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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Painkillers?
        
(Message started by: Limey on Jul 11^th, 2005, 4:29am)

Title: Painkillers?
Post by Limey on Jul 11^th, 2005, 4:29am

Doc tried me on Tramadol a few years ago and although they had side effects (dizziness etc) they punched away the CH for a few hours. Just begun a new cycle though and found that the Tramadol left me very ill for a couple of days so the Doc switched me to Diclomax which is useless (doesnt even touch the CH). Anyone have any recomendations for painkillers for CH's?

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by Limey on Jul 11^th, 2005, 4:31am

Don't know why "I love YaBB 1G - SP1" appears under my name. What's that all about????????

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by Bob_Johnson on Jul 11^th, 2005, 12:25pm

There is broad medical agreement pain meds are NOT effective for clusters and are not, generally,used unless all other abortives have failed.

Unless there are other medical considerations which you have not mentioned, I'd suggest that a physician who uses pain meds as a first-line treatment is not very tuned in to the treatment of headache.

Here is a link to read and print and take to your doctor. It describes preventive, transitional, abortive and surgical treatments for CH. (2002)

http://www.brightok.net/~mnjday/chtherapy.pdf

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by StressFree on Jul 11^th, 2005, 12:27pm

Good Day,
For me the usual Codeine or Vicoden quit working within a few days or a week when taken regularly. Very disappointing when KIP 10 attacks break through good pain meds. I've had luck with Stadol Nasal Spray, though at first you get very dizzy and sick feeling. I try to take it only every couple of days or so. It offsets the Maxalt or Caffergot (ergotamine). Take only as directed -strong stuff!

I saw your next post and thought I'd mention there are others noting clusters potentially set off after a bad cold. I think this had something to do with my recent bout starting up. See the "Sharing Potential Causes" message from a few weeks ago. I've had cycles change radically depending on meds taken, but never gone chronic after bocoming episodic (was chronic as a teen). Best of luck to you, and prayers as well - Rich

I need to modify - It is the "Switching Sides" posting which is fairly recent that has some mention of bad colds...

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by wip5150 on Jul 11^th, 2005, 12:31pm

Last night about 8:45 I started getting a quality shadow and since I had taken three Trex nasals (20mg) in the previous 19 hours, I tried to go it alone. It quickly escalated to about a K9 or 10 and I grabbed my bottle of leftover Vicodin (leftover from a vasectomy ;)) and took two, hoping it would kill the motherf***er. All it did was make me feel even more groggy than normal and more than a little stoned. Meanwhile, my head was KILLING me.

So, in short, painkillers - not effective for me.

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by StressFree on Jul 11^th, 2005, 12:42pm

Oops - I'm a dolt! It was wip5150 who wrote about colds as a cluster cycle trigger. Sorry guys. I guess the pertinent partys saw the note anyway. Best of luck to all.

Also, I think the odd "I love YaBB" note thing pertains to the software used to make up this web site. If you go into your member preferences you can change that.

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by hdbngr on Jul 11^th, 2005, 1:39pm

Bob:

It's like every other medicine on the market, pain meds have their time and place in treatment. If abused, they can cause more harm than good.

While it would always be prudent to try the abortive, and preventative meds as a first course of treatment, there are some folks that they just don't work for. Those folks who are chronic, and I'm talking daily hits of more than a year with no remission, could possbily benefit from these meds. It is irresponsible to suggest that pain treatment is not part of effective CH treatment.

Some pain meds that chronics have utilized successfully:

Stadol NS (not for long term use)

Duragesic patch (can be used long term and effective for around the clock hits)

Palladone (another name for Dilauded)

Yes, these are last resorts, but no, they should not be discounted as ineffective.

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 11^th, 2005, 2:08pm

From experience - pain killers are useless. You would need to be on em' almost 24X7 to address attacks well before they start.

The only chances you have of making Pain Killers effective is to

become an addict
be able to predict CH attacks so well that your Pain Killers are peaking at just the right times.

Don't wast the time, money or brain cells.

Tom

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by Bob P on Jul 11^th, 2005, 2:40pm

Nice GPZ 900r too!

Bikers always welcome here.

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by Linda_Howell on Jul 11^th, 2005, 3:00pm

Look at it this way. Even if your cycle is only 3 months out of a year...that is a LOT of narcotics!!!!!!!!!!!
By the time your cycle is over you'd be stuck with an addiction, and have a much bigger problem than CH. Oh yes...and they do not work and have a nasty tendancy to give rebound cluster headaches anyway.

Save the Vicodin, et al, for use after surgery and something that you will only use for a FEW DAYS.

off my soap box now. Linda

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by kimmeesue on Jul 11^th, 2005, 3:34pm

Gotta put in my 2 cents worth. As a chronic who rarely gets a hit below an 8 and a duration a 2-4 hours, and who has had no long term success with triptans, O2, , etc. painkillers do have their place. Not oral. I have to go to the ER for injections. I lose a lot of time, usually sleep about 36 hours, but it beats the alternative. I don't enjoy living this way and put off the trips to the ER as often as I can but all of my doctors are in agreement on this course of action.
So, if you find something that wrks for you, go for it. We are not all the same.

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 11^th, 2005, 4:22pm

on 07/11/05 at 15:34:27, kimmeesue wrote:

I have to go to the ER for injections. I lose a lot of time, usually sleep about 36 hours, but it beats the alternative. I don't enjoy living this way and put off the trips to the ER as often as I can but all of my doctors are in agreement on this course of action.
So, if you find something that wrks for you, go for it. We are not all the same.

Kimmeesue - You've touched on something that I overlooked - Injections directly into the bloodstream have some merit because they work very rapidly.

However, even this method can not be used often enough because of the potential for addiction.

Tom

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by Linda_Howell on Jul 11^th, 2005, 5:36pm

Quote:

because of the potential for addiction.

ta-da !!!!!!!

And if one had to go to the ER for that injection, I cannot even imagine the COST of that for a chronic. :o

Chronic for 18 yrs.

Linda

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by burnt-toast on Jul 11^th, 2005, 6:16pm

on 07/11/05 at 17:36:37, Linda_Howell wrote:

ta-da !!!!!!!

And if one had to go to the ER for that injection, I cannot even imagine the COST of that for a chronic. :o

Chronic for 18 yrs.

Linda

Exactly

2 to 5 attacks daily Oct. through July x 6 to 7 days per week + 1 to 2 attacks daily Aug. and Sep. x 5 to 6 days per week x 10 years chronic = $$$ + addiction.

Folks with real, real short ON-Cycles may have better chances.

Tom

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by marlinsfan on Jul 11^th, 2005, 8:34pm

Linda is right. I had back surgery in April, took vicadin for 4 days, my cycle started 2 days after I stopped taking vicadin.

I am on celebrex now for the back problem. It's not the same. I take it every night now (used to take it every morning too), and I still got hard hits in the middle of the night.

Stuff does nothing for the headache.

It's HOT here in phoenix! :P I want to be back in FLA!! 8)

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by unsolved1 on Jul 11^th, 2005, 9:16pm

I am currently using Stadol injections to control heavy shadows. Anything above a K5 and I have to rely on Imitrex ... No narcotics will help :-/

Unsolved

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by bnfreeman on Jul 11^th, 2005, 10:28pm

When I first started to get clusters I could take 2 lorcet plus with an imitrex and it knock me out which was great for night hits. After a year of pain meds regularly they didn't not have any really good effect. Percocet mixed with imitrex made me terribly sick. They really only worked with the shadows. Even then the pain was still there. I guess I was at least happy because I was high.

BF

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by hdbngr on Jul 12^th, 2005, 12:55pm

This is a sore point with me. Everyone who takes narcotics is not going to become an addict. There is a big difference between dependency and addiction.

I don't think anyone should ever say they are not effective for clusters because there are at least five chronics out here who know otherwise. What would be the harm in using pain relief for three months then going off of it when the cycle is complete?

I used the Duragesic patch for a year, one patch every three days, and when I wasn't getting round the clock hits anymore, I tapered off of it. On my own.

Kind of like childbirth. You know the baby is eventually going to show up, but you can take advantage of an epidural or you can enjoy the full extent of the experience without it.

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by Bob P on Jul 12^th, 2005, 2:36pm

Aw ya bunch of dope addicts! Yer as bad as those acid/shroom head guys.

Opiates should not be used to treat clusters (they should be saved for the celebration when the clusters stop).

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by seasonalboomer on Jul 12^th, 2005, 2:39pm

(Since Bob P degenerated the conversation I'll add to the fray)

on 07/12/05 at 12:55:01, hdbngr wrote:

This is a sore point with me.

Maybe it needs a Duragesic patch then.... ;)

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by jcmquix on Jul 12^th, 2005, 2:53pm

on 07/11/05 at 20:34:14, marlinsfan wrote:

It's HOT here in phoenix! :P I want to be back in FLA!! 8)

Don't Hurry back to soon, have you seen the weather report for Sat/Sun. Tropical Strom Emily is shaping up out there..

:-[ :-/

PFDAN to ALL !!!

Title: Re: Painkillers?
Post by Lizzie2 on Jul 12^th, 2005, 3:18pm

[smiley=ohjez.gif]

http://headaches.about.com/od/advocacyissues/a/addict_depend.htm

Issues are Addiction, Dependence, and Tolerance...

Fact of the matter is that people who use narcotics for pain management generally do not become addicts. The incidence is something like .001%

Not saying by any means this is a great way to fight CH, but...just had to clear up that whole addiction/dependence thing.....