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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> caffeine as an abortive
        
(Message started by: madaline on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:14am)

Title: caffeine as an abortive
Post by madaline on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:14am

Has anyone tried taking some caffeine during an attack? I was having an attack (I have chronic cluster headaches) and I could not take my Indocine for a while because I was having a medical procedure and had to be off all asperin products for a week. I took two Tylenol and drank a can of soda, just like this. The pain was aborted in about 15 mins. This amazed me and I figured it had to be the caffeine in the soda. I have been doing this daily for two weeks worth of attacks (when they are about nmber 5-7)and it is consistently working. Anyone ever try this? (Otherwise, for number 10's, I use Zomig Spray, Indocine, 2 1/2 Verapamil every evening, and I am getting O2 to try - being delivered tomorrow. ) But does anyone know about the caffeine thing? Madaline

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by nani on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:34am

A cola or a strong cup of coffee will kill shadows or low level hits for me. I tried a Red Bull today and it killed a
k-7 in 10 minutes. Red Bull also has taurine, but it has a lot of caffiene, too. Careful with the tylenol...it could cause rebound headaches.

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by hdido on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:52am

When I get an attack at work, I often go to the canteen and have a cup of cappucino or espresso; often the pain lessens for a bit, but I think that it is due more to the disraction of walking to the canteen and talking to people there (I use distraction, i.e., engaging in some sort of physical activity, be it walking or talking, to take my mind off the pain. It works for a short while, but invariably, unless it is a short attack, the pain remains and runs its course).

With regards to Tylenol causing "rebound" headaches: the issue of "rebound" CH pain is a hot issue now. The medical community has changed, for the better, IMO, the name of "rebound headaches" to Medication Overuse Headaches (MOH). MOH occurs when too much of an analgesic is used to stop HA pain and once the analgesic use is stopped, the HA will run its course and then go away. MOH, according to all of the medical research that I have read about them recently, occurs only in secondary type HAs such as tension HAs and not in primary HAs, such as clusters. A few Tylenol or whatever other type of analgesic used for a CH attack will not cause the attack to be worse nor will the attack disappear when the meds are stopped. Right now there is no scientific evidence that MOH occurs with CH sufferers; as we all know, some CH attacks are worse than others and that has to do with the nature of the disease and not the abortive used. Since the issue of MOH has been raised in the cluster community, I've seen posts claiming that oxygen, Imitrex, fentanyl, other opiates and just about every drug used to reduce CH pain labeled by one person or another as causing "rebound" CH attacks. If CH pain is made worse by the use of an abortive in a person then it is unique to that person and we should be careful not to label that abortive as causing "rebound (MOH)" pain. MOH is caused by the OVERUSE of an analgesic, not by the proper use of one and doesn't apply to CH. I am not putting anyone down who claims that something might make their CH attacks worse, but what they are experiencing is not MOH.

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by AussieBrian on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:55am

For the milder ones I've long sworn by washing painkillers down with a cup of strong coffee. Makes them work much faster and I can get away with taking a lesser amount.

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by Topical on Jul 21^st, 2005, 7:23am

Interesting hdido. I have not heard that O2 will cause rebounds. Typically imitrex is the one mentioned.

Personally, I've noticed that if I don't abort the attack completely using O2 and leave it at a low level I can rebound at that point. I don't know if I would call it a rebound though as the pain was never completely gone.

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by paul_pero on Jul 21^st, 2005, 9:32am

Hdido,

my wife and I were discussing that my O2 and melatonin have changed my cycle this time. It is the first time in 14 years that I have used these. This cycle is lasting longer , but milder and less often.

Madeline, I wish I could try caffiene. I'm allergic to it. As soon as i drink it I'll be running to the toilet, as it gives me the runs (sorry to give to much info).

Paul

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by wip5150 on Jul 21^st, 2005, 9:37am

Interesting topic.

I do find that when i'm having a low-level attack or shadows I can abate them even more by cannonballing a Coke or two (I can't drink Pepsi - it's just horrible - but that's another topic). Although I feel that it may cause a rebound headache when the caffiene runs it's course - at least, that's how it think it works in my body.

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jul 21^st, 2005, 10:22am

Some people will agree and some will disagree on the use of caffeine to abort CH.

I'm one that will agree to a certain extent. I get most of my worse CH in the middle of the night. If I wake up with one and get into action pretty quick, I can hold what would have been a K8 down to a K2 or 3 some times.

What I do is get a pot of coffee going ASAP and drink a couple of cups while chain smoking (There are 2 opinions on the smokes too.) to hold it down and sometimes abort it.

CH is different with every person that gets it and finding things that help is tricky. If you find something that works, keep doing it.

BTW: How can someone NOT like Pepsi? The only thing I like better is Guinness.

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by wip5150 on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:11pm

on 07/21/05 at 10:22:06, ExplodingEyeBall wrote:

BTW: How can someone NOT like Pepsi? The only thing I like better is Guinness.

While I currently live in Chicago, I'm a child of the south and, therefore, Coke is king. I find Pepsi too sweet for me but, for purposes of this discussion here, I'm sure it's solid in the way of caffiene.

What ever happened to Jolt Cola?

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by hdido on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:29pm

Topical, oxygen was mentioned as causing "rebounds" on the OUCH-UK site and I've seen it elsewhere, but there is no proof that anything causes MOH with CH sufferers. It is sort of funny how someone will post something, such as the 02 or Imitrix causing "rebounds" and suddenly we get tons of testimonials saying that that is true...the same thing with some drugs, such as Frovatriptan, which in some places suddenly seems to have "cured" loads of CHers...but beware, soon someone will post that Frova causes "rebounds" and the cures will vanish! As so many people have written so many times, if something works for you in relieving CH pain, stay with it and don't stop because of anecdotes. PF or die trying (well, not exactly die, but it does have a nice ring to it)!

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by nani on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:33pm

For the record... the "rebounds" I referred to were the "proven" MOH when using to many OTC NSAIDS. Those can happen to anybody, not just CH sufferers.

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by hdido on Jul 21^st, 2005, 12:42pm

I sort of agree, Nani....I just haven't seen anything scientifically proving that anything can cause MOH with CH pain as the pain will come, go, get worse, get better, get chronic all on its own and not go away when whatever med is taken is stopped, as is the case with true MOH. Maybe we should get the medical community to give CH a different name-that might end the confusion as it isn't a headache but more of an eye ache but there is nothing wrong with the eye but with the hypothalamus. How about Hypothalamic Optical Hurts Like A m*th*rf**k*r Pain Disorder (HOH-LMPD)? LSMFT (Who remembers what that acronym means and if you do then you are getting old)!

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 2:12am

I drink coffee 9 - 5 but during night time attacks I drink very hot tea and smoke like a chimney. I think it's the heat from the tea on my teeth and roof of my mouth that helps. Never tried other sources of caffeine.

I used to do the same thing with hot home brewed Cinnamon made from the bark of the tree.

I throw the smokes in to occupy my hands and keep em' from smacking me in the head.

Tom

Title: Re: caffeine as an abortive
Post by sandie99 on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 3:04am

on 07/21/05 at 00:34:08, nani wrote:

A cola or a strong cup of coffee will kill shadows or low level hits for me.

I'm a chronic. I've noticed that drinking ice cold coca-cola diet with lemon and ice cubes helped me a lot with shadows and pain med (maxalt) side effects.