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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> PFO and Cluster
        
(Message started by: violet on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 12:17pm)

Title: PFO and Cluster
Post by violet on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 12:17pm

http://www.w-h-a.org/wha2/Newsite/results.asp?color=&idContentNews=791

PFO, a hole in the heart, is found to cause cluster migraines.

Oddly enough, I just had a PFO closure this summer because I have had 2 small strokes. My clusters have been improving as well.
Vi

Title: Re: PFO and Cluster
Post by unsolved1 on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 8:22pm

Cluster migraine ?? What is a cluster migraine ?? I think you misread it ... I don't believe they know the cause of clusters. PFO may be common in Clusterheads ... but not the cause.

Anyone else have a take on this ?

UNsolved

edited to add: It looks like PFO is fairly common. As much as 27% of the population may have PFO.
Read THis http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1766.htm

If I'm wrong ... someone correct me

Title: Re: PFO and Cluster
Post by Jill on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 9:00pm

It doesnt say that PFO causes CH, just that there is a higher incidence of it in clusterheads. But it also says that one in five people have this hole though it doesnt cause problems - is it really more common in clusterheads or just coincidence? Just curious...

It also says that cluster headache has been associated with sleep disorder breathing - what does that mean? I know what sleep apnea is, my dad had it, but I dont think that that is what they mean... any ideas..

There is one thing interesting with this that would explain why oxygen works so well for people and that is this part:

Quote:

Dr. Finocchi and colleagues speculate that the presence of a right-to-left shunt "can cause a level of hypoxemia that facilitates cluster headache attacks." With PFO, blood that bypasses lungs carries less oxygen than normal, and previous reports have suggested that poorly oxygenated blood may help trigger cluster headaches.

But then why doesnt oxygen work all of the time and why does it not work for some people..

Maybe they are onto something and maybe not... interesting though..

Jill

Edit to add: The term cluster migraine was brought up at convention too - I never got it. But they said that it was cluster headaches with some migraine features such as the nausea or length or sound/light sensitivity that some have...

Title: Re: PFO and Cluster
Post by floridian on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 9:23pm

on 09/23/05 at 21:00:20, Jill wrote:

It also says that cluster headache has been associated with sleep disorder breathing - what does that mean? I know what sleep apnea is, my dad had it, but I dont think that that is what they mean... any ideas..

There is one thing interesting with this that would explain why oxygen works so well for people and that is this part:

But then why doesnt oxygen work all of the time and why does it not work for some people..

Oxygen does not work for all people all the time because when oxygen levels in the blood drop, that triggers other reactions. Sometimes a shot of oxygen is not enough to stop the ball once it gets rolling. Oxygen is more effective if it is used at the first sign of a headache. In some people, the body seems to go straight to the 'other reactions' without any need for low oxygen.

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=PFO
http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Anticoagulants
http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Apnea

Title: Re: PFO and Cluster
Post by unsolved1 on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 9:50pm

on 09/23/05 at 21:00:20, Jill wrote:

Yes, I think that is what they mean ... sleep apnea

on 09/23/05 at 21:00:20, Jill wrote:

Edit to add: The term cluster migraine was brought up at convention too - I never got it. But they said that it was cluster headaches with some migraine features such as the nausea or length or sound/light sensitivity that some have...

You've got to be kidding [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: PFO and Cluster
Post by rossimft on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 10:06pm

It seems like all the researchers have developed an understanding of the physiology and mechanisms involved in the CH, but no one talks about WHY they happen, causal factors, and predisposition to having CH (at least from what I have read.) Does anyone have any insight to these issues? I think if I at least knew why I had these things, I could have a better level of acceptance.

On a tangent, this is my first episode that I have experienced with all of you, and this has REALLY made such a difference with coping and having the strength to persevere. Even though my cycle has just ended, I will certainly remain connected to all of you. I am having my first glass of wine in 2 months and savoring it!!

Cheers!

Title: Re: PFO and Cluster
Post by Jill on Sep 23^rd, 2005, 10:30pm

Quote:

You've got to be kidding laugh

I never understood the term 'cluster migraines' myself because to me, it is one or the other. I think that alot of where the term comes from has to do with doctors having a lack of knowledge with CH... if that makes sense.

I have had more than one neuro tell me that that is what I have because some of the attacks last so long... Though both are painful, yes on different levels, migraines and clusters are totally different from each other and to say that someone has 'cluster migraines' are like comparing apples and oranges - both are fruit but they are so different..

But.. I am just saying what they said at convention... of course this reminds me of my primary doctor who said that migraines and clusters were the same thing, clusters just came for a few weeks and then went away for awhile.. it all comes down to needing to educate people more.

Just my thoughts...

Jill

Added here - thanks for explaining the oxygen part.. It never really worked for me and I could never understand why but I guess that we all are different...

Title: Re: PFO and Cluster
Post by yikes-another-one on Sep 25^th, 2005, 9:46am

:P

IT really does take one to know he difference.

I got migraines because of the birth control pill.
Itwasso strange a sensation, not to be able to
brush my hair or wear a barette,because the scalp was
so sensitive, like bruised on the inside...
and to lay down andfall asleep was a blessing.

It never affected my memory, or energy level.
and it lasted for days at the "shadow" pain level.

I was off the pill and doing well....
and Whammmmm
the beast found my address, and bore a hole
behind my left eye...so he could vacation
there anytime hefelt like it.

Now it's been 9 years, and I know.
Clusters are sooooo different form migraines.
It is the english language that fails us
to be able to describe to pain.

Even a painscale doesn't work,
if you aren't used to headadches,
and get a migraine you would call it a level 10....
but thenget a cluster, even a lowlevel 4
hurts worse than a migraine 7...
frame of reference??? I don't know.

just cannot compare them until you've had both.

Just thank god that Zomig and Imitrex
work for either type.

and thank god you don't haveboth....