the time of purchase, then you've got to go after the person who's job it was to record the deed. You can go to the Registrar of Deeds offices in your county and look up your parcel. It will go by probably book/lot/block numbers, but the folks there should be able to help you find it. I don't know how MA works, but in NC, we typically go to a closing attorney who's job it is to have everybody sign on the dotted line, and then he is responsible for getting the paperwork to the Registrar of Deeds and record the sale of the property to the new owner. I'm almost positive that when you bought your house, the transfer of the DEED had to have been made to you. The DEED is not the same as the Title Insurance, so don't panic yet. You need to find that Deed paperwork. Right now, I'm more concerned about the parcel of land that holds your home being properly recorded than I am about 7' of your front yard. From the second part, it does sound like they have the right to a certain portion of your property. Again, the survey and the Registrar of Deeds might help you there. If they do have the right to take it, it's gone. I'm sorry. Please let me know what you find out! Sandy |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 17th, 2006, 5:15pm on 02/17/06 at 17:00:57, Sandy_C wrote:
Thanks Sandy, you just reminded me that my partners wife works at the registry of deeds, its in a different county but I know she can pull up any deed in the state :-* |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Sandy_C on Feb 17th, 2006, 5:18pm Go for it, Jonny, I wish you luck. Sandy |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Margi on Feb 17th, 2006, 5:21pm Jonny, you let us know if you need all of Clusteropolis to come stand on your lawn. I'm thinkin' they probably would re-route the street in that case and put the damn stop light a few blocks further up. ;) |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 17th, 2006, 5:36pm LMAO...Margi...LOL...that would be one hell of a sight ;;D |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BlueMeanie on Feb 17th, 2006, 5:46pm WoW jonny... I sure hope they're wrong for your sake. You should be able to go to your local building & zone commission and make a copy of your plot. That will tell you where your easement is at the front of your house. If your wall is in that easement than there is nothing you can do. When I built my shed half way across my easement, they gave me a variance & told me it was o.k., but if they ever needed to do anything with that section of land that, not only will they make me take it down, but I would have to pay to do it. Good luck..... I love your Gargoyles ;;D |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by cardogman on Feb 17th, 2006, 6:02pm Jonny, If you have a mortgage on the property the bank holding the mortgage has a copy of the survey or surveys and you can get it from them immediately by just callig then or faxing them a request. Burt |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by kissmyglass on Feb 17th, 2006, 6:04pm Hey jonny, WoW just saw this & it sucks! killer wall btw. My mother works for a real estate lawyer and I also have a couple of real estate lawyers I do biz with. All in Connecticut though but I will see what I can find out. In the mean time Find the deed! Your lawyer at the closing should have recorded it immediatley after the closing. Not sure about the 2 plot thing...can ya tell me more? Really sucks, if they decide to take it theres not usually much you can do. if you want me to come chain myself to a gargoyl or help digging a moat, just yell.... Kev |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BlueMeanie on Feb 17th, 2006, 6:11pm on 02/17/06 at 18:04:25, kissmyglass wrote:
LMAO... make sure you wear an OUCH shirt for publicity. [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BikerBob on Feb 17th, 2006, 6:12pm Here ya go, Jonny... You may be able to get the deed and property lines on-line or just go to the address on this webpage. http://www.norfolkdeeds.org/ BB |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by _Lee_ on Feb 17th, 2006, 7:14pm You don't need a survey, find the abstract that came with the papers when you bought the place. It will show the cities easement, there is also a utility easement but normally runs behind your house. If your water meter is located behind the side walk you can bet the easement goes beyond that. The abstract drawing will usually show a distance from the center of the street, where I live it is 25' from the center of the street. That will vary from place to place. That is usually only used for water line breaks etc. so they can tear the fuck out of your yard and drive off. You however live on a busy street and they can expand up to the extent of the easement and not even tell you there going to do it. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by BarbaraD on Feb 17th, 2006, 8:38pm Jonny, another thing - check on "Homestead Rights" in MA. I don't know how long you've been in that house (in TX it's 25 years) but you may have some teeth there also. Most states (except LA) have pretty uniform real estate laws. It's worth a call (or going on the net and checking) to check that one out. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:10pm on 02/17/06 at 20:38:42, BarbaraD wrote:
I do have homestead Mom, but I think it only covers me from losing the house if im sued cause ive only been here for nine years, thank you, Mom :-* I would like the thank all of you again for your help, this fight has only begun......Ill Dick Cheney the bastards if I have to.....LOL ;;D Lee and BikerBob, the last two I thought would step up, Thanks guys!!......Looks like this family is what I always thought it was.....when it comes down to the wire all the BS goes out the window and the help is there. Dont think that I aint gonna still give ya shit ;;D |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by stevegeebe on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:14pm Good luck Jonny. Will they be putting a sidewalk behind the new curb and gutter bottom? If so, how deep will it extend into your yard? Sucks Bro. Good work on the wall. The other side of the street looks flush. Split the difference? Steve G |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 17th, 2006, 9:44pm Steve, They want to move that pole seven feet PAST my wall into my yard. http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4db37b3127cce9fbec0c7639a00000016108AZM2bNk5bM6 See the tree that it will be close to? (middle of the pic).....that will die cause the roots are already exposed in the grass......see the small grass line in the right lower hand corner of the pic, that will be my new front yard line. I go from a four car driveway to a two car, plus I get to keep the windows shut all summer as not to suck in all the shit the line of cars and trucks twenty feet from my house are spewing out while waiting at the red light. I figure my house will drop 75 grand in worth.....Its worth $405 grand now.....who the fuck is going to make that up?.......Scumbags!! I am so fucking postal......invaders beware!!! |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Chillrmn1 on Feb 18th, 2006, 1:24am Jonny, I wish you didn't have to be faced with this dilemma and hope it works out for the best. Wish I was able to offer some advice but this is not within my area of knowledge. Others have given you some good stuff on this. Best to ya bro, Bob |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by broomhilda on Feb 18th, 2006, 10:18pm Good luck Jonny, a fight worth fighting for!!! Just one thing came to my mind, not sure if will help but here there are bylaws in terms of cutting down or killing trees, especially heritage trees, just something that may be another angle to add... :-* |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by fubar on Feb 20th, 2006, 8:00pm heh heh heh... Jonny just said he was gonna "Dick Cheney". OUCH. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by catlind on Feb 21st, 2006, 8:44am so when do we all need to show up with our imitrex shots and oxygen tanks? Surely they aren't brave enough to plow down a line of O2 suckers ;) Just give the word, there'll be a meet and greet in MA. Cat |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Ghost on Feb 21st, 2006, 9:58am Hey Bro, I have an idea where they can put that pole! :o :o :o If ya need help going Chaney on them let me know! >:( |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Sandy_C on Feb 21st, 2006, 10:11am Keep us posted on what you find out, Jonny. Who knows, every little tidbit of information just might bring about the spark of an idea that will help you. You know us, we all have sparkley minds ;;D Sandy |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by tanner on Feb 21st, 2006, 12:37pm jonny, its nice to see you have mellowed so much in the last couple years [smiley=laugh.gif] the same shit is going on down here in sc. to some friends of mine and the state/county/town whatever depending on how the street is designated is required to pay you for the change in property valuation..... but guess who gets to decide how much that change will be..yep it looks from the photos that this will also affect the required setback. i only say this because the houses in the hood appear to be lined up and that usually means that they were built at around the same time and position to stay within required easements. as has been said before in this thread line up a posse and start fighting like hell or this could result in moving houses around as if they were trailers. if it comes to fisticuffs let me know i'm just hangin around being pissed at the world anyway.........tim |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by fubar on Feb 21st, 2006, 12:56pm Jonny, I really feel for you, this suck ass. At the end of the day, we have no rights... it's just amazing. Free country, my ass. I have a lot of reason to feel this way, and it sounds like you will too. I'll give you two examples of how much our free country is 'free'. 1) I was just audited by the State of California Board of Equalization. They decided they didn't like the revenue numbers from my bar, so guess what they did? They 'estimated' my revenue based on a bunch of formulas and guesswork, and PRESTO, my revenue was magically DOUBLE. Oops, now that means I have to pay sales taxes on revenue I NEVER made. Not only that, I have to pay penalties and interest on the tax payments I failed to make on revenue I never made. $45,000. I kid you not. They even based their imaginary revenue number on really small shot sizes, meaning that (according to their calculations) I was pouring many more drinks per bottle than I reported. This was done without even doing a pour test at my bar. At the end of the day, you cannot win this fight because the tax man is KING and I am a serf. This is just like living 1000 years ago. 2) When I worked at a high tech company that had a high-flying stock, they 'granted' me some stock worth almost $10 million dollars. Problem is, before I could sell it, it was worth zero. No big deal, right? Wrong. The IRS records the grant as ordinary income, but the loss is a capital loss and does not offset it. So, even though I never saw a penny, I owed a tax bill of $586,000 when it was over. I lost my house, my business and all of my assets (ALL of them). It was all legal and all the lawyers in the world could not save me. The bill is now paid, but I am really starting over with nothing. Free country my ass. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Kevin_M on Feb 21st, 2006, 2:05pm on 02/21/06 at 12:56:43, fubar wrote:
I don't know how this happened either Shawn but it appears true it has, except the 1000 years, more like since the American Revenue Act, or the Sugar Act of 1764. The new Act also provided that customs cases would be tried in admirality courts, by judges appointed by the King, rather than in common law courts, by juries selected from local citizens. The New York Assembly petitioned British Parliament arguing, "upon the principle even of natural justice, may claim a freedom from assessments unbounded and unassented to." They claimed, this same freedom from taxes imposed by anybody other than their own elected representatives. Without this right, they feared they would see their "liberty, property, and all the benefits of life, tumble into insecurity and ruin." William Livingston, a leading lawyer and politician of the time argued that a jury of peers was a sacred right, "matured by ages, founded as it were upon a rock." Americans should "oppose arbitrary rule in every shape by every lawful method in our power. Never let us sit suppine and indolent while our precious privileges are abridged." But instead, following this in May 1765 was the passage of the Stamp Act. Peter Jay described the Stamp Act as a "hard measure" which was "considered here by the most judicious" as likely to lay "the foundation for much trouble." Opposition to the Stamp Act caused it's repeal in May 1766. * Much of this had reasons behind the Revolutionary War. This thread reminds of conversations that would have arisen in that time. *John Jay biography |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by fubar on Feb 21st, 2006, 2:38pm Kevin, The 'tax' systems and 'justice' systems of today seem very much like 1000 years ago, in this regard. The problem isn't an American problem exclusively. I have travelled the world over, and I have yet to find a 'free' people that do not complain about government taxation and spending. What really kills me though is the arbitrary way that these laws are enforced. Essentially, once the government figures out that you might have the ability to pay it, they charge it, real or imagined. Jonny's situation is not unlike mine. His complaints and protests will fall on unsympathetic ears and powerless soldiers of the machine. I can't tell you how many times the effin' IRS people said to me "I know it's unfortunate and unfair, but I'm just doing my job." This, they said while taking my home out from under myself and my children. Again they said this as they took all of the funds from selling my business (and more). I lost every damn thing and for what? Not a real tax bill, that's for sure! Do I sound bitter? Hell yes! Who wouldn't be? However, as long as I remain here in America, I will be a good American and follow the (insane) rules and pay my (insane) taxes. I will support my president. I will tow the line. But, as soon as it is a real option (i.e. the in-laws have passed on and we can do it right) I will pack up everything (including the kids) and try my luck in a different country. My new wife is a citizen of Belize, and that place ain't all bad if you can enjoy a fairly rustic lifestyle (I can). I have said it many times... it just makes me sad to be an American sometimes. Again Jonny, I feel for you, but don't hold your breath waiting for relief. You'll suffocate. -Shawn |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Kevin_M on Feb 21st, 2006, 2:48pm on 02/21/06 at 14:38:01, fubar wrote:
I noticed the similar feelings brought by this situation. Quote:
Oh, yes Shawn. I'm not as familiar to that earlier time but just noticed going back much less than 1000 years and there were more recent comparisons. I meant, untrue we'd have to go back as far as 1000 years to find them. |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Jonny on Feb 21st, 2006, 5:35pm http://www.njweedman.com/squish2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by vietvet2tours on Feb 22nd, 2006, 1:16am on 02/21/06 at 17:35:25, Jonny wrote:
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by Cerberus on Feb 22nd, 2006, 9:30pm two schools of thinkin on this one... You are already studying one of those from all the replies. The other one is... If they wanna widen the road and cut your yard in half... I would advise making it really really really expen$ive for em to do it. If nothing else it will make them think a bit more about how bad they want that road widened. This is especially true if you have been living there long enough and they can't show a reasonable reason for the road work other than " the city wants too" Just a theory tho. 'Bus |
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Title: Re: Eminent domain my FK'ing ass!! Post by dennisoc on Apr 21st, 2006, 2:14am I'm glad jonny is in charge |
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