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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> Time Travel
        
(Message started by: Jasmyn on Dec 31st, 2005, 1:32am)
Title: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Dec 31st, 2005, 1:32am
It always amazes me that we are actually doing time travelling already.

Rori is having a baby... Friday in the US but Saturday on this side of the time line.

We travel by planes into the past, the present or the future.  If I go East I'll step into a new morning of the next day in someone else's time, the future.
If I travel local, I'll stay in the present.
When I travel West, I land into my own past, the previous day but someone else's present.

Now, I just wonder, if you were born on Friday the 30th Dec in the US and you move to Australia, do you celebrate your birthday every year on the 30th or do you remember that you were actually born on the 31st on that day if you were in that time line?

And where the hell does time go between the continents of the Pacific Ocean? [smiley=huh.gif]

I'm a bit time warped at this stage. ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by fubar on Dec 31st, 2005, 2:10am
There is no such thing as time.  Everything happened in a singularity, and time is our pathetic way of dealing with the amount of information that we consumed in that instant.  We are living in Tivo-land.  Only a few of us have access to the controls.
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Dec 31st, 2005, 2:30am

on 12/31/05 at 02:10:27, fubar wrote:
There is no such thing as time.  Everything happened in a singularity, and time is our pathetic way of dealing with the amount of information that we consumed in that instant.  We are living in Tivo-land.  Only a few of us have access to the controls.


Then why is it night where you are and day where I am?
Who controls that?  You are actually still in my last night. ;)

Time flies when you're having no sleep ;;D
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by BikerBob on Dec 31st, 2005, 2:47am

on 12/31/05 at 02:10:27, fubar wrote:
There is no such thing as time. Only a few of us have access to the controls.


Yep.

Set the controls for the heart of the sun

Little by little the night turns around
Counting the leaves which tremble at dawn
Lotuses lean on each other in yearning
Under the eaves the swallow is resting
Set the controls for the heart of the sun

Over the mountain watching the watcher
Breaking the darkness
Waking the grapevine
One inch of love is one inch of shadow
Love is the shadow that ripens the wine
Set the controls for the heart of the sun

Witness the man who waves at the wall
Making the shape of his question to Heaven
Whether the sun will fall in the evening
Will he remember the lesson of giving
Set the controls for the heart of the sun

Roger Waters, 1967, Pink Floyd

BB
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 31st, 2005, 3:22am

on 12/31/05 at 02:30:24, Jasmyn wrote:
Then why is it night where you are and day where I am?
Who controls that?  


Breathe deep the gathering gloom,
Watch lights fade from every room.
Bedsitter people look back and lament
Another day's useless energy is spent.

Impassioned lovers wrestle as one;
Lonely man cries for love and has none;
New mother picks up and suckles her son;
Senior citizens wish they were young.

Cold-hearted orb that rules the night
Removes the colours from our sight,
Red is grey and yellow white
But we decide which is right
And which is an illusion.


Graeme Edge, Moody Blues 1967

Bobw
(props to Pat)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by JenniferD on Dec 31st, 2005, 8:54am
In my world its only:

What's for breakfast? time
What can we have for lunch? time
When's dinner? time
I'm going to bed time.

my hubby and kids 2005 everyday
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Dec 31st, 2005, 9:17am
I'm sooooooo confused now! ;)

Carol
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Dec 31st, 2005, 9:41am
I'm not a singularity fan, but time seems to help make everything from all happening at once.  
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by pattik on Dec 31st, 2005, 9:41am
The sun and moon every day,
Day and night, mark my play.
See the future in the past,
Try to change or make it last.
Go for broke, don't regret,
Get your hands dirty, get your feet wet,
Take your place, use me well,
I'm in your hands so make me tell.
A broken dream seems unkind
But I can help for I am time.

Graeme Edge, Moody Blues, 1986


Pat (props to Bob)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Melissa on Dec 31st, 2005, 11:23am
Time

"Time to realize that what you're doing right now, is exactly what you're supposed to be doing, and leave it at that." ~ Melissa K. Filtz 12-31-05


edited to get that middle initial in there, heh
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Dec 31st, 2005, 11:56am

on 12/31/05 at 11:23:10, Melissa wrote:
Time

"Time to realize that what you're doing right now, is exactly what you're supposed to be doing, and leave it at that." ~ Melissa K. Filtz 12-31-05


edited to get that middle initial in there, heh


I'm suppose to be wondering what the "K" stands for.

Knitternut?  Knut?  Knevermind?  Knerd?  Kneat?  Knobodygetstofindout?     I give up and will leave it at that.  K?
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Melissa on Dec 31st, 2005, 12:00pm

on 12/31/05 at 11:56:06, Kevin_M wrote:
I'm suppose to be wondering what the "K" stands for.

Knitternut?  Knut?  Knevermind?  Knerd?  Kneat?  Knobodygetstofindout?     I give up.  K?

Kay. ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Charlie on Dec 31st, 2005, 2:57pm
Cute stuff kids.....but....

What a buncha nerds. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/snicker point.gif http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/help book.gif

It will be 2006 in no tiime at all. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/lolabove.gif

Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/hand on hip.gif
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Dec 31st, 2005, 8:14pm

on 12/31/05 at 14:57:46, Charlie wrote:
Cute stuff kids.....but....

What a buncha nerds. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/snicker point.gif http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/help book.gif

It will be 2006 in no tiime at all. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/lolabove.gif

Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/hand on hip.gif


Yip, Charlie, time stands still for no man (or woman ;)) but we always carry on ticking, no matter what, until our clock eventually chimes.

Mel, you're a wise woman.
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Opus on Dec 31st, 2005, 8:52pm

on 12/31/05 at 02:10:27, fubar wrote:
There is no such thing as time.  Everything happened in a singularity, and time is our pathetic way of dealing with the amount of information that we consumed in that instant.  We are living in Tivo-land.  Only a few of us have access to the controls.



Right there is no such thing as time, but then I have this problem, many physical laws have time in their equations, so does that mean physics doesn't exist either, or do the laws simply exist because we created them.

I have devoted a night of insomnia to this but I ended up with Einstein being wrong. Even though Einstein says that time is not  a constant, but relative to your speed and location in space he still says it exists.

I guess I need another night to figure this out.

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Phil L on Dec 31st, 2005, 9:34pm
I think this thread is out of time........
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Dec 31st, 2005, 11:18pm

on 12/31/05 at 20:52:25, Opus wrote:
Right there is no such thing as time,

Without time, things would not evolve, or there would be no distance.  The speed of light is a constant.


Quote:
so does that mean physics doesn't exist or do the laws simply exist because we created them.

Without physics, explantions that make sense would be non-existant, the sun would not shine and atoms would not form molecules, we would not exist, therefore there is something to it.  The thoughts of Newton, Galileo, Einstein, among others would be insignificant.  As it is, they are at the top of the most influencial people in science.  We cannot create what already is and has been, only discover.  


Quote:
I ended up with Einstein being wrong. Even though Einstein says that time is not a constant, but relative to your speed and location in space he still says it exists.

Gravity is also a factor.  Of course time is not a constant, but it's existence has nothing to do with that.


Quote:
I guess I need another night to figure this out.

You're more ambitious than me, years of reading has shed light very gradually.

Your interest in this Paul is very commendable and I suspect you'll come upon some answers you're looking for.  Best to you.
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by BobG on Jan 1st, 2006, 11:39am
Gravity, speed, distance and time are all connected

if you’re falling out of a tree.

or trying to take care of 'duties' during a commercial.
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Opus on Jan 1st, 2006, 12:32pm
Kevin,

  I forgot about String theory, which I don't know too much about yet, but it probably holds the answers about time I am looking for.

 Gravity is another problem for me. The visual representation of an 3D object making a dish in a 2D plane of space does nothing to represent what happens in 3D space.  When I stack the planes the effect of falling toward an object disappears. Possibly the 10 dimensions of string theory would make this work, but only for 3 or 4 dimensions.

  Einsteins assertion that the speed of light in a vacuum is the fastest speed possible never seemed right to me, but with String theory's 10 dimensions, then the limit can be broken in higher dimension. I still have to think that Einstein is probably correct, he has never been proved wrong yet, and the last person claiming to have discovered something that traveled faster than light died for it  ;)

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 1st, 2006, 1:57pm

on 01/01/06 at 12:32:18, Opus wrote:
the answers about time I am looking for.



;;D


Paul, I was thinking on a quite simpler level concerning time.  I'm not mathmatically inclined so I have to remain elementary here.

Velocity  x  Time  =  Distance.

100mph  x  1 hour  =  100 miles.

If time is non-existent, then it's value would be zero.

100mph  x  0  =  0 distance.

100mph, for zero time would be zero distance.

or, the speed of light for zero time would be zero distance.  

I know its more complex than that and probably acceleration and displacement are more appropriate, but with time as a  zero factor, distance would not be traversed.


As for time and evolution, I'll avoid Darwin.

The computer you had ten years ago is not the same computer, technologically, you have now.  You could not have had the computer ten years ago you have now, technologically, because technological evolving took time.  If there was no time, it couldn't have evolved.  


Man, the holes that can be possibly punched into these examples are scary.   Be gentle.  


(Ueli, be nice  ;;D)


I should just defer to BobG's falling out a tree, or  ;;D commercial reality.

If falling out of a tree happens at 15mph, doing it for zero seconds would not be falling, no distance closer to the ground.   Without time, no distance.
(Sorry to drag you into my contorted thoughts Bob ::) )


That's as deep as I can explain and Bob's example was over my head.   :-[
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 1st, 2006, 2:53pm

Quote:
the sun would not shine and atoms would not form molecules,


Paul, for these, I've liked the star theory that Fred Hoyle did, perhaps derived from Arthur Eddington.  Hans Bethe won a Nobel Prize in 1967 for energy production in stars.  A long awaited Nobel was presented to India's Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar for the evolution of stars in 1983.

The best for molecules forming is Linus Pauling, physics trained who made the most from the Pauli Exclusion Principle; Nobel in Chemistry 1954 for the chemical bond.


Quote:
Gravity is also a factor

The factor of gravity with time becomes relevent when light travels through an area where gravity is present, in curved space.  Being that the space is curved, it covers more area, the light will curve or bend, following space and the shortest route.  Another beam of light traveling through space in an area not affected by gravity, uncurved, will actually travel less of an area of space and arrive faster, though both beams are traveling the same speed.  Time decreases around gravity due to further distance traveling through curved space.


but there's so much more.


now I fucked myself.  
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by pattik on Jan 1st, 2006, 3:17pm

Quote:
Gravity is another problem for me. The visual representation of an 3D object making a dish in a 2D plane of space does nothing to represent what happens in 3D space.  When I stack the planes the effect of falling toward an object disappears. Possibly the 10 dimensions of string theory would make this work, but only for 3 or 4 dimensions.



Quote:
Velocity  x  Time  =  Distance.

100mph  x  1 hour  =  100 miles.

If time is non-existent, then it's value would be zero.

100mph  x  0  =  0 distance.

100mph, for zero time would be zero distance.

or, the speed of light for zero time would be zero distance.  


Oooo--more, you guys, more.  Talk nerdy to me. ;;D
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by nani on Jan 1st, 2006, 3:19pm
Damn...some of you people are way too smart for me...trying to understand that is giving me a headache.
Mel, I like your explanation best.  ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by BobG on Jan 1st, 2006, 3:30pm

on 01/01/06 at 15:17:36, pattik wrote:
Oooo--more, you guys, more.  Talk nerdy to me. ;;D

ROTFLMAO   [smiley=crackup.gif]
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 1st, 2006, 3:30pm

on 01/01/06 at 14:53:11, Kevin_M wrote:
but there's so much more.



;;D


Bedtime stories for Bonzo.
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by thebbz on Jan 1st, 2006, 3:52pm
Here we are in time considering time. You intellectual types explain this. One year =1 revolution around the sun @ x mps. As the earth approaches closer to the sun on the elliptical orbit it begins to increase in speed. To the tune of approx 2500 mps faster. So does that mean time is slower in the winter? That sort of thing aint my bag baby.  :PE=MC2.
jb
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Opus on Jan 1st, 2006, 6:27pm
Time exists because we measure it. Really we cannot measure time actually because our current method of counting decaying atoms is is inaccurate. If we measure time by the distance that light travels in a vacuum that would perfect, that is if the Zero point theory is wrong and there is such a thing as a true vacuum.

 Basically I am saying that time is not measurable, we only can guess at it, so there must be a constant force that we do not know about that we perceive as time but we are only seeing its shadow. For all we know the laws of physics may not exist outside our little realm.

 I'm pretty sure that once we understand what gravity and inertia actually are then we will be closer to understanding how it all works together.

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 1st, 2006, 6:44pm
We still see the light of stars but it is an illusion as they died millions of years ago.

So in actual fact we still see the stars' past in our own present.  Where are we at present?  To someone else a past illusion?
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by LeLimey on Jan 1st, 2006, 6:50pm
Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares? We have booze and chocolate in the here and now and THAT my friends is all I need to know!  ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Jan 1st, 2006, 6:54pm

Quote:
Posted by: LeLimey Posted on: Today at 6:50pm
Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares? We have booze and chocolate in the here and now and THAT my friends is all I need to know!  


Amen!  The rest of you are making my eyes go in circles and my head hurt whilst I try to figure out what the hell you're saying.

I'm way too old to be this confused.

Carol
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Opus on Jan 1st, 2006, 7:06pm
I forgot my link :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1332368.stm

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 1st, 2006, 7:14pm

on 01/01/06 at 15:52:46, thebbz wrote:
So does that mean time is slower in the winter?



Insignificantly.  It may be a total of eight minutes over the course of three months starting from January 2nd.  



Quote:
That sort of thing aint my bag baby.

mine either, I'm not into the math.  


Posted by: LeLimey Posted on: Today at 7:50pm
Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares?

:)  
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Linda_Howell on Jan 1st, 2006, 8:22pm


Hey Kevin and Opus?  Go here
Quote:
www.mensa.org/
 

You've lost the rest of us.   [smiley=laugh.gif]


Linda
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by BikerBob on Jan 1st, 2006, 9:41pm
http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/5.gif

The past is history

The future is a mystery

The present is a gift

Set the controls for the heart of the sun

Time is measured by clocks

Your biological clock is your hypothalamus

HEAL thy hypothalamus !!


http://bestsmileys.com/thinking/2.gif

BB
Title: Less Time Travel
Post by Mr. Happy on Jan 1st, 2006, 11:32pm
Oh....bugger. I cut a slice last night, and again this Am....duress not included.
Good for another year.

Y'all are discussing time referendums, while the Big Boy's snuck in another "second" on the Atomic Clock. I'm not sure what that means in the long run, but if y'all spent more time Belly Bumping instead of considering the ramifications of time/strings/steamish, everything would go a lot easier.

HA's not included.
RJ
Title: Re: Less Time Travel
Post by Opus on Jan 1st, 2006, 11:46pm

on 01/01/06 at 23:32:27, Mr. Happy wrote:
but if y'all spent more time Belly Bumping instead of considering the ramifications of time/strings/steamish, everything would go a lot easier.


I have to assume you mean sex, which would mean I would need a sexual partner. Being married limits my options in that area. Also the term Belly bumping you mean sexual intercourse in the missionary position. I have tried that once so on to the 2 million other positions, that is when I find a sexual partner LOL.

Opus/Paul
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by ben_uk on Jan 2nd, 2006, 5:07am
THE EQUATION OF TIME

Not early to rise
      
From issue 2508 of New Scientist magazine, 16 July 2005, page 89
Ian Vickers, Mosman, New South Wales, Australia

Being very keen to see the return of the sun after the English midwinter, I began checking local sunrise and sunset times to see how the interval between them increases each day. The sunset time increases by more than a minute per day, but the sunrise time is getting earlier by considerably less than a minute each day. Why is there asymmetry? I suspect it has something to do with latitude, but what?
Your correspondent has discovered a quirk of astronomy usually termed the "equation of time". I was wondering recently whether day length really changes faster at some times of year and slower at others. I plugged a table of sunrise and sunset into Excel and the graph shows that the day length stays briefly but depressingly static in midwinter, then changes rapidly through spring into another short period of near stasis in summer.
But then I noticed the oddly different behaviour of sunrise and sunset times: the two curves are not symmetrical. So I found the midpoint of the two, which gives the apparent (or true) solar time of noon. When you plot the difference between this time and the mean (or clock) time of noon across the year, you discover the complex curve seen in the second graph, which is a visual representation of the equation of time. Sunrise and sunset are symmetrical about this line.
Steve Head, Cholsey, Wallingford, Oxon, UK
The asymmetry in the rates of change of sunrise and sunset arises from the nature of Earth's orbit around the sun, and is caused by variations in the length of the solar day, the time between solar noons on successive days, throughout the year. Sunrise and sunset are essentially symmetrical about solar noon, but solar noon is not always at clock noon. The sources of this variation are, firstly, the Earth's elliptical orbit around the sun, and secondly, the 23.5-degree inclination of the Earth's rotational axis to the axis of its orbit around the sun.
From solar noon one day to solar noon the next, the Earth not only has to turn through 360 degrees, but through about 1 more degree to compensate for the movement along its orbital path during that time. While the Earth reliably turns through 360 degrees once every 23 hours 56 minutes, regardless of the time of year, it is the variation in how much further the Earth has to turn to complete the solar day that gives rise to the varying solar day lengths.
The Earth speeds up as it approaches the perihelion of its elliptical orbit, the point of closest approach to the sun, and slows down as it approaches the aphelion. The increased speed at the perihelion, together with the shorter distance to the sun, means the angle swept out by the Earth about the sun every day is greater near the perihelion than near the aphelion. So more rotation is needed to complete a solar day near the perihelion, causing the solar day to lengthen. This factor generates a sine wave-like variation in the length of the solar day with a period of one year.
The second source of variation is more difficult to visualise. At the summer and winter solstices, the plane joining the Earth's rotational axis to the centre of the sun is perpendicular to the plane of Earth's orbit, and a point on the equator has the least distance to travel between one noon and the next, so the solar day length is at it shortest. By contrast, at the equinoxes the Earth's axis is tilted towards or away from the orbital plane. Now, a point on the equator must travel further between consecutive noons, and a solar day is longer than at the solstice by about 22 seconds. This mechanism operates at other latitudes, which causes a variation in the solar day length with two peaks and two troughs a year.
These two sources of variation together create an intricate pattern of solar day length. While the changes from day to day are small, they are cumulative and can lead to marked differences between solar time and clock time during a year. They are the bane of sundial makers and are expressed in the equation of time, which shows a pattern resembling a sine wave of six months' period superimposed on a sine wave of one year's period. The time difference ranges from about 14 minutes negative to more than 16 minutes positive, with the steepest slope, of more than 20 seconds a day, occurring in December. It is the shifting solar noon added to what would otherwise be a symmetrical movement of sunrise and sunset that produces the asymmetry.
Ian Vickers, Mosman, New South Wales, Australia
There are several websites where you can find out more about this. Try: -

www.analemma.com

http://www.cso.caltech.edu/outreach/log/NIGHT%20and%20DAY.pdf  

edit;-
Try: www.analemma.com
:o
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 2nd, 2006, 5:36am

on 01/02/06 at 05:07:07, ben_uk wrote:
are expressed in the equation of time, which shows a pattern resembling a sine wave of six months' period superimposed on a sine wave of one year's period.
 
       
 
 
The following table is for the first 10 days after perihelion. The "Day" column is the number of days after January 2nd.  
http://www.analemma.com/Graphics/eccentricity/Eccentricity_Time_Chart.GIF


While this doesn’t seem like much, don't forget that the time difference is accumulative. As the following graph shows, over the course of 3 months the error adds up to almost 8 minutes. approximate winter's time

Example: How much does the sun's position differ from what our watch reads on January 10th?

http://www.analemma.com/Graphics/eccentricity/EccentricityMathGraphics/EllipOrbitFormula2.GIF





Being I don't understand the math, I'm out of here.



on 01/01/06 at 18:50:52, LeLimey wrote:
Past.. Present.. Future.. who cares?  ;)





Quote:
GENERAL POSTS
This is where you will post your normal everyday messages...


;;D   This is NOT normal.


Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:31am
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/cosmos-second-law-thermodynamics-time.htm

Past Present and Future and the One Way Direction of Time
Eric Lerner perfectly explains this important problem of why Time must be directional, contrary to the laws of modern particle physics;

This is one of the deepest paradoxes of conventional physics today. According to all the laws of physics there should be no distinction between past and future, no direction to time. Since the second law says that entropy necessarily increases with time, and thus the past and future differ, the second law, too, is contradicted.
In relativity theory, for example, time is simply the fourth dimension - there is no more difference between past and future than between left and right. There is no flow of time: all the equations would look the same if time were reversed. Nor is this true of relativity alone. Newton's laws and the laws of quantum mechanics also are what physicists call 'time reversible'; they define no unique direction for time. If one were to make a movie of two billiard balls colliding, for example, it would look just as credible if it were run in reverse.
But in the real world, there is a difference. If it is two raw eggs that collide and break in the movie, it would look absurd in reverse. The two eggs would assemble themselves out of a puddle and roll off. In the real world babies are born, never unborn, they grow up, never down, and eggs are scrambled, never unscrambled. These processes are all irreversible: time moves forward, toward growth or decay.
Hence the fundamental question: If 'the laws of the universe' have no direction in time, why does the real world? Why do laws like the second law, which have a direction for time, work?
The conventional answer to this question is, strangely, the Big Bang. The Big Bang started the universe off in a highly orderly and regular state- a 'perfect' state of very low entropy. Since the universe must run down through states of increasing disorder, closer to equilibrium (the state in which there is no flow of energy), the direction of time is defined. Time is just the direction 'away' from the Big Bang. If there was no Big Bang, there would supposedly be no difference between past and future. The universe would be at equilibrium, and no event would diminish past from future. But the unique event of the Big Bang, so symmetric in space, creates an asymmetry in time.
Thus, if there was no Big Bang - as seems to be the case - we have further questions: Why does time move forward? Is there a difference between past and future, or is it, as Einstein believed, merely a persistent illusion?
The importance of the answers extends far beyond their role at the center of a consistent cosmology. They strike at the heart of some of the greatest mysteries faced by science, philosophy and religion - the questions of the nature of human consciousness, the relation of mind and body, and free will. The distinction between past, present, and future is basic to our experience of consciousness - we are conscious in the now, we remember the past, but we cannot know the future. It also is central to our idea of free will, for it implies that our actions in the present affect the future, that the past is fixed but the future can be changed. How can these ideas be reconciled with a concept of physical laws in which past, present and future all exist equally and cannot be distinguished?
The problem of 'reversible time,' then, arises because scientists improperly abstract reality and believe their highly accurate equations to be absolutely, infinitely precise. It is reversible time that is subjective, an illusion, not irreversible time. The real world is continually coming into existence, created by an infinitely complex web of instabilities and interactions. As Prigogine puts it, 'Time is creation. The future is just not there.'
Time's irreversibility is based on the continuity of space, on its infinite divisibility. (Lerner, 1991)

Once we realize that it is not Time but wave Motion which is fundamental, then it becomes obvious why Time is directional. If we apply this understanding of Time to Matter as Spherical Standing Waves in Space, this then leads to the following explanation of Past, Present, and Future. As it takes Time for the In-Wave to flow into its Wave-Center, thus the In-Waves are the Future, and in time will meet at their Wave-Center (the Present) and after flowing through the Wave-Center become Out-Waves (the past). This is important for it explains why Time is directional because the Wave Motion of Space is Directional, i.e. In and Out Waves travel in Opposite Directions relative to the Wave-Center (Present).
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 2nd, 2006, 6:51am

on 01/02/06 at 06:31:25, Jasmyn wrote:
Past Present and Future and the One Way Direction of Time
Eric Lerner



Thanks Jaz


Sooo, I take it, there IS such a thing as time.   ;)


which was my point, a looong TIME ago.   ;;D
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by vig on Jan 2nd, 2006, 8:20am
what did y'all put in your tea?
I want some.
;;D
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by LeLimey on Jan 2nd, 2006, 8:25am

on 01/02/06 at 08:20:34, vig wrote:
what did y'all put in your tea?


Milk, sugar and a jammy ring to dunk... HEAVEN! ;;D
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 2nd, 2006, 12:12pm
This all started in the past, with the wonder of an eminent future birth.
The singularity of a time filled with brain waves and lyrics spread out over time lines and pages on the virtual plane of present technology.

Some just had time to cope with what was, is and will be the cuisine and party trick for this season, some reminded us to remember the past to be able to enjoy the present and be prepared for the future.  Some just waited for time to pass to enter with new hope into 2006.

The physical laws of Nature were inspected from past or present and possible prospective analogies on which we base our current knowledge.  We compared Einstein’s past assertions with theories that may have strings in our future that may represent or give us illusions of a more dimensional objective.

Evolution, Mathematics and Quantum Physics came and went as ideas with lightning speed through the vacuum of our own curved universe.

Talk like this gave rise to some more primitive emotions, which survived through the ages into the present.  During this passage of time we noted that times change but that the Hypothalamus still ticks to its own clock.

There were very happy people and there were other people, obviously  ;;D, that considered their various positions under the sun, although we determined that the Earth speeds up and slows down due to its elliptical orbit and not our own, Uuuhhhmm maybe [smiley=huh.gif], horizontal positions.

Errors were noted and patterns were established of waves of time gained as well as lost.  A circle was completed, from beginning to end.

"Where is the beginning and where is the end?" you might ask while bystanders were dunking donuts in their sweet tea.

This was, is and will be The Circle of Life my friend.


Hakuna Matata
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Melissa on Jan 2nd, 2006, 12:41pm

on 01/02/06 at 12:12:31, Jasmyn wrote:
Talk like this gave rise to some more primitive emotions, which survived through the ages into the present.

I have spent many minutes, hours and days contemplating the past and how I, and we, as humans, fit into the equation.  What is to be learned from the past, how it fits into the future, and tried to find answers that I thought I knew subconsciously, but would never solve while awake.   Tis the revelation I quoted myself as saying earlier.  I had it while letting my dog out to take a shit.  Seriously!  It all came to me, this endless need to fill up a hole in my soul, was finally filled.  I realized while gazing skyward at the sun highlighted clouds, that my purpose was not to search until I knew the answers to my questions, but to just "be".  I was doing exactly as I was supposed to be doing, as I am, with everything I am given and have taken.  I wish everyone could feel what I felt at that moment... in time. :-/


Quote:
There were very happy people and there were other people, obviously  ;;D, that considered their various positions under the sun, although we determined that the Earth speeds up and slows down due to its elliptical orbit and not our own, Uuuhhhmm maybe [smiley=huh.gif], horizontal positions.

And there are some who believed adaptation was the center of it all.  Yet some would call them unintellectual and naive.  Instead of leaving mathematical equations and contemplation, they realized they weren't going to be around forever, so they breathed life everyday.  It's another abstract that isn't studied enough... IMHO.


Quote:
Hakuna Matata

cie la vis 8)

Now that I am sure I have completely skewed this thread with my interpretation, I bid you adieu. :-*

P.S. I am no longer feeling a need to see and do everything, but to let some mysteries, remain mysterious.
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 2nd, 2006, 1:06pm

Quote:
Talk like this gave rise to some more primitive emotions, which survived through the ages into the present.


A reference to what Patti said:


Quote:
Oooo--more, you guys, more.  Talk nerdy to me.  


And Freud confirmed ;;D


Quote:
There were very happy people and there were other people, obviously  , that considered their various positions under the sun, although we determined that the Earth speeds up and slows down due to its elliptical orbit and not our own, Uuuhhhmm maybe , horizontal positions.


A reference to the dialogue between Mr Happy and the Penguin man, Opus and follow-up by Ben UK. ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Charlie on Jan 2nd, 2006, 1:37pm
http://subscribe.smileygenerator.us/new/albums//timer.gif?SSImageQuality=Full
Yer hurtin' what's left of my brain.  

Charlie http://smiles.ru/coll/pain/pain05.gif?SSImageQuality=Full
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jan 3rd, 2006, 11:05am
I'd try to understand this stuff better but I don't have the time.  ;;D
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by imnotbub on Jan 4th, 2006, 11:28am
and the last person claiming to have discovered something that traveled faster than light died for it


I don't get it
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Wendy on Jan 4th, 2006, 2:43pm
Some people have WAY to much time on their hands ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by floridian on Jan 4th, 2006, 3:38pm

on 12/31/05 at 02:30:24, Jasmyn wrote:
Then why is it night where you are and day where I am?


For the same reason that when it rains on me here, it may not be raining on you there, and when it is cold here, others are warm.  Most ideas about time are based on sun position (which is a local phenomena) - time is not really based on sun position.
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Charlie on Jan 4th, 2006, 3:54pm
I like Poul Anderson, Robert Silverberg and Keith Laumer for time travel gurus. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/bhole.gif

Charlie
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 5th, 2006, 2:31am
Dr. VonSchnelling puts it best:


As I told my friend Albert, time is relative. A zecond is a zecond because vee zay it is a zecond. A day is a day because zat is the time it takes for our vorld to rotate once on its axis. On another vorld, it would be different. A machine has no concept of time. Certainly you can make a machine count forvard with quartz and crystal and mechanisms zat zimulate time, but zat is all it does... zimulate. How do you make a machine count... backwards? How am I to tell my computer "take me to June 16th, 1927"? And does the machine require me to input a precise time? Should I be precise to the minute? the zecond? the nanozecond?  
[smiley=laugh.gif]

http://www.timetravelinstitute.com/theory/
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 5th, 2006, 2:40am

on 01/04/06 at 15:54:26, Charlie wrote:
I like Poul Anderson, Robert Silverberg and Keith Laumer for time travel gurus. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/bhole.gif

Charlie


Charlie how about:

Piers Anthony, Robert Jordan and Jasper FForde?

They make me get lost in time ;)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Woobie on Jan 5th, 2006, 3:35am
it is what it is, man............... 8)
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by kissmyglass on Jan 5th, 2006, 6:21am
Hey Jas,
When you figure out how to get me tomorrows lottery numbers today, let me know.  :)

Kev
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Charlie on Jan 5th, 2006, 5:49pm
Well Jas:

The thing is that I began slowing down SF reading during the cyberpunk craze. I've gotten away from it all for the last 15 years. I let my LOCUS sub drop. To show you how far away I am, I think I may have heard of Jasper FForde.

I don't even scan the bookracks now. Kinda sad.

I liked most of what they used to call hard sf and silliness from Keith Laumer and other dinosaurs.

Larry Niven was one of my later favorites though. Not easy to read some of the time. I did buy an Analog last year just to check in. Jeeze! 5 bucks now! Not worth it. I know where you are coming from though. It can be fun. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/cantwrite.gif


Charlie http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/spacedog.gif
Title: Re: Time Travel
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 5th, 2006, 6:05pm
Charlie it is cheaper to belong to a library ;;D

Then you can travel through time in any book.


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