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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> What Is Your Opinion?
        
(Message started by: medic1852 on Feb 2nd, 2006, 7:19pm)
Title: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by medic1852 on Feb 2nd, 2006, 7:19pm
I was watching Fox News this morning and I cant find any thing on line about it. But there was a story about former Military personnel enrolled at Columbia University being called "baby killers" by both the Professors and student body. I think you all know my opinion of this I would just like to hear yours. Oh while we are at it let me have some feed back on this cartoon..http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinion/ssi/images/Toles/c_01292006_520.gif
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by Jonny on Feb 2nd, 2006, 7:35pm
Cartoon?.....looks like the Washington post is forwarding their agenda on the backs of our soldiers of misfortune!

Fucking Scumbags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by Sandy_C on Feb 2nd, 2006, 7:37pm
Let's take care of the "cartoon" first.  It sucks!  It's in extremely poor taste and offensive.  Nuff said?

As to the baby killer comments - I support our troops, no matter where they may be serving.  I don't necessarily support our government in  their decisions as to where and why they are sending our troops into harm's way.  It is perfectly OK to criticize our elected leaders in their decisions, and we should all do so.  But it is not OK to take our anger frustration and hatred out on those service men and women who have/are/will put their lives on the line for our safety and freedoms.  They are doing a job, just as all of the rest of us.  Should I call a secretary at Enron a thief because her boss decided to steal pensions from employees and retirees?  Of course not.  The blame lies with the bosses, not the employees.  They are doing their jobs as ordered by their employer.  And despite some uninformed, illiterate idiots, our military personnel are employees of our government - no more, no less.  

My question would be this - where is the Dean at Columbia who is allowing this to go on?  Where are the other teachers, professors, students who are keeping their mouths shut and sitting on their hands?  Where is the outrage?  There is something going drastically wrong with our society as a whole when we allow this S**t to happen.  I know, I know, free speech.  But Professors, for God's sake?  Their job is to teach their subject to the students in their classes, no matter who that student is or what that student does, WITHOUT interjecting their own personal political agendas.  Unfortunately, I've read that this is happening in universities across the country.  They are hired to teach our children to open their minds to everything and anything, yet they feel impelled to preach their own philosophy.  They should be fired.  I feel sorry for my children and grandchildren.  The future does not look good for them.

Sorry for the venting - but you did ask for my opinion, and I've never shirked my responsibility to give it when asked.

Sandy
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by kissmyglass on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:23pm
I think the pieces of shit that call our military peeps baby killers should go live somewhere else...North Korea has a nice ring to it.

Don't think the cartoon is worth commenting on.

Kev
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by maffumatt on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:26pm
its sad in more ways than one
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:27pm
As for the cartoon....even though I don't particularly care for Donald Rumsfeld....it's in extremely bad taste.

You can read more about the cartoon here
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/01/AR2006020102465.html

and here
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/24star.asp

Jimmy

edited to add...Thanks for the link..Matt.

These students and/or Professors who are harrassing the Soldiers (hero's) should be sentenced to Boot Camp and a stint in Afghanistan or Iraq. Maybe then they'd realize what the troops are going through.
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by maffumatt on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:30pm
http://www.nysun.com/article/26823
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by floridian on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:39pm

Quote:
Mr. Sanchez, as first reported by a Columbia student, Chris Kulawick, in a January 18 opinion piece in the Columbia Spectator, says three Columbia students accosted him at the Military Society table at the university's annual activities fair, calling him a "baby killer" and saying that, as a minority serviceman, Mr. Sanchez was "ignorant" and "stupid" for allowing himself to be used as "fodder" for an exploitative military.

"The accusations are a series of defamatory fabrications that serve to discredit the anti-war movement on campus," one of the students, Monica Dols, wrote in a January 30 opinion piece in the Spectator. Another student, Zach Zill, acknowledged in a Spectator op-ed piece that he "confronted" three military recruiters but said he did not make the comments attributed to him.

Mr. Sanchez did not respond to requests for comment yesterday.

http://www.nysun.com/article/26823?page_no=2


Sounds like a classic he-said, he-said, except that he isn't commenting on his version of what allegedly happened to him.  Didn't read anything about professors harrassing the student in question - although some are crying that professors are not being sufficiently nurturing and supportive of vets.  

As for the cartoon -  If your patriotism exceeds your political knowledge, you can be excused for thinking that it is critical of the injured vets. Rumsfeld is asked about the lack of armor for the troops, and his answer is that you fight with the forces you have, not the forces you wish you had.  He was asked about the intelligence failures, and he waxes poetic about the things we don't know, and the things we don't know that we don't know.  And last week:  A Pentagon-funded study that says the U.S. Army has been stretched to a "thin green line" by prolonged fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan should receive careful reading by President George W. Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. So Rumsfeld disputes the idea that our military is stretched thin - he recasts it as a "battle hardened" military.  And that makes for a political cartoon.  

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-rum26.html

So, Mr. Rumsfeld, if there isn't a problem, why are the recruiting standards being lowered?  

According to this Salon article, 17 percent (or 21,880 new soldiers in 2005) were admitted under waivers - they didn't meet the standards, but were allowed in anyway.  Ordinarily, a felony means you are not qualified.  But these are not ordinary times.  Ordinarily, there are physical fitness standards (the conservatives were very insistent on those standards when they thought they could keep most women out of the military by proclaiming standards).    But those standards are no longer practical.  

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/02/02/waivers/index_np.html

Bad taste? Perhaps, depending on how you interpret it.  But the speech in that cartoon is not nearly as disgusting as the lies that got us into a bumfuck war with 2245 dead Americans, thousands more mentally or physically disabled.  For what?  So we can watch "Return of the Burka" as the progressive/secular Iraqis are driven out and the fundamentalist take over?  So that Iraqis can have a new constitution (that establishes the Koran as the highest law) and free elections (where they freely elected fundamentalists that will line them up with the Mullahs of Iran)?  Brilliant Move.  Let's all applaud the Maximum Leader's Great Plan for Iraq, and attack the patriotism of any who dares to disagree.    
Title: Unconscionable?
Post by Richr8 on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:41pm
It is absolutely shocking for me to see people take advantage of their positons of power to impose their views on fragile young minds. It's Unfortunate that these young men are in place to support an unpopuar decision, only doing what is required of them as their duty to this nation.
Take it up with the politicians I say!  
Our Warfighter's only deserve, our respect, our prayers, and our thanks.  

Truly sad

Rich
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by Jonny on Feb 2nd, 2006, 8:49pm

on 02/02/06 at 20:39:07, floridian wrote:
As for the cartoon -  If your patriotism exceeds your political knowledge, you can be excused for thinking that it is critical of the injured vets. Rumsfeld is asked about the lack of armor for the troops, and his answer is that you fight with the forces you have, not the forces you wish you had.  


I dont see that in the cartoon.
Title: You're right
Post by Richr8 on Feb 2nd, 2006, 9:08pm
, but being in cycle and after 8 weeks of no little or no sleep and not having seen the article. I don't feel to bad about it.  And I still do not care for the cartoon.
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by minnie on Feb 2nd, 2006, 9:10pm

on 02/02/06 at 20:23:17, kissmyglass wrote:
I think the pieces of shit that call our military peeps baby killers should go live somewhere else...North Korea has a nice ring to it.
Don't think the cartoon is worth commenting on.
Kev

----------------------------------------------------------------------
my thoughts exactly Kevin.The 16th of this month is the 1st anniversary of my nephew (in-law) death in Iraq.Very touchy month for my family especially my niece as I've mentioned here before she turns 21 the 6th  of febuary.The 14 would have been their 3 wedding anniversary and he was killed the 16th  :'( .
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d182/minnie7053/fcbace6a.jpg  off to Iraq second tour
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d182/minnie7053/1e67a7a9.jpg This Bullet missed,not by much though
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d182/minnie7053/56218f53.jpg off to the ball
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d182/minnie7053/49473a7e.jpg
does this look like a child killer to you ?
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by thebbz on Feb 2nd, 2006, 9:15pm
;)FUKENAY SANDY [smiley=bow.gif] Well said. [smiley=argue.gif]
jb
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 3rd, 2006, 6:20am
Far be it from me to say, "I told you so!" when this damn war started, but we're seeing signs of Viet Nam..... and it's just starting. Our troups should be given hero's welcomes when they return (if they do), but our politicians should be horse-whipped for putting them in harm's way to begin with.

When our troups do return with injuries, OUR government doesn't even have ample facilities to take care of them (ie., they're asking for DONATIONS to build a facility in San Antonio for these brave men and women because it's NOT in the federal budget). But we're spending billions more to take care of Iraquains.

Those of you old enough to remember Viet Nam can remember the college campuses and the outcry over that war. Our troups were downed and that wasn't right then and it's not right now. These kids are doing what they're told (working for the "man"). If we're going to vent our anger over a war then we need to go to the RIGHT source - these guys in DC.

And that's my opinion!

Hugs BD
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by E-Double on Feb 3rd, 2006, 8:09am
Well Put Barb!!!!!!!!

My opinion on the cartoon is as follows...

Simply put:
  • Against Rumsfeld Not Troops.

  • Drastic and Graphic yet point taken.

  • Support the troops not the people that  keep them in harms way with LITTLE support
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by maffumatt on Feb 3rd, 2006, 8:12am
my father was spit on when he stepped off the plane, he still resents that far more than most people know. I does have an  effect on our soldiers. I don't care what your opinion is about the war, respect those that are fighting it.
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by vig on Feb 3rd, 2006, 8:14am
I'm with EE...

this is clearly a WELL-DESERVED slam against Rumsfeld, who should have been fired when the Abu Ghirab stuff came out.  

Our soldiers are heroes and are being exploited by numbskulls.
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by JJA on Feb 3rd, 2006, 8:42am
I don't see how the cartoon is critical of injured soldiers.

The patient doesn't represent a wounded soldier; he is a metaphor for the condition of entire army. That's why the bed chart says "US Army".

Sorry for the disrespect your father received, Matt.

Jesse
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by nani on Feb 3rd, 2006, 8:49am
Yeah...definitely a slam on Rumsfeld, not soldiers.

The VietNam war split our country apart, and the ones who paid the highest price, here and over there, were the soldiers. I'd sure hate to see that happen again.  :'(  My husband was spit on and called a baby killer, too. And to think...he was just a kid trying to do the right thing. What's important is that all of us keep our perspective. Whether you're for the war or against it...  
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by Bob P on Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:15am
I think all the whiney, tree hugging, panty wastes should move to Maine and take up communal farming.

I know this country hasn't been attacked since 9/11.  Thanks Dubya!
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by imnotbub on Feb 3rd, 2006, 10:16am
Sandy, you said it perfectly. The men and women in action are not there with an agenda other than one to protect our rights and freedoms. Any gripes should be directed at the politicians. We should be thanking the troops for their service and sacrifices, and anyone who doesn't should be ashamed of themselves.
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by Jonny on Feb 3rd, 2006, 4:39pm

on 02/03/06 at 06:20:35, BarbaraD wrote:
When our troups do return with injuries, OUR government doesn't even have ample facilities to take care of them (ie., they're asking for DONATIONS to build a facility in San Antonio for these brave men and women because it's NOT in the federal budget).


http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/fallenheroes/index.php

My "Thank You" along with my name will be engraved in a paver, the paver will be placed in the walkway that leads to this facility.

Theres the link if you care to join me.
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 3rd, 2006, 5:58pm
Thanks Jonny, I don't know how to put those blue links up ...

These guys need the facility... donate and let's get it built. The damn government ain't gonna do it.....

Hugs BD
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by medic1852 on Feb 3rd, 2006, 7:53pm

on 02/02/06 at 20:39:07, floridian wrote:
Sounds like a classic he-said, he-said, except that he isn't commenting on his version of what allegedly happened to him.  Didn't read anything about professors harrassing the student in question - although some are crying that professors are not being sufficiently nurturing and supportive of vets.  

As for the cartoon -  If your patriotism exceeds your political knowledge, you can be excused for thinking that it is critical of the injured vets. Rumsfeld is asked about the lack of armor for the troops, and his answer is that you fight with the forces you have, not the forces you wish you had.  He was asked about the intelligence failures, and he waxes poetic about the things we don't know, and the things we don't know that we don't know.  And last week:  A Pentagon-funded study that says the U.S. Army has been stretched to a "thin green line" by prolonged fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan should receive careful reading by President George W. Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. So Rumsfeld disputes the idea that our military is stretched thin - he recasts it as a "battle hardened" military.  And that makes for a political cartoon.  

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-rum26.html

So, Mr. Rumsfeld, if there isn't a problem, why are the recruiting standards being lowered?  

According to this Salon article, 17 percent (or 21,880 new soldiers in 2005) were admitted under waivers - they didn't meet the standards, but were allowed in anyway.  Ordinarily, a felony means you are not qualified.  But these are not ordinary times.  Ordinarily, there are physical fitness standards (the conservatives were very insistent on those standards when they thought they could keep most women out of the military by proclaiming standards).    But those standards are no longer practical.  


I sat and pondered on this quote today, I did not want to make a snap statement and get flamed. After all I did ask your opinions. But after some stewing on it and my less than ample education will probably say some things that are a little distasteful and ill-colored, so please bare with me.  ;;D

I looked at this cartoon and looked and then I looked some more, then I asked my wife who is a Democrat and agreed with me (Republican) that there was no comment or connection with "Body Armor" in the cartoon so this throws that comment out.

As for the Columbia college I believe the "Vets". I have known some professors in my time and know that most are whiny crying liberals. A matter of fact it is very hard to find a professor who isn't liberal.

As for the rest of you and your thinking that the comic was directed at Mr. Rumsfeld. I tend to think that is a good stand point and I think that is how the cartoon was intended.

Matt, my pops like many others was spit on when they arrived home. Tell your dad thanks for me.

There I tried to be nice and less colorful than I would have liked but I hope you get my point.

Rodger
Title: Re: What Is Your Opinion?
Post by Cerberus on Feb 3rd, 2006, 9:18pm
My opinion?

 Don't Shit where you Eat.

Wizards first rule: People are Stupid.

'Bus


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