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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> Poll for 02 users.....
        
(Message started by: Jonny on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:15pm)
Title: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:15pm
Have you had or ever thought you had rebound HA's from 02?

Simple question.....simple answer please.

Thank you (im dead serious here)

.....................................jonny

Edit to add....Me?....No
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by broomhilda on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:21pm
No



Andrea
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Langa on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:24pm
no
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Linda_Howell on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:37pm


  No.


Linda
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by E-Double on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:39pm
No
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by clarence on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:42pm
yes
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Bob P on Jun 2nd, 2005, 6:46pm
No
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:10pm
Thanks for keeping the answers simple folks.

Im trying to prove a point here and will let you know what it is.....keep the answers coming.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by eddie on Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:18pm
no
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by nani on Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:20pm
no
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Ueli on Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:20pm
No
    [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pattik on Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:49pm
NO
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by notseinfeld on Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:50pm
Nope
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Sean_C on Jun 2nd, 2005, 7:58pm
nope
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by stevegeebe on Jun 2nd, 2005, 8:07pm
no
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by JDH on Jun 2nd, 2005, 8:30pm
nada

Jim
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by kissmyglass on Jun 2nd, 2005, 9:21pm
NO
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by maffumatt on Jun 2nd, 2005, 9:24pm
no
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jimi on Jun 2nd, 2005, 9:25pm
  Nein
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by ClusterChuck on Jun 2nd, 2005, 9:30pm
No
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Not4Hire on Jun 2nd, 2005, 9:31pm
nope


jonny...call me?
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by clarence on Jun 2nd, 2005, 9:50pm
uh...can I change my answer?

Casey
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Redneck on Jun 2nd, 2005, 9:53pm
Hell No
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Gator on Jun 2nd, 2005, 11:33pm
personally...no
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Ree on Jun 3rd, 2005, 12:12am
Dave ~~~No!
Ree~~~~No!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by LeLimey on Jun 3rd, 2005, 5:13am
Yes - til I changed how I was using it. Not any more!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by vietvet2tours on Jun 3rd, 2005, 11:43am
negative and it works first time everytime
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by thomas on Jun 3rd, 2005, 11:47am

on 06/03/05 at 05:13:41, LeLimey wrote:
Yes - til I changed how I was using it. Not any more!

Same here, had rebounds when I was using too low of a flow rate(8lpm).  Now no rebounds at all.  (15lpm)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by aprilbee on Jun 3rd, 2005, 11:47am
No
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by lionsound on Jun 3rd, 2005, 12:07pm
No
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Kirk on Jun 3rd, 2005, 12:17pm
Not Yet  [smiley=cowboy.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by SteCo on Jun 3rd, 2005, 12:26pm
No
Great stuff!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mr. Happy on Jun 3rd, 2005, 12:36pm
Nonononononononono...........but I stick to brand name glue.

http://mushys.com/pix/bigben.jpg
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by tpitts77 on Jun 3rd, 2005, 1:06pm
yes, once i think.

lmao- mr. happy
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by TheMasterBaker on Jun 3rd, 2005, 2:19pm
No.


Look here (http://www.rathergood.com/datsuns/)

King....Chinchilla Mayhem!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pattik on Jun 4th, 2005, 1:46pm
Okay....and the point is...? ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 4th, 2005, 2:14pm

on 06/04/05 at 13:46:21, pattik wrote:
Okay....and the point is...? ;;D


The point is...is that I have read this board everyday for nearly six years and not once did I read a post that said  someone was getting rebounds from 02.

While reading the OUCH/UK board a few days ago I see someone advising someone else to resist using 02 cause it will just cause rebounds, well, I took that dude to task on his advice and folks over there came out of the woodwork.....all claiming that 02 causes rebounds.

That is the reason for this poll, I guess its an American/Brit thing....huh?

Looks like I was right, the ONLY definite YES was changed to "Can I change my answer"...02 does not cause rebounds.....Hey!, I even invited the UK folks over here to answer this poll.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by kissmyglass on Jun 4th, 2005, 2:22pm
Fuckin Brits....must be something in the "food" they eat... ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 4th, 2005, 2:24pm

on 06/04/05 at 14:22:38, kissmyglass wrote:
Fuckin Brits....must be something in the "food" they eat... ;;D


Now now Kev.....we like them, remember? ;;D

Its the damn crumpets....LMAO ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pattik on Jun 4th, 2005, 2:28pm
That's very weird that there is such a discrepancy...maybe there are lots of Brits who haven't had our benefit of hammering home the correct LMP, mask, and mask usage that is often talked about here.

[smiley=huh.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 4th, 2005, 2:43pm

on 06/04/05 at 14:28:44, pattik wrote:
That's very weird that there is such a discrepancy...maybe there are lots of Brits who haven't had our benefit of hammering home the correct LMP, mask, and mask usage that is often talked about here.

[smiley=huh.gif]


Same thoughts here, I know its a bitch to get 02 over there....could be they are not getting the flow needed.

I left well alone over there...I could never post my feelings there like I can here ;;D

Out of respect for the way they do things.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pattik on Jun 4th, 2005, 2:48pm

on 06/04/05 at 14:43:17, Jonny wrote:
.I could never post my feelings there like I can here ;;D



;;DThat, my dear is an understatement...you may be the guru here for expressing yourself. ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 4th, 2005, 2:56pm

on 06/04/05 at 14:48:39, pattik wrote:
;;DThat, my dear is an understatement...you may be the guru here for expressing yourself. ;;D


The size of a man's heart is not measured by how much he loves, but by how much smoke he does not pump up your ass.

Tell it just how you feel it or STFU! ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Gator on Jun 4th, 2005, 4:14pm
I held off on posting this, because I didn't want to steal your thunder in case this was where you were going.  This may explain why the OUCH-UK people say oxygen causes rebounds.


According to the following exerpt, Dr. Kudrow noted that approximately 25% of clusterheads suffer from rebound headaches from oxygen.

http://www.headaches.org/consumer/topicsheets/oxygen.html


Quote:
The side effects of oxygen inhalation are rare. Cluster headache patients are very often smokers and if one should happen to light up while an oxygen tank is open, the result can be explosive. Another side effect of oxygen use was found by Dr. Kudrow who noticed that 25 percent of his study patients had rebound cluster headaches after oxygen inhalation therapy. No other side effects have been found and therefore, oxygen therapy is safe.



It may well be due to insufficient flow rate, but apparently it does happen.  Flow rates of 10 - 15 pm are not generally accepted by the medical community as any more effective than 7 - 10 lpm.  They are all hung up on oxygen saturation levels and the notion that 100% saturation is 100% saturation - more does not equal better.  These non-believers should read Dr. Rozen's paper on high flow rates, an exerpt of which is posted below.

http://www.chhelp.org/mhni.html


Quote:
From the newsletter Headliner, 2004, Issue 33, published by the  Michigan Head-Pain & Neurological Institute.

"High Oxygen Flow Rates for Cluster Headache"
               by Todd D. Rozen, M.D., Neurologist
.
.
.
MHNI's experience indicates patients who do not respond to the standard flow rates should be given the opportunity to use up to 15 liters/minute. However, prior to initiating this therapy, patients must obtain clearance from their primary care physician since serious lung disease and other conditions can make oxygen therapy unsafe or inappropriate. In addition, such oxygen therapy should not be used for more than a maximum of 10-20 minutes at a single setting.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by rextangle on Jun 4th, 2005, 4:23pm
Non! Niet! Nein! No! Negative!

Maybe the brits (since they drive on the wrong side of the road) put the mask on backwards and that may cause them to get rebounds headaches???? [smiley=huh.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by clarence on Jun 4th, 2005, 4:36pm
I may have something to say about this, as, I answered yes, and as I lived in the UK for about 18 months after living in the US, and before now living in Canada.

First - I answered yes because I find that the O2 lately aborts the headache, but really only for as long as I am breathing it.  When I stop breathing it, the CH returns.  Maybe this is not a true rebound, but I was trying to be simple.  I think that this has to do with what Thomas and LeLimey posted above.  Maybe my flow rate is not right.  I checked after reading this thread, and my tank is set at 10.  I will go up, and see if that helps.

Second - I asked if I could change my answer as a joke.  I just felt like an idiot that I was the only one.

Third - When I had O2 in the UK two things were difficult.  The first was getting the stuff in the first place.  It is SO MUCH EASIER to get mushrooms than it is to get Oxygen.  Crazy if you ask me.  The second thing is that it is even more difficult to get it at the righ flow rate and with the right mask.  When I finally did get an O2 script, it was like unheard of at the pharmacy to get it at anything more than like 7 lpm.  They had to order me this special tank that they had neer heard of before, which I had to educate them on, that was as small as a portable tank, and didn't last long.  SO - my thought is that people either are not getting the right flow rate, are not using the right mask (I couldn't get a non-rebreather, except if I got it from OUCH UK), or, are not breathing the O2 for a long enough period of time in order to conserve their tank.  But that is just speculation on my part.  When I had my tank I was conscious of how much I was using at one time because it was such a b***h to get a new one.

Anyway, loonger than you wanted Jonny, but, that is my 2 cents.  

Then again, it could be that those Brits are just kinda screwy.  

Casey
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by LeLimey on Jun 4th, 2005, 5:44pm

on 06/04/05 at 16:36:17, clarence wrote:
First - I answered yes because I find that the O2 lately aborts the headache, but really only for as long as I am breathing it.  When I stop breathing it, the CH returns.  Maybe this is not a true rebound, but I was trying to be simple.

Casey


Thats a common thing here, I think maybe people are breathing it at a lower rate as, as you say, getting prescribed it here can be a complete bitch for some people. Alot of docs won't consider it which is arse backwards I know.. alot of work to be done there.
I also think people stop breathing it too soon. Probably for the same reason. I'm very lucky, I have a good doctor who will prescribe me as much O2 as I need and as often as I want it. I'm the exception not the rule though sadly.


Quote:
Then again, it could be that those Brits are just kinda screwy.  


Well DUH!!.. Screwy is the polite word for wot I am!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 4th, 2005, 11:51pm
No I haven't.

I'm wondering if it depends on the definition of "rebound" that people use.  Rebound headache is typically a form of chronic daily headache - a more episodic type headache turns into a pain that does not go away.  The usual abortives, preventatives, and pain meds (if used) become no longer effective.

In some cases, we say that people with migraine 'rebound' off of trex injections because the half-life is short and when the injection wears off, the headache returns at full force.  That isnt' really rebound, however.

So...do they feel that they are 'rebounding' in the sense that when they stop the O2, the CH returns with a vengence, or they are developing an actual rebound episode to O2 where they enter into a type of chronic daily headache which becomes unresponsive to any other types of therapy?

That would be an interesting thing to find out!

Carrie :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 5th, 2005, 3:29am

on 06/03/05 at 19:05:04, Mike wrote:
I notice that jonny has started a poll in The States on rebounds with O2. Of the 20 or so responses, 19 said they never had rebounds and one first of all said he had rebounds and then asked if he could change his mind. I suppose that proves that Americans don't have rebounds with O2 but some Brits do. This illness never ceases to amaze me ;)


This from OUCH/UK

This is the post I had a problem with....any of you see what I saw wrong with this post?


on 05/23/05 at 10:58:19, Mike wrote:
Laurence, one point, you say you are using up to a full cylinder of O2 a day. Recent research by The Institute of Neurology has proven beyond doubt that overuse of O2 can, and probably will cause rebound attacks. Whilst I appreciate that when in an attack you need help, remember, if you can resist treating the attack with O2 you will probably have less attacks!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by clarence on Jun 5th, 2005, 7:59am

on 06/05/05 at 03:29:14, Jonny wrote:
This from OUCH/UK

This is the post I had a problem with....any of you see what I saw wrong with this post?


Yeah.  Sounds like O2 is the new Imitrex.  Beyond a reasonable doubt huh?
Casey
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by dragonlady on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:23am
Ummm Hi Guys

Please don't jump all over my post, I'm a newcomer here, BUT I am a chronic sufferer in UK and, I am proud to say, a member of OUCH (UK).

A couple of things I would like to say.  

First of all re: use of 02, yes we do use the right flow rates, yes we have the right regulators, yes we have the right masks and I am fortunate that I have a very good doctor who prescribes whatever I need.  It is a struggle sometimes getting 02 over here, but we get there in the end, its not quite as medieval over here as some would have you believe.

With regard to the Institute of Neurology research I was at a conference last year in London, where the professor said quite unequivocally that using 02 could cause rebound attacks, not that it would cause rebound attacks, meaning some folks may get rebound NOT ALL.

I think on two occasions I have had days where I have aborted an attack with 02 only and then had another attack a couple of hours later, so even if you get rebound on one occasion, it may not necessarily happen on the next or subsequent ones. I certainly don't get it all the time.

Thank God for 02 and Imigran/Imitrex, my two best weapons against the beast.

Jonny, be nice to me, I am your English Mom don't forget!

Oh and please note that I have not criticised you colonials in the same unflattering terms of the early posters on this thread!  My mum taught me to be nice to people on the way up, never know who you might meet on the way down!

Val

Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by nani on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:43am
But, if you have an attack a couple of hours after using O2...is that a rebound cluster, or just another hit? The whole "rebound" thing kinda confuses me. I know (and have had) rebounds from pain meds and NSAIDS, but I don't know if any of my cluster hits were "rebound" clusters or just another hit.  [smiley=huh.gif]
Note: It was not unusual for me to have hits every couple of hours while using nothing.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:48am

on 06/05/05 at 08:23:37, dragonlady wrote:
I think on two occasions I have had days where I have aborted an attack with 02 only and then had another attack a couple of hours later, so even if you get rebound on one occasion, it may not necessarily happen on the next or subsequent ones. I certainly don't get it all the time.

Thank God for 02 and Imigran/Imitrex, my two best weapons against the beast.


I think Lizzie has a point on the definition of rebound.  

Yes, when I use oxygen another attack will also occur later, but that would happen with any abortive for me since three times a night is common and so are day hits.  Happens the same with imitrex for me when I use it as a sole abortive, many hits.   I don't expect the oxygen to make them stop coming,  just abort the present one.  
 I think the Brits are talking about the reoccurance of a hit happening afterward again, which for me is different from a rebound headache.  Oxygen takes care of it fine most of the time, but yes they come back, same as when I use any abortive.  Having oxygen "put it down for good" during the night is not expected that's what an adequate level of preventative is for and why it is important to me.  Sparse use of trex(my other abortive) in combination with oxygen will keep it down longer however.  
A reoccurance of hits with oxygen?  Yes.  
A reoccurance of hits without an abortive?  Yes.  fuk that
A reoccurance of hits with trex?   Yes
Adequate preventative?    8)

I dunno


Kevin M
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 5th, 2005, 9:17am
Yes I think there are a few things important to note here:

1. When the O2 use stops, does the attack get to full force again?
2. When using O2, are you experiencing an abnormally higher than usual number of attacks per day than you would without O2?  (remember, O2 is an abortive as Kevin said - and it is not designed to prevent future attacks)
3. Are these "rebound" attacks occurring when they would occur whether or not you would use oxygen?  If not the exact same time a day, the approximate same number per day?  (I know it sounds similar to the last question.)
4. Is it leading to an underlying type of chronic daily headache?


Here is at least one very reliable link on rebound, and I can post my own info on rebound headache if you want.  This relatively new discussion on imitrex even causing rebound doesn't necessarily mean 'rebound' in the true sense as much as the studies have shown that trex use may cause an increase in clusters - which would make for an entirely different situation than rebound, although maybe a new definition for 'rebound' in the cluster sense.  I have not heard of this occurring with O2 in the slightest, nor have I experienced it at all...but then, new things pop up everywhere.

http://www.headaches.about.com/cs/medicationsusage/a/rebound.htm
You have a headache. Taking medications is one of the logical things to do. There is something to consider before you take that medication though -- the dreaded rebound headaches. They're caused by taking medications too often. Sometimes just taking a drug for two or three consecutive days can cause rebound.


I would just be leary of anyone beginning to say that more and more things cause rebound.  The general concensus among the neuro crowd is currently that rebound is caused by use of triptans/ergotamines/narcotics more than 10 days/month and the use of simple analgesics more than 15 days a month.  That's the current definition of "medication overuse headache."  They keep making the guidelines more and more strict - and as we know - cluster sufferers often break the typical guidelines for the amount of triptans/month, etc...so the last thing we need is for them to put O2, our one safety abortive, in the category of something causing rebound.

I always told my old neuro that if they started saying O2 and ice cause rebound, then that's it for me - I'm taking the plummet out the 9th story window. LOL

Carrie :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Ruth on Jun 5th, 2005, 9:29am
no
I too was confused about all of this rebound stuff.
But if a rebound is a hit that just lingers on, then nothing  I have used has caused me rebounds.

Ruth
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 5th, 2005, 9:37am
Jonny seems to suggest there is something wrong with my post.


Quote:
Laurence, one point, you say you are using up to a full cylinder of O2 a day. Recent research by The Institute of Neurology has proven beyond doubt that overuse of O2 can, and probably will cause rebound attacks. Whilst I appreciate that when in an attack you need help, remember, if you can resist treating the attack with O2 you will probably have less attacks!


I have reported, and passed on comments from Prof. Goadsby and agreed with by Dr. Kudrow both of whom are eminent in the field of CH. They may both be incorrect but because jonny says that in six years he has never heard of O2 rebound attacks doesn't mean they don't happen. jonny you have asked if anyone knows what is wrong with my posting, please explain what the problem is.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 5th, 2005, 9:57am

on 06/05/05 at 09:37:15, Mike_P wrote:
jonny you have asked if anyone knows what is wrong with my posting, please explain what the problem is.


Your advice sucks, saying that it may cause rebounds is one thing...telling that dude not to use it is fucking stupid!

Hi Val  [smiley=wave.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by clarence on Jun 5th, 2005, 10:13am

on 06/05/05 at 09:57:13, Jonny wrote:
Your advice sucks, saying that it may cause rebounds is one thing...telling that dude not to use it is fucking stupid!

Hi Val  [smiley=wave.gif]



Quote:
Tell it just how you feel it or STFU


8)

Casey
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 5th, 2005, 10:53am
Jonny, do you actually understand English? Where exactly does it say "not to use it."Sometimes you really show yourself to be a foul mouthed ignoramus. Why resort to swearing, is it because you have a very limited vocabulary or a diversion because you know you are wrong and by swearing you think people wont notice?
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 5th, 2005, 11:06am

on 06/05/05 at 10:53:56, Mike_P wrote:
Where exactly does it say "not to use it.


When you tell someone to resist using 02 you are telling them that they should not use it....Duh!

Why do you sir insult me by calling me a ignoramus. Have I insulted you?

I can swear on this board because this is fucking America, its called freedom of speech. Something given to us after we booted the likes of you out of our fucking country ;;D

If you would like to turn this into an insult game because thats all you have.....lets rock!!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 5th, 2005, 11:10am
I do believe this is what Jonny is referring to when he says you are advising someone not to use O2 (Although I know Jonny can well enough defend himself!):


Quote:
Whilst I appreciate that when in an attack you need help, remember, if you can resist treating the attack with O2 you will probably have less attacks!


I disagree with this, and I know many neurologists in the headache field who also would disagree with this statement.  Yes, Kudrow was the first to discover that Oxygen is a good abortive treatment for those suffering from clusters.  I have yet to see anything published by him that states it causes rebound.  I'd have to do some searching around to see this.

Also, there is this issue of "rebound" (aka. medication overuse headache) versus an increase or change in frequency of cluster attacks due to the use of certain abortives.  This has been discussed in the following journal article:


Quote:
1: Headache. 2004 Jul-Aug;44(7):713-8. Related Articles, Links  

   
Subcutaneous sumatriptan induces changes in frequency pattern in cluster headache patients.

Rossi P, Lorenzo GD, Formisano R, Buzzi MG.

Headache Centre, INI Grottaferrata, Rome, Italy.

OBJECTIVES: To document the relationship between the use of subcutaneous (SQ) sumatriptan (sum) and a change in frequency pattern of cluster headache (CH) in six patients. To discuss the clinical and pathophysiological implications of this observation in the context of available literature. BACKGROUND: Treatment with SQ sum may cause an increase in attack frequency of CH but data from literature are scant and controversial. METHODS: Six CH sum-naive patients (three episodic and three chronic according to the International Headache Society (IHS) criteria) are described. RESULTS: All six patients had very fast relief from pain and accompanying symptoms from the drug but they developed an increase in attack frequency soon after using SQ sum. In all patients, the CH returned to its usual frequency within a few days after SQ sum was withdrawn or replaced with other drugs. Five patients were not taking any prophylactic treatment and SQ sum was the only drug prescribed to treat their headache. CONCLUSIONS: Physicians should recognize the possibility that treatment of CH with SQ sum may be associated with an increased frequency of headache attacks.

Publication Types:
Case Reports

PMID: 15209695 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


However, what everyone needs to pay attention to is the definition of rebound/medication overuse headache as defined by the IHS and described at a variety of headache conferences around the world.  Rebound is NOT an increase in cluster attacks related to the use of certain abortives, like imitrex.  Eventually perhaps they will alter the definition of rebound to include an increase in clusters related to overuse of abortives as a form of rebound.

However, for the time being...while I'm not going to point to the IHS at this time because there is a very simple definition on the headaches.about.com site which is an extremely accurate definition of rebound:

Quote:
Rebound Headache
headache caused by medication overuse. Characterized by continuous dull head pain throughout the day with periods of increased pain. The general recommendation for avoiding rebound is not to use medications from the same class more than two or three days per week.


As you can see, an increase in cluster frequency/intensity related to the use of certain abortives does not fit into the definition of rebound.  I'm not saying it is not an important issue that deserves attention.  For some time now, many of us have noted that the more trex is used, it seems to bring on more attacks.  However, that's not rebound.  So there needs to be a different way of distinguishing it.

For the time being, all that has been addressed from a research standpoint (that I've read - keep in mind, most of my reading is through "Headache" and not so much in the other journals since I have a subscription to it) is that abortives such as imitrex have a potential to increase the number of attacks that cluster sufferers experience in a day.  If it were addressing rebound, it would lead to a more chronic, dull, tension-like headache that becomes resistant to almost all abortives, preventatives, rescue meds that have previously worked in the past.

I'm attending the 47th annual scientific meeting of the American Headache Society (I'm a trainee member) at the end of this month, and now that this issue has been brought up, I hope to have the opportunity to discuss it with some of the professionals there.  I know Goadsby will be there, but I highly doubt I'd have the priveledge (sp?) or opportunity to meet him!  However, I do know several other neurologists who I'm interested in discussing this topic with.

Just my point of view from evidence based research!

Carrie :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 5th, 2005, 11:23am

on 06/05/05 at 11:10:21, Lizzie2 wrote:
Yes, Kudrow was the first to discover that Oxygen is a good abortive treatment for those suffering from clusters.  I have yet to see anything published by him that states it causes rebound.


Good point, Kid!

Wheres your source, Mike?

Got a link to anything that says that?

/Tapping boot
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 5th, 2005, 11:26am
Thanks bro!  

You know if they start declaring oxygen as leading to rebound and restricting our use of it, that many if not most of us are going to be up shit's creek without a paddle!

I know that plus ice are all I use to abort the CH attacks.

Then again, thanks to your help and the help of others on this site, we've also realized that we can always look to welder's O2 if we HAD to...but I wouldn't want to have that as our only option!

Carrie :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 5th, 2005, 11:35am
Lizzie, interesting response, I am not saying that O2 does cause rebounds, all I was saying was that Prof Goadsby and Dr. Kudrow (see Gator’s posting ) have both said it does. Frankly, I am not knowledgeable or arrogant enough to give an opinion. I am however fortunate enough to be in very regular contact with Prof Goadsby and will ask him again to state his views on O2 and rebounds again.

Jonny,

My wordsL
Quote:
if you can resist treating the attack with O2 you will probably have less attacks

I was not saying:
Quote:
telling them that they should not use it.


Try and keep up!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Leon on Jun 5th, 2005, 11:36am
Ja
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 5th, 2005, 11:49am

on 06/05/05 at 11:35:34, Mike_P wrote:
Lizzie, interesting response!


Yes, it is ;;D


on 06/05/05 at 11:35:34, Mike_P wrote:
I am not knowledgeable or arrogant enough to give an opinion.


Gee, seems you are arrogant enough to walk into my Kingdom and insult me and scare someone from using 02 on your own turf....gimmie a break!


on 06/05/05 at 11:35:34, Mike_P wrote:
I am however fortunate enough to be in very regular contact with Prof Goadsby and will ask him again to state his views on O2 and rebounds again.


Do you think between the tea and crumpets you could get the good Doc on a laptop to post here?....I mean, good buddies and all....im sure he would do that.....LMMFAO ;;D

Keep up?......Dude, you dont know what up is in my world, strap in (for your sake)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 5th, 2005, 12:11pm

Quote:
Gee, seems you are arrogant enough to walk into my Kingdom and insult me and scare someone from using 02 on your own turf....gimmie a break!


If you remember correctly you came into "my kingdom" as you put it and your first sentence included the comment that I was talking "BS" I have responded accordingly.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 5th, 2005, 12:18pm

on 06/05/05 at 12:11:28, Mike_P wrote:
If you remember correctly you came into "my kingdom" as you put it and your first sentence included the comment that I was talking "BS" I have responded accordingly.


See there....that is your biggest mistake....your no fucking King!

Your a peeon.....in the biggest way ;;D

Love you Mike, now I must mow the lawn  :-*
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 5th, 2005, 12:29pm

on 06/05/05 at 11:35:34, Mike_P wrote:
Lizzie, interesting response, I am not saying that O2 does cause rebounds, all I was saying was that Prof Goadsby and Dr. Kudrow (see Gator’s posting ) have both said it does. Frankly, I am not knowledgeable or arrogant enough to give an opinion. I am however fortunate enough to be in very regular contact with Prof Goadsby and will ask him again to state his views on O2 and rebounds again.


Not trying to pick a fight or anything - but are you implying that I AM being arrogant by giving my opinion?  Just curious...  If you want, I can give my credentials, but I would find that to be highly unnecessary here...as this is a support site.  Some of us are just really "science-brained" types and have spent a lot of time really learning about this stuff through a variety of resources!  If you met me in person, I doubt you'd find me arrogant... (Then again, others may beg to differ but I honestly never try to be if I do come across that way!  I just love research and finding out all kinds of info...)

Lizzie
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by BobG on Jun 5th, 2005, 12:40pm

on 06/02/05 at 18:15:21, Jonny wrote:
Simple question.....simple answer please.

Wow! Those are some long-winded ways of saying yes or no.

For me........it has never caused a rebound, but then I've never used it.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 5th, 2005, 12:42pm
Lizzie, no, I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I really did find it an interesting posting. Seems that whatever I say here is misinterpreted. As George Bernard Shaw once said "England and America are two countries divided by a common language."

Mike
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 5th, 2005, 1:07pm

on 06/05/05 at 12:42:53, Mike_P wrote:
Lizzie, no, I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I really did find it an interesting posting. Seems that whatever I say here is misinterpreted. As George Bernard Shaw once said "England and America are two countries divided by a common language."

Mike


LOL which is quite funny since my boyfriend says I do not speak "American" English.  I say it comes from a background of growing up learning several different languages as well as having family from all over the world.  Who knows...  It doesn't seem weird to me!

At any rate, no hard feelings. :)  I was just primarily pointing out that there is a difference between rebound and increased frequency of cluster attacks.  I still don't really have a clear idea of which one you are referring to, but I'll have to also research around on my own to see what has been written and also see if I get any answers when I go to the meeting at the end of the month.

Take care,
Lizzie :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 5th, 2005, 1:59pm
Will be interested to know what the opinion is at the meeting. We have our own conference next Sunday Prof Goadsby is our guest speaker. I have no doubt this topic will come up during his presentation.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 5th, 2005, 2:06pm

on 06/05/05 at 12:40:23, BobG wrote:
For me........it has never caused a rebound, but then I've never used it.


Then why the fuck are you even posting to this thread?

Must be a Vegas thing ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Candycane on Jun 5th, 2005, 2:25pm
No rebounds with 02 but no big help either, sad to say :'( :'(

I am rare  ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Ueli on Jun 5th, 2005, 2:32pm
I would be very interested, is there any half-reasonable argument that connects my attacks today to my use of oxygen yesterday or the days before?
Ueli                 [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by ClusterChuck on Jun 5th, 2005, 3:06pm

Quote:
Laurence, one point, you say you are using up to a full cylinder of O2 a day. Recent research by The Institute of Neurology has proven beyond doubt that overuse of O2 can, and probably will cause rebound attacks. Whilst I appreciate that when in an attack you need help, remember, if you can resist treating the attack with O2 you will probably have less attacks!


I find that strange.  I have used a full "M" tank in one day MANY times.  Has it caused rebounds?  NO!  I have the same number and frequency of hits, whether I am using oxygen or not (I sometimes don't plan well, and run out of O2 - I know, I am a dumb shit, AT TIMES ...)


Quote:
First - I answered yes because I find that the O2 lately aborts the headache, but really only for as long as I am breathing it.  When I stop breathing it, the CH returns.

I have this happen, too.  But, to me, that is not a rebound.  I attribute that to either not breathing it long enough, or that is one of the times that O2 does not work.  It works MOST of the time for me, but not ALL the time.  I have about an 80% success rate, and I will take that any day over a 0% rate.

Chuck
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by BobG on Jun 5th, 2005, 4:39pm

on 06/05/05 at 14:06:06, Jonny wrote:
Then why the fuck are you even posting to this thread?

Must be a Vegas thing ;;D

Since nobody else has said anything to answer a simple yes or no question since the beginning of page 2, I figured I would toss out something just a useless.  ;;D

Vegas thing? Yep, breathing too much second hand smoke in the cabana. It's those Vegas showgirls. I keep telling them "You can get naked. You can have your way with me. But, smoking is bad for you." But they don't listen.   [smiley=laugh.gif]

OK folks, time to stop with the off-subject replies. Get back to not answering jonny's orginal question. :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 5th, 2005, 7:29pm
I'll not answer Jonny's question too!

I'm not sure if 02 gives me rebounds or not (and yes I am using the best kit there is and the right flow rate, including a mask set up that is better than a standrad non-rebreather)

If I stop the 02 as soon as the pain has gone, the attack comes back full force soon afterwards (within an hour normally) If I stay on it at a lower rate for a while, I am usually fine until the next expected attack time.

BUT

Now I'm going to cause a row again. I almost exclusively use 02 to abort, I only use Imigran in extremis when I have no other option. My cycles are getting worse each time.

So is 02 making them worse?

I personally believe any prescription abortive and prevent worsens our condition and potentially prolongs our cycles, and I include 02 in this belief.

ergo I think Mike is sensible to suggest to anyone that using the minimum of EVERYTHING if you can is the best policy as far as we know currently.

W the B

P.S. Last time Jonny and Mike had an argument on here I caused it ;;D ;;D ;;D  oooooppppssss!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Sean_C on Jun 5th, 2005, 7:42pm
I still don't see how the Brits or anybody else can tell me that I get rebound headaches from o2???? I definately do not. In fact after suffering for 10 plus years without meds or a proper diagnosis, I have found definate comfort in abortive medications and some preventatives.  

I know I get rebounds from my trex, however I would rather suffer for 8 attacks per day for 15 minutes at a kip 6 in lieu of 6 attacks for 1 hour at a kip 8 to 10. You do the math.

And as for Mike, where a pretty tight family over here dude, nuff said.

Sean.......................................................
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 5th, 2005, 7:52pm

on 06/05/05 at 19:42:33, Sean_C wrote:
I still don't see how the Brits or anybody else can tell me that I get rebound headaches from o2???? I definately do not.

And as for Mike, where a pretty tight family over here dude, nuff said.

Sean.......................................................


No Brit is telling you that you get rebounds from 02 Sean. What is being said is that 02 may cause rebounds in some people, and it isn't a Brit saying it, Prof Goadsby is an Aussie!

and btw, Mike knows about "the family" and he and Jonny know each other already, so no warning needed on that score ;;D
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Sean_C on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:08pm

on 06/05/05 at 19:52:19, pubgirl wrote:
and btw, Mike knows about "the family" and he and Jonny know each other already, so no warning needed on that score ;;D


Don't get me wrong either, I'd stand by a Brit anytime any place. We live and die together, I love you guys ;;D We really are one in my book ;;D

Love ya ;;D

Sean............................

(sp)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Filbert on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:10pm
Anybody know the OUCH USA view on this?

    Filbert.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:26pm
I wouldn't give much for your chances of getting an answer to that one Filb :-X
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Kirk on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:49pm
Just because Filberts a nut. Why would'nt he get an answer on that?

[smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Filbert on Jun 5th, 2005, 8:53pm
Any answer will be gratefully accepted by said "nut". ;)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 5th, 2005, 10:59pm
LOL and it's not a moot point, but I will keep beating it over the head...

Rebound and an increase in frequency in clusters are not one in the same...
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Gator on Jun 6th, 2005, 10:14am

on 06/05/05 at 11:10:21, Lizzie2 wrote:
Yes, Kudrow was the first to discover that Oxygen is a good abortive treatment for those suffering from clusters.  I have yet to see anything published by him that states it causes rebound.  I'd have to do some searching around to see this.


Gee, thanks Carrie.  In case you missed it and apparently you did:

(From the National Headache Foundation)

Quote:
http://www.headaches.org/consumer/topicsheets/oxygen.html

Another side effect of oxygen use was found by Dr. Kudrow who noticed that 25 percent of his study patients had rebound cluster headaches after oxygen inhalation therapy. No other side effects have been found and therefore, oxygen therapy is safe.


I do think that not everyone is using the same definition of the term "rebound."  Maybe when we get a definitive definition, then we can agree one way or the other.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 6th, 2005, 3:42pm

on 06/06/05 at 10:14:17, Gator wrote:
Gee, thanks Carrie.  In case you missed it and apparently you did:

(From the National Headache Foundation)

I do think that not everyone is using the same definition of the term "rebound."  Maybe when we get a definitive definition, then we can agree one way or the other.


Thanks Gator--

You're right - I didn't see it.  I don't really spend much time on the NHF website because I'm spending most time between reading posts and information here, on OUCH, on the about.com site, on AHS, and ACHE...and that's just the headache side of things.  So yeah...nobody can catch everything.  I did say in that post that most of the articles I read are in the journal "Headache" because I have a subscription for it through the American Headache Society, and I don't get a chance to read all the journals put out related to headache.  It's impossible for one persron to know EVERY link and resource out there on the web (although I do believe BillyJ tried that with his links ;)  but I did state that I hadn't seen it written anywhere - or at least not addressed in anything I'd seen recently.  My apologies because you sound offended or angry or condescending or SOMEthing in your post to me.

Here are some definitions/descriptions of rebound found from various resources:

From the American Council of Headache Education:

Quote:
Rebound Headache
Rebound headache may occur among people with tension-type headaches as well as in those with migraines.

It appears to be the result of taking prescription or nonprescription pain relievers daily or almost every day, contrary to directions on the package label.

If prescription or nonprescription pain relievers are overused, headache may "rebound" as the last dose wears off, leading one to take more and more pills. This is a good reason to call your doctor!


Brief Definition from one article on NECH's site:

Quote:
Rebound headache typically lasts many hours per day and is a steady, pressure type pain all over the head. It may resolve temporarily with another dose of pain killers.


Two links from the about.com site:
http://www.headaches.about.com/library/glossary/bl-rebound-ha.htm
http://headaches.about.com/cs/medicationsusage/a/rebound.htm

Links from the NHF:
http://www.headaches.org/consumer/topicsheets/analgesicrebound.html
http://www.headaches.org/consumer/topicsheets/ergotaminerebound.html

And some more just random links:
http://familydoctor.org/830.xml
http://nydailynews.healthology.com/nydailynews/15851.htm
http://health.discovery.com/centers/articles/articles.html?chrome=c12&article=LC_10&center=p09


I personally like how the info is presented on the about.com migraine and headache site the best because it is up-to-date, comprehensive, and easy to understand.  There is a great deal of info from a couple of books I have on rebound headache (which also can be called medication overuse headache or analgesic overuse headache).  

Here are just a couple of facts I got from neurologists I know:
This is from an email where a neurologist was helping to edit my general presentation on migraine and headaches:

Quote:
Slide 18: The definition of medication overuse headache depends on the offending drug: the frequency of use is more than 10 days/month for narcotics, triptans and ergots and more than 15 days/month for simple analgesics.

Another email, which I can't locate at the moment was from a different neuro which stated that ANY analgesic can cause rebound - including someone who has to take an 81mg aspirin a day if they are already headache prone.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 6th, 2005, 3:49pm

on 06/06/05 at 10:14:17, Gator wrote:
Maybe when we get a definitive definition, then we can agree one way or the other.


There is a pretty good consensus in the headache community as to what rebound is, but there IS disagreement as to what does and does not lead to rebound.  As you'll see from the links I posted, there are a variety of views (and even search Google yourself) on which meds do and do not cause rebound.

Some specialists feel that all triptans can lead to rebound.  Some feel that Amerge and Frova do not.

Some specialists feel that any and all analgesics can lead to rebound, and some feel that straight narcotics or certain analgesics do not lead to rebound...or at least not with the same frequency.

On the whole, the definition of rebound remains the same.  It is basically a low-grade form of chronic daily headache which becomes unresponsive to all other forms of treatment which have typically been effective for that particular person.  I have quite a bit of info on rebound, it's patho and treatment in my honors presentation, but it would take a lot of copying and pasting to put it all here since it's contained in several different power point slides.

Maybe oxygen does cause this for certain people.  I think my own interest was perked because it sounded like the argument was based on the fact that oxygen may be leading to a greater number of clusters per day for someone who uses it.  This does not fit the definition of rebound, which just leads to more confusion among sufferers.  Like I've posted and said above, there have been articles and evidence that imitrex and some potential other meds may increase the frequency of cluster headaches, possibly even extending an episodic's cycle...but these sources don't really state that the cluster sufferer using these meds really develops a form of "rebound" in the traditional sense.

These are all questions I am looking forward to asking a few neuros I know later this month.

For now, that's all I got...unless you want more searching - in which case, I'll keep digging...

Carrie
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 6th, 2005, 5:35pm
Gator again,

I've been rereading through this entire thread and also reading on some more sites just because I wanted to find all the info I could.

I saw in your one long post that you had referenced the NHF quote about Kudrow and O2 and rebound.  I'm sorry that I overlooked that...  I thought you meant that I hadn't seen it on the NHF site.  My bad!!

Just one added thought - I did a pub med search for Kudrow's articles on oxygen.  Just searched for Kudrow as author and oxygen as a word in any field.  Looks like his articles are from awhile ago - which makes sense because he was doing the bulk of his research on O2 and clusters some time ago (at least as far as I know...)  Maybe "rebound" meant something different at that time or he was using it in a different context?

That quote from the NHF fact sheet says "rebound cluster headaches" so maybe that is just a spinoff on the official term of rebound?  I dunno...

I would have liked to read thru Kudrow's articles, but all I could get was an abstract on O2 saturations and cluster sufferers.  His full length articles aren't available to Jeff students/faculty/employees through our library without actually going to the library and locating the journal.  It does say we have it in our print collection - maybe something for me to do on Wednesday because I'm stuck in Philly for a looooooooong time between my 2nd and 3rd appointments, and I can't do much on the crutches! LOL

Again - sorry that I didn't see it in your post before and made the assumption that you meant I hadn't seen it on the NHF site.

Take care,
Carrie :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 6th, 2005, 5:47pm
Ya know whats funny?.....OUCH/UK has blocked any link coming from this site.....Hmmmm

I guess we are devided more than we knew!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 6th, 2005, 5:57pm
Are you sure Jonny?

Bloody ridiculous and really, really stupid if true as we quite often post links to useful info from here.

How can I test that (dopey question probably but then I'm dopey)

Wendy
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:09pm
Jonny

I just tested it and posted a link to the Kudzu thread and it worked fine on both the Members Board and the Support Board. No block there



Wendy
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by BlueMeanie on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:09pm

on 06/05/05 at 19:29:44, pubgirl wrote:
I personally believe any prescription abortive and prevent worsens our condition and potentially prolongs our cycles, and I include 02 in this belief.


I'll 2nd that PubGirl.

I'm still sooo confused on this rebound stuff. For me 02 will kill a hit, but the hit always comes back sooner than the normal expected "next hit" time. Just like Trex, if I take 1/3 shot, the beast returns way sooner than normal. A full shot keeps the beast away longer but cost too much. I settle for 1/2 which will usually give me 4-6 hours between hits. I've always thought of it as the beast will continue to return until it's drained whatever it wants from you. Only then will it leave you alone until next time around.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:15pm
Well, I just tested it with a brit and all I got was "You are being redirected.... one moment please....!"
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:15pm
blue meanie

exactly what it think! hence why I believe Mike is right (in my view if not backed up by research) to encourage any new sufferer not to cram as many treatments as possible into his body, as that tends to be what we all do at the beginning before we get wiser. Mike has suffered for a very long time and he just tries to help new people as best he can from his very lengthy and painful experience.

Wendy
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:47pm
Update


I posted a test message on OUCH containing a link to here and several people have now checked it and there is no block to links from there to ch.com

Wendy
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by LeLimey on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:51pm
I just checked the link on ouch uk to the kudzu thread too and it does work.. I only started reading it and then couldn't work out which flipping browser to reply on!
Say nothing.. I know I'm a muppet!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Sean_C on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:53pm
He musta pissed off the UK King ;;D

Go figure ;;D

Sean................................
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by pubgirl on Jun 6th, 2005, 6:59pm
We haven't got a King, Mike wears dresses sometimes though, so he could be Queen if we asked him  ;;D

I'm Guy Fawkes ;)


Wendy
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Lizzie2 on Jun 6th, 2005, 7:21pm

on 06/06/05 at 18:09:46, BlueMeanie wrote:
I'll 2nd that PubGirl.

I'm still sooo confused on this rebound stuff. For me 02 will kill a hit, but the hit always comes back sooner than the normal expected "next hit" time. Just like Trex, if I take 1/3 shot, the beast returns way sooner than normal. A full shot keeps the beast away longer but cost too much. I settle for 1/2 which will usually give me 4-6 hours between hits. I've always thought of it as the beast will continue to return until it's drained whatever it wants from you. Only then will it leave you alone until next time around.


That makes me think of even another potential reason for why people react differently to this issue.  I am chronic, but I do seem to have 'cycles' of a sort within being chronic.  I'm what they used to call "primary chronic cluster" which is someone who is chronic without ever having been episodic.  I don't know what it's like for them to go away for awhile, and I wonder if I wasn't already prone to becoming chronic based on the other major headache condition I have.

At any rate, no matter what 'stage' or 'cycle' I'm in, things are pretty consistent.  If I'm getting hit 6 times a day, then I'm still getting hit 6 times a day pretty consistently throughout that period.  If it's down to 2 times a day, then it often stays that way for awhile.  I haven't yet figured out what causes these fluctuations - but they do stay in a certain period for awhile.

At any rate, I never used trex when I had clusters because I had some bad adverse effects to it when I had tried it before for the other headache type.  However, oxygen works for most of my attacks - not sure of a percentage, but it's a pretty good rate for me.  If it hasn't dulled the cluster attack down to 'tolerable' which then dwindles to 'gone' within 10-15 minutes, then I figure it's probably just not working for that hit.

However, as long as I have the O2 available, it's always worth using for me.  It doesn't change if I'm going to have 6 attacks in a day or not - but instead of sweating out each of those attacks at their full capacity for the full duration, it shortens them down to maybe 10-15 minutes of very intense/severe pain, and then maybe another 15-30 minutes after that goes away where I feel like the cluster is dwindling off and not kicking my ass. :)

So I prefer to use the O2 and not suffer out the pain because it does not increase number of attacks I have.  My attacks don't have a solid clock-like regularity, although I do have this 4:00am thing that just won't go away...  So I don't notice if the O2 brings them on faster...as long as it doesn't increase the frequency or create more problems with my other headache type, then I'm very happy to continue using it because it significantly shortens my attacks.

But...as we always say... YMMV :)

L2 :)
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 6th, 2005, 7:22pm
Now THAT is CH headbangin sounds.....LOL

I LOVE IT!!! ;;D...and its a Brit site....LOL


on 06/03/05 at 14:19:25, TheMasterBaker wrote:
No.


Look here (http://www.rathergood.com/datsuns/)

King....Chinchilla Mayhem!
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Sean_C on Jun 6th, 2005, 7:23pm

on 06/06/05 at 18:59:13, pubgirl wrote:
We haven't got a King, Mike wears dresses sometimes though, so he could be Queen if we asked him  ;;D


LMMFAO whatever works babe ;;D We once got a quote from a house painter who said he'd paint the whole house for free if we let him do it in drag ;;D

Sean........................
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Ueli on Jun 6th, 2005, 9:24pm
"I think.... I believe...." are not very accurate terms to prove or disprove something.

Those that are convinced oxygen causes "rebound" attacks should try alternate weeks with and without oxygen, record the number, length and intensity of attacks and then present the results as proof of their believe. (If the result shouldn't be favorable, sweep it under the carpet ;))  


For me, there's positively a correlation:

http://tinypic.com/5oxzww

I've plotted my oxygen usage for the past 6.5 years. Each bar represents the delivery of a tank, 20 liter at 200 bar (= 40,000 liter at ambient pressure). It's obvious, there are 5 periods of low oxygen consumption, corresponding to low number of attacks (I use oxygen every time).

---> Low oxygen usage brings fewer attacks.  q.e.d.



Or does this graph simply show the cycles that a chronic has too http://tinypic.com/5oxwr6
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Sean_C on Jun 6th, 2005, 9:29pm

on 06/06/05 at 21:24:00, Ueli wrote:
q.e.d.


What is q.e.d. Ueli ????? I'm a dumbass ;;D

Sean...............
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Ueli on Jun 6th, 2005, 9:50pm

on 06/06/05 at 21:29:58, Sean_C wrote:
What is q.e.d.

Ask AcronymFinder (http://www.acronymfinder.com/) so nobody gets suspicious   ;;D

Quod Erat Demonstrandum (Latin: Which Was to Be Demonstrated), a cliche that is often used at the end of a proof.

 [smiley=smokin.gif]
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 7th, 2005, 7:42am

Quote:
Ya know whats funny?.....OUCH/UK has blocked any link coming from this site.....Hmmmm


There are only three people able to block links, MOB, he hasn't, Les, he hasn't and me, I haven't.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 7th, 2005, 2:22pm

on 06/07/05 at 07:42:56, Mike_P wrote:
There are only three people able to block links, MOB, he hasn't, Les, he hasn't and me, I haven't.


Then the problem must be on my end, eh
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Svenn on Jun 7th, 2005, 3:08pm
no
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Mike_P on Jun 7th, 2005, 3:43pm
jonny, not sure whose fault it is, but we haven't done anything I promise you.
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Jonny on Jun 7th, 2005, 4:06pm

on 06/07/05 at 15:43:43, Mike_P wrote:
jonny, not sure whose fault it is, but we haven't done anything I promise you.


Its cool bro, aint like im there everyday ;;D

PFDaN's
Title: Re: Poll for 02 users.....
Post by Kevin_M on Jun 7th, 2005, 9:08pm

on 06/06/05 at 21:24:00, Ueli wrote:
http://tinypic.com/5oxzww

there are 5 periods of low oxygen consumption, corresponding to low number of attacks (I use oxygen every time).


Or does this graph simply show the cycles that a chronic has too http://tinypic.com/5oxwr6


Ueli,

I got to go with low consumption corresponding with less need, possibly indicating cycles, which seem somewhat similarly spaced.  

[smiley=huh.gif]


Kevin M


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