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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Some comments & questions on Diets & Meds
        
(Message started by: Lili-Laura on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 3:18am)

Title: Some comments & questions on Diets & Meds
Post by Lili-Laura on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 3:18am

Neuro who diagnosed ch 10 years ago, gave me a list of no-no's which includes nuts, pulses and "C" foods - chocolate, coffee, cheese, etc. I can vouch for the nuts - if I'm in a cycle, give me cashews and it's a personal invite for the devil! Also alcohol - BIG no-no! Not even cough medicine containing alcohol. Not even a sip of a cooler from my boyfriend.

Are there any other know no-no's?

Then meds? Imitrex nose drops - good or bad? Please consider before replying - I'm seriously strapped for cash - I can't afford meds that don't work or sometimes work. I've had Maxalt in the past, but it's a 40/60 thing - 60% doesn't abort. I am sorry, but I can't deal with hawkers - sorry again, I don't mean to insult anyone, but I can't afford to waste money on "chili spray" or "some mysterious mixture of essential oils with added who-knows-what". I, out of desperation bought 10 cafergot tablets, but my pharmacist couldn't tell me how to use it, so I am taking 1 in the morning, in the hope it will act as a preventative. How do I get the most out of my last 6 cagergot tabs?

I firmly believe in my 02, but don't have a protable tank, so I can only use it at home & currently the attacks happen midday when I'm at work, which I find the embarrassment is sometimes worse to bear than the pain! I am a shy person & detest the attention!

Some useless info which I'm sure you all know - certain beats in music - normally the same repetative beat, florecent light flashing (like just before it stops working), change in season, shadows over the road while driving, movies - specially with flashing lights like action. Being in the car seems to bring on attacks, even when I'm not driving. Any other everyday triggers to look out for?

Title: Re: Some comments & questions on Diets & M
Post by sandie99 on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 3:23am

CH doesn't have similar list of no-nos like migraine does by in my case any food with lots of salt can trigger CH.

Best wishes,
Sandie

Title: Re: Some comments & questions on Diets & M
Post by floridian on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 12:06pm

Diet's effect on clusters is controversial - some go so far as to say it has no effect for the most part, except for a few isolated triggers that vary from person to person.

One of your fellow South African citizens (jmorgan52) claims that he can break a cycle with a detox diet, and I think he may be on to something. Here are some excerpts of what he has written:

Quote:

I have no idea how it really works, but it does. I do not wish to follow a vegetarian diet long term as it really sucks. The detox diet is even worse! I "try" and follow the diet whenever I get signs that the HA season is starting. For me that is a long build up of daily mild HA that resolve into full blown clusters after a month or so. I don't always have the will to start the diet because of social and other reasons. Last christmas I ignored the signs because I did not want to "spoil" the enjoyment of the festive season and had tyo endure 3 weeks of CH pain kept under control with 1/2 doses of Imigran injections at the first onset. I started the diet a few days after new year and had a lousy "detox" week before the HA stopped.

...

For 3 days I daily drink a 2 litre water mixture of pulp of apple, grape, orange, prune, lemon, soya, juniper berry, algae, horseradish, carrot, star aniseed, cumin, cloves. I sip this during the day and actually quite like the spicy taste. Days 4-7 I drink 2 litres of water.

Diet is ok for a short time but there is no pleasure involved! Bland, steamed or stir fry veg and fresh fruit. No dairy, meat, sweet, carbs, no coffee, tea, alchohol etc.

Right now I have had what feels like a tension HA for the past 24 hours (same as normal for me on the detox) and my whole body is aching like I've been beaten up. I know this will pass in a few more days and then I will have many months of feeling good again.

I have to say that at 52 years old and a migraine/HA/CH sufferer for most of my life with nothing that really helped for most of the time (until imigran inj in 1995) when I stumbled on the detox it was just short of a miracle for me. I now know it will never be a cure as I still get my cycles, but being able to break the cycle in about 5 days without drugs offers me some hope.

I am speculating that fasting or a detox diet can have a effect on the hypothalamus similar to lithium or valproic acid. In particular, lithium and fasting both upregulate the erk/mapk pathways in the hypothalamus.

Quote:

Drug News Perspect. 2003 Sep;16(7):453-63. Related Articles, Links

Possible involvement of the ERK signaling cascade in bipolar disorder: behavioral leads from the study of mutant mice.

Einat H, Manji HK, Gould TD, Du J, Chen G.

Laboratory of Molecular Pathophysiology, National Institute of Mental Health, National Institutes of Health, Department of Health and Human Services, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-4405, USA. einath@intra.nimh.nih.gov

Despite the devastating impact that bipolar disorder has on the lives of millions worldwide, little is known for certain about its etiology or pathophysiology. Whereas research has traditionally focused on biogenic amines, it is becoming increasingly more apparent that intracellular pathways are involved in the etiology and treatment of the disease and that a true understanding of the pathophysiology of bipolar disorder must address its neurobiology at different physiological levels, that is, molecular, cellular, systems and behavioral levels. There is now considerable biochemical evidence that the antimanic agents lithium and valproate robustly activate the ERK signaling cascade in therapeutically relevant paradigms. ...

Quote:

J Neuroendocrinol. 2004 Feb;16(2):105-12.

Fasting-induced activation of mitogen-activated protein kinases (ERK/p38) in the mouse hypothalamus.

Morikawa Y, Ueyama E, Senba E. Department of Anatomy and Neurobiology, Wakayama Medical University, Kimiidera, Wakayama, Japan.

Activity-dependent changes in neuronal plasticity depend critically on gene regulation. To understand how fasting-induced stimulation leads to gene regulation through intracellular signalling pathways, we investigated the effect of fasting on activation of the mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) family, the extracellular signal-regulated kinase (ERK) and the p38 MAPK (p38) in mouse hypothalamus. In the hypothalamic arcuate nucleus, phosphorylation of ERK significantly increased during fasting, spatially coincident with phosphorylation of cAMP response element binding protein (CREB), induction of c-Fos, and expression of neuropeptide Y (NPY). In the paraventricular nucleus (PVN) of fasted mice, activation of p38 in addition to ERK was also observed. In the arcuate nucleus of ob/ob mice, phosphorylations of ERK and CREB were decreased during fasting, whereas the expression of NPY was increased. In the PVN, increased activation of p38 was observed in spite of decreased activation of ERK. These results suggest that ERK and p38 are differentially activated by fasting in distinct regions of the hypothalamus depending on the condition of energy balance.

Title: Re: Some comments & questions on Diets & M
Post by vig on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 12:29pm

Auto fumes, regular and diesel, household CHemicals like bleaCH and ammonia....

Air vents, hot or cold... blowing directly on me.

Too muCH direct sunlight

Those are my triggers.

uh, and coffee's not a no-no, it's a yes, please... more

Title: Re: Some comments & questions on Diets & M
Post by E-Double on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 12:29pm

Hiya Laura,
To be honest I do not know of anything dietary that effects my cycle or can trigger an attack......

As far as meds go..for some reason there appears to be higher rates in aborting HA with some triptans over others

Regarding your Oxygen......If it works so well..Why not get a script or atleast a letter for necessity from doctor for portables.E-tanks or D tanks (D's can fit into a backpack) for insurance.or is insurance the problem....

There are ways around this if so.....I'm sure others will jump in.

Floridian is a wise man that I learned a lot regarding suppliments to use for CH....

Good luck!!

E

Title: Re: Some comments & questions on Diets & M
Post by Karla on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 12:37pm

I have triggers for my migraines but NONE for my ch.