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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006 General Board Posts >> The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
        
(Message started by: Mark C on Nov 19^th, 2004, 12:56pm)

Title: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Mark C on Nov 19^th, 2004, 12:56pm

O.U.C.H (http://www.clusterheadaches.org/), Organization for Understanding Cluster Headaches is pleased to announce it’s full support in the promotion of the pending Psilocybin Clinical Trials set to be conducted at the McLean Hospital (http://www.mclean.harvard.edu/), Harvard Medical School (http://hms.harvard.edu/hms/home.asp).

O.U.C.H. will help to promote the study to its members and provide open discussion of this study on their website. We further wish to assist by donating one thousand dollars [$1,000.00] to MAPS (http://www.maps.org/ ) specifically for this study.

We wish to acknowledge and thank ClusterBusters (http://www.clusterbusters.com) for all of the effort put forth to bring us all to this moment.

Sincerely,

OUCH Officers
OUCH Board of Directors

Proposed new research (http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v14n1-html/mdmapsilo.html)

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by alleyoop on Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:07pm

Fantastic! Surely a ground breaking occasion and hopefully a page to go down in history. I know many of us have high hopes for this study. Here's to it being all that's anticipated and more!

........................alley

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Peppermint on Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:15pm

Mark -

please give me a call when you have a chance, preferably after 9pm EST or let me know where I can call you . re: this study.

Pep :)

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by fubar on Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:32pm

AWESOME ;;D

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by notseinfeld on Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:36pm

Released my med records for their unrestricted use and donate my head, fwiw, to be used as needed.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by JDH on Nov 19^th, 2004, 1:53pm

Infuckingcredible!!!

WTG OUCH.

Jim

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by catlind on Nov 19^th, 2004, 2:51pm

Careful Mark - you might be accused of having a personal agenda here.

< /sarcasm>

:-X

Cat

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Bob P on Nov 19^th, 2004, 3:06pm

Quote:

Released my med records for their unrestricted use and donate my head, fwiw, to be used as needed.

Same here. Guess I'll have to be one of their control group!

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Nov 19^th, 2004, 3:42pm

fantastic news Mark.
thanks

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by notseinfeld on Nov 19^th, 2004, 4:03pm

cool beans Bobp---but hey, age before beauty. You first!!

:-*

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by firebrix on Nov 19^th, 2004, 4:42pm

Thank You OUCH!!!
WTG! History in the making.........
firebrix

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Magman on Nov 19^th, 2004, 5:10pm

http://kdlltd.com/fuckeneh/surf2-F.jpg

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Racer1_NC on Nov 19^th, 2004, 5:16pm

Great news!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by maria9 on Nov 19^th, 2004, 5:31pm

Thanks OUCH,

For supporting the only research that I know of that was initiated by the sufferers as opposed to the big pharmaceutical companies.

We still need to raise additional funds for this research project to move forward. If any of you are interested in donating to the cluster headache study, please indicate to MAPS that you are specifically donating to the cluster headache research study. Also please note that all funds donated will go to the cluster headache study, as MAPS will not be charging any overhead fees for their part in assisting this study.

http://www.maps.org./support.html

Thanks all to my partners in pain.

Marsha

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Flounder on Nov 19^th, 2004, 8:15pm

Way to go OUCH!!!!!!!! ;;D

The donation and support is much appreciated. I knew you guys would step up to the plate. Good goin you guys.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by thebbz on Nov 19^th, 2004, 9:03pm

Thanks to OUCH. Donation on the way, not much but hey. Its about time.

bb

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Renee on Nov 19^th, 2004, 9:36pm

Fighting the beast together...YES!!!

Thank you OUCH!

Thank you Cluster Busters!

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 20^th, 2004, 2:19am

I want to thank the officers and the Board of Directors of OUCH for taking this action and joining us in what we all hope will lead to better treatments and more pain-free lives for everyone that suffers from cluster headaches.

Thank you all for your hard work in getting this matter resolved during a time when I know you have many important projects that you are currently working on for OUCH. Thank you also for the donation that I can assure you will be put to good use.

I'm sure we will have many discussions regarding this project and others in the future, as to how we can work together to improve the lives of those that have suffered far too much and too long.

Thank you again, very much,
Bob Wold
Clusterbusters

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Karla on Nov 20^th, 2004, 5:24pm

I got a release of info paper from my dr. I will have to send it. But I need more copies I have seen so many different drs and neuros I have records all over the place.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by kissmyglass on Nov 20^th, 2004, 8:00pm

Woohoo! Awesome job people!

A special thanks to Marsha & her hubby. Thank$ :-*

Kev

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pegase on Nov 21^st, 2004, 8:52am

[smiley=thumb.gif]

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Carl_D on Nov 21^st, 2004, 1:27pm

WAY TOO COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gonna print this one out and take to my GP. I think he thought I was a drugged out nut when I mentioned it to him before.

Peace,
Carl D

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by forgetfulnot on Nov 21^st, 2004, 8:16pm

on 11/19/04 at 14:51:36, catlind wrote:

Careful Mark - you might be accused of having a personal agenda here.

< /sarcasm>

:-X

Cat

I remember something like that.

Lee

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Turts on Nov 23^rd, 2004, 7:18pm

WTG!!!

Good work

Turts

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Callico_Kid on Nov 23^rd, 2004, 11:48pm

Thank you from the bottom of my head!

Contribution to be forthcoming as soon as able.

Jerry

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 24^th, 2004, 5:20am

I was talking to one of these guys about it but hasn't it already been done? Look at the meds for clusterheadaches. Use Imitrex for example, it has DMT and this is really getting to the crazy end of pychs/hullicinigens. Ergot is used in so many of the drugs for chs, and lsd. It's all been researched long ago and bottled by DrugCo. I doubt it's a coincidence they are using the same chemicals. And we still live in a world were cannibas is illegal in many countries, like North America. As if the drug companies, the most powerful companies on the planet in terms of real power and control are going to allow this. Not now, not for quite some time can this work. The whole political economic structure would have to change first and it's going nowhere. It's too bad but wait and see the reality in the end.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Melissa on Nov 24^th, 2004, 7:50am

on 11/24/04 at 05:20:40, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:

???

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 24^th, 2004, 7:56am

Oh come on, give me a break. You don't really expect me to explain what I'm talking about do you? I have absolutley no idea and your guess is as good as mine. It could be anything but I suspect PURE NONSENSE.
peace Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Renee on Nov 24^th, 2004, 8:46am

[smiley=huh.gif]

Have you ever heard of Harvard?

It may not pass the drug companies in the very near future but MANY are or have already found relief...it's already working. Already working without triptans, needles, narcotics, e.r. trips and, in many cases, without prevents.

We live in a society where it is illegal to commit suicide, not to mention that ends not only the clusters but also one's life, and clusterheads being proactive in getting research performed for a possible new treatment regimen is a glimmer of hope in the day to day pain that so many of us share.

This study brings optimism and hope to many cluster sufferers. Please consider the many clusterheads that are living pf because of the ingredients involved in the study. As well, please consider the sufferers contemplating the alternative, suicide, that might find the hope they need to keep fighting by the current results and upcoming study.

Every bit of hope counts when one suffers from such a debilitating way of life.

May there be peace,
Renee

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 24^th, 2004, 9:14am

All that is needed is the words. Try mushrooms, try a tab they have been doing in Mexico for 2000 years. Yes I talked to some Andrew dude from Harvard via e-mail but it wasn't too enlightening. Old, old ground. Nothing ground breaking there at all. If you can't find shrooms go to BC, skip Harvard.

peace love
Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Bob P on Nov 24^th, 2004, 10:02am

I think sequel is simply looking at the reality of this.

Doc Sewell is currently recompiling the data busters has already collected (data which is probably biased toward the successful since they would be more apt to respond to the buster surveys). This results in a medical article justifying looking at it further.

They then need a number of diagnosed clsuterheads who have never tried the treatment. They administer the treatment and determine the actual efficacy of it (which will probably be less than the numbers busters have).

Then begins the study of how/why it may be effective.

Then the real challange. Getting a drug company to do the R & D to develop an actual drug. Clusterheads being such a small group, it's not profitable for a drug company to do this. Heck, we can't even get Glaxo to cut the trex dose to 3mg for us. Even if it did happen, whats the timeline?

Harvard study - 2 years
Research - 4 years
Drug company development - 6 - 10 years

The probability is that it will never result in an actual treatment. Maybe the best that will come of it is what's happening right now. Clusterheads get the word out to other clusterheads to try it.

You're right Renee, it is a ray of hope but reality is that is probably what it will remain.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 24^th, 2004, 10:09am

Yes and hope can be a very dangerous thing. That was him Andrew Sewell but we are very different beings.

peace love
Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 24^th, 2004, 11:41am

I tend to agree with the content of what Andrew is saying. Ultimately, this treatment will hinge upon an economic and political change (marijuana is still a schedule 1 substance!!... meaning it has high potential for abuse and 'NO MEDICAL VALUE'). Another thing to consider... if Pharmaceutical Company A charges $60 per dose (and they will charge alot) why would I take it when I could manufacture it for $0.60 per dose (especially if the Conservative FEDERAL government won't recognize the legality of it)? The investors in Pharmaceutical Company A will also have to look past the fact that their 'Patented Compound A' can be manufactured by any Joe Doe for a fraction of the cost thereby undercutting their profits.

The components of psilocybian mushrooms were isolated and studied a long time ago. Andrew is right, this is not ground-breaking stuff. Psilocybin pills were actually synthesized.

http://www.stainblue.com/ah.html

http://www.stainblue.com/

The study of psilocybin has led to the discovery of many modern medicines, especially Sansert and SSRI's (the scientists apparently fucked something up when they removed the hallucinations as a side effect and added organ scarring and physical dependence as side effects)

Having said that, I still think it is a good idea to pursue this study... it does have value, if only for setting a precedent that CH can be treated with psilocybin. I do not expect a 'psilocybin prescription' to result from this study. We are at least 30 years away from that kind of political enlightenment.

--- Steve

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Nov 24^th, 2004, 12:16pm

~~All~~ oops. Some of the above is true, but it still legitmizes the treatment.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Ueli on Nov 24^th, 2004, 12:53pm

on 11/24/04 at 05:20:40, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:

.... Use Imitrex for example, it has DMT and this is really getting to the crazy end of pychs/hullicinigens. Ergot is used in so many of the drugs for chs, and lsd. It's all been researched long ago and bottled by DrugCo. I doubt it's a coincidence they are using the same chemicals. ....

Look at the gibberish this guy writes, just stringing together some catch words he has picked up somewhere. It's even worse than the pseudo-scientific reasonings of snake oil merchants.
If he was a true clusterhead with a passion to help finding relieve to our affliction, he wouldn't mess up every thread with his void gobbledygook.

IMHO he is just a fucking troll and troublemaker, and his "peace love" are the ultimate of hypocrisy.

Get lost, Andrew Troll!

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Jonny on Nov 24^th, 2004, 5:09pm

Thank you, Ueli!

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Bob P on Nov 24^th, 2004, 5:34pm

Quote:

on Today at 02:20, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:.... Use Imitrex for example, it has DMT and this is really getting to the crazy end of pychs/hullicinigens. Ergot is used in so many of the drugs for chs, and lsd. It's all been researched long ago and bottled by DrugCo. I doubt it's a coincidence they are using the same chemicals. ....

Look at the gibberish this guy writes, just stringing together some catch words he has picked up somewhere. It's even worse than the pseudo-scientific reasonings of snake oil merchants.
If he was a true clusterhead with a passion to help finding relieve to our affliction, he wouldn't mess up every thread with his void gobbledygook.

I have to admit I am not buying the DMT in Imitrex statement but Sansert is a kissing cousin of LSD and what clusterhead hasn't tried ergots. He may have a strange way of saying it but I think I understand what he's getting at and I tend to agree.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by tommyD on Nov 25^th, 2004, 9:48am

Ignoring the bad science, Andrew has some good points. The ‘busters are well aware of the corporate, legal and political hurdles in our pursuit of this treatment. No one has ever claimed this would be anything but the first step in a long process. But we have to give chase and there are plenty of good reasons for doing this study.

In fact, the issue was raised at one point: why go through the hassle, why not just fly under the radar and keep this to ourselves and the few sufferers who stumble across this info? The idea was soundly rejected, even by the fellow who brought it up. Such selfishness would be inexcusable.

Having a big drug company manufacture and market the drug as a prescription medication is only one way to make it available to sufferers. A small generic-drug manufacturer is one possibility, but at least at first, this could follow the medical marijuana model, with grassroots networks supplying the substance or providing the information for sufferers to make their own. All of these models require political and legal developments, but things are moving in this direction now (the reelection of Bush appears to be a setback, but public support for medical pot remains strong).

Just getting the word out is an important part of beating the beast. But the word has to be more than just “try mushrooms.” I sure hope anyone who tries them researches the matter more than that.

By the way, this has NOT been done before. This is the first study of the efficacy of indole-ring hallucinogens for the treatment of cluster headaches.

Andrew seems to say anecdotal evidence is enough. It isn’t. We have much to learn, much to confirm, and this study will provide useful information. A key component will be finding a minimum effective dosage. While the ‘busters have been doing this informally, this will apply the scientific method to the search. Should a non-psychedelic or minimally-psychedelic dose prove effective, this will go a long way toward widespread adoption of the treatment.

And there are places where certain indole-ring hallucinogens are legal, and tens of thousands of clusterheads live in these places But no legitimate physician would prescribe or recommend hallucinogens without scientific evidence. Getting the word out to sufferers is one thing, but getting the word out to docs is much more efficient. Docs want to see evidence.

To be redundant as well as long-winded, this is the just the first step in a long process. Those unwilling to take the step will please clear the stairway.

-tommyD

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by 1MajorPain on Nov 25^th, 2004, 10:36am

Well said Tommy!

Major
still PF!

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 26^th, 2004, 8:38am

I have a strange way of saying just about everything. It's just me. I agree though, if it helps even one. That is the bigger picture I was missing. Its just so difficult to stay positive as you know with the med community. And I don't trust them but they shouldn't take it personally. I don't trust them, the FDA, The US, my own gotv. religions, television, people for guns, people against guns,dentists (they will out tracking devices in the fillings you know.) Yes I'm paranoid but I think it's a good thing. lol

peace love
Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Melissa on Nov 26^th, 2004, 11:23am

Andrew, a few days ago your flag showed you're from Canada....now it says your from India? Is that by way of Canada, or are you gonna move again by Monday?

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 26^th, 2004, 11:32am

No, I'm in Ontario I put that in the profile. I just really dream of India and don't really like looking at the Canadian flag. I would have put anything else but I didn't see an option to turn it off. It feels all "patriotic" to me and I'm far from that.

peace love
Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 26^th, 2004, 12:15pm

on 11/24/04 at 05:20:40, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:

but hasn't it already been done?

Old, old ground. Nothing ground breaking there at all.

Mendel's findings were old, old ground before the they were discovered and genetics put to good use.
There was nothing new about moldy bread before Albert Sabin's testing in Sonoma State Home and NJ State Hospital in Woodbine. Jonah Salk's vaccine was tested at Polk State School in PA.
Dr. Max Rinkel conducted experiments with LSD in 1957 at Boston Psychopathic Hospital, all old stuff I guess.
Marvin Minsky of MIT, co-founder of its artificial intelligence lab worked with Frank Rosenblatt, inventor of the Perceptron, a classic form of neural net in 1957 also. Old stuff. I will disregard mentioning what has come to fruitation from this start.
No, nothing ground breaking there at all.
But perhaps if you just read the Tom Swift series of books you may have learned, the power of a right idea will always overcome a seemingly overwhelming challenge.

If I may quote tommyD

Quote:

Those unwilling to take the step will please clear the stairway.

Kevin M

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 26^th, 2004, 12:34pm

Knowledge the natives have possessed for 1000s of years without any need of syth chemicals. The Native Mexicans still do dances and prayers to the god of the mushroom and it's healing powers many times a year. But who can argue with the American way is the right way and such. Silly white men.

peace love

Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 26^th, 2004, 12:48pm

on 11/26/04 at 12:34:38, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:

But who can argue with...

It's very apparent, you can't.

Kevin M

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 26^th, 2004, 12:50pm

Quite likely, I agree my man.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 26^th, 2004, 12:54pm

on 11/26/04 at 12:50:02, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:

Quite likely, I agree my man.

I might guess you not having any point would be an unarguable then.

Kevin M

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 26^th, 2004, 12:59pm

I just agree with you on the whole debate and believe you to be the winner as I was running out long ago.

peace love
Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 26^th, 2004, 1:09pm

on 11/26/04 at 12:59:36, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:

I just agree...I was running out long ago.

Some are always the last to know.

Agreeable.

I seem to have been reminded, no point here.

Kevin M

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by IHateSequelsNotH on Nov 26^th, 2004, 1:16pm

I know I've never had a point to anything I said im my life really. So there is no point trying to debate anything with me. I simply make no sense whatsoever. but why would I?
peace love
Andrew

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 26^th, 2004, 1:24pm

on 11/26/04 at 13:16:45, IHateSequelsNotH wrote:

there is no point trying to debate anything with me

Let me conclude and clarify...

It's not only that your debating ::) was pointless, I meant there was no point in you being you.

Kevin M

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Nov 26^th, 2004, 1:39pm

In the dictionary, under futile...

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Ueli on Nov 26^th, 2004, 2:43pm

Don't feed the Troll !

The topic of this thread is much too important for all of us to mess it up with childish arguments with this moron. :(

"He has some good points" - true, picked up by scanning a few threads, so he can, as a true troll should, make the impression he knows what he's taking about. But the fact is: He hasn't contributed one single argument worth discussing. All he does is waste our time and DJ's bandwidth.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by thebbz on Nov 26^th, 2004, 3:30pm

I see poor mixed up Andrew has hijacked another thread. To get back on subject. I have after 25 years not been able to find any prevent that works. I have tried all the old and the "new", drug therapies as the neuro has directed with no success. Due to the lack of this alternative therapy's previous studies being incomplete, I have to resort to experimentation,breaking the law-vs-known R&D, proper admistration and possible relief from the beast. I resent the fact I have to do it this way, however apathy is not the answer. We have to support OUCH and continue to fight this affliction we all have as though it were a Kip 9. Again I mailed a check to OUCH with a donation and THANK DEEPLY all the work our fellow clusterheads do every day to support each other.
And I will pray that these things work when I try them, I administer myself properly, and there are no other complications.
I found this alternative here with the support only other sufferers could give. Thanks again.
BB

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Lebowski_Dude on Dec 13^th, 2004, 9:43am

Ummmm...could we stay on the topic of this thread, please?

Anyone else recoginise the legitimacy of indole-hallucinogens AND THC as viable treatments, or topics of research?
Yes: Sansert and LSD are 'kissing-cousins', both synthesised from Ergot..and we ALL know Ergot.
Before the 'man' [whom-ever HE, or SHE is] clamped down on Hallucinogens and Marijuana..there were some TRUE studies going on re: the use of these psychotropic substances in the fields of therapy/analysis [late 50s-60s, Claudio Naranjo, a brilliant Chilean Shrink, for example; before Leary and crew got a BIT carried away]..
I dont see why they shouldnt be Scientifically 're-studied' to determine their potential usage in treating CH and other 'headache' sufferers.
These plants/fungi and plant/fungi derivatives have been very succesful in treating [limited studies due to the DEA, etc. restrictions..]: Alcoholism [see: Impact of peyote/peyotl on DECREASING the incidence of Alcoholism in Native American Reservations], as well as LSD/Peyote/etc., being used to help terminally ill/dying patients deal not only with PAIN but FEAR/DENIAL re: their impending 'voyage' to whatever comes next..[hopefully there's no HEADACHES THERE!].
Marijuana is also a bronchial AND vasodialator..BUT is also highly carcinogenic..but there's ways around that [smoking the THC/'bud' at the right temp so as to avoid smoking burning vegetative matter: ie: just 'sublimate' the actual THC crystals].
This 'world' is ONE organism and I believe there's a 'natural' cure for every 'disease' out there...alot of them are being destroyed in the rainforests, etc. BUT the ones we have..let's AT LEAST TRY THEM [SCIENTIFICALLY!].

PS:
Anyone who's NOT familiar with hallucinogens is taking a BIG risk chomping on some blotter/shrooms/etc.; as they CAN be quite dangerous [if one has significant Emotional, psychological issues, or an underlying genetic predisposition for mental illness].

So 'suggesting' to people to go out and get 'dosed' is pretty F~%$£ng IRRESPONSIBLE.
I've seen/dealt with/treated way too many people who did just that and opened a Pandora's Box that they couldnt close.

I think most of us will be old and gray [if not already] before we see anything 'useful' ACTUALLY develop out of these types of studies with indole-hallucinogens and marijuana..unfortunately.

I hope I'm wrong.

Later.

The Dude

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Lebowski_Dude on Dec 14^th, 2004, 7:10pm

JMIN..

Old..hmmm, no, that's a state of mind..grey, a few flecks, yeah;
just mainly balding..but that must the result of 24 years of mind-bending headaches..~(;>

My comment re: my pessimism was directed at the 'establishment'..[medical/gov..not to mention the 'general public] recognising, and legitamising [and 'allowing' the use of such substances for research, etc.] the VALUE of psychotropics in being useful aids/tools for: Spiritual development, medical treatments, et al.

Versus locking people up for exercising their right [responsibly] to 'experiment/investigate'..'beyond the doors of perception'.

Ive, personally [and professionally] experienced/seen the 'benefits' of utilising such substances [in an educated/informed manner]...

Harmaline is something that the Psilocybin Team may want to look into too..just as a side note..
vERY intereting and full of promise.

Pardon my pessimism..but Im sure yer familiar with the nightmare of red-tape Professional 'agents/bodies/research' have to go through to get a 'license' to procure such substances for research..
never mind the 'Journals' [psych/medical/pharm/neuro] reluctance to seriously consider/publicise Positive reults re: 'Scheduled Substances'.

And on top of that: The whole debacle of a few 'open-minded' State Govs 'okaying' medical marijuana, while the Fed seems intent on prosecuting terminally ill, or terminally suffering folk [and those that are inolved in propagating/encouraging people to 're-look' at Marijuana]for smoking a bit of weed.

I'm all for the studies: 'official' or not.

BUT..being a psych professional..and seeing/experiencing just how 'clinical trials' are operated by Pharm companies, etc., from the inside out..and outside in...
And how 'jealously' they guard anything that doesnt reek of big-bucks and exploitation..well...

Hhhmmm.

But thanks for 'checking' me on my pessimism...
that may have been the result of my mood at the time..and annoyance re: some of the silliness being posted re: such an interesting/important 'thread'.

As Always:

Abiding.

The Dude.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by justin on Dec 22^nd, 2004, 12:11pm

wasn't sansert a derivative of LSD?

and i heard it worked well

but it's off the market now i think

there is no reason why this study shouldn't be done. nuff said, right. only good can come. if we don't try we don't fly...or something like that

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by BangYourHead on Dec 24^th, 2004, 9:40am

Hi All,

My first post , my ~5th cycle- week 3 and doing ok.

I did a brief read of this possible treatment theory.

I have to wonder if my past use of such illicit compounds helped or hurt. I am afraid I'll blow the bell curve of past use ( years ago) on any prior use survey.

Great Site !!

[smiley=twocents.gif]

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 29^th, 2004, 6:13pm

on 12/24/04 at 09:40:41, BangYourHead wrote:

I have to wonder if my past use of such illicit compounds helped or hurt. I am afraid I'll blow the bell curve of past use ( years ago) on any prior use survey.

Great Site !!

[smiley=twocents.gif]

Believe me, you won't blow the curve ;-)

This treatment has worked for people that used psilocybin and lsd in the past and also people that never touched them in the past.

There are also a great number of people here that never used these compounds in the past and suffer from clusters so it wouldn't appear to be a factor in whether or not you now have clusters.

This was actually "discovered" or "rediscovered" if you will, by someone using it in a recreational way, causing him to miss his scheduled cycle.

BobW

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by aceserve on Jan 8^th, 2005, 8:58pm

Have any of you cluster-headache sufferers used halucinogens before getting the headaches? I used LSD and magic mushrooms in college quite a bit, and the year after I quit using those drugs, in 1978, I had my first cycle of cluster headaches (of course, they were not diagnosed as such until many years later). I wonder if that is more than a coincidence.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Renee on Jan 8^th, 2005, 10:24pm

The benefit of the alternatives was found by a sufferer using for non-med purposes.

He'll probably be along later and follow up on this post.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Lebowski_Dude on Jan 10^th, 2005, 2:59pm

[quote author=aceserve

Have any of you cluster-headache sufferers used halucinogens before getting the headaches? I used LSD and magic mushrooms in college quite a bit, and the year after I quit using those drugs, in 1978, I had my first cycle of cluster headaches (of course, they were not diagnosed as such until many years later). I wonder if that is more than a coincidence.[/quote]

ACESERVE:

Good question..personally, I also have had years of experience re Hallucinogens [both for spiritual and professional reasons] and Ive never come across anything in the 'literature' [journals, etc.]/experience re: the use of such substances 'causing' someone to develop CH or other types of neurological disorders...

psychiatric issues: Yes [IF one already has a predisposition..genetic, etc., towards psychiatric problems, or persons who have very rigid 'ego' structures].

That DOESNT mean yer question is without merit..but I had Migraines and 'atypical' CH [undiagnosed at the time but meeting most of the criteria for a firm diagnosis, atypical or not] before I ever experimented with psychotropics..and did find that I would have 'spells' lasting months [after a subtherapeutic and/or full 'dose'] where I DIDNT have headaches.

Does anyone in your 'family' [distant or not] have a history of CH or other forms of headaches?

thats one issue [genetic] that I havent come across [yet] in the archives/message boards..how many people out there:

A. Have family members with CH, or other neuro disorders.
AND
B. Anyone else feel/think/wonder that their 'experimentation' with such substances resulted in the 'appearance' of CH??

Migraines and CH run in my family..my father and both brothers suffered from both, though they all [fortunately for them] have been symptom free once they hit their late 20's.

And both brothers have also experimented with psychotropics [before and since then] without any 'return' of the Devils.

Thats my take on it...

Also: Ive found marijuana often helps with some of my headaches [as its a vasodialator]; though there is a chance of 'rebound' headaches [as with opiates, sometimes]..
Ive done the whole ergotamine based drugs, Oxygen, SSRIs/TCAs [antidepressants that have an 'off-market' use re Chronic Pain and/or headaches of all types..SSRIs and TCAs target [generally] the Serotonin 'system' [which Sansert and ergotamine based/derived drugs also target..just different receptor sites] etc, etc. with periods of where they worked intermittently...
but never 'lasted' as sure means of aborting a CH/etc..

Anyone else have input re this and/or ACESERVES' question?

Just a note: My 'case' is complicated with the problem of having Migraines, CH and neuro/facial myalgia pain from a head trauma [post my Migraine diagnosis]..
so Im not a 'pure' CH person/sufferer.

But I'm curious too re other CH folk's response to these questions/issues.

Keep Abiding.

the dude

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by CC2004 on Jan 10^th, 2005, 3:38pm

Personally I dont think there's a connection, some have begun getting these bastards at 12 years old. But many of us sure seem to have a bad-boy attitude and I had always said I wanted to try everything...
FWIW mine started at 17, I didnt do dope or tabs or powder (or drink much) until after that. I do remember thinking dope helped in cycle but knowing now that hits often gone in 20 mins, might have just been that.
BTW Im 44 now and havent done any of that since my 20s, love my wine though but completely intolerant of alcohol when in cycle.
Id love to see more stats on personality types or whatever it is that so many of us seem to have in common

PFDANs
CC

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by aceserve on Jan 11^th, 2005, 11:44am

[quote author=Lebowski_Dude link=board=general;num=1100886982;start=50#61 date=01/10/05 at 14:59:52]ACESERVE:

Does anyone in your 'family' [distant or not] have a history of CH or other forms of headaches?

No, I'm the only one in my family going back two gerations to have grappled with CH.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Renee on Jan 11^th, 2005, 7:31pm

I was hit with my first ch at the age of 21. I was raised very strictly, my father was a bishop in the church, and I had never done any drugs or alcohol prior to getting hit.

There is no one in my extended family that suffers from anything other than allergy related headaches, except me.

My case is complicated as well. I suffer from clusters, migraines and CSF headaches (from a sinus surgery to "fix" my undiagnosed clusters and the surgeon "slipped" and ran the instrument up thru my ethmoid bone, tore the dura lining covering my brain and went 1/4 inch into my brain). So now I have memory loss and memory issues as well as the headaches.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Jan 11^th, 2005, 7:48pm

that had to hurt :'(

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by aceserve on Jan 12^th, 2005, 10:23am

Renee,
I am so sorry! I am with you in support. Best,

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Flash on Jan 13^th, 2005, 7:36am

Don't visit the General Board much, spend my time on Medications, Treatments, and Therapies Board...

A couple of points having just read through this entire thread:

1) Yes LSD, ergotamine, and methysergide (Sansert) are related. In fact methysergide was sythesized from LSD. However LSD is afer more effective at treating CH than methysergide. I guess they threw the baby out with the bath water.

2) Yes sumatiptan (Imitrex) was derived from DMT (dimethyltriptamine). DMT is one of the uber hallucinogenics, very very scary stuff. So why did they choose something like this to base a headache treatment on? Ha - because DMT is naturally produced in our brains.

3) Whether this research ever leads to a prescription drug is almost irrelevant when we can grow our own quite easily and at negligible risk. The important thing is that this research will legitimise this as a treatment. That may not cause the law to change, but it would help a lot in court if someone with CH was ever hauled before one. Err yes your honour Harvard Medical School has PROVEN that magic mushrooms are effective at maintaining my remission, and since my other option is suicide...

4) I've got to laugh at the "My headaches only started after I took LSD at college" people. Jeeez. Listen... my headaches began before I took LSD at college. See rather than causing your CH the chances are if anything that the LSD probably delayed the onset of them while you were taking it.

My CH started at 16. I didn't take LSD till I was 22. Had I taken LSD between 15 and 22 then my headaches probably wouldn't have started till I was 23. See where I'm coming from?

My grandmother had CH, and believe me she didn't even know that LSD existed!!!!

Gazillions of people have taken LSD, and the only ones with CH are the ones that have CH, and would have developed CH anyway. So yes it IS a coincidence.

On the same subject isn't it funny how people assume that something like LSD may be to blame purely based on it's profound effects. I've also eaten Heinz Ketchup, and while most people that eat Heniz Ketchup do not go on to develop CH a few people that eat Heinz Ketchup do get CH... WOAH is this a coincidence??? Errr DOH yes!

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 14^th, 2005, 2:00am

UPDATE

Dr. Sewell is getting near the completion and submission of the initial paper, so if you've been planning on getting him your records for inclusion, please do so soon. You may want to write Andrew and let him know its still on the way and see if he has a deadline. Thanks very much to everyone that has already done so.

Please continue to complete our surveys if you haven't yet done them all. The information collected has already been very helpful and will continue to be used in several ways to help find better treatments and help explain what cluster headaches really are, to the medical community.

If you have already used the psilocybin/lsd treatment:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/survey/mushrooms_survey_headaches.shtml

http://www.clusterbusters.com/phpsurveyor/index.php?sid=4

The following survey asks a few additional questions and also contains a specific consent question that must be completed to allow additional information gathering between yourself and Dr. Sewell, if you choose to do so.

http://www.clusterbusters.com/phpsurveyor/index.php?sid=7

The following survey is for all cluster sufferers, whether or not you've tried the treatment:

Quality of Life, part 1
http://www.clusterbusters.com/phpsurveyor/index.php?sid=5

Quality of Life part 2
http://www.clusterbusters.com/phpsurveyor/index.php?sid=6

Our case number list is up to 183. We've come quite a way. If you aren't sure about your case number, or if you have one, let me know.

Rick Doblin of MAPS has mentioned that he expects an article to appear in Psychology Today that will be mentioning the Cluster headache study. So, keep your eyes open.

Dr. Sewell recently gave a talk at MIT, on cluster headaches, their various treatments, the case histories he is gathering, and the proposed research into LSD and psilocybin.

We've also been making some changes and additions to the website over the last month or so, so when you've got nothing to do, feel free to check it out, including the FAQ page.
http://www.clusterbusters.com/

In addition, we have added something for people that make a donation to the research fund. (model not included ;;D )

http://www.clusterbusters.com/necklace.htm

For those of you that have already made donations (or will in the future) to MAPS directly, thank you and please send me an email letting me know you're mailing address (even if I have it already, so I can start a separate file) so I can get them out to you.

Thanks everyone, very much
BobW

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by rumplestiltskin on Feb 14^th, 2005, 2:54am

What would you tell a friend that feels the legal risks are far too great....who would not even ask this question...due to the fear of getting on "their list"

wage peace
den

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 14^th, 2005, 9:54am

on 02/14/05 at 02:54:04, rumplestiltskin wrote:

What would you tell a friend that feels the legal risks are far too great....who would not even ask this question...due to the fear of getting on "their list"

wage peace
den

There are some options.

1. travel out of the country to where they are legal. Some go to the islands. They are available in the UK etc.
He/She could do up to 3 spaced doses in 10 days. (2 doses in 5) Round trip airfare is probably cheaper than most people spend in a month on prescriptions.

2. Wait and apply for inclusion in the Harvard Study.

3. He/She could do some research on LSA and Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds. People have had similar success with LSA as it is very similar to both psilocybin and LSD in molecular structure. (AND completely legal in the US)
We just haven't had enough people try it yet to be sure of its efficacy. Haven't heard anyone say it didn't work as well though.

4. If the know anyone in college...they could always ask for some help. They are growing under a bed in almost every dorm building.

5. I understand the concerns, although no one has ever been arrested for being on a list. Asking questions (about anything) is not illegal.
He/She could always log on here at a local library and discuss the treatment.

Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by aceserve on Feb 16^th, 2005, 3:01pm

on 01/13/05 at 07:36:03, Flash wrote:

I've also eaten Heinz Ketchup, and while most people that eat Heniz Ketchup do not go on to develop CH a few people that eat Heinz Ketchup do get CH... WOAH is this a coincidence??? Errr DOH yes!

Yes, but taking ketchup does not bust up a CH cycle, whereas halucinogens reportedly do. Get where I'm coming from when I say there may be a link?

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Feb 24^th, 2005, 1:06am

Here are some key paragraphs from a long article in this coming Saturday's edition of New Scientist on the resurgence of interest in psychedelics.

Psychedelic medicine: Mind bending, health giving

* 26 February 2005
* From New Scientist Print Edition.
* John Horgan is a freelance science writer based in Garrison, New
York. His latest book, Rational Mysticism (Mariner Books), was
published in paperback last year

JOHN HALPERN clearly remembers what made him change his mind about
psychedelic drugs. It was the early 1990s and the young medical
student at a hospital in Brooklyn, New York, was getting frustrated
that he could not do more to help the alcoholics and addicts in his
care. He sounded off to an older psychiatrist, who mentioned that LSD
and related drugs had once been considered promising treatments for
addiction. "I was so fascinated that I did all this research," Halpern
recalls. "I was reading all these papers from the 60s and going, whoa,
wait a minute! How come nobody's talking about this?"

More than a decade later, Halpern is now an associate director of
substance abuse research at Harvard University's McLean Hospital and
is at the forefront of a revival of research into psychedelic
medicine. He recently received approval from the US Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) to give late-stage cancer patients the
psychedelic drug MDMA, also known as ecstasy. He is also laying the
groundwork for testing LSD as a treatment for dreaded super-migraines
known as cluster headaches.

And Halpern is not alone. Clinical trials of psychedelic drugs are
planned or under way at numerous centres around the world for
conditions ranging from anxiety to alcoholism. It may not be long
before doctors are legally prescribing hallucinogens for the first
time in decades. "There are medicines here that have been overlooked,
that are fundamentally valuable," says Halpern.

For now, however, Halpern isn't planning to pursue addiction therapy.
He is more interested in another medical use for LSD and psilocybin:
treating a debilitating condition known as cluster headaches. These
attacks appear to be caused by swelling of blood vessels in the brain
and are worse than migraines. Sufferers say the pain exceeds that of
passing a kidney stone or giving birth without anaesthetics. They
affect about 3 in every 1000 people sporadically, and 1 in 10,000
chronically. "There's a tremendous potential need for this," says
Halpern, who investigated the problem after being approached by a
patient group.

Many patients get little or no relief from painkillers, but some claim
that small doses of LSD or psilocybin can alleviate the headaches and
even prevent them from occurring. Halpern was intrigued; LSD is
chemically related to ergot, a naturally occurring compound that
constricts blood vessels, and the derivatives ergotamine and
methysergide are commonly prescribed for migraines.

Halpern and his Harvard colleague Andrew Sewell are now gathering
evidence to persuade licensing officials - and themselves - that LSD
and psilocybin merit a clinical trial. Sewell has gathered more than
60 testimonials from cluster headache sufferers who have treated
themselves with LSD or psilocybin.

Read the entire article here:
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg18524881.400
The rest is pretty interesting too.

BobW
(note: the number 60 refers to the number of people that had supplied medical records at the time of the interview)

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Feb 24^th, 2005, 9:17am

hmm.
Can you smell that?

I think that's the smell of hope in the air....
;;D

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by zrmulcahy on Mar 3^rd, 2005, 7:26pm

on 01/08/05 at 20:58:48, aceserve wrote:

My thought on this: perhaps your clusters actually started during college and were just kept in remission by the hallucinogens until you stopped using them. This would make it seem causal when in fact it is the opposite. Don't know if I'm correct but it makes sense to me.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by dougchunyo on Mar 4^th, 2005, 9:12am

OK, maybe I am a unique case. I figured out a couple of years back that my CH started when I was 5 or 6. I was taking guitar lessons and every day when I practiced, I got a headache - typical CH type. I didn't even get so much as an asprin to help the pain. This was the mid 60's so my Mom figured it was the guitar and that I was concentrating too hard. I stopped the guitar and the headaches went away. Most likely I stopped the guitar at or near the end of my cycle and the relief after stopping was coincidental. I don't remember much from that early in life EXCEPT my headaches. Even as I sit here typing I can taste the wood of the guitar as I would gnaw on it due to the pain.

That was way, WAY before I did any type of drugs/alcohol. Next time they came back I was around 12 or so - that time I got Sine-aid for them - no help. Still before drugs/alcohol. Then they came back when I was in High School, during drugs/alcohol. But I never did LSD only "naturals" - pot, hash, a little thai stick.

So for me at least, no way drugs or alcohol could possibly be construed as a cause.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by aceserve on Mar 6^th, 2005, 9:10pm

on 03/03/05 at 19:26:11, zrmulcahy wrote:

--
Thank you for your comment. Yes, after hearing these viewpoints, I am beginning to believe this may be the case.

I guess quitting using drugs was a mistake! :o

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by mikey-de on Mar 24^th, 2005, 10:40am

Lebowski_Dude wrote:

Quote:

Before the 'man' [whom-ever HE, or SHE is] clamped down on Hallucinogens and Marijuana..

That would be Harry J. Anslinger who was the first head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics which was formed in 1930 by the U.S. Treasury Department. This information was gleaned from a documentary called "the history of marijuana" narrated by Woody Harrelson. It's amazing how fear mongering, propoganda and lies can distort the perception of an entire population. It also goes on to discuss how Anslinger had scientists do studies to prove the harmful nature of marijuana as a drug that causes severe psychosis when smoked. Very much like the "Reefer Madness" 'documentary' which was also used as a propoganda tool way back then. The scientists returned with a huge report that basically showed what we all know now (those of us that tried or use(d) marijuana). It is basically harmless...lmaoooo...he was choked and destroyed the report and outlawed it anyways. As well as shutting down any other scientific study of it by making it illegal to possess in any form. (Kinda like the kid at the park that owns the ball and can't make a basket for his life so takes his ball home and leaves everyone standing around wondering what just happened).
Too bad for the valuable research that has been forgone for the sake of one man's crusade. Drug research should be left to the scientists...not the politicians.
BTW, it was a great movie and you can probably download it off the internet if you use Kazaa, Bearshare, Winmx, or any other peer-to-peer sharing program. Going to work on my new thread...looking forward to lots of reading for the next few weeks.
CYAH
Mikey-de
(in cycle and PF!!!)

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by jokrs2 on Mar 26^th, 2005, 1:40am

Hi all. I no someone who would like to participate in the psilocyben ......me :)
I have read some posts in here where individuals are concerned about big brother watching. You don't need to go to a library to log on so nobody knows who you are. Just download (if using windows): All-in-one-Secretmaker and confuse the hell out of the g-men. Be one IP address and look like a gazillion IP addresses simultaneously that change constantly. Go to www.secretmaker.com and read all about it. The best hackers couldn't crack it. Blessings and anonymity, Joe
P.S. ITS FREE!! ;;D Opus the Linux guy doesn't get it.
Window Envy? ::)

Title: ouch UK
Post by rumplestiltskin on May 17^th, 2005, 12:16am

I have heard that shrooms are not discussed at OUCH UK. ...and yet when i went to their supporter site at this addresshttp://www.clusterheadaches.org.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl there is a subject topic (at present empty) that says" harvard/maps clinical trial"...hmmm

maybe somebody with correct info about it ought to post something...the awakening of the Brits...Goadsbyland...

man I was reading some of their threads...they are so ...uh...proper...full of apologies and attempts to "not rock any boats"...much too civil fer my liking. A doc gets in yer way...ya read him the riot act and kick his ass out da door....gods...they aren't.

love
den
dad

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Missy_Donna on May 17^th, 2005, 10:46am

jokrs2.....just curious about the secretmaker site.

What IP address gets the download if all of these different addresses are confusing the issue?

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by nani on May 20^th, 2005, 4:02pm

From the OUCH UK Support Board:
Under the Harvard/MAPS clinical trial section:

Andrew Sewell MD
Guest

There is no trial
« on: May 18th, 2005, 3:26pm » Quote Modify Remove

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A reference to this link was forwarded to me by one of the OUCH-USA members, so I thought I would post to nip this rumor in the bud right away. There is no trial. There is currently nothing in the scientific literature to support the use of psilocybin in the treatment of cluster headaches--or headaches, period!

To rectify this, I have collected over fifty cases of people who have successfully used psilocybin to treat their attacks, which I am about to publish in the form of a "case series". I should find out in twelve weeks whether it's accepted for publication. If it is, it should see print in another three to six months. If not, I will have to start over again submitting it to a new journal.

A case series, however, is not scientific evidence; it's just a collection of stories. It does not support any kind of recommendation in favor of using psilocybin to treat cluster headaches; it merely raises the question. What it DOES support, however, is the idea of running a randomized controlled clinical trial to see if smoke really does mean fire in this case. The next logical step is to write a protocol for such a trial and submit it to the Institutional Review Board at Harvard for comment or approval.

Harvard has by no means agreed to run such a trial, however. We haven't even asked yet. The administration is aware of our plans, and has responded with what seems to be polite interest, which I find encouraging, given the blanket prohibition of the last forty years; moreover, another member of our research group (Dr. John Halpern) has received permission to test MDMA in a therapeutic trial with cancer patients, so controversial research such as this is definitely not out of the question. However, until the study's approved, it isn't, so don't believe any newspaper reports you read saying what Harvard will or will not do, because even Harvard doesn't know that yet.

But be patient! We are "on the job"!

Andrew Sewell MD
McLean Hospital/Harvard Medical School

I'm confused....
[smiley=huh.gif]

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Margi on May 20^th, 2005, 4:25pm

well, isn't THAT interesting....

hmm....makes ya wonder. Specifically wondering why the thousand dollar donation from OUCH now...?

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on May 20^th, 2005, 6:11pm

Please refer to the Subject title of this thread and make note of the word "pending"

Then click on the link in the first post in this thread where the word "proposed" is used.

A clinical trial can not begin until it is approved.

It can not be approved without many steps taking place first. The first steps have been taken, and paid for, but more will come.

thank you
Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Bob P on May 20^th, 2005, 6:18pm

Now back in October you said:

Quote:

The protocol design work (the hows, whys, whos, whats) is in process and in draft form at this point so I can not comment on too many details only because they are still being discussed. I will give more updates as different points are finalized.

Doc Sewell says in his post that the next step is a protocol as if nothing has been done.

?????

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on May 21^st, 2005, 2:30am

What I said back in October was, and is accurate.

If you want to see the draft, tough.

If Nani wants to see the draft, all she has to do is ask.

Have a good weekend
Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Bob P on May 21^st, 2005, 7:09am

Quote:

If you want to see the draft, tough.

Starting to sound like the ex OUCH President. Shroom side effect?

To elaborate on Margi's question, are donations currently being solicited to fund Dr. Sewell's paper or the actual trials? Both? What is the projected cost of each?

If for the actual trial, since Dr. Sewell makes it sound a ways off at best and iffy at worst, if the trial fails to materialize, are the donations refundable?

Thanks to Dr. Sewell for the accurate accounting of the proceedure and the current status of the project.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by nani on May 21^st, 2005, 8:23am

on 05/21/05 at 02:30:38, Pinkfloyd wrote:

If Nani wants to see the draft, all she has to do is ask.

Bobw

Thanks, Bob...not neccessary...I'm confused, not accusing. My confusion stems from not following this closely. :-[

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Opus on May 22^nd, 2005, 1:12am

on 03/26/05 at 01:40:59, jokrs2 wrote:

Just download (if using windows): All-in-one-Secretmaker and confuse the hell out of the g-men. Be one IP address and look like a gazillion IP addresses simultaneously that change constantly. Go to www.secretmaker.com and read all about it. The best hackers couldn't crack it. Blessings and anonymity, Joe
P.S. ITS FREE!! ;;D Opus the Linux guy doesn't get it.
Window Envy? ::)

And if you are using a real OS get the RPM or use APT-get both tor and privoxy. Set one of you browsers to local host:8118 ( better check). Then change that browser ID to something other than you have, and surf in anonymity. It if funny when Google comes up with a different language everytime. It seems they ignore the language part of you browser ID and goes by your IP address.

Oh yeah, they have ported tor and privoxy to Win32, who would have thought LOL.

Opus/Paul [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on May 30^th, 2005, 1:07pm

This article appeared in the Spring issue of the MAPS Bulletin.
We've progressed a bit since but thought you'd find it interesting.

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v15n1-html/cluster.html

Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Jonny on May 30^th, 2005, 1:34pm

Whos the pimp?....LOL ;;D

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v15n1-html/images/as.jpg

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by E-Double on May 30^th, 2005, 3:09pm

Sounds great Bob!!!!!!!!

Very nicely written article and will hopefully benefit us all!

Nice work!

Ex2

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Bob P on May 31^st, 2005, 7:02am

Hey! An answer to one of my questions! Thnaks Dr. Sewell.

Quote:

O.U.C.H. (Organization for the Understanding of Cluster Headaches) has already donated $1000 to help support the protocol design.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by ExPat_jac on Jul 14^th, 2005, 2:41am

on 11/25/04 at 09:48:13, tommyD wrote:

, but at least at first, this could follow the medical marijuana model, with grassroots networks supplying the substance or providing the information for sufferers to make their own.
-tommyD

and..look what the Fds did with that.......

If the establishment (god, I sound like an aging hippy...wait...I am) is this scared of MJ, do we *honestly* think they'll let us pop down to the local drug store and get schrooms? (no matter what form they be in)

As much as I'd like to hold out hope...this is one area where hope would not be worth hanging onto..

Sorry if I call it as I see it....

Talk to Peter McWilliams and his efforts to get MJ as a medical treatment..

Oh, wait...you can't.....he's dead now :(

(update)

Sorry guys…it’s just been one of those days where jumping off the building is starting to look like a good option…

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Ronny on Sep 24^th, 2005, 4:24pm

on 07/14/05 at 02:41:40, ExPat_jac wrote:

Dont jump!!!

Glad to see you back here Jack.

Sorry for the late response, havent been around as much as i would like to and sorry to abuse this thread, i always liked jack's replays... ;;D

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by BikerBob on Sep 24^th, 2005, 10:49pm

on 07/14/05 at 02:41:40, ExPat_jac wrote:

do we *honestly* think they'll let us pop down to the local drug store and get schrooms? (no matter what form they be in)

As much as I'd like to hold out hope...this is one area where hope would not be worth hanging onto..

From my message to the Clusterbusters 3 months ago...

I attended the Mind States VI Conference at the Palace of Fine Arts Theatre in San Francisco on May 27-29, 2005.

Rick Doblin, President of MAPS, gave a presentation titled “Psychedelic Psychotherapy Research and Psychedelic Culture”. He spoke for an hour about MAPS activities, sponsored research projects and his vision of government-approved Psychedelic Clinics in the future. Rick said Drs. Sewell and Halpern are making progress on the Harvard Cluster Headache LSD/psilocybin study. He said that most research studies are started by doctors or pharmaceutical companies that have a theory, then enlist patients to test their theory. The CH study is different. He said it was started by about 100 patients who found LSD and psilocybin to be an effective treatment for their medical condition. He talked about Clusterbusters.com starting this research and the contributions by the Clusterbusters to this research. The MDMA studies in the treatment of PTSD and anxiety in advanced cancer patients use MDMA as adjunct to psychotherapy. The CH study is different in that LSD and psilocybin have a direct pharmacological effect on a medical condition without psychotherapy. He said the target date for FDA approval of the Cluster Headache LSD/psilocybin study is January 2006, which will be Albert Hofmann's 100th birthday. This will be the first government-approved clinical research on LSD/psilocybin in 40 years and will open the door to other government-approved LSD/psilocybin research in the future. He doesn't foresee legalization of psychedelics like legalization of medical marijuana. He envisions thousands of government-approved Psychedelic Clinics with trained physicians treating a variety of psychological and medical conditions with psychedelics. You will never get mushrooms from a pharmacy; it will be administered in a controlled setting rather than prescribed. Rick received a standing ovation from the audience of a few hundred people.

The Mushroon Panel was also very informative. Charley Grob talked about the use of psilocybin in the psychiatric treatment of advanced-stage cancer patients with severe existential anxiety. He talked about the protocol development and preliminary findings of this approved research study. He said his research has recently revealed that psilocybin has a tremendous effect on glucose metabolism in the frontal lobe.

Sasha and Ann Shulgin's session was fascinating. They are an encyclopedia of organic chemistry and psychoactive drugs. Most of what they talked about I have never heard of before, like 2C-P and dragonflies. The next day I met Sasha in the vendor area. I briefly explained CH and psilocybin as a treatment. I said it is believed that the reason psilocybin works on CH is because of its effect on 5HT2A and 5HT1A receptors and that CH originates in the hypothalamus. I asked if he knew what effect psilocybin has on the hypothalamus. He said the person who would know the most about that is Franz Vollenweider. BobW has since contacted Franz.

There were numerous interesting sessions about mindstates, memory, Gordon Wasson's psilocybe discovery, psychedelic psychotherapy, psychedelic art and dance, EEG research on psychoactive drugs and harm reduction.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5db10b3127cce91bcf4609f5d00000026108AcuGThs3bt_

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5db10b3127cce91bcf4611e6c00000026108AcuGThs3bt_

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5db10b3127cce91bcf46e9f5300000026108AcuGThs3bt_

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b5db10b3127cce91bcf46a9f5700000035108AcuGThs3bt_

BB ;)

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Jonny on Oct 1^st, 2005, 9:59am

::) ;;D ;) :-*

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Sean_C on Oct 1^st, 2005, 11:40am

Only reason I posted is because I want my name to show on the General Posts Main Page for the next six months not yours LOL ;;D

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Jonny on Oct 1^st, 2005, 1:53pm

on 10/01/05 at 11:40:24, Sean_C wrote:

Only reason I posted is because I want my name to show on the General Posts Main Page for the next six months not yours LOL ;;D

Fag! ;;D

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by unsolved1 on Oct 1^st, 2005, 3:17pm

I recieved an email from Dr. Sewell on 9/23/05
asking additional information. I would post it but it says that that is strictly prohibited (?)
Did anyone else recieve one?

UNsolved

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Oct 3^rd, 2005, 3:23pm

I received one regarding previous usage....
;;D

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by nani on Oct 3^rd, 2005, 11:46pm

I got one today that was auto-generated from when I filled out the Quality of Life surveys last year. I received a follow up one from Dr Sewell because we've been in touch about my current treatment. It looks like he's gathering info on other alternatives and silent attacks.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Karla on Oct 4^th, 2005, 4:29pm

I agree on the alternatives and silent attack. Something I wouldn't have thought to look into.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by BlueMeanie on Oct 4^th, 2005, 7:37pm

From the questions that where asked, it was likey they are trying to correlate alternatives with silent attacks. Unfortunately I wasn't much help, as I have never had a silent attack. :o

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 6^th, 2005, 12:37am

on 10/01/05 at 15:17:16, unsolved1 wrote:

I would post it but it says that that is strictly prohibited (?)

There are some very important reasons for this. Thank you for not posting the letter/questionaire.

A couple other notes:
1. Although nothing of substance has been posted in this thread for a long time, a great deal of work on this project continues.
2. Clusterbusters has been collecting data on the subject mentioned for over two years. I'm sure we will be releasing some very interesting information, when some conclusions can be made, hopefully in the near future.
3. Thanks to everyone that continues to respond and participate.

Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Gator on Oct 8^th, 2005, 12:13am

Received and replied to one from Dr. Sewell.

BobW, the work y'all are doing to collect info is definitely appreciated. We can only hope that it is rewarded with full blown clinical trials at Hardvard someday soon.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 8^th, 2005, 2:45pm

Thanks Gator.
I expect the next 12 months to be very exciting ;;D

Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Beastfodder on Nov 3^rd, 2005, 7:32am

110% behind this - it's great news and brilliant for all concerned in taking this to heart of the medical establishment.

It's the one constructive way we can all get this taken seriously.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Flash on Nov 3^rd, 2005, 6:19pm

The silent attacks / episodes may be important because there do not appear to be any references to them until the hallucinogenics came into play.

On the clusterbusters private forum we see lots and lots of posts on silent attacks and episodes, a phenomenon that we rarely see reported on these forums, unless it's in reference to the Clusterbusters treatment.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by BlueMeanie on Nov 3^rd, 2005, 7:21pm

on 11/03/05 at 18:19:57, Flash wrote:

On the clusterbusters private forum we see lots and lots of posts on silent attacks and episodes, a phenomenon that we rarely see reported on these forums, unless it's in reference to the Clusterbusters treatment.

I guess that's why I've not had silent attacks. Hopefully, thanks to Flash/Pink and the rest, I will one day have attacks with no pain. Or better yet, no cycles at all..... still waiting in the wind.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Beastfodder on Nov 7^th, 2005, 6:49am

Agree with Pink - first silent attack was after my first very tentative dose of mushrooms last year.

Am fully on board and emailing Andrew Sewell - this is very close to my heart now.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Margi on Nov 7^th, 2005, 4:10pm

I've also had email from Dr. Sewell within the last week about Mike's silent attacks since his psilocybin use. Nice to see a doc still so interested in digging.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Chillrmn1 on Nov 7^th, 2005, 4:19pm

on 11/07/05 at 06:49:01, Beastfodder wrote:

Agree with Pink - first silent attack was after my first very tentative dose of mushrooms last year.

Same story here.......my first silent attack was after dosing with LSA.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Bob P on Nov 7^th, 2005, 4:26pm

Quote:

ST. PAUL, MN -- August 8, 2000 -- You can suffer from cluster headache without the head pain, according to a case report in the August 7 issue of Neurology, the scientific journal of the American Academy of Neurology.

The case report follows a 22-year-old man who was experiencing the neurologic symptoms of cluster headache including nasal stuffiness, a droopy eyelid, and contraction of the pupil in his left eye -- without the head pain normally associated with the condition.

This is the first case reported showing evidence that these symptoms may be initial symptoms and not a response to the pain, as experts have believed.

"This report may guide future cluster headache research in another direction, away from viewing these symptoms as a reflex reaction to the pain," said neurologist Rolf Salvesen, MD, PhD, author of the case report and associate professor at the University of Tromsø in Norway.

The man reported that these symptoms occurred every day for a few weeks with one to three attacks a day for one and two hours. After six weeks, the attacks stopped.

Six years later, he returned with his previous symptoms and severe pain in the area around his left eye that lasted for about 90 minutes about twice a day. He was treated with sumatriptan, a drug used to alleviate cluster headache pain, and within 30 minutes the pain was gone. After six weeks the pain was gone and so were most of his other symptoms.

"It's suggested by experts in cluster headache that the other symptoms experienced by people with cluster headache are a reflex response to the head pain," said Dr. Salvesen. "This report is evidence that a person can have other symptoms of cluster headache without the pain, suggesting these symptoms are primary symptoms."

Cluster headache is characterized by severe pain and several other neurologic symptoms, including tearing and redness of the eye, contraction of the pupil, stuffy nose and drooping eyelid. About one in every 1,000 people suffer from cluster headache and the majority of sufferers are men.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by dannyboy on Nov 11^th, 2005, 8:01am

Hey Boob! Hows the Hog Man?!! Glad to see there still someone keeing law and order around here while I'm away for long periods sunning myself on my yaught in the Carribean

No ways,,,, Pinki and Flash .... still trucking!!

I was going to organise a study once but I was too useless and no one here was prepared to pay me my 100 000 000$ upfront

And there I thought that the droopy runny eye, stuffy nose etc with out the pain was called Horton's Syndrome. Not that giving it a name would shed any light... just shows you how much I know!

There's a neuro at Harvard called Speirings, he's flippen fantastic and eager for new approaches. He's actually published that the IHS criteria are a waste of time and money and a hinderence to medical progress. I'm sure you've got it all sussed but I just thought I'd mention

Big Up!

X
Danny

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Nov 11^th, 2005, 9:15am

on 11/11/05 at 08:01:40, dannyboy wrote:

And there I thought that the droopy runny eye, stuffy nose etc with out the pain was called Horton's Syndrome. Not that giving it a name would shed any light... just shows you how much I know!

"Horton's Syndrome, doctors say, causes the most intense pain a human being can endure"

http://www.focalpress.com/companions/0240804155/headache/head1.htm

(cool pic on that one)

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by clarence on Nov 15^th, 2005, 4:37pm

Forgive my ignorance...

Is Horton's Syndrome equivalent to Cluster Headache? Are they different names for the same condition?

Casey

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Beastfodder on Dec 6^th, 2005, 6:12am

Apparently Hortons Syndrome, cluster headaches, migrainous neuralgia, suicide migraines, erythroprosopalgia, Raeder's syndrome, spenopalatine neuralgia, ciliary neuralgia, vidian neuralgia, and histamine cephalalgia are all the same thing.

A rose by any other name?

Cool pix on the site by Sarak Proll tho' making things far easier to understand than any of the above.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by BlueMeanie on Dec 21^st, 2005, 9:52pm

Well, it's been over a year since this thread began. Just wondering if there is any new news to report on any possibility of an actual psilocybin trail in the near future. I just sent out my med records, but I think that is for the Kudzu or some other trial comming up.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by carriefu on Jan 24^th, 2006, 5:47pm

im researching all alternative means at this point, im leaning toward anything not out there all ready....

that may be our only hope for a cure

after all why shouldnt we be allowed a cure also

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 1^st, 2006, 1:00am

Thought I'd paste this on this thread too since it's pinned and the other will soon drop off the radar screen. Sorry DJ. If it's too much, let me know and I'll pull the post off the other thread on the meds page.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/psiloscribe/NHF_Syllabus_cover1.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/psiloscribe/NHF_Syllabus1.jpg

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Sandy_C on Mar 1^st, 2006, 2:35pm

The results of these studies are great. Shows that some of the alternative methods of treadint CH actually work, which we know they do. At least now, there is some official recognition of that fact.

Thanks for posting

Sandy

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by ABarham on Mar 7^th, 2006, 3:49pm

A purely hypothetical question. If shrooms were available to the general public, and someone suffered from CH and wanted to give this a try, does anyone know what the trial dosage might be?

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by nani on Mar 7^th, 2006, 4:09pm

Hypothetically speaking, that person should visit www.clusterbusters.com and read the mushroom FAQs.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by LeeS on Mar 14^th, 2006, 3:47am

Clusterbusters have just received word that Dr Sewell's paper "Response of Cluster Headache to LSD and Psilocybin" has been accepted for publication in NEUROLOGY magazine. No publication date has yet been set.

Hopefully the first of many great milestones.

-Lee

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 14^th, 2006, 1:34pm

on 03/14/06 at 03:47:35, LeeS wrote:

Hopefully the first of many great milestones.
-Lee

Thank you Lee,
Yes, the fact that it was accepted by Neurology means that both the editors and the peer reviewers—who represent, basically, the scientific consensus in neurology—felt that it was something that it is worth every single neurologist knowing about. Which they will, once it appears in print.

A couple points of interest.
The reviewers are not only experts int he field of Neurology, but ones that are involved in the treatment and research of cluster headaches.
If the experts feel this subject deserves further research & open discussion, then the sufferers should surely support these issues.

When the article, abstract and pdf's are available, every sufferer will have something they can easily bring to their doctors and discuss the treatment.

This is a major step in the process of research into the use of psychedelics as a treatment. Where this research leads, no one knows but one thing is clear. The research has already helped identify some of the mechanisms involved in clusters and has already added important bricks in the yellow brick road to "effective" and safe treatments in the future.

The fact that major contributions to this project have been made by sufferers themselves, is an incredible feat.

Thanks to everyone that has taken part in every way, whether large or small contributions, we wouldn't be at the point we are, without them. From Tommyd's painstaking data collection to Mast's survey and web work, dozens of people have given thousands of hours of work and thousands of dollars in donations to this project. Thanks to everyone that sent in their medical records and all those that have been willing to publically post their results. The list goes on. You all know who you are!!

Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by ABarham on Mar 15^th, 2006, 9:31am

I don't know if this will be of any help, but I was a lobbyist and Legislative Aide. If we ever get to the point that politics are involved, let me know what I can do. Or any other time I can be of assistance please call on me.

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by Pinkfloyd on Mar 15^th, 2006, 6:33pm

on 03/15/06 at 09:31:16, ABarham wrote:

If we ever get to the point that politics are involved, let me know what I can do.

Thank you.
If there is one thing that seems to be involved at every turn, it's politics. :-X
I'll send an IM with some info.

thanks again
Bobw

Title: Re: The Pending Psilocybin Study @ Harvard Medical
Post by vig on Mar 17^th, 2006, 10:53am

HUGE!

There's light at the end of the tunnel!

thanks to all