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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> Bad Religion
        
(Message started by: floridian on Sep 30^th, 2005, 4:15pm)

Title: Bad Religion
Post by floridian on Sep 30^th, 2005, 4:15pm

Less religious societies have far fewer social ills - from abortion and STDs to murder. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C2-1798944%2C00.html

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by vig on Sep 30^th, 2005, 4:44pm

IMHO, the church still has some 'splainin' to do regarding Cardinal Law and the scandal.

There are many decent, wonderful religious people out there, but they're being led by fools.... and being exploited.

my $.02

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by E-Double on Sep 30^th, 2005, 5:00pm

Thought you meant the band.......one of my faves

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Jonny on Sep 30^th, 2005, 5:04pm

on 09/30/05 at 16:44:21, vig wrote:

IMHO, the church still has some 'splainin' to do regarding Cardinal Law and the scandal.

Yep, Bernie should be doing a shit load of time in jail right now....What a scumbag that fuck is!!

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Lizzie2 on Sep 30^th, 2005, 5:06pm

Well that's certainly very interesting. Not sure how I feel about it as yet...but interesting nonetheless.

I drifted away from the Catholic church I suppose by the end of high school or start of college - one or the other. I went to school at Penn State, which is actually smack in the Bible Belt of Pennsylvania. In the beginning, because I did not drink (and never had), I tried to join up with various religious groups to meet other people who felt the way I did - such as Navigators and some other groups that held Friday night worship sessions, etc. I went to a Catholic one once on a Tuesday night, and they actually made up an additional chapter of the Bible where various people in Jesus' life had a chance to say goodbye to him. My friend and I sat there with our jaws practically on the floor because of that, and all the people speaking in tongues. I never ever went to Catholic services on campus at Penn State again. If I wanted to go to Catholic mass, I went to an off campus church once I had my car there. Throughout much of my time there, I went to a Methodist church that I could walk to - and really enjoyed that.

As some know, I was in a choir called Essence of Joy at Penn State - which is a choir in the African and African-American tradition. We sang gospel, spiritual and traditional African music. Although the purpose of the choir was not at all to convert people to a religion (we had people who were atheist, jewish, christian, etc all in the choir and gaining meaning out of it) - the choir essentially became my religion. We performed in almost every type of Christian church out there - spending quite a bit of time performing in Baptist churches - which I absolutely loved. We went to services when we were at churches on the weekend. We always sing as part of the services - which we even do at a Presbyterian church near my home - they go there every other year.

I couldn't have gotten through Penn State without that. It was a very deep spiritual and religious connection which was very centering.

So I dunno - guess I've seen religion do damage and wonderful things in my own life - yet the wonderful things don't come from any organized religion really. I consider myself to be a spiritual person rather than a religious person. I draw my morals from my inner self - I do believe in Christian beliefs - but I'm also a believer in Evolution and the power of science behind our existance. I guess I take a bit of things from everywhere! I dunno.

But yeah - I've seen lots and lots of people who were very very religious in their families go absolutely ape shit when getting to college because of the fact that they're finally "free." There's constant discussion about children in very strict and/or religious families just going nuts in college because they aren't used to freedom and making their own choices because they've basically been forced to be "good" their entire lives. There's also the discussion that some very religious people marry very early to get around the "no sex before marriage" issue.

Who knows. Many sides to this story! Thanks for sharing the article anyways!

Carrie

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by sassy_lady on Sep 30^th, 2005, 5:11pm

I have to say that I beleave in God & Have asked Jesus in to my life. I don't beleave what people say, I beleave What I Read In the Good Book (Bible) & I pray about the things I do!! The lord shows me in many ways his answers!! The lord has never led me in the wrong way !!
we ( My Husband Charlie & I ) have left a couple of churches because of some of the teachings, we didn't see truth in them & could not be shown truth in the teachings, we left. people get led where people want to be led!! & people beleave in what they want to beleave in, it's up to the people to chose right from wrong!! in all walks of life!!
just my [smiley=twocents.gif] worth!!
God bless everyone & everyone bless God!!
Jolene

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by ivanov on Sep 30^th, 2005, 5:11pm

This is an interesting article about religion by Bill Moyers -

http://www.alternet.org/story/25274

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Jonny on Sep 30^th, 2005, 5:20pm

"In 1651, the Baptist Obadiah Holmes was given 30 stripes with a three-corded whip after he violated the law and took forbidden communion with another Baptist in Lynn, Massachusetts. His friends offered to pay his fine for his release but he refused. They offered him strong drink to anesthetize the pain of the flogging. Again he refused. It is the love of liberty, he said, "that must free the soul."

Nowa days Lynn, Mass is called "Lynn the city of sin" ;;D

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Charlie on Sep 30^th, 2005, 5:21pm

Have to agree with the article. It's about where I feel on the subject.

Religions are exclusionary clubs that foster "the other." Easy to not get along or go off the deep end that way.

It's never been a good idea to meddle with theocracies. http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/veiledsmile2.gif?SSImageQuality=Full

Charlie

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by karma on Oct 1^st, 2005, 8:06am

And when the missionary, scribe reread the original text he slapped his forhead and shouted " Damn it says celebrate not celebate"

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by AussieBrian on Oct 1^st, 2005, 8:35am

Then there was the bit about rooting the Philipinos with the ass-bone of a Jew.

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Melissa on Oct 1^st, 2005, 9:13am

As Chris Rock's charachter Rufus in the movie "Dogma" said (this is my most favorite part of the script)...

"He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, but especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.

I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."

edited to add: I believe in God and Jesus, yet I don't think I am the cause of ills to society. I don't attend church, but that doesn't mean that all of those who do, are the ills either.

Time is the invention of man, as is the value of time, yet no one disputes if it is right or wrong. Now why do you think that is? Just because some people says it's so, doesn't necessarily mean it's right. It can be 1 or a million, doesn't matter, beause it's an invention. An idea...

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Sean_C on Oct 1^st, 2005, 9:29am

on 09/30/05 at 17:21:18, Charlie wrote:

Have to agree with the article. It's about where I feel on the subject.

Religions are exclusionary clubs that foster "the other." Easy to not get along or go off the deep end that way.

Oh boy, we're blaming God now. How simple [smiley=huh.gif]

I disagree with the whole article, sounds like it was a controlled study in poverty stricken areas to me where Gods presence is strong. In my opinion that article is junk.................................sorry :-/

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by nani on Oct 1^st, 2005, 9:49am

Seannie...it's not God that's the problem...it's religion. Religion was invented by humans.
Like in Mel's post above:

Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Melissa on Oct 1^st, 2005, 9:55am

It's sad you know, because of all the times I've gone to church, some were just wonderful. Where you felt connected to everyone there through the relationship you have with God, and other times, I couldn't have felt more isolated. :-/ I think it all depends upon us as human beings, and unfortunately there are many who take advantage of others through manipulation, even when they're unaware of it themselves.

*sigh*

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by maffumatt on Oct 1^st, 2005, 10:20am

The reason why the liberal attacks on religion causes losses at election time. Wonder how many people are as offended as I am by trash like that artical written by an "intellectial supierior" idiot.

Group Number Percent of
U.S. population
Total 1 284,800,000 100.0%

Christian 2 217,872,000 76.5%
Protestant 18 150,944,000 53 %
"born-again" or "evangelical" 125,312,000 44 %
Catholic 2 69,776,000 24.5 %
Baptist 18 34,176,000 12 %
Evangelical (theologically) 16 22,049,360 8.0%
Methodist 2 19,366,400 6.8%
Southern Baptist 3 15,800,000 5.6%
Lutheran 2 13,100,800 4.6%
United Methodist Church 20 8,251,042 2.9%
Presbyterian 2 7,689,600 2.7%
Pentecostal 2 5,980,800 2.1%
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) 15 5,503,192 1.93%
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 3, 20 5,038,066 1.8%
Episcopalian 2 4,841,600 1.7%
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 3, 20 3,595,259 1.3%
Judaism 2, 21 3,702,400 1.3%
Eastern Orthodox 9 2,756,170 1 %
Assemblies of God 11 2,575,000 0.93%
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod 3, 20 2,512,714 0.9%
Buddhist 13 2,400,000 0.87%
Episcopal Church 20 2,333,628 0.82%
Non-denominational 11 2,000,000 0.7%
Megachurch attendance 14 1,800,000 0.64%
Jehovah's Witnesses 2 1,708,800 0.6%
Italian speakers 6 1,565,165 0.6%
Mennonite Church USA 11 1,525,000 0.55%
Churches of Christ (non-instrumental / Corsicana, TX) 20 1,500,000 0.53%
American Baptist Church in the U.S.A. 20 1,484,291 0.52%
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church 20 1,430,795 0.50%
Muslim 2 1,424,000 0.5%
agnostic 2 1,424,000 0.5%
United Church of Christ 20 1,330,985 0.47%
Baptist Bible Fellowship International 20 1,200,000 0.42%
Independent Christian Church, Churches of Christ
(instrumental / Joplin, MO) 20 1,071,616 0.39%
Hindu 13 1,000,000 0.36%
Church of God (Cleveland, TN) 20 944,857 0.33%
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 11 910,000 0.33%
Unitarian Universalist 2 854,400 0.3%
Seventh-day Adventists 11 809,000 0.29%
Neo-pagan (incl. Wiccans) 12 768,400 0.28%
Church of the Nazarene 11 608,000 0.11%
Reformed Church in America (RCA) 11 304,000 0.11%
Libertarian party members 7 200,000 0.07%
Native American Religionist 2 103,000 0.04%

Nonreligious 2 37,593,600 13.2%
atheists 2, 10 1,139,200 0.4%

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by nani on Oct 1^st, 2005, 10:58am

[smiley=huh.gif]
Matt... Libertarian Party is a religion? Italian Speakers is a religion?
I also didn't see Bahai, Reformed Judaism or Reformed LDS.

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Sean_C on Oct 1^st, 2005, 11:09am

on 10/01/05 at 10:20:34, maffumatt wrote:

Wonder how many people are as offended as I am by trash like that artical written by an "intellectial supierior" idiot.

Thats exactly what it is....................trash/junk.

To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.

-Isaac Asimov

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by maffumatt on Oct 1^st, 2005, 1:34pm

on 10/01/05 at 10:58:20, nani wrote:

[smiley=huh.gif]
Matt... Libertarian Party is a religion? Italian Speakers is a religion?
I also didn't see Bahai, Reformed Judaism or Reformed LDS.

Forgive me, i took those statistics from the census and missed a few of the irrevelent stats, but the point I was makeing should still be clear.

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Charlie on Oct 1^st, 2005, 5:57pm

God is not a Republican.

Charlie

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by maffumatt on Oct 1^st, 2005, 6:10pm

Where does it say he is? My point being that the far left and its anti religous stance forces people who may lean to the left on other ideological topics to vote with the right. When you look at the numbers I posted, how many of those people would be offended by the article posted. How many would vote against a candidate expressing such views? What good does it do for the liberal cause? All I see it doing is driveing people who would have once voted for the left to vote for the right.

edited to add
I personaly like it when the hard core left expose themselves like this, it only helps the right. As far as the numbers posted in the article, I can post numbers on Hitler that would make him seem like a saint.

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Filbert on Oct 1^st, 2005, 6:52pm

on 10/01/05 at 17:57:18, Charlie wrote:

God is not a Republican.

Charlie

Spot on Charlie he's a Leicester City fan. ;;D

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Charlie on Oct 1^st, 2005, 7:05pm

One of my biggest gripes is the endless lawsuits and mindless ranting about religious symbolism, and its inclusion or exclusion here, there, and everywhere. This goes for stuff like gay marriage too. The latter rants may have been the difference in many political races. Bible belters are; well, into the bible; not liberal thinking at the moment.

Think what could be done with the money and time spent by both sides for people who could use a boost. It's disgusting what's happened and does little good other than piss off people and now and then send a few people around the bend.

It bothers me not if there are crosses, nativity scenes, or under God stuff in the pledge...The Ten Commandments doesn't bug me either in court houses; so long as I don't trip over it or it gets in my way. The sentiments are pretty good.

In short, religion stuff doesn't bother me much. I’m not religious but I’m not anti-religious. At least in modern times, in western countries, it's probably done more good than harm. Lets try to keep it that way.

It's not God stuff that gets under my skin; it's the TV preachers that make me sick. Liberal complaints are more anti-Pat Roberston and Jerry Falwell; who have done a pretty good job making fundamentalism as much fun as a root canal. Billy Graham they ain't.

I miss Bishop Fulton J. Sheen. He was good.

Charlie

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by maffumatt on Oct 1^st, 2005, 7:59pm

good save

By the way, who is bringing up these endless lawsuits? Bible belters are not anti liberal , they are anti -liberal -attacks against their deepest convictions and will vote their concience.

As for money, I will bet you that you will find religous orginizations contribute far more money than you realize. Who took in the masses after the Katrina. And no they did not do it so Bush could include them the relief funds.

Quote
It's not God stuff that gets under my skin; it's the TV preachers that make me sick. Liberal complaints are more anti-Pat Roberston and Jerry Falwell; who have done a pretty good job making fundamentalism as much fun as a root canal. Billy Graham they ain't.
end quote
I agree here, people like James and Tammy Fay Baker make me sick. Anywhere you find money, you will find curruption.

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Sean_C on Oct 1^st, 2005, 8:17pm

on 10/01/05 at 19:05:56, Charlie wrote:

I feel like somebody just took a freight train off my chest ;;D

Thanks Charlie ;;D

Sean..........................................

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by DonnaHar on Oct 1^st, 2005, 9:21pm

As far as I am concerned, there's a big difference between "religion and church". There's a Christian song entitled "Open the eyes of Your Church, Lord" that spells it out beautifully. I do not belong to a religion, I have a personal relationship with God and the church family that I attend church with feels as I do, and we support each other in living according to Gods' expectations.

Charlie.......good post.

No one has the right to impose their beliefs on another person nor do they have the right to judge someone else.

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by Charlie on Oct 1^st, 2005, 9:47pm

Quote:

One thing: A "Save" it wasn't.

I've posted pretty much the same thing ever since I've been here. Maybe you didn’t know that I’ve been over this before. I just happen to agree with most of your stuff about religion being appropriated by the right, and that the left shoots themselves in the foot over it. I knew you couldn’t let it go.

The funny thing is that except for some really bizarre twerps, right-wingers put religious issues on the back burner once they get in office. The religious right has been used by the GOP...up until now anyway.

Bible belters have been around since the beginning of the Republic. They were't particularly worried about guys like me. They got annoying only since overtly larcenous TV con men and self-appointed messengers of God successfully convinced their flock that God needs money; lots it. They are being used by these creeps who scare them into sending in “love gifts” to keep their libraries clean of "gay-promoting" literature and keeping those scary “homos” from ruining their country. Other criminals like Robert Tilton who robs the gullible weekly, tell them that they will receive wealth beyond their wildest dreams so long as they send in lots and lots of money.

There is no virtue in this kind of religion and the endless ranting by these creeps it what stirs up the left. They are dangerous and give Christianity a bad name.

It's not new. Crap like this is on television for the first time. Too much really, it gets boring.

Charlie

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by maffumatt on Oct 1^st, 2005, 10:23pm

on 10/01/05 at 21:47:26, Charlie wrote:

you couldn't either LoL. Anyway your right about people like Pat Robertson and Tilton. There is a word for them charlatans. You give them much to much credit however. They speak for a very few percentage of americans. They sure don't speak for me anyway.

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by ccbiggsoo7 on Oct 3^rd, 2005, 3:04am

so let me get this right I go to church i get the clap!!! ::)

Title: Re: Bad Religion
Post by ghost62 on Oct 3^rd, 2005, 3:56am

Ok I guess I missed this as it happened. So I will just throw in my [smiley=twocents.gif]

Q; Why does the actions of a few always seem to be the measuring stick of the rest?

A; Because the few are the loudest!

Good night.