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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> Justified or not?
        
(Message started by: Jonny on May 24^th, 2005, 7:53pm)

Title: Justified or not?
Post by Jonny on May 24^th, 2005, 7:53pm

The driver knows full well he is on camera (you may need to turn your speakers up)

Is respect for authority gone or is this driver over his head?....or out of control?...you be the judge.

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/content/detail.asp?ID=45291&type=1&page=1&fav=0

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by mynm156 on May 24^th, 2005, 8:00pm

If those were my kids I would kick the ever loving SHIT out of them! No Phone, No Video Games, NOTHING FOR A LONG TIME!!!!

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Karla on May 24^th, 2005, 8:10pm

Bad boys Definitely deserved to be grounded and locked in their room indefinitly.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by unsolved1 on May 24^th, 2005, 8:27pm

The bus driver lost control. If that was my kid he hit ... I'd hit him with a bat !

My .02

Unsolved

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by ckelly181 on May 24^th, 2005, 8:41pm

Kid with nasty attitude (they can drive you over the edge if you're not careful), bus driver out of control...not a good mix.

Nobody's in the right here I'd say, but it's ultimately the fault of the bus driver - the adult in the situation.

imo,

Chris

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Jonny on May 24^th, 2005, 8:47pm

Last I heard the driver is charged with misdermenor assault and the kid is charged with felony assualt.

Ill try to get more info tomorrow.....3 am is screaming at my door.

Night folks

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by maffumatt on May 24^th, 2005, 9:07pm

I would whip my kids ass then kick the bus drivers ass. Kids do stupid things and need to be corrected, if the driver pulled a paddle out and spanked his ass I would be fine with that but a slap across the face is going a little to far.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by don on May 24^th, 2005, 9:23pm

First I'd ground my kid for life.

Then I would put that driver in traction.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Tim_Z on May 24^th, 2005, 10:06pm

That was an ugly situation. The driver never did have control or respect. This has probably been going on for quite some time. There is no excuse for behavior like that from either party. If that would have been me my parents would have just killed me. The driver needs to learn how to handle the kids in a civil manner and the kids need to learn how to behave.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Drk^Angel on May 24^th, 2005, 11:11pm

If a bus driver or teacher were to hit my kids like that, he'd better be locked up, or he'd be likely to meet the business end of my shotgun. As the adult... The authority figure of the group, it is his responsibility to exercise as much control in the situation as possible. He did not have control of the people he was responsible for, so he should have exercised control in his own actions. He should have been aware that there was a serious loss of control on the bus involving multiple people, and therefore should not have gone to the back of the bus. It placed him at a serious disadvantage, allowing the students to surround him. The driver, at that time, may have feared for his safety, and that could explain why he attacked the student, but he should have never left the front of the bus, unless he had reason to believe someone else was in danger of harm...

Of course... There's this video that will allow the jury to see what happens. I've watched it a few times now, and from what I see, he's damned lucky he's not charged with worse. He lost control from the beginning. It appears as though he grabs the child in the front seat, and forces him to sit down... Assualting that child was not justified. When the second child he assults comes up behind him, he quickly turns around, and there is a pause before he strikes him. The kid had half raised his arm, and it could be assumed the kid was preparing to take the first swing, but does that excuse the driver for slapping the kid, forcefully tossing the kid around, and engaging in a physical confrontation with the kid. At least twice, the driver drove the kid into a seat using the force of his bodyweight while holding the kid near the neck and shoulder area. The driver must weigh about twice what the kid weighs... He's lucky the parents aren't suing for whiplash or other trauma.

It would seem to me, the driver should plead guilty, and ask for mercy because of extenuating circumstances... He'll prolly be fined, and get probation, but prolly not jail time, unless this isn't a first offense. The assault charges against the kid should be dropped, as long as the parents agree not to sue the school (They're not likely to sue the driver, because I doubt the driver gets paid enough to have anything to sue for). The kids directly involved with the confrontation at the back of the bus should be expelled. And the driver should be fired, and reported to any governing body that may exist in that state for bus drivers, if there is one. Two wrongs don't make a right, and everyone who was wrong should be punished, but the punishment should be fair, and should waste as little time, trouble, and money as possible. But that's just my 1/50 of a buck.

PFDAN..................................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by cootie on May 24^th, 2005, 11:34pm

Make the kids drive for a month and the bus driver go to school.........learnin how the other man lives Pam

I seen alot of wierd abuse when I was in school.......they all got away with it........'the teachers and custodians I mean'. I never forgot it........gave me a bit of an attitude about this sorta shit.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by giffy76 on May 25^th, 2005, 6:45am

I don't agree with the drivers decision, but I'll defend him. Kids these days have no respect for anything. How many times did any of you get a good whack or three from your principle? how many survived a slap in the mouth for talking back, or chewing on a bar of soap? I grew up respecting others and their property. A slap across the face? Jail time? Heck no, 3 days off no pay at the most. After all, he could have close fist decked the kid. If that were my kid I would give him lots of love and a one way ticket to military academy.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Drk^Angel on May 25^th, 2005, 7:40am

Simple fact of the matter, the driver did not do his job, and in the process assaulted two children, one with battery. Yes the children were disrespectful... Yes the children were unruly... But what he did was wrong. Plain and simple. He should be fired, or the school should be sued. Someone needs to take responsibility for what happened, and it's better that the driver does rather than the school.

PFDAN.............................. Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by E-Double on May 25^th, 2005, 7:49am

The drivers initial instinct was correct in calling for help.......Then he blew it!!!!

The kids should be punished but it is the adult who will lose his job and possibly encounter legal repercussions due to his lack of restraint.

He blew it!

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by ExplodingEyeBall on May 25^th, 2005, 9:12am

Hey.. How about those ads on that page???

;;D

I couldn't watch the whole video because other people were coming into work and the pics in the ads could get me fired.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by ozzy on May 25^th, 2005, 9:49am

Agree about the ads, oooops (delete cache and cookies!!!) Guess it needs a warning, Jonny.

I probably won't get in trouble for goofing off on the web, I *would* get in big trouble for those images.....

Ozzy

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by don on May 25^th, 2005, 10:29am

Quote:

The driver needs to learn how to handle the kids in a civil manner and the kids need to learn how to behave.

What the driver should have done is just wait for the deputy. He didn't. He took matters into his own hands and fucked up. Parents aren't even allowed to stirke their own children. What made him think he could?

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by giffy76 on May 25^th, 2005, 11:26am

Maybe the driver is a cluster head and was in mid attack. We all know how hard it is to keep your sh!t together. Or maybe he's just a d!ck head in mid attack. I'm going with d!ck head

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Jonny on May 25^th, 2005, 3:07pm

on 05/25/05 at 09:49:07, ozzy wrote:

Agree about the ads, oooops (delete cache and cookies!!!) Guess it needs a warning, Jonny.

Warning?.....Just the fact that it is me posting the link should be enough of a warning.....maybe some people should wait till they get home to open any link I post ;;D

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by kimmeesue on May 25^th, 2005, 3:45pm

In today's society, I don't think there should ever be just one adult supervising kids in that situation. It's no wonder there are so many accidents involving school buses. Unruly kids, distracted drivers....bad mix.
Kid's have way too much power today as evidenced by the last comment made in the video. I have heard kids taunt adults trying to get a reaction. They know they have power. It's scary sometimes.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by aprilbee on May 25^th, 2005, 5:02pm

At the risk of sounding like my mother, two wrongs don't make a right....the driver has a protocol to follow when it comes to unruly kids...he obviously didn't follow it, however those boys needed a kick in the butt, just needed to be from their parents... ;)

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by alchemy on May 26^th, 2005, 10:11am

It is awfully easy to get mad at the bus driver, as he did handle the situation wrong. He obviously never had the respect from the kids in the beginning. That falls into the parents lap. I don't know how many times I have seen a parent stand idely by and watch the disrespectful behavior of their children and not do anything about it except get mad if anyone complained about their kids behavior. That gives more power to the kid. In the neighborhood I grew up in everyone watched everyone's kids. If you got out of line someone be it an older kid or another parent would tell you to knock it off. If you were stupid enough to talk like these kids did, you got the slap up side the head you deserved. After a couple of them you usually got the message that it not right to talk to people like that. My kids knew growing up if they ever talked to an adult like that , there would be hell to pay at home. fortunately they were smart enough not to try it out. If kids today were taught at a young age appropriate behavior, sad situations like this would be far more rare then they are today. sorry stepping off the soapbox now just had to vent Jim

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by mynm156 on May 27^th, 2005, 1:34pm

I'm not sure about the rest of you but I would have gotten my ASS KICKED by my parents! I am sorry but if a child does that to me I am gonna stop it and I will bring him before you myself and explain. Our society today says You cant do that. Thats CRAP!!! Bring back corporal punishment in schools and lets quit this shitty FEEL GOOD, DONT HURT ANYBODYS FEELINGS society. Its not working and I am willing to bet that those of us who say that we would kick our kids asses for something like this have kids that KNOW what would happen if they did something like this and th kids in question probably DONT have parents that would kick thier asses.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Drk^Angel on May 27^th, 2005, 4:42pm

Seems to me, when I was in school, they did have corporal punishment in schools... And it seems to me, when I was in school, it didn't matter (and by the way... Hitting a kid across the head, throwing him around, and slamming him down isn't corporal punishment...) Hitting someone else's child does not make that child less likely to act up... If anything, it makes matters worse. When an adult slaps around someone else's child, the child does not see it as punishment, they see it as an attack, and responds as such. It's not because of any feel good, don't hurt anybodys feelings society... It's because it's just plain wrong.

Anyone who thinks the bus driver was justified in what he did, just consider something... After seeing what this driver did and how he acted, consider... What if that kid... No matter how much you may think the kid needs a good smack for acting the way he did... What if that kid was your kid? What if that was your kid being smacked around by an adult who is basically a stranger to you... Would you still think the driver did good and is such a great guy? Now... What if that kid was you when you were that age? What if it was you being smacked around by someone more than three times your age, and twice your weight... In front of your friends, maybe even your girlfriend... Smacked around by someone who is supposed to be responsible for your well being for a small, but neccesary part of your day... How would that make you feel? Do you really think it would have taught you anything? Do you really think you could've respected anyone in authority again after that sort of violation? I doubt it. But then again... People rarely ever know how they would react to something, unless they have to live through it themselves.

Then again, I'm biased... You're right... Bring back capital punishment in schools... It'll cure all of society's problems.

PFDAN..................................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Jonny on May 27^th, 2005, 5:01pm

Well, it seems to me that the problem here is a kid saying to a parent "Hit me and I will call the cops for child abuse"

Its already been said here that the kids have that power and thats the truth......Back in the day my old man told me once to knock it off....then BAM!!...if I did it agin.

Today if you cant get the kid to respect you how the hell are they going to respect other adults?

Im not talking about bashing a kid in the head for any reason...I think you all know what im talking about.

The parents of those kids in that video ought to be slapped upside the head for not raising them right....and the bus driver ought to slapped upside the head twice for not having a fucking brain.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by yikes-another-one on May 27^th, 2005, 6:55pm

Even a 1-year old can tell when they are pushing the limits. oh they will try, but you see them watching out of the corner of their eye....to see, if they can get away with it.

Psychologist say if they get caught 100% of the time,
consistantly....then they give up trying after a while,
feeling there is no use....mom's got eyes in the back of her head....whatever.

If they get caught less than 25% of the time, they don't try it often, because the game is no fun. They feel ignored and free to do whatever they want, so why get into trouble when there are other things out there to play with....like matches.

If, it is inconsitant with no rhyme or reason, and they get caught sporadically....they will continually try to act out....just to figure out what the rules are, and how they change on Mondays or Saturdays....with all the young parents out there, moody and childish themselves....and all the single parents out there...tired and worn out both mentally and physically.... more and more are getting inconsistant signols and are testing the limints trying to find out what the rules are, why they work for some kids and not for others...and where they fit into this great big thing we call "life on Planet Earth." It's no wonder....

But still, even though the actions can make you grit your teeth and yell, "Sit down because I said so"

In this day and age, we know that concrete learning is
the kind that lasts. tying a consequence to an action.
"sit down or else you will walk home" is a justifyable
threat, only if you really can drop the kid on the shoulder of the road.

I think the best response
would have been to stay at the wheel, but how do you get him to calm down and become quiet?

USed to be they could back down a bully, asking,
"do you wnat your mom to ride the bus with you tomorrow?" but in this day and age, that would never sit well...it would be a degrading comment....

Hard situation. Bad judgement, but what is the solution?

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by mynm156 on May 27^th, 2005, 8:01pm

my point is that this child should ALREADY know to keep his mouth shut and do what as he was told by as it was put "someone who is supposed to be responsible for your well being". I never said the bus driver was a great guy. However, if you think that what kid did was ok then maybe you should watch this again. If someone attacks me I am gonna fight back However, I am not gonna GIVE someone a reason to attack me. If they choose to on thier own then its go time baby. I am not sure about you guys but when I was in school things like that didnt happen because we knew it was wrong. It could lead to all kinds of trouble. Getting kicked off the bus, kicked out of school not to mention the fact that my parents would have ended my life and guess what? I never did any of that because I respected my parents and yes feared thier wrath. It only took a couple of good spankings when my kids where young and guess what NONE of them act up and nor do there friends. They respect me, I respect them but they know what right and wrong are and what will happen if they cross the line. These days there are too many kids out there that dont seem to respect themselves much less anyone else. They have nothing to fear and when I say fear I dont just mean punishment. The fear that they will disappoint thier parents with thier actions.
This is a bummer thing to watch and the bus driver should have just waited for the cops to show up.

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Ree on May 27^th, 2005, 9:04pm

on 05/27/05 at 18:55:40, yikes-another-one wrote:

very hard situation I agree with your anology in the beginning of this post and know it from experience with toddlers..... It seems like this had been going on for a while.... the kids were out of control. I woulda died if I heard my kid on National TV, internet etc..... over and over talking to another adult like that..... oh and if he made them walk the parents would have bitched about that, possible law suit, todays world what if the kid got abducted or hit by a car or got a blister..... Dealing with parents today is a no win situation. I have had to expel kids from my group, because the parents refuse to accept that there are consequences for negative behaviour. Thats how I found that most times its the parents fault when a kid misbehaves.... A kid doesnt learn to talk like that just walking accross the street. He heard his parents talk like that to one another. He has seen another adult disrespected. I find in my work with kids of all ages there is a certain lack of respect because there is no fear of consequence. At most what will happen to those kids.... slap on the hand... mommy will have to drive them... maybe a few days off from school... But the bus driver.... he probably lost his job....will go to court and have a record for hitting a kid.

I think in any situation kid or adult....if you attack or hit another human you had better be ready to deal with getting smacked back..... the end....
ree

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by Drk^Angel on May 28^th, 2005, 7:30am

mynm... Scroll up... I said the kids involved should be expelled... Let the parents deal with them... And I don't just mean the one being slapped around... I also mean the one that the driver was calling to the front, and any that were inciting the confrontation. The kids deserve to get their asses kicked, but that is not the right of the driver. If they won't follow the rules, have them removed so that others won't be influenced. Eventually the parents will have to seek ways of fixing the problem, or give up and let them fail.

As I said before... Expell the kids involved, fire the driver, fine the driver with probation, and report the driver to the governing board (if it exists)... The parents should deal with the kids, take responsibility, and not sue the school. Seems like a fair solution. Or they could just expell the kids, fire the driver, and let the parents kick the shit out of the driver... But I doubt the parents would actually get that involved with their children.

PFDAN.................................... Drk^Angel

Title: Re: Justified or not?
Post by don on May 28^th, 2005, 8:54am

Quote:

But I doubt the parents would actually get that involved with their children.

You said a mouthful there.