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(Message started by: TheMasterBaker on Aug 17th, 2005, 9:12am)

Title: We knew...
Post by TheMasterBaker on Aug 17th, 2005, 9:12am
Oh No.......unbelievable.....

Officer Says Military Blocked Sharing of Files on Terrorists (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/17/politics/17intel.html?ei=5065&en=2aeff500108cbed3&ex=1124942400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print)


WASHINGTON, Aug. 16 - A military intelligence team repeatedly contacted the F.B.I. in 2000 to warn about the existence of an American-based terrorist cell that included the ringleader of the Sept. 11 attacks, according to a veteran Army intelligence officer who said he had now decided to risk his career by discussing the information publicly.

The officer, Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, said military lawyers later blocked the team from sharing any of its information with the bureau....


GOD help us...

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by thomas on Aug 17th, 2005, 9:19am
Yes and if the executive branch of our government had been getting people in position after the election to handle this stuff instead of going through a pointless court battle over hanging chads, perhaps something could have been done.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Kirk on Aug 17th, 2005, 9:19am
Shamefull. But we already knew it.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by burnt-toast on Aug 17th, 2005, 9:23am
Isn't the first time we were swept into a war because intelligence was withheld.  It's good to get the people all fired up by some unprovoked attack to justify the retaliation that follows.

GOD help us......  is right,

But.... God watch over our troops, bring them home safely and protect the next generation of men and women from war.......  is also appropriate.


Tom    

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 17th, 2005, 9:30am
And if you look at the date of the turn over it was prior to bubba leaving office, but I guess he had important things to do like removing all the W's from all the white house computers. and telling his appointees to hang on to there positions till forced to leave, instead of transitioning properly to the new apointee. The he also had to pardon convicted drug dealers and murders. Ok 1 murderer. That is as you said though a shame. I just hope that we will learn from those events and allow the different departments to share info, its better but still not good enough.

Sorry just had to vent. Thanks for listening.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 17th, 2005, 12:05pm

Quote:
Yes and if the executive branch of our government had been getting people in position after the election to handle this stuff instead of going through a pointless court battle over hanging chads, perhaps something could have been done.


After 9/11, an FBI translator testified to Congress that thousands of hours of wiretaps were not being translated. As a reward, she was fired by the FBI.  It's now 2005, and the problem is no where close to being solved.  It seems most Americans have put the 2000 election behind them, except for people making excuses for the Bush administration.  And what about the right-sizing downsizing of the unit whose job is to trace the terrorist's money??  


Quote:
And if you look at the date of the turn over it was prior to bubba leaving office, but I guess he had important things to do like removing all the W's from all the white house computers. and telling his appointees to hang on to there positions till forced to leave, instead of transitioning properly to the new apointee.


When I lived in South Carolina, a favorite saying was "Thank God for Mississippi!"  Carolina was second to bottom on so many lists (infant mortality, high school drop-outs, etc).  I guess Clinton is like Mississippi - his mistakes can be invoked to deflect accountability for anything the current bozos do.


Quote:
The officer, Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, said military lawyers later blocked the team from sharing any of its information with the bureau....


Yes, the military lawyers (not Bubba) made a decision to enforce the laws that were in effect at that time.  The Posse Comitatus Act was passed due to resentment in the southern states over their military occupation after the Civil War. This act established separation between the domestic law enforcement agencies and the military.

Over a century of the Posse Comitatus Act led to a body of law that the military lawyers enforced properly. They thought that this Atta character was shady and might be up to something criminal, but they had no idea what, and they were prohibited from passing their files to other agencies.  The prohibitions of the Posse Comitatus Act were changed with the Patriot Act, which now allows the military to coordinate activities with civilian law enforcement if they think it is a matter of terrorism. The Patriot Act was passed in spite of the fact that the 'W's were removed from the White House typewriters, but not until after Congress was stampeded by the events of 9/11.

So you can blame Bubba, or you can blame the plantation owners who should have picked their own damn cotton.  Bill Clinton is a convienent a whipping boy for those who can't handle the truth.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Frank_W on Aug 17th, 2005, 12:16pm
Prostitution: The first oldest profession.
Politics: The second oldest profession. (It bears an amazing similarity to the first!)

BOHICA translates to, "Business as usual" on Capitol Hill.


Title: Re: We knew...
Post by JDH on Aug 17th, 2005, 12:25pm
As usual, excellent post Flo'  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Jim

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by thomas on Aug 17th, 2005, 12:28pm

on 08/17/05 at 12:05:02, floridian wrote:
 It seems most Americans have put the 2000 election behind them

No, I still hear about the "stolen election" and "It's sad the every vote didn't count".  To this day.  But if memory serves me right there was one party in that election that did everything they could to keep military absentee votes from being counted.  We support the troops, my ass.  Flo, you know I love you and appreciate all that you do, it can't be helped that we will always disagree on this stuff.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 17th, 2005, 12:56pm

on 08/17/05 at 12:05:02, floridian wrote:
After 9/11, an FBI translator testified to Congress that thousands of hours of wiretaps were not being translated. As a reward, she was fired by the FBI.  It's now 2005, and the problem is no where close to being solved.  It seems most Americans have put the 2000 election behind them, except for people making excuses for the Bush administration.  And what about the right-sizing downsizing of the unit whose job is to trace the terrorist's money??  




Actually she was fired for testifying to the news media.
But have to agree not nearly enough being done still and way to slowly.


Quote:
I guess Clinton is like Mississippi - his mistakes can be invoked to deflect accountability for anything the current bozos do.  


Actually the clinton network news and other lib Rags have (relatively sucessfully I should say) attempet to forget what he did and did not do and act as though alot of the events like this memo are new but was actually released prior to 2000.


Quote:
No, I still hear about the "stolen election" and "It's sad the every vote didn't count".  To this day.  But if memory serves me right there was one party in that election that did everything they could to keep military absentee votes from being counted.  We support the troops, my ass.  Flo, you know I love you and appreciate all that you do, it can't be helped that we will always disagree on this stuff.


Got to agree the only whinning I ever hear about the 2000 election is from the libs and then they try to act as if everyone else  is upset to make them selves feel better.

There are so many examples of this I have posted in the past I could be here all week reposting. Do love ya bro but we will dissagree on this I guess

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:02pm

on 08/17/05 at 12:28:06, thomas wrote:
But if memory serves me right there was one party in that election that did everything they could to keep military absentee votes from being counted.


Yes, there were people who said the intent of the voter didn't matter - rules are rules, and if the ballot wasn't cast in the proper way, by the deadline, not a clean punch, etc., then it shouldn't be counted.  Some of the partisans wanted to zap military ballots that did not meet every requirement on the theory that the military vote would be more Republican, other partisans wanted to zap Miami ballots that were not perfect on the theory that a poorer, more Hispanic populace would be more likely to vote Democratic.  Both sides were craven.

My favorite is Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell - he rejected thousands of applications to register voters because the paper was not of the weight specified by the law. But he only rejected applications printed by dem/left/minority groups, and the forms distributed by his own office did not meet the paper weight requirements.


Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:14pm
Now that part about ohio is correct ... Finially someone brought that up was waiting for it. On that I will agree he did try. almost succeded too, but All the actual votes did get counted and the duplicate ones and dead poeple votes got tossed

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by nani on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:17pm
I've pretty much decided that anyone who makes a career of (what is supposed to be) public service is either a dicksplat, swizzlenuts or dimple dick.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by LeLimey on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:21pm
or self-serving-scum-suckin-bottom-feedin-pond-life maybe Nani?

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by nani on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:23pm

on 08/17/05 at 13:21:56, LeLimey wrote:
or self-serving-scum-suckin-bottom-feedin-pond-life maybe Nani?


Yeah...that, too!  ;)

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Frank_W on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:24pm

on 08/17/05 at 13:17:31, nani wrote:
I've pretty much decided that anyone who makes a career of (what is supposed to be) public service is either a dicksplat, swizzlenuts or dimple dick.



[smiley=spit.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:31pm
And the profession is so appropately named

Poly- latin for many
Tics- little blood sucking creatures

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Melissa on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:52pm

on 08/17/05 at 13:17:31, nani wrote:
I've pretty much decided that anyone who makes a career of (what is supposed to be) public service is either a dicksplat, swizzlenuts or dimple dick.

Nani, can I quote you on this and put it in my siggy?

;;D

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 17th, 2005, 1:59pm
On the subject of the 2000 election, why cant someone get the facts about the vote numbers.  Fox news says that Bush won under all instances of how they were counted, Air America says that Gore won no matter how you count them.
On an issue like this, where we arent talking about opinions, howcome we cant just get a straight freaking answer?  These are numbers, there is no opinion.  Its kind of like binary code with no wiggle room, you either count the vote for Gore, or you count it for Bush.  they are absolute values.
Howcome we still cant get a straight answer on the election from almost 5 years ago?  Everything is spun and re-spun and deflected so eventually people stop asking.
Just the facts would be nice
BMonee

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by nani on Aug 17th, 2005, 2:00pm

on 08/17/05 at 13:52:51, Melissa wrote:
Nani, can I quote you on this and put it in my siggy?

;;D


LOL...I can't take credit for those, Mel. I got them off another thread. Dicksplat is Helen's and Swizzlenuts and dimpledick are giffy's.  ;;D

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by LeLimey on Aug 17th, 2005, 2:03pm
Use whatever you like of mine anytime I say it Mel! I've never been quoted except in a court of law!!   [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 17th, 2005, 2:04pm
The funny thing is that every one hates politicians, but people keep re-electing their incumbent ...  Washington is filled with crooks, but most believe that the sons and daughters that their own district sends to the hill are the exceptions to the rule.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 17th, 2005, 2:14pm

on 08/17/05 at 14:04:50, floridian wrote:
The funny thing is that every one hates politicians, but people keep re-electing their incumbent ...  Washington is filled with crooks, but most believe that the sons and daughters that their own district sends to the hill are the exceptions to the rule.


I haven't met many that would regard their rep's as "sons and daughters", I tend to lean toward thinking of them as "muthers" and "bastards" myself.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by vig on Aug 17th, 2005, 2:42pm
disappointing.... >:(

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Melissa on Aug 17th, 2005, 2:52pm
TY LeLimey, Nani & Giffy! ;)

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 17th, 2005, 3:54pm

on 08/17/05 at 14:04:50, floridian wrote:
The funny thing is that every one hates politicians, but people keep re-electing their incumbent ...  Washington is filled with crooks, but most believe that the sons and daughters that their own district sends to the hill are the exceptions to the rule.



That's because a huge population of registered voters, don't vote.  A huge population of those that do vote don't read/listen/learn about the candidates views on important issues.  An even huger population of those that do vote only vote for the "name" on the ballot because they've heard this person's name somewhere before so he must be OK.  

The uninformed voters are what is destroying this country by re-electing the dipshitz.  And, another thing that REALLY gets my goat, are those people who complain very loudly about what a bad job their representatives are doing, taxes, cost of medical care, on and on and on.  BUT THEY DON'T VOTE!  Almost threw a woman off an airplane when she said that to me!  

  [smiley=mad.gif] [smiley=mad.gif] [smiley=mad.gif]

Sandy

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 17th, 2005, 4:10pm
Can I borrow you for my next trip? [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by thomas on Aug 17th, 2005, 4:34pm
They keep re-electing them, because no one who is worthy  for office has the money, power or influence to run for office.  And a good common sense politician would get run right out of town by special interest groups.  Sadly, we are at the mercy of the ONE political party that is in power, the Demapublicans.  We need a revolution, I'm not kidding.  At all.  90% of elected officials in D.C. are proven enemies of the U.S. Constitution and if the other 10% are there for any length of time they will be corrupted also, you can't swim in the sewer with out smelling like shit when you are done.  We need to have a national election where 100% of the votes cast, are for some one other than the people listed on the ballot, or 100% of the ballots cast are empty.  But that will never happen, because the average voter is a moron, who is a danger to him/herself around sharp objects.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 17th, 2005, 4:38pm
If Osama was a woman Clinton would have nailed him years ago ;;D

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by BobG on Aug 17th, 2005, 5:05pm

on 08/17/05 at 16:38:09, Jonny wrote:
If Osama was a woman Clinton would have nailed him years ago ;;D


I don't think so. Even Hillary has higher standards than that.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 17th, 2005, 5:45pm

on 08/17/05 at 16:34:16, thomas wrote:
 But that will never happen, because the average voter is a moron, who is a danger to him/herself around sharp objects.


Who is the bigger danger, Bro?

Those who vote for the idiot that will hurt them less or the non elected idiots that send out $750,000 fines for penis jokes but let this on our broadcast tv?

This shit would pull an "R-17"rating in the movies, no?

The warnings are all in place on this link
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/worstclips.wmv

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by maffumatt on Aug 17th, 2005, 7:29pm
http://www.newsmax.com/audio/BILLVH.mp3

Clinton had his chance to get Bin Laden and he let it slip out of his fingers. This was after the first trade center bombing, after the cole bombing, and several more acts.


edited for spelling before Jonny dings me for it..........

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Charlie on Aug 17th, 2005, 7:49pm

Quote:
. Bill Clinton is a convienent a whipping boy for those who can't handle the truth.


Yes and you can depend on the politicians in office. Again, the one thing you can count on is for this adminstration to never admit a mistake or take responsibility for its incredibly inept war planning, and its countless attacks on the Bill of Rights. It would be nice if while they are working on the Iraqi consitution, they stop rewriting ours.

I am of course was pleased as punch that the 2000 final vote count was in George Bush's brother's state. Can't beat that for fair and balanced.

Now here is the kind of thing you would never hear from those that worship the very ground that this coup stomps on. No one could have imagined 9/11. You cannot blame Bush or anyone else for this kind of horror. It's a bit like Pearl Harbor in some ways. The latter caught everyone with their pants down. Frankly, it was a brilliant example of short term military planning. We thought it was nearly impossible because of logistics and for other reasons. 9/11 is another story but although somewhere around a billion people watched it, we still can't get around it. It still seems like fiction. I don't think it was the fault of any one  government bureau. Who could have thought it was possible?

Charlie

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 17th, 2005, 7:51pm

on 08/17/05 at 19:29:55, maffumatt wrote:
edited for spelling before Jonny dings me for it..........


LMMFAO....Matt.....I cant spell for shit and I have nearly no idea what punctuation is......ROTFF ;;D

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Charlie on Aug 17th, 2005, 7:59pm

Quote:
Clinton had his chance to get Bin Laden and he let it slip out of his fingers. This was after the first trade center bombing, after the cole bombing, and several more acts.


Bush has had no luck either but at least Clinton took aim at the right piece of real estate. When Bush fucks up thousands die.

Charlie

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by maffumatt on Aug 17th, 2005, 8:10pm
We have defeated a countrys military, captured its leadership, and fought a two year insurgency with military losses of less than 2000 men and women. That is less than the deaths of 9/11. Only somone who wishes us to fail would call that a failure. When we were  attacked Clinton only responded when he was in hot water. His best response ? lob a few missile at am asprin factory .

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Charlie on Aug 17th, 2005, 8:38pm
Wrong target in any case.

As Bill Maher said: The kids over there are our best and they get stuck taking care of us.

Charlie

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Melissa on Aug 17th, 2005, 9:41pm
Here is an op. ed. piece by a guy who I don't always agree with on various subjects, but I think he nailed it TO THE WALL with this piece...

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7111.shtml



edited to add: Holy Caca Charlie, Bill Maher's gonna be on Bill O'Reilly in about 3 minutes on Fox News! LMFAO!!! ;)

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by CHTom on Aug 17th, 2005, 10:59pm
Infants have been not allowed to board airline flights because someone with their name is on the government's "no fly" list....not too long ago, two private planes penetrated the supposedly secure "no fly" zone near the White House; although F-16s were sent up, by the time that they got there, had either of those two civilian planes been hostile and armed with rockets, or been piloted by suicide pilots, the White House would have gone poof!  Homeland security?  Your tax dollars at waste.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Charlie on Aug 18th, 2005, 4:13am
When screening does work, it usually works against the very people it's designed to protect.

Homeland Security is an illusion that costs us a fortune and eats away at our freedom. It does that very well.

Charlie

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by maffumatt on Aug 18th, 2005, 6:02am
when will we know when homeland security works?  We will only know when it doesn't.............

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Frank_W on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:29am

on 08/17/05 at 21:41:58, Melissa wrote:
Here is an op. ed. piece by a guy who I don't always agree with on various subjects, but I think he nailed it TO THE WALL with this piece...

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article7111.shtml


I agree, Mel. Very well-written article.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by thomas on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:40am

on 08/17/05 at 19:49:56, Charlie wrote:
Yes and you can depend on the politicians in office. Again, the one thing you can count on is for this adminstration to never admit a mistake or take responsibility

Show me an administration in any one's lifetime that has done it.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by CHTom on Aug 18th, 2005, 10:57am
I agree, Charlie.  Our government has been encouraging a climate of fear in our country (though, thankfully, they have stopped issuing those stupid color alerts); we may well have another terrorist attack, but we are not going to be invaded, though that seems to be the atmosphere.  We now have in place the perfect setup to pass more bills, like the "Patriot" Act that will take away our constitutional rights:  we had 9/11, we are involved in a war (and a no-win one at that that is bankrupting us), we have our scapegoats in place-Muslims, but the dark skinned ones for Muslims are a religious group, not an ethnic one, so how do you tell who is one anyhow?  Profiling!  Dark skin, young males, "look" Middle Eastern, whatever that is.  People are running around scared and Big Brother will step in and take care of us, but the price will be loss of privacy, loss of basic civil rights, detention without charges, closed trials (on "National Security" grounds).  Bin Laden and all of the other terrorists don't have to launch an attack-our government is achieving their aims right now by destroying our Constitution and ruining our economy.  With the growing influence of the "Christian" right, they've even managed to start setting us on the road towards a theocracy.  I fear for my country and if an attack does take place somewhere, I thihk that it will just speed up the process of our losing our democracy.  There was no reason to go into Iraq, they were no threat to us or anyone else-now how the hell are we going to get out?  George Bush Sr. knew that going on to Baghdad would get us stuck in quicksand and that is why he didn't after we drove the Iraquis out of Kuwait in the first Gulf War-too bad his son didn't listen to him and too bad he watched too many John Wayne movies.  We are approaching the 2000 mark of dead American servicemembers-dead for what?  How many more will have to die so that Bush can save face?

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by TheMasterBaker on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:00pm
Profiling?

http://www.danzfamily.com/pictures/pictures02/hijackers.jpg

Anyone else see a pattern here?

::)

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:51pm

on 08/17/05 at 20:10:56, maffumatt wrote:
We have defeated a countrys military, captured its leadership, and fought a two year insurgency with military losses of less than 2000 men and women. That is less than the deaths of 9/11. Only somone who wishes us to fail would call that a failure. When we were  attacked Clinton only responded when he was in hot water. His best response ? lob a few missile at am asprin factory .


We sacrificed 2000 American lives, have 20,000 with serious permanent injuries, and an unknown number that will come home with ptsd. We have spent 500 billion dollars.  For what?

To defeat a country that was not a threat to us?  To try to spread democracy when we have only fanned the flames of theocracy and extremism?  To interject ourselves into the middle of what is turning into a 3 way civil war?

Colin Powel was right, but we went in without much thought of an exit strategy. So Colin Powell resigned.

General Shinseki was right, but we chose only to commit enough troops to win the initial war, not to secure the peace. So we won, and are now losing.

Your are full of BS when you say that only someone who wishes the US to fail would call this war a failure - unless the Pentagon and intelligence agencies are riddled with traitors.  But there is a reason that much of the pro-war movement is now busy finding scapegoats for the possibility that we will not ultimately be sucessful.

This isn't Vietnam - Bush has had a free hand to wage the war as he sees fit; the decisions that got us where we are today were not influenced by people opposed to the war.  This wasn't a gradually escalating war spread over multiple presidencies.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by CHTom on Aug 18th, 2005, 1:58pm
How about the Brazilian guy in London-Muslim extremist?  No, brown skin.  How about baby's not being allowed to fly?  Profiling is useless; should the airlines stop and search every male that has tan skin and dark hair?  Latest news is that we (the gov't) really screwed up with the 9/11 guys...had intelligence on them and didn't use it.  The "shoe bomber" was caucasion and the Army reservist who wanted to sell arms to Al-Quida is white (he got convicted).  Profiling of blacks and Hispanics in the 80's and 90's was an expensive waste of police time and a racist policy to boot-guys were stopped because of the color of their skin and because they drove expensive cars.  We "profiled" Japanese Americans during WWII, put many of them in concentration camps, particularly those on the west coast yet among the Japanese Americans who were not interred, not a single one committed an act of espionage or sabotage; further, they formed the Nisei (sp?) Army division and became the most decorated division during WWII in Europe.  Racial profiling, IMO, is ineffective; gathering intelligence, like the FBI did with the Mafia, and using it in court got convictions and broke the back of the mob; IMO, that is the way to stop terrorism in the US.  By the way, all of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, one of our "allies" in the GWOT and not an Iraqui amonst them.  Our police agencies have got to be more efficient in the use of intelligence gathering.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 2:08pm

on 08/18/05 at 13:00:25, TheMasterBaker wrote:
Profiling?

Anyone else see a pattern here?

::)


Yes, I'm starting to see it.   Add those pictures of the Arab looking 9-11 bombers to the pictures of the black London bombers from Ethiopia, Sudan and Jamaica, and blend in the Asian Al Qaedas that bombed the night club in Bali where Australians hung out, and the picture is clear. Start scrutinizing people with brown or black skin, or Asian style eyes.  Facial hair is suspect, as is the absence. The picture you presented suggest that short hair is a tip-off, while the picture of Richard Reid adds long scraggly hair to our profile.  Only true Aryans like Timothy McVeigh can be trusted.  

STFU. Your racism adds nothing constructive. Really.



Title: Re: We knew...
Post by TheMasterBaker on Aug 18th, 2005, 3:44pm
Not racism...fear....we are under attack...from within and outside....and I see your point....do you see mine?

There is a point......the truth lies somewhere in the gray between the black and white.....

War sucks....I know....I grew up an a Military Base..

Relax..... ;)

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 4:04pm

on 08/18/05 at 14:08:33, floridian wrote:
Yes, I'm starting to see it.   Add those pictures of the Arab looking 9-11 bombers to the pictures of the black London bombers from Ethiopia, Sudan and Jamaica, and blend in the Asian Al Qaedas that bombed the night club in Bali where Australians hung out, and the picture is clear. Start scrutinizing people with brown or black skin, or Asian style eyes.  Facial hair is suspect, as is the absence. The picture you presented suggest that short hair is a tip-off, while the picture of Richard Reid adds long scraggly hair to our profile.  Only true Aryans like http://www.m90.org/show_image.php?image_id=6643&medium can be trusted.  

STFU. Your racism adds nothing constructive. Really.


Seems to me that if we profile these types the bad guys are going to be forced to start recruiting white males, maybe then we can get a few good guys in their house and fuck them up before they do us.

Hey Flo, chill ;;D

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Charlie on Aug 18th, 2005, 5:51pm
You're never going to get around this kind profiling. It gets worse every day. It's not all our fault though. We could use some help. Muslims need to say more than that it's a real problem and that it wasn't our group. It's in their best interest too.

You'd think George Bush would take some time off from his bike riding, shrub clearing and golfing just to explain why 2,000 Americans have to die trying to do what history has proven not too fuckin' bright.

Perhaps I'd feel better if some of his CEO friends and gung ho Congressmen had kids in the fray as well. Old men send (in this case, exclusively poor) young men off to war.

A sensitive group they are. A quote back during the Gulf War:

"I just don't like taking questions on serious matters on my vacation," the usually good-natured Bush senior barked at reporters on the golf course. "So I hope you'll understand if I, when I'm recreating, will recreate." His hot-tempered oldest son, who was golfing with his father that day, was even more irritated. "Hey! Hey!" W. snapped at reporters asking questions on the first tee. "Can't you wait until we finish hitting, at least?"

Junior always had his priorities straight.

This president is in a truly scary place in Iraq. Americans can't get out, or they risk turning the country into a terrorist haven that will make the Afghanistan look like a tea social.

The people of Iraq have ethnic and religious identities, not a national identity. Shiites and Kurds want to suppress the Sunnis who once repressed them. Not a good foundation.

At long last, a senior Bush official admits that administration officials can no longer cling to their own version of reality. "We are in a process of absorbing the factors of the situation we're in and shedding the unreality that dominated at the beginning,"

"We are in a process of absorbing the factors of the situation---------." You gotta be kiddin'

We're in a lot of trouble folks.

Charlie


Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Bob P on Aug 18th, 2005, 6:20pm

Quote:
You'd think George Bush would take some time off from his bike riding, shrub clearing and golfing just to explain why 2,000 Americans have to die trying to do what history has proven not too fuckin' bright.
I'd feel a whole lot better if he'd just hang around the White House and hump a few interns.

I say profile those scrungy rags right off their empty heads and ignore the politically correct, personal freedom schmucks who will get a whole lot of innocent people killed.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 6:26pm

on 08/18/05 at 15:44:05, TheMasterBaker wrote:
Not racism...fear....we are under attack...from within and outside....and I see your point....do you see mine?

There is a point......the truth lies somewhere in the gray between the black and white.....

War sucks....I know....I grew up an a Military Base..

Relax..... ;)



OK, so I got heated up. But profiling is not effective, and not a good idea.  Even the male factor is not that useful - several of the terrorist attacks in Moscow have been carried out by women, the "Black Widows" whose husbands were killed in Russia's war against Chechnya.  

We aren't even following up on real intelligence that we do have - recorded wiretaps of people that we have a reason to suspect,  the international money trail (that leads to too many prominent Saudis).  Why put more resources into an inneficient method of trying to catch someone, when we are ignoring much of the best information that we have.  

Profiling isn't very effective, and the price is too high (in dollars, and in civil liberties), and the fact that there were some genetic similiarities between the 9/11 cell members doesn't mean those similarities extend to all the people out there that might be that type of killer.  

If we're really serious about this terror thing, lets implant chips in everyone to monitor where they go and who they associate with, document everyone's religious, sexual and political thought and practice, and institute strict control over firearms, knives, and chemicals that could be used illicitly.  Then things will be fine.

 

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 6:34pm

on 08/18/05 at 18:26:04, floridian wrote:
and the fact that there were some genetic similiarities between the 9/11 cell members doesn't mean those similarities extend to all the people out there that might be that type of killer.  


"some genetic similiarities"

Some?........Get fucking real Dude....Some?

You sir are an idiot....Opps, sorry, I got heated ;;D


Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 6:47pm

on 08/18/05 at 18:34:25, Jonny wrote:
"some genetic similiarities"

Some?........Get fucking real Dude....Some?

You sir are an idiot....Opps, sorry, I got heated ;;D


Coming from you, that's an honor.   ;;D

I am actually better at distinguishing between nationalities and races than 99% of the American public.  I walked up to a bell-hop in a hotel once and asked him how Khadafi was because I thought he looked Libyan, and he was.  I have identified people in New York and Chicago as being from Belgium, Estonia/Finland, Ireland, Bulgaria and Germany by their looks ... I'm not 100% acccurate, but am close when I get a hunch.   Where most people see an Asian, I can often distinguish between Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean and Japanese (and certainly between some one from Han China and an ethnic Malay).


Quote:
Why do 'they all look alike'?        

It's not that people can't perceive subtle differences among those who belong to other racial groups. Rather, they code race first, then don't explore a person's more distinguishing features, a new study suggests.

People are notoriously awful at recognizing faces from other races. It's a human foible often explained by the notion that we have more experience looking at members of our own race and thus acquire "perceptual expertise" for characteristics of our own kind.

...

Instead, he says, people place inordinate emphasis on race categories--whether someone is white, black or Asian--ignoring information that would help them recognize people as individuals. In recent research, Levin has shown that people can, in fact, perceive fine differences among faces of people from other races--as long as they're using those differences to make race classifications.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/dec00/lookalike.html


Maybe the terrorists have Leonid faces and orange-peel skin - since facial profiling doesn't work so great for identifying cluster heads, I guess we could let em have ours.  

Or maybe I see differences where you lump them all together.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:01pm

on 08/18/05 at 18:47:47, floridian wrote:
Maybe the terrorists have Leonid faces and orange-peel skin - since facial profiling doesn't work so great for identifying cluster heads, I guess we could let em have ours.  

Or maybe I see differences where you lump them all together.


Give me a break....if a black/asian/muslim dude robs seven banks in Boston over a six month period....who do you think they are looking at?

Your orange peel shit dose not hold water my friend!

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Charlie on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:02pm

Quote:
I'd feel a whole lot better if he'd just hang around the White House and hump a few interns.


Me too. No one ever needed a blow job more than George Bush.

Charlie

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by TheMasterBaker on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:07pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:02:58, Charlie wrote:
Me too. No one ever needed a blow job more than George Bush.

Charlie


Cept' maybe Al Gore... ;;D

Bwah  hah haha.....LOL

You are still my favorite liberal Charlie.....hell I might even change sides one day!

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:17pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:01:48, Jonny wrote:
Give me a break....if a black/asian/muslim dude robs seven banks in Boston over a six month period....who do you think they are looking at?


Your analysis is totally worthless, but other than that, is great.  

1) There is no Muslim look anymore than there is a Christian look or an Agnostic look.  Both Christianity and Islam are universalist religions that have converts among most ethnic groups.  

2) Height, weight, hair style, skin color, hair color can be useful for describing a given person (ie, the guy seen robbing bank after bank, or Fred my neighbor).  These characteristics are close to zero value for predicting other people who might in the future rob a bank or move into my neighborhood.

Black Al Qaeda bombers in London, a wide variety of Arab Al Qaeda bombers for 9-11, Asian Al Qaeda bombers in Bali, women Al Qaeda bombers in Russia, women Hamas/Al Qaeda bombers in Israel.  Yeah, we can build a real useful profile from the obvious similarities and the comforting fact that the terrorists will surely use the exact same playbook for their next attack.



Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:21pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:02:58, Charlie wrote:
Me too. No one ever needed a blow job more than George Bush.

Charlie


And you know this?

How?

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:27pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:17:15, floridian wrote:
Your analysis is totally worthless, but other than that, is great.  
1) There is no Muslim look anymore than there is a Christian look or an Agnostic look.  Both Christianity and Islam are universalist religions that have converts among most ethnic groups.  


Tell that to these butchers, Flo.......ok?

And the famililes of 9-11


http://www.danzfamily.com/pictures/pictures02/hijackers.jpg

Edit to add.....Look at the names, Flo....am I wrong?

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:43pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:27:47, Jonny wrote:
Tell that to these butchers, Flo.......ok?

And the famililes of 9-11



Sure, while you explain to the families of the Oklahoma City bombing victims why the Christians killed their loved ones.  Oh, wait,  we can distinguish between members of our group, but members of the other group all look alike. No fair, that makes my job harder.

The Oklahoma families probably already know that not all Christians approved of that terrorist bombing, and they don't see the point in profiling Christians, although they probably wouldn't object to infiltrating Christian fringe groups that spout hate and stock pile weapons, or fringe groups of any religion that preach hate and promote violence.

http://www.almc.army.mil/ALOG/issues/JulAug01/WebGraphics/Ms697p2.jpg

Johnny, the fact that you are emotional dosn't release you from the laws of gravity or those of logic.  Being King doesn't help you in this area either.  I'm assuming that being a biker, you have come to an understanding of gravity, and that you operate within those laws.  Now we just gotta get you to accept logic.  You want a quick syllogism, or you not in the mood tonight??

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 18th, 2005, 7:50pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:43:11, floridian wrote:
Sure, while you explain to the families of the Oklahoma City bombing victims why sometimes good Christians do bad things.  Oh, wait,  we can distinguish between members of our group, but members of the other group all look alike. No fair, that makes my job harder.

The Oklahoma families probably already know that not all Christians approved of that terrorist bombing, and they don't see the point in profiling Christians, although they probably wouldn't object to infiltrating Christian fringe groups that spout hate and stock pile weapons, or fringe groups of any religion that preach hate and promote violence.


I can see that your game is weak when you focus on one American when we are talking about something that could kill 30 times what 9-11 did.

When you have game let me know.....right now you got shit! ;;D

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by CHTom on Aug 18th, 2005, 9:01pm
Remember a few years ago in Boston when that white guy killed his pregnant wife in their car, while riding through a black neighborhood?  He discribed the "killer" as black and gave a general description.  The cops went nuts and began rounding up hundreds of black males and questioning them, keeping them in holding cells and then it turned out that the husband killed his wife after all....many Amerians have a propensity to want to blame blacks and other minorities for crimes and in this case civil rights were violated all over the place and Boston almost had a riot.  Racism reared its ugly head again and once we set down the road to "racial profiling" again, it won't be long before the gov't starts going after white people who don't agree with them or who are differerent...like guys with long hair and tatoos.  Be careful what you wish for, for you just might get it.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Charlie on Aug 18th, 2005, 9:12pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:21:35, Jonny wrote:
And you know this?

How?


Look at him! http://www.industreal.spb.ru/smiles/no_way.gif?SSImageQuality=Full

Maybe he'd quit snickering and grinding his teeth if he got his oil chainged

Charlie

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 18th, 2005, 11:51pm

on 08/18/05 at 19:50:42, Jonny wrote:
I can see that your game is weak when you focus on one American when we are talking about something that could kill 30 times what 9-11 did.

When you have game let me know.....right now you got shit! ;;D


The premeditated killing of 300 (or 3000) people qualifies them for the Mass Murderers Association.  More is worse quantitatively, but I can't see that there is any moral difference.  You also might consider dividing the 9-11 numbers by 19 if you want a per person breakdown, which would put McVeigh in the lead unless you want more macabre mathematical adjustments.  

Not just one American, either.  What about that fine Christian Group, the Ku Klux Klan?  Were they just good ole boys being punished for public displays of religious symbols??  Or do an estimated 4900 lynchings plus hundreds of thousands of acts of intimidation ranging from assault to arson qualify them as a Christian problem??  

Or the Army of God, who bombed numerous clinics, gay bars and the Atlanta Olympics, along with a campaign to kill and kidnapped doctors??  

No game?  Ha! You obviously wouldn't know high artisan game if it knocked you upside the head, as it did, repeatedly.


Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 19th, 2005, 8:07am

on 08/18/05 at 21:01:33, CHTom wrote:
Remember a few years ago in Boston when that white guy killed his pregnant wife in their car, while riding through a black neighborhood?  He discribed the "killer" as black and gave a general description.  The cops went nuts and began rounding up hundreds of black males and questioning them, keeping them in holding cells and then it turned out that the husband killed his wife after all....many Amerians have a propensity to want to blame blacks and other minorities for crimes and in this case civil rights were violated all over the place and Boston almost had a riot.  Racism reared its ugly head again and once we set down the road to "racial profiling" again, it won't be long before the gov't starts going after white people who don't agree with them or who are differerent...like guys with long hair and tatoos.  Be careful what you wish for, for you just might get it.

Ok I have to say this one.
The terrorist ARE MUSLIM what the guy did was wrong but you are trying to compare 2 totally different things here.

You have weak fung fu.

Good luck with future endevours and remember try to compare things that are at the least comparable.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 19th, 2005, 8:17am

on 08/18/05 at 23:51:04, floridian wrote:
Not just one American, either.  What about that fine Christian Group, the Ku Klux Klan?  Were they just good ole boys being punished for public displays of religious symbols??  Or do an estimated 4900 lynchings plus hundreds of thousands of acts of intimidation ranging from assault to arson qualify them as a Christian problem??  

Or the Army of God, who bombed numerous clinics, gay bars and the Atlanta Olympics, along with a campaign to kill and kidnapped doctors??  

No game?  Ha! You obviously wouldn't know high artisan game if it knocked you upside the head, as it did, repeatedly.

Ok we will start with the KKK southern white men are still being accused of being a member By a majority of blacks (NOT ALL) every time they do or say anything that could be even slightly considered racial. So in essance southern white males are being profiled by blacks every day. But again you have tried to place non terrorist into the terrorist catagory.

Now to the army of god morons. They are local terrorist just as greenpeace and the animal right activist killing people and destroying property to protect the rights of animals, bugs, and trees.

You too have very weak kung-fu

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by burnt-toast on Aug 19th, 2005, 8:50am
Most of these "poor profiled terrorists" are in this country illegally and well known by law enforcement agencies for their anti-American activities.  Yet somehow they remain free to continue to counduct their anti-American recruitment.  

A few nights ago I watched a report on a Mosque that is a hot-bed for recruiting activities run by a Cleric well know for being anti-American.  He is not a citizen and doesn't have a valid visa.  Things are so bad at this Mosque that non-violient Muslim's of the Mosque reported this Cleric and his followers to the FBI repeatedly, and informed them that this scumbag was recruiting for Jihad in the U.S.  It remains in operation despite years of reported activities to the FBI.  

The Muslims reporting this Cleric had to have their identies disguised due to the fear of retaliation.  Many have begun worshipping in an abandoned warehouse.

This is one example of the stupidity of providing non-citizens and illegal's the same rights as citizens.  Homeland Security and Politics do not mix and we will never be secure until "ALL GOVERNMENT" (yes it's not just George Bush) stops worrying about who they might piss off and starts acting in the interests of homeland security.

Round em' up and ship em' home if they're in the country illegally - regardless of their nation of origin, religion, race, etc.  - there is nothing wrong with fair and thorough when national security is at stake.

Tom  

     


 

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by CHTom on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:10am
You missed my point, ghost.  I was not comparing the white guy in Boston with terrorists.  My point is that in America-and much of the Western World-the actions of a few people who are not white are projected upon the rest of the people in that group.  To the best of my knowledge, there has never been profiling of white people in America based upon, for example, Timothy McVeigh, but blacks and Hispanics have been profiled ("they drive expensive cars-like only white people should be allowed to have them-they drive at night, they wear expensive clothes, etc.-ergo, they must be drug dealers and if spotted should be stopped by the highway patrol or other police agency.  That policy was stopped because it was unconstitutional and a waste of time and money (but probably still goes on unofficially).  So now we have some Muslim terrorists...but Muslim is a religious group, with white believers as well.  Should we issue national identity cards listing everyone's religion so that Muslim believers can be identified and harrassed en masse everytime some terrorist act occurs?  I don't think so; should they be forced to wear a crescent moon on their clothes, like the Nazis made the Jews wear the Star of David on their clothes to easily identify them?  Regarding your remarks about the KKK, how do you know that MOST BLACKS assume that white males who may say something offensive are members?  That is a generalization that is not true.  The black people that I know don't think that way and consider the KKK a bad joke, which they are and should the KKK try anything against black people I feel sorry for those misguided fools if they get caught-blacks can take care of themselves very well and aren't scared of some not a very nice persons going around in white sheets-those days are long over.  To me, the worst part of this profiling business is that, if allowed, it will spread to all people-those who disagree or criticize the government, those who believe in freedom of speech and the rule of law and it won't matter what color or religion you are then.  Historically, people have more to fear from their governments than whatever terrorist group is acting up because 'the government is the only body that has the right to commit violence against its people and people in other parts of the war.  Since the end of WWII, we have only sent troops to intervene or effect regime change against small, poor non-white countries which didn't do as we told them; our history in Latin America is disgraceful, supporting dicators, training their military at the "School of the Americas" on how to put down demonstrations; now we are sending "suspected terrorists" that we catch to countries like Syria and Egypt where they can be legally tortured to try to get the information that we want-is this the American way?  Torture someone enough and they will tell you what you want to hear and give you worthless information; perhaps the next thing will be to allow torture in the US on those who are considered "enemy combatants" and thus not entitled to the rights of a prisoner of war.  That makes us as bad as the people we are fighting against.  As "Pogo" said years ago in a classic cartoon:  "We have met the enemy and they are us!"  

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:22am

on 08/19/05 at 08:17:32, ghost62 wrote:
Ok we will start with the KKK southern white men are still being accused of being a member By a majority of blacks (NOT ALL) every time they do or say anything that could be even slightly considered racial. So in essance southern white males are being profiled by blacks every day. But again you have tried to place non terrorist into the terrorist catagory.


Yeah, there is a lot of animosity among many blacks towards white society, I won't deny that. I won't pretend there isn't reverse racism.

But to say that the real klan was not a non-terrorist organization defies credibility.  The whole purpose of the klan was to keep blacks terrified and compliant with the Jim Crow system.


Quote:
16th Street Baptist Church bombing
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The 16th Street Baptist Church Bombing was a terrorist incident that proved to be a turning point of the US civil rights movement of the 1960s.

The 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama was a rallying point for many of civil rights activities. On Sunday, September 15, 1963, Ku Klux Klan members Bobby Frank Cherry and Robert Edward Chambliss (aka Dynamite Bob) planted 19 sticks of dynamite in the basement of the Church. At about 10:25 AM, they exploded. Four young girls — Addie Mae Collins, Carole Robertson, Cynthia Wesley and Denise McNair — were killed in the blast, while 22 more were injured.

Chambliss was tried and found not guilty of murder, but years later it was found that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had accumulated evidence against Chambliss and three accomplices that had not been revealed to the prosecutors of the original trial, by order of FBI director J. Edgar Hoover. It ended up taking 13 years, but in 1977 Chambliss was convicted for the murders and sentenced to several terms of life imprisonment. He died in prison in 1985.


You really think that wasn't terror?

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by LeLimey on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:36am
Frank thats ignorant. He was quoting a cartoon for crying out loud. Even I've seen that cartoon.
My mother is Irish.
When she came to England in the 60's there were signs in shop windows saying "Staff wanted" or "Room to Let" and under that "No Blacks or Irish need Apply"
I was brought up as a catholic, I'd hate to be classified as a catholic. I have friends who are muslim, they are ordinary, every day people, not every muslim is a bad person, not every catholic is a good person.
I know intelligence gathering and profiling work, I know they both need to be done
but please.. don't anyone insult my intelligence by telling me that they are only profiling muslims.
Plenty of people will be in this for the money they can make out of it by selling arms to one side or the other too.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by nani on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:44am
I don't think they're just profiling Muslims though, Helen. It's all of us darkies that are looked at suspiciously. I'm so tired of having to go through "extra" airport security, like them going through my bags, when I see older white women getting on planes with knitting needles. WTF? Like someone couldn't take them from her and use them as a weapon? Where's the common sense in that?
love, your multi ethnic looking darkie friend, nani   ::)

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Frank_W on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:47am

on 08/19/05 at 09:36:45, LeLimey wrote:
Frank thats ignorant. He was quoting a cartoon for crying out loud. Even I've seen that cartoon.


Huh?  [smiley=huh.gif]

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by LeLimey on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:49am
but Nani.. I could be a nutty muslim convert with the knitting, and Lord knows I qualify on the nutty factor! (not giving up booze or bacon sarnies though so the rest of you need not worry!) ... so that just goes to show that the profiling doesn't work from that point of view!
As it happens we don't live that far from a city called Leicester which has a large Muslim community with alot of white girls who have converted to marry muslim boys.
An instant profiling problem based on that "darkie" logic isn't it?

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Frank_W on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:51am
I agree, Helen. The profiling MAY help, but it is only one tool among many. When it's misused or overused, to the neglect of other forms of intelligence and field work, then it's out of balance and made completely useless.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 19th, 2005, 9:57am
Flo you still have weak kung-fu [smiley=laugh.gif]

You are trying to compare events of 40+ years ago yes they where terrorist but in effect they are an impotent group of lobbiest at best. They are all but gone and those remaining are sitting around dreamimg of the past. We as a society have defeated there cause and rendered the all but useless. To even try to compare them to extreemist muslim terrorist is way off course at best. Like the KKK and Black panthers and other groups of that time they where defeated aggressivly and so should the terrorist of today. They then where profiled and tracked and eventually put down.
Not sure if anyone realizes but the Muslim religon is the most practiced religion in the world. It like the christian religion encompases all nations and nationalities.
I would not be offended being a Christian if the terrorist where Christian being profiled because I have done nothing wrong, It seems the loudest voices for the most part have a reason to be so loud. Others being loud out of sympathy usually are because they are either uninformed, or because they are sympathetic and want Americans DEAD. I really dont understand that logic and the way I see it if someone doesnt like America GO!
I say profile to the best of our ability and at least give us a chance to defeat them and stop them before they strike and if we inconvience some I would like to be the first to say to bad. By inconviencing a few to possably save many I say go for it. I have been stopped and searched at airposts and it made me feel good about getting on the plane. I have also stood up on a plane and stated loudly if anyone has an intention of doing anything on this plane they better get to me first because i will get to them fast. I did that setting next to 2 Arabic men both mid 20's. They applauded me and agreed with me.

ok am done for now.

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by floridian on Aug 19th, 2005, 11:00am

on 08/19/05 at 09:57:20, ghost62 wrote:
Flo you still have weak kung-fu [smiley=laugh.gif]
.


Perhaps, but I have excellent to-fu.  :-*

As I said earlier, I have no problem investigating people of any religion that espouse hate and violence, arresting them if they are engaged in a conspiracy, deporting them if they are in violation of their immigration status. This is very different from profiling, pulling people off the street and searching them because of their physical appearance, delaying a plane because ignorant hysterical people feel 'uncomfortable' about their fellow passengers, etc.

Many comments on this thread pointed to superficial physical similarities between the 9-11 cell; other comments talked about profiling people who 'looked Muslim' as if there were such a thing. I stand by my opinions that these similarities have near zero value in trying to catch the next terrorists.

The comments on the Klan were posted in response to the idea that there were only Muslim terrorists or that being a Muslim was grounds for profiling, and that terrorism was something new to the US.  The Klan wasn't smashed; it burned out. Some cells were infiltrated and popped by the government, other cells were protected by the government.

The biggest problem with profiling based on race is that it is carried out by Barney Fife who can't tell the difference between an Arab and Hispanic, and doesn't know that most Muslims are not Arab. Specific intelligence is worth hundreds of times more - we need infiltrators, wiretaps, and other sources of info, not race based random stops. At the airports, search everyone (If you start trusting blue haired granny's, you've opened a weakeness).  It's too easy for someone to plant something in someone elses possessions.


Title: Re: We knew...
Post by ghost62 on Aug 19th, 2005, 11:30am
AAAHHH your kung-fu is strong after all.

Got to agree with part search all, but still need to randomly check for proper coverage. And in doing so if they find expired visa's and illeagal's then even better. Deportation is always good. If someone is legal and stopped then they will have been inconvienced but in the end no problem. just still not able to understand why we as a population cant step up and help too. I mean if you suspect someone of being illegal of of some type of criminal activity, report them to the authorities. This is not just a war waged against our military it is against the people in general. We cannot let our guard down until it is over ...

Title: Re: We knew...
Post by TheMasterBaker on Aug 19th, 2005, 11:46am
Clusterheads may have diseased brains but they still work better than the "brains" that have been in charge of protecting me and mine on a National level, which the lack of both past and present was the topic of this thread to start with.....the Feds are letting us down when it comes to matters of National and International security and the solutions seem to be elusive at best.....and maybe impossible...

The Founding Fathers were indeed wise men....

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."

Thomas Jefferson

Keep your powder dry........

TMB

http://www.virtuallandmedia.com/flags1-1/usa/usa.gif



Title: Re: We knew...
Post by Jonny on Aug 19th, 2005, 2:19pm

on 08/19/05 at 11:00:00, floridian wrote:
Perhaps, but I have excellent to-fu.  :-*


Now thats funny....LMMFAO!!!! ;;D



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