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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Coincidence or Connection?
        
(Message started by: JoeKen on Oct 18^th, 2005, 3:36am)

Title: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by JoeKen on Oct 18^th, 2005, 3:36am

:)
Hi,
I offer the following experience for consideration and wonder if anyone else has noticed anything similar. About 6 weeks ago, whilst in the middle of the longest Episode of CH that I have ever had, (started in March and still going strong in September), my GP prescribed me Flucloxacillin tabs for any infected big toe, (gardening accident). Within a week these were changed to Erithromycin tabs because they gave me a chronic and escalating headache, (not CH), and upset my already 'dodgy' stomach. From the first day of taking the Flucloxacillin my CH episode virtually stopped and did not reappear when this was changed to Erithromycin. I completed the course of Erithromycin more than a week ago and, so far, the CH episode has not started again. The CH has not completely stopped but from the first day of taking the antibiotics I have had 2 very mild 'shadows, (Kip 1 or 2), and 1 Kip 3 or 4.
It may be worthwhile mentioning in this context that my normal CH episode pattern is 2 episodes each year, starting around March and October, each lasting for a couple of months or so. This being the case I would normally expect the CH to kick in again any time now, but it has not happened so far.
I have to admit that the most likely explanation is coincidence, but I wonder if anyone else has any similar or contrary experience - I cannot be the only CH sufferer that has taken similar antibiotics whist in cycle.
Nil illegitimum carborundum.
JoeKen.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by LeLimey on Oct 18^th, 2005, 3:41am

Hi Joe,
I don't know if there is anything in it or not but I'm on my last day or a week of antibiotics at the minute and they haven't made a blind bit of difference! This is my third course of antibiotics since I started having ch in September 2004 and not one course has helped me CH wise.
I would hazard a guess your horribly long cycle is coming to a natural end and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! It's always worth mentioning stuff like this though as you never know what others experiences are - I could be the odd one out not you :)

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 18^th, 2005, 5:40am

Antibiotics taken while in cycle haven't affected my CH either but hey........who knows, maybe your system responds differently.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Oct 18^th, 2005, 8:12pm

on 10/18/05 at 05:40:38, Chillrmn1 wrote:

Antibiotics taken while in cycle haven't affected my CH either but hey........who knows, maybe your system responds differently.

Cant say one way or the other but when I first got hit about six years ago and both my Doc & myself knew nothing about CH and the HA's wouldn't go away, at the time there was a virus going around that was causing severe head aches so my Doc prescribed anti biotics in an attemp to kill what ever it was, the course of tablet lasted 10 days but within seven days my HA's had withered to just a mild nothing and by the tenth day they had gone completly, I therefore assuming that it was a virus I had.
How bloody wrong I was when five years later that damn virus came back to haunt me again, this time my Doc saw me going through a hit and picked straight up what it was, I have to admit that I did think of getting anti biotics again to see if they worked but things started to settle down so I didn't bother.

Who knows ? maybe we do react to meds differently and next time around I will suggest this to my Doc because she is receptive to my thoughts.

Kind Regards
Barry

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by jcmquix on Oct 19^th, 2005, 11:34am

My Dr put me on Indocin 25mg pills, before I could get any of the meds for CH... He told me if that didn't make the HA's go away.. that he agreed with me that I have CH... well it didn't stop the HA's, so I got my meds for CH...

I guess its some kind of Antibotic, He told me to take them only for 3 days... if the HA's didn't stop, quit taking them...

So I really do not know.... just my 2 cents...

God Bless
Charlie

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Gator on Oct 19^th, 2005, 3:16pm

on 10/19/05 at 11:34:57, jcmquix wrote:

Indocin (Indomethacin) is an NSAID like ibuprofen or naproxen.

The med is normally prescribed up to 300mg to differentiate between Paroxysmal Hemicrania and Cluster Headache. Indocin is almost 100% effective in the treatment of Paroxysmal Hemicrania. The main drawback to Indocin is that it is rough on the stomach. Typically an antacid (my doc told me to take OTC zantac75) is prescribed along with it.

Taking only 25mg for 3 days really isn't enough of a trial to determine whether it would work or not.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by LeLimey on Oct 19^th, 2005, 3:25pm

Indomethacin or Indocin is a wonderful drug and I wish everyone would try it because if it works for you then you WILL be pain free. Who gives a hoot what label gets put on your ha's if you can get rid of them eh?! I tried Indo very early on in my cycle and if wishing it would work could have made it so then the first dose would have done the trick. Sadly it had no benefit for me whatsoever and to say I was gutted is an understatement.

Yes you do need strong antacids with it but as far as I'm concerned I'd recommend everyone with multiple hits a day tries it.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by E-Double on Oct 19^th, 2005, 3:40pm

Probably coincidence.

Regarding indocin.

I was on it for over a yr to treat ice-pick HA which I get along with clusters.

It kept the zaps away but not the clusters.

When I had to come off of it so that I could try lithium for clusters (can't mix), I was whacked with the most god awful rebound HA's that literally lasted days.

It was as debilitating.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by floridian on Oct 19^th, 2005, 9:01pm

During my first episode, I went to the doctor, he gazed up my nose, and made the pronouncement of sinus infection. I took antibiotics and the headaches stopped. Coincidence? Maybe, but immune activation is one component of the disease. Having lots of nasty bacteria so close to the trigeminal nerve might be as bad for some people as MSG is for others.

Antibiotics also have some powerful effects that are totally unrelated to stopping bacteria - they can be anti-inflammatory, or stimulate the growth of some cells just like growth hormone (that's why they are given to animals in their feed in doses too small to have an antibiotic effect - more chicken meat, quicker!).

Antibiotics are not a sure fire treatment for clusters, but by all means, treat any infections that you have, whether in the sinuses or the toes. Episodics seem to have a problem with blood flow around the sinuses, and an infection there can only make things worse.

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Sinus+Problems
http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Neti+Pot

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by jcmquix on Oct 20^th, 2005, 9:14am

Well Thanks for the info Guys...

God Bless & PFDAN's
Charlie

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Lissa on Oct 20^th, 2005, 12:37pm

The last episode I had was triggered by my going off an anti-depressant known as Effexor.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by JoeKen on Oct 27^th, 2005, 5:18pm

:)
Hi again,
Having started this thread going I thought that I would bring it to a close. The concensus of opinion seems to be in favour of coincidence, and I accept that that is the most likely 'explanation'. However, having finished taking the antibiotic 2 to 3 weeks ago, the CH has returned. It's like clockwork every day, starting between 4 and 5 pm. I hit it with Almotriptan and oxygen as soon as it is apparent that it's here to stay and an hour later I am back to normal. I can live with this level, but dread it escalating.
Thanks to all those who read the thread, and particularly to those who responded.
Nil illegitmum carborundum.
JoeKen.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by thebbz on Oct 27^th, 2005, 9:07pm

;)Sorry you cant stop it once it is started. Only the thread fairies can stop a thread. I have speculated over the years on things such and this. Just when you think you have something isolated and feel you know what the beast will do...Bam and back to speculating we go.
coincidence I think.
But what do I know. :P
Find what works for you and drive on.
jb

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Beastfodder on Oct 28^th, 2005, 4:18am

There's definitely some sinus connection - first heavy cold in the Autumn gets me every time.

I've noticed no impact with antibiotics and cluster headaches. Tried a few antibiotics as well, seeing as the doctors diagnosed me with Sinusitis for the first 6 years of atacks !!!

Interesting point - yesterday the GP who was helping get a new 02 cyclinder for the current cluster linked Sinustis to Clamydia (sp?) in that it's usually the same antibiotioc that works for both!

Know the feeling about the onset - hope it stays clear for you

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Jonny on Oct 29^th, 2005, 1:22pm

Indo in the ass (Shut up Helen) work great for me as an abortive (50 mgs I think) ...then they stopped making it in that form, but thats cool......Now I have Zomig NS which works just as fast as Trex injects....without the rebounds and 7X's the half life ;;D

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 29^th, 2005, 1:27pm

on 10/29/05 at 13:22:49, Jonny wrote:

Zomig NS which works just as fast as Trex injects....without the rebounds and 7X's the half life ;;D

7X the half life, meaning what? Unused Zomig NS can last in your medicine cabinet longer than Trex?

BMonee

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by E-Double on Oct 29^th, 2005, 1:38pm

on 10/29/05 at 13:27:51, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:

7X the half life, meaning what? Unused Zomig NS can last in your medicine cabinet longer than Trex? NO

BMonee

It stays in your system 7x as long....half life is the time it takes one half an atom to deteriorate into a smaller atom.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by unsolved1 on Oct 29^th, 2005, 2:20pm

Coincidence. Antibiotics never had an effect on my clusters. I'm taking Penicillin VK 500mg X 4 day now, no effect.

UNsolved

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 29^th, 2005, 2:36pm

on 10/29/05 at 13:38:16, E-Double wrote:

It stays in your system 7x as long....half life is the time it takes one half an atom to deteriorate into a smaller atom.

So typically Trex works for about 4 to 6 hours, Zomig NS lasts for 30 hours or longer?
Damn, 1 dose per day should keep the beast away!!
BMonee

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Jasmyn on Oct 29^th, 2005, 3:18pm

I'm clueless, sorry, wish I wasn't...

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by Karla on Oct 29^th, 2005, 6:11pm

I took indomethacin and within 3 days my ha stopped for 5 months then they started again. So it can act quickly. The medicine never worked again for me.

Title: Re: Coincidence or Connection?
Post by StressFree on Nov 5^th, 2005, 3:13pm

In reply to Karla,
I had similar experience with Verapamil. I went from chronic daily attacks to years without a cluster cycle (no maintenance meds either). The verapamil definately kicked some cluster headache butt. When following cycles did occur, the Verapmil seemed to be no help at all - even in very large doses. Yet the last cycle I had, it seemed to take care of things pretty well. I was given Prednisone taper initially also, and Maxalt as abortive. This combo seems to do it for me these days. Very odd how cluster attacks seem to move around what ever meds are used. In my case the verapamil was worth a try again. Rich