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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
        
(Message started by: Phil L on Nov 27^th, 2005, 10:48am)

Title: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by Phil L on Nov 27^th, 2005, 10:48am

This morning I dived into the medical info section on the column to the left. Came to a small section indicacting that during a cluster attack there is a moderate rise in seratonin levels.

If so, dose the taking of anti-depressants, which artificially increase seratonin, contribute to an attack?
Can long term anti-depressant use in fact start the cycle in the first place?

I've been taking Wellbutrin for depression and stress related issues long before my first clusterheadache. Is there a connection or is it all baloney?

Phil

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by Jasmyn on Nov 27^th, 2005, 12:29pm

Honestly, I have no clue Phil.

All I know is that many of us get prescribed sometimes some or other anti-depressant, which has no real effect on the start, frequency or severety of a cycle/hit.

This is just my experience as depression is very much a part of the CH game.

Jas

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by pattik on Nov 27^th, 2005, 1:24pm

Just to add to the confusion, some of us have tried herbals, like St. John's wort and 5HTP, which are supposed to be a more natural source of SSRI function. I tried the 5HTP a few years ago, and it made no difference in my cycle whatsoever.
I think Kudzu may be the best herbal method we have anecdotally seen so far. I'm no doctor, but it seems that prescription antidepressants ought to be more of a help to CH than a trigger. ::)

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by MJ on Nov 27^th, 2005, 11:23pm

I have also been researching the serotonin issue for a while.

I dont fully understand how serotonin works but I dug up a couple of interesting articles.

Maybe some of the more curious minds can explain better.

The first link involves a deficiency. I found the last 3 paragraph interesting as well. Tinnitus is ringing in ear I think but Serotonin applies to us. As well as melotanin.
If you substitute the word tinnitus with CH it makes some sense

http://www.tinnitusformula.com/infocenter/articles/treatments/trypto.aspx

The second link requires some deciphering but involves excess serotonin or toxicity.

http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2786.htm.

I was trying to understand why I sometimes have such extreme exhaustion just before and following an attack.
Lo and behold this also involves serotonin. But thats another story.

MJ

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by Phil L on Nov 27^th, 2005, 11:49pm

Thanks, MJ

Fascinating links and I appreciate your input. Maybe there's something to all of this. In reading the list of serotonin overdose indicators, one sticks out. Think I'll have a chat with my Doc and perhaps lower my dosage and see what happens.

Phil

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by jon019 on Nov 28^th, 2005, 12:57am

MJ,

Many thanks for the fascinating article links re serotonin. Which serve to reinforce my gratitude and fortune in finding ch.com.

Tinnitus? Yup. Depression? Sometimes, yup. Fatigue, exhaustion, anxiety, lack of concentration, yup, yup, yup, and yup.

Because of Ch or CH because of. No idea. But I think I'll try a little extra turkey, the turkeys in the FDA can't regulate that.

Regards

Jon

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by floridian on Nov 28^th, 2005, 8:18am

I've done some digging on SSRIs and CH. No good evidence that they help most people.

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=SSRIs

Inositol may also be of interest:

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Inositol

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by MJ on Nov 30^th, 2005, 9:23am

Can anyone explain in laymans term how or what serotinin is and what it does??
On a normal everyday basis.

The links above help to explain the possible effects but I still cant pin down excactly what it is and why it is there. Maybe its just all the abbreviations on the net that keep me confused.

MJ

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by thomas on Nov 30^th, 2005, 9:55am

on 11/30/05 at 09:23:36, MJ wrote:

Can anyone explain in laymans term how or what serotinin is and what it does??
On a normal everyday basis.

It makes you feel "good" and after dark it breaks down into melatonin and makes you feel "sleepy".

The links above help to explain the possible effects but I still cant pin down excactly what it is and why it is there. Maybe its just all the abbreviations on the net that keep me confused.

MJ

And to address the original poster, I use an SSRI as part of my preventive coctail, have been using the same regimin for 3 years now and have had the 3 shortest, least painful cycles I have ever had.
Below is my treatment

My CH treatment

20min HOT steamy shower 1 hour before bed
3-6 mg of melatonin and 2-6 mg of time-release melatonin afterwards
Go to bed
Wake up in the morning; take 250 mg of magnesium and 20 mg of fluoxetine (prozac)
Abort with zomig and O2 at 15 LPM as needed.

Also had some good results from alternative methods, but nothing too concrete to rave about yet.

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by Phil L on Nov 30^th, 2005, 11:07pm

Thanks Thomas!

Title: Re: Seratonin anti-depressants and CH
Post by Bob P on Dec 1^st, 2005, 10:10am

Phil,

It gets a little complicated. It's not just serotonin. There are many subtypes of serotonin, each doing different things. They are all neurotransmitters. When a nerve wants to send a signal to the brain or other places it sends an electrical signal along it's length. When the signal gets to the end of the neuron it signals certain chemicals, neurotransmitters, to be released from the end of the nerve. They travel the gap between the nerves, attach to specific receptor sites on the next nerve and signal it to continue the signal.

Go here http://www.ouch-us.org/chgeneral/seratonin.htm and read the article on "Nurotransmitters of the 90's"