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Title: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:36am How ridiculous can it get? I realize there are brave souls attempting to rescue victims of the hurricane. I pray for these caring people and the victims that need to be rescued. However I am ashmed of or governments ill preperatons for something like this. Government as a whole - Despite several days notice of the impending landfall of a hurricane of unprecedented strength. Plus accurate predictions of its effects, no agency - State, Federal or local mobilized resources in advance of landfall so that they could immediately respond when the storm had past. Was there nothing deployed to states surrounding these heavily hit Gulf States in preperation for rescue and relief efforts? The Mayor of New Orleans is stating "we had a plan that no one is following." That "there are too many frickin' cooks in the kitchen", and he was pleased that there was an effort affot to consolidate into a single command center. Is bureaucracy more important than a coordinated rescue and relief effort. The Heavy Equipment and materials needed to deal with damanged levies is nowhere in sight - They're attempting to address a massive inflow of water with light equipment and large sand bags. These levies were the primary concern with this storm - Why wasn't there any government agency with the foresight to prepare for this? Louisiana’s Governor has done a lot of moaning about the damage and how looting is the result of desperate people. Will she ever take control and begin to discuss how the state is enacting its disaster plan and coordinated rescue efforts? People are trapped and dying while little more than talk is being done Was there ever a real plan or just another government talking point that never got funding? Keep hearing how it's unsafe to go into these areas due to increasing violence and rising waters? Marshall Law was enacted but no one has been deployed to enforce it. Boats for the national guard seem to be non-existent - I realize this is an unprecedented disaster but - why wasn't there any advanced preperation or planing for a disaster of this magnitude when it was only a matter of time before it occurrred? FEMA - "We should have ice trucked into the area in 10 days." WTF is this - how can they justify needing 10 days just to get ice into the area? I've dealt with FEMA now on two occasions following disasters and know first hand that presense/paperwork-NOT ASSISTANCE is what they're all about. National Guard - Driving trucks past people stuck and now dying on highway ramps. Signaling to these people that their hands are tied and they can't pick them up. Red Cross - Again blasting the airways looking for donations while showing minimal presense in the area. I wonder what their directors and executives salaries are up to these days and what their bonus' will be for the money collected and not distributed for this disaster. People - Instead of banding together and rescueing stranded survivors they choose to loot stores, houses and cars - not for food or water but for jewelry, clothes, cash,electronics, etc. - Proving once again that we are just animals like all the other critters. I'm disgusted with a government that no longer has the best interest of it's people in mind or the ability to be prepared for disasters like this. They sure take a lot of our money and give nothing back. I'm ashamed of our govenment's uncoordinated response to this disaster even with the new "Homeland Security" agency added to the list of agencies the response just for rescue efforts and damage control is pathetic. I am ashamed of some of the people affected by this disaster who can think of nothing but themselves when people are still trapped - haven't their neighbors lost enough without having their property ransacked? God help us all - we've become a nation without disipline. Tom |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Opus on Aug 31st, 2005, 12:10pm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4201480.stm |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by floridian on Aug 31st, 2005, 12:27pm I understand your frustration, agree with some of your points, have a different perspective on others. Quote:
Serious screw up. Very serious. Quote:
Not all are on snatch and grab to get people out of a jam. Some of them are on specific missions, which presumably are necessary. Not pleasant to fly over (or drive by) someone in trouble, but might be necessary for some. Quote:
How would you truck in ice when roads are flooded and bridges are out? I think ten days is optomistic. Quote:
Actually, they long ago decided not to put shelters in New Orleans because it is below sea level. The plan was to evacuate people to shelters farther inland, which they did. Quote:
Well, lots of people are rescuing their neighbors or just sitting tight. But that doesn't make for good TV - looting is more exciting (and watching the looters shot by the Guard would be even more exciting). Quote:
You got a point. Homeland security gets about $1 for every $5 of what is going to Iraq, and most of that goes to customs, port inspection, etc. There is no civil defense agency, except for the one guy that tells us to buy duct tape, and the other one that announces what color of alert we are on. My additions to the list: 1) piss poor mass transit in a city where almost 1/3 of the people lived under the poverty limit. 2) NFIP, the national flood insurance program. Private companies won't provide this, cause they know they will lose money. So they fob it off on Uncle Sam. Then most people don't bother to sign up for it. Then a disaster happens, and people get emotional, and the Feds hand out money so people can rebuild in the same fool place. 3) Overmodification of the Mississippi - no more flooding of the wetlands around New Orleans, meaning less soil and water to replenish the land - the eroded and sunken wetlands are less able to protect against storm surge. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by kcopelin on Aug 31st, 2005, 1:39pm First of all, this is Linda Howell and not Kathy. I'm just using her computer, so don't blame her for my post here. Quote:
Is this YOUR opinion? or are you quoting from something/someone else? Because this is very wrong. Every chapter of the American Red Cross is endeavoring to send 2 to 3 volunteers every single day over to the disaster sites where they will work 12 hour days with only THIS kind of attitude to consol them for the work they are doing. The Red Cross does NOT get any Federal funding for the work they do...They rely on donations...DUH!!!!!!! No Executive gets a bonus for donations. You are suffering from Optical rectomitis. Linda |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 31st, 2005, 2:24pm By all accounts the response is not what most of us would perceive of our country's ability to respond to a disaster. While it is important that notes be taken, the focus should be on how help can begin getting to where it needs to go and people can be extricated from this mess. I understand the urge to want to criticize everyone involved as we all watch this. And some may be well placed, that'll come up out later. But, have you donated to any organization providing aid yet? If you have, great. If you haven't, find one you think will do a good job. I personally believe in the Red Cross and believe that the resources that are required by the Red Cross to react to a disaster of this size should have everyone calling in (or logging in) a donation. The same way we did when the Tsunami hit, the same way we did to the 9/11 fundraiser telethon/concert. There may be more we can do later that means more to each of us as individuals, but a donation to the Red Cross can funnel resources fairly efficiently. Perfectly, no. As good as we can get right now, maybe. The media is not helping by placing the focus on re-running ignorant looters, over and over again, this is a small minority of the millions affected by this storm. Look past it. Don't forget it, but look past it for the many families that truly do require help that are waiting. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Aug 31st, 2005, 3:23pm on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
You are kidding, right? Let's put the rescuees in harms way BEFORE the storm???? Let's drench the equipment so it is completely worthless. You ever been in a hurricane? Ever seen the destruction first hand? Ever felt the wind like that? Sorry, but if the people who CHOSE to stay, despite the MANDATORY evacuation order, were'nt there, we would not have the looting [and related issues] and NEED to rescue them. The only thing that has stopped me from really busting your balls is you did not say anything negative about the U.S. Coast Guard. TomM [USCG, Ret.] |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Charlie on Aug 31st, 2005, 3:26pm Lots of good points. One person emailed that "aren't you glad that Homeland Security is a big part of the mix, and don't you feel better now?" Well it is new and I still think H. S. is redundant and ill-conceived, a cosmetic response, political, aimed at us rather than terrorists, and run by careless idiots........but other than that a humdinger...but gee whiz! :o I like the Red Cross. You have to trust something and despite some stupid stuff from them in the past, it's a good bet. For me though, nothing beats the Salvation Army. One way or another, someone, somewhere gets some decent food, a jacket, soap, or some basic first aid. No nonsense. I love them. The thing about this kind of disaster is that we expect to see a crawl at the bottom of the screen reading "Borneo or Andaman Islands" or other faraway place. It doesn't happen here...... Like 9/11 in that way. I agree: Forget the looters except for violent types. Getting Insulin and other life-saving equipment is more important. Actually, I like the Mayor. He has been very straight-forward about this. Soon more Navy and more military will get there. They know how to do this. This is tough stuff and that we see it instantly reinforces impatience. This is real. I'm 58 and in all those years I've never seen such a horrible mess here caused by nature. CNN is addicting. My favorite commentor is Jack Cafferty on CNN. He reads lots emails from listeners. Love his suggestions. No bullshit from him. I can't help but think that there are more hurricanes to come this season..... :'( Can't wait for Pat Roberston's take on this one..... http://www.subscribe.smileygenerator.us/all/albums/user_submitted/nunu.gif?SSImageQuality=Full Charlie |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Aug 31st, 2005, 4:01pm Oh, and while I have the soap box under my feet: Why do people insist on being negative???? [smiley=huh.gif] Tom, my friend, what have YOU done? I'v done my part and will again; I always have and always will but I do not feel the need to brag about it nor point fingers and bring up the negative. Ever saved anyones' life? I have. Many times more than most people have farted. OK--that is an overstatement but the point is I have done my part and continue to do so now and will in the future. Get off YOUR a$$ and be part of the solution instead of complaining about the problems. That is all. TomM |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by rickyshot on Aug 31st, 2005, 4:33pm I hear you Tomm. No one could ever prepare for a natural disaster of this magnitude. BTW I have mailed my donation to the REd Cross and when my bank saw that I was putting the Red Cross on my money order they waived the fee. And I live in Canada. I thought that small gesture was so wonderful. We don't hear this on the news. There is plenty of noble behavior going on as we speak and let us focus on this because we will need all we can muster up in our faith and spirits to overcome this. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jonny on Aug 31st, 2005, 4:36pm on 08/31/05 at 16:01:17, TomM wrote:
Yep, eight year old kid....lucky for him that I was trying out new scuba equipment in the lake the day he decided to drown. Also, lucky for him that someone knew CPR when I brought him up, cause I didnt. But I dont like to brag....LOL ;;D Edit to add: Thank you for your service, Tom.....I was just in the right place at the right time.....You, put your life on the line to save folks and that ROCKS!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Aug 31st, 2005, 4:40pm on 08/31/05 at 16:33:32, rickyshot wrote:
That's what I like to read! Thank you, Ricky. Oh, here is the link: https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Aug 31st, 2005, 4:47pm on 08/31/05 at 13:39:30, kcopelin wrote:
Is this the same Red Cross that bills victims of disasters for the second hand stuff the provide? Is this the same Red Cross that got caught after hurricane Andrew faking a disaster relief dinner for the press? Thankfully the press asked questions and found out the the Red Cross was not available prior to the press conference. Is this the same Red Cross that charges service men for sending them home for family crisis'? Is this the same Red Cross that took the money and ran after the 911 disaster? Saying we collected the money for 911 but will spend it on other things? Is this the same Red Cross who's Regional Director in Pittsburgh claims she is worth every penny of the $375,000 annual salary she collects? I'll live by the ole' fool me once, shame of you. Fool me twice, shame on me, motto. By the way the Salvation Army is and has been on site since day one ready to feed vicitms but can't get into the areas in need. The Sally is where my money goes - all volunteers and requirement to repay them for their charitable services. Tom The Red Cross didn't begin setting up relief centers until |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by deltadarlin on Aug 31st, 2005, 4:53pm Tom, You really should submit your well-written, well-thought our post as a letter to the newspaper. I'm sure Gannett would make sure that it got in all their Louisiana papers. on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
BEFORE the storm, the priority was to get these people out of there. New Orleans alone has over half a million people (and we're not even touching the rest of the population in the surrounding parishes and the MS Gulf Coast). Tell me, with a cat 4 bearing down on you, what's your first thought? "Oh, we need to get our equipment in place" or "oh, we need to get those people out". on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
Ask anybody, central command=more efficient operations, less confusion. on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
And just how do you suppose to get this equipment in there? Airlift it in? Or perhaps it should have been stored in one of the surrounding areas (hopefully it would be amphibious equipment, since it would be under water now). on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
One word, bullsh*t. on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
There is a plan and it has been implemented. I suppose that you have a solution to this disaster, one of such magnitude that we can't even begin to imagine the toll it will eventually take? on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
I'm assuming you mean *martial* law? Are you sure that no one has been deployed? I think you need to tell that to the 70 deputies that left about 2 hours ago or the people that are already there. The main concern at this point in time is to get people out. Then they will deal with the looters. on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
Proof of people dying on overpasses? If they are on an overpass, then most likely they at least safe. The guardsmen are following orders, now is not the time for insubordination. on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
Btw, I'm redneck's wife and he works for the govt./agency you just had a swipe at. I'll be sure to let him know that you have all kinds of solutions to our current disaster as soon as he gets home (make that *when* he gets home, since he's not been home much since Katrina hit). Oh, and I did talk to him earlier on the phone and I told him what a lovely, constructive post you'd written. He asked me to invite you to come work with him. He said that he's sure he can find you something to do. on 08/31/05 at 10:36:17, burnt-toast wrote:
God help us all, we've become a nation without spellers. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Aug 31st, 2005, 4:54pm Tom--You know what? You are welcome to your opinion. You don't like the Red Cross? Fine. I can live with that. But please, find some organization and help. If you want, I can direct you to the Coast Guard Mutual Assitance program. I've been giving money to them since 1986. www.uscg.org http://www.uscg.org/CoastGuard.aspx?tabid=148 |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Aug 31st, 2005, 5:01pm on 08/31/05 at 12:27:33, floridian wrote:
The Governor who must call in National Guard/Reserves just called in the 60% of the National Guard available to respond to her state. What took her so long? The roads into the region are clearly not all flooded. FEMA is just projecting ice being available to the Region in 10 days not getting it into the city proper. I've watched numerous Discovery Channel specials on this very disaster. It was never a matter of if, it was a matter of when. Yet the response is reactionary not proactive as if no one ever expected it to really happen or planned for the results. Good leaders lead by being prepared - doesn't say much for the leaders managing this problem. Anyone who takes this as being "negative" is free to do so but it is the sad truth that must be faced. I find unprepairedness to be the poorest form of leadership. Tom |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jonny on Aug 31st, 2005, 5:01pm I dont give a fuck what anyone says about anyone....I just know that these dudes kick some serious ass when it comes to saving folks!!!!! See for yourself, damn it!! http://www.steakandcheese.com/content/detail.asp?ID=21755&type=1&page=1 |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Aug 31st, 2005, 5:08pm on 08/31/05 at 16:01:17, TomM wrote:
The answer is yes - but only twice. I've also personally comforted another human being as he deficated and wet himself while dying. I have nothing to brag about. Identifying and admitting that we have a problem is the first step in finding a solution. Reactionary responses to a known potential disaster doesn't cut it with me. Our government is so intent on doing everything it was never intended to do that is it overlooking its real responsibilities to "The People" and the country. Tom |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Aug 31st, 2005, 5:20pm on 08/31/05 at 17:08:15, burnt-toast wrote:
OK. True statement. But I also asked "What have you done?" Specifically, to help w/ the hurricane relief. Let's not turn this into a dick wagging competition and determine who is the 'better' person b/c they did X, Y, or Z. Be procative, help w/ some REAL solutions. That is all I ask. Jonny--that video is awesome. But then again, I'm kinda biassed. TomM |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Sandy_C on Aug 31st, 2005, 5:20pm on 08/31/05 at 16:36:15, Jonny wrote:
Jonny's right! Thanks Tom. You may never get the thanks that you deserve for what you do, but we appreciate all your efforts. And I'm not going to brag either, but I have saved one life, and sent my donation to the Red Cross for Katrina's devastation. It happened in my country! I also donated to the Red Cross for the Indian Ocean tsunami. I do this because, God forbid, my neighborhood suffers a disaster of this matgitude and I hope that others would donate to help us. Just read that the governor of Louisiana says there could be thousands of dead, floating in the water, stuck in their attics, wedged under debris. I know there is looting going on. Watch what most are taking - food stuffs, cartons of Pepsi, clothing. Yes, there are always the a$$holes who take the TV's, CD players, phones, etc. But most people have no food, no water, no medicines, nothing, they are just trying to survive. Shoot the guy carrying the TV out of a store, but let the guy carrying baby formula take it. Just MHO. Sandy |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Aug 31st, 2005, 5:23pm on 08/31/05 at 16:36:15, Jonny wrote:
Thank you but stop. This is not about me. This is about helping those who are in need. on 08/31/05 at 17:20:56, Sandy_C wrote:
Thank you but stop. This is not about me. This is about helping those who are in need. on 08/31/05 at 17:20:56, Sandy_C wrote:
Ditto! TomM |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by kcopelin on Aug 31st, 2005, 7:29pm Okay y'all, this really is Kathy-Linda already went home disgusted. Thank you to every single person who sacrificed their energy, time, money, helping the victims of Hurricane Katrina. I am a Hurricane Andrew survivor and know personally what it is like to see news coverage of my home flattened. I know how it feels to have neighbors too stubborn to evacuate and not make it. I know a measure of what those folks are going through and I guaran-damn-tee this bickering finger-pointing and the kinda crap I read about the Red Cross isn't helpin' at all. Stop. Pray. Give what you can to whatever organization you feel good about. Do not use the suffering of your fellow man as a platform for your agenda. It should be a launch pad for your compassion. That's all I have to say right now-am still trying to call Edna-circuits are busy...will keep trying. PFDAN to all, Kathy |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Aug 31st, 2005, 7:32pm on 08/31/05 at 17:20:00, TomM wrote:
I already answered this - my money went to the Salvation Army. BTW - I regularly contribute to two very proven and worthy agencies - The Salvation Army and St. Judes. Not just during the holidays or when they have fund drives or when there is a disaster - regularly. Tom |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by DonnaHar on Aug 31st, 2005, 7:50pm I have some very strong feelings about the lack of preparation, too. We've talked for many years about "THE BIG ONE" just around the corner", or "this might be the year we get hit with THE BIG ONE", or the weather man's favorite "we're way past due for "THE BIG ONE". While I think both Tom's have made valid points, I fault our government from the Pres. on down for not getting people out of harms way. We watched this thing bare down on them for a couple days. We saw the roads clogged for at least 24 hours or more. We should have had an evacuation plan in effect years ago. Another thing, the gas stations, who filled their tanks up days before the storm at a lesser price, sure took advantage by raising their prices before refilling their tanks. I'm not trying to be argumentive and I am not the worlds best speller and I do not know all the facts, so please don't tear me apart. I think everyone has a right to post their thoughts. If they're wrong, we can discuss without trying to make fools out of each other. And by the way, what does a shortage of natural gas have to do with oil? Why are we anticipating a shortage or price increase in that? This is a valid question, not a jab. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Aug 31st, 2005, 7:52pm The logistics of the rescue effort are beyond comprehension. No arm chair coaching here. Today I donated to the Red Cross and the Salvation Army. Godspeed to both organizations. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Aug 31st, 2005, 8:14pm on 08/31/05 at 16:53:37, deltadarlin wrote:
Tom Said Quote:
As I said, I realize there are folks/agencies doing what they can. I am certain your husband is one of them. However, Deployment of resources days after a storm that was known to be imminent and now past doesn't make sense. Yes evacuation of the area is a priority but who was responsible for coordination/mobilization of rescue/recovery/relief services into the area as soon as it was safe? I surely hope the multiple agencies involved can plan and manage multiple concurrent tasks. I'm not saying move equipment and supplies into harms way just prepare and stage it where it can be deployed in a more timely fashon. My old boss always said it great to gather information, but information is useless if you wait for find something to use it on. Use information to be proactive and avoid the problems you can, understand the potential for other problems and be prepared with a plan when you can't avoid one. Given the well documented/long understood results of a storm of this magnitude hitting the Gulf coast and the known fact that is was a matter of when - not if it would happen. Given the days agencies had to respond prior to landfall - The response is very reactive instead of proactive. I apologize for my spelling - I need a hot-link to spellcheck. Tom |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by eyes_afire on Aug 31st, 2005, 8:29pm on 08/31/05 at 19:50:24, DonnaHar wrote:
I think alot has to do with the extraction and production techniques of the natural gas. Natural gas is often associated with oil reserves... and the big oil companies do the extraction. If the extraction rigs and processes are damaged, then output is affected. http://www.naturalgas.org/naturalgas/production.asp --- Steve |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Lizzie2 on Aug 31st, 2005, 8:36pm Well - I imagine that preparation for a storm of this magnitude would have required WAY more time than the amount of time known about this particular hurricane. This is where we learn from mega disasters of any kind..... Unfortunately, we can't plan or be prepared for everything that happens in this life. I don't care if it's seconds, minutes, hours, or a few days - you have to give people credit for doing the very best that they can under the circumstances - I've always been a firm believer in the fact that criticising or tearing someone down for something done (or not done) in the past that can't be changed is really pointless and actually rather cruel. We can't go back and change the days before the storm or the years before the storm. We have to move forward with the current situation - there's no sense in pointing fingers and assigning blame - Why? Does it make everything suddenly better if someone said, "It's my fault..." - No...many people are dead, homes and whole cities destroyed - nothing can change what's already happened. What purpose does assigning blame really serve? It is a tragic way to learn new methods of preparing for natural disasters, but frankly in Philadelphia we do terrorism drills once a year - and I know we failed at least one. Each one just shows you how even when you think you are prepared, you're really not prepared at all. Just not possible to really know just what is involved until it happens - and then you see with more clarity that there were things nobody anticipated. Many many thanks to all who have been spending countless hours in the relief efforts. People who do this are people who have committed their lives to the service of others. One of the hardest jobs there is in this world....and no, there aren't bonuses created out of the fundraisers. :-/ Prayers and vibes to the south, Carrie |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Aug 31st, 2005, 8:55pm You know. I think I'll wait till a better time to be critical of anyones efforts. You can second guess and analyze to your hearts content later on. Now is the time to help out anyway you can. Personally I find the topic of this thread disgusting. Never mind what others have or haven't done. The question is what are YOU doing right now to help. Quote:
Well said. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Lizzie2 on Aug 31st, 2005, 9:43pm Ah - check it out - on the special on ABC they were just showing a neonatal unit. Doctors and nurses who stayed behind to help patients who need them in order to live. It truly is a job out of dedication and love - this is the way that people survive... coming together to save lives no matter what it takes... This is the stuff that should remind all of us about the TRUE human spirit - ah now I'm in tears watching this NICU story....too close to home... They'd never survive if people didn't care enough or risk their lives in order to keep them alive and safe. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Melissa on Aug 31st, 2005, 9:49pm I just watched that story Carrie. It put hope back into my heart that there are people who actually CARE to help out there. :'( |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Lizzie2 on Aug 31st, 2005, 9:53pm on 08/31/05 at 21:49:03, Melissa wrote:
Amen to that Mel - it's a good reminder - even for those of us who do that job every day - because it really sometimes is easy to forget about the real reasons we signed on for this job. Gonna post a story about something I did today - but in a new thread. It completely reminded me why I am a neonatal nurse. :) People really do care and the world isn't just about money - cuz if it was, then there wouldn't be caregivers living paycheck to paycheck to do an absolutely ruthless job. It really is a good world out there, in spite of it all - and I say that from both the side of the nurse and the side of the patient - I'm forever indebted to those who have shown true caring in my own times of need. Just felt the need to share that reminder of the good shining through - glad you saw it as well! Hugz, Carrie :) |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Redneck on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:02pm You know I really shouldn't have read most of this. I am to tired, beaten down. Now I deleted what I typed first. This is a free country, say what you want. Just don't make the mistake of saying it to my face. 9 am saturday morning my world changed. It will never be the same. Nuff said ps: tell CNN and FOX News and the rest I said fuck off! |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Melissa on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:06pm Redneck, try to get some sleep if you can, take care of yourself....and THANK YOU. mel |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by maffumatt on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:18pm I cant even believe this thread is even posted. Sad. Some people will capitalize of anything......... |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jimi on Aug 31st, 2005, 10:43pm I agree Maff. Seems like when a disaster happens some people immedietely start looking for someone to blame. I have seen it all my life. I saw it on 9-11, I have seen it in my job and it never ceases to amaze me. Speaking of the catastaphe, these things bring out who a person really is. You see acts of courage, acts of kindness, acts of generosity. You see the real person when trouble comes. You see the under belly of society as well. You think that we are a civilized society until something likes this happen and you see the predators come out and you realize that the only thing that is holding them at bay is the police.And when there are no police to stop them, they take over. You saw it during the blackout in NY, in the streets of LA and you see it there. I am just glad that I am retired and don't have to deal with it anymore. Redneck, I have been in your shoes and I know how stressful it has been for you these past 4 days. Get some rest, it will let up. God Bless all the good people in this country who rises to the occasion and helps their fellow man in this terrible, unprecidented, act of nature on this country. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TxBasslady on Aug 31st, 2005, 11:18pm on 08/31/05 at 22:43:28, Jimi wrote:
Yes....and so many of them do it "from the heart." I have to say...that the Coast Guard has done a remarkable job. These guys have rescued so many folks. At some point this afternoon, they had rescued in access of 2,000. Even when the sun goes down...and dark approaches, they keep on going. Such dedication..and this has to be a very taxing assignment. To my Redneck buddy...thanks Jimbo, for all that you do. I know you're tired...and weary. There's really no end in sight right now, but hang in there, sweetie. :-* I'll be talkin' to you soon. Much love, Jimbo Jean |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by mcf69 on Aug 31st, 2005, 11:28pm Tom, Having been involved in emergency services for 10 years all I can say is stop armchair quaterbacking and go down to your local Red Cross office, get an application and join a disaster response team. I'm sorry if I sound a little terse, but it pisses me off when people stand back and criticize when they have no idea what it is like to be involved in responding to a disaster, whether small or large. Like I tell the people who piss and moan when we don't save a building, or respond fast enough to their call when they have a stomach ache, get involved yourself, and walk a mile in our shoes. Quote:
Jimbo- Hang in there buddy, know how you're feeling, just remember to get some rest and take care of yourself...... |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by deltadarlin on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:23am Just to let everybody know, redneck got the call at 4:45 this morning. Right now, don't know where he's going or what he's going to do, just know that he's going south. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:23am Quote:
There you have it. Anything we can do for you Jimbo? On a personal level I mean. Supplies, cash, whatever. Just say the word and figure out a way to get it to you. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by jcmquix on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:27am on 09/01/05 at 06:23:15, deltadarlin wrote:
Just wanted to say that Our Prayers will be with you Both... Please be SAFE.... God please watch over all the People that are trying to help out in this time of need... and return them to their Families as soon as possible.... In our Thought's & Prayer's jcmquix (Charlie) & Sassy_lady (Jolene) |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by DonnaHar on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:44am My prayers and best wishes are with you, too, and all of the others that own hearts big enough to fit other people into them. I think that in times of great disaster, we all are in such disbelief that we say things we could have worded differently. We let our relief valves spill over for lack of any other form of control over a situation too awful to handle emotionally. I can't imagine any one of us not appreciating and being in awe of what our rescue people are doing. Any grumbling on my part was directed at those who had the power to have all of the big equipment now being used to evacuate those poor people, and didn't use it before the storm hit, to get them out of harms way. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by deltadarlin on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:52am I hope this is going to be my last reponse to anyone criticizing the way things are being handled. YOU WERE/ARE NOT HERE. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT WENT ON BESIDE WHAT YOU HAVE READ/HEARD FROM THE MEDIA. LAY OFF THE PEOPLE HERE. WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITHOUT HAVING TO LISTEN TO PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT THE WAY THINGS HAVE BEEN HANDLED. Sorry folks, this whole fucking post has upset me horribly. To those of you who have offered kind words and support, thank-you so much, it is really appreciated. To those of you who have complained and bitched about the way things have been handled, shut up, get in your vechicle, come on down and I'm sure that redneck will be able to provide you with a pass to get past the state police so that you can offer your expert advice and services. Note: Jimbo said that he won't be going to New Orleans or close, so that's a relief for me. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by rickyshot on Sep 1st, 2005, 7:38am on 08/31/05 at 20:55:28, don wrote:
Here Here Don. BTW here is a touching story. Yesterday I went to the bank to get a money order for the Red Cross. When the teller saw who I was making out the check for and where it was going, she waived the 6.50 check fee. It is a small gesture like that , that means so much. God bless her. Redneck, Gator and all who are there. Send the word. We are ready with cash. Frank has my phone number. Let me know. I live in cold ass Canada. If you want to relocate, you gotta a place to kick off. I had lost my home and everything years ago and started over here like a refugee so I have a little understanding of what y'all are going through (emphasis on the little) |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Sep 1st, 2005, 7:49am Quote:
I live in incomprehensable Boston. My home is open to you and your families if you need to shake it off. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Frank_W on Sep 1st, 2005, 7:52am Hang in there, Jim. Get whatever rest you possibly can. Thanks for all that you're doing to help. My best to you, -Frank |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Sep 1st, 2005, 7:56am Focus on this Tom: Coast Guard = 1000 (+) rescues National Guard = Countless rescues and enforcement Armed Forces = Thousands of MREs being delivered US Navy = 3 ships full of drinking water on the way US Army Corp. of Engineers = working on Levee breeches Salvation Army = Thousands of meals and clothing Red Cross = Medical supplies and hospital support People = Donating cash, clothing, food, time, expertise, opening their homes. Ford Motor Company = Deferred all car payments Walmart = Opened its doors plus a cash donation to relief efforts Thats all I got, I'm sure there is more Quit your whining and do something helpful. (Had to get that out) |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Sep 1st, 2005, 8:07am on 08/31/05 at 23:28:43, mcf69 wrote:
We've experienced the total loss of one home to a disaster and assisted as much as humanly possible as 25 others were lost as well. No state or federal disaster was declared so there was no help offered, the problem was too small for anyone to care except the Salvation Army and much later the Red Cross. We lost access to our current home when Ivan took our private bridge. I drove my heavy equipment into the flood waters to divert as much water from two other neighbors homes as well. I assisted those two neighbors in saving their belongings and rebuilding following the flood. Together we coordinated months of planning and rebuilding of our bridge to restore access to our properties. I've twice personally walked in your shoes. Putting my life on hold for years dealing with the effects, physical, mental and financial stress of two disasters. While rebuilding after Ivan the three families took time to identify why Ivan's waters had such and effect on our properties and developed a plan. From that we engineered and rebuilt our bridge to withstand higher waters and allow water to flow around its pillars, through it's deck and sides in the event of severe flooding. We installed piping in our private road to allow flood water to flow through it instead of being backed up by it. we raised the lower portions along the upper stream bank that allowed flood waters to spill into the flood plain. We established an call procedure and evacuation plan for the families so they have somewhere to go, and a procedure for getting vehicles to the other side of the bridge in case of severe flooding. We've taken proactive measures to minimize the potential for damage and have a plan for dealing with the worst situation. Tom |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Melissa on Sep 1st, 2005, 8:53am From your last post... on 09/01/05 at 08:07:23, burnt-toast wrote:
From your 1st post... Quote:
Arn't you contradicting yourself here Tom? You admit yourself that you weren't prepared for what Ivan did, yet you just expect for the government to be prepared for what Katrina did... I don't think ANYONE could have been prepared enough for this scope of a disaster. We cannot control what mother nature will do. That is what Carrie and others have tried to explain, and you have experienced unpreparedness first hand yourself. Everyone is looking for someone to blame in this, but can you honestly say that we can be ready for crap like this 100%? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Pinkfloyd on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:02am on 08/31/05 at 20:14:18, burnt-toast wrote:
C'mon Tom. You knew long ago that you would be writing things people would read. The proactive response would have been to learn how to spell in the first place. Doing a good job would have meant looking up the correct spelling of the words "as" you used them if you weren't sure. Using a spell check to correct your mistakes AFTER you've made them, is nothing short of REactive. All this after gathering all that spelling information all these years....years of wasted information gathering. IMHO, you should have been much more prepared and had a dictionary at your side BEFORE you began writing. Bobw |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:12am on 09/01/05 at 07:56:30, don wrote:
One more plug for my boys: http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,uscg1_083005.00.html?ESRC=coastguard.nl on 09/01/05 at 09:02:40, Pinkfloyd wrote:
THAT is the funniest post yet! Thank you, Bob |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by mcf69 on Sep 1st, 2005, 10:18am on 09/01/05 at 08:07:23, burnt-toast wrote:
Well, there you go Tom, Fema is looking for private contractors with heavy equipment to voluteer to help trying to plug the levees. I think you'd feel better by being there helping than sitting here complaining......... |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jill on Sep 1st, 2005, 12:41pm Quote:
Complaining does nothing right now, a pointless use of words - action is what is important.. Everyone knows how many people are dying, sees all of those pictures of those with no food or water, and knows all about the looters but what about those risking their lives to find survivors? Those that are stepping up to the plate and helping people? I just heard from the pastor of our church, we are in Texas, and she siad that the church has been asked to house refugees. We have a local organization called Family promise which gives families a place to live, food to eat and keeps these families together.. So our church has stepped up and we have some coming - will I be staying overnight with them, Heck ya.. CH and all! I wonder how many other organizations like this are coming these people's aids? And yet we hear all of the negative.. it is amazing how the US steps up and becomes one when crisis strikes its fellow americans.. remarkable and we should be proud of this.. just something to remember. And I am thankful to all of those that are helping, even if just in the tiniest way, we shouldnt complain - maybe we should have been better prepared and maybe we could have done things differently but the point is that what is done is done.. now we need to act and not say 'what if..' Just my thoughts.. Jill |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Svenn on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:12pm on 09/01/05 at 14:06:52, Svenn wrote:
Thats what YOUR president Bush just said in a intervue on TV over here Svenn |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Melissa on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:14pm Um...Svenn? He has said nothing like that here, and I've been watching the news all day. :-/ Did you watch him say it himself or was he being quoted? From what you've been telling us these past few days, it seems your media over there tends to over dramatize (no offense). |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Margi on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:16pm Mel, I just posted to Ree in another thread. I heard a similar thing on the radio at lunch. Not from Bush, himself, but Canada has also been told to hold off. I don't understand. :( |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by ghost62 on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:19pm Me either that would be absurd if it is true |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Melissa on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:19pm What I have seen Bush say, is that we are going to wait on asking for help until they can really assess the situation, see what we ourselves can actually do, and get a list together for what is needed. Right now they're still on a search and rescue. I really have not heard him say anything about us not accepting any help at all! I think that his words are being misunderstood....or maybe I am misunderstanding?? [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Frank_W on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:22pm No. You're right, Mel. It makes no sense to have an outpouring of humanitarian aid just sitting around, with no way to distribute it because things are still such an awful mess. They've had to call off boat rescues because it's too dangerous, and now, there are snipers shooting at the helicopters... Mad world.... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by nani on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:22pm I heard that he said that, too. "Handle it ourselves". Unfortunately, I have no idea where I heard it. :-[ |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Svenn on Sep 1st, 2005, 2:56pm on 09/01/05 at 14:14:37, Melissa wrote:
Clear words from his own mouth Mell Svenn |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Melissa on Sep 1st, 2005, 3:09pm Is that all he said? Just those 2 sentences? I can't believe that is all he would say and leave it at that. :-/ Is there a transcript on the net from the interview I can read? thx (btw, I think we SHOULD be able to handle it ourselves. If we can't, then we are not the country everyone thinks we are... JMO :-X) |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Sep 1st, 2005, 3:20pm Quote:
Logistics. The situation has to be assesed and the resources allocated appropriately. I'm sure we will not be declining offers of help. Its timing and distribution that is critical. I'm sure our old pal George once again is not clear on any of that and cant communicate it properly. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jonny on Sep 1st, 2005, 3:47pm It seems to me that this thread needs two minutes of comic relief ;;D Redneck, this one is for you buddy.....Smile or I will hunt you down....LOL ;) http://www.steakandcheese.com/downloads/Warning.wmv |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Bob P on Sep 1st, 2005, 3:53pm Having ridden out a few 7+ shakers here on the west coast I can say that it's just fact that when a disaster of this size happens, you're on your own for at least the first week. It takes at least that long for authorities to remedy immediate threats to life, assess the situation and mobilize the appropriate response. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Pinkfloyd on Sep 1st, 2005, 4:42pm Although CNN only seems to think there is a disaster and people in need, in New Orleans, this disaster is widespread. An area approximately the size of Greece, Nepal, Tunisia, or Honduras....one and one-half times the size of Portugal or Iceland.....1/2 the size of the UK, Poland or Germany......has been flattened. A million people without a home. FWIW Bobw |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jonny on Sep 1st, 2005, 4:44pm on 09/01/05 at 16:42:15, Pinkfloyd wrote:
BINGO!!!....Dude! |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by ghost62 on Sep 1st, 2005, 4:51pm That is the point Ive been trying to make lets get aid to the other areas now too. Thanks bob |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by deltadarlin on Sep 1st, 2005, 5:13pm Spot on there! There are a lot of areas that people aren't even talking about. Jonny, I would download it for redneck, but on dial-up, I could grow old and gray (well, maybe not gray, not as long as there's Miss Clairol), waiting for it. Even this far north (we live outside of Monroe, LA), it's pure chaos. I handle Wal Marts and a lot of shelves are bare (no baby food, no diapers). I may have b!tched about Wal Mart in the past, but if I do so in the future, please feel free to kick my a$$. Wal Mart/Sams Club has already donated a million dollars to the Salvation Army. They have set up 10 mini pharmacies to assist people and they are resupplying all the ambulances and the list goes on. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by thomas on Sep 1st, 2005, 5:19pm Talked to my Mom today. They just got running water at her home today. Still no power, it's over 100 degrees and no A/C. The stores are out of food. People are fighting over what few things are left. There is no fuel. And you don't hear me saying what a shitty job the people are doing. If you haven't done it, been in the shit (literally) and scum with sandbags and handing out food to people that will come at night and steal your shit, quit bitching. Unless you have a better idea and the money to make it work more efficiently. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by BobG on Sep 1st, 2005, 5:30pm on 09/01/05 at 14:16:11, Margi wrote:
Thank you Margi and to all the Canadians that want to help. At this point in time it would probably be best to start gathering the equipment needed for a massive cleanup. Please sent 5000 graders, 12,000 backhoes and about 20,000 dump trucks. Nothing can get done until the water drains and then the mud will have to be removed. The equipment won't be need for at least another week. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by deltadarlin on Sep 1st, 2005, 5:32pm Heard from redneck a little while ago. He's in Baton Rouge. I have no clue as to what he's doing, but I think he's dealing with the strategic stockpile. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by floridian on Sep 1st, 2005, 5:37pm Well, I have kept calm, have made my donations to the Red Cross, was not eager to say anything political. But Congress isn't going to wait, they have a special session starting soon. So here's some food for thought. Quote:
Politicians do a much better job of looting than common thugs. Generally the public doesn't even notice when the their elected officials do it. (removed this paragraph, then reinserted it for Thomas :) ) Tax cuts for the rich, an unecessary war in Iraq, and the disaster in New Orleans. The three ARE related. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by thomas on Sep 1st, 2005, 5:40pm on 09/01/05 at 17:37:35, floridian wrote:
Now you KNOW that I agree 100% with that sentiment right there. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Sandy_C on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:01pm on 09/01/05 at 16:42:15, Pinkfloyd wrote:
And that's the bottom line. Thanks, Bob. it kinda puts it in perspective, doesn't it? And Jonny, Whenever we get into these long, heated threads, keep the comic relief coming. We need it. Sandy |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by floridian on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:26pm on 09/01/05 at 18:01:56, Sandy_C wrote:
No, part of that statement is false, and the other part is true but irrelevant and misleading. CNN has covered more than New Orleans - I have seen CNN coverage on the ground from Biloxi, Mississippi and aerial coverage from other places. And I have flipped channels, I don't watch CNN around the clock. I don't think any news network is ignoring or hiding damage. Small countries like Iceland and Portugal are geographically the size of medium sized states in the US, and medium US states are the size of many small countries. But if people don't know anything about world geography, comparing the size of something they are somewhat familiar with to a vague idea like 'countries that are far away' doesn't clarify. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jonny on Sep 1st, 2005, 6:34pm on 09/01/05 at 18:26:37, floridian wrote:
And the point of that statement is what? Seems to me Fubar was just generalizing. Picking at the seams, Flo? Edit to add: Nit picking is not like you ;;D |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Pinkfloyd on Sep 1st, 2005, 7:12pm on 09/01/05 at 18:26:37, floridian wrote:
Hey Flo, The truthfulness of the statement is based upon opinion, hence the use of the word "seems." And yes, it seems that way to me. I've seen some of the same clips on CNN, which is what I was talking about, for the last three days. (so your inclusion of other networks is what is irrelevant.) Yes, they do show other places but concentrate on NO, IMHO. Yes its bad there. Its bad in many places. This storm produced tornados all the way up into Tennessee. How many pictures have you seen of those? How many from all over Georgia? on 09/01/05 at 18:26:37, floridian wrote:
One thing that was meant to clarify was the size of the disaster to the people from outside the US. There are plenty here wondering what is happening. People in London might find it easier to understand the scope of things if they know that it covers half the area of the UK. The comparisons were made to help make clear, the vast area that has to be searched, looking for people that may be in worse shape than being hot and thirsty in a dome. 95,000 square miles is one hell of a large area to check and see if anyone has a 2x4 sticking through someone's mother. I'm just getting tired of hearing the reporters yelling "where are they" everytime they find a pocket of people that hasn't yet seen someone in a uniform, as if THEY are the only ones that care. Its a bad situation no matter how you look at it and everyone is justified in some amount of frustration and anger, but also some pride in what IS being done. That includes you and me Flo, IMHO. Bobw |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by burnt-toast on Sep 1st, 2005, 8:07pm I’ve chosen an unpopular route with this post and accept well-intentioned heat. Let me clarify some things for folks that may have misconstrued my meaning and will end my input with this post. If you want to take some part of this personally, feel free to assonate my character; spelling, grammar, human value or whatever makes you feel better. Rest assured that I have done everything I can afford to do at this time. If your job or life allows you to directly participate God bless you and keep you safe. I see emergency response personnel, volunteers, agencies and average people working hard and suffering the effects of this disaster. I realize many are doing everything possible to conduct rescues and manage relief efforts. My heart and prayers go out to them, their families and the victims. I am fully aware that the scope of this disaster exceeds anything in modern U.S. history and that it is impossible to be 100% prepared for everything. However, I am thoroughly offended by the poor preparations and planning of government agencies responsible for minimizing (as much as possible) damage from disasters with high probability, responsible for effective evacuation/shelter/relief and disaster recovery plans that include an established chain of command prior to, and throughout the disaster recovery. I won’t go thorough the list of issues that I believe indicate most of these things are missing, most are there to see if you want to. At the same time I don’t overlook the selfless efforts of those actively participating. This was not a surprise; it was a matter of when, not if a hurricane of this magnitude would hit the Gulf States. The unavoidable damage couldn’t be stopped. But long understood yet unaddressed damage control options and lack of efficient mobilization of needed supplies, equipment and manpower to affected areas is still a problem days after the disaster. I don’t sway to the most popular viewpoint just to be popular, and won’t start now. I guess I’m not a crowd pleasing Ra-Ra-Sys-Boom-Ba person - just someone that says and does what he believes needs said and done. We can’t stop disasters from occurring but we can be more prepared when there exists high certainty that disasters will eventually strike. I will not pretend government agencies apparently ill prepared for a known disaster came prepared just for the sake of our nation’s feel good attitude. If news reports and media coverage are all some form of propaganda effort it’s a good one. This is one responsibility government cannot delegate and to me it appears the proactive measures were ignored and good preparation/execution was and afterthought. The massive effort needed to deal with this disaster must now be made and there is no way to alter that fact. The message I attempted to deliver was we can’t overlook these failures if we are to achieve better for the future. Everyone familiar with my posts knows that I care deeply about all people and help in every way possible, to the best of my abilities and resources, every day that I can. I try to conduct my life while assisting others who I have no reason to care for other than simple human compassion. I am proud of what my family and I have endured and how I treat others. If anyone finds that offensive they are entitled to their views and opinions. Tom |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Sep 1st, 2005, 8:32pm You couldn't just post the first two paragraphs and let it go could you? Christ. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by floridian on Sep 1st, 2005, 8:58pm on 09/01/05 at 18:34:07, Jonny wrote:
I'm in a foul mood, sorry all - the idea that the levies sunk 4 feet over the last decade while the funding to raise them was cut leads me to believe that most of the loss of life could have been prevented, and I don't think CNN's recent coverage is to blame. Picking nits is good - gouging someone's scalp in the process is not. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Charlie on Sep 1st, 2005, 8:59pm Here I am 59 years old and nothing comes close to this thing. It's one time that I'm glad cable news is making an issue. I think it keeps things honest. I can't find anything positive in criticizing the rescue agenies now. Wait awhile. I have to believe that people in that part of the country know how to deal their climate too. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by DonnaHar on Sep 1st, 2005, 9:32pm I don't think Tom's post is criticizing those working toward relief or in helping those in need now. I think (and it is also my opinion) that we knew that this would one day happen and we did nothing to prepare for it. We should have helped those people who could not evacuate do so. The hospitals should have been evacuated before the storm hit.........we had days to prepare for the removal of people out of harms way and we (meaning our government on any level) did nothing. When Charlie hit Port Charlotte a year ago, we learned a huge lesson......get out before it hits....and the same with Andrew when it hit Homestead. Hurricanes' fury is not something new. Read our own posts a couple of days before Katrina hit.......we were all predicting disaster. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by deltadarlin on Sep 2nd, 2005, 6:58am My last post on this thread. I keep hearing how *we* weren't prepared and how *we* didnt' evacuate people properly and how *we* didn't have a good plan in place. *We* had an workable plan in place. *We* evacuated an unheard amount of people in a short amount of time. *We* were prepared as much as humanly possible given a disaster of this magnitude. It is shitty here and *we* know it. Things are not happening as quick as they should and *they* are at fault. Now, I've pointed my finger at those who haven't done their job. Now I offer the Hawaiian salute to those who seem to get apparent pleasure at continuing to berate the way things are being handled. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by thomas on Sep 2nd, 2005, 8:50am on 09/02/05 at 06:58:44, deltadarlin wrote:
Amen. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by BobG on Sep 2nd, 2005, 12:28pm on 09/02/05 at 06:58:44, deltadarlin wrote:
d'darlin, you are 100% correct. There are too many Monday morning quarterbacks that think they have all the answers even though they are not there, have never been there, have never seen a hurricane, tornado, blizzard, flood or disaster of any kind. They piss and whine from the comfort of their lounge chair about how the world is screwed up and nobody listen to their (bad) advice. Everybody is wrong except them! Everybody is out to get them! phucc'em all. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Bob P on Sep 2nd, 2005, 12:30pm Anobody know of a good "deprogramming" outfit for Charlie? |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by BlueMeanie on Sep 2nd, 2005, 1:21pm We should have been there to evacuate and send aid within 24 hours of the hurricane. All 200,000 or so that are stranded should have been picked up by now. They have boats don't they ? 20 feet of water should have never slowed anyone down. We've known about a possible disaster of this sort for 200 years now. Why didn't the pres do something ? It's all his fault of course. So what if people that are trying to help are getting shot at. Rescuers should just dodge the bullets and keep helping. And what's up with the gas supply. The pres should have known that the pipelines would be distrubted and had crews standing by 24/7 ready for a quick 2 day repair. We should be up and running by now. I demand answers dammit. And what about California ? When the BIG earthquake hits. The pres should have 100,000 helos standing by east of the fault line to pick up stranded people when it happens. If terrorist attack, wherever that may be, we should have people staged throughout the country in every city 24/7 prepared for everything possible. I think the pres should NEVER go on vacation again. That would have stopped this whole mess we're in right now and will definately prevent anything else from happening. :-[ |
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Title: Time for the Right to change their tune?? Post by floridian on Sep 2nd, 2005, 2:44pm Ok all you conservatives, time to get on the same page as the president. After justifying the state of the rescue operations for several days, the official policy is now that the response was unnaceptable. "Several hours later, President Bush headed to the devastated region to survey the damage. As he was leaving the White House, Bush told reporters that he believes the relief operations so far "are not acceptable." |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by TomM on Sep 2nd, 2005, 2:59pm on 09/01/05 at 20:07:06, burnt-toast wrote:
Tom---I now understand your point of view. Thank you for claifying. [quote author=BlueMeanie link=board=general;num=1125502577;start=75#86 date=09/02/05 at 13:21:19]I think the pres should NEVER go on vacation again. That would have stopped this whole mess we're in right now and will definately prevent anything else from happening. :-[/quote] This is a joke, right??? [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Bob P on Sep 2nd, 2005, 3:18pm Come on Florida. The Pres. hasn't and isn't going to have squat to do with this recovery mission. His job is go out and put on a show. There are many unheard names that are running this show. Disasters are clusterfucks no matter how a good a job is done. |
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Title: Re: Time for the Right to change their tune?? Post by maffumatt on Sep 2nd, 2005, 3:30pm on 09/02/05 at 14:44:11, floridian wrote:
and being a conservitive has what to do with the response? guess the evil conservitives are at it again. Hell we even caused the disaster. We snuck in there and shot at the rescuers, looted the stores, you name it we did it. Could it have been done better? Yes. Would Clinton or Kerry done better? Who knows, but I doubt it. edited to add.......to politicize this tragedy is a tragedy...... |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Charlie on Sep 2nd, 2005, 5:38pm I wasn't upset with Bush until he wasted our time standing around hangers and runways looking about as comfortable Pat Roberston at a ERA convention. It's not his thing. I don't think Bush himself has been so bad, but every time that moron at FEMA opens his mouth, it makes you wonder WTF they had in mind when they appointed him. He needs serious help. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Jonny on Sep 2nd, 2005, 6:18pm New Orleans finest at work. http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloadsnew/cj_48377.wmv |
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Title: Re: Time for the Right to change their tune?? Post by floridian on Sep 3rd, 2005, 12:30am on 09/02/05 at 15:30:46, maffumatt wrote:
You use the word politics like there is something wrong with it. Politics involves policy and polity (people). If you just took away all the policies and all the people, then we could depoliticize the situation. The situation has a serious political dimension, yet people are pretending that any one that recognizes it is being rude. Here's what a retired Army Colonel in NO has to say about FEMA (and he works for FEMA): << Col. Terry Ebbert, director of homeland security for New Orleans, concurred and he was particularly pungent in his criticism. Asserting that the whole recovery operation had been "carried on the backs of the little guys for four goddamn days," he said "the rest of the goddamn nation can't get us any resources for security." "We are like little birds with our mouths open and you don't have to be very smart to know where to drop the worm," Colonel Ebbert said. "It's criminal within the confines of the United States that within one hour of the hurricane they weren't force-feeding us. It's like FEMA has never been to a hurricane." >> Did this situation just happen?? People keep using the term 'natural disaster' as an excuse. The storm was a natural phenomenon. But the decision to cut funding to FEMA, to appoint a political hack to head it, and to cut funds for levee maintainence were political. So were the decisions to simply tell the poor, the eldery, the handicapped, and the hospitalized people to get out of town. As was the decision not to mount a major rescue operation as soon as humanly possible. When the Governor of Louisiana won't break out of her tea party mentality to call up the needed resources so that they are ready to go in as soon as the winds calm, then we have a political problem. When the President of the United States makes a statement like "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees" it indicates a big political problem - a leader who is totally out of touch with reality. Every civil engineer, geographer, geologist, meterologist and regional planner in the country were worried about the levees breaking, and half of them were on TV in the 2 days before the storm. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." That statement cost the nation hundreds of lives. Damn right it is political. |
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Title: Re: Time for the Right to change their tune?? Post by Pinkfloyd on Sep 3rd, 2005, 6:43pm on 09/03/05 at 00:30:10, floridian wrote:
OK, so the guy isn't the greatest speaker we've ever had. OK, Maybe one of the worst. Personally, thats my biggest problem with him. I believe that the most important thing a President needs to have is the ability to beat on the pulpit (no pun intended only used an an analogy, so don't go there) and inspire the nation. The "machine" itself is too large for even the President to have much effect on actual day to day operations. Some will say that no real progress was made as far as response, until he showed up down there but my guess would be that he didn't go until he was assured that the "troops" were right behind him. Anyway...to get to the point....you're right, two days before, everyone WAS worried about the levees. Then the storm took a right turn and everyone was talking then about what a break (again, no pun) it was because if it hadn't, the levees may have failed. While things were then being set up to move to everyone else, the levees DID fail, after they thought they had escaped at least that disaster. I imagine that when they did break, no one WAS anticipating it. As far as shouldn't the levees been fixed 5, 10,20, 40 years ago, I guess so, now. Do you have any idea of how many projects never get funded? How many bridges never get repaired that should be? Our intrastructure IS aging rapidly, all over the US. Know how bad our electric grid is? How many people died when the entire northeast lost power for days/weeks? Personally, I think we should remove the rest of the levees and send down 500 gondolas and rename the place New Venice.(after we get everyone out of course) How long ago, (maybe two months?) were we being told that we didn't do enough to help Africa. That we spent to much on ourselves and we should spread it around the world. How can we let people starve in Africa. Please list the countries we should have stopped relief and aid to, to come up with the 14 billion to build the levee system we should have? We'll spend more than that now for sure. I guess we could take that much out of the war on drugs fund. (that would be cool) I suppose we could have sent our boys and girls over to Iraq without Flack jackets and on a 3 bullet ration. If you want to debate the war there, we can do that at another time. Now I'm hearing people in other counties asking how we can let this happen. Countries that have been asking us to help secure their borders, and send our sons and daughters to put their lives on the line for them. Let's ask the people in Bosnia if we should have gone there or rebuilt our levees. Let's ask Sri Lanka if we can have our medical supplies and heavy equipment back...oh, and the billions. Let's just ask them how important 14 billion dollars in aid was to them. How can we let this happen? Well, its simple, we only have so many sons and daughters to go around. Some of you will have to wait until my grandkids are old enough I guess. Sorry. I have to leave in 30 minutes. I'm going to say good bye and good luck to my nephew. He graduated from high school less than 2 years ago. Then he spent a year in Iraq. The last 2 months there were "after" he recovered from an explosion at an entry gate that he and his two best friends were guarding. He was the only survivor that stopped the suicide bomber from getting through to the mess tents. He awoke holding and talking to......one-half of his friend. He just got back stateside 45 days ago. He's shipping out tomorrow with the rest of the Marines, to go to Louisiana. I hope someone asks him what took him so long. >:( Bobw |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by kcopelin on Sep 3rd, 2005, 8:38pm "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." "Citizenship in a Republic," Speech at the Sorbonne, Paris, April 23, 1910 Teddy Roosevelt "Shut up and paddle!" Skipper to Gilligan "Gilligan's Island |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster................ Post by BikerBob on Sep 3rd, 2005, 8:41pm >OK, so the guy isn't the greatest speaker we've ever had. OK, >Maybe one of the worst. Or maybe he's just a fucking idiot with a religious agenda that is not in the best interests of the USA. >The "machine" itself is too large for even the President to have >much effect on actual day to day operations. This is not about day to day operations. It's about allocation of resources in advance and disaster recovery planning in advance. >Anyway...to get to the point....you're right, two days before, >everyone WAS worried about the levees. Then the storm took a >right turn and everyone was talking then about what a break >it was because if it hadn't, the levees may have failed. While > things were then being set up to move to everyone else, >the levees DID fail, after they thought they had escaped at least > that disaster. I imagine that when they did break, no one WAS >anticipating it. I was anticipating it along with about 100 million others in the USA. >As far as shouldn't the levees been fixed 5, 10,20, 40 >years ago, I guess so, now. The levees sank 4 feet in the last 5 years and the funding to raise them was cut to zilch. The funding for New Orleans disaster recovery planning was cut to zilch and FEMA itself became a disaster. >Do you have any idea of how many projects never get funded? >How many bridges never get repaired that should be? Certainly, the San Francisco/Oakland Bay Bridge still hasn't been rebuilt since the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake. I guess all the money went to Africa and Bosnia. >Personally, I think we should remove the rest of the levees >and send down 500 gondolas and rename the place New Venice. >(after we geteveryone out of course) But it's now a disease-ridden toxic waste dump and will be for many years to come. It's as if it got nuked. >How long ago, (maybe two months?) were we being told that we >didn't do enough to help Africa. That we spent to much on >ourselves and we should spread it around the world. >How can we let people starve in Africa. Who's "we"? If the USA can't take care of itself it has no business being the policeman and savior of the world. >to come up with the 14 billion to build the levee system we >should have? We'll spend more than that now for sure. Where did you get the $14 billion number? If the New Orleans Corps of Engineers and FEMA budgets had been approved during the past 5 years the levees would probably have held from the cat 4 glancing blow to New Orleans. >We'll spend more than that now for sure. I guess we could >take that much out of the war on drugs fund. (that would be >cool) That would be WAY cool. >I suppose we could have sent our boys and girls over to Iraq >without Flack jackets and on a 3 bullet ration. Or not have sent them in the first place under false pretenses. >Now I'm hearing people in other counties asking how we can >let this happen. Countries that have been asking us to help >secure their borders, and send our sons and daughters to put >their lives on the line for them. Let's ask the people in Bosnia >if we should have gone there or rebuilt our levees. Let's ask >Sri Lanka if we can have our medical supplies and heavy equipment >back...oh, and the billions. >Let's just ask them how important 14 billion dollars in aid was >to them. >How can we let this happen? Well, its simple, we only have >so many sons and daughters to go around. Some of you will >have to wait until my grandkids are old enough I guess. Sorry. Again, if the USA can't take care of itself it has no business being the policeman and savior of the world. >He's shipping out tomorrow with the rest of the Marines, to go to >Louisiana. I hope someone asks him what took him so long. Angry Nobody here has ever complained about the soldiers and the Marines. It's the allocation of resources and the decisions about deployment that the Bush administration has so miserably mismanaged. BB |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by maffumatt on Sep 3rd, 2005, 10:19pm you made my point for me Flo. |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster................ Post by Pinkfloyd on Sep 4th, 2005, 12:33am No arguments here BB...just a couple talking points... on 09/03/05 at 20:41:09, BikerBob wrote:
Yeah, well, there were thousands of people that live there that didn't believe it. They all didn't stay because the couldn't afford the gas. I agree that it has been "anticipated" by many, for years. I don't think there is an argument there at all. It was always a matter of which one and when. on 09/03/05 at 20:41:09, BikerBob wrote:
Well, some of the money probably went to federal unemployment extensions also. A little went to Bee subsidies and a bunch went to dumping fungicides on MJ plants in Mexico and Coca plants in Columbia. I think the levee money went to logging subsidies approved to save the Spotted Owl. on 09/03/05 at 20:41:09, BikerBob wrote:
If you watch the Discovery channel, this does sound a lot like Venice. :( on 09/03/05 at 20:41:09, BikerBob wrote:
We haven't been isolationists since we entered WW II. I don't think many people in the US really want to go back to that again, they just all want to be able to pick and choose their own set of acceptable "projects." I hope that this event doesn't move us toward isolationism. If London needs us, if Sri Lanks needs us, if Bosnia needs us, I hope we still go and do so knowing in our hearts its the right thing to do. on 09/03/05 at 20:41:09, BikerBob wrote:
Probably is the operative word there. The experts are disagreeing now on whether or not it would have made a difference. Maybe it would have. Maybe the arguments are just CYA. The 14 billion was the amount that was wanted to redo the entire system for what was really needed per the experts. Rebuilding the marshlands, the shipping lanes, replacing the levees, not just raising and supporting. The 250 million was just a minimum stop-gap. IMHO, I just hope we don't let the "whys" slow down the "why nots" of helping where we can. I know both are born from compassion and I hope we can do them both at the same time. Bobw |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by Charlie on Sep 4th, 2005, 1:54am We were spread thin and thanks to Iraq we were caught with our pants down (no fair admitting this though but it's largely true) and with incompetent cronies in charge of FEMA when downgraded and placed under even worse incompetents as only a part of the useless Homeland Security Dept. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by deltadarlin on Sep 4th, 2005, 8:34am How's this for another POV (sent to be by my friend). How about this for differing points of view. Little Johnnie is running around and playing in a refugee shelter when hespies a fire alarm and yanks it. The fire alarm goes off and the facility is evacuated only to findnothing is wrong. The authorities decide that since there needs to be periodic drills, theywill let this serve as the scheduled drill for that day. The media learns about the alarm and shortly the news is out that anarsonist torches the shelter. It is now in ashes with a thousand or more deaths. Soon it is reported that half the city is in flames and the localgovernment just let it happen. The people in authority turned a problem in to a positive experience. AND The news media reported that the government fiddled while Monroe burned. Poor Johnnie! The press now has him convicted of mass murder. And as to the levees and everything else, they've needed rebuilding looooong before Bush took office. They've needed new pumps (those that are there now are *manual* meaning somebody has to go turn the damned things on). We can play *woulda, shoulda, coulda* until hell freezes over and it's not going to do any good. One positive thing that I've seen on this thread is that nobody has played the race card. 'darlin |
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Title: Re: Disaster Response - A Disaster Post by don on Sep 4th, 2005, 8:44am Good the Al Sharpton (model racist) isn't posting. |
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