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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 Cluster Headache Specific Posts >> Definition of shadows wanted
        
(Message started by: Svenn on Jan 28^th, 2005, 12:31pm)

Title: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by Svenn on Jan 28^th, 2005, 12:31pm

This subject was on the canadian board some days ago.and my reply on that

Yess what is the definition of shadows

depends on your pain threshold.

Some cant stand pain at all and will claim a kip 1 a major hit and then we have those on the other side of that

My PERSONAL opinion of that subject is that anything under a kip 5 can be called a shadow.BUT then again thats just me

Anyone have something to say on the subject?

The very best from Svenn

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by nani on Jan 28^th, 2005, 12:35pm

For me...shadows last longer and are "duller". A k5 shadow comes on a little slower and doesn't stop me in my tracks. A k5 hit comes on fast and will cause me to really pay attention with it's "sharp", stabbing, pain.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by BlueMeanie on Jan 28^th, 2005, 3:03pm

I agree with the actual KIP scale. K1-K3 is just that. (A shadow). You can feel the pain beginning to flair up, the eye starts to get red, teeth begin to feel swollen, but you can handle it without pacing. At that point it's just annoying, but yet scary because you know the attack is on the way.

Once you get to (KIP4) it is no longer a shadow but heading towards a major attack. I don't see how a KIP5 can be either a shadow, or a hit. Maybe because i'm episodic. To me, if you're pacing it's a hit if your not it's a shadow. Dunno

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by nani on Jan 28^th, 2005, 3:32pm

Blue...I can get a k-5 shadow that lasts 1-3 hours and it never gets any higher... I can pace and quasi function. The hits can stay at 5 or go higher in minutes. I usually hit the O2 at a sharp 4...sometimes it works, sometimes not. I guess I could describe the difference by saying a hit is like being stabbed in your nose and out your eye...a shadow is like having a baseball slowly pounded in behind your eye. And it just sits there.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jan 28^th, 2005, 9:22pm

Blue meanie, I agree, if I am not pacing and cursing, I don't consider it to be an attack. Yesterday I had shadows and ghosts all day. I still worked and was fine the whole day.
PF wishes
BMonee

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by marcelonyc on Jan 28^th, 2005, 11:34pm

For me, when any sign appears my body reacts first, sometimes before i am willing to acknowledge consciencely so that I will catch myself holding my head, blocking the light, or a mini dance in cross legged sit position (?). It seems since I have started the lithium I don't go beyond a 5. When I say my body reacts is that I become very tense and eventhough it's obvious one is on it's way, i go through denial and therefore unwilling to admit the possibility to myself. Foolish I know, but it's part of my dance.

This cycle has been nipped so that all I get are 3 with occasional 4or5. I would compare it to having shadows in between a heavy session. One year, i think I had 9 h/a or so @ 10+kip. There was no real relief, only momentsof shadows which were still hell. But becuse i have not experienced the intensity of a 10 in a few months, the level 3-5 remind me of shadows and they (cross fingers) have not been steamrolling beyond. I'm lucky.

Does this make any senses to ya??

marcelo

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by don on Jan 29^th, 2005, 9:19am

Those long black things on the sidewalk that follow you around all day.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/newvisitors.html#acronyms

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by toolong on Jan 29^th, 2005, 10:40am

I think shadows are in the eye of the beholder.Seriously I live with shadows 24/7. When they start cranking up to say a kip 4 or above my left eye will start tearing and nose will become stuffy.Thats the tip off that I'm on my way to a kick ass CH.I'll run to my 02 and take my usual hit. Before I was chronic my shadows were in the kip 2-3 range but now it seems to be a tad more severe.I guess as you research,you'll find everybody is different.Good luck [smiley=thumbsup.gif]David

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by guesst on Jan 29^th, 2005, 6:41pm

For me a shadow is pain in my ch "area" that is very dull and distracting, but hangs around all day. Like migraine type duration.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by catlind on Jan 29^th, 2005, 7:47pm

For me a shadow is more to do with what *isn't* happening than what is. An attack is an acute flare that encompasses all the autonomic symptoms, and a shadow, and the pain level for a shadow can vary, but I almost never get nasal congestion with a shadow (or the ensuing runny nose) I will get the flush and sometimes the tearing, but mostly it will be the lack of autonomic features that defines a shadow to an attack for me.

Cat

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by BarbaraD on Jan 30^th, 2005, 7:31am

Svenn, I agree with the 3-4Kip as a shadow. I live with those most of the time. I consider that pain free time. When it cranks up to a 5-6, I know an attack is coming. At about an 8 I take something.

Lately I've been getting hit with "icepicks" just to keep things interesting.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by Magick on Jan 30^th, 2005, 10:40am

For me a shadow is like a long (1-1 1/2 hr dull kip3-5) I get these every night starting about the same time. The "Hits" come in the very early morning right after I go to sleep and wake me up. Somtimes I'll get hit throught the day/night as well. No real pattern to anything but the shadows.

Trying to abort a shadow with o2 is pointless because it will come back as soon as I stop. With a "hit" o2 aborts and it stays away. Using trex with a shadow causes a nasty rebound.

Took me a while to tell the diffrence at first but now I know when to not jump the gun with o2 or trex for a shadow.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by PrettyH8Machine on Jan 30^th, 2005, 7:58pm

on 01/30/05 at 07:31:50, BarbaraD wrote:

Barbara - check out CPH. I get that anywhere for 10 times a day to 10 times an hour. Lasts about 4-6 seconds and is gone. Kind of like a mini cluster zap.
I also have something funky where when I bend over, as soon as my head reaches a certain altitude, it feels like someone is smacking me in the back of the head.
For me, I shadow non-stop 1-2, but it gets up to the kip 3 or 4 at times.

CD

My definition of a shadow is a dull ache in the temple and the eye, with the sensation something is pulling the eye from behind and the temple is twisting a bit.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by TonyG1 on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 8:14pm

Had shadows all day yesterday with icepicks from time to time ... for me they are there in the background but I'm still functional .... I was afraid it would lead to a full blown attack last evening [smiley=bomb.gif]while I was asleep but the verapamil (verelin PM) did its job [smiley=sleep.gif]... PF night and actually got some sleep ....

Best regards to all !!

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by clarence on Feb 2^nd, 2005, 10:31pm

I agree with nani and guesst. Shadows, in my world, are different than an attack, not just a less intense attack. My shadows last hours and hours. My attacks are shorter, hit faster and, hurt more intensely.

Shadows are the crap in my head. They are driving my crazy. Insane...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! They follow me, never letting me get away, speaking to me...

They say: pain...pain...hurt...

Casey

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by Night_Zombie on Feb 3^rd, 2005, 11:50am

At the moment for me shadows just wont go away, a dull pain that is with me all of the time at about 2/3,when my ear starts to get sore and my eye starts to pound I know its starting to get up to the next stage. If I have had a bad night 3/4 hits at about 9/10, I get no rest from the pain at all, the shadows seem to go up the pain scale to about 5/6 for the rest of the night/day. All I can say it really sucks :'(

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by Frank_W on Feb 3^rd, 2005, 3:40pm

If you have shadows, it means six more weeks of winter.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by nani on Feb 3^rd, 2005, 3:42pm

on 02/03/05 at 15:40:25, Frank_W wrote:

If you have shadows, it means six more weeks of winter.

[smiley=laugh.gif] I have 'em everyday, dammit...The winter of my life, isn't it. :-/

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by kissmyglass on Feb 3^rd, 2005, 11:19pm

on 01/30/05 at 19:58:59, PrettyH8Machine wrote:

I also have something funky where when I bend over,

CD

More info than we need dude..... ;;D

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by SLanegan on Feb 9^th, 2005, 12:20pm

A shadow is always with me.....a dull throb on the left side of my head, slightly pushing my temple outward with a buzz behind my left eye. I know when the shadow is going to turn into an attack. Its like a light switch is turned on inside my head.........then within minutes the shadows turn into the pain direct from hell!!!!!!

Shadows always remind me that the devil hasn't gone away but is taking his fricken nap, waiting until I take mine!!!!

Sean

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by Frank_W on Feb 9^th, 2005, 12:24pm

on 01/29/05 at 18:41:16, guesst wrote:

For me a shadow is pain in my ch "area" that is very dull and distracting, but hangs around all day. Like migraine type duration.

Ditto. Also, in the eight years that I have suffered with CH, I never experienced shadows until I used injectable Imitrex, during my last cycle.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by vig on Feb 9^th, 2005, 1:56pm

shadows are when the beastard is lurking in the bushes... I know it's there, but it doesn't hurt so much to be incapacitating... Sometimes cycles start out slow with mild twinges... (like today) and I call them shadows. Sometimes after brutal attacks, I feel pain all day and I call them shadows too.

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by Tiannia on Feb 9^th, 2005, 3:58pm

on 01/29/05 at 18:41:16, guesst wrote:

For me a shadow is pain in my ch "area" that is very dull and distracting, but hangs around all day. Like migraine type duration.

I have to agree with this definition and Nani. A shadow for me can be an all day thing. I can feel the pressure, the dull annoying ache between my ear and eye. I can start to get red. People at my old job used to ask when they would see my left ear (yes my CH side) go bright read. My left eye will start to feel strained. (to explain I wear glasses and it will feel like I was on the computer all day without them).

The part that I think is the hardest is that the longer it lasts to worse I know the hit will be. This is where I agree with Nani. That there are different levels of shadows. Like it slowly builds up to hit me harder. And when I am in the high end of my chronic cycle, the shadows will stay between the hits. Then I know that I am in for a rough night. When after I get done with a k8 and the shadows are still there, it is like "Fuck didn't you just put me through enough?"

The kip scale helps other people to understand what I am talking about. Luckily I am in a back office and dont get bugged much at my new office. But I already have warned them that I have CH and given my boss the letter to co-workers so that he is not blindsided if I get a full attack at work.

Luckly, my HA's have not gone back up to the level that I was at before. I am getting hit daily, but it is only 1 to 2 a day. This is week 4 of that. So I hope that is a good sign. I am not looking forward to ramping up again.

-Tia

Title: Re: Definition of shadows wanted
Post by Tiannia on Feb 9^th, 2005, 3:59pm

on 02/09/05 at 13:56:42, vig wrote:

Sometimes after brutal attacks, I feel pain all day and I call them shadows too.

yep Paul - I think you said it better them me.