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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> Need help from someone who knows trees, etc. 
        
(Message started by: burnt-toast on Dec 11^th, 2005, 8:30am)

Title: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by burnt-toast on Dec 11^th, 2005, 8:30am

***POSTED - NO TRESSPASSING*** Ever wonder why?

One of the folks that knows me and has permission to hunt my property stopped by the house yesterday to give me some really f**ked up news.

Some flaming Idiot(s) decided it would be a spiffy idea to build a permanent tree stand in the largest and oldest Maple tree on my property. It's massive - 40'+ straight up before branching and would take 3 of me hand in hand to hug it's base (and I have a better than 6' wingspan). I won't even try to estimate the timber value but that's not the issue.

I'm no tree hugger and was going to selectively log out some mature trees soon but would never have allowed anyone to touch this tree. This/these morons drove 12" spikes about 5" to 6" into the tree to make a ladder and constructed a platform in the branches. The tree will die in a few years if nothing is done. Making matters worse the Idiot(s) cut down several maturing trees that surrounded it to make sure they improved their field of view.

Obviously I am going to attempt to save this tree. I was thinking of removing the platform and spikes and filling all nail holes with spray foam to keep insects out.

Does anyone know of a slap-hammer attachment that can grip and pull large spikes straight out? If I have to design one is someone out there able to make it?

If you know anything about trees, is there a better material than spray foam to fill the holes?

Does anyone know a site or organization that could help me avoid doing more damage when attempting to correct this Asinine Act of Stupidity?

I guess I'm going to have to look for other trees that may have been vandalized as well. I always said I would never post the property but between picking up trash that so-called sportsman leave behind and now this, hunters around here may be in for a big dissappointment next year.

Tom

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by purpleydog on Dec 11^th, 2005, 8:59am

As far as gripping the spikes and pulling them out, get some vise-grips, grab the spikes and lock them, then hit the vise-grips with a hammer to dislodge the spikes. It they are through the lumber then into the tree, it shouldn't be too hard to grab them. I don't know about filling the holes, though.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by burnt-toast on Dec 11^th, 2005, 9:09am

on 12/11/05 at 08:59:46, purpleydog wrote:

Thanks,

We tried vise-grips/hammering/24"crowbar and block of wood.

Unfortunately these are just very large spikes driven right into the tree and used as steps. Not enough leverage/grip to pull without something that will back cut into the spike for grip, while being able to hammer directly back (in-line) with the spike.

Tom

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Jimmy B. on Dec 11^th, 2005, 9:19am

I can't really help you with the spikes...other then saying...just be careful pulling them out...and if it's next to impossible...it might just be better to leave them. Any open wound may act as a point of entry for fungi, which can kill any tree, also, as you said...it's an excellent entranceway for wood-eating insects. Although a squirrel is more likely to make a home. Which is not a bad thing.

As for foam...trees twist and bend a lot in ways not compatible with insulation foam. Also sealing the hole will trap moisture and fungal organisms inside the tree.

Your best bet is to glue a metal screen or plastic hardware cloth over the area using flexible surface adhesive. Check the screen once or twice a year. If you feel you must completely fill the holes, you can also use a urethane or polyurethane foam to fill it, then cover it with a screen.

If it's really worth it...call an arborist or tree doctor.

Good luck.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by pattik on Dec 11^th, 2005, 11:09am

I agree with Jimmy on this one. The tree might be better off leaving the spikes in. But no matter what, I would find the best arborist you can get in your area to consult on this. I would also take some steps to find and prosecute the scumbags who did this to your property.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by burnt-toast on Dec 11^th, 2005, 11:39am

Thanks Jimmy B., Pattik - but I've seen what galvanized spikes do to trees. There's a crap load of dead trees with these spikes in em' on surrounding properties. If I don't get them removed/filled the tree will die in just a few years. I haven't had much luck finding anthing online and will need to contact an arborist.

I've already contacted the PA Game Commission - they have more enforcement power and can act faster for Game Law violations (and this is one) than going to the police or prosecuting for tresspassing/vandalism.

I now have a first name of the person that may be responsible and know he's a local. The real kicker is that I helped his son get a deer this year (actually put him in one of my ladder stands) and then let him and his father drive through my property to get the deer out instead of making them drag it up 1000's of feet of hillside to their house.

Tom

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Cathi04 on Dec 11^th, 2005, 11:42am

Please, Toast, get a good arborist. One of our trees was damaged by a drunk driver. All he did was knock off some of the bark, but the ins company sent out an arborist who, over the past 2 yrs, and for the next 3 years, is monitoring it's condition.
I know this guy used so special formula to seal the tree, and it sure wasnt insulation foam.
I say find the perpetrator and make HIM responsible for the arborist's bill!
>:(Mean People Suck-especially when they are messing with someone else's property!

Cathi

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Opus on Dec 11^th, 2005, 11:57am

There is a special paint to seal the holes, don't use foam. Holes are usually no big deal, maple trees get drilled every year. There is the maple blight to be concerned about but I don't think the holes will make a difference. I have seen both tapped and untapped maple trees die from it. Get professional help and build a barb wire fence around it, and plant some kind of thorny bush around it ( make sure they are safe for the tree first), around here wild roses keep me from getting to many trees I need to cut down.

Opus/Paul

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by maffumatt on Dec 11^th, 2005, 2:02pm

spikes dont hurt trees to much just look at trees with barbwire that the tree has grown around. Takeing them out will cause more harm. What I would do is go up with a hacksaw and cut through a couple spiles leaveing around a 1/16 of an inch around 20 foot up and buy some purple paint to paint your boundry every 30 feet.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by MJ on Dec 11^th, 2005, 4:04pm

Not a tree hugger either but
I also have a lot of high value trees I sell on occasion.

I was gonna suggest leaving the spikes too, but then you said they were galvanized.
Bare iron generally wont hurt a tree and the tree will grow around it. Something in the galvanizing, magnesium I think, does kill a tree.

Get a 4 or 6 foot crow bar with a good plate under the butt.
You can also drill around the spikes to loosen the hold.
You can seal the wounds with a latex caulk or maple or pine pitch. Regardless the commercial value of the tree is virtually gone.

I lost a real nice 100 plus year old red oak the same way. I posted and electrified the whole perimeter 2 years ago. Still they come.
I no longer critter hunt just inconsiderate type hunter hunt.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by lionsound on Dec 11^th, 2005, 5:05pm

Here in Maine from our state university we have an extension service that will make a house call. I don't know what's available in your area but a local university or agriculture school may have some ideas.

Also if they tap trees for syrup near you there may be someone very local with good info about the tree.

We tap at our house, but maple taps(often plastic now) which don't go in too far and giant spikes seem quite different.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by burnt-toast on Dec 11^th, 2005, 6:05pm

Cathi, Paul, maffumatt, MJ, lionsound:

I Appreciate the input - A good Arborist is #1 priority - before I do anything - and I will also talk with some local universities. I hope someone can get me pointed in the right direction because I don't want to do further damage. It is truely a massive tree and the oldest on the on the property - I hope to save it.

There are between 60 and 70 Galvanized spikes + whatever crap used to build the platform. You're absolutely right MJ - Galvanized steel kills/poisons a tree in just a few years.

I can't believe someone was stupid enough to do this on someone elses property, let alone pick this tree. I'm furious with the lack of respect for property where free access is permitted.

A lot of property has been posted here in the last few years. Everyone bitches about these "greedy landowners", but they don't see the crap that the owner deals with. I know it's not everyone, but I'm thoroughly disgusted and have already bought "No Tresspassing" signs. If I don't find out who did this they are going up.

Tom

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by cootie on Dec 11^th, 2005, 10:30pm

That would of jus pissed me off to NO END !!! I'd be stubborn enuff to sit up in that dam tree waitin for em to come back and scare the shit out of them. Course gettin shot could be an issue scarein people with loaded guns. Neighbors used to hunt up on one of the tall hills behind our house or let friends hunt and they'd shoot at stuff and the dam bullets would come down here and hit our roof or ricochet around the tree's. Got hit with buckshot many a time. Brad drove up there one day mad as hell and scared the crap out of them boys. Tree shrugger Pam

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by forgetfulnot on Dec 11^th, 2005, 11:11pm

If you know anything about trees, is there a better material than spray foam to fill the holes?

Just leave them alone, they will heal on their own and other so called treatments will only cause problems.

How many maple trees have been logged for syrup with no ill effect?

Lee

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by burnt-toast on Dec 12^th, 2005, 8:46am

Cootie, I would wait for someone to climb into the stand if it was still during the season. Unfortunately, the season closed last Saturday so I'm not going to have that option and hopefully I'll have the mess cleaned up before next season.

forgetfulnot, A lot of the things I have been reading indicate that pulling the spikes and allowing the tree to heal over the holes by itself is the best option.

But I will consult with an arborist before I even pull the spikes. I just need to come up with a method for pulling them straight out and avoiding additional damage.

Tom

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by jimmers on Dec 12^th, 2005, 11:33am

Tom,

Sorry to hear about this, unfortunately a few jagoffs like these guys make everyone look bad! Then they wonder why people like you and me who own land post it for no trespassing. >:( I have pulled many a spike from trees on my property left there from the previous owner with some success. If the spikes are not in to deep and can be removed, what I usually do is fill the holes with untreated dowel rods cut off flush with the trunk and then us a non-toxic tar and smear it over the end to keep the bugs out. Seems to work quite well.

Lemme know,

Jimmers

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by alchemy on Dec 12^th, 2005, 11:39am

another mainer here, we use tar to fill the holes, beeswax also works. we've been at war with not a very nice persons who come on our property and do whatever they want. someone actually built a hunting cabin right in plain view of the no tresspass sign. it made a nice fire thogh

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Ghost on Dec 12^th, 2005, 12:18pm

As far as the holes, Beeswax will do the best.

As far as removing the spikes do it soon and drill 1/4 inch hole top bottom and each side as deep as the spikes, hit in each dir and it should pop out pretty easy.
As far as the idiots, that could be alot of fun. you can get pretty cheap at radio shack a video camera setup for outdoors that is wireless, the reciever end will detect motion and is adjustable to block normal background movement, hook it to a buzzer or something attention getting and have rocksalt loads ready to hunt the idiots right outta the tree. the batteries for the camera will usually only last about a month so have spares ready. also most of the wireless cameras are line of sight, so if distance is to far it may not work. you can also check with security companies and buy old broken cameras with housings set them up very visable to deter and post signs area is under video survalence(sp). some some things I have done that work for more ideas im me and ill try to help ok.

Mike

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by cootie on Dec 12^th, 2005, 12:57pm

By the way........I had a tree co look at a huge tree out front close to our house that is so old and big it is probly 20 times taller then our two story house !! It's a maple......huge base but has split areas in the middle where half grows towards the house and other huge part towards the road. I have had alot of concern's of it actually SPLITTING down the middle and half fallin on the roof. Even tho it is very close to the house (about 20 foot) it is tall enuff for that part to be VERY heavy.....loads or branches and the leaves BURY this house....no joke either !! They told me that messin with certain types of mapes WILL kill them and they felt if they tried to cut half the tree leaning this way the entire tree would die ? I don't know what do do cuz I don't want to kill it but I don't want killed by it either. I have seen several tree's similar to it split and fall on houses ect the past couple of years. The tree did die a few years back....so they said......they were out here workin on trees under the power lines again and I asked them what was wrong with it. It had hardly NO LEAVES that year what so ever. What few it did have were teeny tiny. So we talked about havein to have it totally cut. Never got around to it that next summer and the tree CAME BACK !! A tree specialist told me it was DEAD just about dead when he looked it over for me !! So........just remember all that. This tree has spikes in it for tire swings and wind chimes (barn spikes) and all sorts of stuff and some it grew over. It is ONE HEALTHY ASS TREE as of rite now. I still have concern's about the one half tho and think sumthin has to be done.....they said trimmin it could kill it also. What about all the branches fallin on the house and in the yard and damaged trees from a freak tornado years ago that skimmed over the hills and knocked trees down and snapped some in half and SHREDDED all the maples. They had NO BRANCHES left all twisted around the trees. They were nothin but big poles. You should see those trees NOW.......full branches and leaves again 5 years later and taller and wider then ever !!! Experts aren't always the expert Pam

I'd DEFINELTY be keepin an eye out for people doin that shit next season. Some think jus because it is vast and open land they can do WHAT THEY WANT. Squat'r hunters I call em.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 13^th, 2005, 3:52pm

Ah c'mom, the thing would have been dead in a couple hundred years anyways ::)

You don't mind if they shoot and kill everything that walks and breaths on your property as long as they don't poke a hole in your tree??

Maple makes great firewood, and furniture. ;;D

Just trying to think up all the answers the hunters that do these things would have been saying since they aren't posting ;-)

I thought the best idea was cutting them through about 90% about 20 feet in the air. problem would be getting the stumps out of the tree after they break off. The body woud most likely decompose within a year or so.

Unless the arborist has a better idea, or tool, here's what I'd do. Although the biggest problem will probably be working at these heights. Might be a two man deal. Can you rent a small (30 footer) tow-behind bucket?
Use about a 24+ inch monkey wrench and twist the spike around a few times to loosen it up. Set the head of the wrench up against the backside of the head, and tap on the head of the wrench, to pull it out of the tree.
If there isn't enough room between the wrench and tree to tap it......use a (large) pair of side cutters. Clamp tightly against the base of the spike with the jaws slightly angled into the tree. As you twist the spike with the monkey wrench, the cutting action of the side cutters (held tightly by guy number 2) should act as a threading device and pull the spike out like a screw.

Don't use a drill unless you're in a bucket IMHO. With the bit digging into wood and bouncing against steel, it'll jam for sure and twist your a s s right off that ladder. (This image comes to me from years of hiring not-so-bright employees)

Then again, if you find out who did it, make HIM figure it out or he could probably be charged with felony damage to personal property.

If you do find out who did it, let us know which of the top three answers (excuses) he gave.

Bobw

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Melissa on Dec 13^th, 2005, 3:59pm

man, this is more worse than getting a root canal [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by MJ on Dec 13^th, 2005, 6:03pm

What pinkfloyd said
"Use about a 24+ inch monkey wrench and twist the spike around a few times to loosen it up. Set the head of the wrench up against the backside of the head, and tap on the head of the wrench, to pull it out of the tree".

Incidentally this may work well for cluster headaches as well.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Ghost on Dec 14^th, 2005, 9:58am

If the spikes are straight and you are steady with the drill al a low speed, use a 1/4" bit approx 3-4 inch in lenght you will have no problem drilling along side the spikes. what pink said using the wrench should work also and be a little less damaging to the tree. but which ever way you remove them be careful because you still have a great poss of loosing balance. bucket deffinately the way to go. By the way I am a hunter that already posted but I dont private property without permission and would never damage it even if was told i could hunt there. I am sure 99% of true hunters would agree. But like all groups there is a few who just dont care, and need to be banned from such things, but unfortunately they always sneak away b4 getting caught.

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by burnt-toast on Dec 14^th, 2005, 11:28am

Pink - I'll be curious to hear the excuses flow if I catch the person that did this.

Talked with the Game Commission - they will prosecute for game violations and for compensation but only it I catch the person in the stand. We have a few week extension to our doe season here and they recommend waiting until after this season before removing the stand/spikes in the hope that the person responsible uses it during the extended season. So I'll be watching.

In the meantime they put me in touch with the local Conservation District who will will work with me to assess the damage and help correct it if possible.

There's not a chance of getting a bucket truck of any kind to the site. I'm going to have to carry a 40" ladder back in there which in itself is going to be interesting. In the meantime I'm making a list of things to try when removing the spikes. Thanks everyone - keep the ideas flowing.

BTW - The deer population here is completly out of control. Deer nubmers have grossly exceeded the carrying capacity of the land. This makes for great hunting - we basically eats deer meat year round and buy very little beef/pork, but it is really an ecological disaster. During this winter, deer will eat nearly every new sapling that sprouted in the woods this year.

Lots of new surrounding development is pushing deer into the remaining argricultural areas where they concentrate in large numbers. When I walk into the woods with new snow in the morning - my tracks are virtuallly oblitherated by deer tracks by the time I come back out in the evenings. I believe they've actually started using my tracks to avoid having to walk through deep snow.

The Anti's agenda is terribly flawed - hunting for meat/ popultation control isn't a problem - it's uncontrolled development and urban sprawl/loss of natural habitat they need to focus their attention on. But I guess it's easier to attack hunting than it is to go after wealthy developers and greedy municipalities.

Tom

Title: Re: Need help from someone who knows trees, etc.
Post by Rock_Lobster on Dec 14^th, 2005, 11:48am

Take a camera... get a pic or two of the not a very nice person in it.

Get an adjuster and a tree professional (nursey? arborist?) to obtain an estimate of what it will cost to REPLACE the trees. The number will far exceed $25k.

Get the police involved, not the game commission. Since the damage is of such a high dollar value, we are talking a felony here.

If you cannot catch the guy, then put out a reward. Hunters love to brag to each other about their stands and such. Put a $2500 or $5000 reward for the prosecution of the bitch who did this... his buddies will sell him out pretty fast for that.

Then the fun part... sue the guy. Sue him for the reward money. Sue him for the REPLACEMENT value of the trees.

For giggles, some night kill every tree on his property. Easy to obtain chemicals will do the trick... google is your friend. A gallon jug or two and a 2AM stroll around his house is all it takes. Might as well toss something on his pickup truck to make it shed it' paint while you are at it. Revenge feels great.

/my brother has PA land right next to state game lands
//helped him exact revenge on two occasions thus far