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Title: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by marty on May 5th, 2005, 4:39pm http://palominoleather.com/IMG_6917.JPG Any dog specialists out there? I rescued this dog a week ago from the pound. She is three years old, very nice and friendly and fun to be around EXCEPT >:( she will not do her business outside.. I can take her out for up to three hours and she will not go, after we get back in she will leave a big pile at any chance she gets when I am not looking. Tuesday evening, I took her out at 9:00 PM and she did nothing. I went to bed and thunder and rain woke me up at 03:15 AM and I went to make coffe.. only to find the darned pile on her sleeping pad and the dog laying next to it on the floor... I just hate to have to return this dog since that most likely means that she will be put down. Any suggestions?? I have had dogs for most of my life and always been able to handle these problems but now I am up against a brick wall here - I guess this is the reason that she was at the pound. Marty |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by thomas on May 5th, 2005, 4:53pm Have you rubbed her nose in it and then thrown her outside? |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Mr. Happy on May 5th, 2005, 4:55pm Sounds like poochie may be suffering from abandonment syndrome from the past owner. No need to put the dog down, Marty. A little Operant - Respondant conditioning is all that's needed. My dog left a pile of steamish on the floor every day. When I got home, I'd stick his nose in it, then throw him out the window. After only 10 days of this, I'd walk thru the door, the dog would run over, cram his nose in the steamish, then jump out the window by himself. Definite progress. RJ |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Margi on May 5th, 2005, 4:59pm Yeah, I agree - she's not sure yet that she's not gonna get bounced again, poor darlin. My mum also rescued a shelter dog and she did the same thing. It just took time and patience for Patches to "get it" and now she's real good. One thing you could try is a kennel/cage at night - most dogs won't poop where they sleep and if she feels the urge, she'll HAVE to tell you that she needs out. Then, praise her up to no end when she does it right. If she's got a good temperment, that's a real good indicator that she really WANTS to be a good girl and to please you. You just have to show her HOW to please you and then reinforce it when she does. I dunno - personally, I hate the kennel idea but we've been blessed to find our canine children when they were babies so we were able to lay the ground rules from day one. Keep us posted! |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by marty on May 5th, 2005, 5:04pm I have tried to rub her noose in it but she is terrified of getting close to it - she does not try to bite me or anything but really screams and lays down flat on the floor. I have a feeling that she has been through this "treatment" before and that it somehow backfired. When I lead aher toward what she has done, she feels guilty (you can tell on a GS very easy if they are uncomfortable). At times, I think that it may be some physical problem but she is not sensitive in her stomach area or anywhere else and she is playful and moves without any signs of pain, internal or external. She eats enough, not a lot but enough for a dog her size and she is "regular" and does her business every day. Most of the time, she will pee outside but not always. Marty |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by LeLimey on May 5th, 2005, 5:09pm My Beagle came from a shelter too and he was the same. He used to only go in the bedroom which was revolting! I fed him and took him out for a walk immediately and kept him out until he went then praised him effusively and rewarded him. 37 packets of biscuits later he got the idea!! No seriously it didn't take that long. He too expected to be punished for it every time.A year later though he is simply the best dog ever in the history of MY world and I wouldn't part with him for anything. He was worth the effort, patience and even the squishy feeling when you suddenly find out where he did go..! |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by marty on May 5th, 2005, 5:10pm Maggie Like you I don't like the kennel idea so I have a small room (used to be a dining area) with a linoleum floor where I keep her and our 4-month old puppy at night. They have everything that they can wish for with toys and plenty of soft "stuff" to sleep on. It is like a kids room, only made for dogs :D I think and hope taht you are right and that this is just a phase she is going through with a new place and all and I do praise her on the few occasions taht she has actually gone outside. I have a pocket full of Beggin Strips and she knows it and I only give it to her when she goes. Marty |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Svenn on May 5th, 2005, 5:12pm Marty This you cant teach her to do that outside overnight.She is to old for that. You need a LOT of patients wich the way i feel i know you you have plenty of She is a beauty definitive. Like Margi so well said it. You dont really know what happend before you got in to her life. You definatly need to give her time my friend and a lot of it Svenn |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Margi on May 5th, 2005, 5:12pm aww :( sounds like she's had a bumpy ride before you rescued her, Marty, and that she needs you to build up her confidence. She's a gorgeous dog, btw. I guarantee you that if you can find the patience with her until she figures out what's what, she'll pay you back one hundred fold. Maybe even pick up the pile in a dustpan and take it - and her - outside to where she should be doing it. Show her where it goes. Maybe she just doesn't understand. After all - you and your family poop in the house. Maybe she doesn't realize she's not a people. ;) What's a little poo between friends, right? Dogs are very proud of their poo and they don't exactly understand why we humans don't share that pride. |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by pattik on May 5th, 2005, 5:13pm Marty, If you have the time, check out the different archive links on the Wisconsin Public Radio link below. Patricia McConnell is a pet behaviorist who I listen to almost every weekend. And on almost every show, someone calls in with your very problem. These shows are archived all the way back to November 2004, so if you want to take the time to listen, I'm certain that you will hear some good advice from her. You can also listen to this show live on your computer on Saturdays at 7:00 a.m. and at noon central time. Hope you can find a solution. Have patience ;;D Pat http://wpr.org/webcasting/ideas_audioarchives.cfm?Code=cap |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by marty on May 5th, 2005, 5:39pm Thanks Y'all I will check on the radio links. It is just frustrating but I am not going to give up. It's just that, like today, she went early this morning and have not gone since. I take her out twice every hour and she just stands on parade next to me even though I totally ignore her. When she is inside she is constantly close and will not leave my side. It is only when I leave to go to the store or something that she goes. We'll see, it will work out and I am very patient and I have no intentions on giving up. I just thought that among all of you there must be many that knows a lot more about dogs than I do and why not take advantage of that knowledge if offered :) Marty |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by pattik on May 5th, 2005, 5:43pm One thing I do know, is that when she does go for you outside, be sure to have a tasty treat ready to give her along with profuse praise the second she does what you want her to do. Treats are a great training tool. Also giving her a little treat just before you go out the door might get things going (if you know what I mean). ;;D Give us an update with your progress, if you would. |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Jonny on May 5th, 2005, 5:44pm Four foot steak with eyelet top drivinin into the ground, ten foot chain and a doghouse. Problem solved! |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Margi on May 5th, 2005, 5:49pm Marty, one thing that has really worked well for us - we've always had big dogs too - is to lay right down on the floor with them. Get her to lay on her side and put your arm over her. It's a dog psychology thing. Just quiet time. She needs to realize that it's ok to relax. From what you describe, she's totally "on duty" in your presence and it's only when you're not there that she relaxes (and maybe realizes that "OMG I have to GO!! :o Now that Boss is gone, I can finally GO!! At that point, she probably doesn't care where). But if you can teach her to relax and be confident in her presence, that might help a lot. You have to win her trust. Laying down with her really helps with that. You're the Alpha Dog and if you bring yourself down to her level, it makes her realize that it's ok for her to relax around you and that she doesn't have to be on duty all the time. Give her a pat for us! And a cookie. Sometimes cookies for nuthin really helps build that bond too! |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by marty on May 5th, 2005, 5:51pm Jonny I think that I would keep that 4 foot steak and give the chain and dog house to the dog ;;D Seriously, I can't do that since we live in the country and when I am gone, I want something to guard the house. When I am at home it is okay since my good friend Remington 44 is doing that job. Maybe I could teach the dog (her name is Ginger by the way) to load black powder [smiley=huh.gif] A Remington & Ginger would beat a Smith & Wesson anytime ;;D Marty |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by firebrix on May 5th, 2005, 6:08pm This is quite typical behaviour for a dog that's stressed Marty. We can have no idea what she's been through and it will take a while before she feels secure and part of your family/pack. Some dogs pooh to "mark their territory" and this might be her (odd, sure) way to tell you she wants to stay. She is beautiful and worth any work you'll put in to fix this minor problem, believe me. BTDT. I wouldn't rub her nose in it. YUK! That's a myth and it obviously doesn't work. What I would do is buy a bottle of cloudy ammonia and clean the soiled areas with that. Some people soak paper towel in ammonia and place these where the pooh was. Talk to her very quietly so she has to listen. Whisper. It's less threatening and she'll "have her ears on" every time you talk to her. Dogs sniff before they go. Look for signs of sniffing and take her out immediately. She'll only have to get it right and see you're happy about her doing her business outside a few times and she'll never do this again. She may have been an "apartment dog" who never got outdoors and was encouraged to go indoors. Try placing a thick newspaper near the door and if she uses this overnight don't react, but place it outside on the lawn. (where it's supposed to be) Keep doing this and encouraging her to go out. In time, you'll be able to put the paper on the grass and she might go there. I have LOTS of tricks for odd animal behaviour and am happy to offer any help I can give you cos any dog saved from death is all good. IM me if I can help. Don't give up at this early stage even tho' some mornings, it will be tempting. Be consistent, calm and non-threatening. Carrots work better than stix. Wow she's beautiful. (but I can see she's just a little nervous) You'll be the winner in the long run. German Shepherds are SO clever. Staunch defenders and what a sense of humour they have! Good luck |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Ueli on May 5th, 2005, 7:24pm I'm rather a cat man and don't understand much of dogs, but maybe the trick I used on Jupi will work for a dog too. Jupi started to pee on my bed once or twice a night. My sister told me a trick that had worked on her cat. It's so ridiculous and silly that I laughed at it, the same y'all all be laughing soon [smiley=laugh.gif]. But I tied it anyway, and it worked! With a felt marker I wrote on a large sheet of paper: "No pissing here!" and put it on the bed. Success! No more peeing on the bed ever since, and after a week the 'instructions' were no longer needed. Try it out, minimal cost and it might work. Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by purpleydog on May 5th, 2005, 7:25pm on 05/05/05 at 17:04:27, marty wrote:
You don't want to rub her nose in it, she doesn't like it anymore than you do, and it won't teach her anything except to get used to being near her waste, and to fear you. Her laying down flat is a submissive response. A trip to the vet wouldn't hurt, to rule out an internal problem. Keep her on a leash in the house, let it hang, but keep her near you, and take her out when she starts looking around. Also, take her out at the same times every day as much as possible. First thing in the morning, after breakfast, middle of the day, dinner, and in the evening once or twice. And when you take her out, instead of just standing there, take her for a short walk, that helps to get things moving sometimes. Also, when she is ready to "go", give her a command, such as "hurry up", or "do your business", or something like that. Soon, she will equate the command with actually doing it, and that will help. Be patient, she will eventually catch on. It sounds like she's had a rough life. She just wants to please you. She just needs a little training is all. Praise is important. Treats help. :) To help clean up any messes, there is a product called Nature's Miracle. It is sold online and in pet stores. It has enzymes in it, and it will remove the odor left behind when your pet has an accident. It really works, too, I have two dogs (both 11 yrs old) and 2 cats, LOL. We crate trained our dogs, and obedience trained our dogs, and they are the best dogs you could ask for. We used the crates for almost 2 years, then put them away. Also, there is a great dog training book called Good Dogs Great Owners by Brian Kilcommons. There is a lot of good advice on how to handle your dog, and various problems in that book. It helped us immensely. |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Jonny on May 5th, 2005, 7:34pm on 05/05/05 at 19:25:48, purpleydog wrote:
HEY!!!! Thats my wife your talking about.....LMMFAO ;;D |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by purpleydog on May 5th, 2005, 7:37pm on 05/05/05 at 19:34:59, Jonny wrote:
Funny, she said just the opposite. ;) ;;D |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Jonny on May 5th, 2005, 7:44pm on 05/05/05 at 19:37:05, purpleydog wrote:
Its a hate/hate relationship.....sue me ;;D |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by BlueMeanie on May 5th, 2005, 7:44pm on 05/05/05 at 17:10:20, marty wrote:
Marty, The best way, is to get a training cage from a pet store. Putting your dog in a room gives it too much freedom to go wherever it wants. The cage has to be small enough so the dog cannot move around. Believe me, it sounds cruel, but the dog won't mind and will get used to it. At night or when you're away, "it won't go". Dogs do not go where they have to sleep and the cage is too small for the crap and the dog. When it does have to go, it will cry for you to let it out. Then you simply let it outdoors directly from the cage. You can then praise the dog for doing good. After awhile it will no longer need the cage. It only took a couple of weeks on any of the dogs i've trained. Good Luck. Sooner or later the dog will get it right. |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Jonny on May 5th, 2005, 7:49pm on 05/05/05 at 19:44:57, BlueMeanie wrote:
That wont be hard seeing that the dog is a three year old German shepard, Blue......LOL ;;D |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by purpleydog on May 5th, 2005, 8:00pm Make sure the crate is big enough for the dog to lay in lengthwise comfortably, though. Don't want it to be too small. Should have just enough room so the dog can turn around and lay down. It should be as long as the dog, or a few inches longer. (Quiet Jonny :-* .) |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Jonny on May 5th, 2005, 8:15pm on 05/05/05 at 20:00:09, purpleydog wrote:
Ok :-X |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by don on May 5th, 2005, 8:22pm Quote:
Dont listen to this guy. He lived on the third floor. Bastard. |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by cootie on May 5th, 2005, 9:16pm This is goin to be a LONG one....sorry guys but it's sorta complicated. I have a dog kennel.......and your dog was probly raised in a small pen or crate or some sort or small room and it was probly NOT cleaned up regularly.....I mean daily or twice a day "or" better yet every time she went type cleaning. She has learned to just do what we call....DROP AND GO......she may of been raised or kept in a small area so she never really learned to sniff and go first or be particular cuz she had no choice but to go where she layed or close by it.....or IN IT cuz it got so bad and not or never cleaned. Problem with this is that BAD HABITS are hard to break. She may of lived this way for a few years or most of her life.....may of been a filthy pen or area. Possible she had room but the area was NEVER cleaned as a young dog so crap and pee piled up everywhere and she never learned to be CHOOSEY where she went. That is usually the reason for this type of problem. Same thing can happen with animals raised on grate flooring in big kennels or setups.....even tho it is cleaner in the long run to raise them that way if you have a LARGE AMOUNT of animals and they are not running around in there own crap they still NEVER learn to be particular where they go cuz it falls thru the grate or wire bottom and poof it's gone so they don't care where they go cuz it is never under foot. Like I said animals bad habits can start young and if left go they become there only habit of doin things. They can't always anylize what they are doing even tho they themselves don't like being IN IT. But for her to go so close to her bed and in her bed.....she was raised in a bad or dirty enviorment and she is acting on habits learned. She can't think of it as bad.....cuz it was how she is used to it. Hard to get things like that out of an animal. You need to clean the area with deodroizers where she goes PRONTO....you need to get the bed washed RITE AWAY or out of the area and clean new one set down and wash the other or none at all....maybe just a folded up blanket easier to wash. Keep that up till she is more used to CLEAN surroundings....and scold her when she has been bad.....if you can get her to go outside praise her and treat her. You may need to leave her outside longer....or for longer periods and watch her like a HAWK in the house and if you catch her going on the floor TAKE HER OUTSIDE and leave her in a nice outside run or pen. You will have to work at createing GOOD habits until she gets the picture. That may take a while. Some dogs will 'hold it' while in a crate all day long while you work.....but since she has things MIXED UP she is holding it while outside cuz she is only used to going where she sleeps or lives. Too bad tho cuz I know how frustrateing it is but she KNOWS NO BETTER then what she is doing now. But leaveing the blanket or mess on the floor to her is HOME SWEET HOME.....gotta do some reverse phycology and clean it up (which I am sure you do) QUICK. You may need to keep her in a smaller crate or kennel cage at nite also or 'outside' and bring her in for every hour or two at a time then back outside to stay.....oppsosite of normal where you let them out every hour or so. Then she can learn to go to the bathroom where she lives.....outside.....then slowly try to keep her inside longer. Good luck......24 hour poop scooper Pam |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by marty on May 5th, 2005, 9:40pm Thanks guys I have a lot to work with and I am sure that sooner or later she will get the picture. I am a little bit hesitant about the crate but thinking about it, makes me realize that it is a lot easier to clean a crate than it is to step in something and then have to clean a lot more than just a crate :o Marty |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by medic1852 on May 5th, 2005, 9:44pm Duct tape will fix most anything have you tried that? Cant hurt. ::) |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by stevegeebe on May 5th, 2005, 9:58pm Keep the dog outside. We have adopted two strays and we installed an invisable fence. Just under a grand for an acre. We have trained them to crap in the forest in the back part of the property. We love our dogs and they know they are the dogs. Steve G |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by cootie on May 5th, 2005, 10:00pm Crate training is HIGHLY recommended in the world of dog kennels....dogs are den animals so they do NOT feel imprison'd......but if an animal is doing something bad it is sumtimes the only way to contain it and the problem and start over or at least stop the behavior in your liveing space of the house. Dog doors are cool and the animal learn to love goin out on it's own so much it can really help reverse some bad habits (dog door that goes into a FENCED IN AREA OR YARD only.....not cool to let em run loose). But I have a problem with big dog doors for that size of dog cuz PEOPLE can get in thru them. Had a few big doors like that at the kennel I worked at and we did have some problems with someone gettin into the house doing WIERD SHIT and we think it was thru the dog door. (a strange wierdo neighbor) Sounds like the dog has GOOD OWNER with patience.....lucky for her.....she's a beautiful dog too. There's only bad owners not bad dogs Pam (I dare to differ with that old saying tho) |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by Sean_C on May 5th, 2005, 10:04pm on 05/05/05 at 16:55:03, Mr. Happy wrote:
ROTFLMMFAO [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by don on May 5th, 2005, 10:07pm http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/bgull2/cork2.jpg |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by purpleydog on May 5th, 2005, 10:08pm on 05/05/05 at 22:00:44, cootie wrote:
We would get ready to leave the house, and tell the dogs to "hop in" and they'd go right into their crates and go to sleep. They felt safe in their crates, and would lie in them when they were really tired. Using them also helped to house train them too. |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by medic1852 on May 5th, 2005, 10:11pm on 05/05/05 at 22:07:29, don wrote:
Other than this method and my duct tape sugestion I will now be serious. I used to have Rotts, and along with them and the other dogs that I have had. I will have to agree crate training has worked the best for me. That and keeping the dog on a schedule. My Rotts the first thing in the morning I would take them from their crates and take them outside before I went potty myself. But routine and a schedule along with a crate work best. Dogs are alot like kids they need routine and schedule. Rodger |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by cootie on May 5th, 2005, 10:44pm Yeah and KIDS need disipline too don't ya think ? Dam I can't believe how much lack of respect I have seen in kids lately......esp today in Walmart. It was gimmie this or ELSE you bitch/bastard jerk. I am shocked sumtimes at how they act......one kid was so mad he did not get a toy he was argueing with the parent for an hour down the aisles and screaming in a scarey phycotic manner. Kids need crate trained too Pam |
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Title: Re: Non-Cluster - Darned Dog Post by nani on May 5th, 2005, 10:48pm on 05/05/05 at 22:44:12, cootie wrote:
I tried that. Was workin' pretty good till the neighbors called the social workers.... :-/ |
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