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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
        
(Message started by: supcomm on Apr 21^st, 2005, 12:42am)

Title: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by supcomm on Apr 21^st, 2005, 12:42am

I'm baaaaaaack. So's the beast. We've been gone for about three years, but nothing is forever, right?

Just started another run with the beast about a week or two ago, rather mild, wasn't even sure they were clusters until today. Now they're starting to get much stronger, we're climbing up the Kip scale. Today's was probably a 9.

So I go to the doc today. Having tried every OTC drug and herbal-type remedy I could find, the docs had given me Imitrex a cycle or two ago, and it was the FIRST thing that I EVER took that helped tame the beast. Imitrex seemed to work as an abortive AND a preventative.

So, I wanted to get another prescription for more Imitrex. Also wanted to try Prednisone or some type of preventative, too. The doc says no, he thinks my blood pressure is a little too high, it would risk heart attack or stroke.

So, instead, he gives me a prescription for a "muscle relaxant" called Robaxin.

WTF?! Isn't this going to just knock me out? I'm supposed to drive four hours to Clovis, NM tomorrow on a business trip! About the same time the beast comes out to play.

Anyone have any experience with muscle relaxants? Will this help the pain at all? Or just knock me out?

Oh, and BTW, I'm currently PF as I type this, so I thought I'd share some of it with those who aren't PF as they read this. :-)

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by De_Minimis on Apr 21^st, 2005, 1:02am

I believe there is some mention here of narcs and muscle relaxers triggering CH attacks, so you might want to search a little deeper. Pred is an immediate fix for most CHs, but not good for any extended use (my experience). I hate the side effects of Pred and I'm glad to be getting off of it. Good luck and get a Dr. that has a clue about CHs or is willing to learn.

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by supcomm on Apr 21^st, 2005, 1:10am

GOOD LORD! Muscle Relaxants can TRIGGER CH's!?! Oh, gee, thanks, doc...that's great...I paid a $15 copay so you can help me get MORE CH's. Good. Reeeeeeeeeeeal good. (Heavy sigh)

Well, I took a partial dose of one of these Muscle Relaxants a little while ago, and it doesn't seem to be doing anything to me, good or bad. Of course, I'm not having an attack now; that probably won't come till tomorrow about 11:00 am or so, I bet--when I'm on the road to Clovis--unless this thing triggers one tonight...(heavy sigh)

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by supcomm on Apr 21^st, 2005, 1:17am

BTW, is it just me or are doctors going overboard being too concerned about the "heart risks" of Imitrex?

I took a fair amount of Imitrex last time I went through this and my heart appears to still be beating, as far as I can tell.

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by De_Minimis on Apr 21^st, 2005, 1:29am

No no no, I THINK there is mention about relaxers or narcs triggering CHs. I may be completely off my nut, so don't take my word for it. Do some searching around this site for info. The info here is fantastic. I know I was prescribed some narcs for sleep (wife tried to help as she saw sleep had become a thing of the past), but the info I gathered and was provided suggested that the narc might/would trigger a CH. Based upon my experience with alcohol causing a major CH (alc is a CS Depressant, not a narc analgesic, but some similarities), I wasn't about to risk a repeat with a narc. I'm no Dr. In fact, Drs and lawyers are nature enemies, like the mongoose and cobra. I can tell you with certainty what you should do if an officer asks to search your car for drugs. Always say "yes", "please" and "thank you". As far as CH treatment, most of us are happy to share our personal experiences (although they are pretty damn unique as there is no one thing that works for everyone).

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by De_Minimis on Apr 21^st, 2005, 1:44am

If I recall correctly, Imitrex is a vasal (I can't spell for crap) restrictor. It seems CHs are a chemical inbalance resulting in weird seritonin levels and generally tied to sleep patterns and/ seasonal changes. Thus, I would question the value of Imitrex for many CH attacks (although I think I've found some relief on occassion, but then again, attacks tend to run less than 45 minutes for me, so the Imitrex would just barely be getting into my system at the same time the CH was ending). I carry quite a few with me, but I generally don't use them (risk v. benefit). To abort an attack, I've found nothing better than pure O2 with a non-breather mask. For me, the O2 aborts 100% of my CH attacks and usually within 10 minutes. The sooner on the O2, the shorter the attack. Your Dr. should have no trouble prescribing that for you, I would think. You could have a tank in your car (securely in your car), for your trip. When you start feeling that icy-hot grip on your eye, you pull over (somewhere safe I hope), start huffing your O2 and life is good. I would love to be the trooper seeing someone sucking on a tank of compressed air and having to investigate that (illegal huffing of nitrous comes to mind). If you plan on using O2 like that in public, I'd keep the receipt to be help prove you're not up to no good.

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by jokrs2 on Apr 21^st, 2005, 2:19am

What type of muscle relaxer? I have taken zanax on occasion because I have an additional illness, which is a tranquilizer and I have also had the valium types without them being triggers in as much as I can remember. Main thing is to remember we are all different and what might put you to sleep might jar me awake. If you have a concern I believe you already know what to do....wait until after your trip to try the relaxer or not take it if you know it's not your answer to your problem. :-/
Blessings, Joe

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by E-Double on Apr 21^st, 2005, 4:53am

Your doctor is correct in regards to the use of triptans if you have a heart problem.....Imitrex is a Vasoconstrictor that could be of potential harm if your BP is too high

Here's what your doc presecribed.....probably useless:

http://www.drugs.com/xq/cfm/pageid_0/htm_D00965A1.htm/type_mtm/tgid_54/bn_Robaxin/qx/index.htm

This is a great resource to know like the back of your hand...print it out and give it to him

http://www.brightok.net/~mnjday/chtherapy.pdf

It will present the appropriate treatments that you should seek and your doctor should know!!!

You could also try Oxygen...
http://www.maplefallswebdesign.com/misc/oxygen/oxygen.htm

Educate your doc and/or find a CH familiar doc!

Wishing you the best !!
Best,
Eric

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by Renee on Apr 21^st, 2005, 6:22am

Most narcotics can cause rebound clusters. I have never heard of muscle relaxers causing clusters and I, for one, take a muscle relaxer. The neuro's thinking is to try and keep the neck more relaxed in hopes of lessening the quantity of clusters.

I also have no issues driving while on muscle relaxers but my system has become accustomed to the medicine. I may have been a bit drowsy the first few days when I started the rx, but I don't recall.

Imitrex for clusters is best when used in the injectable form so a sufferer gets relief quickly. Using trex as a preventative? Not something I would do to my heart and if I got hit after using for prevent what then? I would save the trex for aborts.

As mentioned, o2 is excellent as an abortive.

I would suggest you read up and get back with your neurologist as everybody is different with different needs and other medical issues.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by supcomm on Apr 21^st, 2005, 9:12am

Wow, as always, you guys have lots of good ideas and info. That's something I remember from three years ago.

Thanks guys!

Took a little more Riboxin (sp) this morning...it tastes awful, even in pill form, and it doesn't seem to be making me drowsy yet.

Of course, the beast is out there, waiting...probably wants to show up about 11:00 am.

Well, it's off to work I go...time to drive four hours to Clovis, NM for two days...here goes nothin'...

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by Gator on Apr 21^st, 2005, 1:32pm

Welcome home, supcomm.

Sorry to hear you have a reason to come back. Check out the links that E-Double gave you. Injectible Imitrex and O2 to abort attacks is the gold standard. There are many preventative meds that work with varying success rates. Never heard of robaxin before. It doesn't look like anything special, but I'm not a doc or pharmacist. I don't remember many people taking muscle relaxers as a ch treatment - not an effective one anyways.

That being said, there is another muscle relaxer called Baclofen that has been discussed here before. It works at the central nervous system level. Reviews were mixed at best. There is evidence that is helps some, does nothing for others and makes still others worse. Basically like every other med used to treat ch.

Good luck and get to your neuro and DEMAND O2. Have him get you set up for a regulator that does up to 15lpm and a non-rebreather mask. You can always start at the lower levels and stay there if it works, but it is nice to have the option to pump up the volume without having to go through all the time and red tape.

on 04/21/05 at 01:44:44, De_Minimis wrote:

De_Minimis, I agree with you on O2. Best thing since sliced bread. I keep a copy of my ch diagnosis, a copy of my O2 prescription and a copy of my imitrex injection prescription on me at all times when away from the house. Hadn't thought about keeping a copy of the receipt for the O2 bottle. Might be a real good idea even though I don't recall anyone here saying they had that kind of trouble.

Imitrex, however, is another story. You are obviously referring to imitrex pills and you are correct in that they take too long to work to be effective in most people. Before you discount imitrex totally, you should give the injection a try. Relief in 5 - 7 minutes for me at 3mg for most hits. Some have decent response from the nasal imitrex. For me if it works, it takes 15 to 20 minutes and the relief is not the rapid cessation of pain like with the injection, but more of a barely perceptible slow build. 20 minutes is a hell of a lot better than the 45 to 90 minutes I would have danced without it, though. I haven't experienced the rebound thing and being chronic, there is nothing to extend. My "cycle" lives on in perpetuity, even without meds.

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by court88 on Apr 25^th, 2005, 6:25pm

I take xanax at night if I get one,but can't imagine taking it in the day. I also sometimes take ambien at night. That's odd you were given a muscle relaxer for the day time!! Does the back of your neck ever hurt when your head kills???

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by Bob P on Apr 25^th, 2005, 6:36pm

There is no such thing as cluster rebounds.

Analgesics and ergots can cause rebound headaches which are not of the cluster variety.

Sometimes triptans can cause an increase in cluster frequency (but they are not rebound headaches).

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by hdido on Apr 25^th, 2005, 11:57pm

Thanks for clearing up the "Cluster rebound" Bob. I've been using diazepams and narcs for years (nothing else gave me any sort of relief), dose strictly controlled by my neuro-one develops a tolerance over time, so at least for me I can use them and function (have a full time job), but they don't work for many people and were prescribed for me as a last resort as my next home remedy was a .380 hollow point. The pain still breaks through the meds, but usually get several hours of pf time during the day. Check with your doc, maybe look into going to a pain clinic; I also found sessions with a psychologist specializing in treatment of chronic pain patients very helpful. Trying Verapamil now as a preventative, no results yet, but it has only been a few weeks. good luck (P.S.: if you take tranqs, especially during the day, not a good idea to drink alcohol.

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by Marc on Apr 26^th, 2005, 12:16pm

For what it's worth, there was a doctor with CH's who visited this site a couple of years ago. If I recall, he was a ten year sufferer.

He stumbled across some pretty good CH control while taking Robaxin for its intended purpose. He only hung around long enough to tell us that it was working well for him.

Marc

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by De_Minimis on Apr 26^th, 2005, 9:58pm

on 04/25/05 at 23:57:27, hdido wrote:

as a last resort as my next home remedy was a .380 hollow point.

With a .380, you run the risk of not completing the job and leaving yourself a vegetable. I have a .357 Sig, not an issue here. Seriously, not even funny to joke about that. I know many of us have sat there thinking, if only for a second, about the permenant option. Its not an option. Even this granddaddy of all pain is not worse than nothingness. Someday, they will figure this freak'n conditon out and we'll just have to have a little party when they do. I've got a pool, so when that day comes, party at my house (BYOB)!

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by floridian on Apr 26^th, 2005, 10:39pm

A "muscle relaxant" is a human abstraction - I am currently taking a drug for anxiety. It is a muscle relaxant. And a calcium channel blocker. And an analgesic. And a blood thinner. Don't know if it has any effect on clusters as I am not in cycle. But the fact that it is a muscle relaxant shouldn't fool anyone.

Having said that, muscle relaxants are not recognized as first string meds for CH. But let us know.

Title: Re: Muscle Relaxant? WTF?!
Post by hdido on Apr 27^th, 2005, 12:51am

The .380 solution wasn't a joke, DeMinimis, but as you wrote, I'm sure we, or many of us, think of that as a solution from time to time when the pain is really bad and won't stop. With pain, at least I know that I am alive, though due to another illness a while back I was not expected to live-woke up briefly from my unconscious state, thought about the fact that I might die and felt very peaceful and went back to sleep. When I awoke 2 days later, my first reaction, after realizing that I was in the hospital, was to call the nurse over and ask her why I wasn't in a private room as my insurance pays for one! I was happy to be alive and back to being my old nasty self (got my private room later that day). For me, suicide is NOT an option and anyone feeling like taking that final step, PLEASE tell someone, call someone, check into a hospital-nature will take us when she wants to, so there is no need to assist her. Yes, the pain is horrible at times, but it won't kill us and think of the pf times when we can have a normal life for awhile (by the way, my .380 is a Baretta, much more stylish than a Sig ;)).