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Title: Your opinion please............ Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:18pm Please dont use this thread to get heated and in some sort of political pissing match. I just want people's opinion on an issue i heard today. Some people are saying that the federal govt should not give money, like a charity, to the devastated areas in the gulf coast. (Federal property, yes.....roads, bridges, other infrastructue yes.) Some people think that only the insurance companies, and private charities should handle the personal and business losses. What do yous think? You think that the govt should use tax dollars to help out the victims' personal losses in such a catastrophic event? BMonee |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by rumplestiltskin on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:27pm Quote:
tee hee...whattya fuckin nuts? love den |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by cootie on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:33pm My beef with it all is wether the people really get it all or what no matter WHO is collecting for them. Alot of people start up a business to make money as a 'charity' for a disaster or sumthin and they take donations for it and advertise. Alot of people get paid "first" before the needy get there share. Greed indeed Pam |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by TxBasslady on Sep 1st, 2005, 12:20am I don't usually reply to posts like this. However, I heard the same comment you mention. Why repair the roads, and rebuild the bridges or worry about the infrastructure, if they have noone living in the City? So what, if New Orleans is below sea level. It was a thriving City, and one of the major ports. Look at Florida...8 or 9 hurricanes in the last year. I never heard anyone say Florida shouldn't receive federal assistance. I suppose the feds could just somehow "erase" New Orleans, and Florida off the maps. When New Orleans was put on the map, the feds knew it was below sea level. Did they care??? No, they didn't, and you can bet that as N.O became more popular, and more and more folks moved there, the feds were lovin' it. Look at all the tax $$ paid in by folks there. I would imagine that Insurance companies charged a tad bit more for policies issued in this area. Many insurance companies have become quite wealthy off these folks. FEMA usually has some stipulations on their funds. One is that if you receive assistance, and if you remain in that home, you must provide flood insurance for 12 months after receipt of funding. My home, here in Texas is located in the 100 year Flood Plain. My home flooded in 1994, and my renter received funds from FEMA for her personal property. In return, she had to provide proof of flood insurance for her personal property for 12 months. I paid for all the repairs out of my pocket. I could have gotten a loan at 3.5% interest from SBA...but chose to not do that. I didn't file a claim with my insurance company, cause I knew they would more than double the premium if I did. I have to think of folks who lived in apartments in N.O. It's not very fair that they receive nothing for their personal property. It's not their fault that the hurricane destroyed their stuff. The politicians who make these kind of statements most likely have never been caught in a disaster. I bet alot of 'em have been to Mardi Gras though. A disaster can happen anywhere...anytown, USA. Scenario: What if it snowed in Plymouth, Mass for 40 days and 40 nights....Power lines snap, water freezes, pipes burst, roofs cave in, trees topple from the weight of the ice and snow. Can't get in...can't get out. You have 30,000 people with no power, no water, damage to their homes, and possible deaths from this weather related disaster. I'm talkin' state of emergency disaster. Prez flies over and says "yep, it's a disaster." Should Jonny, and 29,999 other folks receive some sort of assistance? You bet they should. Wonder if the feds would say "well, these folks shouldn't be livin' in a City where it snows so much." Good grief....sometimes I wonder what politicians really do to earn all that money. No political pissing match for me....this is just MHO. Jean |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Drk^Angel on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:50am As long as the government is collecting my taxes, some of it had better go to the people in this country that needs it. If the government wants insurance companies and charities to pick up the cost, they better stop funding these disaster relief agencies and funds, and cut our taxes that went to pay them so that we can afford to give money to these charities, and people can afford to pay their insurance premiums. PFDAN................................................ Drk^Angel |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Woobie on Sep 1st, 2005, 5:33am on 09/01/05 at 02:50:31, Drk^Angel wrote:
Well said there, Drk! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Sandy_C on Sep 1st, 2005, 7:38am Yes, some of my taxes should go for disaster relief, wherever it is needed. We need to help those who have lost everything they own and have no way to recover by themselves. However, I seem to recall several months ago that the government learned that it had provided relief funds to many Florida victims, who falsely filed claims for damages they did not incur. Now the government is trying to get that money back - right! If we provide our tax dollars for disaster relief, which we absolutely should do, I would hope that there is some established criteria for "proving" that you have incurred a loss. I do, however, object to providing my tax dollars to shore up some rich dude's five million dollar beach house because the idiot insisted on building it ocean front, against the advice of experts who are telling him that the beach is washing away and his home won't be there in 10 years! I also object to these "beach renourishment" programs which cost millions so this same rich dude has some sand to walk on! Mother Nature is going to do her thing no matter what. It's up to us to have enough sense not to purposely get in her way. Off soap box now. Sandy |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by don on Sep 1st, 2005, 7:47am My opinion is there will be plenty of time to debate that later. Coast Guard = 1000(+) rescues to date. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Sep 1st, 2005, 8:05am I also don't usually respond to this kind of stuff either but I do have an opinion on this one. I'd rather see the government giving money to rebuild a city destroyed by a natural disaster than see my tax mony going to welfare to support lazy, non working slobs or to pad the payrolls of people who know how to play the system and get welfare while another member of their family makes over 50K a year. Rebuilding a devestated area like this helps the infrastructure of that area and restores the jobs that once exsited there. A new city may have even more jobs and overall, it will help the economy in the long run. The first thing they need to do down there is bury all of the looters in the middle of N.O. to raise it up a little higher so it's not below sea level. Then they can start rebuilding. By looters, I'm not talking about people who are getting food and water to survive. I'm talking about the people that are walking around with TVs, Stereos, Jewelry, etc... Where in the hell are they going to take the stuff? They have no home!!! Just my two cents. [smiley=twocents.gif] |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:06am I agree with what most of yous said. I think the feds (or state) need to rebuild the infrastructure. But take an example....lets say the N.O. water company has to pay huge insurance rates to insure the water system....they are obviously gonna pass that expense through to the citizens. So, the insurance being paid for, the insurance company should pay to fix the water system, not tax dollars from the same damn people that paid for the insurance anyway. And definately, i wish there was some sort of utopian way to get government charity money to the people that really need it. Obviously there are gonna be thousands and thousands of people that dont need money trying to get some. Or maybe it shouldnt be in the form of money, maybe it should be oil and gas, and food items, and water, and medicine. Money aint gonna help those people anyway, they need commodities. This is a tough issue, in a very poor city. The damage is unbelievable. BMonee |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Jill on Sep 1st, 2005, 10:20am I have been wondering how all of this works - where the money comes from you re-build a damaged city, no matter where it is and what happens to those people who lost homes... they lost so much more including everything they own, jobs and more... I heard, correct me if I am wrong, that you cant get flood insurance in areas like New Orleans since it is below sea level. That insurance companiies would lose too much money if they did provide it and a flood occurred - so where do those families get money to rebuild their homes? I do think that some tax money should be used for disaster relief but I am not sure how. I mean, how do you decide which families get this money? Or does everyone get some? If that is the case than there isnt enough money... I dont think that taxes should be raised because people need it, they are high enough and I know, personally, I cant afford it... So... is there really a way to solve this problem? It both makes sense and doesnt make sense that people cant get insurance and I cant help but wonder how they re-build their lives. And I dont think that it is fair to say that they shouldnt have it because they live in this type of area. Yes, they want to live there and this potential (or in this case it happened) comes with the territory... we could say this sort of thing about anywhere in the country.. Makes me wonder what happens next after everyone is rescued... :-/ Jill |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by fubar on Sep 1st, 2005, 10:37am A lot of people are asking WHY the city was built there.... here is a great history to read. Things are not always simple. http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:V-Fw9ZexoNgJ:www.madere.com/history.html I had to post a link from Google cache since this site is being hammered right now. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by TomM on Sep 1st, 2005, 10:40am on 09/01/05 at 07:47:08, don wrote:
Close... "Coast Guard crews assisted in the rescue of about 1,200 people stranded by the high water conditons in the New Orleans area Monday and thousands more were rescued this morning." The rest of the article is here: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,uscg2_083005.00.html?ESRC=coastguard.nl |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by BobG on Sep 1st, 2005, 10:41am on 08/31/05 at 22:18:59, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
No. Compensating the victim's for personal loss is not the governments responsibility. The government does have the responsibility to get the roads open so help can get into the area. Federal govt pays for the feds roads and states pay for the state owned roads. The Corps of Army Engineers owns the leaky dike. They should pay to fix it. The feds should help with rescue helicopters, boats, etc. And they are doing that. The feds are moving navy ships into the area, one is a large floating hospital. The state(s) should be paying for the national guard and or reserves. In other words, the federal government pays for what the federal government owns and operates. The state governments pay for what they own. And on down the line to county and city. My heart and prayers go out to the victims that have lost everything. But, They also have to take responsibility of their own. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by E-Double on Sep 1st, 2005, 11:33am What is a damn shame is that the city appeared to have survived the hurricane without tremendous damage yet it was the damn levees that have been under suspiscion for years that finally broke and destroyed the city. How is that the government was not proactive in maintaining the leves or fixing them so that this would not have happened to this degree? Now you have not only millions if not billions of dollars in damage but priceless history gone! That's my opinion |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Sep 1st, 2005, 11:37am on 09/01/05 at 11:33:49, E-Double wrote:
I think that the biggest monetary loss will not be from flooding but it will be a result of the looters who are stealing everything they can get their hands on and destroying everything else. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by fubar on Sep 1st, 2005, 11:49am Should the federal government pay for all losses? Of course, they shouldn’t. They should use our tax dollars to rebuild the infrastructure that benefits ALL of us. I suspect that most people don’t fully comprehend the magnitude of the economic impact that this disaster will have. We just clamped an arterial vein of commerce for the US economy. The Mississippi and the Port of Louisiana are critical in the delivery of many goods, inbound or outbound, in the US. The only port in the US that can accept super tankers is there. 30-40% of our own oil production is in the Gulf. Even if you have never cared about New Orleans before, chances are you’ll touch something today that ultimately came through there on its journey to you, maybe in raw material form. My point is, I want the government to get that engine working again as soon as possible, because the economic impact is going to hurt all of us more the longer it takes to fix it. However, I’m also in favor of funding oversight on the use/distribution of relief or recovery funds NOW instead of whining/moaning/investigating/prosecuting abusers later. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Frank_W on Sep 1st, 2005, 11:51am Right on, Fubar. >:( [smiley=thumb.gif] |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by thomas on Sep 1st, 2005, 11:55am New Orleans should get Federal Dissaster money from the government. But more importantly, what are these guys/gals gonna do this weekend? [smiley=huh.gif] http://www.southerndecadence.com/ |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by BobG on Sep 1st, 2005, 12:11pm on 09/01/05 at 11:55:13, thomas wrote:
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Jill on Sep 1st, 2005, 12:20pm I am watching CNN right now and it is hard to believe the disaster that has occurred and that is still coming - it looks almost unreal, like watching a movie... only worse. People are yelling at each other, at camera men.. what a mess! I think that the money to rebuild the places in Louisianna, Mississippi and Alabama is important but right now, the focus should be on rescuing everyone and moving whoever needs to be moved.... One thing at a time, you know? But, I am wondering why they cant get water to these people who are waiting for the buses? Or food? Or more transportation? I admire those that are rescuing people and those that are doing what they can - they are heroes, dont get me wrong. I just dont understand, they can get buses to move people in but not trucks with supplies? It is just horrifying to watch these people - mothers with infants and nothing they can do for them, people dying everyday at the dome and their bodies pushed to the side. And the anger of the people there.... If someone had said that this was going to happen, you wouldnt believe it, but you would hope that we would have been more prepared for what to do.. if that makes sense... I feel for them all. It is more than homes and businesses, it is lives that need to be saved and that should be the focus. Jill |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by thomas on Sep 1st, 2005, 1:06pm on 09/01/05 at 12:20:31, Jill wrote:
It takes more time to load a vehicle up with supplies than it does to drive an empty vehicle there. Plus you have to get the supplies, then load them. I worked for 2 months in Florida for Hurricane Andrew relief. It's slow, slow, dirty, nasty, deadly, and thankless work. And I will not comment on the "poor refuges". |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Jill on Sep 1st, 2005, 1:14pm Quote:
That makes sense - it just seems unreal that people are without so much and to see those pictures of mothers and children.. They said one lady gave her two month old daughter to someone else because they were on the bus and she couldnt get on it... horrible. What really makes me mad and what I cant understand is all of the violence - people shooting at national guards, women being raped at night and so much more. The natural part of this disaster is bad enough but do add all of the crime and violence makes it unimaginable.. God Bless those that are there to help these people.. Jill |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Sep 1st, 2005, 1:19pm OK. I'll ask the question that everybody else has been to polite to ask. What the Hell did those people stay there for any ways????????? There was a mandatory evacuation order. I understand that some couldn't make it out because of transportation or finances but I think that it would be pretty silly to stay with your entire family. I don't know how many pictures I've seen of people with small children with them. What the Hell were they thinking? There at least 60,000 people left that are trying to evacuate now. Why??? Doesn't mandatory mean you have no choice? If I had to stay behind, I would have at least sent my wife and daughter away to keep them safe. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by thomas on Sep 1st, 2005, 1:23pm on 09/01/05 at 13:19:32, ExplodingEyeBall wrote:
To rape and pillage without the threat of punishment. Edit to add. The recovery would go a lot quicker if they didn't have to deal with bodies and homeless who are in need. If those people would have left, they would be somewhere dry and have access to food and the recovery workers could be getting the infrastructure restored. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Jill on Sep 1st, 2005, 1:33pm Quote:
Those are the same exact questions that I asked when all of this happened - it makes no sense. I know that some figured that if there house made it through that hurricane in 1969 (is that the right year) than they would make it through this one but that was a long time ago, things do age... I would have thought that even if they had no where to go or money to get there, they would have atleast gone to the superdome - the had transportation set up for people to get there... I think alot of people are now regretting their decisions.. Did you hear the rescue of one lady who was in her car with her eighty-eight year old mother in the middle of the storm? Or the lady who hid in an attack crawl space with her littel grand-daughter... really begs the question, what were they thinking? Jill |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Melissa on Sep 1st, 2005, 1:46pm It just makes me sick to remember the day before the hurricane hit, that young mother on the news who said she'd do ANYTHING for her young son (not even a year old!)... yet she didn't leave. [smiley=nono.gif] They showed a young mother on the streets of N.O. right now, I figure not more than 20yrs old, saying how she has 3 young babies to feed.... sorry, I cannot even put into words what I'm feeling right now. :-[ |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:00pm The levee system has seen tremendous work since 1995. Clinton helped get federal funding specifically for new orleans, cause everyone knows they would get crushed in a hurricane. This is the levee system AFTER it has been reinforced. It seems like the new line of command, the Defense Minister instead of FEMA is in charge, meaning the DHS. FEMA learned a lot in the last 16 years with large disasters, but they arent in charge anymore. hurrican andrew preparation had C130s dropping cargo from the air directly to the damaged areas the same day as the hurricane, as well as the next day. It seems in New Orleans, they are still talking about how they havent done much of anything yet. I like the mayor, had the balls to call for a total evacuation, that was a smart thing. It seems nothing has really happened since 80% of the city left. It may be, as we are seeing, that not only is this ONE of the worst disasters, this could easily be THE worst. A little farther east, they got fucking pummeled. The same town that got crushed by Camille in 1969, and was just starting to recover from it, got directly hit. Its not that 95% of the city was destroyed........95% of the city is GONE. Even superstructures, like the Brand Spanking New Hard Rock Hotel and Casino, due to open next week had the casino portion DESTROYED. The whole fucking thing can not be repaired. This is hard-core. My heart goes out to all the people that live in that area of the gulf. Man, you see that one dude on TV that was talking about how he had his wife's hand, but he couldnt hold on to her, and so the last thing she told him was "take care of the kids", then she died? Is that fuckin GUT WRENCHING? BMonee |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by thebbz on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:15pm Good points all around. Seems to me it is a simple fact of economics. Good and bad in every situation. Too much attention is being paid to negative shit. If it bleeds it leads. All the coverage Ive seen had promoted division and fueled emotions. Pass the popcorn. I just hate for those people. The ones that didn't leave were unable to or just did not have any other place to go. Not their fault. [smiley=twocents.gif] BB |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please............ Post by Charlie on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:27pm Social compasion is what is needed. We need the feds on this one too. It's not patriotic to sit back and judge who gets fed. No heads to roll before the end of the beginning. http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/smiles/standart/heat.gif?SSImageQuality=Full Charlie |
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