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(Message started by: CHTom on Jan 4th, 2006, 12:33am)
Title: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by CHTom on Jan 4th, 2006, 12:33am
Just heard the great news that the 12 coal miners who were trapped in the collapsed mine in W. Virginia have been rescued and all are alive!  Suddenly my Ch pain is not so bad :)!
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Mr. Happy on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:09am
Poor #13. Reckon it just wasn't his day. Great the other 12 black lungers made it.

Makes 2nd hand smoke a bit trivial, eh?
RJ
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:22am
That is just wonderful news---all the media took yesterday to tell the world that it was almost impossible for the miners to be alive. Prayer really does work, cause this is a miracle !
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Mr. Happy on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:35am
Prayers's are OK and all, but I'd rather the crews working aorund the clock to save these men got double over time as well as hazard pay.

Life is a good thing, if you can afford it.
RJ
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Drk^Angel on Jan 4th, 2006, 2:58am
Only one survived, 12 found dead according to recent reports.

PFDAN.................................... Drk^Angel

P.S.  The one survivor is in the hospital in critical condition.  Mine officials are blaming miscommunication for the confusion.  Ya would've thought that someone could've been a little more careful with their communication considering the circumstances.

DA
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by zwibbs/Scott on Jan 4th, 2006, 6:54am
You are so right!! How in the Hell can someone miscommunicate FACT. It makes you wonder if the Television media had anything to do with this in their race to be the first with " breaking news."
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by taraann on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:23am
The CEO of the mining company supposedly received the miscommunication that 12 survived and according to some of the family he then told them of the survivors.  Then approx 3 HOURS went by before he came back to that baptist church and corrected his error.  Why did it take so long?!?! Oh those poor, poor families.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by chewy on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:30am

Quote:
Prayer really does work, cause this is a miracle !


Guess not.


Quote:
Only one survived, 12 found dead
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Melissa on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:48am
chewy, you are really walking a fine line here...  >:(
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by chewy on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:53am
No amount of prayers were going to save those guys.

Corporate responsibilty, adherance to OSHA regs, safety inspections.

Thats what could have saved them.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by nani on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:55am

on 01/04/06 at 08:53:37, chewy wrote:
Corporate responsibilty


Isn't that an oxymoron?  :-/

I'm sending prayers for the families.  :'(
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by chewy on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:56am

Quote:
Isn't that an oxymoron?


Not always. In this case...Yes.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Rock_Lobster on Jan 4th, 2006, 9:04am
Man.... went to bed smiling after the first announcement.
What worse news to wake up to...
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Guiseppi on Jan 4th, 2006, 9:11am
He always answers prayers Melissa, just not always with a yes. Keep the families in your prayers, that's who needs it now.

Guiseppi
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Melissa on Jan 4th, 2006, 9:52am

on 01/04/06 at 09:11:29, Guiseppi wrote:
He always answers prayers Melissa, just not always with a yes. Keep the families in your prayers, that's who needs it now.

Guiseppi

Guiseppi, my comment had nothing to do with what I believe, but thank you for your comments. :)
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 4th, 2006, 10:07am

on 01/04/06 at 08:53:37, chewy wrote:
Corporate responsibilty



on 01/04/06 at 08:55:28, nani wrote:
Isn't that an oxymoron?  :-/



Quote:
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (Jan. 3) - A coal mine where 13 miners were trapped after an explosion Monday was cited 208 times for alleged safety violations in 2005, up from just 68 citations the year before.

Federal regulators' allegations against the Sago Mine included failure to dilute coal dust, which can lead to explosions, and failure to properly operate and maintain machinery, according to the U.S. Labor Department.  

Ninety-six of the citations were considered "significant and substantial" by inspectors.  

"We think that we were operating a safe mine. We have no real clue about what triggered this explosion or whatever happened today," said ICG Senior Vice President Gene Kitts




on 01/04/06 at 08:56:49, chewy wrote:
Not always. In this case...Yes.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by CHTom on Jan 4th, 2006, 10:11am
I just learned, from reading this post, about the 12 deaths...I feel like shit now.  How could they screw up so badly in their announcments?  I can't imagine how those 12 families must have felt after first hearing that their loved ones were alive, only to find out later.........
:'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Ghost on Jan 4th, 2006, 10:22am
All I know is it was not done to hurt anyone nor was it done for and sinister reason. I will almost guarantee the person/persons that miss spoke feel awful for the mistake. What everyone there needs now is a nations support and prayers. And the lone surviver(sp) needs alot of prayers for his recovery. God Bless the Lost for they have returned to the Father. Like all who have died around the world we should pray for thier families and that they have gone to a better place, May the souls of the lost find peace and the families know it is so.

Sorry for the sermon but I felt the need to say it.

Mike
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by rickyshot on Jan 4th, 2006, 11:32am
There are usually one of 3 answers to prayer. Yes, no, or wait. Prayer is simply talking or communicating with God not your wish list for the genie in the bottle. Yes those men have went home.

Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants do do what it takes to get there.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by nani on Jan 4th, 2006, 11:43am

on 01/04/06 at 11:32:34, rickyshot wrote:
Prayer is simply talking or communicating with God not your wish list for the genie in the bottle.
Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven but no one wants do do what it takes to get there.


Good point, Ricky. I don't want to change the nature of this thread, but I'll say this:
Being raised a Catholic, I used to think that if I just prayed hard enough and tried to be a good person, nothing bad would ever happen to me or mine.
My epiphany came when I finally realized that faith isn't about nothing bad ever happening, but real faith is knowing that no matter what happens, I'll be OK.

I also don't believe in heaven (or hell) per se...
I just try to live right, following the Golden Rule. It's all about the compassion and love.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by floridian on Jan 4th, 2006, 11:47am
Pray for the one who is hanging on to life by a thread if you are so inclined, but don't pretend that a pro-corporate government and union busting isn't killing people.  

The perfect crime, Ladies and Gentlemen, isn’t getting away with something after you’re caught ... The perfect crime is the one nobody knows was committed. ... like the current goverment's refusal to cut down on mercury emissions because their coal mining contributors won't allow it.  A few thousand deaths spread over millions of people, a few hundred thousand children with impaired development - no one sees a smoking gun, no one gets upset and gets off their duff to do anything.

The manslaughter of the WV miners is an outrage, but is a drop in the bucket compared to other preventable problems from coal ... I guess its like they say, 10 deaths are a tragedy but 10,000 deaths are a statistic.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Sean_C on Jan 4th, 2006, 12:19pm

on 01/04/06 at 11:47:23, floridian wrote:
The perfect crime, Ladies and Gentlemen, isn’t getting away with something after you’re caught ... The perfect crime is the one nobody knows was committed.


Exactly, you can't break the law if you are the one who makes them.

Great post Flo

Sean............................................
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Rock_Lobster on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:02pm
Bet you're gay.

on 01/04/06 at 08:30:49, chewy wrote:
No, I'm not.

http://www.geocities.com/amish_elite/donsuckz.jpg
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Rock_Lobster on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:03pm

on 01/04/06 at 12:19:46, Sean_C wrote:
Exactly, you can't break the law if you are the one who makes them.

Great post Flo

Sean............................................


Agreed.  Well said Flo.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Gator on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:06pm
All the religious and political crap aside...

Assuming that the 13th man lives, and I really hope he does, he will likely suffer from serious survivors guilt.  He worked with the dead men every day and watched them die thinking he was going to die with them.  He will be at a very high risk for committing suicide.  My heart goes out to him and his family as much for what they are about to go through as for what has already happened.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Ghost on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:34pm
Great post gator :'(
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by rickyshot on Jan 4th, 2006, 1:43pm
Good posts Gator and Floridian.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by BobG on Jan 4th, 2006, 2:21pm
Within twenty minutes after the announcement of 12 survivors the CEO knew that it was wrong. TOTALLY WRONG. It was 12 DEAD. But he chose to allow the families and friends celebrate the good news that the miners were alive. FOR ALMOST 3 HOURS he remained silent.

Then he tells the people that their loved ones are really dead. "Oops, sorry, slight miscommunication."

There is an old saying about not killing the messenger.
I think in this case killing the messenger would be justifiable in any court.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Jonny on Jan 4th, 2006, 3:31pm

on 01/04/06 at 11:47:23, floridian wrote:
the current goverment's refusal


Yep, George Bush killed those folks.

Why not?...He killed 236,000 with his kickass Tsunami and all the blacks with that rock-n-roll hurricane called Katrina.

Who and how many will he kill next? ::)
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Charlie on Jan 4th, 2006, 3:40pm
I pretty much agree with the whole damn thread.

Newspapers (although some morning ones pulled a Dewey Defeats Truman) are a nice filter for things like this.

I'm not very serious about religion but you never know. Ghost and Floridian are right on the money from where I sit and sit and sit.  http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/writer.gif

Charlie
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by floridian on Jan 4th, 2006, 5:18pm

on 01/04/06 at 15:31:36, Jonny wrote:
Yep, George Bush killed those folks.

Why not?...He killed 236,000 with his kickass Tsunami and all the blacks with that rock-n-roll hurricane called Katrina.

Who and how many will he kill next? ::)


Good question.  What I said was "like the current goverment's refusal to cut down on mercury emissions because their coal mining contributors won't allow it."  It is clear that political flunkies in the EPA have over-ruled their own scientists in setting current mercury policy.

I said that because:


Quote:
  Washington, D.C., June 14, 2005 – Four leading medical, nursing and public health groups, representing more than 300,000 public health professionals, today filed a challenge to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) power plant mercury rule.  The plaintiffs include Physicians for Social Responsibility, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Nurses Association and the American Public Health Association, all based in Washington.

The medical and health groups are filing a motion for intervention into the mercury litigation initiated by environmental organizations and 13 state attorneys general.  The groups are filing this historic new lawsuit in response to the mercury rule’s serious threat to public health. Physicians, nurses, and public health professionals will ask the federal courts to overturn the weak mercury rule to protect patient and community health and to reduce the risk of toxic ‘hotspots’.


Maybe the American Pediatrics association, the American Nurses Association and the EPA's own scientists all have their heads up their butts.  Maybe hundreds of thousands of health professionals that think that mercury is a major threat to the health of US citizens are wrong.  Maybe no one will suffer from policies that allow more mercury into our air, water and food - policies that are based on coal company money, not the input of the science experts. And maybe no one will die, or atleast the deaths will be so spread out that they are invisible.

You are so wise, king jonnie, and we are the foolish ones.  From now on, I am 110% behind our Presidnets Clear Skies Initiative!!  How could a policy with such a good name be bad??  
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Jonny on Jan 4th, 2006, 5:28pm

on 01/04/06 at 17:18:50, floridian wrote:
You are so wise, king


You are kind,but, I bet you say that to all the Kings. ;)
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by stevegeebe on Jan 4th, 2006, 6:52pm
What it must have been for the families.

I wonder if the "News Stars" are now more concerned about their image or the real life tragedy of the miners and those left behind.

Reality TV...I must need more cause they keep serving it up...live.  

How's this..."and now live to the local dew-drop-in where Anderson Cooper has just downed his third martini", "Anderson, who are you angry with?"..."Who do you blame for this?", "Do you feel as foolish as you seem?"

May the pain pass quickly.

Steve G
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by chewy on Jan 4th, 2006, 7:40pm
Mis-communications happen. Especially in desperate situations. I can understand that.

BUT

Allowing men to work a mine that is documented to be unsafe is criminal. Waiting three hours to correct the mis-communication is immoral.


Quote:
I will almost guarantee the person/persons that miss spoke feel awful for the mistake.


I hope so. I also hope that those responsible for the 3 hour delay are haunted for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Phil L on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:06pm
Until we start to fess up and hold ourselves responsible and accountable, then it will only get worse. We live in a society where it is ALWAYS somebody elses fault and that's just plain unvarnished BS. From the highest political office in the land to the prevailing far left agenda to grammer school when you screw up it's  ALWAYS SOMEBODY ELSES FAULT. If the mine was unsafe, then the owners should be held personally responsible and put in prison. Instead the corporation will be fined and once again, personal responsibility is evaded.

This maybe the wrong place for these comments and if so I appologize.

Phil
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Jonny on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:15pm
Can we all agree that George Bush did not kill these guys?

Can we?.....Anyone?
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Sean_C on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:33pm

on 01/04/06 at 20:15:19, Jonny wrote:
Can we all agree that George Bush did not kill these guys?

Can we?.....Anyone?


No one person can be blamed for what happened dude.

However, only change can prevent it from happening again. Agreed??
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Jonny on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:38pm

on 01/04/06 at 20:33:19, Sean_C wrote:
However, only change can prevent it from happening again. Agreed??


Agreed, I'll get on the horn right now and let ole George know  ;)
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Sean_C on Jan 4th, 2006, 8:42pm

on 01/04/06 at 20:38:46, Jonny wrote:
Agreed, I'll get on the horn right now and let ole George know  ;)


I think he's at the ranch. Need the number? ;;D
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Jonny on Jan 4th, 2006, 9:07pm

on 01/04/06 at 20:33:19, Sean_C wrote:
No one person can be blamed for what happened dude.


Controdiction on of what you say? ;;D
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Drk^Angel on Jan 5th, 2006, 12:05pm
Perhaps next time there's a mine accident like this, they won't dick around with remote controlled robots, scambling together mine rescue "experts" from all over the state for half a day, and crappy, outdated vertilation proceedures that caused them to take a total of 41 hours to walk 13,000 feet to get to the miners.  Yeah... I know... It's good to be careful to prevent unneccesary injury or death, but in this day and age, there should be a way to walk a couple of miles underground safely without taking two days to do it.  

But then again, it'd prolly cost the mine owners too much money.  After all... 12 souls is a small price to pay when you consider it'd prolly take hundreds, maybe even thousands, of dollars to actually be prepared for a mine accident.  After all... There's only been 613 U.S. coal mine disasters (resulting in 5 or more deaths) in recorded history, totalling 13,793.  What's another disaster and 12 more souls.

All I know... I can understand that mine accidents and fatatlities were expected and accepted in the by-gones... There just wasn't the technology and resources to do things any better.  But these days we should definitely have the technology and the resources to do something more... It's just too bad these poor mining companies just can't afford it.  Yeah right...

PFDAN....................................... Drk^Angel
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by chewy on Jan 5th, 2006, 1:56pm

Quote:
but in this day and age, there should be a way to walk a couple of miles underground safely without taking two days to do it.  


I think it takes less time for the shuttle to go from the earth to the moon.

At least FEMA wasn't involved. (or were they?)
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by BarbaraD on Jan 5th, 2006, 4:48pm
hadn't thought of that -- maybe FEMA was involved. sounds like something from them... BD
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Charlie on Jan 5th, 2006, 6:14pm
That's it!

Send FEMA next time. No hasty reports that way. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/neat confused.gif

What a sad story. I just hope there isn't some TV movie about it.

Charlie
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by fubar on Jan 5th, 2006, 6:22pm

on 01/05/06 at 13:56:05, chewy wrote:
I think it takes less time for the shuttle to go from the earth to the moon.


The Space Shuttle has never been beyond Earth orbit, but I get the point.

I was so happy when I heard the miners were alive.  It brought a tear to my eye.  I can't imagine the agony that the families and friends went through after being jerked around like that.  Criminal.
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Lizzie2 on Jan 5th, 2006, 6:44pm
Very heartbreaking...   :'(

My piano teacher at Penn State is from West Virginia and grew up in a mining family in a mining town.  When the movie "October Sky" came out, he told me that was  basically his childhood and his hometown life in that film.

A lot of central PA is the same way.  What's sad is the corporate dollars and the lack of responsibility for correcting very hazardous conditions....the people who go to work in the mine every day are the bluest of blue collar lives and basically live a life we can't picture without living through it ourselves.  It really is a totally different world.

Drk...I know you've probably been to that town along the turnpike that has the underground fire that's been burning for years?  All the trees are black, and you can see the smoke...That fire runs through the mines underground and nobody could put it out...so it is slowly swallowing the town.  The mayor is like 90 or something like that, and he said he refuses to move...despite the warnings and danger.  Just a different life out there...

Flo...on the mercury...someone said recently that this woman was eating fish 3 days a week (just one meal a day) - which is hardly unusual, and her mercury level was something like 150, and it's supposed to be between 10 and 20 right?

They say now that pregnant women should not eat seafood due to the mercury, and that a lot of people with chronic illnesses that seem to have no real cure should also look at mercury poisoning.  I ate tuna every day for years...first thought that came to my mind was maybe that's my problem!  But then my grandfather sometimes eats fish 3 times a day and he's 83...  :)

The mercury poisoning is definitely NOT good for pregnant women though...and I wouldn't have even known that if they hadn't discussed it at work...  I wonder how many OB/Gyn's are telling their patients to abstain from seafood or if that's yet another warning lost in the shuffle.  I was pretty surprised by it, myself!  Scary stuff out there.........

Carrie
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by floridian on Jan 5th, 2006, 9:51pm

on 01/04/06 at 20:15:19, Jonny wrote:
Can we all agree that George Bush did not kill these guys?

Can we?.....Anyone?


OK. And it ain't my fault that Little Joey lost his arms and legs. Sure, I told him to jump in that pool on the other side of the fence at Marine Land.  But it was the sharks that mauled him, not me. ;)


Quote:
the Bush administration cut 170 positions from MSHA (Mine Safety and Health Administration) and has not proposed a single new mine-safety standard or rule during its tenure.

Additionally, many regulations aimed specifically at mine safety have been eroded or done away with under the Bush administration, including a 2000 rule titled "Escapeways and Refuges." The rule required all mines to have at least two separate exit paths but was altered shortly after Bush took office by then MSHA head David Lauriski.


Bush himself is nothing more than a bimbo spokesmodel for the Cheney gang - We have a president who has taken more vacation in 5 years than any other president has taken in history. We have what historians of all parties agree is the most active vice president in history.  Can you see their  strategery?? Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice
their love with women all across this country. See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda. You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." (- G. Bush - to a divorced mother of three.)
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Lizzie2 on Jan 5th, 2006, 10:02pm
Floridian,

Where do the quote marks start in that paragraph?  Did he actually say "OB/Gyn" and "love for women" in the same sentence?

Just doesn't sound right...!
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by floridian on Jan 5th, 2006, 10:13pm
Yes, the man is a perv. Not sure if he went off his meds, or found a new med that day.  The  speech is available from the whitehouse website:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/09/20040906-4.html
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Lizzie2 on Jan 5th, 2006, 10:15pm
That's disturbing....
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Sean_C on Jan 5th, 2006, 10:19pm

on 01/05/06 at 18:44:50, Lizzie2 wrote:
that town along the turnpike that has the underground fire that's been burning for years?  All the trees are black, and you can see the smoke...That fire runs through the mines underground and nobody could put it out...so it is slowly swallowing the town.


http://www.offroaders.com/album/centralia/centralia.htm

http://www.offroaders.com/album/centralia/images/ali/100_0028.jpg
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by Lizzie2 on Jan 5th, 2006, 10:24pm
Thanks Sean,

I couldn't remember the name of the town.  But I've been fascinated by Centralia for years....very very bizarre place to drive through.  Surreal.

Carrie
Title: Re: West Virginia Coal Miners
Post by cootie on Jan 7th, 2006, 12:49am
My close freind has family that works in that coal mine but was off for the holiday......they make 28.00 an hour at such a risky job......my friend is building a house 2 moutnains down from the mine. Really was a sad event. Real nice topper for the holiday from hell Pam

One guy that died was goin to retire in March !!  :'(

I've seen the smoke comeing out of the mines where the fires were......they have pipes in the ground or sumthin to let it out......really was eerie !


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