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Title: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:50am http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003225.htm |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:02am http://wizbangblog.com/archives/006730.php |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:04am One of the groups Cindy is linked to. Hmmmmmmmm mayhap she is more responsible for her own son's death than the president hmmmmmmmm? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1425798/posts |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by nani on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:05am So, now some are telling her how to grieve her dead son because they don't like the groups that have aligned with her? Hmmm. I'm pretty sure it's still a free country. I'm also pretty sure that politicians (including dubya) still work for us. She can follow him around if she wants, it's her right. I have 2 kids...if I lost either in a war based on lies... I'm pretty sure I'd be way more pissed than she is and would not limit my protest to camping on the side of the road. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:08am Read this. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1431186/posts |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:11am on 08/18/05 at 08:05:10, nani wrote:
She already fucking met with the man and thanked him after her son died. Something changed since then, it wasn't the Presidents position on the war. What part of that don't you understand? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:27am on 08/18/05 at 08:05:10, nani wrote:
Mom I gotta agree I too have 2 kids and would feel the same, but The war in Iraq was not based on lies but the media and certian groups have dwelled on only key phrases and act like that is all the prez said. If anyone remembers Iraq had broken over 15 un resolutions and did not declare if and what weapons had been destroyed. They also continullay fired on us planes and troops, and great britian planes and troops. We also where only Still at war with them with a sease fire agreement in place since the gulf war. Iraq was given more that enough time and allowance to comply. They where a credible threat and as the prez said the public may not understand everything as to why we may go after credible threats but we will. Also as I did state before 17+ terrorist training camps in Iraq where shut down due to our attack into the country, most of which directly affiliated with alquida and other extremest groups clainimg to be assotiated with alquida. Those where the guidelines the prez set forth and used. people think there where no WMD's found WRONG! There where alot found and also hidden military weapons and aircraft found. The WMD's may not have been as numerious as thought but the combined power of what was found could have killed thousands, so where exactly is the lies? As in other posts I can give many more examples but would be here a long freakn time doing so. Now as far as Mrs Sheehan goes last month she raved how much she agreed with the prez and how caring he was after she met with him. Now what happened to change her mind? I understand she is a life long war protester but she is also a hipocrate and liar. she tried to get her son to move to canada instead of Re I said REENLISTING he new exactly what he was doing and did so as a volunteer. She just needs to as thomas sd STFU! Ok done for now. Mike |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Sandy_C on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:42am IMHO, Cindy Sheehan began as a grieving mother, asking for some answers as to why her son had to die. Answers to which she was most definitely entitled. This is as it should be. Unfortunately, many anti-war, anti-Bush groups have latched on to her - not for HER reasons, but to further their own agendas. She now has "handlers" from these groups, and has allowed herself to be drawn away from her original purpose. I feel desperately sorry for her loss, as well as all of the other families who have lost a loved one in this war, but her situation has gotten out of hand. Yes, Nani, she absolutely does have every right to camp out and speak out, against the war, and against the President. I just wish she would have continued to use her own words rather than the words of other special interest groups. I detest this war. I was a registered Republican from the time I was old enough to vote, and I have voted in every election, national and local. Before the last presidential election, I changed my registration to "unaffiliated" because I just could not back the Republican party and George W. Bush any longer. They no longer represented my ideals - neither did the Democrats. I can't even remember who was on the ballot besides Bush and Kerry - but I voted for that person. Did I throw my vote away? No, I don't think so. I made a statement - small though it may be, but a statement nonetheless. So shoot me. Sandy God, I know I'm gonna get creamed by this bunch now! :-/ |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:47am Sandy, although I do support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, I agree with you 100%. Nicely written. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Sandy_C on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:59am Thank you Frank, I too support the war in Afganistan 100% because we were going after Bin Ladin. Iraq, from day one, thought it was wrong. I think I am smart enough to realize that we can't bring our troops home now, as much as I would love to see that happen. We began this war in Iraq, doesn't matter at this point why, but we're in it now. If we withdraw now, before the Iraqui government and military are able to manage on their own, we will have created a complete disaster for the entire Middle East. We have to stay the course (I hate that term), until they can handle it on their own, and then we have to GET OUT and LEAVE THEM ALONE. No military presence, no oil, no interfering with their new government. ALONE. Sandy |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 9:53am on 08/18/05 at 08:42:56, Sandy_C wrote:
Yes, and she had already met with the President. Before all of this publicity crap started. Hello??@!!?!?! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by don on Aug 18th, 2005, 10:24am This is just the beginning. Can you say "Vietnam"? IMO Bush has no fucking clue how to get us out of there so he propogandizes the noble causes for us to stay. Bull shit! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 10:38am Aw come on don, Lance dont know how to pull out either but no one is complaining you wont share. Actually troop reduction will be slow and has actually begun. Shoot we are still in Korea and been there since the late 1940's. If need be troops stay to ensure we at home are protected, so be it. That is just the life of the military. And if I am correct wasnt johnson not nixon prez when we went into Vietnam? Wasnt nixon the one that got us out? Hmmmm . |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 10:52am on 08/18/05 at 10:24:09, don wrote:
Last time I checked, we still had troops in Germany, Korea, Japan, Bosnia..................... ::) |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Bob P on Aug 18th, 2005, 10:53am Viet Nam would be US territory now if it weren't for the politicians and the war protesters. Pull out before the place is stabilized and it will collapse, making every life that was lost there one that was lost for nothing. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 10:56am on 08/18/05 at 10:53:07, Bob P wrote:
Perfectly put Bob P, perfect. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 11:16am on 08/18/05 at 10:53:07, Bob P wrote:
Damn straight, Bob. From everything I've read, at the outside, it would have taken only three more months, and the VC would have surrendered. For the people drawing parallels between Iraq and Viet Nam, they need to read their damn history books and realize that yes, we need to stay until the job is well and truly finished. None of us may like it, and there may be people virulently opposed to the war in Iraq, but the fact remains that we are there, and we have a mission to finish. Period. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 11:23am on 08/18/05 at 10:53:07, Bob P wrote:
I need a nuero appointment I guess. Agreeing with Bob P. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 11:27am I dont understand why Bush wont meet with her and just repeat the bullshit he has been spouting for the last 2 years. Why cant he just repeat the tired ol crap like: "the world is a better place...." or "freedom is on the march....", or "freedom isnt free", or "we freed our long time good friends and brethren the Iraqis"? Why cant he just repeat those same things he says just about every day? On the other hand, i think that taking a meeting with a woman that decided to camp near his house would set a bad precident. Then, if he meets with Mrs. Sheehan, he will have to meet with other people that decide to stalk him. In fact, there should be a rule: If you pitch a tent outside the presidents house and demand a meeting, you will most certainly not get a meeting. I am so sorry for Mrs sheehan's loss as well as the other thousands of families and lives that have been destroyed. The woman gave her son, and her life as she knew it. That is a true patriot. I cant believe the neocon spin machine has decided to not just trample on a dead marine's grave, now they have decided to insult the dead marine's mother. now, THAT is the lowest thing i have ever seen. Just repugnant. BMonee PS, Bill Clinton could have been like Dirk Diggler, doin gang bangs on camera in the middle of the oval office using cigars as sexual tools and walking around in high heels and crotchless panties, and that STILL would not even hold a candle to the new low the neocon spin machine has reached. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Sandy_C on Aug 18th, 2005, 11:27am on 08/18/05 at 09:53:47, thomas wrote:
Did you read the rest of my post, Tom, or did you just stop with the first couple of sentences? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 11:50am on 08/18/05 at 11:27:53, Sandy_C wrote:
Yes I read it. I just don't understand why she is doing this, I don't believe for one minute these "handlers" are using her. The woman is too articulate to be a schill. I just want some one in the mass media to shout from the mountaintops that "CINDY SHEEHAN HAD ALREADY MET WITH PRESIDENT BUSH AND SEEMED VERY HAPPY WITH THE ANSWERS THAT HE GAVE HER AFTER HER SON'S DEATH." "NOW WHY IS SHE DEMANDING TO SEE HIM AGAIN AND PORTRAYING HIM AS A COLD HEARTED S.O.B. WHO REFUSES TO TALK TO HER?" "HE ALREADY TALKED TO HER." "THIS WOMAN IS ATTENTION WHO-RING HERSELF OUT TO THE MEDIA." That is all I want, this woman got what she is asking for already. She is politicizing her own son's death, by being a willing accomplice in a George W. Bush defamation campaign by pro-terrorist, anti-american groups. I have a word for people like her, it rhymes with runt, or hunt. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Melissa on Aug 18th, 2005, 12:01pm IMHO, she has let her grief and anger cloud her better judgement at getting across what she wants to convey. You can't be positively productive if you're filled with sorrow, vengefulness and anger. Instead, it has become a media circus and cliched. Tragic really, in more more ways than just losing a loved one... :( BTW Bmonee, she did not give her sons life to death, her son made the choice to enlist with that knowledge himself. I have 2 brother in laws in the Marine Corps. and one that is finishing his last year of High School and then is off to boot camp himself. Believe me, we are not freely giving him, or the other 2, up to the armed forces. They are doing that themselves. But we support their decision and will honor their decision always, even if it hurts to the bone if they'd (God forbid) die due to a war we feel is absolutely unjust and wrong. There, now my body can spontainously explode due to me expressing my opinion in a semi-political thread. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by don on Aug 18th, 2005, 12:15pm Quote:
In correct. It was Kennedy who put us in Nam. We have troops and bases all over the world but in battle mode. Quote:
Do you really believe that Iraq will ever be stabalized ? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 12:31pm on 08/18/05 at 12:15:53, don wrote:
I stand corrected Kennedy a dem also but a dem with spine unlike his brother. JFK was willing to do what was right and lower taxes and by todays standards would be considered a conseritive. I know my sp sks. Iraq my never be completely stable but when they feel they can control it and ask us to leave I believe we will. They on the other hand my just ask us to stay in a supporting role. As in japan, germany, Bosnia,etc... My take could be wrong but could be right too. Who knows. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Sandy_C on Aug 18th, 2005, 12:39pm on 08/18/05 at 11:50:14, thomas wrote:
I do believe that the special interest groups got to her when she was down, hurt and grieving, and that she latched on to the limb that was held out to her. I agree, she WAS satisfied after her meeting with Bush, that doesn't mean that she was still not in pain. These groups are taking advantage of her. [/quote]I just want some one in the mass media to shout from the mountaintops that "CINDY SHEEHAN HAD ALREADY MET WITH PRESIDENT BUSH AND SEEMED VERY HAPPY WITH THE ANSWERS THAT HE GAVE HER AFTER HER SON'S DEATH." "NOW WHY IS SHE DEMANDING TO SEE HIM AGAIN AND PORTRAYING HIM AS A COLD HEARTED S.O.B. WHO REFUSES TO TALK TO HER?" "HE ALREADY TALKED TO HER." [/quote] It was in my newspapers, and on my local news. [/quote]She is politicizing her own son's death, by being a willing accomplice in a George W. Bush defamation campaign by pro-terrorist, anti-american groups. I have a word for people like her, it rhymes with runt, or hunt. [/quote] That's low, in my opinion. Again, I think she is being taken advantage of at a time in her life when she is at her worst. Yes, I would hope she had a spine and would tell these groups to take a hike, but, for whaterver reason, she can't. But calling her that rhyming name, is uncalled for. Again, just my [smiley=twocents.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 12:45pm I think the woman is doing her son a disservice. He joined, went to Iraq, then reuped. Sounds to me like he died for what he thought was right, not for what his mother wanted. What she is doing is destroying her family. She is being used and probably doesn't even know it. If the president met with her he would be setting a bad precident and no matter what he did or said, it would be used against him in one form or another. If she wants to use her sons name as a propaganda tool fine, but the parents and family of the other people who have fallen doesnt need her useing them as well. Several families already went to Crawford and requested their sons and daughters names off the crosses she put up. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 12:55pm on 08/18/05 at 12:39:10, Sandy_C wrote:
But her calling the president a murderer is ok. You're cool with that? Not trying to pick a fight with you, but Donna Reed, this lady is NOT! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:00pm yup, im cool with that. One is just a derogatory name meant to be insulting, the other is an interpretation of what someone has done. BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:03pm on 08/18/05 at 13:00:43, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Yeah, but in your opinion, I'll bet the guy that pulled the trigger on her son, is a fucking hero. I'm right aren't I? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by nani on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:05pm on 08/18/05 at 13:03:02, thomas wrote:
T...I really don't understand your line of reasoning here. Why does one have to be "pro terrorist" just because they are "antiwar"? Did Ann Coulter tell you that? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:07pm No thomas, you couldnt be farther from the truth you so desperately try to avoid. Can you please tell me why it is that when someone disagrees with what the president has done, you think that they love terrorists? Can you tell me that? BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:12pm Another good point nani. We all know that invading iraq for the reasons given was bullshit. We know that in the grand scheme of things, iraq was not even in the top 10 most dangerous terror threats. So why is it, thomas, that when someone, whether democrat or republican, says they would have preferred to invade real threats first, and then smaller threats later, you call them a terrorist lover? Howcome when i say i would prefer to spend more time and resources on finding osama bin laden than i would like to spend on helping out our good ol buddies in iraq, you say that means i love terrorists? your attempts to avoid the truth at all costs has clouded your vision. If you think that wanting to kill bin laden means i love terrorists, you are a sad american. No offense, but that is my opinion. BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by jcmquix on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:14pm I try to stay out of the Political stuff, cause there are 2 things that should never be discussed, in an open Forum and its: Politic's & Religion..... But the Media has a MAJOR part in the WAR and all they report all the time, everyday.. is how many soldiers died today in IRAQ.... never report the lives that are being saved and improved.... Ever notice that all the F**KS that are doing the Bombing's are from Iran, Syira, Eqypt, etc.... Well we have a Missionary that was at our church a few weeks ago, he travels the world putting glasses on Children, Women & Men... In countries where the Bible is not welcome, After they see the work that he does they invite him with open arms... As he said "Do you know how a 70yr old woman reacts when she sees for the first time in her life, or a little boy can read a book for the first time in his young life".. Anyways as he stated while he was in IRAQ, just 3 weeks before he was in our church, he told and had pictures showing U.S. & British Soldiers Building Power Plants and Water Treatments Plants along with the Iraq People.. Even told us that a large plumbing company here in the U.S. Donated 20,000 Toliets & Wash Basin's to the people there... Did you ever see any of this on the Nightly News ??? No... But I can tel you the body count for the day.. !! I Love this Country, I Really do not think war is good anywhere... But you must stand behind our Soldier's, The President and This Country... (I have a Brother-in -Law there.. and a Nephew on the way to IRAQ before long... They both Know & Believe why there are there) No House Divided will stand Against its Self ...... SUPPORT THE SOLDIERS AT ALL COST'S !!!!! PFDAN's to ALL !!! Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:19pm How come it's the same couple of people who never have anything to contribute to any other topic, jump in and start ranting and getting into a huge, frothing-at-the-mouth pissing match whenever there's a chance to drag President Bush, our military, or our government through the mud? Get all pissy about it, but yelling back and forth on a cluster headaches forum isn't going to change a goddamned thing. All that's left in the wake of these purposely inflammatory threads and comments, is a lot of ill-feeling between people who suffer from the same rare and excrutiatingly painful condition. ::) [smiley=huh.gif] Hrmph.... [smiley=bigtiny.gif] <----using this one in lieu of the fact that there isn't a "jacking-off" smiley. We now return you to your pointless flame-war and/or fucking that dead cat. ::) |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:23pm Bush said after 9/11 he was going to go after the terrorist, and the nations that harbored them. Iraq did, and still would be. If you like I will post more links than you would probably read, but I don't think it would do any good. Now he can't go into every country because of the lack of manpower but Iraq was one that he could and did handle. We defeated their military, captured their leadership, and have battled outside influences for two years now with less loss of life than we lost on 9/11, only a fool would call that a failure or a quagmire............. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:29pm guess I am guilty Frank............................ |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by rextangle on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:30pm [smiley=smokin.gif]... or as Ceasar said way back when: "Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt. Gallos ab Aquitanis Garumna flumen, a Belgis Matrona et Sequana dividit. Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae, propterea quod a cultu atque humanitate provinciae longissime absunt, minimeque ad eos mercatores saepe commeant atque ea quae ad effeminandos animos pertinent important, proximique sunt Germanis, qui trans Rhenum incolunt, quibuscum continenter bellum gerunt. Qua de causa Helvetii quoque reliquos Gallos virtute praecedunt, quod fere cotidianis proeliis cum Germanis contendunt, cum aut suis finibus eos prohibent aut ipsi in eorum finibus bellum gerunt. Eorum una, pars, quam Gallos obtinere dictum est, initium capit a flumine Rhodano, continetur Garumna flumine, Oceano, finibus Belgarum, attingit etiam ab Sequanis et Helvetiis flumen Rhenum, vergit ad septentriones. Belgae ab extremis Galliae finibus oriuntur, pertinent ad inferiorem partem fluminis Rheni, spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem. Aquitania a Garumna flumine ad Pyrenaeos montes et eam partem Oceani quae est ad Hispaniam pertinet; spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones." Am I the only one who can read latin? [smiley=sleep.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:32pm Matt, You make it sound like Iraq is the only place that had terrorist training camps. Wrong Almost every country in the whole world has them. The USA has more than 50 that we know about. Mexico has more than iraq, so does canada, and britain, and syria, and saudi arabia, and jordan, and egypt, and france, and sri lanka, and pakistan, Why do you think it is more important to invade number 17 on the list of most dangerous terror threats than numbers 1 - 10 first? Oh, and by the way, will you please stop cheering that the USA defeated the Iraqi military, they didnt have one. They couldnt even stand on their own 2 feet back when they did have one. So just cause our tanks ran over their sod huts while they were shooting ak-47s at us, doesnt mean they have a military. I have guns in my house, and if my town was ever invaded, you can bet i would use them to attack the invading forces. But does that mean i am part of the military? fuck no BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:40pm Nope, I said we didn't have the manpower to go after every one. We had valid reasons to go into Iraq, but that is lost on you. I will NOT stop cheering for the USA, to bad you never started. Have a nice day............ |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by LeLimey on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:42pm on 08/18/05 at 13:32:51, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
No need to sound proud of it. Its no disgrace to fight for your country |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:47pm Matt, i am not trying to ruffle your feathers, and i know that politics can be a heated issue. But can you please tell me your point of view without using cliches and insults? I asked you several questions about your opinion, and all you respond to me with are insults and rhetoric. I just want to hear about your opinion in an intelligent, descriptive way. Really, i am not trying to start a fight here, or to make waves. If you dont want to explain your opinion, that's cool too, just say so. BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:48pm on 08/18/05 at 13:30:33, rextangle wrote:
I can, but I am very very slow at it. LOL |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by jcmquix on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:52pm on 08/18/05 at 13:32:51, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
#1 If you are NOT Cheering for the U.S. Soldiers... who are you Cheering for..??? Sorry.. but I have to ask... #2 The IRAQ Army did a pretty good job on Kuwait, for not having a Military.... What about the Kurds... Their own citizens... ???? 250,000 in one day.. Saddam was real proud of that ONE, until he got caught...Right where good ole Busch said he'd be... Hiding in some hole. If you do not Support the Leadership, You'll ought to get out and make changes, or as my Wife tells me: Sit Down STFU Hold On I'm Driving.... :) SUPPORT the TROOPS !!!! PFDAN to ALL !!!! Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BobG on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:53pm Quote:
No. All the Latinos can read it. Al Gore taught them. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:53pm on 08/18/05 at 13:47:53, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Can I help matt? The war in Iraq was not based on lies but the media and certian groups have dwelled on only key phrases and act like that is all the prez said. If anyone remembers Iraq had broken over 15 un resolutions and did not declare if and what weapons had been destroyed. They also continullay fired on us planes and troops, and great britian planes and troops. We also where only Still at war with them with a sease fire agreement in place since the gulf war. Iraq was given more that enough time and allowance to comply. They where a credible threat and as the prez said the public may not understand everything as to why we may go after credible threats but we will. Also as I did state before 17+ terrorist training camps in Iraq where shut down due to our attack into the country, most of which directly affiliated with alquida and other extremest groups clainimg to be assotiated with alquida. Those where the guidelines the prez set forth and used. people think there where no WMD's found WRONG! There where alot found and also hidden military weapons and aircraft found. The WMD's may not have been as numerious as thought but the combined power of what was found could have killed thousands, so where exactly is the lies? Also Iraq's government knowingly and openly harbored terrorist, and paid hamas and other orginizations to kill Infidels and openly paid suicide bombers families once they blew up. As in other posts I can give many more examples but would be here a long freakn time doing so. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:00pm charlie, you misunderstood what i said. I said cheering for the purpose of defeating an opposing military. In 2003, when the USA invaded Iraq, Iraq had almost nothing for military. Very few men, almost no equipment. Its like the NBA champions beating the special olympics basketball team and then cheering proudly when they win. It wasnt a competition. and for your second point: no shit. 12 years ago, iraq had a military. in 2003, only a shell of a piece of shit. So, even though in 1992 when iraq had a military, the USA beat the fuck out of them in 100 hours. In 2003, we didnt even start the clock cause we knew that they didnt have anything that could harm us. Shooting a gun at a tank isnt a threat. and ghost, yes, i read that post from earlier. I have one question: you have groups like hush bimbo and faux news that will say ANYTHING to support the president. If they really found lots of WMDs and operable fighter jets like you say, howcome even the most propagandized sources arent saying it? Howcome just 6 months ago bush said we have not found any and we are no longer looking for them? BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:06pm I'll tell you all something. I am sick and tired of people who sit and take freedom for granted. I think as a nation we have shown that we are irresponsible in how we use our freedom, the blood shed by veterans of the past is becoming worth less and less every day. I joined the army in 1991 with hopes of helping liberate the people of Kuwait and preserving freedom across the globe. I didn't need some one to explain to me the value of freedom. I know it is bought and paid for with blood. Freedom is the most valuable asset we have and we allow our government to take it away on a daily basis. While we sit and tear each other down across the aisle. This is no the same country that I chose to defend with my life years ago. At times I am ashamed to even say I am an American. 14 years ago, you could not have convinced me that I would EVER say that. But I have seen this country grow into a "what about me" society. It used to be all for one and one for all, united we stand divided we fall. Now, we would rather slander each other, accuse and point fingers and not think of consequences. No matter what harm we cause by our words or actions, some one else is always to blame. The word "sacrifice" should be removed from our vocabulary, no one even has a clue what it means any more. There used to be a time when we were the greatest nation in the world, and we behaved that way. People looked to us as leaders and protectors. Well that has not been the case for a little over a decade now. That's what happens when you elect two bafoons in concession to lead the free world. You loose the respect you've worked for over 200 years to recieve. The republicans and democrats have destroyed my beloved country. And no one seems to care. It's like watching a rabid animal eat it's own guts out. I wonder what would have happened if we had not gone to war and taken Hitler out. What race would have been next on the block after the Jews? Saddam Huessain is an evil person, he did financially support terrorist groups, he did have illegal weapons, the U.N. were willing acomplices in the "Oil for food" program, what a sham that was. But we look the other way. I may not like G.W. a whole lot, but the guy does have balls enough to stand up and tell some one when they are wrong. The U.N. should have taken Saddam out years ago. The torturing, murdering, hell even attempted genocide. But everybody wants to look the other way. "Nope, doesn't concern me, not one bit." That's the attitude we as a nation have shown. From what I've seen, there may be a handful of a percentage of the population of this Great Nation that actually deserved my service. The further we slide down this slope of hate and scorn, the more worthless my duty becomes in my own eyes. It's pretty sad when I see what caliber of people I risked my life for. A bunch of petty children who don't understand what it means to sacrifice some of yourself for the greater good of humanity. (Taking a year vacation on the Green Peace doesn't fuckin' count either.) We are all willing to pay lip service and tell others how they should live their lives in order to help the less fortunate, but when it comes time to lace up the boots and pay the piper in his preferred currency ; blood, sweat and tears, all of a sudden it's much easier to have some one else haul the freight. One side verses the other, and neither one is even close to being right or pure. Some day history will tell the story of the failed experiment of democracy that was America. I wonder what language the first draft will be in? Please don't take these ramblings personally, or maybe you can if the shoe fits. These are just the observations I've made in the last 20 or so years of my wonderful life. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:09pm Well spoken, Thomas. You echo my sentiments to a T. Right down to the last letter of your last sentence. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:19pm on 08/18/05 at 14:00:59, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
First of all Some of them have mentioned it as it happened but felt it was useless to respout everyday like the media does. 6 month ago he said we hadnt found any additional weapons, so we have stopped searching for them. But we have not stopped looking just stopped using extra troops for just that purpose. Those troops have filled vacancies of troops departing and some have returned home. Even some of the roadside bombs had used unaccounted for wmds that failed to mix which rendered them harmless luckly. Just one of those shells used as an eed if mixed could have killed up to 5000 people and over 10 recovered. I know its hard to believe that the media would keep that from us but it is the FACT. I have friends attached to S.E.A.L. teams still over there that have kept in contact with me. I have like others heard alot of good the media refuses to cover. Also have heard about things dealing with found weapons and training camps the media refuses to cover. Any one who belives we went to war over WMD's as the primary reason or Oil that is severe propaganda at its best. Again thank you and have a nice day. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:24pm Wow thomas I could not have said it better thanks man |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by jcmquix on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:24pm Thomas.. I am proud of the job You done... I think you basically stated my point.... I am going to sit down Shut the F**K up and Hold on.... [smiley=smokin.gif] PFDAN's to ALL !!! Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by jcmquix on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:31pm on 08/18/05 at 14:00:59, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
BMoneeTheMoneeMan.. I am not trying to Attack you... but they, the IRAQ military got everything they deserved.. they would gladly have done the same to our Troops.... So what we had the upper hand... I still say "JOB WELL DONE TROOPS"..... [smiley=thumb.gif] [smiley=me&mb.gif] PFDAN's to ALL !!! Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by rextangle on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:35pm Clarorum virorum facta moresque posteris tradere, antiquitus usitatum, ne nostris quidem temporibus quamquam incuriosa suorum aetas omisit, quotiens magna aliqua ac nobilis virtus vicit ac supergressa est vitium parvis magnisque civitatibus commune, ignorantiam recti et invidiam. Sed apud priores ut agere digna memoratu pronum magisque in aperto erat, ita celeberrimus quisque ingenio ad prodendam virtutis memoriam sine gratia aut ambitione bonae tantum conscientiae pretio ducebantur. Ac plerique suam ipsi vitam narrare fiduciam potius morum quam adrogantiam arbitrati sunt, nec id Rutilio et Scauro citra fidem aut obtrectationi fuit: adeo virtutes isdem temporibus optime aestimantur, quibus facillime gignuntur. At nunc narraturo mihi vitam defuncti hominis venia opus fuit, quam non petissem incusaturus: tam saeva et infesta virtutibus tempora. [smiley=headbanger.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:37pm Rex thats hurtn my head [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Melissa on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:38pm Rex, can I get that in Sanskrit as well? ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by rextangle on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:43pm Sanskrit.... me no comprendo, but I can do swahili. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by vig on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:00pm well, I don't like this war, but I support our troops to the nth degree. what they are defending is our freedom. Ms. Sheehan can bark all she want, that's her right.... let her shout at the top of her lungs! (tune her out if you don't want to listen) remember, in other countries, she would have been thrown in the dungeon or outright killed, that's what makes us great; that we can have the debate in public, right or wrong, and all sides are heard. Thomas, you're a hero. ;;D You too Frank and all the other soldiers. we owe you a debt of gratitude that can never be fully repaid. thanks to all of you |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:06pm Oh yes one more thing that sickens me. We've got a very small percentage of soldiers in the war, that have come home on leave and talked to the media, crying about "I didn't sign up for this. I only wanted money for college." What a bunch of human debris. When you sign up you take an oath. Oathes and our word are worth less nowadays too, from what I can see. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:07pm on 08/18/05 at 13:32:51, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
Excuse my mixing my answers with your post. I do not know how to quote single sentences and my day has been a long one. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:09pm on 08/18/05 at 15:06:48, thomas wrote:
Right again, Thomas. "Honor" has become an archaic term and anyone who gives his/her oath and stands by it, is seen as an anachronistic dinosaur. -Frankosaurus Rex P.S. Thank you, Vig. It was truly a privilege and an honor to serve the principles that America was founded upon. Too bad I can't say the same for the whining self-absorbed pvssies that most of our society has become. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:17pm on 08/18/05 at 15:00:28, vig wrote:
Funny thing is, Cindy gets more coverage on Fox than anywhere else. While most columnists ignore her, the rabid freepers and Michele Malkin go on endlessly about it. Tabloid mentality at its finest - show us OJ for endless hours, and then have shows devoted to the question of whether OJ gets too much coverage. Honestly, she is just one voice, and she is being amplified most by the conservatives who are attacking her. Probably has nothing to do with Bush's abysmal poll numbers or the directive from Rove to attack Cindy with all the vigor that was once directed at traitors like John McCain and Max Cleland when they were being inconvienent. Got to keep the relatives in line, or there will be real trouble. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:23pm John McCain is a traitor? Can you elaborate please? I haven't heard that before. The only thing I've seen, is that he's sometimes not playing with a full deck... I'm sure he lost some of his marbles at the Hanoi Hilton, though, so I'm a little more willing to cut him some slack... [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:31pm John McCaine is a war hero who served his country valiantly and with honor. However he is a politician and by definition a traitor. lol. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:33pm on 08/18/05 at 15:23:34, Frank_W wrote:
Rove organized a smear campaign against McCain when McCain was running against the Bush machine in the South Carolina primary. Using 'push-polling' and a whisper campaign, rumors were spread not only that McCain was misssing a few marbles, but that he had been programmed as a 'Manchurian Candidate' during his years of captivity by the communists in Vietnam - he was a one man sleeper cell trying to take over the US government. Other rumors inserted into SC by the same team included one that McCain's wife was a drug addict. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:37pm lol..............get your waders the shit is getting deep............. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by ghost62 on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:37pm [smiley=spit.gif] [smiley=oops.gif] [smiley=ohjez.gif] [smiley=crackup.gif] [smiley=yikes.gif] [smiley=gossip.gif] [smiley=deal2.gif] [smiley=argue.gif] [smiley=gocrazy.gif] [smiley=headbanger.gif] [smiley=JAW_DROP.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:38pm on 08/18/05 at 15:33:38, floridian wrote:
I wont deny any of that. Because we are talking about politicians and their henchmen. All nasty, nasty people. And proven enemies of the constitution. NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:43pm In that case, I would consider Rove to be the traitor. I don't trust any politician, although it's too bad Colin Powell didn't run for office, because I would have voted for him in a heartbeat. *sigh* |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:46pm And here's what Bush and Rove did to Max Cleland: Quote:
Patriotism for Bush is not about truth or honor - it is about wining and exerting power. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:48pm on 08/18/05 at 15:46:22, floridian wrote:
Bill and Hillary's mad lust for power is no different. Three peas in the same pod. Win and retain power, no matter the cost. (The cost usually translates into some one's life, either literally or publicly.) |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 4:16pm Time out! [smiley=referee.gif] Its time for visual relief ;;D http://www.m90.org/show_image.php?image_id=6643&medium Ok, GAME ON! [smiley=referee.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 4:18pm on 08/18/05 at 15:48:39, thomas wrote:
True that Bill and Hillary were and are policiticians. But I thought that the issue that started this thread is Cindy Sheehan, the Bush presidency and the war. Edited - THANK YOU JOHNNY!! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 4:45pm It seems Cindy is leaving, seems that her actions gave her Mom a heart attack.....Bummer!! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 4:48pm on 08/18/05 at 16:18:05, floridian wrote:
No, just Cindy Sheehan, and the fact that she is changing boats midstream. And is the latest media darling. Frankly I am more interested in finding out what happened to Natalee Holloway. If we put as much effort into solving problems as we do fighting amongst ourselves, we could be a great nation again. Until then, the lunatics will continue to run the assylum. "That's it lads and lasses step right up for you nightly thorazine. Yes, yes what good pets you all make." "Join us again at 10:00 when we go over the same crap we did at 6:00." Journalism is dead. Opinion laden news is all that is available anymore. No one cares about the facts unless they are seasoned to a certain demographic's tastes. That is more what the thread was about, it acutally has little to do with G.W. Bush or the War on Terror. Which is slightly more successful at this point than the War on Drugs, or the War on Poverty. But the ones that the Government is really winning is the War on The Bill of Rights, and The War on the American Intelligence (This one in particular is almost over - the white flags are going up). The War on common decency. The War on Morality. The War on Free Speech (funny how the ones who claim to be for it are the ones most adamatly taking it away) Irony is the only true form of humor. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Charlie on Aug 18th, 2005, 6:57pm A couple of things: A real problem is that if you don't like what you're hearing, you flip to your favorite blogger. It's easy. Information on the other side filtered by your side, isn't. It's pretty much what we get here too with all the URLS. When there were fewer news sources, we were forced to see more than one side of an issue...the liberal biased national news? Right. That's something incessantly sustained by the Republican noise machines on cable TV and the Rush Limbaughs of talk radio. The so-called bias is that the old national reporters had a conscience and reported the human side of the news. Today, no fair listening to something like that. If it doesn't adhere to what the far right has done to my old party and Rupert Murdock--it's liberal bias. These are the fair and balanced truth-tellers that were quoted here and called John McCain and Max Cleland traitors. You forgot to include that they said that McCain had more than one illigitimate child by Vitenamese paramours, too. Wow, are we lucky to have their reasoned thoughts on every issue. What's more patriotic? An administration that spends all its time looking for ways to stifle debate on this war, or a woman who lost her son expressing her disagreement and grief at a serious issue rather than being glued to the TV watching Aruba kidnappings or assinine biological debates by bible pounding scare mongers? That is what this country is about: Free speech and the right to get under the skin of those in power, not to call anyone not tickled pink about hitting the wrong target, unpatriotic or a traitor. That is unpatriotic in the extreme. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:06pm on 08/18/05 at 18:57:08, Charlie wrote:
Yeah, I also forgot to mention the photos that were spread of McCain with his illegitimate daughter with a black woman; the girl turned out to be his adopted daughter and biological paternity was clearly someone else. That smear was particularly potent in rural Carolina (when in fact that story was true about the Republican Strom Thurmond, but kept quiet until after his death.) The "family values" party strikes again!! And they wonder why they have problems getting the minority vote. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:08pm on 08/18/05 at 18:57:08, Charlie wrote:
Charlie......I see nobody told you that she already had her meeting with Bush and they hugged. What next?....he meets with every parent that lost a kid five times each? Get real, dude! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:23pm Life is good and right in Clusterland....................... |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:52pm on 08/18/05 at 16:16:32, Jonny wrote:
OH MY GOD JONNY, that is one of the nicest asses i have seen in a long time. BMonee PS, the woman in the pic is nice too ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:36pm where did you get that picture of me.....next time ask before you post them...... sheesh..... and now....my Mother of the Soldier opinion whether you like it or not ..... She is disrespecting the memory of her son... She is ruining her marriage... Her son VOLUNTEERED TO FIGHT FOR FREEDOM.... and went back AFTER BEING WOUNDED TO FIGHT AGAIN FOR FREEDOM.... END OF STORY.... He is a Hero. Mom is distraught. I understand that. It was his choice, and his job. Just like a fire fighter or police officer. He worked for America, and America sent him to Iraq to help free the people over there. God bless her sore heart. God rest her son's brave soul. Amen......ree |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Lizzie2 on Aug 18th, 2005, 8:41pm Beautifully written, Ree. :) |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Charlie on Aug 18th, 2005, 9:18pm on 08/18/05 at 19:08:36, Jonny wrote:
Oops. Didn't know that...and here I was proud of myself for not looking at the news since about noon. Thanks Jonny. Charlie http://www.subscribe.smileygenerator.us/all/albums/0riginals/doh.gif?SSImageQuality=Full |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by jcmquix on Aug 18th, 2005, 10:36pm This is another Big Monkey behind the Rumors in the Media about Gorge W Jr & Sr.... http://www.fahrenhype911.com/ I have this DVD and they talk to the Soldiers & their Families who were in the Michel Moore (9/11 viedo) and they all say everything that Moore used is all taken out of context....Hell 99% of them never even met Moore.. S**T like this is what gives us all a Bad Name.... [smiley=ohjez.gif] No MORE Michel Moore..... [smiley=finger.gif] Atleast Busch Sr & Jr had the Balls to stand up and kick'em in the teeth... [smiley=headbanger.gif] SUPPORT THE TROOPS !!!! PFDAN to ALL !!! Charlie [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by clarence on Aug 18th, 2005, 11:05pm on 08/18/05 at 10:53:07, Bob P wrote:
This is exactly it. Support or oppose the war, it doesn't matter. Pull out now and it would be an incredibly irresponsible act by the US. Casey |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 19th, 2005, 12:27am on 08/18/05 at 23:05:27, clarence wrote:
I agree that it doesn't matter, but from a very different perspective. My fear is that Washington has created a chain of events they are unable to control. But, hey, I may be wrong. Lets march more troops up the mountain to try to stop that avalanche. Lots of talk recently about a 'phased pulldown' of troops starting in early 2006; coincidentally, the US ability to deploy troops at the current level will be depleted in mid to late 2006 unless there is an amazing turn around in recruitment - hundreds of percent higher than the goals, when the existing goals wont be met. Just no way to keep cycling the reserves back there. Brings to my mind a lesson on hubris and how "pride goes before a fall" ... hmm, where did I hear that?? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by vig on Aug 19th, 2005, 8:48am I don't know what y'all are so worried about... Dick CHeney said it was in the last throes... It's almost over! woohoo! ;) and I believe Rafael Palmeiro too! I've started to even hear some Republicans say: "that the White House is disconnected from reality" |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by JDH on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:10am on 08/19/05 at 08:48:46, vig wrote:
and Cheney's sidekick was saying "Mission Accomplished!" way back in May of '03. Huh? ::) Jim |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:16am Thats funny vig. I enjoy your political dryness. I dont know about any of you, but as much as i love the troops, I dont want them to come back home. I want them to leave Iraq when its appropriate, but then i want them to go into saudi arabia and start mowing those bastards down, and dont forget about syria too. This country has an enemy, and americans have died. We still need to avenge the deaths of all those people. course, that's just my opinion. BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Bob P on Aug 19th, 2005, 10:18am Quote:
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Title: wage peace Post by rumplestiltskin on Aug 19th, 2005, 11:11am just so some clusterhead somewhere doesn't get the impression that every clusterhead is a hate/war monger. Before the children of Iraq stopped dying at Saddam's hand and began dying at ours....I opposed the war and still do. I cannot support anyone...ANYONE...i don't care if they come from good faith-filled freedom loving famililies, that kills innocents. I'm truely sorry for the mental anguish they will have to live with when they return home. I am a 54 year old clusterhead. I believe love is all we need. Do not expect me to engage in a debate or pissin match with you. I believe that freedom is free. wage peace den |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by nani on Aug 19th, 2005, 11:16am Love really is all we need. Too bad we all don't get that. Nice post, den. Thanks others: have a look at my signature. peace, nani |
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Title: Re: wage peace Post by ghost62 on Aug 19th, 2005, 11:52am on 08/19/05 at 11:11:25, rumplestiltskin wrote:
Sorry den we will disagree on that and I will disagree with anyone who says that "I believe that freedom is free" It has taken hundreds of thousands of American lives to get the freedom you all enjoy Freedom has not nor ever will be free! To live in this country and belive you have freedom just because you want it you must be delusional. The right and freedoms we have where fought for and earned by military and civilians as militia's over the years and preserved by the same. I feel so sorry for those that do not understand the sacrifces others have made for them to be self indulgent and wrong, but it is ok because they have the right to be that way thanks to the sacrifices made by others. I too have willingly gone to sacrifice myself for you rights to be whatever you want to be, luckly I came home. I have alot of friends not so lucky. If able I would gladly do it again. I am not trying to assault or insult anyone but to trivialize the men and women in uniform and there sacrifices is just wrong and will be confronted by either myself or others because we do understand and care. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Frank_W on Aug 19th, 2005, 12:02pm Freedom is NOT free. It has been fought for, paid for, and died for in blood. I've personally buried friends who made the ultimate sacrifice, and I've held the hands of their widows as they grieved. Den, you're a good guy, but you're wrong this time, my friend. A visit to Arlington cemetery might be a good place to reflect on the price of freedom. If Europe appeals to you more, you may want to visit this place: http://www.cimoli.com/pictures/cem/ Okay. I'm done with this thread.... *long sigh* -Frank |
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Title: Re: wage peace Post by Pinkfloyd on Aug 19th, 2005, 12:07pm on 08/19/05 at 11:11:25, rumplestiltskin wrote:
[smiley=laugh.gif] LOL...I wouldn't want to try and defend that position in a debate either, if I were you. Thats about the most disconnected from reality statement made in this entire thread. John Lennon thought the same thing. You see where that got him didn't you? Just because your freedom obviously didn't cost you anything, it certainly wasn't free for those that have paid the cost...for you. Bobw |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 19th, 2005, 12:19pm on 08/19/05 at 10:18:44, Bob P wrote:
Yeah, thats the Ann Coulter version of what happened - Cleland was a klutz who blew himself up on some cozy base. Coulter's version doesn't square with most other accounts. Quote:
Maybe you think we should not give out purple hearts to pilots that are shot down - the enemy shoots at their aircraft thousands of times with no effect. When they finally hit one and down it, it is really more of an accident or matter of really bad luck, no? And the those killed by 'friendly fire' are really no different than those killed by a vehicle accident on a US base?? Its not like they stood face to face with the enemy and took a bullet. |
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Title: Re: wage peace Post by Ree on Aug 19th, 2005, 3:37pm on 08/19/05 at 11:11:25, rumplestiltskin wrote:
Where the Hell do you live Den. Freedom comes with a price. That price is that people like MY family sacrifice and their brave kids volunteer to protect you. I accept your opinion because I am an American and I know you and I have had this argument before. You're saying you would just walk over someone that was being tortured. I hate war too... but I also hate people like Sadam, Hitler and Osama. Are you saying that we should just turn away. What would it take for you to be mad enough or angry enough. Maybe to have your family murdered like my daughters class mates who lived and knew Iraq when Sadam was in office. They are happy that our kids are brave enough to care about their country though they live here running for their lives years gone by. Yes they came here to America to be free because they believe in the idea of freedom. Something they never had in Iraq. ree |
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Title: Re: wage peace Post by Jonny on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:09pm on 08/19/05 at 11:11:25, rumplestiltskin wrote:
Sounds like fantasy land there Den. Do you "Wage peace" on a dude that just killed your family and has his back to you and you have a gun in your hand? War sucks from all angles, but Americans lose more lives for going out of their way to make sure civilians are not in the fight. Prove that wrong! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by don on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:16pm Quote:
In a perfect world you'de be right. Ghandi proved it. The world is not full of Ghandis and the world is not perfect. Quote:
Unfortnately its not. (You peace loving hippy freak) |
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Title: Re: wage peace Post by Sandy_C on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:24pm on 08/19/05 at 11:11:25, rumplestiltskin wrote:
Would that we all could wage peace. The world would be a wonderful place to live in. But, even if everyone in our country waged peace, there are others that will wage war against us. To live in peace, we either defend our rights to peace, or we perish. Freedom is not free. It's the most expensive ideal that this entire world has ever known . Sandy |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:25pm Oh man this is some funny shit, time to put that pipe down.....you'r killin me........... |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by clarence on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:28pm Flo, I appreciate your response above. An exit strategy would be nice, even if a timeline can't be attached to it. I see your point. I have a question about the love thing for everybody else. How is it that love is all we need? Love is a verb that needs an object. You can't just love, that is what preteen girls do, they just love. Love must have an object, ie, you must love or have love for something. To say that all we need is love is a form of romanticism, in my opinion unteneable. Casey |
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Title: Re: wage peace Post by floridian on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:28pm on 08/19/05 at 16:09:13, Jonny wrote:
I'll prove it right And wrong. There are cases where you give civilians the benefit of the doubt and it comes back to bite you. On the other hand, if the civilians respect you, there is more cooperation and less fuel for an insurgency. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by nani on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:35pm on 08/19/05 at 16:28:19, clarence wrote:
Love is "Divine". It needs no "object, it's a state of mind. Making "love" to my husband, reading a bedtime story to my kids, calling a friend when they're down, stepping over the grasshopper I could crush, giving a cup of soup to a homeless person, or even forgiving those who've hurt me... it's ALL love. It's the way I express my "spirit", Casey... Call me an idealist, but if we each started focusing on our "oneness" more and our differences less... the world would be a much better place to live. Oh, and I have no pipe... ;) Can someone send me one? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:36pm on 08/19/05 at 16:28:19, clarence wrote:
What about "love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those you hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you, and persecute you." Is that untenable romanticism, or an important and usually ignored tennet of Christ's teachings?? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:44pm on 08/19/05 at 16:36:49, floridian wrote:
Thats a sure way of getting killed ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by E-Double on Aug 19th, 2005, 4:52pm on 08/19/05 at 16:28:19, clarence wrote:
Not always......If love is all you need than it is a noun ;) |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by don on Aug 19th, 2005, 5:07pm Quote:
I feel so warm and.....and..............and fuzzy......and...warm and fuzzy....and. Freakin RASH! Pass the benedryl. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by nani on Aug 19th, 2005, 5:33pm on 08/19/05 at 17:07:58, don wrote:
don, when I said love is all you need, i didn't mean the kind you have to pay for. Now get down to the free clinic and get your rash taken care of. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by clarence on Aug 19th, 2005, 5:39pm on 08/19/05 at 16:36:49, floridian wrote:
Actually, in each of the instances that you mention, there is an object for the love to be directed towards...enemies, those who curse, those who hate you, etc... So, I would heartilly agree that we need to love in these situations, especially as I try to follow Christ's teachings. Also, in each of the instances nani lists, there is an object. What I have a problem with is this elevation of love to some sort of etheral feeling that is disconnected from time and space, especially as in the phrase, "all we need is love." No, all we need is not love, what we need is to [actively - noted the verbal usage] love...take your pick. In terms of Christ's teachings, love is always grounded in two principles: Love of God and Love of Neighbor. In these two actions is summarised "all the law and the prophets." I don't know, maybe it is a fine line between what we are talking about in this context, I just dislike the vision of love as a just a feeling, or as something disconnected from actual objects or situations. Casey |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Charlie on Aug 19th, 2005, 6:36pm Dying in Baghdad to get those funny A-Rabs out of the way so they can erect George Bush's statue in Halliburton Square isn't really the way to preserve our freedom. Attacking the wrong country, looking all over the place for weapons that are found in Pakistan and Iran, doesn't do it either. Today, oil production in Iraq is only a fraction of it was under that slime, Saddam. As of this morning, 59 American kids have died in Iraq this month paying for this illusive freedom that we have been losing daily thanks to the war waged on us by George Bush right in our own back yard. Too bad we can't be so vigilant preserving the Bill Of Rights. Our purer than driven snow politicians are the real danger. Roosevelt said that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. We definitely need to fear the fear mongers who hope we are glued to reality TV rather than paying attention to their assualt on the very people they pledged to serve. You'd think we'd be tired of being "served" by this boring lot. We've done such great things and it's a shame that we are trying so hard to fuck it up. Life is much more interesting when we aren't so damned obnoxious. Oh... and today, oil production in Iraq is only a fraction of it was under that slime, Saddam. Not that that has anything to do with anything of course.... Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 19th, 2005, 7:30pm on 08/19/05 at 18:36:51, Charlie wrote:
Charlie, Thats a joke right? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Charlie on Aug 19th, 2005, 7:45pm on 08/19/05 at 19:30:44, Jonny wrote:
I embellished it a bit. Part of it is from Bill Maher. Charlie http://www.kolobok.wrg.ru/images/smiles/icon_idea.gif?SSImageQuality=Full |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 19th, 2005, 8:04pm on 08/19/05 at 19:45:18, Charlie wrote:
You mean Bill that called the 9-11 terrorist heros? He should have his jugular cut with a box cutter ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Charlie on Aug 19th, 2005, 8:27pm on 08/19/05 at 20:04:13, Jonny wrote:
Yeah but thanks to the terrorists, you have to buy your box cutters after you get off the plane. Getting expensive. 8) Charlie http://subscribe.smileygenerator.us/all/albums/aiwan1//butcher.gif?SSImageQuality=Full |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 19th, 2005, 8:39pm on 08/19/05 at 20:27:40, Charlie wrote:
Nice come back, Charlie ::) That anti American scumbag deserves what our folks went through! To say that our troops are cowards means he should bleed to death very slowly....I wonder why this piece of shit dont have a tv show anymore....LMAO...I hope he dies a very painful death! Fucking scumbag!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by floridian on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:47pm Quote:
Foolish, evil, but not cowardly. I don't remember the word 'hero' appearing in his controversial monologue, nor did he say the troops were cowards. I thought that all you conservatives agreed that Clinton was a coward and the best he could do was blow up a $500 tent with a $500,000 missile fired on orders from the comfort of the Oval Office where Monica was hiding under the desk. Haven't we heard derrisive comments about Clinton bombing the aspirin factory in this thread or the other political one? What about Barbara Bush's comment: "Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?" " A lot of people got steamed about that - until they heard the context. She was asked if she was watching more TV news in the run up to the war. "I watch none. He (former President Bush) sits and listens and I read books, because I know perfectly well that, don't take offense, that 90 percent of what I hear on television is supposition, when we're talking about the news. And he's not, not as understanding of my pettiness about that. But why should we hear about body bags, and deaths, and how many, what day it's gonna happen, and how many this or what do you suppose? Or, I mean, it's, it's not relevant. So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that? And watch him suffer." She was right - the speculation about which offensive playbook would be used, or how many body bags were being sent to the war theatre were pretty much idle chat based on rumors and guesses or possibilities. Maybe its a thought crime to say anything that is not completely negative about our opponents. Rather than try to really understand the enemy and respond to the reality, we can fight the enemy as we imagine them. The Krauts and Japs were cowards, the North Koreans and Viet Cong were all cowards, and all the Al Qaeda are cowards. They are all completely 100% stupid. They don't love their countries and families, and they don't appreciate NASCAR. Or maybe they are all NASCAR fans, but are hateful because they don't have it over there. Feel better now? I personally find anger to be motivating, but it clouds rational thought. And when so many lives are on the line, it makes more sense to think with a clear mind. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 19th, 2005, 10:01pm Hey Jonny, Your blinded judgement is getting in the way of facts. The spin machine you listen to may have said Bill called them heros, but the truth is that he said they were "not cowards" and "not weak" (as in strong willed). Meaning if you are mentally able to hijack an airplane and crash it into a building in the name of "Allah" or some shit, you are a strong person. yes, you are a piece of shit, but you are not a coward, and you are not weak. I agree with that line of thinking. BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by CHTom on Aug 19th, 2005, 10:07pm I wonder how many people who have posted messages about killing people, cutting their throats, etc., have ever done any killing themselves? No matter how bad the person is that you kill, you pay an emotional price that can last the rest of your life and, indeed, ruin your life. Look at all of the combat vets from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, the two Gulf Wars-so many suffer from post traumatic stress disorder even if they killed to save their own life or the life of their comrades. Taking a human life is not an easy thing to live with and I suspect that, despite all of the testosterone induced statements, when the time comes to pull the trigger or stick in the knife, most people would not be able to do it. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 20th, 2005, 12:02am I found this tonight..... Link To Article Print Article Email Article Friday, August 19: The Sheehan saga, Whose woes?, Here we go again ... By Times-Herald readers The Sheehan saga I have been hearing about Cindy Sheehan off and on for about four days now here, at Camp Taji, Iraq. This is my second tour in this country. I feel very strongly about Mrs. Sheehan and what she is doing, and I felt the need to say a few things. Her son was a grown man, he knew what he was getting into the day he first went to visit the recruiter. His mother dishonors his and all other sacrifices young men and women in the armed forces have ever made for our country by throwing this hissy fit and allowing herself to be co-opted and made into some kind of leftist pseudo-icon. I asked around my unit this afternoon how people felt about Mrs. Sheehan's actions. Not surprisingly, since we are a combat unit, not many of the soldiers I asked knew exactly what I was talking about. Once I showed newspaper articles, and explained this situation occurring on the home front though, I was met with a resounding negative reaction. Not one of the 12 soldiers I inquired about this to felt she was doing any good or even "right" for that matter. Her son has passed, and though no mother wishes for her child to pass and make her a "Gold Star" mother, they all need to realize one thing. They are no longer children - they are grown men and women making their own decisions and not needing to be molly-coddled anymore. Let Mrs. Sheehan's son be honored by his brothers and sisters in arms, and properly grieved by his family. Don't let his memory be forever marred by a travesty such as the one his own mother is now committing. Spc. Cudney, Anthony M. U.S. Army, Camp Taji, Iraq, 13 Armor Battallion, 1AD, 3BCT |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Pinkfloyd on Aug 20th, 2005, 12:37am on 08/19/05 at 21:47:45, floridian wrote:
Who do we have lobbing missiles Flo, the boy scouts? He probably meant "we" in the collective sense as a country, but that explanation doesn't fly for those troops that are actually lobbing the missiles. He's all show business and he scripts his work for the most reaction. So he should be prepared to reap what he knowingly sows. If you want to defend a guy willing to earn rating points (dollars) on the backs of US soldiers putting their lives on the line, fine. All the news orgs and "entertainers" are guilty of the same thing. I sometimes wonder who makes more off the war and our soldiers lives, Hollywood or Wall Street. JMHO Bobw |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by nani on Aug 20th, 2005, 2:10am on 08/20/05 at 00:37:31, Pinkfloyd wrote:
I think in this war, it's Dick Cheney's buddies at Halliburton. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by CHTom on Aug 20th, 2005, 2:14am Will those of you who belive in it please let the rest of us know who or what group of people are in control of the so-called worldwide "liberal" media cabal? I get the feeling that those of you who believe that such a conspiracy exists view anything that is printed or on the TV and radio news that doesn't agree with your perception of the world as "biased" reporting. Regarding the information about the current administration getting us into the Iraq mess-the lies, the half truths-have been shown to be true. I hope that you have heard/read the statements by Colin Powell's deputy yesterday describing how, after Powell was given a bunch of lies to use (without his knowledge that they were lies) when he made his speech at the UN as justification of our invasion of Iraq and particularly the part where George Tenent, the then CIA chief, admitting to Powell that the information was from a known unreliable source and was not vetted for accuracy. Of course, there are many people out there who believe that none of this kind of news should be made public because it "helps" the enemy; indeed, any criticism of the war and those who started it is viewed as "unpatriotic" and "not supporting the troops". Should we just let the lies go unchallanged? We are a democracy and that means free speech. The reason that so much bad news out of Iraq is being put out is because most of what is happening is bad-we can barely control the area around Baghdad and virtually none of the promised reconstruction of the country is happening-something like less than 10% of the budget for that has been spent. We cannot win this war and the sooner Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld accept the reality of the situation the better. Most of the American people already feel this way-they who once supported the war; have they all joined the "liberal conspiracy"? Maybe Rush "The Drug Addict" Limbaugh is the only one who speaks the truth, when he's not high. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 20th, 2005, 10:06am on 08/20/05 at 02:14:45, CHTom wrote:
Oh Really? Project Completions Reach Halfway Point The PCO has crossed the halfway completion mark of planned infrastructure projects assigned to it by the U.S. Department of State in Iraq. More than 1600 of the planned 3200 projects—such as power generation and distribution, water treatment, schools, oil production and courthouses (see photo) ―have been certified as successfully completed by the US Army Corps of Engineers. Finished structures are subsequently consigned to the appropriate Iraq ministry http://tinyurl.com/7zby5 |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 20th, 2005, 10:22am Jonny, people that are disconnected to the cause have no idea. I have friends that are there as civilian contractors and things are right on schedule. Problem being the insurgents are blowing up police stations and public buildings as fast as we can resurrect them. Don't waste your words on people that are into the idea that we are killing little kids and sitting on our asses over there. Soldiers are building and learning crafts that they arent even sent over there for. Our guys are volunteering after hours to work at centers for kids etc. My son was instrumental in alot of outside research and information on the streets of Bagdad long after his missions were over. The Americans over there aren't just sleeping.....CH.Tom Ask someone who knows... someone whose kids have been there.....since 2003... has friends near and far who have husbands working there and sacrificing their lives to rebuild that country.... We are doing the best that we can under the circumstance of a WAR happening that keeps holding back and blowing up vehicles with supplies and workers on board..... you try to run a job like that.... sheesh..... I think believing as you do keeps the guilt from welding up inside the people that are just running their mouths and doing nothing..... all I can say is God bless the people that TRY if nothing else to help over there.... TRYING is better than sitting back critisizing...... Amen....ree |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by clarence on Aug 20th, 2005, 10:23am on 08/20/05 at 00:02:04, Ree wrote:
I am not a soldier, nor have I ever been. I respect every person who goes into the armed forces, and serves willingly, even if it means death. I was talking to my wife the other night about this issue, and we came up with many of the smme points that this soldier did in this article. Have we forgotten that we have an all volunteer army? Nobody is forced into service, there is no longer a draft, and every person who enlists presumably knows that there is the risk of death. Also, like many have already said here, I wonder how it honors the memory of her son to show up on the President's front door, of his home not the White House, while he is on vacation, and demand a meeting with him. Not only do I think it is not honoring to her son, I think it is actually rude. Why should the President give in to someone who shows up at his front door and demands his time? Finally, what is the deal with Sheehan talking about the Israel and Palestine? Is she all of a sudden an expert in foreign policy? In diplomacy? I don't think that this is her fault, after all, every person has an opinion on these issues, and has the right to their opinion. I think it is the news media golrifying her crusade, and giving credence to her statements, that is frustrating. Because she has a sad story (and she does), and because she is on the 6 oclock news (everynight), people will start paying more attention to her opinion about Israel and Palestine than to people wh are actually qualified to talk about the issue. I blame the media, and the fact that they are out to make a buck, and this story sells. Money is the bottom line, not truth or beauty...the downside to Capitalism. Casey edit to say: Ree, thanks for the article, I found it very interesting and informative. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 20th, 2005, 11:08am another mom speaks out from New Hampshire http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=59189 By SCOTT BROOKS Union Leader Staff Natalie Healy made a decision this summer after losing her son in war-torn Afghanistan. "I can't go to those mountains and climb them and I can't shoot a gun," she said. "But I can do everything I can to make sure we stay the course, and if that means speaking out, then that's what I want to do." Less than two months after the death of her son, Navy SEAL Senior Chief Petty Officer Daniel Healy, the Exeter mother and small business owner is following through on her word. Natalie Healy of Exeter is shown with her son, Navy SEAL Senior Chief Petty Officer Daniel Healy, at his wedding. (COURTESY PHOTO) Healy is making her feelings known in response to the nation's interest in a California mother who has camped outside President Bush's Texas ranch to protest the war in Iraq. Cindy Sheehan's 24-year-old son was killed in Iraq last year. Healy said she initially sympathized with the grief-stricken mom. Now, however, as Sheehan's message continues to fill the airwaves, Healy said she fears a backlash against the war on terrorism. "It's sort of like a tidal wave," Healy said. "And it's gaining and gaining and gaining. And I'm not sure what will stop it, to tell you the truth. "My big concern is that the enemy will use Cindy Sheehan to their benefit. They will point to her and say, 'See? See how this American is calling the President a murderer? See how they're going to start weakening from within?'" Healy said she was booked to speak on MSNBC's "Hardball" with Chris Matthews last night. The interview got bumped just a few hours before the show, she said. But Healy said spreading her voice to support the war effort is her "new mission in life." "I'm hoping, by having another mother who's lost a son speaking out loudly and strongly, that the troops will hear it and be heartened by it," she said. "Because we all know how they're always shocked when they get home and they find out what has been reported." Several national polls show that a majority of Americans now consider the decision to invade Iraq a mistake. Healy herself said she initially had doubts about the war. She is now convinced the United States cannot leave Iraq just yet. "The fact of the matter is, at this stage in the game, we're over there," she said. "We have to complete the mission." Healy said she doubted Sheehan's son, Casey, would support his mother's mission. Rather, she said, "I think my son would be happy that I was trying to remind people that we have to stay the course. We have to, without a doubt. And I know he'd be saying, 'OK, mom. Good. Good, mom.'" Healy recognized the public's opinion of the Iraqi conflict is not the same as its opinion of the war in Afghanistan, where her son died June 28. Daniel Healy, a 36-year-old father of four, was one of 16 soldiers killed when insurgents shot down their helicopter. But Healy said the two conflicts are part of the same war on terrorism, and it's a war the U.S. must continue to fight. "I think fighting for freedom in Iraq and fighting for freedom in Afghanistan is one and the same," she said. Healy is hopeful that the public will hear both sides in the debate over pulling U.S. troops from Iraq. It would be harmful, she said, if Sheehan's voice carried the day. "I just don't want it to be the only story," Healy said. "I want the other voices to be heard so that the young men that fought with my son — that were broken-hearted from all their buddies getting killed — will know somebody else is speaking out for them. And maybe they won't be heard as much as Cindy Sheehan, but there's somebody trying, anyway." |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 20th, 2005, 11:25am on 08/20/05 at 02:14:45, CHTom wrote:
We can't win it or are there people here who don't want us to win it? Seems to me our troops have done a hell of a fine job. A few die now and then, thats the nature of war. No matter where you are there are going to be a number of people who don't want you there. Most of the insurgents are from out of the country, and the few native ones are sunnis. The best that they can do is put a bomb next to a road and set it off when the people pass by. This causes a few casualties yes, but is it defeating the US military? I don't think so. Keep in mind that we lost more men for less land in the pacific dureing WW2. We lost more men in a few hours than we have in almost three years. Is it a perfect war? No. War is a nasty buisness, mistakes are made, and things change by the minute. But a few defeatist at home is doing nothing to help. It's not vietnam, its not a quagmire, and we are winning whether people like it or not. The Terrorist there think that if they can kill a few soldiers every week that the will of the American people will be broken and we will withdraw. Seems to be working on a few at least........ |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by deltadarlin on Aug 20th, 2005, 6:51pm I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but we do NOT live in a democracy ( my daughter has corrected me many times until I finally got off my ass to do the research myself). We live in a democratic republic and there is a vast difference here. James Madison’s Federalist Paper #10 discusses the issue of Democracies. In it he states: “Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives, as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of Government, have erroneously supposed, that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions and their passions.” We can see from this that Mr. Madison would never have advocated a pure Democracy for his new nation. In Federalist Paper #14 Madison wrote: “The true distinction between these forms...is, that in a Democracy, the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a Republic they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A Democracy consequently will be confined to a small spot. A Republic may be extended over a large region.” Madison continues in Federalist Paper #14 to describe a Republic thusly: “The effect [of having a Republic over a Democracy] (is to) enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice, will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good, than if pronounced by the people themselves convened for the purpose.” Essentially, a Democratic Republic is a limited government with enumerated powers (as specified in a Constitution) which is administered by persons elected by the people. These officials hold office at the pleasure of the electorate and must therefore strive to govern in a manner that is acceptable to the majority of voters. taken from http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/13/DEMvsREPUB.htm Now, as to Iraq, you will NEVER hear about the good things that are happening over there, it doesn't sell newspapers. IF we pull out now, what harm has already been done (and I's not saying this is what the US has done) will be increased a thousand fold. The people of Iraq cannot be left to fend for themselves at this point. Most everyone in the military that I know, has said that to pull out now would be disasterous. As for Ms. Sheehan? She is a disgrace to her son's memory. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Charlie on Aug 21st, 2005, 1:56am I'm not sure when it started exactly but the Federalist Papers have become one of the endless things that have been twisted by the ultra right for its rantings. They are good at this kind of thing. Robert H. Jackson, for instance, was a pretty liberal FDR appointed judge, especially when it came to domestic issues. We know here in Jamestown. The Robert H. Jackson center is here as well as his statue. I for one, would love a democracy. If the GOP would allowe their so-called "up or down" votes on things that the vast majority of the country wants, like national health and social issues, I'd be more inclined to support it. Evidently stifling anyone who disagrees with this war and how it's handled is guilty of treason....The Ann Coulter version is popular with the the far right. Real patriotism is to exercise one's right to protest, no matter how uncomfortable it is for those in power. Going to war can be as well but the the former is what this country is supposed to be all about. "War is the last refuge of the incompetent." Isaac Asimov. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by CHTom on Aug 21st, 2005, 2:34am Maffumat, I'm sure that you didn't mean it, but reading your post about comparing the casualties of WWII and the "relatively few" soldiers that we have lost in Irag appears as if their loss is of not much importance. I don't think that anyone has questioned the bravery of our troops, but they are in a situation in which there are not enough of them to control the country. The majority of he insurgents are Iraqui, not foreigners and the differences between the various Muslim religious factions are more significant than most people realize. The Sunnis, a minority, held the power when Saddam was in charge and now the Shihites have it and want to keep the Sunnis out. At some point a civil war will break out and if our troops get caught up in that they will be in an intennable position and our causualties will go way up. Now George W. has stated that he has not ruled out military action to "take out" Iran's nuclear facilities-he is mad! If that is ever done, we will have the whole Arab world against us and what we are going through now will seem like a walk through the flowers that Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld believed that the Iraquis would shower our soldiers with after the fall of Saddam. Our army is stretched to the limit in terms of its ability to supply our troops-money is so tight that it is almost impossible to order a box of copy paper-I work with this situation daily and worked with it during the first Iraq war and the situation is far worse now and will only get worse as this conflict drags on. By the way, having known many Vietnam combat vets, I salute your father and all of his brother and sister Vietnam vets-those who came home and those who didn't; I also salute those fighting in Iraq, but believe that they never should have been sent there, based on lies and need to be brought home. Today a four-star general said that, given "optimal conditions", we will be there for another four years-and I don't see any optimal conditions appearing any time soon. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 21st, 2005, 2:58am My point was that with the will of the people behind our military, it can and has move mountains and change the world. When the people are behind them that is. People at home screaming We Can Not Win This War affects the moral of the troops. Do you think the men of world war 2 would have fought with the valor that they did if there were protesters at home telling them that what they were fighting for was a lie? That what they going to lose? Telling them that is telling them that they are dieing for nothing.I don't take life lightly, for every person that dies in combat there is a grieveing family at home. You had to search hard to to make that connection in my post and anyone that has been here for any length of time know me better than that.I twork with the army logistics and I can assure you that they get what they ask for and need. And they get it when they need it. If there is any shortages it is at the local logistical level, the army has always been that way and will never change. Your confidence in our military was quite clear in your post, and your defeatism is disheartning to me at least. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by CHTom on Aug 21st, 2005, 3:16am I have the utmost confidence and respect for our military and work in a senior staff postion. We are not fighting WWII; we defeated Saddams army magnifcently but no plans were made for the peace and occupation. Our 130,000 or so troops cannot control a country of 20 or 30 million people, especially with the internal conflicts present in Iraq; our troops are not trained to be cops. Perhaps we could bring some more order to the country if the amount of troops were increased, but it would have to be drastically increased to somewhere around 500,000 troops. Putting aside any political differences about the war, the simple fact is that we cannot afford to send so many troops and our military would be stretched so thin that we could not handle another major crisis that demanded military intervention. The war planning was not realistic but simplistic-"Shock and Awe" was supposed to so terrify the population and Iraqui military that they would all just give up-it turned out just to be a fireworks show that accomplished nothing in the long run. We are now in a guerilla war, which our leaders said would never happen. The opposition appears to have an endless supply of men WANTING to die killing Americans-how can our few troops defeat that? I predict that a civil war will break out while we are there and then we will be in a real mess and I don't know how we will get out of that. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 21st, 2005, 4:05am Gee Tom, not one word out of you about my post...remember you said there was no rebuilding in Iraq? Tom, are you a troll? |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 21st, 2005, 4:14am I am pretty sur Bagdad Bob was shocked and awed when we were rolling into Bagdad as he was telling the people on TV we wern't. We could have done a real shock and awe with B52's. They leave nice big holes were cities once stood. Is that what you are suggesting? As for the suicide bombers, we faced them in WW2 only they were Kamakazis then, I believe we won that one. Basicly what your saying is that if a few people kill themselves and take a few Americans with them there is no way to win. You don't see this being a problem in future wars? The precident that it sets? Kill a few Americans and they run. They learned that lesson in Somolia and they are trying to duplicate it in Iraq. Our military thinks that they are up to the task in Iraq, I tend to believe their learned opinions more than I do a sideline observer getting his information from the press.. As far as the sunnis go, I am quite aware of the danger there. So are the shiites, and the Kurds. I believe that they have shown great restaint, being that they want a want a successful goverment. I personaly think it would have been better to divide the country up into three countries, but Turkey would have had real issues with that because of the Kurds. What you don't see on TV is the local populace giveing up the outside influences, these are the guys that are blowing themselves up. Not the Iraqis. And they are killing Iraqis at a much higher rate than they are targeting us. This is what is turning them against the terrorist. There are troubled areas in Iraq, but there are also areas that are booming. You just don't see that on the TV. You can call me naive if you like but I don't think we should cut and run. I don't think its a lost cause, and I don't think that the men fighting and dieing are doing it for nothing. They at least believe in what they are doing and as long as they believe that the American people are behind them they continue to do the job we ask of them with pride and honor. edited to add.........The purpose of posting my fathers story was to show that the men there need us behind them, cheering them on. Our military learned the lesson of Vietnam, this war is not being micromanaged from Washington. The American people need to be reminded of what happens when we are divided at home. We lose. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 21st, 2005, 5:02am on 08/21/05 at 03:01:11, CHTom wrote:
Your kidding right? Just how does one know they have a Kip 10 when they dont know they have a Kip 10? In my opinion.....Fucking troll! Edit to add:.......It seems like Tom joined us just as Hdildo/John stopped posting, Tom seems to be spuing the same crap that the dildo did.....Hmmmmm! Troll?....you be the judge ;;D |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by CHTom on Aug 21st, 2005, 5:20am Sorry, but I was answering another post, not yours. How do I know I have a kip 10? Easy-I've had them and then stressful situations have come up and my mind is distracted from the pain. It appears, jonny, that you want to pick a fight, but that is not what I am here for, so I won't play that game and get into name calling. Muffumatt, politics aside, as I wrote earlier, financially we can't afford the resources necessary to keep our troops there for years to win the war and I do believe that once we do leave the situation will deteriorate. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 21st, 2005, 5:30am on 08/21/05 at 05:20:22, CHTom wrote:
Damn!, you must be the Superman of CH John, a full blown 10 just goes away? You must be one of the lucky ones |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 21st, 2005, 5:45am When it comes to defence spending we always can afford it, even if we have to put out war bonds, or take from less important programs. We have been in Germany for decades, Japan too, seems we have been useing our bases there to protect Europe from the communist east. I believe Iraq is our base of operations for the Middle East as Germany was ours for Europe, and Japan is for the far East. Stepping down in europe where we are not needed and stepping up in the middle east where we are. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 21st, 2005, 9:19am Back on topic here's another mother to be proud of... http://www.news10.net/storyfull1.asp?id=12639 ree |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 21st, 2005, 9:33am Subject: JOHN GLENN'S ASSESMENT OF THE IRAQ WAR...IMPORTANT "Well said John Glenn!" Things that hopefully will make you think a little........ 1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders during the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq. 2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following .. FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year. John F. Kennedy. ..started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions. 3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us: President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban,crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman. Wait, there's more....................... Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living. This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of our military. JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for the Senate when you've never held a real job?" Senator Glenn replied: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job. You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch all those people waving flags. You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty - that was more important than life itself. And - their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible. I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?" For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA John Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 21st, 2005, 9:40am http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/morse200508180821.asp ABOUT CASEY NOT HIS MOM.....BUT SHE HAS MADE IT ALL ABOUT HER...... |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by LadyElaine on Aug 21st, 2005, 9:56am Ree I agree with you all the way. Your post say it all to me. God Bless you Lady! |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Jonny on Aug 21st, 2005, 12:48pm Time for some comic relief in this here thread ;;D http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=12293 I dont care which side you stand on, you got to admit ,this is damn funny....LOL |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 21st, 2005, 1:42pm Ree, Well said. Jonny, where do you find the time to find that stuff, very funny. Notice on the news that the terrorist are threatening to kill all polititions involved in the constitution in Iraq. I don't see them running, seems they want freedom more than they fear death...............Even the Sunnis................................ |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Ree on Aug 21st, 2005, 3:30pm LOLOL jonny you the man.....lol ree and yes we did need some comic relief.....hehe |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 21st, 2005, 4:06pm CHTom, 1. You state that we "cant afford" to spend any more resources in Iraq, and that is why we can only have 130 to 150k troops there. By "cant afford", are you meaning the financial cost? Well, not to burst your bubble, but we "cant afford" to even have 1 troop there if you are talking financially. We are in debt. If "being able to afford" means that we are able to purchase a service without going into debt, we cant afford to have even 1 troop there. This administration has no regard for raising debt, and in self defense situations, not many americans do. Even though i am a fiscal conservative, i would have no problem with the administration spending any money they want in an HONEST and INTELLIGENT attempt to mow down radical muslims that want to harm me. Financially, we can raise as much debt as we need in order to pay for this til we can cover it. 2. You must be a sufferer of some other sort of headache. Clusters are debilitating. A kip 10 is most certainly debilitating. If i get even a kip 5 to 6, i would like to be alone, which means at that point i am debilitated. At kip 9 i have a very difficult time even changing O2 tanks, or loading a syrenge. BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by LeLimey on Aug 21st, 2005, 4:20pm Ree as usual very well said young lady :) Jonny that was hilarious, the UN stuff and Tony Blair had me sitting cross legged.. you bugger!!! [smiley=laugh.gif] BMonee... You seem to have lost your's so here you go.. http://image60.webshots.com/160/1/63/78/413516378InKxTg_ph.jpg I hope it helps. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 21st, 2005, 4:52pm [smiley=frown.gif] That wasnt very nice. I was telling Tom that his fiscal reason as to why we cant send any troops anywhere is bullshit. :-/ BMonee |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by CHTom on Aug 21st, 2005, 9:01pm Check this website out to find out more about the John Glenn-Howard Metzenbaum controversy: http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/glenn.asp Things are not always as they seem. |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by Charlie on Aug 22nd, 2005, 3:40am on 08/21/05 at 05:45:04, maffumatt wrote:
........Don't fall into that trap. History, Matt. History. Actually, it's good to be spread out. We can be obnoxious all over the world. That hasn't been always bad though. The thing about Iraq is that they have no ethnic identiy. They have tribal and religous identity. They aren't going to share power, not really. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Time for Cindy Sheehan to STFU! Post by maffumatt on Aug 22nd, 2005, 6:40am Yea I know Charlie, thats why I believe it would have been better to split the country up into three seperate countries. Kurdsistan in the north, Shiites in the south, and the Sunnis in the central part of the country. Only thing is there are Kurdish rebels in Turkey and Turkey thought if the Kurds had their homeland, they would give the Turkish Kurds ideas. The Sunnis dont like the Idea because they wouldn't get any land with oil. The swamp arabs are just screwed, Sadam drained their swamps and scattered them. On top of everything else they have different religous ideas too. A Federation would probably be best for them, but its up to the Iraqis if they fail or not, lets hope they dont. |
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