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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> Things that make you say....Hmmmm
        
(Message started by: M.R. on Jun 24th, 2005, 3:36pm)
Title: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by M.R. on Jun 24th, 2005, 3:36pm
Don't know if this is true or not.

If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in
> the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, that gives a
> firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000. The rate in Washington D.C. is
> 80.6 per 100,000. That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot
> and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest
> gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.
>
> Conclusion:  We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.

Hmmmmmm

Mike
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Jun 24th, 2005, 3:54pm

on 06/24/05 at 15:36:31, M.R. wrote:
Don't know if this is true or not.

If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in
> the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, that gives a
> firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000. The rate in Washington D.C. is
> 80.6 per 100,000. That means that you are 25% more likely to be shot
> and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest
> gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.
>
> Conclusion:  We should immediately pull out of Washington, D.C.

Hmmmmmm

Mike


I heard that same thing on a radio news cast.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by maffumatt on Jun 24th, 2005, 4:09pm
Shhhh.....

Thats different didn't you know that? If that gets out some people will lose their political brownie points....some facts are just to straight forward for some to comprehend.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Charlie on Jun 24th, 2005, 9:38pm
First, bear in mind that I am not anti gun....

None of these comparisons alter the number of deaths.

Charlie
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 24th, 2005, 11:08pm

on 06/24/05 at 21:38:11, Charlie wrote:
First, bear in mind that I am not anti gun....

None of these comparisons alter the number of deaths.

Charlie


I appreciate the fact that you are not anti-gun.

While it's politically correct to report the terrors of gun violence, why don't we receive equal coverage for the far greater numbers of murders committed with knives, baseball bats, automobiles, etc.?

As with any potential tool for killing someone you cannot alter the number of deaths unless you can stop idiots from using them.

That's what I have guns for - and why the police that would take too long to get here to save my family do as well.    


Tom  
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Jimmy_B on Jun 25th, 2005, 8:14am
As our leader might say..."that's some fuzzy math."  :D

It's comparing only military personnel (in Iraq) with an entire populace (D.C.) If you want to make it an equal comparison you either gotta include the entire populace of Iraq with D.C. or only the firearm death rate of the Washington D.C. Police Force with the military personnel in Iraq.

Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by don on Jun 25th, 2005, 12:14pm
The US has one weapon of mass destruction.

He lives in the White House.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 25th, 2005, 2:58pm

on 06/24/05 at 23:08:54, burnt-toast wrote:
I appreciate the fact that you are not anti-gun.

While it's politically correct to report the terrors of gun violence, why don't we receive equal coverage for the far greater numbers of murders committed with knives, baseball bats, automobiles, etc.?

As with any potential tool for killing someone you cannot alter the number of deaths unless you can stop idiots from using them.

That's what I have guns for - and why the police that would take too long to get here to save my family do as well.    


Tom  



Now...don't take this as my opinion on guns...I'm not going down that road again, but...  I'd guess it's because there are far more gun accidents in this day and age than there are knives and baseball bats!

As far as gun violence...if you're referring to gun deaths related to an incident where someone intended to shoot someone and that's what happened, then that's a different story.  The accidental ones are talked about in the news quite frequently, too...at least in the cities!  Car accidents are also talked about a lot.....don't hear about intential murder by automobile quite *as* often as the accidental car crashes! ;)

Lizzie :)
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by maffumatt on Jun 25th, 2005, 4:53pm
next thing you know we will be like England, they are trying to take knives away now that they got everyones guns. There was a guy murdered here not to long ago, a man dropped a cinder block on his head as he left a building. Look at the death rate in prisons, if you want to kill, you will figure out a way, at least the criminals will. Firearm deaths make the front page news when criminals do it, but when someone kills an intruder with a gun its one sentence on page nine.




The US has one weapon of mass destruction.

He lives in the White House.

*good thing for other countries to know, at least it makes them think before they act* ask  gaddafi , at least one country wised up.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 25th, 2005, 6:43pm

on 06/25/05 at 14:58:10, Lizzie2 wrote:
As far as gun violence...if you're referring to gun deaths related to an incident where someone intended to shoot someone and that's what happened, then that's a different story.  The accidental ones are talked about in the news quite frequently, too...at least in the cities!  Car accidents are also talked about a lot.....don't hear about intential murder by automobile quite *as* often as the accidental car crashes! ;)

Lizzie :)


Lizzie, The following is from house hearing regarding road rage incidents.  DUI is also considered homocide but I didn't include information for it.
WASHINGTON--Reversing a long decline, traffic deaths on the nation's roadways have now increased four years in a row, and federal highway officials Thursday attributed much of the carnage to "road rage."
Testifying before a House transportation subcommittee, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration officials estimated that two-thirds of the 42,000 highway deaths last year were related to aggressive driving, which appears to have joined drunk driving as a perilous trait of American culture.
Researchers define aggressive driving by certain types of behavior, such as speeding, illegal lane changes and running red lights. "Road rage" involves that sort of aggressive driving taken to an extreme.
A study by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety that sought to quantify road rage looked at 10,000 aggressive driving accidents reported around the nation since 1990. The study indicated that in 35% of the cases, a vehicle was used directly as a weapon. Men between the ages of 18 and 26 were the drivers most likely to be involved in aggressive driving accidents, the study indicated.

Statistics from the National Safety Council pertaining to accidential death rates may surprise you.

Tom  
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Charlie on Jun 25th, 2005, 10:45pm

Quote:
While it's politically correct to report the terrors of gun violence, why don't we receive equal coverage for the far greater numbers of murders committed with knives, baseball bats, automobiles, etc.?  


You know, this comes up all the time....relative deaths by guns and everything else. It's wacked. Guns are dangerous and frankly, I'd be really happy if they were scarce. At least almost all NRA members understand the things.  

That there are "favorable" statistics on the number of deaths by baseball bats, knives, cars, etc. has zero effect on the number of deaths. It's ridiculous.

Charllie
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 26th, 2005, 12:03pm

on 06/25/05 at 22:45:33, Charlie wrote:
You know, this comes up all the time....relative deaths by guns and everything else. It's wacked. Guns are dangerous and frankly, I'd be really happy if they were scarce. At least almost all NRA members understand the things.  

That there are "favorable" statistics on the number of deaths by baseball bats, knives, cars, etc. has zero effect on the number of deaths. It's ridiculous.

Charllie


You clearly miss the point.

If someone with bad intentions and loose screws decides they want to kill someone they will do it with whatever dangerous instrument they can get their hands on.  Period.  

If anyone handles any tool without knowing how to properly use it, it's dangerous.  Period.

It just so happens that statistically you are less likely to be murdered by a legally licensed gun owner than a licensed driver.  Randomly educating/banning drivers would have far more postitive impact on death rates than banning guns.  

AND YES THERE ALREADY IS LICENSING AND REGISTRATION, During background checks I always refuse to provide my SS# because it's optional and the gun dealers always immediately gets it from the government database used to perform the checks.

And accidents - Statistally everyone and this includes children are less likely to be hurt in a gun accident than any of the following even when each is taken seperatey.

Auto accident
Industrial Accident
Fall
Poisoning
Electricution
Pedestrian Accident
Drowning
Fires/burns
Suffocation

ANTI-GUN folks pry at our hearts with statements like "8 children ages 0 to 15 are killed in gun accidents each day".  Unfortuantely it's a significant stretch from the National Safety Council's independent data of .2.  Banning children from swimming and/or riding in cars would have a significantly greater positive impact on childrens lives than would banning guns.  

I raised two wonderful children with loaded and unlocked guns in my house (gasp!).  From their earliest years they were informed of the locations of these guns (gasp!, gasp!).  From their earliest years they were drilled on how to safely handle and use these guns (gasp!, gasp!, gasp!).  But from their earliest years they respected the dangers and power, knew they were not toys, and knew how to use them to defend themselves if necessary.        
 
I can employ your "Guns are dangerous" mentality to hammers, charcoal grills, ladders, rope, pencils, saws, trees, hair dryers, plastic bags, electrical outlets, extension cords, lawn mowers, scissors etc., etc., etc., and make a much stronger case.    

It's all political hoopla and hype designed to eliminate another right and further infringe upon our freedoms in this country.  Don't automatically fear something you simply do not understand.

Tom        

   
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Jun 26th, 2005, 12:13pm

on 06/26/05 at 12:03:29, burnt-toast wrote:
It's all political hoopla and hype designed to eliminate another right and further infringe upon our freedoms in this country.  Don't automatically fear something you simply do not understand.


Agreed!!!
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by floridian on Jun 26th, 2005, 12:25pm
There are more U.S. casualties in Iraq  from bombs (IEDs) and vehicle crashes (often caused by bombs) than from gun shots.  

Some of the muckety-mucks have gotten creative, and when a bomb blows up and causes an armored car to crash, those deaths and injuries aren't listed as a battle casualties - they are 'traffic accidents.'  

As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Charlie on Jun 26th, 2005, 2:07pm

Quote:
Don't automatically fear something you simply do not understand.

I grew up in a house full of guns. They were in hallway cabinets and in the livingroom.  My grandmother had a .32 in her drawer and mom was a skeet shooter. I know about them, most people shouldn't have the things is all.

In my case, I should probably get rid of what I have. Not a good thing for epileptics.

Charlie
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 27th, 2005, 2:13am

on 06/26/05 at 14:07:52, Charlie wrote:
I know about them, most people shouldn't have the things is all.


And ya said ya wasn't Anti-Gun.  ::).  I don't take it personally, everyones entitled to their beliefs.

That's what makes this Nation great.  As long as you live within the law and don't harm others you can live by your beliefs without fear of persecution.

So why is it that while I don't force others to own guns  others feel perfectly within their rights to force me to stop legally owning guns?  

Maybe they've established competing definitions for the words Freedom and rights.  Is it possible that there is a second Constitution that we haven't been told about yet?  Just some things to think about.      

Tom        
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by giffy76 on Jun 27th, 2005, 9:50am
I probably should be anti-gun, but there's no chance in hell of that.
I was 6 my brother was 8, he found my dads .22 pistol pulled the hammer back and shot me in the knee it bounced around the room a few times and hit me again in the stomach.
My dad never taught us gun safety, we figured it out on our own, my kids know gun safety and I keep them locked up, "the guns not the kids" My son is 11 and has been skeet shooting with me since 9.
Anti-gun = bad. Gun safety = good. Shooting your little brother = learning the hard way
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by ghost62 on Jun 27th, 2005, 10:41am
Things that make you say....Hmmmm




Jelly donuts

;;D  ;;D  ;;D


Oh wait I thought you sd Mmmmmmm
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 27th, 2005, 12:13pm

on 06/27/05 at 09:50:13, giffy76 wrote:
My dad never taught us gun safety, we figured it out on our own, my kids know gun safety and I keep them locked up, "the guns not the kids" My son is 11 and has been skeet shooting with me since 9.
Anti-gun = bad. Gun safety = good. Shooting your little brother = learning the hard way


Proper instruction/training and familiarity are absolutely necessary.  My children were raised with loaded/unlocked guns in the house. (Not much good if ya gotta go find the key/shells & unlock/load em while an intruder chases ya around the house).  

I drill them on gun safety - let them know where they are - teach them how to use them - and graphically demonstrate their power.  Stashed guns were never intriguing mysteries to them.  Having my own range helped.  

I do not have a problem with someone being anti-gun - my wife is fairly opposed to guns and won't  touch them.  I have a problem with people that want to force me to be anti-gun to suite their agenda.


Oh, and the jelly donuts thing - I am also Pro-Jelly Donut.[b][/b]


Tom
 

Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jun 27th, 2005, 2:06pm
I have a problem with anyone who tries pushing ANY agenda on me.

I am probably one of the most politically incorrect people on Earth and I refuse to change my ways because some whiny cry baby thinks that I or my family would be better off if we just did stuff their way.

Wanna take my gun from me? It would be wise to bring one of your own then because you'll have to fight me for it.   [smiley=bigguns.gif]

If you knock on my door pushing any other P.C. agenda in my face, you're wasting your time too.


Edited to add.... I'm pro any donut.  ;;D
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by TomM on Jun 27th, 2005, 2:19pm
Pro doughnut! Pro doughnut!

Pro choice. Pro gun safety. Pro catholic. Pro A/C. Pro anti P/C. Pro blue cars. Pro birth control. Pro-fessional IT Geek. Pro fish[ing]. Pro power boats. Pro chocolate. Pro women. Pro steaks on the barbie. Pro B&W photography. Pro roses. pro green grass. Pro Anti-gas [flatulance].

TomM  8)
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jun 27th, 2005, 2:34pm
Tom,

I had a list of all of my anti's in my last post but deleted them before I posted it. I would have offended about 80% of the people here if I would have left it in. ;;D

But...

I belive in God!!!! (Yes... I capitalized the word God. That's the way it should be.)
I support our president AND our troops!!!
I'm straight and I'm proud!!!
Welfare sucks!!!!!
I married someone of the opposite sex!!!
Jesse Jackson is the most powerful racist in exsitance!!!
I didn't evolve!!! I was created!!!!
I own a gun!!!! (Scary. Isn't it?)
I spank my child if she mis-behaves!!!!
I smoke cigarettes!!!
Affirmative action is legalized racism!!!!
I drive an SUV that burns a lot of gas!!!
I like Microsoft AND Linux!!!!
????????
I'll think of more later.

Anyone doesn't like my dislikes????  http://members.iinet.net.au/~vroncol/Smiley_gifs/bumwiggle.gif
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by TomM on Jun 27th, 2005, 5:23pm
EEB--
Could have sworn I saw this on your car:  ;;D
http://team-bar.com/Image_files/othercar.JPG
TomM
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 28th, 2005, 8:11am

on 06/27/05 at 14:34:52, ExplodingEyeBall wrote:
Tom,

I had a list of all of my anti's in my last post but deleted them before I posted it. I would have offended about 80% of the people here if I would have left it in. ;;D

Anyone doesn't like my dislikes????  http://members.iinet.net.au/~vroncol/Smiley_gifs/bumwiggle.gif


I think everyone has a list the would offend around 80% of the population.    

Things stat to fall apart when folks insist that their beliefs are so superior that everyone else has to be forced to conform to them.  

Sharing them is great - gives folks different perspectives to consider but legislating other beliefs out of existance because you don't agree does not a make for a very free society.

We've always had common sense based laws to restrict how far someone could legally take their beliefs.  Obeying these laws/not harming others should be enough - but some folks confuse "civilized society" with "socialistic utopia" where everyone is forced to march to the same drummer.

Tom          
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by TomM on Jun 28th, 2005, 8:19am
For the record, my post was a joke. If you missed the begining "Pro Doughnut then you should read the last "Pro Anti-Gas [flatulance]".
Geez, check your egos @ the mouse pad.
TomM 8)
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 28th, 2005, 8:31am
TomM - I recognized your post as a joke.  

The clusters beat the ego out of me over the last 10 years.  My problem is more of a can't get off the soap-box thing.  No personal message to you intended. 8)

Tom
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by TomM on Jun 28th, 2005, 9:10am

on 06/28/05 at 08:31:30, burnt-toast wrote:
TomM - I recognized your post as a joke.  

The clusters beat the ego out of me over the last 10 years.  My problem is more of a can't get off the soap-box thing.  No personal message to you intended. 8)

Tom


Tom--that's cool--that we're cool--not that you got your ego beat out of you--you know what I mean.
To help you jump from the soapbox, think of this. Remember the Seinfeld episode "Serenity now!"? That helps me along with breathing deep. Seriously. This and remembering what I do is not life and death no matter how much the attorney yells and screams unlike what I did while serving in the US Coast Guard. THAT was life or death.
We're cool.
TomM
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by vietvet2tours on Jun 28th, 2005, 11:55am

on 06/27/05 at 14:34:52, ExplodingEyeBall wrote:
Tom,

I had a list of all of my anti's in my last post but deleted them before I posted it. I would have offended about 80% of the people here if I would have left it in. ;;D

But...

I belive in God!!!! (Yes... I capitalized the word God. That's the way it should be.)
I support our president AND our troops!!!
I'm straight and I'm proud!!!
Welfare sucks!!!!!
I married someone of the opposite sex!!!
Jesse Jackson is the most powerful racist in exsitance!!!
I didn't evolve!!! I was created!!!!
I own a gun!!!! (Scary. Isn't it?)
I spank my child if she mis-behaves!!!!
I smoke cigarettes!!!
Affirmative action is legalized racism!!!!
I drive an SUV that burns a lot of gas!!!
I like Microsoft AND Linux!!!!
????????
I'll think of more later.

Anyone doesn't like my dislikes????  http://members.iinet.net.au/~vroncol/Smiley_gifs/bumwiggle.gif
Don't be beatin on yer kid mr. tuff guy and notice I didn't capitalize mr.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jun 28th, 2005, 4:52pm

on 06/28/05 at 11:55:21, vietvet2tours wrote:
Don't be beatin on yer kid mr. tuff guy and notice I didn't capitalize mr.



Beating and spanking are as different as night and day.

If anybody ever thought that I would beat my daughter, they obviousely don't know me at all.

And... I am now anti capitalization.

pat
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by vietvet2tours on Jun 28th, 2005, 6:47pm
Learned a long time ago that the hand must never deliver pain, just pleasure. Works for kids as well as critters.                                                                                                                        Potter
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Jun 28th, 2005, 7:01pm
Chill you two.....nobody here beats their kids....well, I dont know about that Don guy, watch him! ;;D
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by vietvet2tours on Jun 29th, 2005, 5:29pm

on 06/28/05 at 16:52:52, ExplodingEyeBall wrote:
Beating and spanking are as different as night and day.



pat

I apologize I didn't realize you were only hittin a little bit.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Jun 29th, 2005, 6:49pm
Since it has been brought up....how would you deal with this?

http://www.m90.org/view_image.php?image_id=6208

looks to me that time out didnt work and they let this kid get WAY out of control.

But thats just my opinion.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Sean_C on Jun 29th, 2005, 7:22pm
There's a difference between disipline and beating. As for the video, that boys arse would be mighty red, he'd learn sooner or later that if he puts a finger or spits on mom, dad will be home and he'll pay the price. There's more than meets the eye there, that boy has other issues I think. Medication might be a good place to start, its a little late for the spanking maybe, he's what 8 there?

JMHO, and have I disiplined my son, yes once, did he understand, absolutely definately ;)

Sean................................
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Jonny on Jun 29th, 2005, 7:35pm

on 06/29/05 at 19:22:15, Sean_C wrote:
There's a difference between disipline and beating.


Bingo!!, there is...and like you said there is more to this video.

Could be a mental prob just as well could be that these parents let that kid walk all over them all his 8 years.

My kid never did that shit and I could count on one hand how many times I gave a good spankin.

To me its the parenting skills....go figure, I was Dad at 16 yrs old.....LOL ;;D
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by forgetfulnot on Jun 29th, 2005, 8:02pm

on 06/26/05 at 14:07:52, Charlie wrote:
I grew up in a house full of guns. They were in hallway cabinets and in the livingroom.  My grandmother had a .32 in her drawer and mom was a skeet shooter. I know about them, most people shouldn't have the things is all.

In my case, I should probably get rid of what I have. Not a good thing for epileptics.

Charlie


Charlie, you crack me up, thanks for the laugh.


Lee
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by burnt-toast on Jun 30th, 2005, 6:53am

on 06/29/05 at 19:22:15, Sean_C wrote:
There's a difference between disipline and beating. As for the video, that boys arse would be mighty red, he'd learn sooner or later that if he puts a finger or spits on mom, dad will be home and he'll pay the price. There's more than meets the eye there, that boy has other issues I think. Medication might be a good place to start, its a little late for the spanking maybe, he's what 8 there?

JMHO, and have I disiplined my son, yes once, did he understand, absolutely definately ;)

Sean................................


With a good swat or two both of my children were "diciplined" when they earned it.  Children don't reason well and in certain situations an eye opener  establishes lines that can't be crossed.  Actions have consequences and proper disipline, rewards and consistency help children establish boundaries.

By age 7 or 8 just a threat would to reset my childrens  logic boards.  They're in their late teens now and I can trust the decisions they make when I'm not around.  (well at least 90% of the time - but now I can reason with them to squeeze the last few %'s into em')

Tom          
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by giffy76 on Jun 30th, 2005, 7:31am
I too spank my kids. Have I spanked them in the last 3 yrs.? No, I don't need to because they know I will.

I'm 28 and just last week my momma smacked me right in the mouth becuase I swore at my brother at the dinner table, and it was at my house. Damn momma! I can swear at my table if I want! LOL

Time outs are for games. Rearing children is not a game.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Bethany1 on Jun 30th, 2005, 7:43am
I think todays kids don't understand consequences. I'm not saying ALL kids.... I don't even have kids (yet) give me 6 more months and maybe I will have a different opinion about it. The respect factor has gone out the window, its not the kids fault, its the parents and society. Just the other day my nephew threw a whole glass of soda at my husband and then kicked him in the you know where. My brother didn't do anything. If that was my child I would have flipped out.... As a child, I would have never disrespected an adult, my parents would have killed me.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by TomM on Jun 30th, 2005, 8:34am

on 06/30/05 at 07:43:39, Bethany1 wrote:
I think todays kids don't understand consequences. I'm not saying ALL kids.... I don't even have kids (yet) give me 6 more months and maybe I will have a different opinion about it. The respect factor has gone out the window, its not the kids fault, its the parents and society. Just the other day my nephew threw a whole glass of soda at my husband and then kicked him in the you know where. My brother didn't do anything. If that was my child I would have flipped out.... As a child, I would have never disrespected an adult, my parents would have killed me.

Beth--print this out, post it in your kitchen, and re-read once a week after you become a parent. It will help to remind you to keep parenting in perspective.
TomM
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on Jun 30th, 2005, 3:39pm

on 06/28/05 at 18:47:02, vietvet2tours wrote:
the hand must never deliver pain, just pleasure.



on 06/28/05 at 18:47:02, vietvet2tours wrote:
Kill em all let God sort em out


Speaking of things that make you say Hmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by Frank_W on Jun 30th, 2005, 4:16pm
Discipline and abuse are two entirely, diametrically opposed concepts.

Also, different children have different personalities and termperaments: When I was a kid, my dad could yell, scream, and beat my ass, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. I would still go ahead and do whatever I was going to do.

With my younger brother, all my dad had to do was raise his voice or give him "The Look," and my brother would instantly modify his behavior. (or start crying) LOL

My daughter gets a single swat on the backside, every so often. She always knows exactly why she's getting it, and we adhere to the "strike 3, you're out," rule: If I tell her to do something and she ignores me, I will tell her again, in a louder, sterner tone and warn her that she needs to do what I've told her to do, or else she's going to get a spanking. If, after the third time I've told her, she still doesn't do what I've told her to do, then she gets a swat.

It's parents' job to lay down the limits. It's kids' job to push those limits. If they push the limits and find that there are no repercussions for their behavior, then the parents have done a disservice to their children, for they've just taught their children that there are no real consequences, and therefore, no need to ever accept responsibility for their actions.

As my daughter has gotten older, I haven't had to spank her. It's been months since the last time she got one. In turn, I hear from her teachers and other adults, how well-mannered she is, and how well-behaved she is.


All that being said, the little boy in that video needs professional intervention, and so do the parents. The part where the father spanks the kid and sends him sprawling was really awful... The kid may have ADHD, Asberger's, or some form of autism. The way he was behaving was clearly FAR beyond the normal sort of mischievousness or misbehaving of ordinary kids. The parents sitting there tolerating being spat on, punched, kicked, etc., are idiots.
Nuff said.
Title: Re: Things that make you say....Hmmmm
Post by firebrix on Jun 30th, 2005, 5:15pm
Interesting topic because NZ has just passed a law to make it an offence to spank a child. No more "swats" spanks or smacks or the parents will face charges.

I was fortunate in that I had a "good child" who responded to logic and reason, but not all do. I didn't need to spank. I'm really not sure about this new law although I'm sure it's based on good principles. I bet a lot of otherwise good parents end up facing charges while true abusers continue their lack of personal control. Time will tell, I guess, but this would be the first time politics has dictated how we raise our children down here. It's caused a bit of a storm too.

Dunno whether this makes you say Hmmmmm or not.
Sorry if I was OT.


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