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Title: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2005, 6:55pm Let me first state that this post has nothing to do with gays for me, its more of "what are your rights" as a parent.....this could easily be about teaching you kid anything (but religion we all know that is the greatest taboo ::) ::) ) What say you on this article? http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=80601 |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Redneck on Apr 28th, 2005, 7:14pm It's his right as a parent to request his son not be included in the discussions. This is a free country is it not If it had been religion or politics that someone found offensive the school would have agreed. I dont particularly agree with the guy but I disagree with our educational system most of the time. I am just damn glad my daughter is out of the local school system. Almost had to file a federal lawsuit on them, called the ACLU (that stands for usless fuckers), they refused to touch it in a small school, then turned around and filed the same suit for someone else in a bigger school system 25 miles away (the endless search for press coverage, not truth or justice) nuff said |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Charlie on Apr 28th, 2005, 7:17pm Dad sounds like my neighbor who thinks "fags" are out to reshape the world. You have to wonder about guys who spend so much time on this...... It's more dangerous shielding kids from the real world than not. Kids don't pay attention to crap they are forced to read in school anyway. Dad should handle it at home if he's so worried. Silly. Too much time is wasted on this crap. I remember when papers and tv had real news. This ain't it. Charlie |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by floridian on Apr 28th, 2005, 7:18pm I think that people that stage sit-ins at school should be arrested, whether they are protesting the bombing of innocent children, or the spread of tolerance in textbooks. When my daughter transferred from a good public school in one state to a crappy one in another, she brought home the exact same textbooks that she had used the year before. The principal tried telling us that it was impossible that a second grader could have used the same textbooks that are used in their 3rd grade class. We pulled our girl out of that school and she was in private school for the rest of her K-12 experience. And I never got arrested for disorderly conduct on school grounds. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2005, 7:26pm So Flo, Since you were wealthy enough to put your kid in private schooling we should spit on this guy? He dont want his kid taught this....aint that enough? BTW...the guy never rasied his voice to anyone. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by BlueMeanie on Apr 28th, 2005, 7:51pm Interesting point. He should have a "right" to not let his child hear what he believes is wrong. Is it o.k. to protest the word GOD in schools, but not o.k. to protest the word gay. It's what he believes.... just as what others don't believe. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by floridian on Apr 28th, 2005, 7:57pm I don't consider myself wealthy - what we did involved financial sacrifice. It was a question of priorities. We still drive a 1991 economy car - it ain't sexy and doesn't exude power like the new models, but its paid for and the mechanic keeps it running. I could go on, but why bore you? Public schools are there, they sometimes do a good job, sometimes not. Is everyone entitled to a customized public education ?? Maybe the guy didn't raise his voice, but he refused to leave. Details in the article are sparse, but I would bet he refused repeated requests to leave, and was warned that the police or security would be called. Even if the school officials didn't address his concerns the way he thought they should, he had other options - the school board, parent organizations, lawsuits. You said it wasn't about the gays ... and I agree. I see it as an issue of how he threw an impromptu sit-in when he didn't like what the system was doing. And the results were predictable. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ghost62 on Apr 28th, 2005, 7:58pm Jonny I have to agree for me its not a gay thing but if someone feels there is questionable material being taught even religion, if one has to be removed all has to . lets burn the bibles and huck finn 1984 and all the rest. but dont outlaw one then say the others are ok. lets be equal for all not just the anti christians. Now ducking ;;D |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:16pm on 04/28/05 at 19:57:35, floridian wrote:
Yes, they were sparse.....but take into consideration the months of emails with the principle and when the school board had their say they ended the meeting.....One sided meetings suck if you cant or dont get your side across. Fuck your car Flo.....you didnt like what your school was doing...why bust on this dude?...you have been there, no? |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by floridian on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:21pm on 04/28/05 at 19:51:38, BlueMeanie wrote:
The issue isn't about the right to protest - its about how the protest occurs. The father in the article wouldn't have been arrested if he wrote letters to the editor, organized a committee against the policy or filed a lawsuit. This is similar to the gun issue. Some groups want 'gun education' that affirms the value of hunting and praises the institution of gun ownership. Others want 'gun education' that characterizes guns as dangerous and immoral. I personally think that the gun issue should only be dealt with in schools from a safety issue - teach kids not to pick them up and point them at themselves or others. Parents who are gun owners can deal with it as they like away from school as can the anti-gun parents. Protecting kids from any mention of guns or gays is not honest or realistic. It is a fact that there are guns in the world, and that some families are not the classic Leave-it-to-Beaver style. Teaching kids that other kids should not be beaten to a pulp because they have two daddies is different from promoting the gay agenda, and is something that the schools should do. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by floridian on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:25pm on 04/28/05 at 20:16:18, Jonny wrote:
What months of email?? You asked us what we thought of an article, and the article doesn't mention that. If there were months and months of emails, then I think the article sucks! |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:25pm Damn, the kid was 6 for gods sake. That principle should step down in my opinion. My daughters 6 and she enjoys coloring, puzzles, math, and reading and most importantly recess. That should at best be a junior high discussion not early elementary. My daughter still has trouble spelling words that have same sound letters ie; school "skule" Fuck him, I would of left in cuffs, he would of left in an ambulance. And I ain't duckin ghost...................bring it on ;;D |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ghost62 on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:27pm as can the straight parents and gay parents and christian and non christian parents why teach gay and not god? on 04/28/05 at 20:21:48, floridian wrote:
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:28pm Why not teach math [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:28pm on 04/28/05 at 20:21:48, floridian wrote:
Theres were you are wrong....the dude emailed for months and then showed up to a meeting to hear the schools side (that he was invited to)....when he started to speak they said "Your out of luck" and ended the meeting. when he said he was not done talking they called the cops. Thats what that shit is.....Christ......imagine that you, Flo.....heaven forbid! |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:31pm They call it "selective hearing" bro ;;D |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ClusterChuck on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:38pm I agree with those that said this man, apparently, did not handle the situation properly. Not knowing all the details, that is what I read into it. If, in fact, as Jonny says, the man was not listened to, or he had already tried all his avenues, except a law suit, then maybe he was justified in what he did. Too little information. As fas the gay information, I am glad to see that SOME schools are putting out the information that gays are out there. I hope that it will allow a more tolerant treatment of gay/lesbian people. But, if a parent does not accept gay/lesbians, then they have the right to teach what they believe to their children. To refuse the schools to mention anything about gay/lesbian people, is refusing to accept that there are gays and lesbians out there. It is like refusing to let the schools even MENTION meat for food, if the parents are vegetarians. Let the children know that there are people like that out there. Should I, also, duck now? Chuck |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ghost62 on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:39pm on 04/28/05 at 20:25:39, Sean_C wrote:
sean I am and I am sure a few others agree with this statement you made and more over the issue that the school can do what ever it wants and have parents arrested for trying to get it resolved is totally absurd! They and the courts bow to the anti christians but ignore anyone with a stable belief. I am sure, only because I do have gay friends that I showed this to that the issue here is the school trying to impose there beliefs on others and think there is no consiquences. The parent arrested should not only now file suit against the district but directly against the administrators involved. also the school needs to have the material in question go before the board with the parents in attendance for a vote as to wether or not it is appropriate for the grade level this is being taught to. put them in a position of losing there seats on the board if they vote in a manner differing from what the people who voted for them deems approperiate. see what happens then |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by floridian on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:50pm on 04/28/05 at 20:31:59, Sean_C wrote:
Jonny and Sean_C: there's no fucking mention of months of email in the article. All it says is that they guy goes into the principals office, didn't get what he wanted, wouldn't leave. It ain't selective hearing on my side - maybe selective imagination on your part, or faulting me for not being clarivoyant. Maybe Jonny knows more because he lives in Boston, but he seems slow to share (And I dunno if I trust him on these issues ;) ) . Quote:
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:57pm I'm not gay bashing here, I am 100% lesbian for sure don't get me wrong. I have gay friends, family, clusterbuds etc etc etc. However, this is 1st grade where talking about here. Not junior high. My child would be confused if this was discussed anyway. Why shouldn't she be, she's six. If my child asks me about it I would gladly explain it, and I'm sure it will happen. But as for the issue, no don't teach my child about same sex parents NOW, later is just fine with me. Thanks for reading ;;D |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2005, 8:58pm on 04/28/05 at 20:50:04, floridian wrote:
Thats fucking called "learning more info as it comes through" I'll be sure to update you tomorrow if you need me :-* |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:03pm LMMFAO Flo, I love fucking with you [smiley=laugh.gif] I'm confused, is this a discussion of what to teach my six year old, or about the way the school and this individual handle the issue? |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:03pm Im going to ask this and then im hitting the sack. WHY should a six year old know about homosexuality.....someone PLEASE tell me the answer to that. Flo? |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by M.R. on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:10pm My question would be, replace the gay in this "conversation"with God. How many people would howl then. I am not for keeping either out of the school system, but you don't subject a 6 year old to either. His parents have the choice at that time. Mike |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by floridian on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:12pm on 04/28/05 at 20:57:40, Sean_C wrote:
Right, and kids don't get called 'fag' while their face is being pushed into the ground until junior high. The brutality and harrassment magically doesn't start until middle school. Quote:
God is mentioned. When I read about Martin Luther, Martin Luther King, and Ghandi, God and religion were mentioned. When I read biographies of Presidents Lincoln and Harrison, God was mentioned. Religious ideas were presented so people could learn what each group believes. But particular ideas about God were not endorsed. Particular doctrines were not promoted. Mentioning God is done all the time in a neutral way - not a problem. When we pulled my daughter out of the public school, she went to a school run by a main-line Protestant denomination. We were fine with the curriculum, which included chapel. And then two of the parents (who was a fundamentalist) started raising a ruckus that our children were being opened up to Satan via hypnosis and occult practices (when the kids were asked to close their eyes and pretend). So the administrators and the parents association told those 2 parents that if they didn't like it, they could withdraw their child and send her elsewhere. The public schools are not anti-Christian, they are secular. They try to maintain an atmosphere that respects basic human values without promoting any doctrine. The idea that people should not kill each other or steal is not a Christian invention. You can't "introduce God" into public schools the way that most evangelical zealots want without turning the schools into a battle ground between Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, Lutherans, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Presbyterians and all the other groups with conflicting doctrines. If you did open things up, then one denomination would win in each school, and we would have socialized religion, government promoting religion. Sounds like a great idea. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:14pm They shouldn't its not relavent at that age. There's nothing on the MCAS about that subject either. Nite bro :-* Sean......................... |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:19pm on 04/28/05 at 21:12:46, floridian wrote:
Well I guess thats better than being called a cocksucker ;;D |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ghost62 on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:20pm any religion and no religion is ok to teach in school but not christianity, dont say god because you will be expelled but you can say allah, and pentagrams are ok but not a cross |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:29pm on 04/28/05 at 21:12:46, floridian wrote:
Ok, im back in my cave for a smoke before I crash. You didnt answer the question, Flo! Why does a six year old NEED to know about homosexuality? Its an easy question.....can you answer WHY a six year old NEEDS to know this? Nite folks :-* |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by BarbaraD on Apr 28th, 2005, 9:54pm I, personally, think that reading, writing and math should be TAUGHT in schools. Leave the sex education out behind the bleachers where it belongs. Ok, I'm OLD! But back in my day we LEARNED stuff in schools. We learned about gays, religion and family values also, but NOT in school. I was around when Ms. O'Hare got prayer taken out of schools (or thought she did - it stayed in my school). But we didn't have Sex Ed (we had health and homemaking). And you know the funny thing. We actually learned to read and write -- more than a lot of kids are doing these days. When we got out of high school we were ready for the "real world". I know some of you may find this hard to believe, but I was considered a "trouble-maker" back in high school. I didn't take anything off teachers if I thought they were wrong and my parents backed me up. At home we were TAUGHT to take up for ourselves if we thought we were right. And admit we're wrong if someone could prove it. These values I've been thankful for all my adult life. When my son was in school, I was the Mom at all the school board meetings (and yes, I've broken up a few of them), but my son learned or some teachers were questioned really hard. Today I have trouble seeing what good public schools are doing our kids (except for the ones who still have a family that has family values at home). They're graduating kids who can't read or write and have no common sense at all. We're so busy being politically correct and seeing that they all have condoms (what's wrong with abstinance?) that we're forgetting to teach them the basics. I can't see any reason a 6 year old should be exposed to this crap or a high school student either for that matter. Schools are NOT the place to discuss this. Off my soap box..... Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by floridian on Apr 28th, 2005, 10:02pm on 04/28/05 at 21:29:19, Jonny wrote:
If Mr. Parker in Boston won't let his kid play at the home of a friend who has a gay parent, that's his perogative. But during the school day, his kid will have to co-exist with those kids in the public school. Its that simple. Should the public schools have a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy on the orientation of kids parents?? Six year olds don't need to know the intricate details of sexuality (and it wasn't being taught in the book). Most have already have heard the words 'fag' "queer" and "homo" and many grade school kids use those words. They may not understand what it means, but they do know enough to use it as an insult. Although they will not be sexually developed untill around junior high, they are not too young to learn to hate gays. Acknowledging the fact that there are kids who only have a mother, or who have a gay parent is something that many grade school kids encounter. Good Night, Jonny. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ClusterChuck on Apr 28th, 2005, 11:35pm I side with Floridian here. I think the children (yes even first graders) should be told that there are gay couples. Don't go into much detail, if any, but let them know they are around. Just the same as they are told about apples and oranges, but not told much detail about them. Apples and oranges are in this world. So are gay couples. I agree with Barb, too. More emphasis needs to be put back on reading, 'riting, and 'rithmatic, too! But the parents need to be fully involved with every step of their child's education. Just because the child is in the school's care, it DOES NOT relieve the parent of anything!!! They are still responsible for that child! The first grade (now-a-days, Kindergarten) is the year or years, if you put the two of them in the same category, are the years when the child is introduced to EVERYTHING. All the years following, are just expanding on what was intruduced in those first years. Chuck |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Karla on Apr 28th, 2005, 11:42pm I did the same thing for my childrens school. They had no problems assigning my kids other subjects when they discussed the gay subjects. I think the parents should have a choice about what agenda their children are taught. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by BobG on Apr 29th, 2005, 1:26pm I think David Parker needs a good bitch-slap. And while we're on the subject of God or not to God....... Why is it that the Supreme Court judges (and all the other court judges) can say say "God and religion have no place in schools or any government place." Then they take Sunday's off. And Christmas. And Thanksgiving. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Miklos on Apr 29th, 2005, 2:38pm Doesn't sound like anyone has read the book in question. I have, and it is not mortally offensive. I think it would probably be best read at home with parents, but I don't think many parents have the guts to explain even superficially any of the implied issues. We did discuss this at home, and neither of the kids turned out homosexual or homophobic. Never know when the topic will come up either. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 29th, 2005, 2:48pm on 04/29/05 at 14:38:25, Miklos wrote:
That may be so, but it doesnt give the school the right to do it for the parents. To me it comes right down to Age appropriateness! I guess some of us will have to agree to disagree. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by SFChris on Apr 29th, 2005, 3:56pm Let me turn the tables here - is it okay for a six year old to know that there are families that have a mother and a father? Is it okay for a six year old to know that there are families that have a mother but no father? Then why can't that six year old know that sometimes there are two fathers or two mothers? Why bring "sex into it? Six year olds aren't taught that mom and dad are having sex - they are taught that these kind of families exist. In Massachusetts gay marriage is legal - if it isn't okay to acknowledge this at any age, then ANY type of family shouldn't be acknowledged... |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by PittsburghJoe on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:03pm I know, how horrible is it for a 6 year old to know that gay people exist? When my 6 year old nephew asked his parents why Uncle Joe and Uncle Dave live together, the only proper response would have been to scream, cover the kid's ears, and start quoting Bible scripture. Instead, they told him that Uncle Joe and Uncle Dave love each other, just like Mommy and Daddy love each other. No graphic descriptions of oral or anal sex, no discussion of which brands of comdoms or lube to use, no speculation about who does what to whom. Just a simple statement of love. God, I hate to think of how twisted and fucked up that kid is gonna be when he grows up. Denial does not create reality, folks. You can have all the "gay friends" you want, but apparently you still can't wrap your minds around the fact that couplehood is couplehood, regardless of the configuration. That being said, would you support a father pulling a kid from a History class because he believes the Holocaust didn't really happen? Or maybe a kid should be pulled from a science class because the teacher utters that filthy "evolution" word? Maybe children shouldn't be exposed to they nursery rhyme "The Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe" beacause there's no mention of a husband. Who knows who fathered all those children? This guy can get his knickers in a twist over what basically boils down to three words: Gay People Exist. You can't avoid it these days. We're on TV shows, movies, even (gasp) the News! This guy can do what he wants with his kids... that's his prerogative as a man who placed his penis into a vagina, thus becoming a father. His kids are his property. But don't expect me to jump for joy over the fact that one bigot is teaching the next generation how to be as narrow minded as he is. Joe |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by broomhilda on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:04pm on 04/29/05 at 15:56:58, SFChris wrote:
I wholeheartedly agree with Chris, as we progress and so does society(we hope) we need to look at our values and our definitions one of which is family. We have single mom, dads, blended families, grandparent families, foster children, the whole notion of family has and is changing. Bottom line is the early teachings and beginnings of tolerance , difference , acceptance and respect. Back to my corner :) edit to add excellent post Joe! |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:07pm on 04/29/05 at 15:56:58, SFChris wrote:
No dude, they are not taught that mom and dad families exsists...why would they be? I said in my first post that my beef was the school not giving a shit about what the father wanted for his kid....thats all. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by notseinfeld on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:23pm Seems to me sending kids to public school is akin to child abuse these days. He moves through a metal detector; can't have any red markings on his paper because it may 'hurt his feelings', and will be indoctrinated into the lovely land of socialism so pervasive in our society. I'm sure everyone here knows that nowhere in the Constitution is the 'RIGHT' to an education delineated. The reason for this is because there is none. When the government removes choice, or competition from the marketplace especially in education, what do we expect will happen? Is it any wonder that home schooled children are FAR AND AWAY the best students in the entire nation? Furthermore, why are people who have decided not to have children penalized for the decisions of those who have? Isn't part of being a parent being responsible for your children personally? Their healthcare, baseball games and schooling? How dare you encourage a system that plunders the fruits of other people's labor to subsidize your decisions. Public schooling like everything else the government touches is anathema to responsible living, parenting. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by nani on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:23pm There's a kid at mooshie's school (2nd grader) with a rather unique situation. His dad lives with and has a child with a lesbian couple. I'm glad mooshie was exposed to the fact that there are MANY types of families before she knew about that. It's a non issue to her. Our family is different, too. She's being raised by her grandparents. That's the message these types of cirriculum try to convey. Different isn't BAD. It's just different. Imagine how great our society could be if parent's stopped interfering with that message.... great post, Joe. :) |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:31pm on 04/29/05 at 16:23:54, nani wrote:
Oh great....lets take away the parents rights for a better society ::) This guy may be wrong or he may be right (in his mind), but thats his kid...who the hell is anyone to tell him what is good for his kid...the school? |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by nani on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:34pm No...you're right about that. He should be able to request that his child not participate in the lesson that the book is included in. I think the book should be available to other students. I was off in one of my idealistic, hippie daydreams. You know...tolerance, unity, peace....all that crap. :) |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ghost62 on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:41pm making avail and making it mandatory are 2 diff issues ... I really doubt the child was given a choice. He was issued the book by the teacher, once again the school needs to have the material in question go before the board with the parents in attendance for a vote as to wether or not it is appropriate for the grade level this is being taught to. put them in a position of losing there seats on the board if they vote in a manner differing from what the people who voted for them deems approperiate. see what happens then |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Candycane on Apr 29th, 2005, 4:47pm on 04/29/05 at 16:34:43, nani wrote:
Wasn't it sex,drugs and rockand roll?Nani, ;) |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ckelly181 on Apr 29th, 2005, 5:07pm on 04/28/05 at 21:20:20, ghost62 wrote:
Uh, wrong. Basic tenets of several religions are talked about - including Christianity. Public schools don't teach doctrine, they teach history. Christianity has a history; it's taught. Quote:
That's a pretty ignorant statement. In a public school, students can pretty much say whatever they want in regards to what they believe. I've had students write papers on "My Hero" - and I always get some that state: My hero is Jesus. I don't march them down to the office and pull the suspension pole. I doubt that many kids would be expelled for expressing their beliefs - the courts would be all over the school. Students all over the country hold prayer meetings in schools. School choirs still perform sacred music (in most schools). People do have different beliefs, but there's a difference between a kid saying "I am a Wiccan" and "the devil is going to kill you." The former will not get you suspended. Chris - a public school teacher |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Jonny on Apr 29th, 2005, 5:14pm on 04/29/05 at 17:07:12, ckelly181 wrote:
Perfect!.....Do you teach six year olds about different families? If you dont teach that age, do they teach that in your district? Thanks for the input. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by vietvet2tours on Apr 29th, 2005, 5:14pm WTF at Skyview High school two of our respected teachers got caught doin it dog style in the girls locker room. Now that is sex ed. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ivanov on Apr 29th, 2005, 5:15pm Having worked in childrens illustration in the past I believe I know what book is in question. The book is done in good taste and simple relates to the child that alternate loving families do exist. No sex is mentioned in the book or judgements. That said, after reading some of these post, I would rather have my child raised by a gay couple that taught love and compassion then a fundamentalist christian couple that taught bigotry and hate. Dan |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ghost62 on Apr 29th, 2005, 5:16pm That's a pretty ignorant statement. In a public school, students can pretty much say whatever they want in regards to what they believe. I've had students write papers on "My Hero" - and I always get some that state: My hero is Jesus. I don't march them down to the office and pull the suspension pole. "I doubt that many kids would be expelled for expressing their beliefs - the courts would be all over the school. Students all over the country hold prayer meetings in schools. School choirs still perform sacred music (in most schools). People do have different beliefs, but there's a difference between a kid saying "I am a Wiccan" and "the devil is going to kill you." The former will not get you suspended. Chris - a public school teacher " you dont but alot of school teachers and administrators do |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by nani on Apr 29th, 2005, 6:40pm on 04/29/05 at 16:47:22, Candycane wrote:
Yep...it was...probably why we never quite changed the world the way we'd hoped. :-/ |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ClusterChuck on Apr 29th, 2005, 7:07pm on 04/29/05 at 16:03:31, PittsburghJoe wrote:
Maybe you didn't tell you nephew, but how about telling me? I am over 6 years old (well PHYSICALLY, anyhow). I want to know ALL the details ... Inquiring minds want to know ... Chuck BTW: Awesome post, Joe! |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Miklos on Apr 29th, 2005, 8:38pm I rarely make follow-up posts to topics, but this topic is important enough to do so. I was the victim of an attempted sexual assault by an evangelical pastor. I was a member of the choir, and after practice he asked to speak with me in his office. Ultimately, he was groping my crotch while explaining how he could help me reduce my desire to be seduced by godless female flesh merchants. Even at 16 I knew that groping by an adult male was probably not a good thing. I got the heck out of there as quickly as I could and never went back. In 1960 there were no options for me to report the episode. That incident has colored my perceptions ever since. No one (including my parents) would believe such an incident had occurred with a respected preacher in Southern Maryland. Consequently, my wife and I made sure that our children should tell us about any inappropriate approaches by any adult. We started early with the typical parental “Don’t take candy from strangers” routine and added the sexual component as they matured. We made sure that they knew that sexual predators were out there In 1960 there was no responsible sex education in the Maryland school system so I am quite comfortable with the school board in question. The book in question is so innocuous about sex that I have no problem with its content even for youngsters. People are different. So be it. I personally believe that a gradual and more comprehensive information about sex is helpful to young people. Start early and add information as appropriate. Schools should follow the same recipe. Abstinence only is a foolish approach. If you want to hear an hilarious account of how I provided information about sex to my male peers in the sixth grade whose parents had not explained sex, please send me an PM. Boy, was I dumb. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Sean_C on Apr 30th, 2005, 12:18am I knew the gaydar was gonna go off and Joe was gonna put in his two cents which is fine. However I didn't see anything spectacular with his post. He stated that his nephews "parents" did the explaining. Thats what I'm saying too. He stated that we can all have our "gay friends" but what Joe, thats not enough to be accepted in the GAY community? I have gay friends, so what? I have a gay nephew and a lesbian cousin, so what? I've lived with it in my family my whole life and whats the big deal about being fucking gay Joe, there's nothing worse than a pro gay "I'm OUT" gay. Get over it, welcome to the fucking world. Whats your point anyway, I have to have the teacher explain homosexual parenting roles to my child at age six? What gives you as a homosexual the right to even suggest that a teacher has the right to do this? BECAUSE YOUR GAY? I do not see what this is going to do to benefit my daughter at this age. Why would she even care for that matter, parenting relationships are not an issue for her, never mind the whole gay marriage issues, she has NO hate, so why bother with this type of social education at this age. There's a time and a place for everything, first grade is not the place nor the time. She has the benefit of coming from a large OPEN MINDED family. There's Jews, Italians, Polish, Irish, Middleastern, African people in this family, some rich some poor, some homosexual some not, some married some not, some religious some not. Who cares about these issues at age six? This issue is a parenting issue, leave your pro gay bullshit at your house with your kids and out of the elementary school system. Sean...................... And I'm not bashing gays, I'm pissed at Joe for having such a self centered mind. I wouldn't think of teaching his kids anything he wouldn't think was APPROPRIATE for them at ANY age. Its called RESPECT where I come from. Then again thats just me, Mr. "I stick my penis in the vagina fucking dad". Sorry guys :( |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by hdido on Apr 30th, 2005, 12:37am I went to Brooklyn Technical (Brooklyn Tech) High School in the '60s (those from NYC know about that school, only took "the cream of the cream"). I did get an excellent education overall, but my sex education consisted of a 10 minute session that my gym class had with our heath ed. teacher. It literally consited of the following: "You guys know (it is an engineering school and in the 60's only males were admitted-girls weren't supposed to become engineers), uh, that sometimes, uh, you know, uh, you get certain thougts about girls and, uh, you know you sometimes get a physical reaction. When that happens, you should go and do some exercise-run around the block, play basketball, something like that and then take a cold shower." That was it-we really learned about sex by bringing porno books into school and each day another guy took turns reading parts of them aloud to others at our table in the lunch room (we also learned, from each other and older guys that you could tell if a girl had just had sex because she would walk with her legs spread apart!). I just wanted to give an example to those of the younger generation how things used to be ::)! |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ckelly181 on Apr 30th, 2005, 4:43pm on 04/29/05 at 17:14:30, Jonny wrote:
To be honest, it's never come up in the elementary schools in my district, that I'm aware of. I don't think there's any discussion about alternative lifestyles in our elementary schools, nor do I think it's appropriate to go more indepth than a simple statement that not all families look the same (which is really important because over 50% of the students in any given class come from a single head of household). I know we don't have books in the libraries with gay couples. (Of course, this is central Minnesota.) I agree with Joe - if a student brought it up, I'd just make a simple statement about living in a loving family, and then move on. You do that a lot with little kids. It's better than ignoring or overreacting, which makes it a big deal. The high school curriculum does take a look at social issues (including alternative lifestyles) - even Channel One covers that. Chris |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by ckelly181 on Apr 30th, 2005, 4:48pm on 04/29/05 at 17:16:59, ghost62 wrote:
How do you know? Based on what information? Did you read one story about one incident and then base your entire opinion of teachers on that? I've been in education for 20 years and I know a lot of teachers and a lot of admins. I've never, ever heard of a kid being expelled for stating his/her Christian beliefs. I do know one wingnut administrator who pulled a Christian poster off of a kid's locker. The parents were on his case so fast he didn't know what hit him. The poster was back pretty fast. Chris |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Karla on Apr 30th, 2005, 4:59pm All I got to say is My kids are in one very understanding school. In Biology when evolution was being taught I could have pulled my kids from that. I was given that option. However, I decided to teach them creationism at home to compliment thier education so they could make up their own mind. And argue both sides of the fence. I was glad we had that choices we did. The teacher was kind enough to show me his curriculum. That helped me in many ways. |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by TxBasslady on Apr 30th, 2005, 5:02pm Definitely this is a parenting issue...IMHO. I'm glad I have no 6 year old's or any other kids in school today. I tend to agree with Sean....when the time is right for his daughter...then surely he and Barbara can and will tend to the issue. I know Sean well enough to know that it is definitely his preference as to when where and how his daughter learns of these issues. At the present time, there is no issue, because at age 6...like Sean says, recess is the highlight of the day. Being gay...is not an issue. There is no need to defend your preferences. That is not what this post was about. I have lots of friends and yes, even family members who are gay. Again...not an issue. This is a situation that was brought forth to the media..about a father who contested some of the teachings in the public schools. For those of you with school age children....when was the last time you checked....really checked...on what your children are reading in school? This article might spark some of you to jump in and see just exactly what is being taught, and tolerated. I would suggest that you not only look at the books brought home by your children, but also go to the school and see what "other" books are read and discussed in the classrooms. It's those "other" books that you need to worry about. As a parent, you have the right to know...and the right to be shown the material used in any classroom. Jean |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by Charlie on May 1st, 2005, 4:03am Censorship is an outrage. Especially of the printed word. The world is better with some "uncomfortable" literature than not. Charlie |
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Title: Re: What say you.... Post by hdido on May 1st, 2005, 8:48am Those who wish to censor books, etc. in our schoolsystems and elsewhere (and they do tend to be right-wing extremist Christian Republicans) would do well to start with the bible-full of sex, violence, incest, sodomy, intolerance, revenge, destruction-you name it, it is in there). Clean up your house first-and if I want my house cleaned by you, I'll hire you-otherwise, butt out. [smiley=moonwiggle.gif] [smiley=hurl.gif] |
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