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Title: Recurrance Post by plazticsoul on Jul 23rd, 2004, 8:25pm I don't know if this is a silly question or not, since most sufferers here probably have been battling off and on for a looooong time, but I was curious.. are the odds really slim for someone to have a period of CH and not ever have them recur again? Or is pretty much a guarantee that at some point, the clusters will come back? |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by Tim_Z on Jul 23rd, 2004, 9:01pm I'm no expert but in my case I thought they were gone before and the next thing you know BANG they're back. My cycles are usually 4 years apart. It seems each new cycle lasts longer and is more painful. Hope you're the lucky one but I'd bet they'll be back. Stick around, there's lots of stuff here. Tim |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by Superpain on Jul 24th, 2004, 5:27am They will come back... :( >:( |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by don on Jul 24th, 2004, 9:19am Quote:
Theres only one guarantee to clusters ending forever. It's the same guarantee you got the day you were born. You just gotta wait. |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by plazticsoul on Jul 24th, 2004, 11:06am Then, is a "trigger" just a myth or is it fair to call it an "agitator" instead? I mean, is something likely to CAUSE these things or just provoke them? |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ShannonJ on Jul 24th, 2004, 1:44pm [b][/b]We would all like to think that they would end and never come back but it seems very unlikely!! I've only had thre episodes and they come every 2 years and every time they seem to get worse. I hope for you that they never come back but if they do you will have alot of support and advice from everyone on here.. Good luck to you!!! :-) Shannon |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by plazticsoul on Jul 24th, 2004, 2:18pm How long have the periods lasted for you guys? I have had very few instances without pain in the last 3 months. Of course I get PF parts of each day but they are so short-lived that they often go by unnoticed :-[. I am hoping this will end soon so I can get my life back (at least for a while). What's really ironic is if you were to make a chart of productivity and happiness out of each year of my life, this year would have ranked both the highest AND the lowest. I was really going somewhere before this mess started happening :-/ LOL... maybe that is my "trigger".. maybe I'm not meant to be too happy [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by Giovanni on Jul 25th, 2004, 5:54pm The "periods" or cycles are predictable with some people and others not. Some people have random cycles of varying lengths. Some have remission that last several years only to return again. The cycles can change over time to include new start times and patterns. Fall and spring appears to be a popular time, but other times are common as well. My worst cycle ever was 2002, 2003 with 5.5 months and 4.5 months. Glaxo's stock rose significantly during this time. LOL I was told by the doc that this was a lifetime Syndrome, but would probably get better as I got older......not. Mine got worse and I believe that I was headed towards chronic cluster headaches. My best year so far has been since June 14, 2003. With the exception of one break through CH in October and 1/2 dozen shadows, I've been pain free because of the alternative treatment. www.clusterbusters.com Best of luck to you, John |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by Kris_in_SJ on Jul 25th, 2004, 8:56pm So sorry you're suffering right now. I could still kick (shoot, maybe?) the neurologist who diagnosed me 9 years ago and never bothered to tell me that CHA's were cyclical and would come back to haunt me and torture me again. Yes - they will be back. If you're lucky, maybe only every 3-4 years, like me. My 3 cycles so far always start late spring, early summer, and with Prednisone and Verapamil, last about 5-6 weeks. My first cycle, which went undiagnosed until near the end, lasted about 3 months. For many people, a cycle is often triggered by the time of year. While you are in cycle, a trigger is something that can bring on a full-blown HA (alcohol for example). Keep reading, keep learning, and find the best thing that works for you. Hugs, Kris |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by Bob_Johnson on Jul 25th, 2004, 9:53pm Some folks report cycles with clock work regularity; others have cycles which are random. When I look at my records covering several years, I see several months to two-years between cycles. Not worth paying attention to the whole issue. One thing about clusters--you can't miss them. "Triggers" refer to food or chemicals, etc. which lead to an attack during the period (cycle) when we are vulnerable. Alcohol is a common trigger during a cycle but most of us can use it when the cycle is over. |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by plazticsoul on Jul 25th, 2004, 10:19pm on 07/25/04 at 20:56:19, Kris_in_SJ wrote:
See and that's me. I went the first 2 months before learning about CH and starting treatment with 480mg verapamil and prednisone. I'm off the prednisone and starting to find some relief at 45mg of topamax, although I could probably stand to go a bit higher. With a little luck, cycle should be ending soon and hopefully next cycle will be shorter if I can fight it earlier on. Are triggers generally believed to make a cycle last LONGER or just make a the cycle more difficult to tolerate? |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by stevegeebe on Jul 25th, 2004, 11:02pm First twenty-four years, every year. The past four years they have hit me ever other year. Last year had a six month cycle. This year...so far so good. When in cycle, drinking a beer will bring on (trigger) a headache in minutes. I don't know who would tempt a bout knowing the painful result. At least not me. So I can't answer you question about triggers and duration. If you got 'em you're lucky if they suddenly stop forever. At least that's what I hear. Sometimes it happens. Only thing I've read that may short circut a pending cycle are schrooms. Good luck and Go Tigers. Steve G |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by marfanoidus on Jul 26th, 2004, 1:04pm Cool thread. I believe to some extent, in my case, that my CH cycles are brought on food allergies. Reason being: episode 1 stopped dead when I stopped eating peanut butter; episode 2 stopped dead when I stopped eating hot dogs and bologna. Could there be similarities for other CHeads? Sure, there could be. Could it have simply been pure, unadulterated coincidence that when I stopped eating those foods the CHs just stopped? Sure, it could be. My current episode is different than the previous 2 though: as I was weaning off Effexor (depression med) I began to wean onto my CH cycle. Seems almost certain the Effexor was masking my cycle. As yet, two months now, I've had no luck figuring out what is causing my cycle. And, as has been said, alcohol will trigger a CH almost before your first swallow hits your stomach - it is definitely a 'trigger' when in-cycle. Another thing, I hate being a man and talking about being on a 'cycle'. :-/ However, my current neuro, who I personally think is an angel in disguise (no, really. No, I mean it, seriously) and who really knows her stuff said that CH is in your genes, rooted deep in our hypothalamuseseses. According to her, its programmed in us like our height and skin color are as to when we will have the cycles, how frequent the CHs will be and how severe. And another thing - I think I know why the pain is located in the head, behind the eye: if it was anywhere else, we would cut off the body part [smiley=laugh.gif]. Good luck to you, and here's my parting advice on your original question of whether they go away for good: prepare for the worst, don't live in the fantasies proffered by unfounded hopes - assume they will come back. Hey if you're wrong, whoohoo! If you're right, it won't be too shocking. Shadows are lurking, gotta go |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by BobG on Jul 28th, 2004, 2:04pm At this point in time I am half way throught my years of clusters. I am 57 years old now. My clusters started 30 years ago at age 27. They will end in 30 years at age 87. How do I know that. Because I have set up my retirement, 401k and investments to be completely drained on February 1, 2034. Then I die. ::) |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by floridian on Jul 28th, 2004, 2:21pm on 07/24/04 at 11:06:59, plazticsoul wrote:
Triggers are real. If you have a trigger, it WILL lead to a cluster in short order. For many, the trigger is only activated during a cycle. Alcohol is recognized as a common (but not universal) trigger - for maybe 80-90% of us, drinking has painful effects during part of the year. Aggravators or agitators are less understood - if they exist. I personally believe that the reason that people can go 2, 3 or more years without a cycle is related to aggravators - things (maybe diet, immune condition, medicines, environmental chemicals, etc) that push our metabolism to the edge, so to speak. Or anti-aggravators that balance our metabolism and keep the beast at bay. But the aggravator idea is not proven - we just don't know yet. |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by CJohnson on Jul 28th, 2004, 3:07pm I like to think of CH like a combination lock, in the respect that there are a number of conditions which must be set to a certain value for an attack to occur. I believe some of these conditions are genetically determined, and are constant, or changed at a fixed rate regardless of circumstances, and some can change due to circumstances. When everything lines up just right - bam. PFDANs -Curtis |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by UN_SOLVED on Jul 29th, 2004, 12:16am Triggers ? Can you also 'trigger' yourself into chronicness ? 4 year cycle ... still going on ! Unsolved |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ex_pat_asia on Aug 1st, 2004, 10:59am Re: Triggers I'll venture some thoughts but these have only my personal experience behind them...not exactly what medical researchers base their conclusions on. In fact, the beauty of this thread is the ability to add to our empirical data. My first encounter with clusters occured after I had taken a sales job in a tech services comany. I was a 27 yr old go-getter. In those days it was not uncommon to have cocktails at lunch time when you were entertaining guests. I began to have attacks one to two hours after these lunches. It took a while to draw the conclusion that alcohol was involved. In those seminal days of cluster experience the doctor I saw didn't have a clue...said I was working too hard and I should learn to relax. I did that and, in fact, I have always been able to relax. Nevertheless that's how I discovered that relaxation could somehow end up in a headache of the "beast" kind. I began losing weekends to the damn things. It was five years later, after several periods of cluster headaches that lasted from two weeks to two months, and I still had not really seen the big picture yet. Then I finally saw a Dr. that knew something about cluster headache. After several questions he pulled out a copy of a fact sheet that nearly described me-- I could've been the poster boy. My med in those days was ergotamine...and that was it. But it worked and I was happy to at least know what I had. Alcohol and MSG were something that I could avoid pretty easily. I began to realize my headaches had a pattern favoring Spring & Fall. As my headaches grew in duration, frequency, and intensity so did the general knowledge about them which I tried to follow. I was an early beneficiary of sumatriptan (as the makers were of my money). In all that time the triggers remained to be primarily alcohol and MSG. Either was capable of triggering a headache so if I strayed and had a drink, or a restaurant snuck in some msg..or I ate a can of beans that had MSG, I could trigger a headache. But it wasn't always the case. Sometimes I could drink moderately with impunity. Then again, I have had several episodes of CH, during which I avoided those triggers conscientously ---and still had severe attacks. In my experience I have concluded that "triggers" can cause a one-off headache and are best avoided. I do not believe triggers cause episodes. I believe triggers are especially explosive when we are in an episode, and may even be the event that unveils a new episode coming on. No man...it is something else..something in our genetic code, body chemistry, lifestyle, karma, whatever. In the beginning we get pretty pre-occupied with the subject of triggers because it allows us to become proactive. We are regular detectives --- looking for clues to nail the bad guy. Thats cool...but I think we also need to focus on published research and especially on strategies. Now I am going to write something that may seem heresy to some folks here. I do not feel like my life has been awful, or anywhere close to it. There have been bad moments and everyone of my cluster attacks would count as at least one. Sometimes the circumstances of a cluster attack make it more negative then others...say in the midst of giving a speech, or in the midst of a business meeting, or attending to a friend who is even sicker than you, or just when you are taking a little time off to be with your son...these are tough things to give up to crawl into your "suffering retreat". But honestly, if you predispose yourself to the need to do just that, and learn to accept the temporary set backs, and fight the beast at every opportunity, your quality of life can be good, as I feel mine has. I have, like many who have written here, been very fortunate in all other health categories. I have few regrets and a life rich in rewards to look back on and, I believe, to look forward to. The beast has been an obstacle..but without obstacles..would we really be better off? So look for the triggers..for sure. Most of them are well recorded in the literature. Avoid them if you feel any twinges at all. Use them sparingly and carefully when you don't have twinges. Most of all, began to build your own set of data and take as active a role in your strategies as you can. Find a doctor that will encourage that instead of trying to squash it. And never forget you have a life that can be terrific, even with the beast lurking around. I am at a bad point in my current cycle. I really can't leave the house without an Oxygen tank and that is a real anchor. Today was a nasty one with multiple attacks, and I am about to go to bed which I actually dread during these damn things. Nightimes are often the worst time for me. But I am still happy to be here. - PFDAN to all [darn folks, I am too windy here...sorry about that...but I'll let it stand] |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ExPat_jac on Aug 2nd, 2004, 5:11am ex_pat_asia...do you have the other half of this amulet? Are we brothers? Damn boy...I could have written your last post :) plazticsoul...triggers.... I agree with asia boy (haha got to nick name you something old man)..... We first start looking for them...as a way to get a handle on the problem...as a way to sort of "be in control" I gave that up YEARS ago...there are known things that cause mine...alcohol, heat, glare...some easy to get away from (alcohol) some harder (heat).... At one time, my pain and headahs DEFINED my life....see, I am chronic....I started out with regular cycles..and as I got older, the cycles got shorter and the pain longer....now, I can generally count on a visit from the beast at least 5 or 6 times a day...most days these hang around a level 4 to 6....some days I spend most of my day banging my head aginst the wall and *trying* to act normal enough so I can keep my job....dealing with Kip 8's and 9's.... Somedays....the beast wins a round..... :'( and knocks me over with a Kip 9-10 and it's off to the emergency room I go..... Other days, it's just a background irritation...a littl shadow...Kp 2-3. Hell...I eat Kip 3's for breakfast, I have gotten to the point that ol beastie boy has to do WAY better than that to even get me to say "Hi" to him :) Can you say "it's a bitch" :) I will not lie to you...yes, there are times when I just want to give up...when it gets too damn much to handle.... Then, I get to spend a littl time playing with a little child...rubbing a furry little kitty cat..and come to realize that if the pain is what I have to put up with to have these momments, then so be it...so, I chain smoke like mad, pace the floor, bang my head, cruse, scream, pop what drug works today....and keep on truckin.... I've gotten pretty good at forgoing sleep...who ever said the body needs 6-8 hours a day never sufered these things...sleep is really the only think that does scare me...because I know if I do sleep, he'll be there to wake me....and boy, I hate waking to the beat of the beast's music.... So, most nights, I just don't sleep...I've learned ways of getting enough rest hanging on the handles of the metro on the way to work (and I can ALWAYS count of a meeting or two at work to give me the nappy time I need :) ) plazticsoul...from your picture, you look young... I started when I was 7-9 years old....into regular cycles by earily 20's...full tilt chronic by my mid to late 30's... But thats me....we are all different... But...one thing I can tell you, if you'd be willing to take the advice of a "burnt out, pill popping, freaky old man" (I've been called may things du to these headaches over my life). Hang in there dude....while it may hurt at times...life is one HELL of a trip!!!!!!!! I mean hell, just yesterday....I was eatting monkey brains!!!!! Now, I'd have missed that if I had chosen to give up (as at times I have ben tempted to do when the beast starts pounding 9's for days and days on end)!!!!! Now..who in there right mind would give up the chance to do that I ask you :) Hang around the board..there are some great people here...and they have helped me already, as I'm still a newbie here also.... They understand..... And thats rare to find. I love you all...thanks for letting me rant again! ExPat_Jac |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ex_pat_asia on Aug 2nd, 2004, 1:07pm on 08/02/04 at 05:11:31, ExPat_jac wrote:
As the plain spoken in Maine mainly say..."ayup"...which is why I am posting at 1:00 am. Almost afraid to hit the sack. on 08/02/04 at 05:11:31, ExPat_jac wrote:
Bad boy huh?...shit I must have that half amulet around here somewhere... at least you know that the "beast" cannot be revenge for bad behavior cuz he arrived before you were old enough to be really bad.. geez loueeze 7 yrs old ,,,now that ain't right. on 08/02/04 at 05:11:31, ExPat_jac wrote:
Oh yeah...hanging and riding is what I do well. on 08/02/04 at 05:11:31, ExPat_jac wrote:
Whiskey tango foxtrot is this Jac?...some kind of Darwinian revenge for your headmonkey? on 08/02/04 at 05:11:31, ExPat_jac wrote:
They must be a very patient bunch Jac cuz they let me do it too. Stayed up late last night watching "Jackie Brown" for the 3rd time. Stayed up tonight watching Tom Hanks in "The Terminal". Recommend both for non-pacing hours. "I shall take all the troubles of the past, all the disappointments, all the headaches, and I shall pack them in a bag and throw them in the East River. -Trygve Lie" |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by JJA on Aug 2nd, 2004, 2:57pm OK I'm late on the reply, but just wanted to add that I once read a paper on CH (sorry I forget the source, something from the 80's) that reported some people apparently only have one cycle. I also had someone tell me that their father had 1 cycle of CH which lasted several years and never returned(who knows if that person really had CH or not). I guess if your cycles are very far apart you may never see a second? I'm not so lucky...twice a year for 6-8 weeks each for about 10 years now. There is hope. Good luck Newbies. -Jesse |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ExPat_jac on Aug 2nd, 2004, 9:16pm >> some people apparently only have one cycle haha hell, they ain't CH suffers...there hobbiest :) In a way I guess you could say I've only had one cycle....it'ds just that it's now going on it's 38th year !!! All kidding aside...I guess it is possible...but I've never seen it, but then, I've never seen as large a collection of CH suffer's in one place ether..... Maybe others here have.... |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ExPat_jac on Aug 2nd, 2004, 9:27pm ex_pat_asian says.... >> some kind of Darwinian revenge for your headmonkey? I've got a trip planned to Kalimantan (Borneo) soon...figued I'd look up a native witch doctor, heck I've tried every other cure, why not give it a try! (but than again...these guys are head hunters...(really...no shit....) so, I hessitate. ) >> Bad boy huh?... wellll....(shepish grin) I wouldn't quite say "bad", I've always had a fairly strong moral compass...lets just say I've always been a bit left of center to most people and more open minded and leave it at that ;) >> Stayed up late last night watching "Jackie Brown" for the 3rd time GREAT flick! (I am a big Tarentino fan) See "Big Fish"....my boss lent it to me, I looked at it said "gezz...whats this, some sort of chick flick...put it aside, finally ran out of books to read and other things to watch and finally watched it.....glad I did...get a copy, you'll thank me later for it.... Hang in there asian boy :) we'll make it..one way or the other....yesterday was a nightmare for me...by far the worst day yet....toward the end all I could do was chant over and over "this headach will end too..they all do" People around me must have though I was mad..... hehehe little do they know.....I am :) ExPat_Jac |
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Title: q: Recurrance Post by ex_pat_asia on Aug 2nd, 2004, 10:18pm on 08/02/04 at 21:27:17, ExPat_jac wrote:
One of my favorite places -- it was even on my retirement spot maps at one time --quite possibly because those "headhunters" are far more congenial then the Chinese & Malay populations in K.L. Careful man...they have some ladies there that will give it back. Maybe they are trying to make up for past cultural inequities? on 08/02/04 at 21:27:17, ExPat_jac wrote:
Exactly how I would describe myself - - my motto is "don't hurt anyone along the way". on 08/02/04 at 21:27:17, ExPat_jac wrote:
I have all of tarantino's movies and tons more...cinema is real passion of mine -- you can tell because I called it cinema instead of movies ::)...but I did exactly the same thing that you did with "Big Fish"...I think because the cover art belied the content. When I finally did get to it I was thrilled with it. Superb flick. on 08/02/04 at 21:27:17, ExPat_jac wrote:
This I am damn sorry to read this morning. I just booked a PF night and am ecstatic. First one in some two and half months. Slept a very solid 5.5 hours, awoke refreshed, and regaining my naturally curly optimism. Not to bitch at ya too much but I am really anxious to hear you got the O and have started gulping it. Also have been wanting to tell you that Lithium, at the low levels prescribed for cluster, is very tolerable, one of its best features is its diminutive side affects. You may want to reconsider. Many studies point to lithium as a protocol of choice for chronics. I am going to keep knockin wood and holding my breath on this PF night. I have (so far this a.m.) zero shadowing. That itself is a breakthrough and I am even going to an outside meeting (away from my Oxy umbilical) which is something I have not been able to risk in the last four weeks. My wife told me a silver lining to that. When we closed August she said our cash flow took a big jump because I wasn't traveling. Apparently it is cheaper to stay home and gobble pills then it is to fly, dine, entertain, etc. - hehe - a rather dubious cost cutting measure yea? Get the oxy bro - get it as soon as you can and don't stop fighting it. PFDAN - a new tantra "I'm very brave generally, he went on in a low voice: only today I happen to have a headache." - Lewis Carroll |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ExPat_jac on Aug 4th, 2004, 1:06am >> "I'm very brave generally, he went on in a low voice: only today I happen to have a headache." - Lewis Carroll Intresting litarary side note.... Did you know that Lewis Carroll was a migrane suffer? Some even believe possible CH suffer. Some critics say that his work shows effects of his headaches.... (of course aside from the fact he was a real pervert) I'm not fighting the O2...it is just that where I am right now, it really isn't an option...I am moving from friends house to friends house...living out of suit cases (or rather backpack) and just don't have the ability to deal with an O2 tank at this point.... You understand...I do a *lot* of walking..the laptop is enough of a killer to drag around...I don't think in this heat I could eal with lugging a tank to boot...often I move from home to home...on foot.....such is life :) >> Also have been wanting to tell you that Lithium, at the low levels prescribed for cluster, is very tolerable, one of its best features is its diminutive side affects. You may want to reconsider. Many studies point to lithium as a protocol of choice for chronics. Well, after that I will look into it...see, most that I know that were using Lithium were pretty burnt out freaks...and I never knew if it was *them* or the Lithium...so I've always be wary.... >> Apparently it is cheaper to stay home and gobble pills then it is to fly, dine, entertain, etc. - hehe - a rather dubious cost cutting measure yea? Ahh..but it's only money right? I've found if I am careful I can live on 17,500 rupiah a day!!!!! (to you americans...thats just UNDER 2 dollar!!!) Thats food, transportation...the works! Talk about going native :) And understand folks...I am talking about eatting WELL!!! (if you wish to call eatting "bat" well! ;) ) >> "don't hurt anyone along the way". I'm sort of dutch in my additude that way...I will tollerate most anything...as long as no one is harmed..to each his own. I would never attempt to judge anothers actions...may I be given me the same respect... Talking about cinema...what did you think of Kill Bill (see, to me it's one movie, as QT wished it...not part one and part two)? Here is QT IMHO "teaching" cinema. It has it all...this is QT...with a budget :) Good luck on your continued PF day...I'll keep my fingers crossed for you...so far this day started rough (did not get to sleep till 6:30, in the office at 8:30...just shadows now...but I feel him creaping around my head looking for a weak spot.... I'll do the hot pepper thing for lunch and try and trick him so we'll just have to see.... Good luck brother! ExPat_Jac |
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Title: Re: Recurrance Post by ex_pat_asia on Aug 4th, 2004, 6:00am Dude you really are going native. Two bucks a day is incredible even for local food. But if you go with lithium it may blow your travel budget. Still, I think it is worth a try, as it has had success for chronics. It didn't do much for me when it was part of a cocktail prescribed by a headache specialist. I can honestly say, however, that it had no side effects. I could not even tell I was taking it. (Nor was I aware that I was drooling uncontrollably but WTF right?) All joking aside it was very unnoticeable. The verapamil I am taking, along with the betamethadone taper, has more sides than I have encountered before. It makes me feel sort of short of air and heavy in the chest. Cause for alarm by any measure if you didn't know you were on meds. Spoke to the doc and he is not concerned, and it looks like the sides are rather expected from what I have read. Also it is constipating but I can take care of that with psyllium with no problem. Regretably I am no longer able to claim PF. Today, for whatever reason, I started ghosting slightly. It could've been the heat. I spent a good deal of the morning in an empty factory with no air and lots of dust. After lunch it developed into the onset of a half hearted attack that was easily aborted with a few puffs of the oxy. This is all certainly better then a few days ago when I was getting 7 - 8 per day (& night) and was not able to abort all of them, -- especially those f**K*rs that come at night -- sleazy sneak shot attacks. Those damn things are zero to 60 in 6 seconds. It is like the business end of a hogged out hemi in your eye. Holy tomato batman I hate those bloody things. Funny thing is...to be honest, I can never tell if the headache woke me, or my awakening triggered the headache attack. I never wake up to full blown 7 - 9s. They seem to be more or less 1KIP when I wake up-- in the barely noticeable range -- but after I awaken they come charging on full bore. They ramp up much faster then the daytime variety. My recent success is pretty vanilla as far as prophylactic treatments are concerned. I am taking verapamil , 240MG 2X per day, and 3mg of betamethasone (half in the morning and half at night) tapering to 2MG in 4 days and continuing for four days, and then tapering to 1MG for 3 days after that. I am also taking 800 MGs of Magnesium Oxide a day. I'll stay with it of course. I have to play golf in a tourney in S'pore on Friday and hope to be up to it. *OFF TOPIC* I know quite a lot about Lewis Carrol, at one time was quite fascinated with him. There is a web site I have bookmarked that has some of his photgraphy including several pictures of the real Alice. It is here: http://www.people.virginia.edu/~bhs2u/carroll/dodgson.html So...bat and monkey brains huh? Damn man...go get a big mac at least. Looks like I am shadowing again, so guess I am ready for break. Cheers mate! lets stay tuned. Device Error (A)bort, (R)etry, (G)et an Imitrex? |
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