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        New Message Board Archives >> 2005 General Board Posts >> Why not Vicodin??
        
(Message started by: giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 7:00am)
Title: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 7:00am
I'v been taking Vicodin for 5 days now and have been pf except for Sat. morning and that's because I didn't take one before I went to bed. I take one at 9pm and another at 9am,  and only a hint of a shadow every now and then. Can anyone give me a reason not to take this.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by marty on May 16th, 2005, 7:29am
Hi

The only reason not to take it would be the addiction factor. Your body will get used to the meds and may require higher doses. By taking it on a set time ever day you may at least develop a psychological dependency.

But if you feel that it is helping, then it is your decision. Vicodin, Fioracet (never knew how to spell that) etc, never touched my CH but I understand that many are taking Vicodin and alike.

Wishing you pain free days and nights.

Marty
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by BarbaraD on May 16th, 2005, 7:39am
The Vicodin can cause rebound headaches in most people. If it's working - go ahead. I take three extra strength Excedrin with a cup of coffee when I know one is going to hit. This sometimes aborts it, but if I do it too often the HAs get worse.

One thing about meds and CH -- it's a crap shoot and we all react differently.

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 7:48am
Pain meds don't work, you need another doc. Sounds like he's given up on you. Its not stopping your Ch, your probably just ending your cycle.

Sean.................................
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 7:53am
The Dr. had me on Depekote er and Ultram for the pain and that worked for a couple years but this cycle seams to be a little more harsh and that cocktail wasn't touching it, I had the Vicodin laying around from a knee injury so I figured what the hell and its been working so far.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 7:59am
If vicodin worked gif I'd be the first to say go for it, but it doesn't. Try another preventative and abortive or o2.

Good news is I think your cycles ending by the sound of it ;;D

Cheers

Sean..............................
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 8:15am
Take a look around this site its very informative.

Thanks Flo ;;D

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=HomePage&PHPSESSID=e05cd9cf578739137e230000a0af1317

Sean................................
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 8:16am
I certainly hope it's ending. I need to drink some beer, thanks for the info. What do you think of the magic shrooms?
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by marty on May 16th, 2005, 8:30am
Shrooms.. :-X

But that's just me :)

Marty
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 8:36am

on 05/16/05 at 07:00:31, giffy76 wrote:
Can anyone give me a reason not to take this.

Addiction, is that a good enough reason not to take it?
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 8:55am
I think addiction is easier to fight than the demon, but like sean_c said My cycle may be ending and that's why it seams to be working so I'm going to get off the vicodin and see what happens
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by don on May 16th, 2005, 8:55am

Quote:
your probably just ending your cycle.


Or the pain is only being masked.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 9:12am
Isn't that what we are trying to do "mask the pain"?
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Candycane on May 16th, 2005, 9:14am

on 05/16/05 at 08:36:21, thomas wrote:
Addiction, is that a good enough reason not to take it?

Exactly!!! Man, I love that stuff! Does nothing for your HA's though ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 9:24am

on 05/16/05 at 09:12:15, giffy76 wrote:
Isn't that what we are trying to do "mask the pain"?

No, we are trying to "eliminate" the pain.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Jimmy_B on May 16th, 2005, 9:27am
I remember when I first started getting these damn headaches, the Doc eventually wrote me a script for Lorcet 10/650. Which is basically the strongest form of vicodin. It didn't even touch my clusters. The only Narc that I've heard and experienced that would touch clusters are Fentanyl (Duragesic) & methadone (something about the NMDA properties of these drugs that help nerve pain, and hence relieve the pain generated from the trigeminal nerve) Both of these are heavy duty drugs and should only be used as a last resort. and of course they only mask the pain.

As for reasons for not taking it.

Large doses of acetaminophen (tylenol) are very dangerous. The lowest Vicodin has 500mg of acetaminophen and the max is 4 grams or 8 pills a day. Some Vicodin has as much as 750mg of acetaminophen in a single pill.

Also there is a strong possibility that you will become dependent and tolerant of the Vicodin, after taking it steadily for a few weeks. You will need larger doses to achieve the same effect & will get ill when you stop taking them and probably need to be weaned from the medication.

There is a very small chance (depending on family and medical history) that you could become completely addicted to the medication. Where you think of nothing else other then ways to get and maintain your supply of vicodin. Whether you need it for pain or not.

Last...doctors are not too keen on writing a script of vicodin for more then a few weeks, so more then likely...your Doc will cut you off of the med before the cluster cycle is done, or if you're chronic...you'll definitely have to look for other ways to relieve your pain.

As was mentioned try all the true & tried ways to fight the beast first.

Good Luck,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 9:47am
Eliminating the pain seems to be a never ending battle with these bastsards becuase something that worked last cycle isn't working this round, than I get pissed off and find something that "masks" the pain and wait for my cycle to end. It's the lesser of two evils, on one hand some meds aren't good for you and on the other these f----ing CHs aren't doing me any good
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Jimmy_B on May 16th, 2005, 9:53am
I would never razz anyone for their use of anything to stop (or yes...even mask) the pain of clusters.

If it works for you...more power to you. I wish I could find something that would work for me.

But it's good to be informed of the pros & cons of any medication before you begin to use it.

Good Luck Gif
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 9:55am
I agree, it is a never ending battle, that is why we are here.  THere are centuries of combined beast combat experience at your finger tips here.  A wealth of knowledge and experience shared freely with compassion and understanding.  
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 9:56am

on 05/16/05 at 09:53:20, Jimmy_B wrote:
I would never razz anyone for their use of anything to stop (or yes...even mask) the pain of clusters.

I'm not razzing, he asked a question, I gave him my answer.  If you still think I'm razzing him, see my post above.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 10:01am
I don't think of it as razzing, it seems to be a close knit family here and family offers constructive criticism, if majority rules that Vicodin can do more harm than good, I'm not going to take it
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 10:06am
It doesn't work gif, not even at high doses. Morphine doesn't work either. Believe us, we've been there.

Sean.................................
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 10:14am
At times I think I know more than my neuro. What Meds work the best for guys? script or no script
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 10:19am
I do the pred taper for a preventative which has its ups and downs. For an abortive I use Imitrex and o2 at 15 LPM. I also use about 6 ice gel packs to rub on my head. That usually kicks his ass, how about you?

Sean...................................
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 10:37am
I do Depekote ER for prev. and I chew 50-150 mg of Ultram for abortive and that don't taste to good, it has worked in the past but not this time.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by don on May 16th, 2005, 10:52am

Quote:
At times I think I know more than my neuro


You just might. Not unussual to hear that. If you dont then you probably will after reading all the stuff on this site.

Personally, narcs trigger an attack for me.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Bob P on May 16th, 2005, 10:56am

Quote:
Doc eventually wrote me a script for Lorcet 10/650
Same here.  Norco #10.  Won't even touch a cluster.  In fact, the first Kip10 of this cycle is due to the Norco.  Took one to get rid of some shadows.  It masked the beginning of an attack but once the attack got going the Norco did nothing to hid it and it was too late for the O2 or anything else to stop it.  Sweet Jesus that hurt!
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 10:59am

on 05/16/05 at 10:56:18, Bob P wrote:
it was too late for the O2 or anything else to stop it.  Sweet Jesus that hurt!


I just got a chill ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by giffy76 on May 16th, 2005, 11:16am
So it appears that o2 is the shit. do you have to hall around a tank every time you go out, does it work by itself or do you have to use another abortive with it?
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 11:20am
We're all different gif but o2 works great for me, but I've never used it soley as an abortive.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 11:23am
Usually have a tank with me when in cycle.  I use the O2 first, if it isn't doing the trick, then I pop a zomig.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Kim Y. on May 16th, 2005, 11:30am

Quote:
4 grams
of tylenol or 4000mg.  Liver damage is a problem if you exceed this in a 24 hr period over time....
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Jimmy_B on May 16th, 2005, 12:11pm

on 05/16/05 at 09:56:19, thomas wrote:
I'm not razzing, he asked a question, I gave him my answer.  If you still think I'm razzing him, see my post above.


Thomas,

I wasn't talking about anyone that posted...and it definitely  was not directed at your post. I was speaking in general terms.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 12:27pm

on 05/16/05 at 12:11:45, Jimmy_B wrote:
Thomas,

I wasn't talking about anyone that posted...and it definitely  was not directed at your post. I was speaking in general terms.

No harm, no foul.  Just wanted to be clear that I am not in the business of giving people a hard time over their medication choices.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Tiannia on May 16th, 2005, 12:31pm
I am a walking pharmacy, because of back issues and other such things.  Not one of the meds that I carry around 24/7 touch CH. I know cause I tried when these frist started.  I felt stupid and loopy cause of the pain meds but still fucking hurt.  That was almost 2 years ago.  Still have the pain meds but if it is a Cluster hitting I dont even think of them as an option anymore to "see if it will work this time" cause I KNOW it wont.  

Try the O2, see if it works. It works for some and not others.  Some it will lessen the pain so that you can fight it others it aborts.  Each cluster is a struggle.  Who knows what will work for who.  Wish there was an easy fix but alas there does not seem to be one.

Good Luck, but I'd talk to your neuro and take lots of info from this site as back up to what you are saying.  

Good Luck and PF Wishes,
-Tia
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 12:50pm

on 05/16/05 at 12:27:05, thomas wrote:
No harm, no foul.  Just wanted to be clear that I am not in the business of giving people a hard time over their medication choices.


When it comes to narcotics you might be doing them a favor, they don't benefit us at all. Don't short change yourself, you did nothing wrong bro.

Sean.......................
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Linda_Howell on May 16th, 2005, 1:04pm

When I first started reading your post I figured all you wanted was  justification for taking the narcs.  I can be a cynical B...  sometimes.  ;)

Then you said,    
Quote:
if majority rules that Vicodin can do more harm than good, I'm not going to take it
  and I came to the conclusion you are a smart guy after all.

Gif, I've been chronic for 18 years now and of course I tried the heavy narcs at first.  (for about a month)

   They DO cause rebounds.
   They DO cause addiction.
   They DO NOT help, mask, or eliminate cluster headaches.   Period.

(Y'all knew I had to get into this thread didn't you?  ;) )


Linda
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 1:08pm

on 05/16/05 at 12:50:45, Sean_C wrote:
When it comes to narcotics you might be doing them a favor, they don't benefit us at all. Don't short change yourself, you did nothing wrong bro.

Sean.......................

Thanks, just not in the mood for a pissing match today.  I know, I know, what did I do with the REAL thomas?  ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by sandie99 on May 16th, 2005, 1:09pm

on 05/16/05 at 08:30:09, marty wrote:
Shrooms.. :-X

But that's just me :)

Marty

I agree.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 1:10pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:09:26, sandie99 wrote:

Quote:
Shrooms..  

But that's just me  

Marty

I agree.

They are just like any other preventive.  They work for some people and don't for others.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 1:12pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:08:23, thomas wrote:
Thanks, just not in the mood for a pissing match today.  I know, I know, what did I do with the REAL thomas?  ;;D


Damn Christians [smiley=curtain.gif]

Sean..................  ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by sandie99 on May 16th, 2005, 1:18pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:10:54, thomas wrote:
They are just like any other preventive.  They work for some people and don't for others.

That's the trouble... one pain, different heads...  :-/
It would be grand if one med would do the trick for all of us! :)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 1:20pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:12:46, Sean_C wrote:
Damn Christians [smiley=curtain.gif]

Sean..................  ;;D

Ohhhh boy.  Now don't even go there.  ;)  Thou shalt not tempt me mortal!  ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Tiannia on May 16th, 2005, 1:20pm
That would be nice.  Guess we can keep wishing for that and keep trying other things while we wait to find it.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 1:23pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:20:10, thomas wrote:
Ohhhh boy.  Now don't even go there.  ;)  Thou shalt not tempt me mortal!  ;;D


LMAO I wouldn't dare ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 1:24pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:23:39, Sean_C wrote:
LMAO I wouldn't dare ;;D

It would be nice if every one was as smart as you.  ;)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by don on May 16th, 2005, 1:31pm

Quote:
It would be nice if every one was as smart as you


And then there is me.


Quote:
what did I do with the REAL thomas?  


Sent him to Queer Eye for the Straight Guy? Not as a contestant either.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by sandie99 on May 16th, 2005, 1:33pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:31:59, don wrote:
Sent him to Queer Eye for the Straight Guy? Not as a contestant either.

[smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 1:34pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:31:59, don wrote:
And then there is me.  Yes no one ever accused you of being overly intelligent.


Sent him to Queer Eye for the Straight Guy? Not as a contestant either.  Camera man, and I've got some valuable footage of you, don is "best boy grip" on that show, for those of you who don't read the credits.  
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Slammy on May 16th, 2005, 2:03pm
Giffy,

There's been some good advice on the thread, but I want to summarize because it is that good.

1.  Vicodin can, at best, mask the pain.  At worse, cause rebounds or affect the ability of abortives to work.

2. We are trying to prevent, and abort the clusters.. not mask them.

3.  Some abortives work for some people, and are not as effective for others.... find the ones that work for you.


For me.... Cafergot works the best as an abortive.  O2 works great at home.  I go for the cafergot first, then the O2 to make sure.  Nothing helps when you wake up in the middle of the night in full episode.... though I still go after the O2.

I use Verapamil (320mg) a day as a preventative.... because the clusters come and go, I'm not sure how this is working.



Slammy   8)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 2:10pm

on 05/16/05 at 13:31:59, don wrote:
And then there is me.


I didn't think Dorchester High went to grade twelve. ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 2:14pm

on 05/16/05 at 14:10:50, Sean_C wrote:
I didn't think Dorkmolester High went to grade twelve. ;;D

WOW not that is just cold, Sean.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by don on May 16th, 2005, 2:28pm
Youse guyz are just sooooo abusive.

Now I need vibes and prayers.
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 2:33pm

on 05/16/05 at 14:28:56, don wrote:
Now I need vibes and prayers.

You've needed them for a long time.  Thinking of you big boy.  Nothing but the best coming your way.  Just remember somewhere out there, some one loves you.  :-*
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by sandie99 on May 16th, 2005, 2:38pm

on 05/16/05 at 14:28:56, don wrote:
Youse guyz are just sooooo abusive.

Now I need vibes and prayers.

Vibes & prayers for ya, Don... :)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by LeLimey on May 16th, 2005, 2:40pm

on 05/16/05 at 14:33:57, thomas wrote:
You've needed them for a long time.  Thinking of you big boy.  Nothing but the best coming your way.  Just remember somewhere out there, some one loves you.  :-*


But in here we all think you are a putz

Not really Don!! You know I worship the ground you walk on  ;)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by thomas on May 16th, 2005, 2:46pm

on 05/16/05 at 14:40:57, LeLimey wrote:
Not really Don!! You know I worship the ground you walk on  ;)

Oh Gawd Helen!!!!!! Do NOT encourage him!  It's like feeding the bears at the National park!  ::)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by don on May 16th, 2005, 2:48pm

Quote:
It's like feeding the bears at the National park!  


ROFLMMFAO!

Thomas and Sean used to take a lot of narcs. Look what happened to them.

Helen is an extremely intelligent woman. (For a Brit)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Charlie on May 16th, 2005, 3:01pm

Quote:
Pain meds don't work,


For CH? It's like trying to knock out an elephant with a peanut.

Vicodin, with all that acetaminophen is no doubt pretty rough on your liver as well.

This isn't addictive:

Dr. Wright’s Circulatory Technique:

What follows is a technique learned from a neurologist:
I am not sure what mechanism is triggered by this but whatever it is, at least indirectly helps kill the pain. I do know that this technique has nothing to do with meditation, relaxation, or psychic ability. It is entirely physical and takes some work. It involves concentrating on trying to redirect a little circulation to the arms, hands, or legs. It can described as a conscious circulatory flexing. Increased circulation will result in a reddening and warming of the hands. Try to think of it as filling your hands with redirected blood. The important and difficult part is that it has to be done without interruption through the pain. Do not give up in frustration. It may not work on the first try. Every now and then it will work almost immediately. I lived for those moments. Try experimenting between attacks. You will find that it gets easier with practice.

I was given less than five minutes instruction in the use of method. The doctor, while placing his arm on his desk, showed me that he could slightly increase his arm and hand circulation. After several attempts, I was able to repeat this procedure and use it successfully. I have had about a 75% success rate shortening these attacks. My 20 minute attacks were often reduced to 10 minutes or less. Once proven that I had a chance to effectively deal with this horror, I always gave it a try as I had nothing to lose but pain.

Perhaps it will help if you think of it as trying to fill the arm as if it is were an empty vessel. I used to try to imagine I was pushing blood away from my head into my arm. Use your imagination. There is one man who wrote that his standing barefoot on a concrete floor shortened his attacks. This may be similar as it draws some circulation away from the head. Cold water, exercise, or anything affecting circulation, seems to be worth a try. My suggestion is to not let up immediately when the pain goes. Waiting a minute is probably a good idea. So long as you do not slack off, this has a chance of working.

This technique is very useful while waiting for medication to take effect or when none is available. It costs nothing, is non-invasive, and can be used just about anywhere. It is not a miracle but it helped me deal with this horror. It can be a bit exhausting but the success rate was good enough for me and a cluster headache sufferer will do just about anything to end the pain. It gives us a fighting chance.

I hope this technique is helpful and I wish you the best of luck

Charlie      
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Sean_C on May 16th, 2005, 3:11pm

on 05/16/05 at 14:14:34, thomas wrote:
WOW not that is just cold, Sean.


LMMFAO he was totally uneffected Thomas, it only makes him stronger ;;D
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by Linda_Howell on May 16th, 2005, 3:37pm


   Another important thread shot to hell, all because Don is    
Quote:
a putz



     [smiley=smokin.gif]

Linda
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by don on May 16th, 2005, 4:51pm
Hijacks -R-Us !  8)
Title: Re: Why not Vicodin??
Post by cootie on May 16th, 2005, 8:48pm
CH is an abusive disease from what all I have seen....but I can't see Vicoden even touchin it. I also have back issues and got stronger stuff then that and it barely touches the pain.......morphine is nasty.......guess peukin makes ya forget a little bit of pain while doin it. Plus ya'd not want to go thru a cycle DAILY takein narcs then try to quit.....you'd be so sick and strung out it'd set ya back for a while. Couldn't it also lengthen a cycle ? Have read on here that surgery's have kicked people back into cycle early or made theres longer or worse cuz of the meds and anesthsia. Thoughts of a straight girl with no queer eyes Pam


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