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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
        
(Message started by: kimber720 on Jun 29th, 2005, 1:47am)
Title: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by kimber720 on Jun 29th, 2005, 1:47am
Hi Everyone,              
 I'm new here.  This is actually for my husband who has suffered these terrible headaches for the past three yrs.
He has high blood pressure and takes meds. for it.  Currently, he's on a cycle that has lasted for about a month. I actually figured it out, that it was clusters. He has all the classic symptoms.
 I've read that lsd or shrooms can break a cycle. We don't do drugs of any kind, but I'm ready to try anything
to not see him suffer anymore.
If anyone has any info. on this, please let me know. If this topic has been covered, please post a link.

Yours,
Kimberly
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by BikerBob on Jun 29th, 2005, 2:22am
http://www.clusterbusters.com/
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by kimber720 on Jun 29th, 2005, 7:27am
   thanks for the link, biker bob.  

 Does anyone have personal experience that it works or not?


Yours,
Kimberly
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by E-Double on Jun 29th, 2005, 7:44am
Make sure he gets a proper diagnosis then pick your tools for battle.


There are several HA types that appear to be similar to CH yet differ in duration and are responsive to less dreadful meds.

Good luck & research!!
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by JJA on Jun 29th, 2005, 8:41am

on 06/29/05 at 01:47:10, kimber720 wrote:
I've read that lsd or shrooms can break a cycle.

Yep, it has worked for many people here. Shrooms have been used more than LSD because they are easier to obtain "safely." This is usually a last resort after conventional meds fail.

BikerBob gave you the best link. There are a lot of posts about this on the medications and treatment board. Here is a good one.
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1085591042

Watch for the term "clusterbusters." Around here, it is synonymous with using hallucinogens to treat cluster headaches.

Be warned that there are still some political and personal quarrels about this treatment.

Also, recently LSA (in morning glory seeds, HBWR seeds and Rivea Corymbosa seeds) has been used with some success and also has a cycle-breaking effect. I think that the side effects may be worse with LSA compared to shrooms, but it is legal.


Read up and ask questions.

Good luck

Jesse
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by kimber720 on Jun 29th, 2005, 9:38am
Thanks to All

I was looking for something to actually stop the cycle,
not just treat the symptoms. He has imitrex tabs, but has to take it every night at the onset of a headache.

Yours,
Kimberly
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by Karla on Jun 29th, 2005, 9:40am
every person is different and every time you take it the dose is different slighlty.  The same is with shrooms and LSD. I took it once and it aborted it for several months (5) Then they came back and I couldn't get rid of them.  I tried the same strain and dosage  and it failed.
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by cazman on Jun 29th, 2005, 1:34pm
hi kim im currently useing lsa to break my cycle nad im now 4 days pf {pain free} and it took three doses to acheive it i found out i took more than i needed at first my second and third doses were small and has proven more effective for me i only went thru a small amount of a tripping effect no sick feeling at all i did this with 20 Morning Glory seeds cruched up in a coffee gringer and ate them washed down with orange juice cause the taste horrible , if you go to clusterbusters you can learn more from others that have had success with this treament good luck and i hope your husband feels better and remember just because its legal and a doctor gives it to ya dose not mean its safe if you watch the news you know what i mean.
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 29th, 2005, 3:30pm

on 06/29/05 at 13:34:33, cazman wrote:
remember just because its legal and a doctor gives it to ya dose not mean its safe if you watch the news you know what i mean.



"In August 2004, Graham told his supervisors that, in light of his research, high-dose prescriptions of the painkiller Vioxx, which appeared to triple heart attack rates, should be banned. They told him to be quiet. Their reasoning was circular: That’s not the FDA’s position; you work here; it can’t be yours. Dr. John Jenkins, the FDA director of new drugs, argued that because Graham’s findings didn’t replicate the drug’s warning label, Graham shouldn’t be raising the warning. Another supervisor, Anne Trontrell, called Graham’s position “particularly problematic since FDA funded this study.” Days after Graham’s pronouncement, the agency approved Vioxx for use in children. "


"In November he went before the Senate Finance Committee hearing on Vioxx. Gaunt (he’d lost 12 pounds over three months) but very lucid, Graham took his place before a bank of cameras, wearing his only sport coat, a 20-year-old blue blazer with brass buttons. He explained his conclusion that patients taking high doses of Vioxx were suffering heart attacks. “The estimates range from 88,000 to 139,000 Americans,” he said. “Of these, 30 to 40 percent probably died. For the survivors, their lives were changed forever.” According to the top end of those projections, the toll Vioxx had already taken was comparable to the number of Americans killed in Vietnam. “The FDA, as currently configured,” Graham told the committee, “is incapable of protecting America against another Vioxx. We are virtually defenseless.”

In 1998, for instance, an FDA drug reviewer named Dr. Robert Misbin wrote a paper showing that the diabetes drug Rezulin had caused liver failure in a patient during a controlled study. When his bosses tried to prevent him from publishing, Misbin saw firsthand how the system encouraged the sacrifice of public health to the interests of the industry. “One of my supervisors said something to me that I have never forgotten,” Misbin says, “that we have to maintain good relations with the drug companies because they are our customers.”


full story:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/05/david_graham.html

Bobw
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by cazman on Jun 29th, 2005, 5:59pm
well done pinkfloyd nice info to know its scary to read stuff like that and that is why i chose to take other roots to help myself thru without  the drug companies answer to my problem wich amounts to them profiting off my pain and suffering im mean in the usa i relpax pill average price $18 per pill canada $8usd and this is only a very slow aborting med for ch that is flat out someone profiting off the usa suffers, today my girlfriend went to the hospital and was found to have a skin infection caused by poisonivy  the cost for the cream $197.00 for a 2 oz tube i went and looked at the cost in canada $67.00 usd that is freaking criminal in my eyes my advice we need alternatives and the goverment needs to stop outlawing alternatives because the drug compainies will lose money screw them all i will take what ever helps me lsa , lsd , mushrooms, and pot cause it stops the insane pain in my back from when i broke it a fews years back cause it sure beats eating the drug companies higly toxic painkillers they sell that do nothing but make you way sicker in the end if not kill you
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 30th, 2005, 12:37am
Well, I'm certainly not against all the drugs on the market as there are many that work well with side effects that don't outweigh their usefulness. Many that save lives.
OTOH, all of them should be fully researched by people before they use them. It's so simple to do now with internet access so available. We can all be much more aware then in the past. Even if freinds and family don't have such access, and the knowledge to use it properly, it can be done by others.
As the previous article points out, you may not be able to find out everything, and be completely assured of their safety, but we can certainly be more educated than we could in the past. This information on Vioxx was available (and known to many of us) to people researching the cox-2 inhibitors, a couple of years ago.

The costs involved are another matter. I've always been somewhat accepting of the need for higher costs to pay for research, but things are getting way out of hand.
One of the reasons any type of National Health plan would be so difficult to pass in the US is the cost involved. Just looking at the price differences you quoted between what we pay for meds in the states vs. what other countries pay for the same meds, shows how much more expensive it would be here.
Why there is such a difference is another story for another thread.

Its now obvious that the administration (US) and the drug manufacturers have been successful in getting Canada to clamp down on people in the US from importing or traveling to Canada to get their medications more cheaply. We read of their efforts on this front last year. Last year the US phamaceutical co's threatened to cut or stop drug shipments to Canada, causing shortages for Canadiens, if they continued to sell to US citizens. Looks like it worked.

People in the US will most likely have to actually SEE a doctor in Canada and have a script written IN Canada if they want to buy them there at discounted prices. No more senior citizen bus trips across the border on shopping trips. No more internet sales. No more states helping their seniors afford their meds.

Bobw
"Give me liberty or give me death" has been replaced with..."pay me now or pay me later, but you WILL pay me"
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by forgetfulnot on Jun 30th, 2005, 12:59am

on 06/30/05 at 00:37:38, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Well, I'm certainly not against all the drugs on the market as there are many that work well with side effects that don't outweigh their usefulness. Many that save lives.
OTOH, all of them should be fully researched by people before they use them. It's so simple to do now with internet access so available. We can all be much more aware then in the past. Even if freinds and family don't have such access, and the knowledge to use it properly, it can be done by others.
As the previous article points out, you may not be able to find out everything, and be completely assured of their safety, but we can certainly be more educated than we could in the past. This information on Vioxx was available (and known to many of us) to people researching the cox-2 inhibitors, a couple of years ago.

The costs involved are another matter. I've always been somewhat accepting of the need for higher costs to pay for research, but things are getting way out of hand.
One of the reasons any type of National Health plan would be so difficult to pass in the US is the cost involved. Just looking at the price differences you quoted between what we pay for meds in the states vs. what other countries pay for the same meds, shows how much more expensive it would be here.
Why there is such a difference is another story for another thread.

Its now obvious that the administration (US) and the drug manufacturers have been successful in getting Canada to clamp down on people in the US from importing or traveling to Canada to get their medications more cheaply. We read of their efforts on this front last year. Last year the US phamaceutical co's threatened to cut or stop drug shipments to Canada, causing shortages for Canadiens, if they continued to sell to US citizens. Looks like it worked.

People in the US will most likely have to actually SEE a doctor in Canada and have a script written IN Canada if they want to buy them there at discounted prices. No more senior citizen bus trips across the border on shopping trips. No more internet sales. No more states helping their seniors afford their meds.

Bobw
"Give me liberty or give me death" has been replaced with..."pay me now or pay me later, but you WILL pay me"


Bob, I have partial use of my fingers due to excessive use of prednisone over the years. Until now I have been able to get injectible morphine from Peru. The packages have been intercepted and returned to Peru. All I want to know is how do you wipe your ass when your fingers don't work ?.  ;;D

Lee
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by forgetfulnot on Jun 30th, 2005, 1:00am

on 06/30/05 at 00:37:38, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Well, I'm certainly not against all the drugs on the market as there are many that work well with side effects that don't outweigh their usefulness. Many that save lives.
OTOH, all of them should be fully researched by people before they use them. It's so simple to do now with internet access so available. We can all be much more aware then in the past. Even if freinds and family don't have such access, and the knowledge to use it properly, it can be done by others.
As the previous article points out, you may not be able to find out everything, and be completely assured of their safety, but we can certainly be more educated than we could in the past. This information on Vioxx was available (and known to many of us) to people researching the cox-2 inhibitors, a couple of years ago.

The costs involved are another matter. I've always been somewhat accepting of the need for higher costs to pay for research, but things are getting way out of hand.
One of the reasons any type of National Health plan would be so difficult to pass in the US is the cost involved. Just looking at the price differences you quoted between what we pay for meds in the states vs. what other countries pay for the same meds, shows how much more expensive it would be here.
Why there is such a difference is another story for another thread.

Its now obvious that the administration (US) and the drug manufacturers have been successful in getting Canada to clamp down on people in the US from importing or traveling to Canada to get their medications more cheaply. We read of their efforts on this front last year. Last year the US phamaceutical co's threatened to cut or stop drug shipments to Canada, causing shortages for Canadiens, if they continued to sell to US citizens. Looks like it worked.

People in the US will most likely have to actually SEE a doctor in Canada and have a script written IN Canada if they want to buy them there at discounted prices. No more senior citizen bus trips across the border on shopping trips. No more internet sales. No more states helping their seniors afford their meds.

Bobw
"Give me liberty or give me death" has been replaced with..."pay me now or pay me later, but you WILL pay me"
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 30th, 2005, 1:55am

on 06/30/05 at 00:59:38, forgetfulnot wrote:
All I want to know is how do you wipe your ass when your fingers don't work ?.  ;;D

Lee


You can probably order a bidet and take it off your income tax as a medical expense. Then all you need is a towel to dry yourself off with.  :-/

Bobw
And NO...I don't do laundry  ;;D
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by BikerBob on Jun 30th, 2005, 3:19am

on 06/30/05 at 00:37:38, Pinkfloyd wrote:
Its now obvious that the administration (US) and the drug manufacturers have been successful in getting Canada to clamp down on people in the US from importing

Bobw
"Give me liberty or give me death" has been replaced with..."pay me now or pay me later, but you WILL pay me"


Very true.....

During the last couple months I've decided to grow some large woody vines with bell shaped flowers next to my pond. I ordered HBW seeds from a company in the U.S. and they were delivered in 4 days. I ordered RC seeds from a company in Canada and they still haven't been delivered in 23 days. The info on the Canada Post Tracking site says the "Item arrived at the sortation plant" 16 days ago and hasn't moved since.

BB
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by Vicar2 on Jun 30th, 2005, 8:56am

on 06/30/05 at 00:59:38, forgetfulnot wrote:
Bob, I have partial use of my fingers due to excessive use of prednisone over the years. Until now I have been able to get injectible morphine from Peru. The packages have been intercepted and returned to Peru. All I want to know is how do you wipe your ass when your fingers don't work ?.  ;;D

Lee


I would recommend growing short soft just aways from the house shrubs. I'm part cherokee and I've heard the stories......and of course there's the way the people from the India area do it , but then you wouldn't want to shake their hand afterward. ;;D Good luck Lee.

The Vicar2 has lost his shcizophrenic bid to take over jokrs2, so this will be his last post...oh, yeah, take that and that. Jokrs2 you just back off..oh yeah you just make me....which one will win out...stay tuned ..or not. [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by seasonalboomer on Jun 30th, 2005, 9:03am

on 06/30/05 at 01:55:45, Pinkfloyd wrote:
You can probably order a bidet and take it off your income tax as a medical expense. Then all you need is a towel to dry yourself off with.  :-/

Bobw
And NO...I don't do laundry  ;;D


Once you go bidet, you never go back! Beats the heck out of wipin' ass anyday.
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by Topical on Jul 3rd, 2005, 7:21am
I saw this thread the other night and wanted to comment. Has anyone ever experienced a kip10 or known someone who had one when coming down from an LSD trip at any point in their lives?

I have heard of this happening to someone who now suffers from CH.

My advice to kimber720 is to read from multiple sources. The info is there if you do a google search. I am not averse to people using anything. It's our body, our life. Some psychotropic drugs can kill so depending on what you use make sure you know what you are doing. Shrooms are probably your safest treatment if you wanted to go down this route.

This is interesting; look at the food interactions listed below which can cause death when using Passion Flowers. Some of these are triggers in headaches, maybe it's just a coincidence.  Anyone want to eat some brussel sprouts and let us know if they get a CH attack?  :-*


!! WARNING !! MAOI's lower the brain's barrier against more than just Lysergic Acid. Many foods which are completely harmless without MAOI's become LETHAL in combination with them. Such foods include: cheese, alcohol, caffiene, chocolate, animal fats/livers such as chicken, any kind of uppers or downers (including caffiene and diet-pills), MSG (mono-sodium-glutimate) a common food additive, some veggies such as brussel sprouts, dill, wild fennel and other seasonings, etc. Junk food probably contains analogs of most of this too, so just play it safe and don't eat ANYTHING for 12 hours before or after the ingestion of the Passion Flower!!!!! It could mean your life.
http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/psychedelics/morngly.html
Title: Re: does lsd stop the cycles of ch?
Post by Flash on Jul 3rd, 2005, 7:59am
To answer the original question:

Yes certain indole ring hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin (shrooms), and LSD (morning glory, RC, and HBW) can both prevent and abort episodes entirely with one or more sub hallucinogenic doses.

To prevent an episode take the drug prior to the onset of the episode.  This may even be done several wweks on months prior to a scheduled onset.  Some people find mid-way through the remission period to be best.

These drugs are also VERY effective when taken at the onset of an episode and will usually terminate the entire episode.

They may also be taken at any other time during the episode or by a chronic sufferer, although this will often require a longer and more rigourous dosing regime.

I have been using this treatment since Jan 1993, so that's err 12 1/2 years.  In that time I would have anticipated a total of > 2 years of pain time, but instead have experience 2 months.

Hope this helps.



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