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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> More trouble in London
        
(Message started by: LeLimey on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 6:13am)

Title: More trouble in London
Post by LeLimey on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 6:13am

An Asian man has just been shot dead after a chase by police in Stockwell, South London. He was wearing a big heavy coat and tried to elude police by jumping onto a train so they shot him dead.
No more details yet.
Armed police have just surrounded a Mosque in East London too.
I'll keep you updated as soon as I hear more.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Topical on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 7:05am

It's like a freaking movie but it's real. Jeez!

Edit: They are saying now that they followed the person from his house on a tip.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Svenn on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 8:13am

You and your family promise us to be careful Helen.

This is insane and a nightmare for all of us

Svenn

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Frank_W on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 9:27am

WE ARE WITH YOU!!!!

http://www.werenotafraid.com/images/128/Caleb_USA.jpg

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 9:41am

The actions of these terrorists will eventually result in a genocide on their own people.

Think about it. If terrorist attacks keep happening and getting pinned on or claimed by the same group of people every time, one government or another will decide that they've had enough and go after that group of people.

Innocent members of their group will die as a result of their actions.

What a bunch of morons.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by vig on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 10:28am

I think the moderate Islamists need to distance themselves from the extremists or the big red target will begin to cover them too.

right now, one of the Arab nations is sheltering Osama and we're not going after them because they are a 'sovereign nation'. That won't hold up much longer if this continues.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/20/goss.bin.laden/index.html

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 10:45am

Its pretty freakin scary, though, that after security has been stepped up as far as it has, the only reason there werent lots of deaths and destruction is cause the detonators malfunctioned. Had the detonators worked properly, all the extra security since 9/11, and all the extra security immediately following the bombing 2 weeks ago would not have saved 1 life.
How do you fight an enemy among us?
BMonee

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by sandie99 on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 12:42pm

That was shocking news! I just talked about it with mum. Think about it: what if the guy was innocent... :o

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Frank_W on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 12:50pm

Innocent? The only way he could be innocent, is if he were thoroughly insane.

He obviously did something to end up with three armed, undercover police tracking him. Then, wearing a coat in the middle of summer, ignoring commands to halt, leaping over the barrier and running into the subway, less than two weeks after the subway was bombed, and the day after another attempt was made? This fellow deserved what he got. Period.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by LeLimey on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:08pm

He was not innocent. It has been confirmed they were chasing him in connection with yesterdays incidents.

Added to which think of it like this. Either
A) You are sat in a hot tube train in the middle of July when a Moslem male bundled up in a heavy padded winter jacket comes tearing on chased by five armed police officers. The doors close, the train moves off and you are stuck with him in a dark tunnel. The train quite obviously is stopped in that tunnel by the police and mr big coat undoes his coat... you tell me you would carry on quietly reading Harry Potter 'cos I wouldn't!

B) You ARE that man, moslem appearance wearing a huge heavy coat in the middle of July. The Police stop you do you a) stop and answer their questions? b) run like hell? I know what I'd do. The Police had been chasing him for quite a while and were looking for him specifically and others. Don't forget they have video footage from every tube station in London. They know who their suspects are.

I will admit I did n't like it when I heard they had stopped and shot him while he was down BUT.. we only have eye witness reports and I know how I would react if I just saw someone shot. I'd be hysterical. I just saw a gun for the first time ever in Dallas and that is how most Brits are.
I don't know that he wasn't a walking bomb with a trigger in his hand but I'll tell you now.... if I'd been there THAT is what I would have been thinking

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by sandie99 on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:17pm

still, shooting anyone on the head... [smiley=nono.gif]

I do hope that there won't be a chain of violence from now on.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Iceman on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:22pm

The policeman who shot him probably asked himself:

"What's worse, knowing I have shot dead ONE potentially innocent man, OR, paused and allowed a terrorist to kill 1,2,3,4......innocent people?"

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Frank_W on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:24pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:17:55, sandie99 wrote:

still, shooting anyone on the head... [smiley=nono.gif]

I do hope that there won't be a chain of violence from now on.

Kill one person, or allow that one person to kill another 53 people? Pretty easy choice, if you ask me. Chain of violence? Please... The fucking terrorists are the ones perpetrating it. It will stop when they stop. Period. If that means killing every damn one of them by shooting each one in the face, I have just one question: Where can I buy that much ammo?

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by sandie99 on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:39pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:24:39, Frank_W wrote:

let me get it streight... instead of letting them play God we want to play God...?
Anyways, I do hope that nothing happends in Rome in August! Mum is freaking out and talking about changing the destination.... I told her that if something happends, then it happends.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Frank_W on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:41pm

You aren't understanding, Sandie: They had him on VIDEOTAPE as one of the bombers from yesterday! This isn't an innocent man, and yet, this man would have gladly killed as many innocent people as he could. You have a twisted sense of justice if you can make excuses for terrorists and condemn the police for doing their jobs.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by nani on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:47pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:41:14, Frank_W wrote:

You have a twisted sense of justice if you can make excuses for terrorists and condemn the police for doing their jobs.

I really don't see how placing equal value on all life is making excuses for terrorists. I haven't seen anyone condemning the police, either. I've always said that the police go to war everyday, that is truer than ever in these scary (yes, I said it again) times.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by seasonalboomer on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:50pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:39:07, sandie99 wrote:

i'm against anyone playing god. this is a war of humans. just as sure as the changes in the 19th Century that saw generals line soldiers up in lines for slaughter and march towards each other lock step, shooting, finally gave way to modern trench and then guerilla warfare, this is the new war battlefield of the future. Maybe its time we all became aware of what is at stake here. The other side is playing for all the marbles and ifwe don't treat it as such we may as well show up for the gunfight with slingshots.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:51pm

I don't consider terrorists a normal form of life. In my opinion, they are a lower life form wild animals that deserve no rights or respect.

These bastards would kill every single person on this message board AND their families right now if they could figure out a way to do it.

Catch them, gather them together and execute all of them as a group.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Filbert on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:52pm

Just beat me to it with that post Frank. I can only say that I have to agree with you 100%. I was in London with schoolkids two weeks ago and several of them were in tears waiting to find out if those with mums and dads working in the central area of London were safe. I spoke to one dad on the phone who had been in his work vehicle sitting outside the entrance to one of the bombed tube stations and he could hardly speak with the shock.
In my book if you live by the sword then you can expect to die by the sword!!

Fil.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by sandie99 on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:54pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:41:14, Frank_W wrote:

I haven't done that. Attempt to kill others is wrong. Terrorism is wrong. But what I do think is that nobody should try to play God. Recall your Bible? I do recall my 10 comandments. :) I was raised to believe that we're all equals.
Then again, I've lived my whole life in a country in which there's no death penalty.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 1:56pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:54:16, sandie99 wrote:

Recall your Bible?

So you don't think that God may have mortals here on Earth doing his work for him?
Reading the Bible, I also see evidence of the Death Penalty. Much more extreme than now.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by nani on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 2:01pm

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." [Matthew 6:14-15 NIV]

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by LeLimey on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 2:01pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:54:16, sandie99 wrote:

Then again, I've lived my whole life in a country in which there's no death penalty.

Ditto. So have I, we do have a difference though. Your police openly carry guns and mine does not.
Go back to the scenario's I posted and tell me you wouldn't have shit yourself being on a tube in a dark tunnel with that man.
Maybe I'm a bad person.. I don't much care. I never thought I'd say this but times change you. If I had been on that tube platform and a guy in a big padded coat pursued by coppers with guns had been running about with fuck knows what under it I'd have been YELLING at them to bring him down.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 2:03pm

on 07/22/05 at 14:01:30, nani wrote:

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." [Matthew 6:14-15 NIV]

I'll forgive people who have done me wrong but, If I think for a second that my life of my families is at risk, there's going to be a lot of trouble going on.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by seasonalboomer on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 2:04pm

on 07/22/05 at 14:01:53, LeLimey wrote:

If I had been on that tube platform and a guy in a big padded coat pursued by coppers with guns had been running about with fuck knows what under it I'd have been YELLING at them to bring him down.

I believe I would have yelled, "shoot that m*th*rf**k*r".

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Frank_W on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 2:05pm

Sandie, this isn't about the death penalty or playing God. This isn't a sliding scale of morality. This is about shooting a rabid dog in order to save scores of innocent people. Period.

You have your rose-coloured view of the world and that's fine. The police deal in reality, and I support their decision today. You apparently don't, so we must simply agree to disagree.

Be well,
-Frank

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Gator on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 2:35pm

From the description of the incident, the man who was shot was directly linked to the terrorist investigation, was in a subway, was dressed and acting suspisciously, was carrying a backpack, ran from police and failed to stop when ordered to do so. Had he not been shot, he may have been able to set off any potential explosives he may have been carrying. Considering the circumstances, that's probable cause to get his ticket punched.

I can tell you that unless the policemen that did the shooting were complete psychopaths they are very shook up about having to pull the trigger. Most policemen never even pull their weapons, let alone shoot at someone. Even when the shooting was fully justified, as in a him or me situation, many officers go through severe depression and some commit suicide. On top of that, there will be a full review of the shooting that could affect whether the officers continue to have a job or even go to jail.

As far as being 100% safe - we never have been and never will be. All the security in the world will not keep a person with the desire to kill and the will to die in the process from walking out into a crowd with a bomb strapped to his chest and pushing the button. You have to choose to cringe in fear or go about your life. Personally, I choose to live. I flew within days of 9/11 and I'll ride the subway next time the situation calls for it.

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Kevin_M on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 3:10pm

on 07/22/05 at 13:17:55, sandie99 wrote:

still, shooting anyone on the head...

Under that coat he may have been wearing several bullet-proof vests to protect whatever mission he was attempting to accomplish. If there was some way to have possibly captured and questioned him, those chances were slim to none. Under the circumstances of what has happened recently, evidence, and his reaction to authority... head shot. Shooting to wound, if there is such a command, is not even an option.

*good post Gator.
you also made me stop and think that if I was an officer who may have only wounded him when I had a more lethal opportunity, and he was then able to inflict whatever damage he may have done, how would I live with myself then.

Kevin M

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Charlie on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 9:32pm

Fear. It's fear by us and the bad guys. It's what lets something like this happen.

I know that London usually uses special squads when firearms are needed. It works there. Sort of a London SWAT team, I guess. Here, too many bad guys are very well-armed. It's a crying shame that it has come to this but it's inevitable when dealing with young men who are scared to death for their own lives and the citizenry.

Weren't they also looking into his being a suicide bomber? No wonder they are edgy.

On the death penalty. I've grown not to like it. Fortunately, there hasn't been an execution in New York State since about 1964 or so. Our murder rate compares very well. The violent crime rate has been dropping in the U. S. ever since 1970. Reporting that doesn't sell boner pills though.

Keep after them Helen. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/tommygun.gif

Charlie

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Carl_D on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 9:37pm

Will it ever end?

Keping you Londoners in prayer. Glad you all made it home safe yesterday Helen.

Peace,
Carl D

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Opus on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 10:36pm

on 07/22/05 at 10:45:16, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:

I cannot find anything about it, but it seems the detonators worked fine, and the explosives were bad. I wouldn't be surprised if someone sold them fake explosives, maybe even to save lives. I doubt there is a good way to test explosives in such a small country.

Opus/Paul

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by cootie on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 10:52pm

We had alot of nervous TURBON-ITTES in this small town after 911.......it's a small college town but there were so many of them running small convenient stores and walking around town and in stores......I was afraid there'd be some out of control violence break out in this town cuz of everyone bein trigger happy. Why didn't 'whistles blow and signs flash' when that one young kid that did some of the last big bombings just get back from TURBON TOWN for some sort of schooling or religious stuff over there. Why do we let that happen and not get suspicious ??? Really sorry you guys are being put thru such hell......it has got to be TERRIFYING !!!!! Terrorists are like fire ants......born to fight and born to consume........there programmed to be that way like insects. We need a Turbon Bomb Pam

Please STAY SAFE !!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by Charlie on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 11:43pm

I read today the almost all these terrorists are "westernized" muslims, lots of them homegrown. It's not so much religious fanatacism as it is iffy weak, pliable types turned into killers for a cause about which they know little.

It's time that our Muslims admit that there is a death cult in their midst. They need to help, not shake their heads and in the long run it will be better for them. This is trying the patience of that famous British tolerance.

Charlie

Title: Re: More trouble in London
Post by AussieBrian on Jul 22^nd, 2005, 11:46pm

I'm with Gator on this.

A Board of Inquiry took 6 months to decide that they couldn't decide whether or not I'd made a correct decision.

I'd had 1 second to make that decision.